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Montevideo, December 9th 2022 - 01:39 UTC
Argentine Economy Minister Hernán Lorenzino assured during a press conference on Thursday that paying off the vulture funds is illegal, and said that the ruling by US District Judge Thomas Griesa against Argentina is unfair. Read full article
So basically Argentina is saying we gave an option to people to either accept payments from us on a heavily reduced level, or choose not to, however if they chose the second option then we would say they were vultures and refuse to pay them anything at all. The fun thing is, that even if Argentina does reject these payments and gives nothing, well that just means that no boat or plane will ever be able to leave Argieland again, for fear of it being impounded. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, indeed.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! ITS SO UNFAIR!
Have Argentina learned some humility? Requesting instead of 'demanding' and 'insisting'.
No didn't think so.
Is it me or is he looking a little tired and hunted??
oooohhhh I bet KFC / TMBOA / Asslips Fernández / TMBOA / The Harpy has had a little talk with him as well as Laughing boy Timerman.
Is it true the rumour that CFK is losing her hair and Lorenzino is being forced to grow his so that she can use it as hair extensions?
”Who is going to accept a debt restructuring, with significant cuts and 30 years long term if with time, patience, good lawyers and a permeable judge they can collect the full face value of the bonds?”
Maybe people will restructure more carefully, without writing blank cheques as part of the process.
Maybe people will accept their responsibilities as an issuer of debt, and see vulture funds as the price they have to pay for not managing their finances conservatively, so avoid putting themselves in a position to have to restructure.
Maybe they won't issue debt in the first place if they have any doubts about their ability to repay it.
All these things make the market more efficient, and I think we can ALL agree that what the world needs right now is better fiscal management. This should be a nice case study to educate undergrads in established and emerging markets.
Argentina is officially finished! PLEASE INVADE OUR COUNTRY AND TAKE US OVER CHILE, UK, URUGUAY, USA.......SOMEBODY PLEASE!!
Does anyone know where the rumours of the $45bn reserves came from?
It's still not clear whether they can't pay or won't pay
Good luck with that!
I am pretty sure the Judge knows where and when he can rule.
RGs are arrogant retards
Pay up and go away
Apparently it's juducial colonialism
Anything they don't like is always dismissed with their favourite three words. Colonialism, piracy and sovereignty.
But remember that AG put in their original moan to the court at 15 min to midnight and yet this prat claims:
”Lorenzino also complained that contrary to what is normal and customary, “we received the Judge’s decision by e-mail at a very unusual time, very late at night”. He added that nine presentations were made between last Friday and Monday, that is 48 hours, in which they were analyzed and the decision came in yesterday (Wednesday) at last moment, and since today is a holiday in the US, it means the ruling only took 48 hours”.
So, as usual, it's OK for AG to piss about at the last minute but not for the judge to send his email out late, even though he was going on holiday?
I should think that Judge Griesa is absolutely fed up with all the challenges on the most spurious of grounds that this bunch of wannabe crooks foist upon him.
And now they are saying he does not have the power to judge in his own court.
”Judge Griesa doesn't have the power to define this current situation”.
Then what the hell are your lawyers doing in his court????????????????????????
They fail to state that in all other situations, the haircut on the debt is negotiated to a level with which both parties are comfortable. Argentina seems to have this childlike idea that, in a negotiation, you get everything you want and the other side get nothing. Strangely, when you become an adult one of the first things to realise is that, in a negotiation, you are going to have to give some things up to get what you want. Until they understand this they are going to find life on the international stage very difficult.
Just off topic a bit, though worth mentioning. I see the trade surplus once again is continuing the trend and down 50% to just over 500 million and steel production down 18%. I think the nails in her coffee are being hammered on all cylinders.
She sets a bad example to other countries that can pay, but wont pay,
If she was owed money???
It would be different would it not..
PLEASE INVADE OUR COUNTRY AND TAKE US OVER CHILE, UK, URUGUAY, USA.......SOMEBODY PLEASE!!
I dont think anybody would be very interested to be honest. :-|
oh dear, oh dear, oh dear
and how does dragging out the inevitable help confindence in investment into argentina? the argentine government are so stupid they believe holding out will gain them international sympathy and get off with a slapped wrist, meanwhile in reality investors present and not in any seeable future will be taking note of the out of control Risk factor brought on by the menopausal Kirchner regime, and take their capital somewhere safer like north korea, somalia, or nevadas nuclear test site.
Honestly Uruguay and Chile look the best bet in the whole of S.A. by a long shot.
Argentina - What a complete f*ck Up! and its hard to see it getting any worse but im sure Princess C will find a way. :)
! Vote Crustina ! (it may be the last time argentines get to vote)
Does anyone know where the rumours of the $45bn reserves came from?
