MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
MLA Summers tells Tanzania Falklands don’t want to be colonized by Argentina
A Falkland Islands lawmaker was scheduled to meet on Tuesday with Tanzania top officials to explain the Islands support for post-colonial status and the coming referendum next year to determine its political future, faced with the insistent sovereignty claims from Argentina. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesLucky Pirates!, Maybe get the support of Tanzania!
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is it possible to be so cheeky? “it would be wise for it and other countries that are part of the process to look at the wishes of the people of the area rather than interests of the colonial powers”. Although you may not believe, reader says an Englishman!. Colonial powers: read Argentina. That guy Summers, was not born there in the North Sea (Europe)? remember: Central América, North América, South Africa, Africa, India, Malvinas, etc. etc. etc. I do not think these men are so stupid Tanzania, Englishmen!
1 José Malvinero
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mike was born in Stanley, Falkland Islands. So no, he was not born 'in the North Sea', whatever that means.
And yes, Argentina would like to colonise the Falklands. You won't get the chance though.
2 Monty69;
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, at least one (and the Cheek) were born here in Argentina.
Argentina does not want to colonize Malvinas usurp the effect (like Britain), but recover the usurped by that country. For us it is part of a province, not a colony, as it were: I'm in London and I have my “viceroy” in Mumbai ....
“the post-colonial position under Britain”
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0haha, good one!
Jose, the Falklands have never belonged to Argentina. They used to belong to the confederation of Buenos Aires, but that is not the same thing. The confederation of Buenos Aires existed before your ancestors colonised the resot of what we now call Argentina. So how can you “recover” something that was never yours?
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing was usurped. The Falklands have been British since 1765.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0247 years.
:-)
Has anyone else noticed that, as soon as CFK changes her language, so do the Malvinista posters on these boards? CFK only started saying “usurped” as a regular word only recently and now the posters start using it too. She stopped mentioning the lie about people being ejected from the islands and so the Malvinistas have been mentioning it less as well, probably because they have zero evidence for this.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Intentionally or otherwise, these people have become little typing parrots for their leader, it's kind of interesting to watch brainwashing on that scale fully at play.
@5 - travellingscotsman
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 06:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good post. Just one correction. The Falklands have NEVER belonged to any South American country.
Only Britain and Spain. Spain dropped its Sovereignty claim 20 years before recognising Argentina as an independent country. But neither the conferderate of colonies, or the united provinces, or whatever other name they were all using at the time, ever had a valid claim on the islands.
@1&3 José M,
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who cares what you think or want?
This is OUR land NOT yours, so mind your own business.
“They used to belong to the confederation of Buenos Aires, ”
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0erm.. no they didnt.
“
Only Britain and Spain. Spain dropped its Sovereignty claim 20 years before recognising Argentina as an independent country. But neither the conferderate of colonies, or the united provinces, or whatever other name they were all using at the time, ever had a valid claim on the islands”
Correct.
-----------
Looks like the CFK supporters REALLY do not like the FI government pointing out that what Argentina is attempting is colonisation... clearly “they dont like it up 'em!” ¬_¬
you guys are just pure envy,
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0that the falklands are under the jack,
and YOU want to be british , under jack,
well ya cant,
ya got crissy. yuk yuk..
“”“Has anyone else noticed that, as soon as CFK changes her language, so do the Malvinista posters on these boards?”“”
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0its just one more piece of evidence that shows some of these Argentine-Government “supporters” are just paid lackeys.
(Please note my distinction between Argentine Government and Argentinians.... I wont blame the Argentine people for the gross aggressiveness and colonisation attempts of their dictator's never-ending search for more personal wealth & power)
they do as they are told.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0“recover the usurped by that country.”
I was not aware that Spain and Great Britain who both had not dropped their sovereignty claims during the 1820s/1830s had ceded sovereignty to the Buenos Aires Government (No Argentina till 1856)?
Therefore the Buenos Aires Government usurped Spain and Great Britain, by Vernet's claim in 1829 (the first claim by BAG) and the illegal BAG garrison in 1832 (that killed each other).
You cannot have been usurped by Great Britain in 1833 as Britain previously had a claim they had not dropped.
However you did usurp the native population of Southern Argentina, so you had better hand the land back, and go back to Spain hadn't you?
3 José Malvinero
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't care how you view the islands; if you want to pretend they are part of a province to make yourselves feel better, that is no concern of mine. If you want the Falklands, the only way you will get them is to colonise them and us by force. We don't want you and we would never accept you. Is that what you want?
@3 Usual lies. 1820 - United Provinces attempts to usurp British sovereignty through claims of American pirate. 1828 - United Provinces makes second attempt to usurp British sovereignty by appointing a businessman as governor after he had been given permission for a commercial venture by Britain. 1831 - UP attempt fails as Vernet engages in piracy and his “settlement” removed by United States. 1832 - United Provinces makes third attempt to usurp British sovereignty by setting up penal colony. 1833 - Attempt fails as Britain re-establishes rule. “Part of a province” - crap!
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4 It is a good one. Not being British, you wouldn't understand!
@5 There has never been a confederation of Buenos Aires. Amongst other things, it would be a contradiction in terms. You can “confederate” a single entity. Moreover, section 35 of the argentine constitution makes no mention of such a body. Only “United Provinces of the River Plate”; “Argentine Republic”; “Argentine Confederation” are recognised.
