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Gibraltar says UK diplomacy credibility must follow up words with actions

Saturday, November 17th 2012 - 05:42 UTC
Full article 46 comments

There was a marked escalation in the dispute over Gibraltar’s territorial waters as Britain and Spain both hardened their diplomatic stance in the wake of recent incursions. Read full article

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  • Betelgeuse

    The article fails to mention the critical fact that the UN continues to list Gibraltar as a territory that needs to be decolonised by the UK.

    It is pure obfuscation to insist, as the UK does, that the current inhabitants of Gibraltar have a right under the principle of self-determination to determine the nationality of the land they live in. Under international law there are territorial limitations to the right of self-determination for transplanted populations living in colonial enclaves where a pre-colonial claim of sovereignty exists. This is the case with Gibraltar.

    A coloniser cannot legally disrupt the territorial integrity of another State by implanting its own population unto the territory it is colonising. In cases such as these, the inhabitants of the territory have a right to have their ‘interests’ considered but they have no right to unilaterally determine the nationality of the land they live in.

    Both the UN and ICJ have confirmed that the principle of territorial integrity complements and constrains the right to self-determination in cases such as Gibraltar. This is the reason why the UN adopted Resolution 2353 (XXII), which observed that the referendum conducted by Gibraltar in 1967 was invalid.

    The UN has repeatedly invited the UK to participate in discussions to achieve the de-colonisation of Gibraltar. The UK has also failed to honour its commitments under the Brussels Agreement in regard to Gibraltar.

    Spain has never recognised British sovereignty over the Bay of Algeciras. Not surprisingly therefore, it will continue to ignore the protests of the colony of Gibraltar and its British Governor and continue to exert its sovereignty in any way it sees fit.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @1 you seem to forget 1 simple fact don't you - Self determination takes precendence over all and any territorial integrity claim!

    Another point i will make to you too is that Gibralter is that spain ceded to Britian by Treaty. Britain has had sovereignty of the Gibralter for a much longer period than what spain itself had sovereignty. Not only that, Spain conquered Gibralter themselves originally as gibralter was never originally a part of spain - or are you saying portugal is part of spain too under your territorial integrity logic!

    Therefore by your logic it would simply be a colony of spain to this very day if it had not been ceded to Britian by Spain, and also by your logic Portugal is part of Spain due to terriotrial integrity.

    God your an idiot, as that same argument would mean Argentina would have a claim under territorial integrity to Uruaguay, Brazil and Chile are you saying their citizens do not have the right to Self Determination either. Perhaps you missed Bi Ki Moons Statement earlier this week, which was published in Mercopress, where he clear said the people have the right to choose their own future, whether it be as an independant state or as part of sovereign territory of another state that they themselves have choosen to be part off. Gibralter had a refferendum and decided by a clear majority to remain as a british territory and the falklands will also do the same.

    Why don't you take the falklands matter to the ICJ, oh i forget we've asked you on a number of occasions but your so scared you'd lose you refused to accept the ICJ's jurisdiction!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @1

    You must have missed the bit where the Secretary-General of the United Nations blows all these stupid arguments out of the water.

    http://en.mercopress.com/2012/11/12/ban-ki-moon-and-colonialism-people-should-be-able-to-decide-their-own-future

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    Spain should partner with Argentina in this case and send her carriers and Argies frigates and soldiers to Dover to show how serious Britain situation is on these matter.

    The same actions should be taken in F@ckland Islands.

    A combination of Argies missiles and Spanish vessels will give to Britain a clear perspective of how fragile is her situation. Sure Italians will not hesitated to help to trash Britain and some tech support can be added.

    Unfortunately Germany sucks on these days and had forgot who have been their truly friend in hard times but I hope that this can be reverted ASAP.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @5

    Great idea, Dany. Recreate the fascist alliances of the 1930's. How did that work out for you last time?

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @4 Even if you actually had any carriers (last one you had was scrapped in 1999) Danyberger, they'd break down along with your ships and end up in an west african or a carribean port waiting for argentine to pay for the repairs, or for your creditors to find them and have them seized. Ohh by the way, Spain tried that before and look what happened we defeated their spanish armarda.

    Jesus research what vessels you have before threatening to send anything towards us!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Boovis

    Spain can't afford a war, and I think it might not go down too well if the 761,000 British people living in Spain suddenly packed up their investments and went home due to an attack on Gibraltar. Actually, that would be the final nail in the coffin. F*ck it, let's do it!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Not to mention the revenue that British tourist bring in to Spain. It is refreshing to see that they are doing well enough in the worlds current economic circumstances, to risk that revenue by pulling stupid stunts like these incidents. What? they think that diplomatic conflict with the UK is not going to effect that income, because if they do, they need to think again. FFS, 25% unemployment and they pull stunts like these. Clever, really. really clever!!!!!!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    An awful lot on Gibralter on this SOuth Atlantic site...