Yes I do.
Cristina Fernandez Kirchner - President of Argentina, during her visit to speak at Harvard University.
So either Argentina has the US$45 billion reserve and just won't pay....or the US$45 billion doesn't exist and they can't pay making CFK a LIAR.
Any bets on which one it is? ;)
The BBC seem to think that this ruling will seriously prejudice the ability of nations in trouble to re-structure their debts.
It thinks this would be 'a bad thing'.
It does not consider that those making the loans want their money back with the loan interest.
Perhaps the BBC thinks that failure to pay what you owe is not such a 'a bad thing'.
Yes, the BBC is in serious trouble and is edging even further to the Left with it's new top appointment.
I believe the concept of sovereignty is outdated in many ways and that this change will be a good thing making governments more responsible. The world is now so intertwined that it is much easier to sanction a nation without going to war.
What is it with this thing? if with time, patience, good lawyers and a permeable judge they can collect the full face value of the bonds?”, asked Lorenzini Really? So with time (how long?), patience (don't bother us, we're busy stealing more money), good lawyers (loadsa money) and a permeable judge (does that mean corrupt? Or stupid?), they can collect the full face value of the bonds? To whom is he offering the full value of the bonds? The bondholders who accepted the haircut as a means of getting some of their money back? Desperate rearguard action. Do we have an American who can comment on this request? Is it similar to asking permission to appeal in the UK? Can the Court simply say No. Let's see argieland stitched, sewn and buried.
Slightly different topic but we've obviously tried to get US$ out of Argentina as my wife's mum used to send them over. She is not longer allowed and, even with my highly creative ways of hiding cash, we still haven't managed.
Question: How does CFK get money to her daughter who is studying in the US when it is impossible to send it through the banking system. If anyone can tell me I'd be interested to know as I will use the same method in future
a crook like Lorenzino and his fellow gang members feels treated illegaly because he has stolen money and becomes sued by the victim and condemned by the court. that is his meaning of arschistic justice. welcome in north korea, somalia pirates and other robber gangs. and ck!
It's just a stalling tactic that will not really work. The Appellate Court already ruled and upheld the lower courts ruling. The only place now is the Supreme Court of the United States and that is not a given. SCOTUS will only take maybe 90 cases out of as many as 10,000 requested for a judiciary. And all of these request have been submitted already and the Justices clerks are reading and writing summaries of all the requests. They have certain criteria for accepting a case. Even at that, the new session will not start until September 2013 when they announce the cases they will review. I assume what they will try and do is ask SCOTUS for a stay until SCOTUS decides if they are taking the case. In theory, assuming they submitted their appeal to SCOTUS and if a SCJ grants a stay, they can milk this until September 2013 when they anonounce the SCOTUS case reviews. If they accept it....they buy even more time, if not.......it all ends there from the judiciary POV. The likihood of they getting this case reviewed at best......nil to minimal, they chances of getting a stay.....I would suggest they buy some lottery tickets.
You can't make this UP!
Here we have the Brits parroting away at Argentina for defying judge's orders and rulings. Hot of the presses (not news from 70 years ago, from TODAY:)
Can we all let out one big... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Brits, obey the rulings of the EU which you signed up to obey, you flouters of international law. Any further proof the UK is a rogue state? (remember the Iraq invasion).
WHo the FUCK in their right mind would allow prisoners....incarcirated criminals the right to vote!!!
We do not allow it in the USA and never will. When you commit a crime, you actions alone signify that you are living outside the rules of society. When you are convicted of a crime, you not only lose your right to freedom, but all actions accorded to a free living person living within the rules of a given society. Prison is your chance to pay the price of your burden to society and redeem yourself WHEN you are released. Britain, do not change your position for criminals.
Now back on topic your idiot #25 titti boi.........missing mommas nipple?
don´t forget the amicus curie letter of the us-government. the scotus sits near by the government and i think everthing to be possible in the us-administration, even a humilitation of the lower court under Griesa.
that is what ck and her gang are praying for to their arg god.
25 Nostrolldamus The 2nd
oh wow......................... didn't see that attempt at distratction coming....... and you mention Iraq ( again ) never heard that one before....... ( Yawn )
So...what about all this money that Argentina borrowed and is now not willing to pay back???
Not the point, and no cares about your USA/UK values. They signed up to agree to certain common rules and human rights, did the UK with the EU. They are OPENLY saying they will defy it... When a country defies the international community, especially when they are part of an entity and they refuse to agree to what they signed... THEY are rogues, and are violating court rulings, end of story.
