MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Ghana will insist in relocating Argentine frigate with a new court order
Ghana’s government is expected to submit a petition on Monday to cut all water, electricity and fuel supply to Argentina’s navy training ARA Libertad frigate after armed sailors prevented an operation led by local port authorities, GPHA, who wanted to relocate the ship to another berth, spokesmen of Tema Port said. Read full article
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Nov 12th, 2012 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Come on - they're only Argies !! Anyone can beat Argies !
Nov 12th, 2012 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Soon they've lost more money on the Libertad taking up space than they gained by Singer bribes :)))
Nov 12th, 2012 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lord Ton, lead the charge.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 04
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0No!
Do you know what a well-thrown keyboard can do to ones teeth?
@1,3 Argie Trolls
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0ProRG. Argentine:
“Shoot their d--rk as-es if they try it!”
Sounds racist to me. What will the Ghanaians think??
Guzzano:
”Soon they've lost more money on the Libertad taking up space than they gained by Singer bribes :)))”
Argentina could pay their own moorage - that way, they would have no confrontations and keep their services. If the Libertad were returned to Argentina, they could sue Singer for costs.
Conversely,
Once the ship were forfeited to Singer, HE could pay the fees. Once the ship was auctioned off, singer could deduct the moorage fees, plus other expenses, from the money received from the sale. the net amount would go towards the outstanding debt.
What's wrong with that??
I don't understand why this weasels keep addressing me. When I respond, they cry to mommy and get my posts deleted, at the same time they abuse with every single post of theirs... Bloody pointless...
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Guzzano
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“When I respond, they cry to mommy and get my posts deleted,”
Don't respond, then ...
Argentina abandoning their military in an isolated location which they have no business being in the first place, with food running out and with no hope of winning, does this sound familiar?? there is only one outcome :)
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0This will end with bloodshed. The Argentine sailors resisted unarmed dock workers with guns. Next time the port authorities turn up, it will be with armed Police & possibly even their Navy too.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the Argentines open fire on the port authorities in lawful pursuit of their court orders, then the Argentine sailors will die. Their blood will be on CFK's hands for allowing this to get this far.
Argentina is resisting the port move on the basis that they are more of a nuisance if they occupy one of the commercial berths. The port authorities have no choice, they have to move the frigate, but they will not let it leave port.
This has become a matter of national pride for Ghana as much as for Argentina. However, the Argentine government has abandoned all reason (as well as their sailors) by not accepting that these debts have to be settled to allow the vessel to leave. So we are following a path which lead to an inevitable conclusion, whereby the Argentine sailors will die or end up seriously wounded and for no justifiable reason.
These sailors believe that they are defending the honour of their country. They are refusing to allow the move, because they've been instructed to do so by their ambassador. The problem is that this policy can only end one way. They (and many Argentines) think that they will be martyrs if they resist. But the sad truth is they will be victims of CFK's stupidity. Her 'dictatorship' will end (and soon if the demonstrations are anything to go by) and when she's gone, the families of the sailors will complain that their loved ones did not die for their country, they died because CFK refused to honour their country's debts.
There is no honour in dying stupidly. Those Argentine sailors believe that they are defending their flag. But they can do this without dishonouring it and allow the port move. This will be a senseless waste of life if they die by using gunfire against the Ghana Port Authorities.
Pride comes before a fall, let's sit back, eat popcorn, and watch a mighty world power like Ghana (heh!) teach Argentina a lesson in honour.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0More racist and offensive commentary from the trolls I see.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0There seems to have been a tilt in their orders, from diversionary tactics to outright insults and racism.
Seems like the rats have felt the ship is taking on water.
All this talk of military action is garbage.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The real battles will continue to be fought in the court of law.
NML is certainly winning the action thus far but in the grand scheme of things this is small change, more useful is the PR and leverage associated with this action.
Ghana obviously need to use the dock space and Argentina are being belligerent and uncooperative in not freeing up the berth as requested, hence more legal action.