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Lol @ Danny.

    Spain and Argentina's forces are no match for the British forces and if Spain and Argentina wish to see their fleet at the bottom of the ocean then sure, send them over, we need some target practice. Although saying that we know Argentinian forces wouldn't make it more than 500 miles before giving up and going home (once their transport was repaired of course).

    The only clear message as ever would be how much superior British forces are and have been proven to be over the last few hundred years.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    “Spain should partner with Argentina in this case and send her carriers and Argies frigates and soldiers to Dover to show how serious Britain situation is on these matter.”

    HMMM Spanish warships off Dover, that has a familiar ring to it!
    AH, thats right the Spanish Armada, they did well didnt they!!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Did not do so well off Cape Trafalgar either!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Xect

    British army without Uncle SAM back is a cat in a zoo full of lions.

    And you were hardly hit last time do you want some images of that?

    Modern missiles are really bad thing for floating stuff...

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    DB
    Hillarious!

    Those pussy cats gave your brave lions a good kicking in a zoo of their own making.

    As for images, how does the image of 13.000 of your “finest” sneaking off British ships in the dead of night, in a neighbouring countries port, look like to you?

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Santa Fe

    Duny ... Now that would be funny to see, you may need to wait a few years to assemble your mighty fleet the Germans won't repair your mighty corvette until you show some dollar. and your carrier ran away last time didn't it??? So don't think we will panic just yet

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Frank

    Re the repair of the corvette... I see that KFC says all is going to plan and there is no issue re owing money to MTU. I think this is bullshit but assuming it is true then the delay in fixing the boat is down to it being that old that parts are unobtainable.

    Either way it is a joke navy.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Frank
    $450.000 seems to be a lot to pay for spare parts to me, if the figure is right, sounds like it is replacement equipment, more like a refit than a repair.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @1 Do you think anyone is gullible enough to believe your tripe? Shall I just poke a few holes? The UN does NOT list Gibraltar as a territory that needs to be decolonised by the UK. It's listed as “non-self-governing”. Not the same thing. Besides, decolonising isn't the same as “handing over to another power”. Spain won't ever get Gibraltar. There is NO pre-colonial claim of sovereignty. Spain ceded sovereignty to Britain IN PERPETUITY. Remember? The rest of your comment is pure hogwash. I can't be bothered to explain it all to you again because you don't listen. Stick yourself down as an uneducated fascist and leave it at that!
    @4 Fantasy land again? Argieland doesn't have any carriers. I suppose you could say that Spain has two. But it's kinda difficult to sink a Rock. But you think that Spain should start a war for you? You might want to consider that Britain has been fighting, and beating, Spain for hundreds of years. And we remember what happened when you losers tried! But if you really want to give Britain an excuse to use EVERY weapon in its arsenal.............
    @9 Then STFU!
    @13 Go for it then, and watch. To the best of my recollection, 3 WW2 vintage torpedos did for that heap of scrap you thought was a cruiser. Then everything else that floated ran away! Thanks for reminding us about modern missiles and “that floating stuff”. Those 2 Spanish “carriers” have a combined complement of 1,245. Think how happy the Spaniards will be when they lose that many people because of you. By the way, did you know that the UK now has no less than 5 different anti-ship missiles? Wouldn't that be around 1 for each of your “ships”? Why don't you get your mighty submarines out as well? We already potted one. Send out the three you have and we'll be able to see the effect of nuclear depth bombs!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    @13 modern missles you dick, you don't have any!!!!!!!!!!!! check out the last time your exocets were upgraded or even tested / maintained, they would probably blow up in the launcher, check out you tube for phalanx / goalkeeper against exocet only one loser and it's made in France (that's a clue)

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Conqueror

    Wars are good to reduce unemployment and to get out of economy mess.

    For one reason or another always will be some wars around, people will die anyway for one reason or another.

    Illegal drugs, legal drugs, alcohol, tobacco, sugar, trash food and car accidents kill more people that all war together.

    So let’s make some wars to stimulate the economy may be you are so lucky and Argies invade you and you will learn to speak Spanish, to dance tango and make good asados instead of such horrible food you use to eat every day.

    Think about it will be a win/win situation...

