MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine lawmakers press Falklands’ issue on UK peers at Parliamentary Union
Argentine lawmakers met with their UK peers and called for an end to unilateral hydrocarbons explorations in Falkland Islands waters and for an end to military exercises in the South Atlantic. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSo the delusional 'lawmakers' of AG meet their match with the equally corrupt MPs and ‘Lords’ of the UK!
Oct 25th, 2012 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I bet the race to out bid each other in the YOU MUST DO AS WE SAY race was a close run thing.
No doubt it was agreed to re-run it all next year and don’t forget those vital UN resolutions!
Bunch of cnuts, the lot of them.
And indeed, the South Atlantic is linked to the Mid Atlantic where Brazil is doing lots of offshore oil exploitation. What does Argentina say about that? Filmus' tactics appear to be a thinly-disguised attempt to impair the Falkland Islands' community approach to sustainable development and there is no reason to believe that the excellent environmental safe-guards that the Falkland Islands now have in place could be improved by any Argentine interference.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just a coincidence that this meeting of the 127th IPU is in Canada - known for its support of Falkland Islands's self-determination, and one of the IPU meeting topics is Peak Oil - so lots of interest in supporting Falkland Islands's offshore oil exploration.
IPU website: http://www.ipu2012uip.ca/welcome/
Yawn and as always we ignore them and the Falklands stay British forever. The end oh and Argentina didn't live happily ever after.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 01Chris r I would hardly say the Lords are corrupt . Probably the House of Lords is one of the most fair Upper Chamber in the world . They actually study laws passed by the Commons , with little party loyalty , and make sensible suggestions and corrections . And they are not “ cunts ” you stupid man .
Oct 25th, 2012 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hmmm, interesting there was no response from the British lawmakers to the Argentines calling on this and calling on that, or were they too busy laughing. It's got nothing to do with either of them. All the decisions lie with the Falkland Islanders and absolutely no one else.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine Lawmakers - please ask yourselves these questions:
Oct 25th, 2012 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who tore up an International Agreement on Hydrocarbons exploration and development in the area?
Who in 1982 - in the middle of peacefull talks and negotiations including Sovereigny - suddenly used military force and invaded?
Good move brits, surprising but smart move.... this is the path Arg-uk need to walk for find a solution in mutual benefit and with justice.....another way is not possible, well done.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7
Oct 25th, 2012 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The solution will be decided in March 2013, the Falklanders will have a democratic vote on their future and the decision will be final. The solution is not in the hands if anyone but the Islanders, get that through your thick head! The only way the Argentines could possibly ever see their flag raised on the Islands is to take them by force, but they are impotent in that regard so they just need to give it up basically.
When are the argentines going to get it in their heads that the issues they have brought up...again,that any discussions MUST include the Oakland Islanders and only if they want such discussions. So far the answer to that is No No No.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 02:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0you people just have never been in Argentina, you don't know them. I'll assure you, that it doesn't matter if the God and the holy ghost and punch of angels would lands to the face of Earth to tell the argies: “the Falklands are British and shall always remain Britishh..”
Oct 25th, 2012 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0they'd still shout: Las Islas malvinas son Argentinas!!
Boring again CFK.get back to blowing hugo.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Great restaurants and nightclubs in either Montreal or Quebec City.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice little holiday junket for them, and nothing is even expected to be resolved. They have nothing to do with it.
The Falklanders will establish their identity with the UN in 2013.
“for an end to military exercises in the South Atlantic.”
Oct 25th, 2012 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0But only unilaterally, Argentina are allowed to have military exercises in the South Atlantic, no one else even if their ships break down.
The fact that British ships are no actual threat to Argentina unless the Falklands/UK ships are attacked is not understood by berks like filmus.
“The Argentine delegation also called on their British peers to abide the different UN General Assembly and Decolonisation committee resolutions calling for both countries to sit and discuss the conflict and reach a peaceful solution.”
Were the peers (unelected) savy enough to refer the Argentines to the UN Charter which they avoid like the plague.
Filmus and peers, wake up and smell the coffee, democracy is alive in the FI and the referendum in 2013 is fast approaching, its what the Islanders, the people BORN on the Islands, think what matters.
9 Oakland should read Falkland , sorry peeps.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 04:25 am - Link - Report abuse 014 Dr. Jeorbbels
Oct 25th, 2012 - 04:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you using predictive text on a mobile?
The only reason the bare unilateral is because the Argie regime tore up the previous agreement and the only reason the Argies aren't drilling themselves is that they can't find anyone stupid enough to invest in KFC's cleptocracy.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ah, the old smoke and mirrors approach.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0You see CFK wants to distract the Argentine population from the fact that she's yielded the ARA Libertad to the 'vulture' fund thus completely contradicting what she said, so she brings out the same old tired 'Falklands' distraction.
This distraction seems to be working less and less with the population of Argentina, as they wake up and smell the coffee. They can see a collapse bigger than 2001 on the horizon, which will be worse for them as this time the government won't be defaulting on international loans, but on money 'borrowed' from their pension funds and the central bank.
