Britain plans to withdraw thousands of troops from Afghanistan next year, Defence Secretary Philip Hammond said, as pressure mounts to end British involvement in the costly and unpopular war. Read full article
Good news, 9000 too many though...
On another subject, and call it off-topic, but if it is so, it's merely because of your own neglection...
Why nothing on the little issue where your high officers and military men do lobbying for weapon producers in order to offer them profitable contracts with the UK army? Mayhap that is less important for the Islanders than te happenings of Gibraltar?
The lobbying is under investigation all the time, that's not news really. I admit, though, that also is an extremely bad thing, any military personnel acting with a second motive or abusing their position should be ashamed of themselves.
Santa Fe
Sure, now they can kill defenseless women and children just about anywhere in the world, with no more remorse than that constant tic on the right eye... ;)
Indeed, trained and supported by you lot and your allies, our military (uruguay's included), are useful tools of yours. That is why we reduced them to basically non-existant. Try again.
Those under investigation are not serving officers, they have retired, and will face justice should they be found guilty.
There is presently no indication that they were serving when any of these alleged crimes took place.
In regards to the story, this isn't news, this has been on the cards for years, and mentioned many times in Parliament an on the UK news, that draw down of troops would begin and be completed by 2015, if not sooner.
Tell me, Guzz, you have stated in previous posts on other threads that you support the poor blameless Taliban. Do you still support the 'brave' Taliban who tried to murder a 14 year old girl because she spoke out against them, because she wanted an education, because she wanted freedom?
Your morals are completely skewed, and you always look at situations with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight; remarking from standing on 'your' moral highground, that this should or should not have been done.
It's a little different when you have to make a decision without knowing what the future holds.
Don't be too hard on the sanctimonious mocker, he is, afterall, just Guzz.
No more & no less than we've come to expect from a detached, no responsibilty, highgrounder like others of his ilk.
Just like Think actually.
Hey Guzz, is Think your old man, or uncle or some other relation?
What a load of rubbish. Your armed forces are trained by your officers. YOUR armed forced are financed and staffed(supported) by YOUR nation.
Just because five or so of our troops may have gone on a training mission with five of yours does not mean we trained your entire army. It's the equivalent of you saying that i support the destruction of the rainforest because i once had a big mac.
After the way they are treated by their own government, they should not be their,
The sooner they come home the better,
Perhaps they could be sent to operation south Atlantic next year,
We hear a poss. 23 royal navy ships , RAF and 5,000 troops
Exercise is good for the locals, to watch and admire,
And for future enemies to look in awe..
Justa thought.
Finally we can end this ordeal. Maybe we could deploy the 9000 to the Falklands, after all the Argies get a bit turned on by Militarisation. Because its not like they can militarise in any way. Lol
With all the guys coming home, they are going to have to be deployed somewhere, cue Resident Falkland Islands Battalion? now that really would stir things up down south, can you imagine the reaction!
@22
War is lost? Don't think so.
The objective was to remove the Taliban from power......Completed
The objective was to destroy the leadership of Al-Queda...Completed
The objective was to neutralise Osama Bin-Laden......Completed
The objective was to rebuild the Infrastructure, water services etc....Completed
The objective was to stop the Taliban form preventing Children form going to school......Completed(mostly)
The objective was to stop the Taliban form murdering women who exposed skin in the street in front of bystanders....Completed(mostly)
The list goes on, I may not have agreed with the war per say but we did do the job that was meant to be completed despite problems along the way.
Cant Afford? Not sure what you mean it costs very little to maintain 1500 troops in the Falklands as it is, barely 150 million in fact. Im sure we could always have a few more to keep you and your Argie friends out.
@6 Guzz
“Indeed, trained and supported by you lot and your allies”
Come on, I thought you would have gotten past that by now.
Our military did it, stop blaming others.
Our military (supported by a lot of our public) committed the crimes in our countries.
Not their military, not their public.
Sure, the USA and French sent “technical help”, but we were under no obligation to receive it.
It might hurt but it is true.
@25 Maybe you haven't noticed, but the Taliban are in control of half the country, and will regain control by 2015 because of the failure that is the Karzai government. We haven't won.
:) never have I said I support taliban, which doesn't mean I support the murdeting of talibans. Afghanistan is so much more than taliban, yet you call them all the same for conveniance. I don't support them for other reasons than you lot though. While I see murders of children as responsable for crimes against humanity, you see them as mere competition...
You are a fool. No one in Britain takes the loss of life of anyone in the blasé manner that you do.
Soldiers have a code of honour that they live by, they are also governed by law, and should they break the law they are held accountable.
The majority of deaths in Afghanistan are caused by the Taliban as they murder, intimidate and threaten the people of Afghanistan. The majority of Taliban fighters are foreigners who care nothing for Afghanistan or its people. Foreigners from places like Pakistan, Iran and Chechnya who are trying to enforce their ideals on the people. Their ideals that aren't even Islamic.
