MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazilian military regime supported financially Chilean dictator Pinochet
Recently uncovered government documents reveal that former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet received 115 million dollars of support from the Brazilian military government during the 1970s. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSo we now know that Brazil not only masterminded Operation Condor, but also funded Pinochet.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whose backyard is South America again?
Condorito, you know a lot more than that. And so do I. These lot are the last ones the know. Stop the driveling, you don't want to see the evidence on MP.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil also wanted to level BA in WW2 until the USA stopped them. I wonder why CFK is so cozy with them?
Mar 07th, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Stevie,
Mar 07th, 2013 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not sure I understand you.
When you say:
“you don't want to see the evidence on MP”
What are you referring to?
Plenty of proof of what happened in those times. Including CIA files. Remember el tancazo? This is not the place for the discussion.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why not?
Mar 07th, 2013 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It most certainly is the place to discuss it, unless you are used to living in a society where free speech is suppressed.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suspect Stevie does not want people to realise that South America is largely responsible for its own failures and atrocities rather than the Big Bad USA or the British.
Of course, they are also responsible for their successes.
“It most certainly is the place to discuss it, unless you are used to living in a society where free speech is suppressed.”
Mar 07th, 2013 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May...be you are right.
@7 Elaine
Mar 07th, 2013 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“South America is largely responsible for its own failures”
Exactly. It always infuriates me that so many people here blame the USA for our own debacles. Sure the CIA meddled, but so did the Brazilians.
Our dictators were our dictators and they did what they did because of who they were and what they believed. They weren't taking orders from anyone.
Great times . For those who want to know what Stevie is referring to .
Mar 07th, 2013 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanquetazo
No mention of the US , CIA , or anyone else .
As it concludes “ It proved how easy it was to take a presidential palace with a few tanks ”
10
Mar 07th, 2013 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Keep swimming, the pond is long.
What are you smoking ? It's obviously not legal .
Mar 07th, 2013 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(9) Condorito
Mar 07th, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A South American saying....:
“Our dictators were our dictators and they did what they did because of who they were and what they believed. They weren't taking orders from anyone.”
Amounts to an Eastern European saying...:
“Our dictators were our dictators and they did what they did because of who they were and what they believed. They weren't taking orders from anyone.”
Do you catch my drift?
Think:
Mar 07th, 2013 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I catch your drift, but don't agree.
Comparing CIA ineffectual meddling to Russian tanks on the street is at best melodramatic.
As you well know eastern Europe was invaded by the Rusos who left their puppets in place. We had nothing of the sort. Look what the Poles went through, their suffering and loss was orders of magnitudes greater than ours. And they lived under the constant threat of the return of the Red Army if they stepped out of line.
Significant sectors of our own society wanted the military in. In Chile Chilean citizens wanting Chilean generals to rid them of Chilean communists. Chilean agents abusing human rights of Chilean citizens. We can't rightfully pin it on someone else just because they desired the a similar outcome. We did it, we fixed, we got back up.
(14) Condorito
Mar 07th, 2013 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
Comparing CIA ineffectual meddling to Russian tanks on the street is at best melodramatic.
I say...:
And denying documented American history to “absolve” USA's imperialism is at best dogmatic.....
You call Kissinger's involvement “ineffectual”?
Mar 07th, 2013 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Condorito is right . S American politics is all about home grown caudillismo , full stop . Naturally it suited the Americans to have anti Communist govts in S America , but certain administrations , notably the Carter government , did much to prevent the excesses of the various dictatorships . This School of Americas myth doesn't wash .
Mar 07th, 2013 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only difference today is that the caudillos are trade union leaders , professional politicians and mafia hoods , not powerful landowners as in the past .
Incidentally , in 30 years time you will all be moaning about the Chinese , not the Americans , let alone the Brits .
Think:
Mar 07th, 2013 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can live with “dogmatic” :)
Stevie:
In Chile yes. They wanted rid of Allende but they didn't want Pinochet. They had their own man but shot him in the foot. Pinochet did not cooperate with the CIA. He had his own agenda.
Sooo much good analysis here. Condy, Elaine, Usurp, YankeeB. Even Frank :) . I'm gonna save them for when I come across a discussion IRL.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(18) Condorito
Mar 07th, 2013 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
”I can live with “dogmatic” :)”
I say...:
Good for you..... Else you would be dead.......
Condorito
Mar 07th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Kissinger/Chile_TOHK.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Kissinger/Chile_TOHK.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Kissinger/Chile_TOHK.html
I could go on forever, those are just on Chile, although the last one is of a more general nature.
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja
Mar 07th, 2013 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0who cares?
lo pasado es pisado
Stevie:
Mar 07th, 2013 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Judge Guzman wanted to interview Kissinger about
“ CIA involvement in the coup, whether US officials passed lists of leftwing Americans in Chile to the military and whether the US embassy failed to assist Americans deemed sympathetic to the deposed government.”