Well done MLA Summers. I think it is a good thing that we are on the diplomatic offensive and spreading our message.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are two sides to every argument, and now the world can start listening to the more important and truthful side of the argument.
@3 - What Province would that be then? Tierra del Fuego! Which wasn't even part of argentina until the 1900 - 1910. When the natives were wiped out and the land claimed by chile and argentina. Funny how you claim the falklands on the basis they are part of one of your province when that province did not exist till 70 years after the british reasserted our sovereingty on the islands in 1833 after the United Provinces illegally placed a garrison on the islands. Hell you can not even claim the islands are part of your continental shelf and therefore your islands, simply because in 1833 Argentina did not have any territory on the southern part of the continential shelf that your government is now using as an arguement for sovereingty. The islanders were on that southern part of your continental shelve before argentina had any territory there, therefore using the continental shelf argument gives the falklanders a much stronger historical continental shelf claim to patagonia then what argentina has to this current day.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hell Veitnam, Thailand, Indonesia and the Philipines etc. Are all on the same contentinental shelve as China along with south Japan. Does that make those nations part of China? No it doesn't! So the continental shelve aregument where you claim the Falklands apart of Tierra del Fuego province purely because they are on the same continential shelve is a load of crap and you hypocritic idiots know its as well. You just thing the rest of the world is dumb enough to actually believe you if you keep repeating it over and over again. When truth is, the rest of the world are laugh at your stupidity.
@9 Thank you for whetting my appetite for both the review of immigration policy and the understanding of who “we” (as in “our”) are that only seeing the electoral register/voting list for the Referendum can provide.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well the Falklanders can try, but I suspect it would be easier to buy the votes needed rather than to persuade the UN comity made up of...
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Antigua & Barbuda
Bolivia
Chile
China
Congo
Côte D'Ivoire
Cuba
Dominica
Ecuador
Ethiopia
Fiji
Grenada
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Mali
Nicaragua
Papua New Guinea
Russian Federation
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Sierra Leone
Syrian Arab Republic
Timor-Leste
Tunisia
United Republic of Tanzania
Venezuela
...to take a moral stand for what is right and proper. The only major scumbag regime missing on the list is Little Kim!
Just a side note, the FI was never abandoned entirely. Sealing and whaling activities went on even though there was no permanent residents. This is what brought Vernet to the islands and what caused the confrontation with the USN.
Well the c24 committee has no power in anycase, so it doesnt really need persuading either way.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The committee is pretty much out-of-date and only keeps itself going so that it can keep itself going: it keeps people in a “job”.
It also seems to ahve forgotten what it was established to do..but then that is true of the entire UN anyway.
The next change “in soveriegnity” for the Falklands will be independence anyway, at which point Argentina are completely and utterly fubar'd.
I suspect that is part of the Argentine Governments current panic over the oil revenue: that revenue will give the Falklands people the money to GO independent, a soveriegn nation in their own right.
And CFK and her Gov' are kakking their pants.
19 Doveoverdover
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure the Registrar General would provide you with a copy of the electoral roll if you asked for one.
3 José Malvinero (#)
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oct 03rd, 2012 - 01:35 am
“For us it is part of a province, not a colony, as it were...”
Presumably the “Provincia de Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sur”, which was declared the “Gobernación de la Tierra del Fuego” in 1884 which became the “Gobernación Marítima de Tierra del Fuego y Provincia de Patagonia” in 1943 then the Territorio Nacional de la Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sur“ in 1957 and finally the ”Provincia de Tierra del Fuego, Antártida e Islas del Atlántico Sur“ in 1990.
So the institution which ruled ”our Malvinas“ was created 51 years AFTER the ”usurpation“ of the Islands, and the Province you are talking about was created 157 years after that ”usurpation”!!!!!
Don't you think you are being a little incoherent?????
hahahah smacking of drowned,your arguments are falling!!! right?
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas Argentinas.!!
“”“”hahahah smacking of drowned,your arguments are falling!!! right?
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas Argentinas.!“””
Can anybody translate this?
We hear and read a lot about implanted people. Falkland Islanders of course have never been implanted because each and everyone that is living here right now are born on the Islands.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However what I want to mention is the fact that all those who are apposing the wishes of the Islands People in these comments are no doubt Implanted by CFK because as some have already said. Whatever CFK says usually gets a beating on the comments box.
Thankfully those who choose to follow her are not going to make a differance because reading the comments it seems there are at least four or five supporters for everyone of those implanted ones.
No doubt this site will be making comments for years to come because while that is happening we are deffinatly still British.
Instaed of bitching about our Country belonging to you why don't you Argies try making your own Country a better safer place to live by removing that excuse for a leader you have there.
Maybe a Falkland Islander should run for Argentine president because as you keep saying we are born on Argentine claimed territory so by that token we should be able to put a government in to Argentina. Then we would see some real changes.
So Senior Gusts, your technique of debating is to tell the person who has provided you with a point backed with evidence and facts that he is wrong, without providing any points, evidence, facts or coherence. You have to love Argentines and their incompetence.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahahahah,maybe Islanders surely born of a cabbage!!!
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22 From the “about 3000” residents 1571 had a vote in last year's referendum. Recognising that some of “us” are children, will the franchise be extended to all adult residents, as a one off, to help give a leg up to democratic legitimacy? I look forward to learning the definitive answer and seeing how many of “us” actually vote on the question, whatever it is.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26 Some of what you're tippling please.