For instance, the Prophet Mohammed strictly forbade the killing of women and children, even non-Muslims. Yet the Taliban believe that they know better than the Prophet, which is blasphemy, and murder with impunity.
At least the UK and other countries like us are trying to make things better. If we weren't there it could be another Rwanda.
People like you Guzz just stand on the sidelines and criticise, but you don't have the moral courage to take a stand on any issue, and your certainly don't have the courage to put your money where your mouth is.
Stand in the sideline? I ended up in the lions mouth for being in the middle of the action. You have no idea what I have seen and I most surely want no pity from you. One thing I can say though. Nunca mas.
@28
Did you read my comment or did you presume that I'm some sort of chest thumping nationalist? We have completed all the objectives we set out to do. But I except that the Taliban will always be an issue. Oh and FYI they do not own half the country, quite an exaggeration, they are limited to certain pockets in particular Southern and Western Helmand. In the long run they will always be a problem but let me assure you as someone who knows and works with troops and has researched this issue they wont get back into power however they will always be a problem and yes they will influence the government in some way. It was a mistake to get involved in a rag head filled country like that. This is the fourth time we have entered Afghan and again we have had to fight Guerilla warfare. The best solution for a situation like this is several Trident missiles over a wide area, yes you commit genocide but it does at least get rid of the problem.
36
Been there and seen the t-shirt. The man wearing it let the blood dry on it so it would soften the pain when he was being battered, like a carcass. You have no idea what you are talking about, old man. Killing women and children from safe ground. How brave of you!! Nunca mas!!!
Thank god they are coming home, next time the Taliban kick off we should just drop a dirty big bomb on them without a single loss of our armed forces lives. The whole mess has been such a needless waste of our soldiers lives.
35 Conor J (#)
The best solution for a situation like this is several Trident missiles over a wide area, yes you commit genocide but it does at least get rid of the problem.
So how do we get rid of the other problem? .... you.
42 Britworker (#)
You finbally begin to make sense.
@36 They're all over Afghanistan, not just Helmand Province. Since 2007, they have regained their strength and have killed even more soldiers than before. We've been fighting a losing battle since 2007, and the corrupt government that is the Karzai admin. has little influence outside Kabul.
Guzz has been nowhere and done nothing. You can tell from his posts.
He's probably never seen a dead body, let alone a badly wounded one.
If he had he wouldn't talk about it in such a blasé fashion. In fact his post @39 proves my point in spades, it's pure nonsense.
Like many trolls on here he believes if he pretends he has done something it gives him more credibility, when in fact it doesn't it just shows him up to be a pathetic liar.
He also avoided mentioning his views on the Taliban trying to murder a 14 year old girl, because it doesn't fit in with his delusion that the Taliban are decent chaps fighting against the evil imperialist US and UK.
He has never met an Afghan national. Most Afghans don't want foreign troops in their country, which is perfectly understandable. What Guzz and others like him fail to understand is that the majority of the Taliban are foreigners too, nd the Afghans don't want them their either. Unlike the ISAF forces, the foreign Taliban have no intention of leaving Afghanistan, because their goal is to destroy it, nd spread their unholy, anti-Islamic religion further.
The ISAF forces have been training the Afghan forces for years, and yes there has been the odd green on blue attack (most of them nothing to do with the Taliban no matter how much the claim responsibility), but their forces are pretty much trained now, and are conducting patrols and missions on their own.
It's time to hand over full responsibility for their security to the Afghan Army and Police. That means less troops needed, because the Afghan Army are now fulfilling that role. Some troops will stay in a advisory capacity until about 2015, but the number will be extremely small.
@46 - THEMan
Err, no your post is wrong. I know this because I am an ex-Army medic who works in Birmingham and we receive the battle casualties.
The numbers of killed and wounded are significantly lower than 2 years ago.
Lep
You are murderers of women and children, regardless of what I have seen in SA. I'm not going to enter a discussion defending my past, don't feel the need to defend nor proove anything when it comes to you lot. Believe me or not, you are STILL murderers of women and children. Want me to post some links on the named victims? I've posted 3 already, I could easily do it again, only for you this time...
and yet again Guzz has posted a blinder at 48!!!I really don't think he knows what he is talking about.
you are STILL murderers of women and children. Want me to post some links on the named victims?
WTF??? oh dear Guzz, you still think you understand without understanding. Yes there are always so called collateral damage in war. Especially in a war such as the one we are fighting in Afghanistan. but murderers??? You are way off the mark there Guzz me old son.
and what is this sh*t? :-
I'm not going to enter a discussion defending my past, don't feel the need to defend nor proove anything when it comes to you lot
Arn't you the one constantly berating the British Empire and the UK's Colonial past???
never have I said I support taliban, which doesn't mean I support the murdeting of talibans
Murdering Taliban??? who?? Don't suppose you've heard of the Rules of engagement have you?
