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Chilean far right push for extradition of Senator murder protected by Argentina
The Inter-American Commission of Human Rights (IACHR) began proceedings this week concerning Argentina’s refusal to extradite Galvarino Apablaza for the 1991 murder of emblematic conservative Senator Jaime Guzmán. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesInstead of pursuing the one that shot thos weasel, mayhap Chile could make justice for all those families that lost a loved obe during the dictatorship this very same weasel helped to implement... By the way, what a great use of bullets, even the manufacturers must be proud...
Oct 18th, 2012 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0CFK could always ask ucuador to help him..
Oct 18th, 2012 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Guzz
Oct 18th, 2012 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who are you, the son of communist members of a murderous 'freedom army' to criticize others?
Pot, kettle, black?
murder was commited 1991 after the dictatorship was over. There is no justification for the protection of a murder and criminal during democracy, whatsoever political colours.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 You should read Guzz's comment carefully. He says he's a Uruguayan. Yet he refers to an elected Chilean representative as a “weasel”. He is on the side of murderers. He revels in it, congratulating the makers of the ammunition. Anybody have any doubts what this toad is like? And he supports CFK the dictator. Is he a ready-made torturer and executioner? A vicious, unprincipled animal? A disgusting animal?
Oct 18th, 2012 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz,
Oct 18th, 2012 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Short of bringing back the dead, what justice would you like to see done?
As Nelson Mandela showed the world, we need to forgive, but not forget in order to mend a split society. We get nowhere by going from reprisals to reprisals. Justice has to be applied proportionally to all. We spent years applying justice to the crimes of the dictatorship. This is a post Pinochet crime and it is only right that justice should be sought. Your statement makes you as bad as those you hate so much.
You weren’t the only ones exiled, you weren’t the only ones to lose.
Why are you (and Think) still entrenched in an imaginary past conflict?
We have moved on and we must continue consolidating our democratic and judiciary advances.
“mayhap Chile could make justice for all those families that lost a loved”
Mayhap we are - today, Chile request extradition of Ray Davis from the US:
http://cl.noticias.yahoo.com/chile-pedir-extradici-n-ex-militar-eeuu-230358866.html
This is the way it should be. Let us see how USA and Argentina hold up at protecting murderers. I have little hope we will get Davis and no expectation that CFK will let justice be done.
Quote: You weren’t the only ones exiled, you weren’t the only ones to lose.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you (and Think) still entrenched in an imaginary past conflict?
We have moved on and we must continue consolidating our democratic and judiciary advances. Unquote
Well written.
@ 6 & 7
Oct 18th, 2012 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because the ideology is so entrenched in them that as Mark Twain (I think) said “you cannot depend upon your eyes if your imagination is out of focus”.
They just cannot see that the world has changed and moved on.
7) Chicureo
Oct 18th, 2012 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well written indeed.....
I would just wish it was the truth.....
The inflexibility, intolerance and hate that exudes from nearly every comment and action from the ”Right” (and that includes you and turnip Condorito) against the democratic and popular governments in Latin America is flabbergasting…..
If somebody has “Moved” in the political and social debate, it is US, the ones with social principles and conscience, not the oligarch groups, staunchly defending their “God Given” privileges against the “Negrada”………
Moreover....., I would just like to point that the disproportion between the “exiled” and the “ones who lost (their lives)” in that ”imaginary past conflict” was, I would estimate, about one in thousand......
This week, down here in Chubut, we finally got justice against the murderers from Trelew….
This week up there in Buenos Aires, they finally arrested L.B. Menendez &Co. for their Tucuman crimes in 74/75.
Turnip Condorito is so right when he says…..:
“We must continue consolidating our democratic and judiciary advances”.
That’s precisely what WE are doing…..
By applying justice…..
Not amnesia…..
8
Oct 18th, 2012 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read your last sentence and have a look at the topic again ;)
Think,
Oct 18th, 2012 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can me a turnip, yet I have never name called you or insulted you.
When I say ”imaginary past conflict” I don’t mean the conflict was imaginary in the past, I mean it is a conflict from the past that today is only imaginary.