@TTT, BK and all the trolls
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you please tell me how all the Spaniards (and all the other nationalities that followed) ended up in Argentina in the first place?
how it feels to live in a land that you know will not be yours for long time?unless you want to stay and be Argentine!!
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They know no such thing, would you like to hazard a guess as to when you envisage Argentina seizing the Islands, be specific when? what year? Certainly not this millenium, when? the next millenium? or the one after that?
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unconsciously you to know the truth wath up like Dick Sawle unconsciously saying that the Falklands are Argentine at Mexican CNN://www.topix.com/forum/world/falkland-islands/TMEBTGMR33NUH281S
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@33
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yawn, You will never get them there is nothing you can do. Your country is so weak in every field.
Oh, and that's the proof is it, come on, when you going to get the Islands, take an educated guess, give you + or - 30 years, after all it has been that long since your last expedition to the Islands. You seem to be so sure you will gain them, so when?
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”The sailor John Strong in 1690 sailed through the Strait of San Carlos, who appointed Falkland (only to close), as so many other sailors who visited the islands from the time of discovery NO BY ENGLAND without act of possession (which on the other hand would not be accepted by Spain). Then French sailors Saint-Malo they named Maluines after Malvinas by Spain. In 1764 he founded Bouganville Port Louis (after the Spanish Soledad) returning the islands to Spain in 1766 recognizing its sovereignty. In 1765 John Byron in Trinidad founded Port Egmont and John Mcbride (all pirates are called John??) In 1766 made a fort, which discovered by the Spanish in 1769 (and settled permanently in Puerto Soledad), who reigned at across the entire archipelago, dispatched from BUENOS AIRES in 1770 to Madariaga who expelled the British from the island of Trinidad. The English were never settled beyond that single island.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To avoid a war, Spain allowed resettlement Egmont English since 1771 “which can not and should in no way affect the question of the prior right of sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands” in the declaration of that year. In 1774 he left England voluntarily Trinidad (Saunders).
AFTER 59 YEARS! taking advantage of the weakness of the new nation Argentina (independence recognized by England in 1823) back in 1833 and another to take over the entire archipelago. There was an Argentine governor already the fifth, flew the blue and white where never before been the english flag with Argentine settlers with absolute awareness of belonging to the rest of the Argentine continental territory.
Summarizing NEVER Malvinas Islands were British, Spanish YES and Argentinas YES. Argentina claimed from the same 1833 his return.”
What happened on January 3, 1833 was a blatant act of piracy.
Hey guys relax,time to time, everything comes!!! greetings
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Who cares? you never had them, you do not have them now and you are never going to get them.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Laugh!
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tis better to laugh than cry.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I always laugh reading PeoRG_American posts
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0from someone who is south American
Ok so which Islander would make the best next Presidant of Argie Land.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Any thoughts.
Always amazes me how a nations most nationalistic supporters are the very same people who have got the hell out of it and settled elsewhere! Not just Argentinian but others too. I always have the opinion if life was so good where they originated from? why in the F....! did they leave?
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having said that, the very worst of them are the ones who then go on to slag and otherwise debase the country that takes them in as their own.
(43) reality check
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
“Always amazes me how a nations most nationalistic supporters are the very same people who have got the hell out of it and settled elsewhere!
Having said that, the very worst of them are the ones who then go on to slag and otherwise debase the country that takes them in as their own.”
I say:
You mean like the six or seven British Argentineans and Uruguayan Argentineans that post in here and slag and otherwise debase the country that took them in as their own?
@25 Of course I can translate, although I may not use the exact words “gustbury” was thinking of. Broadly speaking, it translates as “I am a total prat with no arguments. But I have to say something because I get paid by the comment”.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@36 So THAT's the argie story. Shall I pick the holes in it? ”(which on the other hand would not be accepted by Spain)“ Irrelevant. Spain didn't even know of the Islands. They hadn't got that far south. Britain claimed the Islands in 1765. BEFORE the Spanish got anywhere near. In 1766, the French SOLD their settlement to the Spanish. Try to understand that. No question of ”returning the islands to Spain in 1766 recognizing its sovereignty.”, they SOLD the SETTLEMENT. Nothing else. How do you equate Trinidad with the Falkland Islands? Maps of the era show ONE French/Spanish settlement and at least half-a-dozen British ones. Indicating that the British built settlements in the 74 years between 1690 and the arrival of the French. It's true that Spain wanted to avoid a war. Because it knew it would be beaten. But you forgot to note that the 1770 Spanish force was sent by the Spanish governor of the Spanish settlement. And the Spanish king repudiated his actions. Besides returning all British goods and chattels and paying compensation. British sovereignty not disturbed. Even when Britain evacuated its settlements in 1776, it did not relinquish sovereignty. So Britain had the Islands and Spain had a settlement. There has NEVER been a legal principle by which a rebelling colony can claim everything that might have belonged to the legal state against which they were rebelling. Not in the last two thousand years! 1831 the U.S. removes pirate settlement. 1833 Britain returns. 1850 Arana-Southern Treaty ending ALL disagreements. 1866 Speech of argie Vice President to his Congress noted ONLY ONE outstanding dispute between argieland and Britain. Compensation to be paid to English citizens by argieland! So many holes!