Afghanistan is so much more than taliban, yet you call them all the same for conveniance
True, The Taliban are made of forgien fighters from Iran and Pakistan to name but two and Afghan drug lords, young men from the villages chosen to fight by their elders as payment to the taliban and unemployed Afghans, the so called 10 dollar Taliban Paid to fight ISAF forces for 10 dollars a day.
It is you who know nothing, or, because you know a thing or two, you think you know it all..............clown
You state that I am a murderer?!? Where is your evidence?!? Oh that's right, you haven't got any, and your are desperately (very desperately looking at the quality of your post) trying to justify your position.
The Taliban deliberately give children bombs and tell them to walk into a busy market place, promising to give them sweets or a few dollars. They are the murderers because they do it with deliberate malice knowing that the child is going to die.
The ISAF forces don't deliberately target women and children, and you are a fool if you believe otherwise.
Guzz you are blinding by your hatred of everything British or US that you willing side with the murderers of children.
That's why you are pathetic, because it all or nothing with you.
@54 LEP maybe I should say again. Since 2007, the Taliban have regained their strength and have killed more soldiers in the 5 years to 2012, than before that year. We're losing the war, and more of the Afghan soldiers are joining the Taliban (for different reasons) to fight us. The civilians are turning against us, because of our idiotic counterparts' need to destroy their homes (e.g. burning perfectly legal crops, food stocks, noticed this in several news sites in around 2010-2011). Fact is, we've wasted the past 5 years trying to set up a failing army, and government who has little control outside Kabul.
I would say that the US killed more innocent people in Iraq than Saddam did, which is an enormous feat considering he was the dictator who would torture his own people. I don't think we should even get involved in matters like this anymore. But we don't have a say, do we? Always the government running into wars which we hate. Anyway, I still agree that there are a lot of Argies who hate us, and have nothing better to do but insult those who weren't even involved in it (Guzz is an exception as he's from Uruguay, but still doesn't really have positive opinions towards English people).
I disagree with your statement. There is a misconception that because Afghanistan hasn't suddenly become a carbon copy of a western society that we have somehow 'failed'. But why should Afghanistan emulate the west?
They have their own rich history and culture, and it is up to them to find a way forwards that will benefit the people of Afghanistan. Advances have been made, and will continue to happen.
The people of Afghanistan want to live in a peaceful society, that while islamic, won't be run by extremists.
The only way that can happen is through the training of their own security forces, which is precisely what ISAF has been doing for years. The Afghan forces are ready and confident that they can do this.
You base all your opinions on the news. Well the problem with the news is that they very rarely ever report on the good things happening in Afghanistan. The hospitals and schools built by the British and other ISAF countries. The improvements made to the infrastructure with more roads, allowing more trade around the country.
You see, news organisations think this is boring, and that viewers will switch off. Oh no, a disaster is far better than a 'feel good' story in regards to ratings.
In a few years time, Afghanistan will be 100% in charge of their own security. They'll do it their way, which might not be the wests way, but they do it with confidence and a sense of national identity, and a new found belief that their country can be a success, and they'll have pride in their country.
That's all the Afghans want, and that is what ISAF has been working to bring about.
@60 LEP I understand that they've built new schools, got women into education and jobs (still limited), and moderately improved the infrastructure. That's not my point.
My point is that the current Karzai government is corrupt, doesn't have any kind of influence or control over outer Afghanistan, and won't be able to fight the Taliban by themselves after 2015, due to their poor training, discipline, and many of the soldiers being corrupt. Once we leave the country, they will fail in keeping Afghanistan a 'democratic' country, and the country will spiral back into extremists.
As for the infrastructure, they've built dirt roads that are in poor condition, and many of the new schools and hospitals are regularly attacked with bombs (some even destroyed) which means some can't use them.
Anyway, since you mentioned the media, let me make a fair comment. We'll probably never know what exactly happens in Afghanistan with the Army, Taliban or the people due to a lot of exaggeration or propaganda in it, but we all know that they are struggling to gain freedom from the Taliban, and we are ultimately failing in our objective to get rid of them.
@59 nope just English. Read his previous contributions, then you'll see why
Unfortunately that is how it is in Afghanistan. There is always some form of corruption, even when the Taliban were running things.
They are still very loyal to a tribal system, and in elections will vote for whomever their tribal elders tell them to.
As I said in my post, it's not the wests way of doing things, but if it works for them fine. Things will improve slowly, but you have to remember that they are coming back from the brink.
There are no guarantees that they won't descend into civil war once ISAF have left, but the Afghan Taliban have been making conciliatory noises because they're as fed up of the fighting as any other Afghan. The main problem are the foreign Taliban who want to destroy Afghanistan.
I don't believe the people of Afghanistan want that, so they will support their own troops and their own government, as flawed as it may be.
But in time they'll develop a more equitable system. It's not all doom and gloom.
As for our objective in Afghanistan, it was never to get rid of the Taliban, it was to provide security whilst training up the Afghan Army and police. To provide security to allow infrastructure to be built and government systems to be developed and put into place.