Ghana won't open fire on the Argentine sailors, however, they will return fire if the Argentines are stupid enough to open fire.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then any deaths will be attributed to the crew, and they will all be arrested and tried for murder. The Captain will be especially liable.
With any luck he isn't stupid enough to open fire, but you never know...
I totally love this Argentine lie: “According to the Argentine Defence ministry Friday release “the Ghanaian Port Authority sought to assault the ship”
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0When the truth is that the Tema port authorities turned up with a pier crew, two tugs and a crane - assault :-D - using nuclear weapons?
Disguzzsting Gustavo, ProRG_Nutcase suggests to murder innocent members of a pier crew - in anothe rthread to kill innocent fishermen and sailors - an all you have to say about it is “Soon they've lost more money ...”
What happened to all your alleged empathy? - ain't you a hippocreep?
Argentina do not care about any country other then their own country no respect for honorable country's like Ghana, US, EU and UK just there own selfish selfs. it will be your downfall,
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only 48 days left for the next round by Singer.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0According to the Argentines, the ship still enjoys the sovereign immunity that was inadvertently waived by their evil twin brother, or something.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0But this fiction of immunity is further undermined if they let the Ghanians move the ship. And if they can provoke a crisis, it will support their aim of changing the narrative from breach of contract to sovereign rights, and provide a handy nationalist diversion at this difficult time.
Imagine if it were a first world western port.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For a start the Argentine silors would not have dared to wave their weapons around - but if they had they'd currently be surrounded by overwhelming firepower and it would be world news and being addressed by the UNSC.
To be honest I'm surprised, but pleased, at how restrained the Ghanaians are being.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, their patience will have limits, and should the Argentine captain and crew try to stop this legal court order to move the vessel they can be arrested.
Despite what the Argentine trolls believe, the crew does not, nor has it ever had diplomatic immunity. Also the ARA Libertad is not considered sovereign Argentine territory because Argentina WAIVED that immunity when taking out the loans that they now refuse to pay back.
So, if the Captain has any brains he'll follow this court order and move, if he doesn't he will be in contempt and arrested, as will any of his crew that try to interfere.
If they go for the weapons option they also better be prepared for the consequences of opening fire on unarmed civilians, and the Ghanaians will respond with DEADLY force, and they would be in their legal rights to do so.
Place your bets - have the Argentine crew been given orders to scuttle the ship if they fail to get her back through court judgements?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently tweedle dumb and tweedle dee (Timerman, Puricelli) are giving a press conference on the Libertad at 10.30am (3.00pm GMT).
Nov 12th, 2012 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I assume you meant “regarding” rather than “on” - or are they over in Ghana prepared to go down with their ship?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Couple things:
Nov 12th, 2012 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No gas, water or electricity will break the morale of the Rgs.
Singer has guaranteed the port charges
Aren't the Ghanaian Courts waiting on NYC or London to issue paperwork for the seizure? Is the hold-up that Singer is including the corvette in SA on the same order? Hmm?
It would be the height of embarrassment for the Rg captain and crew to rot in jail over contempt charges? Do you think CFK would pay their bond? Or just whine over how unfair all the world is....
Several Argentine people on Twitter (and on these boards) have voiced their support for armed defence of the ship. It's a very short-sighted tactic and could easily escalate the dispute.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the trainees left last month, a number of sailors volunteered (or were ordered) to remain by the Captain. I have no doubt that they were told that they were defending Argentine honour & their flag. That they would resist the vessel being sold, or being handed over to NML Capital.
The said truth is that they are facing a no-win scenario. They cannot defeat Ghana. Argentina is certainly not going to go to war with Ghana. If they tried, they would not only get a bloodied nose, but the condemnation of the United Nations, for instigating a war that was totally unnecessary.
Being elected to the UN Security Council comes with some responsibilities to behave as any other nation should - not to act with aggression to other countries - to pay debts on time - to represent the interests of smaller & weaker members of the UN and to protect their rights & integrity.
If Argentina acts with aggression towards Ghana, they may find that Ghana (as a Commonwealth nation & member of the African Union) will call on other nations to defend their rights. I doubt that South Africa will be so keen to release that Argentine corvette if a fellow African nation is attacked by Argentine forces.
