MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Venezuelan leader establishes similarities between the governments of Argentina and Venezuela
Henrique Capriles, the runner-up in Venezuela’s recent presidential elections, commented on comparisons between Argentina’s and Venezuela’s governments in an article published on Sunday in an Argentine provincial newspaper. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesCFK will soon be Venezuela's problem...
Nov 06th, 2012 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't this guy loose the elections? Seems the Venezuelans agrees with Chavez politics...
Nov 06th, 2012 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2
Nov 06th, 2012 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you think the Venezuelan people had much to do with Chaves retaining power then you're a bigger fool than you sound. Another similarity with Argentina when Turkey neck cooks the books for another term, I doubt the Argentine people will have much to do with that either. South America and despot dictatorships are synonymous with each other.
Every international observator, including the Euro ones, agrees that the Ven elections were free and fair, you are the only ones stating the opposite...
Nov 06th, 2012 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I'm sure the state run media slur campaign on his opposition had nothing to do with it, get real!
Nov 06th, 2012 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3
Nov 06th, 2012 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Afraid that Guzz is right, the Carter institute (as in Jimmy Carter ex US president) has said that the democratic process in Venezuela is one of the fairest in the world and pretty much impossible to rig. The reason being that the votes are made by an electronic means, a piece of paper is then printed out with a record of who you voted for and a unique number. You are them directed towards a voting booth where you do the old cross in the box routine. The separate pieces of paper are then submitted separately. To rig the vote, out only would you have to rig the entire electronic system but you would then have to also rig the entire paper system and the results are checked against each other. We might not like the policies in either country and we might not be able to understand why people vote the way they do but we should be very wary of calling a system which has a fairer and more independent electoral system than the US, a dictatorship. It does us no credit and, frankly, lessens any argument against the political system. The report by the Carter institute wasn’t reported widely by the media in the US.
6 Welsh Wizard
Nov 06th, 2012 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mmm. So what happens when a voter places their cross in a different box because they have changed their mind at the last minute? Does the electronic record take preference, or the paper? Or is the vote void?
You can surely see the possibility for a fix depending on the answer.
Who has control of the programme used for the elections? Was it audited for integrity by an independent third party and then ‘sealed’ electronically from unauthorised modifications?
ALL systems can be rigged, as a lawyer you must know that yourself.
Yes, I do know that and I am no fan of the Venezuelan model. I do not know all of the inns and outs but numerous human rights organisations have said that the voting process is one of the best in the world. Not even the right decided to contest any parts of the result as they know that it would make them look bitter and foolish.
Nov 06th, 2012 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0If numerous neutral/external organisations are saying that it is one of the fairest in the world, and given that they have a level of expertise in these maters which far surpasses anyone on these borards, I would be inclined to agree with them rather than label the winner of those elections a dictator.
South America is finding its voice and currently this is what it is saying. If inflation turns into hyperinflation and there is mass devaluation, huge unrest on the streets (and I'm taking MORE unrest than the 8th of Nov) then maybe what South America want will change. If we see the same people getting elected when all is this is happening and the neutral/external organisations saying that the elections are dodgy then I will defer to their better judgement as experts and probably conclude that something is drastically wrong with their system. Until then, trying to infer that the system is rigged/corrupt is very much the same as a South American poster saying that the British judiciary is corrupt and that the rule of law does not exist in the UK when the overwhelming evidence is that it does.
“Venezuelan leader establishes similarities between the governments of Argentina and Venezuela”,
Nov 06th, 2012 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0hes not wrong, faked illness,corruption, bribery, threats, dictatorship however he seems to have forgotten north korea in his comparisons.
@8
Nov 06th, 2012 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0When you don't have a free press and you control the media and what is screened on tv and you are able denigrate your opposition with lies and malicious allegations and you are able to print what you want, you can hardly call it a fair electoral system can you.