It's all a matter of time, but perhaps the ARA Libertad incident has made them realise that if the Government can pay a meagre US$20 million then they really are in trouble.
I know the usual trolls will be along soon stating principles and pride as the reasons for not paying, but thy should remember tht 'pride comes before a fall' and this time there is no stretch in the system like in 2001, nowhere for the ordinary Argentine citizen to sequester their money in dollars, because of the governments oppressive and excessive monetary restrictions.
I presume they are also calling for Argentina to stop all offshore oil activities as well.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Technology/2012/08/01/Argentina-to-drill-for-oil-near-Falklands/UPI-41201343819518/
18 agent999
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0It always baffles me that Argentina never even bothers to try to create a consistent argument in their dealings with the rest of the world. I assume this is one reason why CFK never takes questions from the press. It's the only way to do what she does without looking totally stupid.
“If you are concerned about environmental damage caused by British drilling then why are you authorising the same actions in your own waters?”
How could she answer that? Claim Argentina has much greater expertise?
Argentina did not pull out of hydrocarbon talks because of the issue of oil exploration and its effect on the eco-system, no it pulled out as it saw that the talks were not a platform to acquire sovereignty.Only trecently as agent999 points out, CFKs government is looking for prospecting partners for that neck of the woods. Argentina is always pontificating.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0The military activities are necessary when a belligerent neighbour maintains its abuse stance. Falklanders have everyright to defend themselves with help from Britain.
I hope the argentine delegation were shown every courtesy before being shown the door.
We don't want you, Daniel & we're not “sitting & talking” about our sovereignty.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Get lost, Argentina, you have no business here.
Keep moving, islanders. You deserve a brilliant future. I hope some day my compatriots accept the facts that Falkland do not belong to us. This day perhaps Falkland and Argentina could start working together.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is it not true that water, that wet cold and friendly water people that [wave] at you, [actually moves,,,,,
Oct 25th, 2012 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thus what is here today, is there tomorrow,
So if the south Atlantic is connected to the mid Atlantic and north Atlantic,
And thus through to Panama Canal, is thus connected to the pacific, and thus connected to the Indian ocean, the Suez canal and the medterainien sea, and the ice blocks of the Antarctic, [have I missed any]
Then technically if you demand and get a ban of all military ships, and civil ships and commercial ships [health n safety]
Then the whole planet would be without ships, big ships little ships fishing boats,
And of course Argentinean rowing boats.
Let’s stop it here, because the Argies were already confused at the pacific ocean.
Please Argies if you going to demand anything,
It should in all fairness, to demand and get your own silence, and give the rest of the planet a break.
Lol chuckle chickle chacle. Lol.
.
Argentina nice people unfrotunatly there goverment makes the Uk goverment look competant most od our mediocre chancers would be lauded as men of vision in argentina :(
Oct 25th, 2012 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Perhaps you could explain about “mutual benefit and with justice”. Justice has already been served. The territory belongs to Britain and the Falkland Islanders. As for “mutual benefit”, to whom? There used to be a hydrocarbons agreement between the Falklands and argieland. Some dumb argie had a hissy fit, tore up the agreement and walked out. You had your chance. You blew it. Forget it!
Oct 25th, 2012 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10 It doesn't matter whether every argie has “las malvinas argentinas” engraved on his, her or its heart. They can get lost. Britain didn't lose 255 British servicemen and 3 Falkland Islanders only to let the Islanders down 30 years later.
@22 Pity it won't be in your lifetime, eh, Rob!
For argies everywhere: You are neither needed or wanted on the Falkland Islands. Or in any of the waters thereabouts. The same goes for South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. You had 74 days. That's your lot. Want more? Forget it. Just think of the money you could save by abandoning those compulsory brainwashing sessions in your schools. Here's another tip. Quit calling the Falkland Islands by that silly name. Don't know about others, but it puts my back up every time it's used. It just increases the hate factor.
25@ yeah, i know..they can draw their own maps if they like and place
Oct 25th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Las Islas Malvinas next to 'Never-Never-Land' and 'Atlantis'
The article is strangely imbalanced.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Much about Argentinian demands, something about who and what comprised the British team, and absolutely nothing about what British respones were to the Argentinian requests.
Well, at least the Argentinians can no longer claim that there have been no meetings between them and the British. The UN will be well satisfied now.
@27 British respones were to the Argentinian requests:
Oct 25th, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Whether right or wrong we´ve been controlling the islands for 180 years and, although in decline, we´re still a colonial power. We´ll do whatever we want in the islands because we can. There´s nothing you can do with your old barely floating ships. Remember we have nuclear weapons. There´s no moral in politics, but we have the ”self-determination“ parody to justify our colonial control in the XXIst century. There´s nothing you can do but to go and cry with mummy”.
They call it the British Spirit.
As opposed to your colonial asperations?
Oct 25th, 2012 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28 -Maldives
Oct 25th, 2012 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the right to self determination is a parody to you? A joke!
Well it isn't to billions of people around the world.
The people of the Falklands have been there longer than the republic of Argentina has existed.