The captain of the frigate needs to be sensible & protect his sailor's lives. He does not need to waste them in a futile effort to prevent the vessel being moved, when that move does not entail loss of his command. If he orders his men to open fire, the Ghanaian forces will prevail. If anyone is killed, then the blood of these people will be on the Captain's hands. If any Ghanaian dies then the Captain could be charged with murder. Ghana does have the death penalty and has executed in recent years.
This can only be resolved peacefully if the Captain of the ship allows the move & takes the flag when he leaves.
Escalating stupidity.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When will the R-gens get rid of Mrs. Bottox?
Paraguay did it in 12 hours for a LOT less doings.
Cheeky barstewards - it's Ghana's bloody port!!!
Nov 12th, 2012 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The port is losing money (I wonder if Argentina will pay it's dock fees?) and they need to use the space for import/export, not old sailing boats.
Ghana is the world's second largest export of Gold and more importantl the Cocoa bean that goes into my cadbury's choccy bar.... I'm not happy
#20 LEP, the trolls do not understand that diplomatic immunity not only applies to “DIPLOMATS”, but the recieving nation must also approve the diplomat being given diplomatic immunity. The trolls AND argentina needs to go back and retake the class.....International Diplomacy and Politics-101a
Nov 12th, 2012 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe CFK is trying to turn this into distraction like that long ago war with you-know-who about some islands. Sailors are doomed if this is true.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What are the odds that with ARA Libertad sat on Pier 11, the next ships to be arriving at piers 10 and 12 will be GNS Sebo and GNS Dzata respectively.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To put this into perspective...the reason why they wouldn't move the ship is because they are appealing against the court order. As such, they don't need to move it until that appeal runs its course. Q: Are they being bloody minded. A: Yes.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, they are within their rights to do so.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/116710/argentina-to-report-ghanaian-govt-before-international-tribunal-if-libertad-frigate-is-not-liberated
Nov 12th, 2012 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Timmerman announced he is going to have a moan in Hamburg about his lost ship.
This becomes more and more farcical. My sympathy is with the captain and the crew. All this could have been sorted out quite easily by asking the Ghanian port authority for the ship to be moved, requesting a tug if La Libertad cant move under her own power and taking aboard an unarmed port pilot as per regulations in any port
Nov 12th, 2012 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But no: Mr purtrescent on orders from his President and Timmerman prefers confrontation. Foriegn policy seems to be conducted in the same manner as a cornered cobra,hissing and stricking out blindly against all comers. Dont they damn well realize if they provoke an incident against Ghana, the entire African continent will be against Argentina? They may not be able to do much military, but they have a helluva lot of votes on the UN committees for what thats worth. I hate to see a proud nation such as Argentina shooting herself in the foot and frankly looking foolish to the rest of the world.
Perhaps Cristina will now pick a quarrel with Denmark and Sweden on some trumped up issue. If so it will be interesting to see Wurzels reaction!
Yes it's a shame that Julian Assange chose the Ecuadorian rather than Argentinian embassy. That would have been much more fun.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ARA Libertad is definately starting to resemble a white elephant. I think Argentina should demand 20.000.000.00 U$ service charge from Ghana courts representing the vultures arguing that moving a massive ship it a lot more dangerous and labour intensive then willingly purchasing troubled bonds, It all comes with the territory. Let's never forget that there is more then one way to skin a cat and where there is will there will be a way. Poor CFK having to face what Argentine corrupt men created decades ago, I don't care what anyone says this woman has ovaries the size of a bulls balls. Videla, galtiery, menem, duhalde, macri and every other Argentine man can't be trusted , Argentina's history can show us a lot regarding this matter.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
The message being broadcast, loud and clear, is:
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinian Govt. will not pay its debts
Argentinian Govt. will make a complete arse of itself if forced to pay any of its debts.
At least nobody's trying to justify this behaviour, it is indefensible.
