MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina prepares for the ‘mother of all battles’ against ‘holdout’ bondholders
Argentina has made its final written arguments ahead of a February 27 US courtroom showdown against “holdout” bondholders demanding full payment of capital plus interests for sovereign debt from the default of more than a decade ago. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAurelius Capital Management and NML Capital Ltd are not at fault here,its the ones who allowed Argentina to steal 70% of their money who should be ashamed,allowing Argentina to renege on their obligations will do the country no good in the long run it could of been rescheduled over a longer term and easily dealt with.
Feb 04th, 2013 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0lf you cant pay it back, don't borrow in the first place.............simple, no?
Feb 04th, 2013 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow!!!!!! The people who actually want a decent amount of money back are now 'hold out bondholders', not vulture funds, pirates, or death star thieves.
Feb 04th, 2013 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now all we need is for equal treatment of Argentina, with the poor sods they owe money to. They know (or at least have a fair idea) that because they are a country their assests are safer than for the rest of us plebs. This should not be the case for these thieves.
The VF are not going to be paid on their terms just 25% or nothing.
Feb 04th, 2013 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0We shall see Dany eh!
Feb 04th, 2013 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Believe it or not but I don't support the funds, however CFK has created a big problem with her bad behavior that may in turn drive the US to support the funds. She has very badly mismanaged this issue which may create the opportunity for the funds to take down Argentina.
A rather unfortunate phrase“mother of all battles”
Feb 04th, 2013 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0The last person who used this was sent for a short drop through a trap door
4 dany berger
Feb 04th, 2013 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0And your justification is?????
You know it is not just the billionaires that want their money back it is 1000s of Argentinian, German, Italian, Japanese bondholders too.
Feb 04th, 2013 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People's life savings STOLEN so the Ks can line their pockets.
We shall see shortly how this comes out.
The tide is not with CFK.
“Anything else is not equal treatment, but a preference that would violate Argentine law and public policy as well as fundamental principles of inter-creditor equity,” it argued.“+
Feb 04th, 2013 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So! There is a special ”argentine law“ and ”public policy“ to pay debts! this law is not like the general law in the whole world, to pay contractual debts as they are signed in bonds. and to say ”we give up our rights of immunity“ can be said and forgotten. this is what the argentine governmental finance gang makes the gangsters to butts of jokes.
ck is that crazy that she expects the whole world has to follow her fantastic fantysies of right and honor in her favour. and her gang members follow like puppets. once they are out of government they will say: ”It´s not our fault. We had to do what ck said. Otherwise she would have cut our cash flow.”
God bless the bondholders screw these bastard Argentine robbers for every last $$$$ plus more.
Feb 04th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1
Feb 04th, 2013 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is what usually happens when a country defaults. If you are a creditor and those who owe you go bankrupt you settle for what you can. It is one of the risks in investing.
@2
Very true, but governments don't act like individuals. It is the same with the EU nation defaults (Greece, Ireland, etc). The bond holders have all had to take a “haircut” as they say, i.e. get a fraction of their investment back.
@3
In the case of NML, they purchased Argie debt when the country was on the brink of default in order to acquire it at give-away prices. It is precisely what they specialize in doing and it is by nature very high risk.
@8
“You know it is not just the billionaires that want their money back it is 1000s of Argentinian, German, Italian, Japanese bondholders too.”
Very true. I feel very sorry for these people.
...
In general there is nothing special about investors losing money on investments that go bad. Argentina has respected the repayments on the re-structured debt which is all it is obliged to do.
I sincerely hope NML does not receive a cent. As I have mentioned before, the British government has been at the forefront of curtailing the actions of investors like NML and should be praised for that.
@11 re your point @2 above - this is true but with other cases there is a period of negotiation and a price is then decided upon. The trouble here is that Argentina gave a take it or leave it offer. This goes against the concept of negotiating in good faith and is not normal for restructuring of this type. The court could take this into account but it would probably be balanced out against your point @3 above (whereby NML didn't really buy the debt in good faith).
Feb 04th, 2013 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interestingly, sovereigns have had a pretty decent time of it in restructurings recently as the power has been weighted on their side slightly more. If they are ruled against the power will then swing back towards investors. In effect, Argentina will make it harder to do what they did (and what they suggest other nations should do) by not settling up and taking this to court. This is based on my reading of this from an English law perspective rather than US which does not invoke the concept of equity to the same extent...