No wonder you're all doom and gloom if that's why you thought ISAF was there.
Foreign Taliban... That's the worst piece of homemade excuse I've heard in a long time, earlier posts indicates you can surely find better ones, you are full of them. Meanwhile, in the real world, you are getting your arses kicked by the Afghans, just like the Russians before you.
Your ignorance is astounding. You are a racist. This means that you hate the British, though if your Uruguayan I'm not sure why. You reasons for hating the British seem to be mired in the past which you constantly judge using modern day laws and morals, whilst conveniently ignoring the dubious past histories of South American countries.
Because you hate the British you support anyone who you perceive as being an enemy to the British. Hence why you support the Taliban.
You would hate the British even if all we ever did was wander around the world doing charitable works. You see racist, bigot, fascist.
If you truly knew anything about the situation in Afghanistan you would know that there is a foreign Taliban, made up of people from Iran, Pakistan, Chechneya and other countries.
Are you going to answer my question Guzz? Do you support the Taliban? The same Taliban who tried to murder a 14 year old girl for daring to stand up to them? Do you think of them as 'brave'?
You keep avoiding answering this question. I wonder why?
62 Nice comment!!!
So karzai is corrupt, they wont be able to fight the taliban, they will fail in keep Afghanistan democracyand the country will spiral back to extremists.
Dear explain for what reason did you invaded them since now they are worst than before and after 10 years you werent able to give any solution than more violence over more violence????
Leave them alone, you dont give peace and democracy to nobody, its sth that every country has to build on their own way and without your sweet and peaceful help. 10 years and how many died, and you couldnt win the war.
65
Brits aren't a race, believe it or not, and don't blame the rest of the Brits for your flaws, I don't.
I will have to repeat myself, and I will write this slowly just so you can keep up. Ready? I don't support the Taliban. Got that? Good.
The Talibans are an islamic religious and political movement that, regardless of you and me disagreeing with it, is a lot less foreign than your dear army. And regardless of what we think, every person has the right and responsibility to fight against an invading nation.
I don't support Taliban ideology, as I condemn the shooting of that brave little girl. But I fully support Afghanistans right to joyfully kick your arses, sadly enough, at their expense.
I got a question for you. What is your opinion on Hanan Saleh Matrud? She was 8 years old when she was shot in the torso. Do you remember her? Why didn't you and your lots media pay as much attention to that murder? Now go gogle her name..
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGood news, 9000 too many though...
Oct 16th, 2012 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0On another subject, and call it off-topic, but if it is so, it's merely because of your own neglection...
Why nothing on the little issue where your high officers and military men do lobbying for weapon producers in order to offer them profitable contracts with the UK army? Mayhap that is less important for the Islanders than te happenings of Gibraltar?
It is great news that we're withdrawing.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0The lobbying is under investigation all the time, that's not news really. I admit, though, that also is an extremely bad thing, any military personnel acting with a second motive or abusing their position should be ashamed of themselves.
Great news can wait for our brave lads to return, battle hardened troops will insure the uk army is the top of the tree in training and effectiveness.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 08:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0How's the training frigate release mission going?????
Santa Fe
Oct 16th, 2012 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure, now they can kill defenseless women and children just about anywhere in the world, with no more remorse than that constant tic on the right eye... ;)
Guzz
Oct 16th, 2012 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Murdering defenseless women and children ie making 30,000 civilians disappear, is the speciality of argentine forces.
Indeed, trained and supported by you lot and your allies, our military (uruguay's included), are useful tools of yours. That is why we reduced them to basically non-existant. Try again.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 05... You beat me to it, trolls in glass houses guzz trolls in glass houses
Oct 16th, 2012 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Guzz
Oct 16th, 2012 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Those under investigation are not serving officers, they have retired, and will face justice should they be found guilty.
There is presently no indication that they were serving when any of these alleged crimes took place.
In regards to the story, this isn't news, this has been on the cards for years, and mentioned many times in Parliament an on the UK news, that draw down of troops would begin and be completed by 2015, if not sooner.
Tell me, Guzz, you have stated in previous posts on other threads that you support the poor blameless Taliban. Do you still support the 'brave' Taliban who tried to murder a 14 year old girl because she spoke out against them, because she wanted an education, because she wanted freedom?
Your morals are completely skewed, and you always look at situations with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight; remarking from standing on 'your' moral highground, that this should or should not have been done.
It's a little different when you have to make a decision without knowing what the future holds.
Guzz
Oct 16th, 2012 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are a typical argie blaming everybody else for your own failings - try again.
Guzz, you are a monumental idiot!
Oct 16th, 2012 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be too hard on the sanctimonious mocker, he is, afterall, just Guzz.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0No more & no less than we've come to expect from a detached, no responsibilty, highgrounder like others of his ilk.
Just like Think actually.
Hey Guzz, is Think your old man, or uncle or some other relation?