As Idleheads said @20, the concept of sovereignty is outdated. The UK must obey this ruling and that's that, because any person arrested in the UK from other countries must have the protections promised by the EU.
Or didn't the UK recently NEGATE the extradition of a person to the US because of fears of the US system, which from the UK point of view seems archaic, barbaric, and Hammurabian?
Oh, check mate.
The UK disobeys the court order, they are rogues. No buts.
As for the USA, why do you think every country on Earth is more and more refusing to extradite people to your corrupt justice system? Gosh you had an industry of putting INNOCENT TEENAGERS IN JAIL SO THAT THE JUDGES AND THE CORRECTIONS FACILITIES INCREASED THEIR PROFITS!!!
How more putrid and immoral can you get. No one respects the American justice system. It's all about eye for an eye, retaliation, and revenge, not civilized justice.
Judge Griesa being exhibit A, because he decides that the words of one woman change his ruling. So much for justice is blind statues you showcase in your pathetic excuses for courthouses.
Recapping: UK is now at the level of Argentina, congratulations.
@29 Nostrolldamus The 2nd
Has anyone explained the concept of derrogation under EU law to you?
Stop making excuses and trying to find wiggles, that's the same old tactic that makes you look like... well, Argentine government politicians.
There is no such thing as derrogation when it comes to orders that applie to the entirety of the EU, especially when your country is a signatory that recognizes the legitimacy of such courts.
30 Welsh Wizard
You know what matey? even if you did explain it to him ( in words of no more than 4 letters, just so's to be sure that he DID understand ) he would move on to another argument of half-truths and mis information. Standard Troll tactic.
I wouldn't worry about him really, he's just f**ked himself on another thread and then landed here..... always first at getting it wrong.
@31 yes there is. Go away and do your reading. I am currently involved in one at present...
#29 n check mate the words of truth telling troll....why do you change your name to often, emabassment or frustration?
Hey....question titti boi.....can you give me the number of extradictions requested by the USA of foreign counties in total and to total denied and to denied allowed? I would have to say with out that source you were pulling your head frm your ass again.. You read too much at the camp titti boi. I really think you were safer to yourself when you were suckling mommas teat. You really were weaned too early.
you will never get a truthful answer as to why the keep changing their names
It is called the European Court of Human Rights, another reason why we should get the Fuck out of there.
This morning on the News I watched an ex con, ranting on about how his human rights had been infringed by being denied the vote whilst he was inside.
You know why the Mother F***** was in prison? He killed a woman with an axe!!!!!!!!
I fucking ask you, his rights! what? I suppose the loved ones of his victim can vote for her in absentia?
It's crazy Reality.....we have the ACLU American Civil Liberties Union trying to get criminals voting rights. Mayby petty criminals in jail for a few months for drugs or NOT PAYING THEIR DEBTS, non felonious criminals.....but pedophiles and rapists.....serial killers....can you imagine voting rights forsomeone that has killed 20 or 30 people.......or worse....some sick 40 year old pervert that goes around sodomizing 8 year old boys!!!
No.....as I said....they gave up these rights just like the right to drive a car or walk to the bar for an ale when they started commiting crimes.
You hear that titti boi? Pedophiles, rapist and murderers do nopt get the right to vote.,
It is called the European Court of Human Rights, another reason why we should get the Fuck out of there.
But if you don't leave and you defy the ruling, you are violating a judge's orders.
Simple as that.
But if you don't leave and you defy the ruling, you are violating a judge's orders.
Simple as that.
WHile you are attempting to make a point, that other countries disregard law. Can you point out in the Court's charter that they have absolutely authority and legal conveyance to enforce their rulings? What article and section?
Does anyone else see the irony in the last post?
Seems to be, if some one committed murder, then he would have to do the same,
Just make the same point.
We thinks he will find out, the brit all ways play ball,
But they have no right to tell us how to run our country.
you sound more stinky than ever
Love the childish name. Mummy and Daddy know your on the computer?
They do if you wish to keep things like extradition rights and the rights to detain other EU citizens.
That is our one and only sussie. La campora 's crazy little uncle they keep in the attic and let oout every now and then. Funny thing a few articles back, sussie got the pirate hunter in a tizzle she is so crazy......lol
@29 Drivel, drivel, drivel. Go away and learn about LAW!