Two seperate things that, the process of voting and the media. Furthermore, you must remember that the right wing media was actually calling for people to assassinate Chavez, take up arms and kill him. There was a massive front page article telling people to do this. That is a bona fide coup request...This was before he started to take more control so it was hardly unilateral (not that it is an excuse).
Nov 06th, 2012 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at what is happening in the US today, if these stories came out anywhere else in the world we would be talking of corrupt governments and rigged elections, everyone would be up in arms yet stories such as these didn't arise in Venezuela.
I would also just like a little clarification on what level of expertise we are all claiming to have on the Venezuelan electoral process which the experts and people on the ground don't have. Personally, I have none. I wasn't there and I do not work as an independent monitor.
I will, however, admit that UN/EU/international monitors have been threatened with arrest in some places if they come within 300 metres of any polling station...in the US.
I wonder how much of the $3 billion stuck to KFC's grubby little fingers... a kept woman running a kept country. I would imagine that if Capriles gained power and turned off the money tap the effect would be far and away more dramatic than what happened to Cuba when the russians went home...
Nov 06th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course there is a similarity between the argie and venezuelan governments. Argieland is a dictatorial tyranny, whilst venezuela is a tyrannical dictatorship. Still “the people” get the government they deserve!
Nov 06th, 2012 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12
Nov 06th, 2012 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interestingly, Argentina does look to Venezuela to be a close ally and friend. However, the interest on the $3bn was far from friendly. Chavez screwed them on that one, screwed them whilst smiling...
Of coúrse..
Nov 06th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they are very simílar becouse
bôth have some monéy lending ínto US banks
Laúgh .
Having been on Carter Center missions to Venezuela in 1998 and 2004, I tend to agree with most CC assessments that Chávez government has in the past kept elections comparatively free and fair, with some significant problems (see link below to CC Venezuela reports - see pdf for 12 Oct/12).
Nov 06th, 2012 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, Capriles point is useful to explore - that Venezuela's foreign policy isn't helping Venezuelans, while it is also enmeshing Argentina (and other countries) in a systemic slide downwards in transparency and probity. Examples are growing where international human rights organizations such as Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, are finding significant issues in Venezuela. And Venezuela's 2011 Corruption Perception Index 1.9/10 is worse even than Argentina's 3/10.
And hopefully CFK's Argentina won't copy Venezuela's plan to borrow big money to acquire yet more weapons, as with Venezuela's loan to get $4 billion of Russian weapons.
Carter Centre Election Reports - Venezuela:
http://www.cartercenter.org/news/publications/election_reports.html#venezuela
Amnesty International Venezuela:
http://www.cartercenter.org/news/publications/election_reports.html#venezuela
Human Rights Watch Venezuela:
http://www.cartercenter.org/news/publications/election_reports.html#venezuela
2011 Corruption Perception Index:
http://www.cartercenter.org/news/publications/election_reports.html#venezuela
Russia to lend Venezuela $4 bln to pay for arms deals:
http://www.cartercenter.org/news/publications/election_reports.html#venezuela
@16, that may be so and with the constitutional referendum there was buzz that the CNE was working overtime at the end to make Chavez realize that he had lost that one, yet even there there are allegations that the CNE is “packed” by members of the ruling PSUV . But it's certainly NOT unfair to say that Chavez makes full use of state resources to “rig” the vote a-prori via control of state infrastructure including media (e.g, his fondness for cadenas which he used openly for buck-naked electioneering), controlling licenses of opposition air-broadcasting rights, and permitting his party to run roughshod over the opposition to the point where members of the opponents campaign “are killed” (in the passive voice of course!). blocked from hosting their candidate by PSUV mobs with impunity. This leaves the opposition in the unenviable position of “walking uphill against water” against an incumbent state juggernaut. As such the Carter Center's assessment is rather superficial and lacks boatloads of context. If GWB or Obama, take your pick, had done half of the things that Chavez had done, the Carter Center would be having hissyfits.