Comment removed by the editor.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 012..two more beers please john
Oct 16th, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed, trained and supported by you lot
Oct 16th, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a load of rubbish. Your armed forces are trained by your officers. YOUR armed forced are financed and staffed(supported) by YOUR nation.
Just because five or so of our troops may have gone on a training mission with five of yours does not mean we trained your entire army. It's the equivalent of you saying that i support the destruction of the rainforest because i once had a big mac.
So now you can put them in an upright position and sit on them! ahhhhhhhh hahahah
Oct 16th, 2012 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would seem that Brits are now vicariously liable for the bad behaviour of Argentines they have met. That's a new concept.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After the way they are treated by their own government, they should not be their,
Oct 16th, 2012 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The sooner they come home the better,
Perhaps they could be sent to operation south Atlantic next year,
We hear a poss. 23 royal navy ships , RAF and 5,000 troops
Exercise is good for the locals, to watch and admire,
And for future enemies to look in awe..
Justa thought.
.
with your missiles of course!!!! hahaha
Oct 16th, 2012 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0with your missiles of course!!!! hahaha
Oct 16th, 2012 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you dont have any missiles.
Finally we can end this ordeal. Maybe we could deploy the 9000 to the Falklands, after all the Argies get a bit turned on by Militarisation. Because its not like they can militarise in any way. Lol
Oct 16th, 2012 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With all the guys coming home, they are going to have to be deployed somewhere, cue Resident Falkland Islands Battalion? now that really would stir things up down south, can you imagine the reaction!
Oct 16th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The economy is sinkinga and the war is lost!
Oct 16th, 2012 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 020 Conor J (#) Keep spending more money that you can't afford to spend.
22... Fake yank
Oct 16th, 2012 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The war was 30 years ago get over it, and your economy has been crap for a while, life's too short just chill winston!!!!
@22 - Fake yank
Oct 16th, 2012 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike Argentina the UK can afford to spend money on defence. Even with the cuts we have more than enough men and equipment to keep Argentina at bay.
Let's see, 4 Typhoons, 1 destroyer, 1 submarine (that may or may not be in the area), 1,200 members of the UK armed forces.
Yup, more than enough to make Argentina tremble, whine and cry about militarisation. How the rest of the world must laugh at you.
@22
Oct 16th, 2012 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0War is lost? Don't think so.
The objective was to remove the Taliban from power......Completed
The objective was to destroy the leadership of Al-Queda...Completed
The objective was to neutralise Osama Bin-Laden......Completed
The objective was to rebuild the Infrastructure, water services etc....Completed
The objective was to stop the Taliban form preventing Children form going to school......Completed(mostly)
The objective was to stop the Taliban form murdering women who exposed skin in the street in front of bystanders....Completed(mostly)
The list goes on, I may not have agreed with the war per say but we did do the job that was meant to be completed despite problems along the way.
Cant Afford? Not sure what you mean it costs very little to maintain 1500 troops in the Falklands as it is, barely 150 million in fact. Im sure we could always have a few more to keep you and your Argie friends out.
70% of Afghani men polled WANTED NATO security forces at the start. Now that we've liberated their ten year old former slave-brides too, not so much.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's good the U.S. is downsizing in Oct. as well as U.K. Our libertarian senator, Ron Paul has always voted for peace.
@6 Guzz
Oct 16th, 2012 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Indeed, trained and supported by you lot and your allies”
Come on, I thought you would have gotten past that by now.
Our military did it, stop blaming others.
Our military (supported by a lot of our public) committed the crimes in our countries.
Not their military, not their public.
Sure, the USA and French sent “technical help”, but we were under no obligation to receive it.
It might hurt but it is true.
@25 Maybe you haven't noticed, but the Taliban are in control of half the country, and will regain control by 2015 because of the failure that is the Karzai government. We haven't won.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The sooner our lads are out of afghan the better, that's all I care about.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oooops! I guess that I stuck my finger in an open wound.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conor J, Please revisit your accomplishments list.
:) never have I said I support taliban, which doesn't mean I support the murdeting of talibans. Afghanistan is so much more than taliban, yet you call them all the same for conveniance. I don't support them for other reasons than you lot though. While I see murders of children as responsable for crimes against humanity, you see them as mere competition...
Oct 16th, 2012 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(27) Condorito
Oct 16th, 2012 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, Condorito, of course...................
And the moon is made of cheese............................
@31 - Guzz
Oct 16th, 2012 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a fool. No one in Britain takes the loss of life of anyone in the blasé manner that you do.
Soldiers have a code of honour that they live by, they are also governed by law, and should they break the law they are held accountable.
The majority of deaths in Afghanistan are caused by the Taliban as they murder, intimidate and threaten the people of Afghanistan. The majority of Taliban fighters are foreigners who care nothing for Afghanistan or its people. Foreigners from places like Pakistan, Iran and Chechnya who are trying to enforce their ideals on the people. Their ideals that aren't even Islamic.