Face it, if Argentina had a valid sovereignty claim you would've taken it to the International Court of Justice years ago. But you don't so you lie, you invaded (and lost) and now you cry, beg and lie (again) to the international community who just laugh at how pathetic your government make your country look.
Face it, next year the world will be in no doubt as to the wishes of the only people on the planet who's views matter, in regards to the Falklands, and that are the wishes of the people whose land it is - the Falkland Islanders.
Face it, Argentina will never 'get' the Falklands, and instead of developing your own country's potential, you will cry, whine and lament on the 'malvinas' myth.
'The government today gave the “enemy” (the United Kingdom and / or the vulture funds) its most symbolic one vessel without a single shot fired.'
Oct 25th, 2012 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://observadorglobal.com/al-dia/breve-analisis-de-la-situacion-de-la-fragata-libertad-41445
The Ushuaia governor said “did not understand” the sense of questioning the nationality of the Falklands Argentina
http://observadorglobal.com/al-dia/breve-analisis-de-la-situacion-de-la-fragata-libertad-41445
@ LEPRcon
Oct 25th, 2012 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Self determination for british people living in argentine soil is what´s a parody, for billions of people around the world.
Face it, if Argentina didn´t have a valid sovereignty claim it wouldn´t have the UN recotgnizing the sovereignty issue and the UN would be understanding that this issue sould be resolved by the inhabitants (instead of what it´s been actualy doing: urge the TWO parties in question to solve the dispute of the special and particular COLONIAL situation).
Face it, if the international community understood the UK has unquestionable rights over the islands, then it wouldn´t be asking the UK to negotiate. Unforunately for you, the intenrational community knows and has suffered the British ways.
Face it, next year the world will be laughing at all the time and money you have spent on this referendum thay will not tell anything everybody already knows about the irrelevant wishes of the islanders.
Face it, the UK will eventually have to cede.
#32 Islas Malvinas
Oct 25th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly .....The main body from UN that analyze colonial situations and where and when SELF-DETERMINATION right could apply follow the guides and rules from the Charter is c-24 Comitee of descolonization.
DOES Inhabitants of those islands have the right of self-determination or not ? im so bored of read all the time that quuestion.....
WHAT UNITED NATIONS SAY ABOUT IT ???????
“The chair of the UN Decolonisation Committee .............described the UK announcement of a referendum in the Malvinas Islands as a “political ploy”, insisting that the Falkland Islanders can not appeal to the right of self determination they claim, because in the Malvinas case “there is a principle of territorial integrity” from Argentina which is above other considerations and the UK is the “occupying power” since 1833.”
SO....UN recognise the dispute and side with Argentina....because of that made 40 resolutions supporting their position OF NEGOTIATION BETWEEN 2 PARTIES....... FACT
What part is difficult to understand ??
en.mercopress.com/2012/06/16/c24-chair-calls-falklands-referendum-political-ploy-praises-argentine-president
@32 Islas Manifoldevils
Oct 25th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Face it, next year the world will be laughing at all the time and money you have spent on this referendum thay will not tell anything everybody already knows about the irrelevant wishes of the islanders.”
Funny how the La Campora trolls are constantly spending great effort to discourage and discredit this referendum.
Your current fallacious arguments @32 will be moot, once the Falklanders identify themselves to the UN as an autonomous, sovereign, entity, and the wishes of those inhabitants.
The UN will have to recognise their Self-Determination, as it an underlying core value of the UN.
At that point, Argentina can chose to maintain their aggressions, but they won't be able to justify them to the UN or the world community.
32 Islas Malvinas (#) Oct 25th, 2012 - 04:46 pm & 33 so_far (#) Oct 25th, 2012 - 05:12 pm
Oct 25th, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As a matter of a fact the UN recognizes the UK as having de facto sovereignty over the Islands, that is why UK is recognized as the “Administrating Power”!!!!!!!!
33 so_far & 32 Islas Malvinas
Oct 25th, 2012 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can I just ask you what your plan is for the Falkland Islanders? OK, so you've decided we have no right to self determination. What does that mean exactly? How do you see this panning out, in a practical sense?
Are we talking about martial law? Prison camps? What are you going to do to me whan I meet you at the airstrip with a loaded shotgun? How are you planning to deal with delegations of Falkland Islanders turning up at the UN asking for their independence? We would surely get it; after all, we have nothing in common with you, history, culture, language, nothing. The UN is very clear about our rights not to be dominated or subjugated by a hostile foreign power.
I don't think you've though this through properly.
And what do you think will happen if you get your negotiations with Britain? What do you think they will say?
What would you say if Falkland Islanders wanted to become part of Argentina?
@33 - so_far
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UN recognised there was a dispute and issued a resolution that the UK and Argentina should talk taking into account the wishes of the inhabitants of the Islands.
So the UK and Argentina talked. Argentina decided to stop talking and illegally invaded the islands, threaten to murder the population and ignoring a legally binding UNSC resolution to remove your forces.
Since it was Argentina who were the belligerent party it absolved the UK of talking to Argentina. Face it YOU broke the resolutions.
Face it. YOU'VE had 30 years to show the Islanders the a democratic Argentina was different than the Junta. 30 years to build bridges of friendship and trust.