Nov 06th, 2012 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This lad is still frustrated and licking his wounds from a fantastic bashing.
Nov 06th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#18 receiving 45% of the popular vote is hardly a “fantastic bashing”.
Nov 06th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 017: I agree that it is fair comment that Chávez' machine has over the years since his first election in 1998 attempted to, and in some ways been successful, at systemically “rigging” the process in between elections, so that on election day, process appears “clean”.
Nov 06th, 2012 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Carter's 5 October 2012 pre-electoral report does point to Chávez' growing control over state media, and state media replacing private media, as a problem, along with many other issues (“Campaign Conditions” , page 3-4). http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/venezuela-100512.html
Carter Centre did not observe 7 October Venezuela presidential election because of a change of Venezuelan National Electoral Council (CNE) rules, now only allowing superficial “accompaniment” and not the more rigorous “observation”):
http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/venezuela-100512.html
Its unfortunate and I think mirrors issues in Russia (Golos, OSCE observers) and elsewhere (ie, Texas-OSCE) with their distrust of independent electoral observers. (Texas-OSCE issue: http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/venezuela-100512.html
8 Welsh Wizard
Nov 06th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps it was how I wrote my post @ 7 that lead you to believe, incorrectly, that I was casting doubt on the outcome of the vote: I was asking you two serious questions.
As for the:
and given that they have a level of expertise in these maters which far surpasses anyone on these borards,(sic) I would be inclined to agree with them rather than label the winner of those elections a dictator.
As a retired Professional Engineer I was for many years also an Internationally Registered Auditor of Business Systems. I also wrote some original software for Pirelli Cables for predicting the sizes of certain key parts of their fibre optic cable systems used in India for digital synchronous hierarchy transmissions (9 million calls on each node simultaneously and there were 26 nodes in SW India). Until my software was in place the engineers literally had to guess the finished size of a key component, manufactured in ‘glass’ for the initial trials and modify them accordingly. Imagine manufacturing these special glass parts to microns only to discover the efficiency of the fibre optic system (including the optronic switches) was incorrect.
So I wish I had your confidence in the experts, but let me show you an extract of the over-arching ‘get out of trouble’ statement by the Clinton Centre:
“The Carter Center does not have an election observation mission in Venezuela; it will not provide a comprehensive assessment of the quality of the electoral process as a whole. Instead, the Center will issue a report following the election based on interviews, reports of national observer organizations, analysis of Venezuelan laws and regulations, and personal observations over the five-month period.”
So no actual verification of the software or its’ security would have been done. Venezuela has a corruption index of 1.9 (the same as Somalia) out of a maximum of 10.
#12 Cuba is an island with limited natural resources, Argentina has more natural resources then UK and USA could theft from 1822 until now. Argentina needs to close the doors to all international pirates.
Nov 06th, 2012 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#16 did amnesty international consider CIA and MI6 in Libya or The terrorist being armed by Qatar in Syria? About the WMD jhon can you shed some light on the WMD, one last question jhon isn't the murder of thousands of innocent Muslims women and children more important to you or amnesty international. I rather we punish murderers first and hunt the corrupt last don't you think that my approach can make it Easter for us to hunt them all.
#13 if we had an nuclear defence program in Argentina we could go into Ghana and level the country to take our boat back, UK and USA did it in Libya and they are in the busyness of murdering Muslims for oil, why not just follow the examples set by the people that come here to patronize us..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9646826/Argentina-told-to-seize-up-to-19.2bn-of-assets-from-Chevron.html
@22 Prat
Nov 06th, 2012 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you want to know what your fellow Argentines in the diaspora think of your government, and its policies, you should go to:
TORONTO - Consulado de Argentina - 5001 Yonge Street a las 7 PM - HORA LOCAL
8N
@18 Pro-RG
You and SussieUS appear to have quite a choice:
EEUU, 18 hs (horario local)
1) MIAMI BEACH - Colins y la 73 calle, frente al restaurant Manolo's. Pleno corazon de la Pequeña Argentina en Miami Beach
2) Washington DC, VA, MD y metro area 1600 New Hampshire Avenue Northwest Washington
3) NEW YORK - Consulado Argentino en NYC 12 West 56th Street, (entre 5ta. & 6ta. Ave) New York, NY el 8 de Noviembre a las 6PM
4) BOSTON, Massachusetts, Downtown Crossing, 18hs hora local
5) CHICAGO - Consulado argentino - 205 N. Michigan Ave, suite 4209, 6PM
8N
Enjoy.