For instance, the Prophet Mohammed strictly forbade the killing of women and children, even non-Muslims. Yet the Taliban believe that they know better than the Prophet, which is blasphemy, and murder with impunity.
At least the UK and other countries like us are trying to make things better. If we weren't there it could be another Rwanda.
People like you Guzz just stand on the sidelines and criticise, but you don't have the moral courage to take a stand on any issue, and your certainly don't have the courage to put your money where your mouth is.
Stand in the sideline? I ended up in the lions mouth for being in the middle of the action. You have no idea what I have seen and I most surely want no pity from you. One thing I can say though. Nunca mas.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28
Oct 16th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you read my comment or did you presume that I'm some sort of chest thumping nationalist? We have completed all the objectives we set out to do. But I except that the Taliban will always be an issue. Oh and FYI they do not own half the country, quite an exaggeration, they are limited to certain pockets in particular Southern and Western Helmand. In the long run they will always be a problem but let me assure you as someone who knows and works with troops and has researched this issue they wont get back into power however they will always be a problem and yes they will influence the government in some way. It was a mistake to get involved in a rag head filled country like that. This is the fourth time we have entered Afghan and again we have had to fight Guerilla warfare. The best solution for a situation like this is several Trident missiles over a wide area, yes you commit genocide but it does at least get rid of the problem.
@34 - Guzz
Oct 16th, 2012 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yawn! Pulling the I've been there and bought the t-shirt rhetoric won't work.
1 out of 10, must try harder or La Campora will stop paying you.
32 Think
Oct 16th, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...and how did they coerce our benign military to carry out their wicked plans?
(37) Condorito = Turnip.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 036
Oct 16th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Been there and seen the t-shirt. The man wearing it let the blood dry on it so it would soften the pain when he was being battered, like a carcass. You have no idea what you are talking about, old man. Killing women and children from safe ground. How brave of you!! Nunca mas!!!
@38
Oct 16th, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There we have the answer from a man with no argument...childish name calling.
32 Think (#) (27) Condorito
Oct 16th, 2012 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, Condorito, of course...................
And the moon is made of cheese............................
Haaaaa! I Love It!!!!!
Thank god they are coming home, next time the Taliban kick off we should just drop a dirty big bomb on them without a single loss of our armed forces lives. The whole mess has been such a needless waste of our soldiers lives.
Oct 16th, 2012 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 035 Conor J (#)
Oct 16th, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The best solution for a situation like this is several Trident missiles over a wide area, yes you commit genocide but it does at least get rid of the problem.
So how do we get rid of the other problem? .... you.
42 Britworker (#)
You finbally begin to make sense.
right or wrongly,
Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0when the west, romoves its troops and other military,
then and only then, will the world see what will happen in afgan.
something tell us,
peace and harmany, will be something , some would have wished they did not throgh away.
and blood and violence will be the order of the day.
we will just have to wait and see.
just an opinion.
Guzz! Where were u? Which lions mouth? What action did you see? Army? Medic? Civilian worker?
Oct 17th, 2012 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@36 They're all over Afghanistan, not just Helmand Province. Since 2007, they have regained their strength and have killed even more soldiers than before. We've been fighting a losing battle since 2007, and the corrupt government that is the Karzai admin. has little influence outside Kabul.
Oct 17th, 2012 - 02:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@45 - Brit abroad
Oct 17th, 2012 - 06:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz has been nowhere and done nothing. You can tell from his posts.
He's probably never seen a dead body, let alone a badly wounded one.
If he had he wouldn't talk about it in such a blasé fashion. In fact his post @39 proves my point in spades, it's pure nonsense.
Like many trolls on here he believes if he pretends he has done something it gives him more credibility, when in fact it doesn't it just shows him up to be a pathetic liar.
He also avoided mentioning his views on the Taliban trying to murder a 14 year old girl, because it doesn't fit in with his delusion that the Taliban are decent chaps fighting against the evil imperialist US and UK.
He has never met an Afghan national. Most Afghans don't want foreign troops in their country, which is perfectly understandable. What Guzz and others like him fail to understand is that the majority of the Taliban are foreigners too, nd the Afghans don't want them their either. Unlike the ISAF forces, the foreign Taliban have no intention of leaving Afghanistan, because their goal is to destroy it, nd spread their unholy, anti-Islamic religion further.
The ISAF forces have been training the Afghan forces for years, and yes there has been the odd green on blue attack (most of them nothing to do with the Taliban no matter how much the claim responsibility), but their forces are pretty much trained now, and are conducting patrols and missions on their own.
It's time to hand over full responsibility for their security to the Afghan Army and Police. That means less troops needed, because the Afghan Army are now fulfilling that role. Some troops will stay in a advisory capacity until about 2015, but the number will be extremely small.
@46 - THEMan
Err, no your post is wrong. I know this because I am an ex-Army medic who works in Birmingham and we receive the battle casualties.
The numbers of killed and wounded are significantly lower than 2 years ago.