So what does Argentina do? YOU threaten, bully, attempt to intimidate and isolate the Islanders. Instead of burning bridges Argentina seems determined to burn them completely.
The UN will NEVER sanction Argentina gaining sovereignty of the Islands unless the Islanders wish them to.
And since you're all busy burning bridges, that's never going to happen.
Every day that goes by strengthens the Islanders rights to their own land, and weakens Argentina's increasingly ridiculous and desperate claims.
Tick tock, tick tock. The Argentine sovereignty claim (such as it was) is on the terminal list. Come March 2013 it will have flat lined with a do not resuscitate order on it.
Perhaps if you actually started solving the problems of your own country, instead of looking on someone else's with envy, you all might become happier people.
# 36 Monty, many questions, let me try to answer...
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Q: “…so you've decided we have no right to self determination”
A: United Nation decided it and international comunity …...not Argentina.
Q: “How are you planning to deal with delegations of Falkland Islanders turning up at the UN asking for their independence?”
A: is not necessary go to UN for that....just ask that to Argentina the legal and real owner of Malvinas, any government will respect if the population want to be independient....is your right of course, perhaps could ask few logical conditions, but is totally possible. The only one problem here is UK not you lot.
Q: “we have nothing in common with you, history, culture, language, nothing.”
A: Im not so sure about that, Patagonia is full of islanders families and friends, anyway is your decision, would be a pitty if you don´t want anything with the mainland with a huge things in common.
Q: “The UN is very clear about our rights not to be dominated or subjugated by a hostile foreign power.”
A: Yes it is clear….the only problem is that nobody was, are or will dominate, subjugated, etc….neither hostile, please, Argentina is a generous country, half a millon of brits living here without problem. Don´t be ungrateful.
Q: And what do you think will happen if you get your negotiations with Britain? What do you think they will say?
A: Let´s the people with expertise in negotiation made their job…is up to them. My feeling is all is possible if you´re smart enough and respect the law and the justice.
Q: Are we talking about martial law? Prison camps? What are you going to do to me when I meet you at the airstrip with a loaded shotgun?
A: please Monty….later you offend yourself when somebody wonder about Oxford education
Q: What would you say if Falkland Islanders wanted to become part of Argentina?
A: Argentina already receive 20 millions of foreigners….do you think 2500 souls could make any difference ??
welcome home…
@35 Simon What´s your point? Try to tell me something new.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Monty
Our plan for the Falkland Islanders is to negotiate with the UK what to do with them after the sovereignty handover, keeping in mind their interests. The situation of the islanders is only a consequence of British imperialism. We only want the islands back.
I´ve not decided you have no right to self determination. The UN has.
Martial law? Prison camps? Ha, ha...
As per the Argentine Constitution, Argentina seeks to recover the islands, respetcting the way of life of the inhabitants.
So... whatever the outcome will be... it´ll be MUCH better than that one found by Chagossians. :)
Independence? You´ll hardly get recognition. Remember that for the continent you´re located at, you´re argentine territory. Full Stop.
The UN has cleary explained the Malvinas is a particular situation precisely because there´s no population “dominated or subjugated by a hostile foreign power” since the power in control has populated the islands after expelling the argentine. Therefore the attacked population here is the argentine.
We have thought about this properly and the UK knew about it during the negotiations about sovereingty that took place before the war.
If we get the negotiations with Britain we think they´ll say: dammit! we´re not a colonial power anymore... we´re in decline... we can´t afford it anymore... we´ll have to give it back to you now.
If islanders wanted to become part of Argentina nothing we wouldn´t say anything cos they already are.
No doubt the British delegation told them where to go, there is no point even discussing those issues.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands are not located on any continent, am I correct or am I wrong? I was under the impression they were a group of Islands located in the South Atlantic.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes rc.....you totally right, and UK is neither attached or located in Europe continent, the British islands are only floating in North Atlantic...everybody knows that.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
I really love brits...i do.
@41 You are wrong. As wrong as you would if you thought the UK, Ireland, Iceland and Cyprus are not in Europe. As wrong as if you thought Madagastar is not in Africa. As wrong as if you thought Cuba, Jamaica and the Dominican Republic are not in America. As wrong as if you though Sri Lanka and Japan are not in Asia. Did you know Oceania is a continent made of many many many islands?
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 038 so_far
Oct 25th, 2012 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent response so_far
The committee considers UN decolonization to the Falkland Islands as a colony. Of the 16 cases of colonialism in the world, 10 are for the UK they are: Anguilla, Bermuda, Gibraltar, the Falkland Islands, Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Monserrat Island, Pitcairn Island and St. Helena Island.
Just look at any web page concerning the decolonization committee of United Nations refers to are a colony.
Besides the UN resolutions are referred to a colony.
See 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39/6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No self-determination. It is a territory to colonize.
Just look at any web page concerning the decolonization committee of United Nations refers to are a colony. Example Wikipedia.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comit% C3% C3% B3n A9_de_Descolonizaci%
32 Islas Malvinas 38 so_far
Oct 25th, 2012 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought as much. You haven't thought it through.