@35 - PH
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor CFK? More like very rich CFK who's had her hand in the till for years.
If Argentina had honoured its debts instead of trying to steal the money that was loaned to them in good faith, this entire situation could've been avoided.
Moving the Libertad wouldn't be dangerous, the people who do this kind of work are very experienced. It would only be dangerous if the Argentine crew broke the law and opened fire.
Pay your debts Argentina, show the world that you actually have some honour.
This is for all you argentines trolls, asslips supporters and the likes. Anwser this one question for me: If MNL did not buy the bonds, the original holders possessed the bonds, WHOMEVER they be, refused to renegotiate, would they then be vultures whom argentina defaults on because they refuse to take an argentine haircut?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6 re: @1: Well, what little pretense that “pro-RG American” is indeed american has just been flushed. Americans who sympathize with the “Malvinas” narrative are typically left-leaning. leveraging the myth that Argentines are less white than the british and therefore on the “right” side of any colonialist argument despite their demographics, history and current practices against indigenous peoples. (Even the Junta's biggest apologist during the conflict, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, was cryptic on sovereignty.) And even at the worst of Bush Derangement Syndrome, Rice and other conservatives of-color, while derided as Uncle Toms and bad chauffeurs/maids/gardeners were rarely subjected to openly ~broadly~ racist imagery or epithets; “it's just not done.” (Heck, Birthers have the “decency” to dress their internalized bigotry in dog-whistle languages.) PRG-A is either naturalized (unlikely) or as American as the rest of the other peronists, cámporas, and armchair dirty warriors.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On a slightly different point, it is interesting from a diplomatic view point - actually threatening to shoot people if they board your ship...
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you to the Angles, for with their words here they are clearly proving,
that the Land of Silver should and MUST never towards you be trusting,
as you shall always seek our bane for not belonging to your wretched grouping,
this Commonwerth of despotism and bullying, a stain of the past lingering.
I still think that once Argentina has exhausted all legal avenues they will scuttle her.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 41 Whereas Argentina could never be accused of bullying?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes this is very interesting indeed, I assume the sailors have to fight for their Queen.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Russia Today is slagging you off for corruption and incompetence then you really are the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel:
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://rt.com/news/kirchner-president-public-argentina-527/
Enjoy - maybe not one for the malvinistas.
@43
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is the Angles and their lingering union of bondage purported as kind,
that for score have tried to cow any who defies their closed views and mind,
for any who is not Angle they deem to always be wrong and blind,
the world's had enough, but most importantly who's had enough is justice divine.
@42, ... which will further endear Argentina to the Ghana port authorities.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@42 and I assume that they would charge Argentina for any clean-up costs...?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All the more reason to remove the crew.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Irony - if they scuttle her, they will not receive the credit of her value towards the debt.
Remember if you are my chief or my servant yet both my brother,
Nov 12th, 2012 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0that the most wretched chief and the most abused slave remain kin,
for when you attempt deals and colloquy with the foreign others,
the outsiders will lunge their fists to your chin, or flay your skin, even your mother's.
Er.. hmm f the Argentine defence minisrtry had any guts they would signal the captain to cut his moorings and escape to rendezvous with a powerful Argentine naval squadron outside Ghanian terretorial waters. So Ghana makes a verbal protest but breathes a sigh of relief for being relieved of a problem. The problem is :where is the protecting Argentine naval squadron? The corvette tied up at Simonstown under threat of sequestration as well? Come on Argentina, where is the spirit instilled into you by your Irish admiral William Brown. He must be wriggling in his grave up in Foxford in Co Mayo to see the naval service he founded so hide bound by politcal time servers
Nov 12th, 2012 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@40
Nov 12th, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I maybe able to answer that.
A vessel flagged (registered) in a particular country is the sovereign territory of that country, but has to conform to the laws of the local country when they are within its jurisdiction.
Once they are within the 12 nautical mile limit, under Admiralty or Maritime law they can be boarded by the local country & detained or arrested to retain jurisdiction. They are subject to local court rulings.