Lep
Oct 17th, 2012 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are murderers of women and children, regardless of what I have seen in SA. I'm not going to enter a discussion defending my past, don't feel the need to defend nor proove anything when it comes to you lot. Believe me or not, you are STILL murderers of women and children. Want me to post some links on the named victims? I've posted 3 already, I could easily do it again, only for you this time...
47 LEPRecon
Oct 17th, 2012 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0and yet again Guzz has posted a blinder at 48!!!I really don't think he knows what he is talking about.
you are STILL murderers of women and children. Want me to post some links on the named victims?
WTF??? oh dear Guzz, you still think you understand without understanding. Yes there are always so called collateral damage in war. Especially in a war such as the one we are fighting in Afghanistan. but murderers??? You are way off the mark there Guzz me old son.
and what is this sh*t? :-
I'm not going to enter a discussion defending my past, don't feel the need to defend nor proove anything when it comes to you lot
Arn't you the one constantly berating the British Empire and the UK's Colonial past???
never have I said I support taliban, which doesn't mean I support the murdeting of talibans
Murdering Taliban??? who?? Don't suppose you've heard of the Rules of engagement have you?
Afghanistan is so much more than taliban, yet you call them all the same for conveniance
True, The Taliban are made of forgien fighters from Iran and Pakistan to name but two and Afghan drug lords, young men from the villages chosen to fight by their elders as payment to the taliban and unemployed Afghans, the so called 10 dollar Taliban Paid to fight ISAF forces for 10 dollars a day.
It is you who know nothing, or, because you know a thing or two, you think you know it all..............clown
Bla bla bla... Stop murdering women and children!!
Oct 17th, 2012 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0grow up guzz
Oct 17th, 2012 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Doing just that quite fine, thank you very much, now give the same opportunity to the Iraqi and Afghan children, they've done you nothing.
Oct 17th, 2012 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0you make statments that has no proof,
Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0can you prove british forces have killed woman and children.
if you cannot, then you are just inciting more violence against western forces.
@48 - Guzz
Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0You state that I am a murderer?!? Where is your evidence?!? Oh that's right, you haven't got any, and your are desperately (very desperately looking at the quality of your post) trying to justify your position.
The Taliban deliberately give children bombs and tell them to walk into a busy market place, promising to give them sweets or a few dollars. They are the murderers because they do it with deliberate malice knowing that the child is going to die.
The ISAF forces don't deliberately target women and children, and you are a fool if you believe otherwise.
Guzz you are blinding by your hatred of everything British or US that you willing side with the murderers of children.
That's why you are pathetic, because it all or nothing with you.
why you argies hate so much,
Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0after everything we have done for you.
ungratfull or what.
its justa blogga
@54 LEP maybe I should say again. Since 2007, the Taliban have regained their strength and have killed more soldiers in the 5 years to 2012, than before that year. We're losing the war, and more of the Afghan soldiers are joining the Taliban (for different reasons) to fight us. The civilians are turning against us, because of our idiotic counterparts' need to destroy their homes (e.g. burning perfectly legal crops, food stocks, noticed this in several news sites in around 2010-2011). Fact is, we've wasted the past 5 years trying to set up a failing army, and government who has little control outside Kabul.
Oct 17th, 2012 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The brits get the blame for everything nowdays,
Oct 17th, 2012 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0blame it on the brits, they can take,
just a load of anti rubbish.
I would say that the US killed more innocent people in Iraq than Saddam did, which is an enormous feat considering he was the dictator who would torture his own people. I don't think we should even get involved in matters like this anymore. But we don't have a say, do we? Always the government running into wars which we hate. Anyway, I still agree that there are a lot of Argies who hate us, and have nothing better to do but insult those who weren't even involved in it (Guzz is an exception as he's from Uruguay, but still doesn't really have positive opinions towards English people).
Oct 17th, 2012 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you mean british people.
Oct 17th, 2012 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@56 - THEMan
Oct 17th, 2012 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I disagree with your statement. There is a misconception that because Afghanistan hasn't suddenly become a carbon copy of a western society that we have somehow 'failed'. But why should Afghanistan emulate the west?
They have their own rich history and culture, and it is up to them to find a way forwards that will benefit the people of Afghanistan. Advances have been made, and will continue to happen.
The people of Afghanistan want to live in a peaceful society, that while islamic, won't be run by extremists.
The only way that can happen is through the training of their own security forces, which is precisely what ISAF has been doing for years. The Afghan forces are ready and confident that they can do this.
You base all your opinions on the news. Well the problem with the news is that they very rarely ever report on the good things happening in Afghanistan. The hospitals and schools built by the British and other ISAF countries. The improvements made to the infrastructure with more roads, allowing more trade around the country.
You see, news organisations think this is boring, and that viewers will switch off. Oh no, a disaster is far better than a 'feel good' story in regards to ratings.
In a few years time, Afghanistan will be 100% in charge of their own security. They'll do it their way, which might not be the wests way, but they do it with confidence and a sense of national identity, and a new found belief that their country can be a success, and they'll have pride in their country.