Falkland Islanders would not accept Argentine rule. You would have to use force. How would the UN view that?
That's because our 'way of life' is British, and our 'interests' are best served by staying that way. With a view, perhaps, to becoming independent one day. If you want to respect our way of life and our interests, you should leave us alone.
But you don't. You are only interested in yourselves.
You are still missing the essential problem; if you take over the Falklands, we will be dominated and subjugated by a foreign power. You can't just keep parroting the same tired old rubbish about us being a part of Argentina and expect the problem to go away.
And I'm still waiting for you to show us all where, precisely, the UN 'sides with Argentina' and says that the Falkland Islanders do not have the right to determine their own future. And while you're at it you can tell us all where it says that 'decolonisation' means taking a territory away from one coloniser and handing it over to another one, because that's what you would be.
As for the Chagossians, I can't tell whether your solution is 'much much better', because you haven't said what it is.
@ so_far & lslas M,
Oct 25th, 2012 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Smooth & pretty words, boys, but we're having none of it.
We do not trust you & we do not want you.
You both seem to be under the wrong impression that these lslands somehow belong to you.
No, señors, they do not. They are ours, always have been & always will be.
Not your land at all. So just go away.
Oh yes, forgot to mention, we will not talk to you about the sovereignty of OUR country.
But have a nice weekend anyway.
@45 Monty
Oct 25th, 2012 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When a deal is achieved and argentine sovereignty rights recognized by the UK, any islander non acceptance will have to deal with argentine police and justice.
Your British way of life is not in question nor menaced. You can stay British. Your nationality is not important to Argentina. Argentina can´t leave alone because you´re in Argentina. Argentina does not care about you any more or less than it does care for any other people living in Argentina. Go find out how many British live happyly in Argentina.
The foreign power is the UK. When Argentina takes over the Falklands, you won´t be dominated nor subjugated by a foreign power but by the power with rights over the islands. This problem is not our problem. This is UK´s problem, the UK caused this problem.
The UN sides with Argentina when it says that the Falkland issue is a special and particular COLONIAL situation in which TWO parties should resolve a SOVEREIGNTY dispute. No resolution regarding this question evers mention self-determination. It only mentions “interests”. Never “wishes”, nevermind self-determination.
UK: No dispute. It´s british.
Argentina: There´s a dispute.
UN: There´s a dispute. (What side is this?)
UK: Self-determination
Arg: No self-determination but territorial integrity.
UN: TWO parties to solve the dispute. No third parties. (What side is this?)
'Decolonisation' in the Malvinas question means that the colonizing power should give up its control over the colonial territories and give them back t othe people with reights over it: the argentine.
The issue of the population of the colonizing power on the colonized territories is what makes the Malvinas issue particular and special.
As for Chagossians, you know any possible solution is better than being expelled. And you know that´s not an option here.
Any other question?
# 47 Correct Islas Malvinas, anyway explaining this to some sprcial brits make me feel lile explaning to Jimmy Savile that child abuser attitude isnt right....
Oct 25th, 2012 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really , the whole discussion is now sterile . With one warship and two submarines in the area one can safely claim that the Falklands are British ! By the way what happened to the normally outspoken Foreign Minister ? No shouting about the visit planned by the Duke of Kent ?
Oct 25th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 049 burn1938 wise words sum up perfectly what i meant in post 47
Oct 25th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remaining non-self-governing territories must have full freedom of choice, Ban Ki-moon says
Oct 25th, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.speroforum.com/a/33140/Remaining-nonselfgoverning-territories-must-have-full-freedom-of-choice-Ban-says
@47
Oct 25th, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“No resolution regarding this question evers mention self-determination”
Neither do any of the resolutions say that self-determination does not apply, and self-determination in the UN Charter which underwrites UN policy.
@39
“We only want the islands back.”
The British claim goes back a lot further than Argentina's formation in 1853.
Still waiting for a specific reference to where the UN says that self determination definatley does not apply to the Falkland Islanders.
Argentina has only owned the islands once and that was illegal, for just under three months in 1982.
@47 Falkland Islands : Your British way of life is not in question nor menaced. You can stay British. Your nationality is not important to Argentina.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So how come you issue DNI's ( ID cards ) to Falkland islanders in absentia ?
How come the argentine press refers openly to Britain as the enemy when there isn't even a war on ? How is that meant to reassure the population of the islands ?
Anyway , you cannot even get your ship back , so the Falkland Islanders haven't got a lot to fear from you .
Mind out for buitres now , they're everywhere
47 Islas Malvinas
Oct 25th, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I couldn't care less how many British people live in Argentina. They chose to live there. We didn't.
I've considered your offer carefully, the Argentine police and justice etc, and I think I'm going to have to say no, thanks.
Your argument has absolutely no substance whatsoever. I can't see anything in what you say than 'we will get the Falklands because we think we should have them'.
I asked for evidence and references and you haven't provided any. I want to know where it says that the UN takes your side and that the Falkland Islanders have no right to determine their own future. Evidence please.All I can find are references to the Falkland Islands as one of 16 territories yet to exercise their right to self determination and become decolonised.