In other words, “meddling”.
There were many coups in South America before the 1970s and the coups of that period would have taken place without CIA involvement.
Do you really think Pinochet and Galtieri were puppets for the same puppet-master?
The USA can only meddle in places with corrupt leaders. Maybe you should elect honorable people in the first place.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Try to take some of the blame yourself once in awhile.
My that would be refreshing!
Your countries a re a mess and it has nothing to do with the USA.
LA nations take blame for their responsabilities, just look at Argentina, they have started trials against all they can proove where part of plan Condor, even Kissinger is called for a hearing. Not that he intends to show.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Uruguay, the most reluctant country is SA to make justice, has also encarcelated the top responsible for the dictatorship and crimes against humanity.
Don't worry, LA knows who the guilty are, and they can make justice, if late such, when it comes to their own criminals. As for USA, the only way to assure it never happens again, is to keep them far away.
Maduro has had three meetings with the US government in Washington in the last four months. Does that mean that he is a stooge for the US? Of course not. It means that whilst politicians spout bollocks for domestic consumption the real business of diplomacy goes on.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For all Chavez shouted about the Evil US he was more than co-operative over oil deals and much more. He wasn't stupid. In fact, he was very clever at getting what he wanted and manipulating to get it. Ask the US diplomats and they will generally describe Chavez as pragmatic.
Maduro is only spouting this 'imperialist illness' crap to hang onto the Chavez voters. He will continue to trade with the US if elected.
Chavez never hid the fact that US bought a large amount of oil, although far less than the pre-Chavez era. When he told Exxon to pay more or leave, he also told USA that they had the same rights as anyone else to buy oil from Venezuela, but that Latin America would get its share first. The rest is history.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, I am sure Chavez had huge balls before the cancer treatment. But you are missing the point that Chavez was more than willing to trade with the Evil US. Do you see?
Mar 07th, 2013 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What really happens, happens behind the scenes; that is why the nature of diplomacy is generally kept behind closed doors. However much Chavez boasted about his dealings with the US, he was, in fact, pragmatic when it came to making the deal.
So, even though Maduro has stated publicly that the US killed his beloved Chavez, he will continue to work with them.
Chavez never called USA evil, only Bush. And I hope Bush isn't representative for the entire USA.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Venezuela has always traded with USA, never hid it in no way. The fact that you never knew doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Stevie,
Mar 07th, 2013 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As for USA, the only way to assure it never happens again, is to keep them far away.”
What I was saying @1 was that if you blame the US you have to blame Brazil too. So if the solution as you say is to keep the US away, then you must also keep Brazil away. Both are nonsensical solutions.
Um, everyone where there is free press knew about Venezuela trading with the US. It is not news. But it does highlight that meeting, trading and diplomacy is not necessarily 'meddling'.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chavez got elected on being anti-USA. For nationalism to work, you need a Big Bad Enemy.
Maduro stopped meeting with the US when he knew Chavez was dying. He could hardly return from meetings in Washington and announce that the US had killed Chavez. Maduro is also pragmatic about making deals whilst screaming about the evil imperialist US to the less than educated that will vote for him.
“Chavez never hid the fact that US bought a large amount of oil, although far less than the pre-Chavez era.” That is because he was busy giving away the oil to his chums at greatly reduced prices. It was not Chavez's oil to give as gifts to his chosen buddies. Once nationalised, the money belonged to the people of Venezuela and he should have sold it at market prices so they could benefit from it.
Although far less than the pre-Chavez era...um they're pumping FAR LESS too...socialism doesn't work never has never will.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the economic isolation that Chavez imposed, development of the nation's vast oil reserves languished, most outside observers agree. Venezuela's oil production has declined 25 percent since 2001. Crude exports to Venezuela's long-time chief customer, the United States, have fallen roughly to the level seen before Chavez took office. Indeed, after a deadly explosion last year in its main refinery, Venezuela was forced to rely on gasoline imports from the United States to keep its economy moving.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/03/130306-hugo-chavez-venezuela-oil/
Elaine
Mar 07th, 2013 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chavez didn't get elected because he was anti-USA. It's not about USA. He was elected for the good he did to Venezuela.
“That is because he was busy giving away the oil to his chums at greatly reduced prices.”
That would be his people. In form of schools, hospitals, cheap petrol and food programmes.
You have no clue as to what Chavez has done for his people and for others as well. Why do you think 100's of 1000's are on the streets all over Latin America?
A picture says more than a thousand word.
Yes, I do know what Chavez did to improve the lives of poor Venezuelans. I have mentioned it several times.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The point you seem to miss is that had he sold the people's oil at market prices to his buddies, there would have been far more money to spend on the people. It was not his to give away cheaply.