@Pirat - ALEX VARGAS
Nov 06th, 2012 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ the murder of thousands of innocent Muslims women and children”
What “thousands”?????
You only have one pea rattling around inside that tin, don't you ?!!
How's life in suburban Canada, playing “Call of Duty”??
REAL Jihadists actually DO things!
LOL LOL
Venezuelan leader establishes similarities between Argentina and Venezuela
Nov 06th, 2012 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 01, both have leaders
2, both have people
3, both empiralistic ambitions,
4, both hate the brits
5, both con the people
6, both may cross dress to look similar .
7, ??
.
@ Guzz
Nov 06th, 2012 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: @23 -Sorry mate, didn’t mean to leave you out, your invited. Something about “NO SOMOS NI SEREMOS VENEZULA”
SUECIA
1) ESTOCOLMO - Embajada argentina: Narvavägen 32, 3rd floor - Estacion de tren Karlaplan. 7PM HORA LOCAL. Punto de encuentro: fuente de la plaza a la salida de la estación de tren Karlaplan
URUGUAY
1) MALDONADO-PUNTA DEL ESTE: Playa mansa Parada 16
8N
Where ever you are.
22 Pirat-Hunter:
Nov 06th, 2012 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You may wish to look up what AI and HRW say about Libya and Syria:
Amnesty International Libya: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya
Human Rights Watch Libya:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya
Amnesty International Syria: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya
Human Rights Watch Syria: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya
So they are similiar. no suprises there then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nov 07th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@22 Quite right. argieland should close all its borders. In and out. Always isolate a disease. What innocent muslims? I've never come across an “innocent” muslim. They are very similar to argies. There aren't any of those either! 41,282,631 war criminals, murderers and genocides! Do you understand the meaning of the word “defence”? Wait a minute. I get it. In argie, “defence” means attack, invade, occupy, torture, murder. And some twat is upset that I want to see your body with the entrails ripped out and wrapped around your throat. As well as the specially drilled hole between your ears. A 7.62mm hole, of course! Not to mention the recently-used sledgehammer between what remains of your broken legs.
Nov 07th, 2012 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 I don't know why you're posting links for alex. I've looked at a couple of them. There are long words. Just look at some examples from the first link: “intelligence”, “arrested”, “incommunicado”, “repressive”. “Intelligence” isn't part of the argie make-up. “Arrest” is something that only happens to poor victims. “Incommunicado” is just too long. And, amongst argies, “repressive” is normal. As is “regressive”!
25 briton
Nov 07th, 2012 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 07) They both have sex with each other.
I know, I know, what an awful mental picture that brings up.
Sorry guys. :o) LOLs
19 inthegutter (#) “#18 receiving 45% of the popular vote is hardly a “fantastic bashing”.”
Nov 07th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given that the opposition thought that they were going to walk away with an easy victory with the high voter turnout and the way they acted about the result, it was a bashing. If not, it was at least an eye opening pouncing.
If Hugo Chavez is so “unpopular”, it is high time to go back and reflect as to what it is about the past that the Venezuelan people don't like.
Perhaps the treatment and despise that the poor majority got from the aristrocratic minority.
But Capriles is NOT the Venezuelan leader =) Anyway to be compared to each other is a great compliment to both Chavez and Cristina =)
Nov 09th, 2012 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!