Decolonisation is never going to mean handing the Falklands over to you. You weren't the original inhabitants here either. You had four men and a dog here for five minutes nearly two hundred years ago. You have no 'rights' here at all. We do. This is our home.
And don't tell us that living under Argentine rule is better than being expelled. You are not qualified to make that judgement.
@ Monty
Oct 25th, 2012 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly. You didn`t chose to live in Argentina. The UK made you live there and believe that territory is British. Well, that`s what I mean that is UK`s problem. Not ours. Sooner or later you`ll have to face you`re in argentine soil.
The argentine police and justice I mentiones was not an offer. You´ll have to deal with it, or leave.
The UN does not say the islanders have no right to self-determination. The UN has never ever even though about self-determination when thinking of the islanders. That`s the point. For evidence, you can go an read any of the multiple resolutions regarding Malvinas and you`ll see: No self-determination anywhere. Only TWO parties (UK + Argentina). Only “interests” (no whishes).
Again (how many times do I have to repeat?) Malvinas is a PARTICULAR and SPECIAL colonial situation, where there`s a SOVEREIGNTY DISPUTE between TWO parties. Therefore the Malvinas question will be resolved when and ONLY when the TWO partied had reached an agreement on the issue.
Whether you like that agreement or not, it irrelevant.
Argentine and UK foreign affairs are not meant to please 2500 islanders.
I`m terribly sorry, but we the UK and the UN does not care about your opinion.
We had 4 men. Yeah. Sure.
I`m more than qualified to tell you that letting people live in their homes is much better than being expelled.
55 Islas Malvinas
Oct 25th, 2012 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the contrary. The UK government has stated on numerous occasions that the wishes of the Falkland Islanders are of paramount importance, and that there will be no change unless Islanders wish it. I can provide references for this if you wish.
Oh and something doesn't become true just because you write it in capital letters.Where is your evidence? It would be a pretty big thing for the UN to go against its own charter and deny us the right to determine our future. It must be written down somewhere. I doubt they felt it necessary to point out to you that all people are entitled to basic human rights.
You are not qualified to tell me a single thing. I would never presume to speak for anyone else, but personally, I'd rather be expelled that have you in a position to 'let me live' in my own home.
happily, it's never going to happen. You may deal with this in any way that you choose.
Hope this helps.
Islas Malvinas,
Oct 25th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK does care about the islanders, that's why Argentina doesn't have the islands.
What makes you think that the UK will cede anything to you or do any deal with you when they have made it clear to the world that they won't?
If the islanders won't accept that their home is Argentine, what do you propose to do about it? You have no authority, juristiction or presence there.
“The UK government has stated on numerous occasions that the wishes of the Falkland Islanders are of paramount importance”.
Oct 25th, 2012 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don`t trust that. It`s more like behind this benevolent disguise hide other interests that nothing have to do with the islanders wishes.
They´re using “self-determination” because they know you don`t want any change, and they want any change. The day they decide it`s convenient to leaseback, your wishes will be forgotten.
The UN Charter is not about the Falkland Islands. The resolutions regarding the Falkland Islands are and they keep in mind the parcitularity of this population.
If you wanted to be expelled you should have moved to Chagos Islands before the 1960`s and you dreams would have came true. Of course you could have also lived in the islands when UK arrived in 1833.
We are letting you leave in your own home. That´s already happening. Cos everybody does. No one wants you to leave.
It interesting debating with you, Monty.
No matter what we say, how we put it, they know not, how to understand,
Oct 25th, 2012 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sticks and stones sticks and stones,
Unless you are willing to back it up,
You will always be known as gnomes..
[That’s Argies gnomes]
.
Islas Malvinas,
Oct 26th, 2012 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why should the UK undertake any kind of handover, leaseback, negotiation or concession of power to Argentina? What do you propose to do if they don't?
There are no legally binding UN resolutions which say a handover must take place.
So what is there to talk about?
Islas Malvinas - here we go again 1833 and explusions!! Yes the militia were - and their family members. Nobody else was - and that is documented in the National Archives in Buenos Aires - please take a look!
Oct 26th, 2012 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Would you like me to list the names of those who were explelled, the 4 who chose to leave, and all those who chose to stay - and STAYED? One of them even later married an early English settler - and that bloodline still flows in the islands today.
OH - and on the subject of talks and discussions - When is the Arg Govt going to respond to the formal offer from the Falkland Islands elected Govt to sit and talk with the Arg Govt about a whole range of issues like communications, fisheries etc etc? The offer was made in writing several months ago to your Ambassador in London to send on to her Govt in Buenos Aires.
58 Islas Malvinas
Oct 26th, 2012 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can choose to believe that the UK government is lying to us if it makes you feel better.
I choose to believe otherwise, and I have had a lot more to do with them than you ever will have.
''The UN Charter is not about the Falkland Islands'' ??? Really? So all those places where it says 'all people' it actually means 'all people apart from Falkland Islanders' ??? Is that all of the charter or just the bits that are inconvenient for you? There isn't anything particular about our population that is any different to dozens of other former colonies.