Who? as far as I am aware from their posts most of them are working there and do not have citizenship and I have not read them slagging off their home countries, on the contrary.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MLA Summers was born in the Falklands, so were both his parents, so were all 4 of his grand-parents, and so were 7 out of 8 of his great grand parents. Many Islanders can demonstrate similar heritage. Powerful stuff.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many of the RG posters on here can demonstrate similar heritage ??
46 reality check
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you miss all the posts from, for ex., Mr Tim ?
Or Mr. Bigron?
Or Mr.redpoll?
+ four or five others who's nicksI dont remember at the moment.
All of them identify themselves (correctly) as British-Something and slag and debase the country that took them in as their own.
@46 Quite. As national characteristics, Italians lie and Spaniards lie. Continuously. When was the last time anyone heard an Italian or a Spaniard say “I'm sorry. You're right and I'm wrong”? And so argies lie as well. By contrast, Britons did a great deal to build argieland. They built the railways and the economy. What did the argies do? They let both go to ruin. Heard any argies thanking Britain for all it did for them? What do they do instead? They try to STEAL the only bits of British territory in the South Atlantic and Antarctica and lie about it. Another latino characteristic. Cheats, liars and thieves. But they've never won up until now and they won't win in the future.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ChisR I think, lives in Uruguay, all I have heard him do is sing its praise, seems to love the country.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0EngineerAbroad? Argentina, make comparisons, yes, never heard him slag Argentina.
Some do some do not. My point is, there is a lot of hypocrisy here.
(50) reality check
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who mentioned Turnip ChrisR?
Who mentioned Turnip EngineerAbroad?
I know perfectly what those Turnips are!
I am speaking of the Old British immigrants here.
I'm speaking about 4'th, 5'th, 6'th, even 7'th generation British Argentineans here.
Totally un-integrated and slagging the Argentinean people at every given opportunity.
Duly cheered and applauded by the British-British turnips in here, of course........
As a true example of “True British Superiority”.
Hypocrisy all right, mate!
I bow to your extensive expertise on the Brassica Rapa and can no longer comptete with your suprior knowledge on the subject.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and by the way, some of those 4th, 5th 6th and even 7th generation Brassica Rapas fought well in 82.
45 Conqueror
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This “Conqueror” is ineffable. “Spain did not even know of the islands,” he says.
The islands were sighted by Amerigo Vespucci in 1501-1502, and discovered the April 7, 1502. Were sighted by Ferdinand Magellan in 1520, Portuguese but the service of Spain. In 1536 Francisco de Camargo sighted the islands and called them “the Ducks” maps published in Spanish in 1522, 1529, 1536 and 1541.
In 1600, on January 24, the Dutchman Sebald de Werth, the sights and called Sebaldes or Sebald.
And the English?. They talk about John (other John!) Davis that “discovered” in 1592, but neither the British themselves recognize it by describing the huge inaccuracies and because very honest, just published it in 1622!! He says: “Spain had not come this far south”!!!!!!!!!!! Even sounds the Strait of Magellan.
The French did not sell the settlement, but the Spanish Crown Bouganville compensated for their expenses in Puerto Soledad after France recognized Spanish sovereignty. Besides buying and if there had been-is a way to obtain lawful sovereignty. Remember “Dr” conqueror Alaska.
Nobody compares Trinidad with Las Malvinas. By contrast, if misunderstood, England (thieves) is the only place in the islands where they had, illegally settled.
And last but not least, in the unlikely event that England would have had a right to the islands, prescription irretrievably lost to retire in 1774.
@53
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your making this up as you go along. It’s not just British history also Spanish and French you are trying to re-write.
The French had to tell the Spanish where the Islands were, as they did not know.
Portuguese reported seeing Islands in that vicinity, but the sightings were never confirmed. The Spanish had no idea what was in the S Atlantic.
The British claim the first confirmed discovery of the islands in 1592, because they went back in 1593 and began mapping the islands.
The British then made the first recorded landing on the islands in 1690.
The French sold their settlement to the Spanish once they realized the British had a settlement nearby and would soon find and eject them.
Disputing the British/French/Spanish history of the Islands in the 1700s does not change the fact that Argentina did not exist, in any shape or form, until 1816 (or even if you take 1810).
By doing this, you admit the British had a claim to the Islands long before Argentina ever existed.
As for being the inheritor state of Spain, Argentina broke away from Spain by force of arms, you can no more claim to have inherited Spanish rights or title than you can claim to have inherited Madrid or Gibraltar.
If Argentina ever thought it had a claim, how do you explain the treaty of 1850.
Argentina’s claim today is a Peron invention of the 20th century. Not supported by the evidence, no basis in fact whatsoever.
@51 I don't Think aka The Turnip In Chief.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Somehow I seem to have got onto your role as a Turnip.
Sorry to think this 'Think,' but I think I will resign, Think.
@50 reality check
You are quite correct with that statement.
I do and it is a lovely country with really helpful people.
Unlike our southern cousins, the Argentine ‘government’. Usual exceptions apply, they know who they are :o).
Personally I am starting to feel a lot of sympathy towards Argentinians... every single bit of “Proof” their government comes up with always seems to backfire on them within a few hours or days.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even the “You nasty colonialist Britishers” backfired... because they weren't smart enough (the Argentinian government) to realise that the term Colonialism, applied far more to their attempts of today, than anything Britain had done for decades.