The crew must allow the local authorities to board the vessel. Especially the police, port doctor (for quarantine inspection), port pilot or customs. If the Captain refuses, he (and his vessel) can be arrested and taken ashore.
Normally, a visiting warship or state owned vessel would be immune from arrest. However, as we all know, in this case, the Argentine Government waived sovereign immunity when they agreed to the bonds. Therefore, any complaint that the Argentine Captain has against being detained must be taken up against his own Government and not the local one that lawfully arrested him.
If the Captain fires upon any authority attempting to board his vessel, he could be charged with murder in the local country.
If the Captain of a sovereign vessel fires upon any authority, that could be considered an act of war.
If the Captain were to sink his own vessel, to prevent it being detained or captured, that would be an act of barratry. This used to hold the death penalty, but this lapsed after the case of the Marie Celeste.
Ghana, as a Commonwealth Nation, bases their maritime law on British Admiralty Law and they have ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
If the Captain of the vessel opens fire on the port authorities attempting a properly legally ordered move, then the Ghanaian Police & Navy could lawfully return fire to subdue any resistance. The Captain of the Frigate would be held responsible for any deaths and could be tried for murder & if convicted, executed.
@45
Nov 12th, 2012 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A very interesting article.
@52
Well explained - thank you.
@51, From the Argentinian perspective, they need a face-saving resolution. Even if there was absolutely no resistance to a “jailbreak” aside from a symbolic “stop!”, they would still be seeing as cutting-and-running. Buenos Aires needs “validation” and that means that they need a ruling in their favor from someone somewhere of importance so they can leave with their head high with open clearance from the port, not skedaddling with a tail between their legs. Otherwise other assets may meet the same fate.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ghana is WAAAAY HIGHER than Argentina on Transparency International's ethics list, also their judicial system is rated significantly cleaner.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But the gem in the Kirchner Crown of Corruption and Fraud involves President Cristina Kirchner herself: the almost complete disappearance of hundreds of millions of dollars in public funds in her native Santa Cruz province in the Patagonia region, at the hands of her deceased husband, former President Néstor Kirchner back in the early nineties when he was Provincial Governor.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In 1992, Governor Néstor Kirchner and Provincial Deputy Cristina Kirchner intensely lobbied for President Carlos Menem and his Economy Minister Domingo Cavallo’s plan to sell the state oil giant YPF to Spain’s Repsol (probably a front for Britain’s BP).
As a reward for Kirchner’s services to Menem, in 1993 Santa Cruz Province was paid by the federal government $654 million in long-outstanding royalties owed by YPF.
Thus those federal funds became provincial funds, which Kirchner immediately expatriated. Today, almost 20 years later, no one knows exactly what became of that money.
We do know that it passed through several tax havens including the Cayman Islands. We do know that when Néstor Kirchner became President in 2003, he finally admitted that those hundreds of millions of dollars were deposited with global mega-banks Morgan Stanley (Luxembourg), and UBS and Crédit Suisse (Switzerland), two tax havens known for their strict banking secrecy.
We do know that, in line with Kirchner’s sloppy management of public funds, they unwittingly admitted that Santa Cruz’s money was deposited in the “Private Banking” departments of Credit Suisse and UBS.
Which led to a key question being asked: Why were hundreds of millions of dollars in public funds deposited in the private banking department of those two Swiss banks?
Inquiries determined that these banks’ “Private Banking” departments manage funds for “very wealthy individuals”. That led to further questions: In whose name were those bank deposits? Néstor and Cristina Kirchner? Some other front man?
BUT DO THE TROLLS BELIEVE???