As for being 'expelled', you are conveniently forgetting that people have been expelled from their homes in the Falkland Islands within living memory, by you. No need to go as far as the Chagos Islands.
I suggest to the Falklanders to continue with your oil exploration and also continue with the military exercises. Don't pay any attention to the RG lawmakers, they are full of shit. They are bad lawmakers in their own country any ways.
Oct 26th, 2012 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Sooner or later you`ll have to face you`re in argentine soil.”
Oct 26th, 2012 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say that like it's a statement of fact. Argentine claims are weak at best and even if they were stronger I cannot see the UN forcing the people of the Falklands to submit to Argentine rule after 179 years of peaceful habitation.
@38 Q: “…so you've decided we have no right to self determination”
A: United Nation decided it and international comunity …...not Argentina.
Show me the UN document that says that we do not have the right to self determination.
Islas Mal,
Oct 26th, 2012 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are so full of it.
This is not Argentine soil, never was & never will be.
Your writ doesn't run here & you have no “rights”here either.
You won't expel us & you won't get our country.
So sorry for you.
And l'm sure that this will help.
@58
Oct 26th, 2012 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The UN Charter is not about the Falkland Islands”
yes it is because evryone is included that's why it siays “ All peoples”, not all peoples except the Falkland Islanders.
Rather than your opinionated crap, post a link that refers to where the UN specifically states that the Falkland Islanders DO NOT have the right to self-determination.
You can't because there is no definitive statement that says self determination applies to everyone in the world except for the people of the Falklands.
http://www.falklandshistory.org
Oct 26th, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0rather than you argies bragging on here,
Oct 26th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0would you not do better, to get your little boat back first.
@68
Oct 26th, 2012 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now they have lost a nuclear rowing boat!
Whan did that happen?
LOLs
66 Pete Bog
Oct 26th, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why insult? Have you finished your arguments? You can not express their ideas without insulting stop.
The UN Resolution 2065 clearly states the word “interest” and “Sovereignty”. Also read the resolutions committee of UN decolonization and subsequent resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39/6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40) 1,987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No self. It is a territory to colonize. When talking to decolonize, in the case of the Falkland Islands, the decolonization committee talks about sovereignty and interests. He speaks of the principle of territorial integrity.
The specificity of the Malvinas is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Therefore, the possibility remains of the principle of self-determination, as its exercise by the islanders, cause the “disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In this regard it should be noted that Resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. ”
@ 70 Raul
Oct 26th, 2012 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The specificity of the Malvinas is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833”
1. Spain took all of Spanish America from the indigenous population by force in the 16th century.
2. All of Spanish America took the Spanish property by force in the early 19th century.
Are you about to hand Spanish America back to Spain, to be handed back to the descendents of the indigenous population who haven't been butchered by the Spaniards and later the Argentinians?
“expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina.”
3. The original population was French (1764).
4. Give us the names of what you call the original population who were expelled.
As has been shown many times on the Mercopress forum, using official Argentine documents, only the garrison, their families and the prisoners from the penal colony were expelled, as anyone would do when they find foreign military and prisoners on their land.
Of the civilians only four left. Two from Banda Oriental (now Uruguay) and two who, judged by their names, were Brasilians. ALL the other civilians stayed on the Falkland Islands under British rule.
Lista de la tropa, sus familias y peones de la isla de Malvinas from Pinedo's logbook as recorded during his trial in 1833:
Printed in the Argentine author Erneto J. Fitte's book “La Agresión Norteamericana”:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5053/5533028871_5a2bfae23c_b.jpg
Photo of the first page: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5053/5533028871_5a2bfae23c_b.jpg
Raul: “Therefore, the possibility remains of the principle of self-determination ...”
Remaining non-self-governing territories must have full freedom of choice, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon says
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5053/5533028871_5a2bfae23c_b.jpg
@70 Raul
Oct 26th, 2012 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’m afraid decades old resolutions and a now irrelevant committee simply do not reflect modern UN thinking.
As can be seen in all of Ban Ki-Moon’s recent pronouncements on the subject, all strongly in support of self-determination for the people of all the territories.
No special or different case for the Falklands, self-determination for ALL.
Your version of history has been completely rejected “as the facts do not support it”.
And your claims of territorial integrity are complete rubbish “as the Islands have never legitimately been administered by, or formed part of, the sovereign territory of the Republic of Argentina”.
The same tired old rhetoric which did not stand up at the time, and has not stood the test of time.
Flogging a dead horse, as we say.
Yes Raul,
Oct 26th, 2012 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All you have said is complete & utter rubbish. Lies even.
lf that is the standard of your “research” & presentation of facts, then do not even bother to post anymore.
The Falklands are not yours & never have been.
btw- have you any facts to support your country's ridiculous claim to South Georgia? l would be interested to hear them.
Argentina's claim to South Georgia is based on that the dependencies reside on the same continental shelf as Argentina.
Oct 26th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately, present day international law declares that islands, which are not VERY close to a continent possess their own continental shelf.