#5 I agree with you that I think the VF way needs to be addressed, however the way asslips handled it was all wrong. Again shooting themselves in the feet.
Feb 04th, 2013 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clyde, yes it is rather Husseinish to be speaking like that. I think the peronists are hanging out with the Iranians and Syrians too much.
We all need to remember that the re-educated, like danburger does not speak for the asslips administration. How many times has she ate what she speaks? Danburger speaks from a wishful POV. We are less than 4 weeks away from seeing a real path to what will play out for Argentina's future.
@13 all good observations & welcome back!
Feb 04th, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina prepares for the ‘mother of all battles’
Feb 04th, 2013 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[Only if it tells the truth ]
.
In the end Argentina will have to negotiate with the holdouts or be shut out of the world's financial markets. It is plain to anyone with a double digit IQ that whatever gobbledygook economic measures they have taken in the last 10 years is all for bought and descending into chaos.
Feb 04th, 2013 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the SOY and Corn crop is an bad as the whispers there won't be enough U$ for fuel. It is as simple as that.
Ask North Korea how nice it is there I am sure Kim will tell you it is perfect.
1-VF never lent money to Argentina
Feb 05th, 2013 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 02-They bought the bonds from pensions funds using their power of coercion making think them that will never get any cent for ARG bonds and they bought them given bond holders a tremendous haircut from 15 to 20% of the nominal price.
3-Are they capitalist? So welcome to the game, their bet was wrong and in capitalism when you make a wrong decision you have to pay the consequences. Right? So why are they crying then?
4-Argentina from 2001 to 2003 was in her knees GDP drops to 100bn dollars from 350bn, 53% of the population was under the line of poverty, major part of the industrial sector was closing down factories or moving abroad.
Now in 2013 Argentina has a nominal GDP bigger than half trillion dollar, does not need foreign capital to grow, unemployment is historic low records, salaries have rose, etc, ect.
5-Argentina keeping this policy in 10 years a head will become one of the major economies in the world.
6-Sorry idiots but sure you will feel frustrated because your forecast of Argentina destruction and economic disasters never materialise but yes in your own shitty countries.
7-We will see in the near future what USA and UK will do when the same forces that have been attacking ove SA and especially over Argentina goes for your own flesh. They even have started yet.
For me will be a lot of laugh and I will be the one to encourage VF to don’t let the idiots to get away without paying in full all their debt. Because the jealous idiots deserve that and to be starved because their level of stupidity is so huge that the only way to learn is through pain.
8- But don’t worry argies are a very generous people and sure will allow you yanks and British to clean their toilettes and serve they tables as you have done before.
#17 -8
Feb 05th, 2013 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How can we clean your toilets when the whole world knows you crap in the streets !
Clyde and I never seen so many homeless sleep in the streets during the day when I was in BsAs. No shelters for the homeless and mucho feces in the street
Feb 05th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Crap tain Poop y
Feb 05th, 2013 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You need to travel around US more often I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
Sacramento california
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
New jersey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnVTqJjV5Uc
Can you see your house there idiot?
I do idiot....I travel 75k miles a year around the USAS. You need to travel PERIOD. You are a meaningless troll that NO ONE in the world believes because
Feb 05th, 2013 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 01- your are Rgentine that is tantamount to a pathelogical liar
2-You've never been to anyplace you critque
3-You are not even in Rgentina to to know the reality of what is going on there.
4-You support a nazi based leader that steals from her own people.
5-You can't even argur a point and provide facts.
Any (as is apparent something like you can) find snippits of trash like utube and Ihatetheusa.com.......no one cares. You can't even stay on subject of the article. Use your Euro healthcare and get Riddlin, then mabe you can stay on point.
Have you seen the shelves in the grocery stores in Rgentina lately? If you lived there, the nits you bred could never grow into lice! You should have kept them in a condom.
Oh! Poor Crap tain Poop y
Feb 05th, 2013 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He travels 75.000 miles at year and he never saw the shitty state of the road in US, that some states cannot provide basic service, that in US are more that 50 millions of poor, that in some places in US are full of shantytowns, that shooting in cinemas and public places have become a normal stuff, that millions of people are living on food stamps, etc, etc,etc.