@52 Nigel An interesting and instructive comment unlike most of the rubbish that are posted here by both sides. The crime of barretary I thought was consigned to oblivion post 1815 though not being a navy person I may be wrong. Can you you give me a link please?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barratry_(admiralty_law)
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@20 A thing to remember is that south america has “rules” that no-one else has. Remember Assange and how Ecuador said it was granting him “diplomatic asylum”. I reckon a lot of people just thought that was a bit of mis-reporting. “That'll be ”political asylum“”. But no, south america really does have “diplomatic asylum”. But it only operates in places that signed up to the appropriate convention. Apparently, North America didn't, Europe didn't, Asia didn't, Oceania didn't. It's like their ideas about the succession of states. They have their own odd ideas because they're mostly rebel colonies and they could have all killed each other getting agreement on what “belonged” to who.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@32 Interesting article. Not much in the way of clues. My guess is that Timerman is hoping that Article 32 of UNCLOS will do the job. So when the other side produces the evidence that the immunity was waived. And then points to argieland's breach of Article 19 (threat or use of force), he should be stuffed again!
@35 You already posted this crap, alex. Memory going? Or just double-trolling?
@39 Latinos from “down south” like to claim that they are “American”. This is because they are a little ashamed of their own nationality. Or that calling themselves “American” makes them feel “big”!
@54 Can't think of any way they're going to get that. Somehow, I doubt Ghana is likely to cave. Argieland has threatened their sovereignty. Pulling guns on port authorities is a breach of Article 19 of UNCLOS. Best thing argies can do is to cough up the US$20 million and scuttle off. As a thought, did I see something somewhere about the argies sending out another crew? Arrives at Accra airport and refused permission to enter. Fly to Lagos. Arrive at border and refused permission to enter. Could they enter “covertly”. Wow, illegal immigrants!
It's kinda nice, that since, many elements of the late '70s are in play astrologically, Argentina is getting out their aggression kinda mildly, versus their preparation against in the Falklands.back when. This might be a release valve.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the U.S. NE, they're gas rationing just like the Carter admin..but it's low-stress. And we voted our Carter in this time!!!
@60
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you actually saying anything or are you just a spambot?
@61 My words are an attempt to be relevant to the Ghana situation, yours aren't.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see a little vent of agression reducing, POSSIBL Y, pressure against
the Falklands.
The gas rationing is not for the lack of fuel as it is the destroyed gas stations and trucks not able to get through.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the fragata don't worth a dime!
Nov 12th, 2012 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol
@63 Absolutely true, Cap'n Poppy. Things aren't repeating exactly . The more conscious a people, the freer they are from cycles.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The most salient post on here is the article from Russia today detailing chapter and vers about how corrupt Argentina is. When the Russians say you are corrupt, you are bloody very corrupt!
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@45, good post, and thanks for excerpting Cap'n Poppy.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One has to question the sanity of every single Anti-Argentina poster here.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do they really believe that just because they are “British”, “American”, “French”, “German”, “Italian”, “insert any other European country here”... “Chilean”, “Uruguayan”, “Brazilian”, “Australian”, “Canadian”.... “Ghanan”, and now let's add “Russian”, they have the right to insult us up and down in the way you guys do daily? Humiliating our cultural habits, our servicemen, our food, our economy, our politics, our traditions, our music, everything?
Who the HELL gave you that right?
Assuming for one solitary second you do have that right, how on Earth can you then pretend that we Argentines have no rights to criticize your pathetic countries back? Because if or when we do, you claim we are the “agressors”?
All you can do is post these links about how the Russians say we are corrupt, the EU says we are this, the Americans that, the Brazilians and Chileans or Mexicans say the other...
The fact the rest of the world villifies us so much speaks volumes of your societies and how ordinary, vulgar, and self-deluded you are. For the Argentine media never criticizes other countries, because we have some standards of decency to know better than throwing stones from a glass house.
And assuming one more second that the rest of the world has the right to trash us, and we are denied the right to reply, does your pathetic insults still hold true? 90% of what is said here about Argentina are provable lies, and the other 9% are grotesque exaggerations and stererotyping.
If repeating such scurril makes you believe it will be true, one can understand why you all behave the way you do... but the sad part is it doens't.
And the more you people insist on portraying Argentina as beneath even the worst society on this planet, and a worse country than any that ever existed, the more you harden the young generation of Argentines to dislike any of you.
The question that remains is... what have you gained?
@ 68 “Who the HELL gave you that right?”
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Free speech.