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    make wars, well that will be you surrendering before the first shot is fired, ever been in a war mate? If you had you wouldn't make a mockery of it. Rgenweener couldn't invade a toilet

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    DB
    Why not send your equipment to the scrappys, going to end up there anyway, just like the last lot.
    100 Mercedes-Benz MB 1112/13/14 trucks
    20 Unimogs
    20 Mercedes-Benz G-Class jeeps
    12 Panhard 90mm vehicles
    1 SAM Roland launcher
    3 SAM Tigercats launchers
    1 Improvised Exocet launcher
    3 CITER 155mm L33 Guns
    >10 Oto Melara 105mm cannons
    >15 Oerlikon twins 35 mm and Rheinmetall twin 20 mm air defence cannons
    1 AN/TPS-43 3D mobile air search radar
    >10 Skyguard, Super Fledermaus and RASIT fire control radars
    Blowpipes Manpads
    SAM-7 Manpads (bought in late May from Gaddafi's Libya)
    14 flyable helicopters (2 Agusta A109, 2 Bell 212, 8 UH-1H, 1 Chinook and 1 Puma)
    >10 FMA IA 58 Pucará
    1 Aermacchi MB-339
    Patrol boat Argentine Coast Guard GC82 Islas Malvinas renamed HMS Tiger Bay
    >11,000 personal weapons
    >4 million 7.62 munition rounds (10,500 from Goose Green)
    >11,000 105mm ammunitions

    I know a couple of Dids who will do you a good deal, Tarmac El Presidentes driveway at the same time, sort out her cladding!!!!!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LightThink

    11
    You should interest on your your own impurity rather than you dont know affairs by your tin comment name.

    Australian Army and Intelligence Services are working hand in glove in the development of a secret squadron to be used for spying activities all over Africa,This initiative is being carried out in close liasion with the USA. (not UK !)

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @Betelgeuse
    The UN lists many territories as “needing decolonising”, which were in fact decolonised some time ago. This is why the C24 cannot survive much longer.

    According to the UN all people have the right to self-determination, according to Ban-Ki Moon, all the non-self-governing territories have the right to self-determination, “be it independence or some kind of government in their territories”. He has repeated this many times now.

    Gibraltar was ceded to the British by the Spanish in perpetuity, therefore does not disrupt the territorial integrity of Spain, as by agreement of the Spanish it was no longer a part of Spain.

    As Gibraltarians are genetically mainly of Spanish origin, and Spanish speaking, I fail to see how you can call them “implanted”. Which incidentally coming from a Mapuche murdering Criollo Conquistador, S. American Planter, is hilariously funny to us.

    Like “but they have no right to unilaterally determine the nationality of the land they live in”. So it’s not Argentina that you live in then.

    The referenda in Gibraltar and in the Falklands are the basis on which the UN will eventually decide these territories are self-governing, whether you like it or not.

    Whether the Spanish recognise BG territorial waters or not is largely irrelevant, as the British will, if necessary, enforce it as they see fit. F*ck all the Spanish can do about it.

    Just as Argentina does not recognise the Falklands, but stays out of Falkland’s airspace and territorial waters, because the British enforce it.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    The Spannish are trying to act strong when the economy is looking weak. Just an excuse for the Spannish politicians to look credible when in fact they are just using Gibraltar as an excuse to hide away their economic woes. Just like Argentina and the Falklands.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    @23 well lightthink that's a stunner where did you drag that up from, and whats more if you believe it your even more stupid than you make out on here, anyway who cares we have James Bond, 007, Commander Royal Navy, so beat that loser, and my dads bigger than your dad........................numpty

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @9 - BK, perhaps you should have a look at the international news section of the website before assuming this is a site for only south american news!

    Heres a step by step inguide on how to find the international section!

    1 scroll to the top of the page
    2 move your mouse pointer over “regions”
    3 a menu box will open shoing the regions, under the Falklands Islands you will see International. Click it and hey press duh... Your in the international news section of the site!!!

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LightThink

    - 26
    ,and my dads bigger than you dad.......

    where did you learn this infamous english..
    you should use -- older * instead of -- bigger*

    how many dads do you have ?*

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    no bigger dickhead, and just the one, the saying is probably to complex for you to understand, still we live in hope, although I won't hold my breath where you're concerned

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Santa Fe

    23...sounds interesting any details on this??? Or is it so secret that only you know about it?

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LightThink

    -- 29

    ..., still we live in hope,....

    means that you live in - Cape of Good Hope -- !

    I comprehend your distress of the living in a hard society like South Africa.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    “”“Spain should partner with Argentina in this case and send her carriers and Argies frigates and soldiers to Dover to show how serious Britain situation is on these matter.

    ”“””

    didnt they try that once? I believe it came off about as well as the argentine invasion of the falklands in '82... cant remember the name now though.... spanish armada maybe?