That the shitty police in US is formed by monkeys with guns, that some places are dangerous like a walk at night in Somalia, that US economy is near to collapse, etc, etc.
So are you blind or just stupid?
Well seems stupid only for well known source lets see if Crap tain PooP can realises how bad sitty banana America is on these days...
Oops! Routers
More U.S. kids living in high-poverty areas: study
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/23/us-poverty-children-idUSTRE81M0AH20120223
10 Metro Areas With the Highest Poverty Levels
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/23/us-poverty-children-idUSTRE81M0AH20120223
CNN
Nearly 50 million Americans in poverty under alternate measure
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/23/us-poverty-children-idUSTRE81M0AH20120223
Liar who?
You continue to divert, and distract because you cannot stay on topic and argue in support of your country. Last post addressing you as your intelligence to argue is menial at best. Never been someplace only vicarious. I think your brain matter dripped down mom's leg during your conception. I tried to steer you back, you are just incapable of debate. Caio Gracias
Feb 05th, 2013 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Crap tain Poopy
Feb 06th, 2013 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are confusing me now.
WTF is “Caio Gracias”?
Can you stay on the topic please, I also would like to remind you that this is a forum where comment should be expressed in English.
To be honest your comments seems to be in Spanglish and difficult to understand by people with not hispanics roots, if ya know wa't I mean.
So try to stick with Englishhh from England please, will you?
Thank very much indeed
Interesting read.....I can hardly wait for the 27th.
Feb 07th, 2013 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Argentina-plays-last-cards-with-NY-appellate-court_13545682
This will end up at SCOTUS although they will probably decline to take it. I think the more important point is if the BCRA funds are found to be really ARG gov't funds. That will cause a lot of problems for CFK. Can you imagine if all of their foreign reserves were seized! Wow what a nightmare.
Feb 09th, 2013 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#24
Feb 09th, 2013 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Dany, please do
eg Englishhh.........English. There is no requirement for three letter h. One is correct.
“if ya know wa't I mean.” Should be written as- If you know what I mean.
Remember, non-English readers use this site and cannot necessarily interpret your attempt at a regional accent which probably only applies in the London area.
@Clyde15
Feb 10th, 2013 - 03:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I will... Tomorrow???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrkbUM4IkLY
#28
Feb 10th, 2013 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Dany. I can't be bothered with youtube references
utube is the idiot's reference of choice for la campora. Like wikipeida, anyone can publish.....and most anyone does. It's one thing to refer to utube for laugh another for making a point.
Feb 10th, 2013 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for WTF regarding ...“caio gracias” a pretty standard phrase in rgentina......but you have to be in rgentina to know that.
February 27 is the so called..“mother of all battles” No one can truly predict the outcome, but merely sit on the sidelines cheering for one versus the other. I tend to agree with Yankee that in all probability, the message sent to defaulting nations would be devastating to people who would normally invest in nations, thereby eliminating a credit market for them. This makes it way to SCOTUS and they give it a nay.
caio gracias......lol
@Crap tain Poop Y
Feb 10th, 2013 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Caio gracias”????
May be you mean “chau gracias” idiot.
And in Italian is “Ciao grazie”
Repete avec moi
Io sono un ragazzo troppo pazzo che non sa come dire una bugia n' anche in la mio propia lingua.
Addesso vado a dire la verita per forza
Ciao Stronzo
ha ha
hahaha I guess that makes me non spanish. Took you forever to find that one....have you fi=ound the others....of even noticed them?
Feb 10th, 2013 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nope that makes you a complete ignorant with serious lack of education and that hardly can write some words in Spanglish.
Feb 11th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well after all to clean toilettes will no require any education at all. Doesn't it?
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/argentine-media-govt-taking-advertising-18443800
Feb 11th, 2013 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Crap tain
Feb 12th, 2013 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Have you even read the article?
“The government denies this: Consumer protection official Maria Colombo calls it “an invention” of the daily newspaper Clarin. “
“A trade group representing Argentina's supermarkets did not respond to Associated Press questions on Friday.”
Because is just an invention of ClarinMiente and La Destruccion de Mitre.
No much to say I guess...
>Do you work for Clarin Miente Crap Tain?
Oh! I forgot that with you “Pollo poco” and “Mente Poco” you can hardly write a few words in Spanglish.
Sad you missed a job...
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