You do not seem to understand the basic premise of this forum. It is an English language discussion board. We are here to discuss the articles. We are free to express our opinion.
Do not ask what have we gained, perhaps yopu should be asking “what have you lost”, becaus e of kirchners? Have you ever thought of that? ANd yes you have the same right to tear into any and every countries culture, leadership, activities or lack of them, indebtedness, bankruptcy and refusals to pay back obligated debt. You even have the right to point to other countries leaders accused of embazzling government funds. You absolutlely have to right to lambast other countries president's for stealing individuals pensions and socialize them with nothing in return and not all that were taken were of wealthly people. And you can critize other presidents for stealing private coprorations than running them into the ground when foreign investment never materializes because the corporation they took were never compensated. Whether it is the lying of inflation stats, or refusal to compile criminal stats, I say tear into them, you have every right. If you do not like how the world percieves argentiina.....do something about it.......rid the world of the nits and lice known as kirchner's, otherwise........we have every right of free thinking individuals to say all that we please.....as do you.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here's something interesting.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently the conspiracy theorists are now suggesting that there was a plan for the frigate to try & leave port surreptitiously.
They go on to suggest that HMS Edinburgh, the Type 42 sent to replace HMS Dauntless (now returned to the UK) was diverted to the coast of Ghana & remained offshore for a while, until the Argentine Government decided against the escape plan & organised the return of the officer cadets.
They suggest that an MI6 officer called Horacio Verbitsky (?!) leaked the plan to intercept the frigate and force it to return to Tema.
The article is just too laughable for words, so you might care to have a quick guffaw at the Argies expense.
http://www.seprin.com/2012/11/12/confirmado-fue-una-operacion-de-inglaterra-y-sectores-de-ee-uu-la-incautacion-de-la-fragata-libertad/
It seems the latest Argentine tactic is to claim that they are the victim of a worldwide conspiracy that even involves Mitt Romney!
INFAMY, INFAMY - they've all got it in for me!
@68 - YOu argentines have just as much right to critise our country as we do yours. Though critising and making up flawed, false, inaccurate or baseless accusations or assumptions is not the same as critising, hell some argentine posters have even reverted to accusing other posters of being child molesters, one even was insultive about my partner and pet dog.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many argentine posters here are wrongly under the believe that the UK is Broke/Bankrupt, when we are no where near going broke nor are we bankrupt. Argentina on the other hand is heading towards economic collapse. We have been warning you argentines on here for over a year.
@68 LatestTrollincarnation
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“One has to question the sanity of every single Anti-Argentina poster here.”
Troll, nobody here is “anti-Argentina”, just anti-CFK, her corrupt government, and her propagandists, La Campora. Their agenda is anti-Falklands and anti-free speech.
We support the people of Argentina, the Workers and the Middle Classes, in their quest for an honest and responsible Government, from this day forward.
Good Luck Argentinians, we wish you the best!!
@69, 70, 73 Triple hi-five
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@73 I agree but the problem is the nationalistic indoctrination they receive from nursery school onwards. If you criticise one Argentine or one thing about Argentina, in their eyes you are criticising every Argentine and everything about Argentina. It is one of the keys to CFKC staying in power. Starting way back from Peron it means that no one wants to criticise their own government for fear of being labelled a traitor.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course, there are many intelligent Argentines that are free- thinking.
64 Sussie
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fragata “isn't” worth a damn!
@75
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Time to get more “pragmatic” about solutions to poor governance.
Yippee!!! Fireworks twice in one week, we are being spoilt :)
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@64 Sussie is a slag!
Nov 12th, 2012 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@68 You're a faggot. Go on, admit it. You're a faggot. We know you're an argie. So you're a faggot. Do you understand? A faggot is an ass-licking, cock-sucking, receptive butt. In other words, an argie. You want to know why your “troops” lost in '82? It was because they were really “busy”, sucking each other's cocks and shagging each other's butts. Threesomes were nothing. More like hundred and threesomes. And the officers got the youngest. Fresh, ripe, receptive. Remember how argie “troops” crapped everywhere? What would you expect when they've been “stretched” and “bored”? Who gave us “rights”? We did. For over a thousand years. We didn't whine that life was “unfair”. We didn't whinge about being “picked on”. We stood up for ourselves. We didn't attack people who hadn't attacked us. We wanted to trade. When people attacked our traders, we fought back. But then the French and the Spanish were always enemies. Cowardly, degenerate, perverted sub-human animals. Haven't changed much!