The fact you continue to say I am from the “right” shows you don’t understand my position, which I have stated many times before. When I challenge you on your support for Allende that is not me condoning the other side. As Guzz explained just yesterday to Brits on another thread, the fact that he does not like US/NATO in Afghanistan does not mean he condones the Taliban. It is not that hard to understand. The problem as I say, is that you are entrenched so firmly on one side that you cannot see the middle ground and hence, can’t respect my position.
I have always supported the progress of justice and its application to all who have committed crimes be it “your” side or not. I want to see Davis go down and I want to see Apablaza go down. Do you? Both murdered both must be tried.
“the disproportion between the “exiled” and the “ones who lost (their lives)””
I am not sure what you mean by that, are you talking numbers or some moral equivalence, please clarify.
@10 Guzz
Oct 18th, 2012 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My point exactly, in the past he would have been assassinated not extradited.
There would have been no discussion, never mind “due process”.
Things have moved on, just you can’t see it.
@5 Conqueror/Captain PUP
Oct 18th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is my final request....
tell everyone I am your wife...
or
I file for divorce!
lol
I think it's up to those affected when the time has come to move on, and everything point towards putting thode criminals behind bars before moving on. Don't blame the Tupas, as Liber Arce fell long before they took arms.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of all the Tupas, I've met, and that being from Torres, prisoner no1 in Libertad, to Sendic, the front figure, only Rosencoff talks (talked?) about forgiving. Mayhap Huidobro lately. As for the rest, no one. Not a single foot soldier can even speak about forgiveness without remembering what he or she is to forgive.
Guzz,
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is the perverse logic of war isn’t it.
I have always maintained that those in the trenches need to come out and play football like the English and Germans did on Christmas eve in WW1.
We only begin to move forward once the majority of us take the middle ground and justice is applied impartially and devoid of political interference and rancour. That process has been advancing nicely since I returned and it is only those that still seek to fight past conflicts for vengeance not justice who slow down the process.
Ask yourself, should Davis and Apablaza both be extradited and tried for murder?
If you answer “yes” you are with us and progress. If you answer “no”, you are still in a trench.
I say “yes”, if that makes me a turnip, then I am a turnip and proud.
You want to try Davis and Apablaza, in the name of progress and leaving the past behind. In the same breathtake you deny the affected families their right for justice with those very same reasons, progress and leaving the past behind. How very convenient of you...
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(15)...................
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What ”War”?
What freaking”War” are you talking about, turnip Condorito?
It was no other than pure, complete and unadulterated State Terrorism!
An organized massacre against our civilian political and social movements by the Armed Farces of our respective States.
I suppose that you also subscribe to the current ”War” Against Terrorism” that the “Poor Innocent West” is waging against those hordes of “Muslim Terrorists” that “Constantly, Brutally and Relentlessly” attack our ”Christian Way of Life”……………..?
Do you?
Who will be denied justice by trying the murderers of their loved ones?
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think: I have recently defended the results of popular democratic elections in Venezulea, France and Mexico, despite my feelings they were the wrong choice. Amnesty is a difficult theme. Brutal overthrows are as well. There is no easy answer, but I somewhat apologize for demeaning your argument.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's leave this trouble for the moment as I'm opening a wonderful Spanish white wine by Torres to sip with a fresh caught Congrio Rojo.
SALUDOS!
The people, you brute! Put the old guard behind bars before you condemn the people for taling matters in their own hands, according to my constitution, it it my responsability, as Uruguayan, to refuse to take orders from an usurper of power. A dictator is just that, an usurper of power. The people commited no crimes, and before you look at particular cases amongst civilians, give us justice. Tell us where our children are, still many out there, how can we forgive that?
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think,
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We posted simultaneously so I didn’t see your post at 17.
I said “war” twice. Firstly, referring to the perverse logic of war, i.e. when hatred spirals out of control because of crimes perpetrated by the “other side”, I wasn’t referring to a war per say. The second reference to “war” was to WW1.
You didn’t answer my question: should Davis and Apablaza both be extradited and tried for murder?
Do I subscribe to the “war on terror”? No I don’t and your going off topic.
Guzz,
The process of putting the old guard behind bars is well advanced and on going.
Chicureo,
Well said. Enjoy your wine and Congrio. My favorite sea fish, so succulent.
Is it? We have many names of known torturers and murderers, kidnappers and common abusers of human life that needs to be tried, I'm quite sure the list is long in Chile as well...