Besides, Uruguay, Brasil, Chile, and the other 10 South American states reside on the same continental shelf.
chrisS, what next will they lose, planes , men , politicians ,lol.
Oct 26th, 2012 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There appear to be a mistake by mercopress title, I am sure the Argentine lawmakers pressed for Islands Malvinas Argentina issue not that British company they mentioned. I don't think anyone would call themselves Coca-Cola! Then again we can expect anything from the British illegal aliens anything is possible with this freaks.
Oct 28th, 2012 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@76 PH Alex Vargas
Oct 28th, 2012 - 04:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ Then again we can expect anything from the British illegal aliens anything is possible with this freaks.”
Nice guy. You must make your family proud.
Your posturing as the champion of the oppressed shows a jealous lack of
any real compassion.
You are a self-serving bitter brainwashed tool of La Campora Juvenil.
Did you learn this from your father, too?
What happened to him - murdered jailed, what??
@76
Oct 28th, 2012 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“illegal aliens”
The Argentine illegal aliens (ie people who were NOT born on the Falklands) were on the Islands from April 1982-June 1982.
@78 PB
Oct 30th, 2012 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Too right Pete.
The Argentine delegation also called on their British peers to abide the different UN General Assembly and Decolonisation committee resolutions calling for both countries to sit and discuss the conflict and reach a peaceful solution.
Oct 31st, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it really a CONFLICT if only one side see's it as a conflict? lol
“Is it really a CONFLICT if only one side see's it as a conflict?”
Oct 31st, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If that side takes up arms or otherwise threatens the non-combatant side, of course it is a conflict - albeit, a one-sided one.
It becomes a mutual conflict when the non-combatant side responds counter-aggressively, in whatever mode it choses.
It only becomes a 'non-conflict' when the aggressor nation (or the attacked) becomes beaten into submission
or
circumstances change, aggressive actions stop, and statements of conflict declare “over”.
It seems to me that one-sided conflict will continue for years/generations.
A weak government with a weak economy needs an 'external bogey-man'.
All indicators point to generations of weak government and weak economy in Argentina.
Yeah yeah....I understand that conceptually, you miss my point. However:
Oct 31st, 2012 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”It only becomes a 'non-conflict' when the aggressor nation (or the attacked) becomes beaten into submission”
Did not Britain do that to Argentina in 83?
Yup, as it was also done to Germany in the 1918 armistice .... but it did not stop Germany opting for a Round 2 conflict in 1939 .. or substantially later if you live in the USA.
Nov 01st, 2012 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0For some countries, conflict is the prefered state-of-being (like unlimited round bareknuckle boxing). These countries do not understand the Queensbury Rules of peaceful co-existence (= non-conflict). Most of these are dictatorships of some stripe or other, where aswering to the people is somewhat academic.
or substantially later if you live in the USA.
Nov 01st, 2012 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the meaning of this portion?
CP #84, re #83
Nov 01st, 2012 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“or substantially later if you live in the USA”
Just remembering,
at this time of poppies for Remembrance,
that the USA waited for over two years
whilst Europe was being riven apart,
millions being killed in combat,
massive civilian deaths,
and genocide across the continent by the Nazis.
Unlike the UK,
....... which declared engagement as soon as Germany's anschlus rolled over Europe and the Poles, Czechs, Jews, gypsies and the disabled were incarcerated, ghettoised, put into work camps and concentration camps, starved to death, and gassed and experimented upon
.... the USA stood aside, and only engaged when it was itself attacked, somewhere else entirely.
Some think this is OK,
others prefer looking on to getting involved,
some prefer falsifying UN Resolutions to go to war (yes, the UK was also culpable).
Whatever ....
WWII started in September 1939 for the UK and the rest of Europe.
For the USA it only started in 1941/42.
@85 Geoff
Nov 02nd, 2012 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Respectfully, before there are hurt feelings amongst allies, the US President Roosevelt and their Intelligence service did help Churchill behind the scenes before 1941/42.
Please google William Stevenson's book, A Man Called Intrepid about Sir William Stephenson, Churchill's master spy aka 'The Quiet Canadian' working as liaison between the US and UK.
Author Bill Campbell, The Real Intrepid', covers more of that.
However, they were held back by US Isolationist politicians who were Nazi sympathisers and appeasers, Ambassador Joe Kennedy for one.
Britain did not heditste to bravely bear the combat single-handedly for over two
years, and there is resentment about this, but when they did get in there, they committed 100%.
Geoff if you are english which is suspect, look up the Americans lives given for a European war.....tell me what the Brits gave?
Nov 02nd, 2012 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks, Troy.
Nov 02nd, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You will note that I used the phrase “.... the USA stood aside, and only engaged when it was itself attacked ..”
Engagement is actual declaration of war, irrespective of Lend Lease - which destroyed the financial evolution of the UK even to the present day (all paid back eventually)...
but arguably better so than to be under the heel of the Ayrian dictator.
Poppy asks what the Brits gave ....
Apart from the obvious - for which we know Remember,
more recently the Brits sold their soul to the US by our Government of the day facilitating their wars in the Middle East and in Afghanistan.
So, we gave up our honour as well as our lives.
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