For the most part, argies need to recognise certain truths. Most argies aren't human. At best, they are sub-human. Is there an argie that doesn't deserve death? No, there isn't. Are argies important in the world? No, they aren't. Being barely sub-human, they should live where they belong - zoos. Slaughtered for pig-feed whenever necessary.
@75 And where are they? Are they speaking? Are they doing? Or are they just thinking? I can “think” anything I like. I “think” that Nick Clegg is a traitor and should be shot. I “think” that the EU is a corrupt organisation and everyone involved with it should be executed. And what good does what “I think” do? Listen argies. Get up off your backsides and “act”. Not what we think you are? Prove it.
It's sad to see the tone on these threads and some people representing the UK.
Nov 12th, 2012 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Guzz cry to “mommy” So, your a yank, or have been taught by a yank, what are you?
Nov 12th, 2012 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its their country, and they may do as they please,
Nov 13th, 2012 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0why dont CFK just pay the bloody money, and stop passing the buck,
or does she like being humiliated..
@81 FI
Nov 13th, 2012 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0the “GUZZ” persona is now banned on MP. LOL
Argentina wants to negotiate to relieve the 44 crew and replace them with others.
Hmmm, who would they send ?? Any bet they're a little more, “trained”?
Pirat-Hunter (ALEX VARGAS) could finally do something for his country.
Oh, no. That's right, he would rather shoplift near home,' in support of Argentina'. It's safer there.
Old Pirat Hunter is quite an ugly bugger, now I see why he is so twisted and sick. If I were as ugly as he is i think i would shoot myself :)
Nov 13th, 2012 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina news is like the comics section of the newspaper! HILARIOUS! Thanks for the laughs Argies!
Nov 13th, 2012 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 33 redpoll
Nov 13th, 2012 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Perhaps Cristina will now pick a quarrel with Denmark and Sweden on some trumped up issue.”
She could claim the Faeroe Islands from Denmark (after all, they are in the same ocean as Argentina) and the Gotland and Öland Islands from Sweden (after all, they are not in the same ocean as Argentina) and send the corvettes ARA Spiro and ARA Espora to conquer them - when the ships have been repaired in Africa. :) :)
“Ghana will insist in relocating Argentine frigate with a new court order”
Nov 13th, 2012 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now we will see, it all comes down to this. Argentina MUST know that Ghana will just take no notice of the foot stamping and toy throwing. so are they going to just accept that the ship will have to be moved, or are they going to do something stupid?
@71
Nov 13th, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wonderful article but totally off radar. It seems that this government can dig itslef into holes and stay there on its own...it really does not need our help
68 Nostrolldamus
Nov 13th, 2012 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't appear to understand how talk forums work.
When a poster has a complete meltdown like yours then everyone else gives a cheer and chalks up another victory.
Is it inconceivable to your mind that all the nations you listed take a dim view of Argentina because of.....wait for it.....(drum roll).........the statements and actions of the government of Argentina?
PSSSST, Sra. FK,
Nov 13th, 2012 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have a plan for you!. you want that ship? of course you want this old ARG pride bathtub. so Just do what the Israelis did back in in the early sixties....
They have STOLEN (yes! stolen) thier missile boats from Cherbourg shipyard docks under the French authorities nose...!!!
Here the complete story and plan!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherbourg_Project
(P.S: I am afraid that this s hole might take me seriously)
The same Israelis that stole Eichmann from Argentina.
Nov 13th, 2012 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0While the Israelis may be able to carry off such an operation with aplomb I'd expect the Argentine navy to crash the Libertad into the dock within five minutes of setting off.
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