@38 A few small points. The European Court of Human Rights is an organ of the Council of Europe. Nothing to do with the EU. The ECtHR has no means of enforcing its rulings. Prior to the introduction of the Human Rights Act 1998, the ECtHR could not interfere in the UK judiciary or its actions. The UK Parliament has been determined to be sovereign. The UK Parliament that criminals, such as argies, will not have a vote. The ECtHR cannot enforce fines. The ECtHR cannot enforce the payment of compensation. The UK is so much better at the LAW than argie dummies or European numpties. In point of fact, there are grounds for indicting the so-called justices of the ECtHR for interfering in the sovereign rights of a sovereign state. Admit that you know nothing about REAL law. Don't bother to rely on corrupt argie law. Want to go for the unconstitutional expropriation of YPF without prior compensation? Try to understand that WE have a couple of thousand years more experience and knowledge of law than you do. And we created most of it anyway!
@44 Watch and learn?
perhaps a copleat mess up,
the sooner we get out the better,
it could be a waring to you guys if you go down the same road with mercosure
Sorry, you saying that the EU decides what rights we can and can not keep?
The ECtHR has no means of enforcing its rulings
That reminds me, about Judge Griesa's rulings...
Then, as I said before, why you sending exspensive lawyers to his court?
Silly me, they haven't realised yet, that you aint going to pay their fees!
What does tea have to do with coffee?
Nothing, but you still can have them for breakfast.
It is common sense to try to win the legal battle to settle the issue for good, but if not... then you just ignore the court. It has no power to force Argentina, none. jojojo
#49.....correct so why spend 500 per hour for a slimey lawyer? Assuming he is giving you a discount and they ALL work on retainers......no send me the bill in the USA.
The US courts can't send you to jail for not following the judges order, you Argentina's action, or lack of actions will set off a chain reaction of events and the ones hurt in the short and long run will be ARgentina and her people.
Seems that Argentina is fucked what ever it does.....not pay NML and she defaults, pay NML, chances are there is not enough to pay the restructured bond holers, if there is enough, it paves the way for all the other hold outs.
Oh may.......a conundrum!!
could not the US have her arrested if she steps upon US soil.
after all, the ball ends with her does it not.
Up shit stream without a paddle, a hole in boat and no one will lend them a bucket.
Hows that for an anology.
Argentina won't get punished because no one can do nothing about it. Worst case scenario you get La Libertad, Tango 01, and Messi...
At best that amounts to 15 million for the sea vessel, 75 million for the air vessel, and 44 million a year for the pitch vessel.
or sitting on an ice cube, slowly moving towards warmer waters.
Naw....she is a state leader, we would not do that, our government would not let that happen either.
Tobias...you are correct in the no one can do nothing.
I assume you are not in argentina so you could care even less.
If you are in argetnina you are a paid ass troll
you are in argentina and they avergae poor argento, and will never noticed the difference as you are quite content eating on your 10 pesos a day
Argentina is operating under default now. There is no difference.
I understand mercopress is paraphrasing Argentina's Norm MacDonald, but does this minister say how paying the holdouts is 'illegal'? Yucky, perhaps, but- no one- has said paying them is not legal.
You definitely do not live in argentina then. Move there and watch the shit storm fall starting in a few weeks. The real impact will start to be felt in early January.
*Kevin Nealon http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/090915/SNL/Kevin-Nealon_l.jpg
Keep up the fight Argentina, the vultures can't be allowed to win. What a weird conspiracy theory btw, by the guy who says Cristina wanted the Griesa ruling!
#22 What a ridiculous question, she can't be the only Argie parent with a child studying abroad. How do all the others do it, without having any state power to abuse?!
31 Nostrolldamus The 2nd
oh dear!! b*tch slapped again!!
Had enough humilation or are you ready for some more?
US State and Prez would never allow Argentina go unpunished if they chose to ignore the US courts. There are lot and lot of avenues open to them to make life very difficult for the citizens and rulers.
It is extreme but we could always stop your ability to us U$ in trade. It usually reserved for Isolated countries but if that is what you are shooting for have at it. I'm sure CFk will be gone long before it comes to that though. She is just about done anyway.
% times I asked you BK .....6, why are the vulture funds? Argentina cannot be allowed to survive for taking other peoples money and not paying it back. Ordinary people put money in investment funds, she fucked not only rich people . You borrow money, you pay it back......kirchner cannot be allowed to get allow with it.....period.
Not to mention the fact it's dishonourable and dishonest, but what the fuck! if they do not care about the very name of Argentina to be associated with those two concepts, then why the fuck should we?
I am starting to think that nestor and cuntina had to be sado-masochist. No can do this much damage to themselves unless they enjoy it. She loves be paddled!
If CFK mar, hugo the bear,
cant she claim half his fortune to help pay her debts.
What a picture! Lorenzino hanging upside down from the ceiling in the presidential dungeon, whilst CFK, dressed from head to foot in leather, light blue and white of course. with the map of Los Malvinas on her back, flogs his ass, saying, You know what you will say next time slave.