    - - -

    @ 1 Betelgeuse (#)

    “”“This is the case with Gibraltar.”“””

    yeah, uhm...you kinda missed the rather important fact that Spain gave up this bit of land, legally, and that Ban-ki is the Fat Lady...and he aint singing Evita OR La Marcha Real.

    who teaches current affairs over there fcol?

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Santa Fe

    31.... So that's a no then...another made up story as delboy would say quel suprizee

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    4 DanyBerger

    LOL!!!!!!! Oh joy!!! Thank you for that!! I laughed so hard that a little bit of wee came out!!! Really, thanks I needed the laugh!!!

    1 Betelgeuse

    Meanwhile, on planet Earth...............

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    First of,
    What we or the UN call Gibraltar, has nothing to do with anybody else,

    The Spanish nave has an old out dated little carrier, and no destroyers,
    Like CFK they are trying to distract attention from the mess they are in, and once again they turn against the British,

    You don’t see Greece or Italy or Portugal acting like children do you.

    The only hope you and Spain has, is [sadly] Mr Euro man himself mr Cameron
    He has no wish to upset his political masters in Europe,,
    Still,
    One more intrusion and we will find out if mr Cameron is shaken but not stirred
    Or just plain old cold milk….
    .

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Mr Hornblower!!!!
    Give the Dons a whiff of grape, if you please.
    Aye, aye Cap'n.
    Run out the larboard battery, fire as she bares!!!!!
    Come about and give her the stern chasers,
    Standbye to board Mr, board her, I say,
    Nice bit of prize money, I shouldn't wonder!!!!

    Whoops, sorry about that, got carried away. Been reading too much CS FORESTER.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    I say we should send the Dauntless or Daring their to patrol the Gibralter Strait and Gibralter waters, If not either of them two are available then the Edinburgh should be kept in service after it returns from the south atlantic patrol to be permentantly based in Gibralter with a crew rotation.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    THE last of the Royal Navy’s six new Type 45 destroyers has set sail on a second stage of sea trials.
    , HMS Duncan will undertake final testing of the ship’s power and propulsion,
    http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/navy-s-newest-destroyer-begins-final-sea-trials-1-4496712
    .

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Read it, I see from the article that, Lt commander Molyneuax was awarded the George Medal Posthumously. A brave man and a credit to his service, my thoughts are with his wife and family. The award will not bring him back, I hope the recognition of his courage will help ease their grief at his tragic loss.

    Nov 17th, 2012 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    ”Australian Army and Intelligence Services are working hand in glove in the development of a secret squadron to be used for spying activities all over Africa,This initiative is being carried out in close liasion with the USA. (not UK !)”

    Australia views its foreign policy through the prism of friends and allies (of which the UK is one) not former colonial masters. This is a concept that is clearly foreign to some folk, but perhaps they should adjust their attitudes and bring some heavy thinking (rather than light thinking) to there international policies and relations.

    Nov 18th, 2012 - 06:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Santa Fe

    40... He's quoted a pack of lies again I imagine he believes in alien abduction as well , good win in the Rugby!!! Must be those stupids shirts England were wearing

    Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    What the hell happened there, bloody horrible shirts. Bring back national clours for god sake, Wales in red, England in White, France in blue, Scotland in darker blue and so on.

    Nov 18th, 2012 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LightThink

    -- 40

    read again my post and think seriously
    You dont live in a Commonwealth Country.

    i never talk about Aussie foreign policy
    only talked about Aussie Army/Secret Services affairs.

    Do you want to learn their other secret artifices. ?

    Nov 18th, 2012 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Santa Fe

    43... No not when you make things up no ta.

    no evidence to back your fantasy posts.. Do Campora work on Sundays??? Or is it Monday already in SA, maybe Think or one of his multiple troll logins may tell us jajaja

    Nov 18th, 2012 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • PGH

    Warmonger (war·mon·ger, noun): one who urges or attempts to stir up war.

    Mr. Picardo seems to confuse diplomacy with something else.

    Nov 20th, 2012 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Teaboy2

    @43 What makes you think Downunder doesn't live in a commonwealth country?

    Considering the term Downunder is widely used to describe australia here in england, the by australians, then its highly likely Downunder is in Australia which is a commonwealth country. Or do you seriously expect us to believe you have some inside intelligence knowledge that tells you downunder is not all as he seems to be? Would that same insider intelligence be the one you used to come to the wrongful conclusion that i conquer, chris, danyberger (who is an argentine) are one and the same person, all because you yourselve use multiple usernames.

    Ohh i get it, your assumptions are based on poor logic, you think because you use multiple usernames that everyone else does too, and therefoe you think, that because you don't live in a commonwealth country, that know one elses does either!

    Retard lol

    Nov 20th, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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