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes and I support that.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then we agree, as for this case, he should be tried as the last one, as it happened after the other ones.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz, jajaja very good. I will agree with you on that then.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And to help Chicureo enjoy his meal...
En el mar tormentoso de Chile vive el rosado congrio,
gigante anguila de nevada carne.
Y en las ollas chilenas,
en la costa,
nació el caldillo grávido y suculento,
provechoso.
Lleven a la cocina el congrio desollado,
su piel manchada cede como un guante y al descubierto queda entonces
el racimo del mar,
el congrio tierno reluce ya desnudo,
preparado para nuestro apetito.
Ahora recoges ajos,
acaricia primero ese marfil precioso,
huele su fragancia iracunda,
entonces deja el ajo picado caer con la cebolla y el tomate hasta que la cebolla tenga color de oro.
Mientras tanto se cuecen con el vapor los regios camarones marinos y cuando ya llegaron a su punto,
cuando cuajó el sabor en una salsa formada por el jugo del océano y por el agua clara que desprendió la luz de la cebolla,
entonces
que entre el congrio y se sumerja en gloria,
que en la olla se aceite,
se contraiga y se impregne.
Ya sólo es necesario dejar en el manjar caer la crema como una rosa espesa,
y al fuego lentamente entregar el tesoro hasta que en el caldillo se calienten las esencias de Chile,
y a la mesa lleguen recién casados los sabores del mar y de la tierra para que en ese plato tú conozcas el cielo.
P.Neruda
it's nothing new that Argentina harbours criminals, nazis and the like, i am sure they will never change.
Oct 18th, 2012 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Condorito,
Oct 19th, 2012 - 02:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0You and I have an appreciation of truly good things and I recognize you have the common sense that is very lacking by many that post here. “Guzz” for example, well... is not the sharpest knife in the kitchen drawer...
Conversely, Think has qualities that cannot be ignored and although his political views are questionable, he sometimes has a very valid point of view.
Which brings me to your wonderful after dinner offering of one of Neruda's many great treasures. Thank you for making my feast perfectly complete. (btw: Normally I drink Chilean wine, but what I had was very special.)
When I was a boy, I discovered from my professor that my father's favorite poet was a “Communist” which I immediately informed my strongly conservative parents. My father smiled and recited a rather long list of intellectuals who belonged to the extreme left he admired, which left me speechless. He then wisely suggested that I not close my eyes and ears because of political beliefs. He drew the exception to violence and despite supporting the right, he was terribly distressed with the harsh aftermath. You had to live through it to understand the complicated anger at the time. Both sides were very affected. People were murdered, and the most responsible should be brought to justice, but also with compassion. There is a reason why civilized societies consider using amnesty.
Saludos!
Tell that to Aida, they stole her child after she gave birth under the supervision of the police you offer amnesty. She never got to caress her baby, feed it or even give it a name. Seems it's easy for to to forgive and forhet in the name of other people...
Oct 19th, 2012 - 08:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0See what I mean about him not being the “sharpest knife in the kitchen drawer”?
Oct 19th, 2012 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think if we're talking about injustice, we should equally focus to those on the left as well...
Chicureo,
Oct 19th, 2012 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for your post. Your father was clearly very wise.
Leaving these polarizing issues behind and looking to what unites us....here in my home town, in La Recova, on the second floor in the north-west corner there is a picada called “Tres As” (forgive me if I have already mentioned this). Their speciality is “Congrio Pirata” which comprises a large congrio fillet (cut longitudinally, not medallion), placed in a deep, flat, buttered Pomaire dish. Ostiones and camarones are piled on to the fillet and a second congrio fillet placed on top. The top fillet is covered with sliced cheese and the whole assembly doused in white wine, finely sliced red onion, fresh chopped cilantro, covered with fitting pomaire top and baked in the oven. The result....any words other than the last line of Pablo’s ode would be an injustice.
“y a la mesa lleguen recién casados los sabores del mar y de la tierra para que en ese plato tú conozcas el cielo.”
Saludos.
So when are you two going to get married and write culinarybooks?
Oct 19th, 2012 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 031 lol, no plans for either thanks.
Oct 19th, 2012 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My wife is very jealous...
Oct 19th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The dish however is very tempting...
We have NO really good seafood places here in Chicureo or Colina, but fresh fish can be had.
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