That's all the Afghans want, and that is what ISAF has been working to bring about.
To be fair here,
Oct 17th, 2012 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We all may agree to disagree on our governments involvement,
But like everything else in this very violent world we live it,
It’s the military, or the boys and girls on the ground, who end up giving their innocent lives,
So that others may hopefully enjoy their freedom.
Fair comment..
.
@60 LEP I understand that they've built new schools, got women into education and jobs (still limited), and moderately improved the infrastructure. That's not my point.
Oct 17th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My point is that the current Karzai government is corrupt, doesn't have any kind of influence or control over outer Afghanistan, and won't be able to fight the Taliban by themselves after 2015, due to their poor training, discipline, and many of the soldiers being corrupt. Once we leave the country, they will fail in keeping Afghanistan a 'democratic' country, and the country will spiral back into extremists.
As for the infrastructure, they've built dirt roads that are in poor condition, and many of the new schools and hospitals are regularly attacked with bombs (some even destroyed) which means some can't use them.
Anyway, since you mentioned the media, let me make a fair comment. We'll probably never know what exactly happens in Afghanistan with the Army, Taliban or the people due to a lot of exaggeration or propaganda in it, but we all know that they are struggling to gain freedom from the Taliban, and we are ultimately failing in our objective to get rid of them.
@59 nope just English. Read his previous contributions, then you'll see why
@62 -,THEMan
Oct 17th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately that is how it is in Afghanistan. There is always some form of corruption, even when the Taliban were running things.
They are still very loyal to a tribal system, and in elections will vote for whomever their tribal elders tell them to.
As I said in my post, it's not the wests way of doing things, but if it works for them fine. Things will improve slowly, but you have to remember that they are coming back from the brink.
There are no guarantees that they won't descend into civil war once ISAF have left, but the Afghan Taliban have been making conciliatory noises because they're as fed up of the fighting as any other Afghan. The main problem are the foreign Taliban who want to destroy Afghanistan.
I don't believe the people of Afghanistan want that, so they will support their own troops and their own government, as flawed as it may be.
But in time they'll develop a more equitable system. It's not all doom and gloom.
As for our objective in Afghanistan, it was never to get rid of the Taliban, it was to provide security whilst training up the Afghan Army and police. To provide security to allow infrastructure to be built and government systems to be developed and put into place.
No wonder you're all doom and gloom if that's why you thought ISAF was there.
Foreign Taliban... That's the worst piece of homemade excuse I've heard in a long time, earlier posts indicates you can surely find better ones, you are full of them. Meanwhile, in the real world, you are getting your arses kicked by the Afghans, just like the Russians before you.
Oct 17th, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@64 - Guzz
Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your ignorance is astounding. You are a racist. This means that you hate the British, though if your Uruguayan I'm not sure why. You reasons for hating the British seem to be mired in the past which you constantly judge using modern day laws and morals, whilst conveniently ignoring the dubious past histories of South American countries.
Because you hate the British you support anyone who you perceive as being an enemy to the British. Hence why you support the Taliban.
You would hate the British even if all we ever did was wander around the world doing charitable works. You see racist, bigot, fascist.
If you truly knew anything about the situation in Afghanistan you would know that there is a foreign Taliban, made up of people from Iran, Pakistan, Chechneya and other countries.
Are you going to answer my question Guzz? Do you support the Taliban? The same Taliban who tried to murder a 14 year old girl for daring to stand up to them? Do you think of them as 'brave'?
You keep avoiding answering this question. I wonder why?
62 Nice comment!!!
Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So karzai is corrupt, they wont be able to fight the taliban, they will fail in keep Afghanistan democracyand the country will spiral back to extremists.
Dear explain for what reason did you invaded them since now they are worst than before and after 10 years you werent able to give any solution than more violence over more violence????
Leave them alone, you dont give peace and democracy to nobody, its sth that every country has to build on their own way and without your sweet and peaceful help. 10 years and how many died, and you couldnt win the war.
65
Oct 17th, 2012 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brits aren't a race, believe it or not, and don't blame the rest of the Brits for your flaws, I don't.
I will have to repeat myself, and I will write this slowly just so you can keep up. Ready? I don't support the Taliban. Got that? Good.
The Talibans are an islamic religious and political movement that, regardless of you and me disagreeing with it, is a lot less foreign than your dear army. And regardless of what we think, every person has the right and responsibility to fight against an invading nation.
I don't support Taliban ideology, as I condemn the shooting of that brave little girl. But I fully support Afghanistans right to joyfully kick your arses, sadly enough, at their expense.
I got a question for you. What is your opinion on Hanan Saleh Matrud? She was 8 years old when she was shot in the torso. Do you remember her? Why didn't you and your lots media pay as much attention to that murder? Now go gogle her name..
@66 malen the US takes care of that stuff usually. Try speaking to them, not us.
Oct 17th, 2012 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also your grammar is poor, and most of it lacks sense.
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