Even when they turn around and say “You havent lived there very long” the rest of the world looks at the entire Argentine nation (excluding the few thousands remaining indigenous) and go - Neither have you!“
They lose out one very single historical argument because, for a huge chunk of it, they didnt even exist, and their claims of having had a ”colony” on the Falklands just leads back to criminals, rapists and murderers... most of whom were delighted to be rescued...by the British..and then decided to stay and live on the island under British sovereignity!
I mean, if it wasnt true you couldnt make it up!
22Monty69
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a very resourceful human.
Chuckle chuckle.
29 Doveoverdover
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you tell us what the definition of 'resident' should be for this one- off occasion? Someone who's been here a year? A week? You could charter a plane especially. I don't think that's going to make a favourable impression of 'democratic legitimacy' anywhere else. I think some people might, heaven forbid, even be tempted to call it electoral fraud.
@54 Not to mention that Argentina should also claim the Canary Islands under uti posedis juris. They are also “clearly” the inheritors of the Spanish legacy (and the Canaries only a bit further away from the (then) nearest point of UP/Arg)
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I firmly believe that the only people who should take part in the Falkland refferendum are those who have a Falklands Birth certific has been nationalised or a permanant residant of more than seven years. They are the people who have so much at stake.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I also believe that all Falkland Island born children from the age of 11 years should be allowed to vote as well. Once they have reached that age they mostly understand what they want in life.
This would be a true representation of what is termed a Falkland Islander.
@ 16 Conqueror
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“1828 - United Provinces makes second attempt to usurp British sovereignty by appointing a businessman as governor”
This is actually not correct.
Luis Vernet received his authority during the “Revolutionary Government” of General Juan Galo de Lavalle, who usurped the governorship of Buenos Aires 1 December 1828 (through 26 June 1829). Lavalle murdered the appointed governor of Buenos Aires, Manuel Dorrego, on 13 December 1828. Thus Vernet did not receive his authority from the United provinces (which, by the way, were not united in 1828).
When the British government learned about the attempted usurpation, they immediately protested as documented in (Argentine) author Alfredo Becerra: “Protestas por Malvinas, 1833-1946” (Buenos Aires, Jun 1998) ISBN-13: 978-9879998922
8. Establece la comandancia de las islas. Decreto firmado por M. Rodríguez. 10 de junio de 1829 (dictatura Lavalle).
8.1. Designa comandante a Vernet. Diploma firmado por M. Rodríguez. 10 de junio de 1829 (dictatura Lavalle).
9. Protesta británica. De Parish a Guido. 19 de noviembre de 1829.
Green eyed giant comes to mind.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some of our little giants think we have more privileges and rights than other Brits. I know we're very lucky people but that could be said about many people; it's all relative. People in the south of England are on average better off than people from the north. People from West Sussex are on average better than people from Gloucestershire. People from Horsham are on average better off than people from Crawley. Students who attend Collyers College are on average more likely to score better than Central Sussex College. People who are in the St Thomas' NHS Trust catchment area are more likely on average to receive better medical treatment than those in the catchment area for the Surrey and Sussex NHS Trust, etc.
I make no apologies folks. You'll just have to get used to it. Life wasn't meant to be easy and nobody said anything about being fair.
@36
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Then French sailors Saint-Malo they named Maluines after Malvinas by Spain.”
You do know how to display ignorance that is mirrored by your president.
The French Malouines was named after St. Malo, the port from where the French settlers originated from, not from the hybrid word 'Malvinas'. The Spanish converted Maloiunes to Maluines. The word Malvinas was first used by Argentina in the late 1880s.
At least get your facts right.
You mirror the Argentine government who corrupt and distort every bit of history they find.
That is why I hope this case is taken to the ICJ, as when the proper examination of historical documents in context is undertaken by lawyers, Argentina's case will be blown out of the water.
I have steadily slagged off the MLA's for not pulling their finger out and replying to the Argentine government's comic book version of history, but praise where it is due, they are changing up agear, and as this gathers momentum, in two years time the Argentines will wish they had not awoken the hibernating creatures that have been the MLA's.
I hope there will be a further new Falkland Islands constitution after the 2013 referendum that will transfer the reponsibility from the UK to the FIG of foreign policy (ie the Falkland Islands representing themselves, as at the UN this year.
Another step towards future independence.
@54 Thank you.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@61 I'm not interested in the minute-by-minute events, pettifogging details and irrelevant niceties. I note that you say “When the British government learned about the attempted usurpation”. So it was an attempted usurpation, wasn't it? You've just said so. It was the second one, wasn't it? If you want to be so exact, go write a speech, a treatise or a book.
chuckle ..
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 64 Conqueror
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0do you want to present the case with errors similar to those of the Argentine side?
The fact that the Buenos Aires government was illegal and unconstitutional cancels Vernet's authorisation in any later context.
The fact that the United Provinces did not exist cancels any claim Argentina may make to the Falkland Islands based on Vernets venture.
Do you have a problem with being corrected when wrong?
(62) Joe Bloggs
Oct 04th, 2012 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0You “conveniently forgot” to mention that:
People from the south and from the north of England, from West Sussex and from Gloucestershire, from Horsham and from Crawley, students from Collyers College and Central Sussex College, patients from the St Thomas and from the Surrey and Sussex NHS catchment area.............
All, all of them pay their very high taxes.......
