MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Piñera and Chilean political system shocked by 60% abstention in municipal elections
Chilean President Sebastian Piñera says the decision by many Chileans not to vote in Sunday's local elections is a “warning sign” that should be heeded. The polls, the first to be held since voting was made voluntary, were marked by an abstention of 60%. Read full article
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Oct 29th, 2012 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand it is mandatory to vote in elections in AG, but more than a third did not when TMBOA got 54% of those who voted, NOT the voting population.
Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 And a fair proportion of them are regretting voting for her now.
Oct 29th, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am shocked that they are shocked.
Oct 29th, 2012 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One strong national idiosyncrasy is that, if something is inconvenient and we are not punitively forced to do it...then we don’t do it.
We are only talking about municipal elections – most have better things to do on a Sunday.
Add to that current disenchantment with the entire political class and I am surprised the abstention rate was not higher.
“if something is inconvenient and we are not punitively forced to do it...then we don’t do it.”
Oct 29th, 2012 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The conclusion for this is very dark... seems we need someone to force us to do sth, otherwise we don't “work”. Do we need an authoritarian person again? I hope not...
But don't you think it is true?
Oct 29th, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think that one major defect of our society is the lack of civic responsibility (and to a less extent professional) when compared to “developed” nations.
For example, look how many well educated people you know just throw rubbish out of the car window or drop litter on the street. Look how many people talk on their phones while driving. Look how many people let their dogs out on the street and don’t care where they shit. It took Taliban style zero-tolerance to stop us drinking and driving.
There is much debate about how/when we will break out of middle income and become a developed nation, but I think besides economics, there are social factors too.
We need much more solidarity. Just think how many millions of hours of productive time are lost every day because no one cedes a single centimetre in their car on the roads. Just imagine how many millions of hours of productive time are lost by millions of us having to put padlocks on our padlocks to stop them disappearing.
We need to teach our children the value of collaboration in society and not that “este mundo es para los vivos”.
I sign that, Condorito, but know all the problems you mention also exists in the developed nations... Dogshit everywhere, people disregarding trash bins, no sympathy on the roads...
Oct 29th, 2012 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(6)
Oct 29th, 2012 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Teach the children well............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVaqZajq-I
I know it's true, condorito. I know... thats something we have to fear.
Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“There is much debate about how/when we will break out of middle income and become a developed nation, but I think besides economics, there are social factors too”
Totally sign this... society isn't changed by politics, but the other way round. We must have a civic society to commit to the correct politics.
Guzz, many of the problems exist in developed nations, but in a much more lower dimension. And you are being marginalized in developed nations while breaching these rules, while In much cases in our region, you are being seen as “cool” when you do not stick to the rules.
9
Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That statement is so wrong, you really need to see Europe before you say things like that.
There are good people everywhere, just as there are bad people.
I've seen a local eating his food in his car only to throw the trash out his window when he was done. When I pointed at the trash, I got a middle finger as an answer. Well, it's not my country, I thought back then, but it isn't about origin, it's about decency...
To all of the “believers” of the “Chilean Model”. As seenfrom the disorganization after the 2010 earthqueake, the student rioting, the Mapuche uprising, the “please adopt me argentina” demonstrations in the south, a clear indication that Chile is far from joining the developed world. It should look after it's own before tooting it's own horn.
Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz,
Oct 29th, 2012 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with Manrod. Of course there are good and bad people everywhere, but this isn’t about good and bad it is about civic duty/education. In Europe there is a much higher sense of civic duty than here in Chile, no doubt about it. I have seen it and lived it. In northern Europe people drive very courteously (it is different in mega cities, but the indigenous population are almost none existent there); they leave prudent spaces, they let you out at a junction, there is an “after you please” attitude, whereas here we have a “fuck you please” attitude.
Here, to throw litter is the norm irrespective of social/education class – in Europe most people put litter in bins. Everywhere I have been in small town UK I see dog owners cleaning up after their dogs. In my entire life I could count with one hand the number of times I have seen that here (and they were probably foreigners) . I am from La Serena, one of the most beautiful cities in Chile and I promise you, there in not a wall in the city without graffiti. We put up our fences and the sq. metres inside we look after, what is outside we don’t care (not me of course).
Think
Thanks for the music. Long time since I listen to CSN
Suzzie
We are having a sensible discussion here. Please go and troll elsewhere.
“That statement is so wrong, you really need to see Europe before you say things like that.”
Oct 30th, 2012 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do not “need” to see Europe, I live in Europe.
I see every day what's going on here... of course you have asocials everywhere. But they are not accepted or celebrated. That's my point.
By the way, I am talking about developed nations, not all Europe is developed. And Europe is not perfect in any way, lot's of things are going wrong here too. So let's not mix things here.