Lorenzino replying, ”Yes madam president, pleases may (courtesy of Blues Brothers) may I have another.”
Good grief!!!! I never applied an image!!
On the serious side, I have no idea what they think they are appealing to ....again, other then SCOTUS. The 2nd Appellate already ruled in Griesa's favor. Though...and they do it in death penalty cases, seek an emergency temporary injunction from a SCOTUS justice, based on significant new information that may alter the outcome, assuming they can get an appeal or a new hearing, which is unlikely.
@ 29 Nostrolldamus The 2nd
... Brits, obey the rulings of the EU which you signed up to obey, you flouters of international law.
What you obviously do NOT know about the European Union is
1. that in the 1992 treaty it was specified that any issue, which could be solved on the local level was to be solved there, the locality principle
2. the union is not and cannot be above a member country's parliament, a question of constitutions.
The 1989 argentine economic crisis made Chile reach Argentina in the per capita GDP.
The 2002 argentine economic crisis / default then made Brasil overtake Argentina in the per capita GDP.
The 2013 argentine default is gonna make Peru and even Ecuador overtake Argentinain the per capita GDP?
What Argentina fails to accept and why the SCOTUS will not accept this case, why the International Court will not rule in favor of Argentina is because this ruling has minimal to no impact on newer bond issues. The pari passu clasue is all but eliminated and newer clauses defined to allow for restructuring. Get over Argentina ....the choices are simple......pay your legitimate debts for the money you took in from the lenders. You will always have the credit system because you were too corrupt to properly manage your debt and payments.
Just like Spain,
CFK would rather see the break up of their country, than drop their stupid out dated imperialistic ambitions.
Is this not looking more and more truer,
As more regions look elsewhere for true leadership.
Peronism is killing Argentina
75 Captain Poppy
Peronism HAS killed Argentina, they just don't realise it yet. But as you say, come the New Year, come all the problems at once.
The level and amount of shit piling up at one time. I am heading after the holiday!!
#73 The pari passu clasue is all but eliminated and newer clauses defined to allow for restructuring
Why's that then, because they recognise the dangers Cristina is talking about perhaps? So why cause Argentina to implement a systemt hats been agreed to be wrong, and destroy itself. If one doesn't actually WANT Argentina destroyed, there must be some way round Griesa's destructive technicality...
@BK, that's called rewriting the law, by legislators. And that's completely doable.
Griesa seems like a good honest member of the -judicial- branch, that interprets -existing- law. (Interestingly, I just read that Argentina has NEVER argued in U.S. court that the resale funds were illegal.)
So this is a GREAT proposal! BK for nations (The change of admin required may be controversial): http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2012/nov/25/greece-debt-crisis-didnt-need-to-be-this-bad?cat=commentisfree&type=article
Because most intelligent governments read the fine print. Regardless why it was there......it IS there. Argentina took the money now they need to pay it back. The law is the law....ways of helping cristina.....she is the one that has stomped on toes, yelled screamed.....she has no clue as to what diplomacy means.
#79 Excellent article!
Chris you get the impression argentina is spinning faster and faster? Now Paraguay discovers oil on the border. Maybe a new borders war.
82 Captain Poppy
Paraguay didn't do very well in the last war they fought, but Argentina is a push over compared to Chile so I just cannot see even TMBOA starting one.
I think, Chris,
that the UN would intervene with a predominantly LatAm peace-keeping force (CH/MEX/COL/etc), if AR/VE/BO/(BR)/(UR) crossed the border ..... but they would have to be quick, because it would be all over bar the shouting before a UNSC special committee could be convened.
The UK could help save PA by making the Falkland garrison available for UN deployment ;)
With the way Mercosur members treated Paraguay and chubby chavo being the new big daddy, I can see them taking advantage of a weaker nation.
I was not actually joking when I suggested that AG may attack on its own, BUT I note your point about a gang of them turning up. Surely you are not suggesting Uy would get involved?
Hi Chris @#86.
No, hence the brackets, but there are 'defense' agreements via Unasur that may translate into surrogate support.
Like Russia supplying China in Korea, VE and (others?) might feel duty -bound to supply AR with weapons and 'advisors', as it externalises its internal problems with an easier target than TFI.
I get it now, thanks.
Mind you, if AG did ever try to take Paraguay your idea of using the Falklands Defence Force against them is an excellent one that would really help with the UKs relationship.
I think probably 2 Typhoons, a Ghurkha force (the AGs HATE the thought of them) a Type 45 and an Astute would be more than enough to send the AG crap-hoppers back home with their heads in their hands (kukris are lethal) ;o)
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