All, all of them have the right to freely move and reside anywhere in the whole of the UK as they wish.
Except for the Malvinas..................
Where you don't pay any of those high taxes, whilst you enjoy FULL British Rights....................
Where you don't allow any “British rubble” to move or settle in, whilst you enjoy FULL British Residence Righs...............
You say at post post (62):
“I know we're very lucky people
I make no apologies folks. You'll just have to get used to it. Life wasn't meant to be easy and nobody said anything about being fair.”
I say:
You are indeed “very lucky people”......; don't strech your luck too far...
67 Think
Oct 04th, 2012 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who are you quoting when you say 'British rubble'?
I'm sure you've made a big deal in the past about the high proportion of Falkland Islanders who were born in the UK. And now you tell us that British people aren't allowed to settle here. Which is it?
Oh, and the Falkland Islands are not part of the UK.
Think- since when were the Islands part of the UK, and to which the population of UK have the right to come and live in?
Oct 04th, 2012 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0The people in UK can certainly move freely and settle in any full member state of the EU- but nowwhere else that I know of.
Next thing you will be saying that Argentina does not recognise basid Human Rights and that the likes of me have no right to live in the country of my choice- the one of my birth- my heritage - and even less would you allow me th basic human right to elect and live under a Govt of my choice?
I am talking about Human Rights - something that Arg shouts about and promotes I thought? I am not talking about self-determination.
Would Argentina deny human rights to the descendants of those who were here before 3rd Jan 1833 and stayed on volunarily and accepted British Govt back then?
Don't take too much notice of Herr Think, he's a grumpy old man that can't get his own way.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whats the matter dear Think-baby? Didn't you catch any fishies on your holiday?
All you've got to remember, Think, is:-
1) that we're here & we're not moving &
2) You're there & you're not coming here.
Quite simple really.♥
@58 One of your elected representatives is reported here as speaking on behalf of 3000 residents. Someone arrived at the figure 3000. I see that @60 offers an input into your necessary deliberations. If anyone who can get to the island is the wrong answer then just those on the electoral register is likely to be equally wrong too. What about those with Falkland Island status who have left the islands and let their postal vote registrations lapse? Don't their opinions count?
Oct 04th, 2012 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 071 Doveoverdover
Oct 04th, 2012 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I don't think they do. I lived in the UK for quite a while 15 years and more ago, but I don't vote in UK elections and I wouldn't expect to vote if you had a referendum about EU membership, or anything else.
If your permanent home is here, then you get a vote. If not, you don't. I can't see what your problem with that can possibly be.
If you want to argue for having more people on the electoral register, then that is a different issue. In a place where there is a disproportionately high number of migrant workers, it is also a complicated one, and there is no obvious answer. The review of immigration has been going on for 10 years, so I don't think should hod your breath for a solution any time soon.
@72 The problem with that is that the figure that should be banded about is “about” 1500 not 3000. Secondly, I would have thought that the issue of the franchise for the referendum, if not the question itself, should have been properly thought through before the public announcement and the departure of the apostles around the globe.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(71) Doveoverdover
Oct 04th, 2012 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are stepping on some “sore toes” and “holy cows” here.
1) Nor the Kelpers nor their staunch British supporters can accept the fact that there are not 3,000 inhabitants on them Islands. Their own 2012 Census clearly states that they are ~2,500 of them Kelpers……, aging and diminishing rapidly, by their own democratic choice.
2) My own, very primitive and surely defective calculation is that that no more than some 1,200 souls will be entitled to vote on that famous Referendum in 2013……
3) That’s not a big figure when your aspiration is to show the whole World what a vibrant and lively “New Country and Nation” you are……
A New Country and Nation of ~1,200 aging British passports holders!
PS:
B(ull) & S(hiat) down 4.26% to 22.50p today….
Rochflopper down 3.62% to 159.75p today….
“First oil production in 2017, my left foot………….
The moment we finally get that nasty “Oil Business” out of the equation is the moment when reality will hit the Kelpers.
And hit them hard…………..
Chuckle chuckle©
@74 “about 1500” comes from the last referendum (one or two constituencies).
Oct 04th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0P.S. How are Premier, Noble and Edison/EDF doing by the way?
(75) Doveoverdover
Oct 04th, 2012 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You ask:
P.S. How are Premier, Noble and Edison/EDF doing by the way?
I say:
Why should I know?
I don't “do stock”, remember?
Besides..., you're my trusted stockbroker...., you should know! ;-)
73 Doveoverdover
Oct 04th, 2012 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OMG you know I actually agree with that!
(77) Monty69
Oct 04th, 2012 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How could you not agree with pure common sense?
@77 and 78
Oct 04th, 2012 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Steady on chaps, a fellow can only take so much agree-ment...
@76
Sorry, (another word you don't often read here) I meant to say how is the prosecution going, not what's the share price.
(79) Doveoverdover
Oct 04th, 2012 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To tell you the truth, (a concept you don't often see represented here) I have no idea.
@80
Oct 04th, 2012 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was rhetorical (like most of the questions asked here). We all know it isn't going anywhere.
1,200 or 12. lts still none of your business, Squatter Think.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(82) lsolde
Oct 04th, 2012 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be quiet, Pom Woman!
According to my calculations, you are NOT included in the electoral roll ;-)
You sad and jealous old men.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@83 Does he mean you and me?