Condorito
Oct 30th, 2012 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you talk about Sweden, the bins are gone. Those were the first to go under the saving knife. The same in Denmark, and the dogshit is everywhere...
Of course people are more clean and tidy in small villages, but in larger ones, it's everybody for themselves.
Don't misunderstand me, I still think great of these nations, but lets not pretend that 20 years of neo-liberalism hasn't affected the welfare...
Guzz, the welfare has been reformed in Germany in the last 10 years, it has been tightened. And you know what? Economics before that (in the 90ies) was going down in Germany. Now, the effects of the tightening of social welfare has given Germany a constant impulse in growth and very low unemployment!
Oct 30th, 2012 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The trick about this is: keep a welfare state which keeps its people alive, but still that small that they are motivated to search for jobs and a career. The balance makes it...
What happens, when the welfare state gets too strong? Well... you see that in Greece. People lose their motivation, because doing nothing was still comfortable.
Greece a welfare state?? When???
Oct 30th, 2012 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0:)))))
Greece has been even a welfare state in many aspects. In the traditional way, but also in the corrupt way. Citizens has been almost incentivated to evade taxes, whole villages have become miracellously blind to obtain a state pension, without them really checking it. If you did not “complete” your house, you didn't have to pay taxes for it, resulting in whole cities of houses artificially unfinished not to pay tax (I was there, have seen this and the greeks told me how this works, while they were laughing about it)
Oct 30th, 2012 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0The welfare money granted there was (and partly is) much higher than the state could effort or really produce. The bureaucratic system is one of the biggest on earth, if you meassure how much % of the total population is employed directly by the state (how would you call them, ñoquis?)
In general, the state has lend and spend much more money it could obtain via margins, and they knew it. It's one of the most prominent “welfare” examples on how to mess up a state under the “title” of progressism.
http://www.abc.es/20120404/internacional/abci-isla-ciegos-grecia-201204041837.html
“The trick about this is: keep a welfare state which keeps its people alive, but still that small that they are motivated to search for jobs and a career. The balance makes it...” – very true.
Oct 30th, 2012 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz,
Sweden still has the highest taxes in the world and one of the most generous welfare systems (despite the cuts in the 90s), so if they can’t afford a few bins there really is no future for highly socialised societies. Do you get back to South America much? Even if neo-liberalism has dented social responsibility in Europe, it would take another 100 year to get to where we are.
At this time of year the “teletón” coerces us, with images of disabled children living in poverty, in to showing solidarity for our fellow citizens, but other than those 48 hours of self-flagellation we don’t give a shit. When people say we are a “sociedad solidaria” I wonder if they see the children juggling at the traffic lights, and if they do, if they understand that it means that as a society we don’t care.
On a brighter note: you know they say courtesy is contagious; 6 years ago I decided to start a one-man-courtesy-on-the-road campaign in La Serena. I started stopping to let old ladies and children cross the road, I started giving other drivers the go ahead at unsignaled junctions, letting drivers out on to busy roads, etc, etc and always saluting them so they realize it is a friendly gesture and not that my car stalled. All this unorthodox driving annoys the hell out of many drivers, but little by little more and more people are doing the same. Of course if anyone ever notices the drivers in La Serena are more friendly than in other Chilean cities, they will never know it was all down to the altruistic effort of Condorito.
President Pinera is shocked?
Oct 30th, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If he really is, the right is going to lose the next election.
I have made my own poll. Out of 25 adults, 19were not sure of the elections date. Look at thr morning TV news: Police and Football. Chileans have a very low or no interest at all in what is happening at the political arena.
The noisy far left is the only voice being heard. Social gap is increasing and the name Allende is back on stage.
hahahaha, great Condorito... You started a real revolution! And at least one that makes sense and doesn't collapse if you proceed 3 or 4 steps further in it's scheme (like all other revolutions on our continent)
Oct 30th, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wangito
Oct 30th, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The name Allende has never been off stage for the noisy far left – luckily he is on the far left of the stage, near the exit.
You are right about the “noisy far left” and ironically them dividing the Concertacion is the best hope the “right” have of winning the next election. (Personally I want to see Andres Velasco as our next president.)
Manrod
Thanks for supporting the Papayero revolution.
#3 And even more with no regrets, as she defends her country's dignity. 71% either voted for Cristina or fellow leftist Binner, the chances of that turning into a victory for a marketeer candidate you would approve of next time are close to zero.
Nov 01st, 2012 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0#11 Yes, and this abstention and dissilusionment is of a piece with all that. Though I think the turnout for the Presidential vote willbe higher, especially if as I expect Bachelet is a candidate...
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