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think- note that you have failed to answer me at 69? Funny thing that most on your side remain silent when faced with a difficult question.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@83 Chief Squatting Turnip,
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Neither do l expect to be, Squatter.
l wasn't born here.
And l will not be quiet.
YOU should be quiet from shame.
But dahling, l luuuuuuuve you anyways♥
@85 Does she (87) mean you and me?
Oct 04th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0your letting him get to you.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0nelson said,
if they get between us, we are furked
i know, we will get betweem them insted,
and as we all know, he won,
dont let them come between you...lol.
Think, is it you or you?
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l “think” that its you.
They're all mad here bar me 'n thee.
And ah hae me doots abahrt thee.
:-D
Oct 05th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously some African countries have shown that they have lost their anti clonial identity lately. Easily swayed by greed and money placed before their corruptable eyes by former colonial masters, such as shown by Ghana.
Oct 05th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(92) ProRG_American
Oct 06th, 2012 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Juppppp.......
Luckily, all seems to indicate that the Libertad (http://www.ara.mil.ar/FRLI_2012/HTML_MULTIMEDIA/images/12.jpg) will freely continue her journey next week…..
Certainly, the 69 Argentinean….
http://www.ara.mil.ar/FRLI_2012/HTML_MULTIMEDIA/images/12.jpg)
15 Chilean….
http://www.ara.mil.ar/FRLI_2012/HTML_MULTIMEDIA/images/12.jpg)
and 8 Uruguayan cadets on her decks….
http://www.ara.mil.ar/FRLI_2012/HTML_MULTIMEDIA/images/12.jpg)
have learned who's friend and foe in the good year of 2012.....
Anyhow………………..
In the implausible scenario of not being freed; I expect captains Salonio and Allievi to:
1) Select a small volunteer “chore force” to remain on board.
2) Insure the safe return of the rest of her crew and guests to their respective Countries.
3) Scuttle her in the most effective way, exercising utmost care of not damaging or endangering Ghanian property or lives.
@92 Arg_fake American,
Oct 06th, 2012 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh go and have yourself a cup of coffee, you silly man.
Are you trying(but not succeeding)to blame the UK for Ghana's correct actions?
lf your country would pay its debts, Ghana wouldn't have to do anything.
l've heard it all.
Argentina welches on its debts & its Britain's fault.
ha ha ha ha, sob,
hoo hoo hoo hoo.!!
Malvinistas, they live in a parallel but much different universe.
(94) Isolde
Oct 06th, 2012 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The connection with the UK is more than evident, Cher Isolde......
Elliott Associates operates from the Cayman Islands BOT, a known British pirate heaven in the past, a known British tax haven at present……
The “request” against Argentina was bought in a Ghanian Court , an Ex- British “Protectorate” with a very “laissez-faire”,(for not calling it irresponsible) British style commercial legislation.
(LIBOR scandal anybody?)
Inform yourself….:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/17/greece-vulture-funds
Anyhow…..
I would suggest you follow your own advice and brew yourself a nice cup of coffe, dearest…
Try this Robusta blend , it will nicely fit a coffee loving Pirate Squatterette as you …
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/17/greece-vulture-funds
Have a nice weekend….
@95 I'll say this for you, you know how to boost my morale....
Oct 06th, 2012 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina gives some clue of what may be in store for Greece in years to come. Since that country defaulted back in 2001, after years of unjust* debt burdens brought it to its knees, it was swamped with lawsuits from vulture funds that refused to accept Argentina's writedown.”
* Unjust? I sense this trendy young socialist has caught the eye of our very own elderly blue collar socialist in Chabut.
Cher Think,
Oct 06th, 2012 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are the one who should “lnform yourself”
1) The root cause of this entire action is because your precious Argentina refuses to pay its debts.
lf you didn't owe(&refuse to repay)anything, this entire scenario would not have happened.
l ALWAYS repaid my debts, what makes Argentina so special that it doesn't have to repay?
2) l very rarely read the Guardian, it is a red-ragging, scare-mongering, left-wing, tree hugging, warm & fuzzy feeling, lie-sheet.
The mere fact that you malvinistas get your “facts” from it, puts me off its ramblings anyway.
l don't mind being called a pirate(although l've never pirated!), it has a certain raffish air to it. And Johnny Depp is so sexy!
But l take issue with the “squatter” description, especially from one such as yourself who IS a squatter.
You are squatting on lndian land, dear Thinkus.
Land stolen from dead people. People that Argentines killed.
You have no moral highground, my good man.
Dear Isolde…..
Oct 06th, 2012 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentinean debt bonds in question have been officially restructured, renegotiated and taken out of circulation…..
The bonds actually in the hands of the Vulture Funds are not legal tender anymore….
How can I put it so that your sweet, conservative, feminine mind understands it?
I know…….! Let’s speak gold……..! You luuuuuv gold….! Don't yah?.:
Today, one can buy old British 10 pounds, “Gold Standard”, banknotes for about £25 quid.
Each of those bills bears a handsigned guarantee by the British Banks / Government/ Crown to be redeemed in pure Gold bullion.
A smart Vulture Fund could, in principle, buy a billion old British 10 pounds, “gold standard”, banknotes, hire some smart lawyer and demand that the present UK government pays their nominal gold worth upfront.
Do you follow me until now?
10 Pounds were worth approximately 10 Gold Sovereigns.
10 Gold Sovereigns weight approximately 73 gram of 22 k gold.
73 gram of 22k gold are approximately 2,500 £ worth.
Such a trick would give the Vultures a profit of 10,000 %.....
Smart huhhhh?
But........., of course......., that can not be done because those old British 10 pounds, “gold standard”, banknotes have been officially restructured, renegotiated and taken out of circulation…..
Just like the Argentinean debt bonds........
Comprende now, My dear Isolde?
PS:
I have got verbal residence permit from the locals, Squatterette-Honey…
Got it at a Nguillatún some 50 years ago, Squatterette-Honey…
You weren’t even “think” off then, Squatterette-Honey…
Spain may have once claimed the FI but under what frivolous pretext does Argentina claim S.Georgia and S.Sandwich, etc, since these islands lie east of the Treaty of Tordesillas line? (thus in the former Portuguese sphere of influence). If the claim derives from the fact that SG is administered from the FI, then that implies de facto recognition of British sovereignty over the FI. IMO the Arg claim to SG weakens their (already weak) case vis a vis the FI since it reveals the true motivation behind both claims - ie, GREED and POWER LUST.
Oct 06th, 2012 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(99)*
Oct 06th, 2012 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whilst the true British motivation for claiming the very same Islands is their deep love for Rockhopper Penguins and Black-browed Albatrosses....
* My deep respect for the original bearer of the name, prevents me from using it in connection with a scoffing turnip such as you.....
Condescending Think in full flight.
Oct 06th, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However you pretty your words, Think
Your country OWES money.
lf you can't repay, don't borrow in the first place.
A verbal residence permit? oh riiiiiiiight, so makes it alright then!
Did they have revolvers or SEMI-automatics at their heads when they gave you the OK to take their land?
Stop it Think, the hole you're in, its getting deeper.
l am someone's honey, dear Think, but not yours.
(101) Isolde
Oct 06th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong, dearest....
After a bankrupcy, one starts anew....
We still owe money and we are paying....
But NOT to the Vulture funds, comprende....?
Juppppp......, a verbal permit all right....., until recently, the Mapuches didn't have a written language...... They didn't need one..... Their word is much more worth than ours......
No revolvers dahling....we were all quite pissed and munching my sacrificial lambs....
You will always be my honey, honey......
102 I don't Think aka The Turnip In Chief
Oct 07th, 2012 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bad news I don't Think. I have had to demote you to the SECOND BIGGEST LIAR on MercoPress as RG-American has taken over the top spot. I knew you wouldn't mind being relegated to the second rank because you must be used to it by now being an AG.
BTW Vulture funds hold your bonds and whether you or your despicable government like it or not they are legal and redeemable at face value and to their terms.
If you bunch of petty crooks had paid up in the first place none of this would be taking place. Don’t you just love it when a plan falls into place?
Just wait and see what Singer does next.
Isn’t it exciting: for me that is, not you.
@102Think,
Oct 07th, 2012 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Their word is much more worth than ours......”
That l COULD believe, my dear Think.
l should think that ANYONE'S word is worth much, much more than a malvinista.
So you got them all pissed, then got them to sign their land over to you...........?
l rest my case.
(104) Isolde.......
Oct 07th, 2012 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just to clarify your pretty and confused feminine mind......
I firstly approached the local elders and got their tacit and spoken acquiescence for my presence , under a Ngillantún…..........
I, subsequently, bought “legally” some few but pretty square meters of Patagonian meadows and native forest from Don Anacleto Rosales, one of our good pioneers in Chubut…….......
Just enough space for the dogs, the horses , me shed and I..........
And, as it is the case with the dogs and the horses, I don’t consider the land to be my “property”… ........
I’m just privileged to be able to live amid them …
Clear enough for you, my “gold dazzled”, “property oriented”, “ sweet vixen wannabe”, “ British Squatterette”?
As again, my good fellow, you presume too much.
Oct 07th, 2012 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My mind is far from confused, is yours?
Who said l was “property oriented” or “gold dazzled”? & as for the rest of your twaddle, well its just...........twaddle.
You would need quite a bit of land to support horses.
lts really hard to take you seriously, Think, or believe anything that you say.
Anyway enjoy the rest of your sunday(you have been to church, haven't you?).
(106) Isolde
Oct 07th, 2012 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just remember what you have told us about yourself……:
”47 lsolde Jul 03rd, 2011
”l love the way the early morning sunlight gleams on my gold bars!”
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/07/01/falkland-islands-rockhopper-exploration-plc-pr
Sounds pretty much ” Gold Dazzled” to me; squatterette honey……
Anyhow.....
Nice of you to “Think” about them horses....
Don't worry about them.... they are an harmonious pack with enough tender grass and space to run and roll.
What about your fat cats?
@107 think
Oct 07th, 2012 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“... they are an harmonious pack with enough tender grass and space to run and roll.”
-great fantasy!! What about the unicorns??
Sweet love letters you are writing to Isolde!
And to think you kept all her letters...
Really, this is a bit too personal.
Sounds like you use the Internet to obsess and fantasize over women you can't have. Any other sites you visit?
”l love the way the early morning sunlight gleams on my gold bars!”
No gold bullion, Commander Isolde RN was just commenting on her uniform insignia. The sub pens are almost complete now, and the invasion force is readying itself.
@105
Oct 10th, 2012 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ British Squatterette”
You are not squatting if you own the property.
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