Whose are the natural ressources, you say? The market's? He didn't give it away cheaply. For those countries that couldn't pay with cash, he got doctors instead. Meat and wool, other ressources. But most of all, he united the continent in a way never witnessed before. Put a price-tag on that.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he united the continent in a way never witnessed before
Mar 07th, 2013 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WTF are you talking about?
He almost went to war with Colombia many times, moved tanks to the boarders ( badly) and had a trade war with them?
You have the ALBA countries as a marginal alliance bought and paid for this someone else's oil and cash.
The successful countries of SA look down on them with derision.
It will all fall apart as soon as the cash stops flowing
Nobody else has the $ to keep it going.
And if you think begging for milk, flour and toilet paper is the concept of a well run upwardly mobile society you are living in the wrong place.
You are a blind fool Stevie
LOL interesting spin. No, he sold very cheap oil to his buddies, bailed Argentina out of debt to the IMF, bank rolled the Kirchners with suitcases of cash etc.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bartering is all well and good as long as you are not short-changing the Venezuelan's out of their money. He used their money to fund his power over other countries.
It is true that when I was in Cuba, I heard that Venezuelans went there for medical treatment, but only the wealthy Venezuelans.
Maybe if you chose other news sources than FOX News and avoided those organized trips, you would know better yankeeboy.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As it is, I'm glad you think that about LA, you'll never know what hit you.
Haw much laugh is to read yuo all speaking about the human rights cvrimes from the LA Gvts. during the 70's......but no one has arrived to the primary cause for this action....If Cuba, as a puppet of USSR, didn't intervine in the internal affairs of the LA countries, funding the LA's PC and terrorist and sending its croonies to fight against the LA citiziens trying to destroy the democracy they had (what happened in Chile in just 3 years) there wern´t necessary the military coups we asked for.....the human right were lost first from those gerrillas and extremist marxist-leninist Gvts. we had...
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I lived those terribles days of violence and dogmatism were the families were broken in a half by political ideologies of classes fights, when you were the enemy if you didn´t think as they did....And the economies were destroyed because nobody could be an labourer, just bosses in the companies that were of all so it were of nobody....The CPI (consumer price index) rose 1.000 % in 3 years in Chile while the private companies were confiscated and intervined with political operators as managers making them favor payment for the officialist parties leaders and followers.....
That´s is the real thing we lived in Chile, at least....Allende wasn´t the nun´s boy as the leftist tray to present him....he was a very negative leader that intentionaly tried to eliminate his own countrymates even with the help of foreing terrorist (from Cuba, Argentina, Uruguay, Perú, etc.).... He liked to show himself shooting automatic weapons (AK 47) in his own house on Tomas Moro street (very well known movies have been showed)... and was held by lunatics marxist-leninist like Corvalan, Neruda, Teitelvon and others.....
If the Christian Democrats weren't held Allende on 1970 when he was elected with just 30% of the votes things would be very different in Chile.....Is the other face of the coin...the real face, the truth.....
Elaine
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2012/06/02/cubatrained_doctors_making_difference_around_the_world.html
”Cuban doctors have also been sent on development missions around Latin America and Africa: starting vaccination campaigns in Angola and Ethiopia, working in rural South Africa and starting and staffing medical schools in a half-dozen countries like Yemen and Ghana where doctors are scarce. (In Ghana, local newspapers report that citizens are more likely to see a Cuban doctor than a local one.)
Since 2006, Cuban doctors have restored vision to 2.2 million Latin Americans through simple eye surgeries. ”
You see, Venezuelan people don't have to go to Cuba for treatment, the Cubans go to Venezuela.
Fact is, in Uruguay, the former Colorado government wanted to jail those Cuban doctors arriving in Uruguay for not having the papers required. They required papers so the doctors could help the poor in need. All the Cubans asked for in exchange for this treatment, was that the patient wasn't able to pay for it himself.
Never know what hit me?
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please elaborate I need a good laugh
yankeeboy
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You ARE a good laugh.
Go on..please tell us what is going to hit us...
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Arg Peso devaluation? Hyperinflation? Depression?
Not going to have any bearing on my life
I'm just trying to figure out if I want to buy a Mercedes or a Lincoln this summer.
Elaine
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll have to correct myself before anyone else does. It wasn't during the Colorado's, it was under the Frente Amplio and Vazquez.
yankeeboy
Go for it, buy both.
No I only need one. I haven't owned an American car in years but they sure are nice now.
Mar 07th, 2013 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you can't tell us what is going to hit us in the face?
Lot's of good stuff coming soon?
Yeah right
idiot
40@ But Cuba sent more soldiers to kill them that medics (not doctors) to save them....to Chile Cuba sent just killers extremist.....
Mar 07th, 2013 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please, be back to the real world better than your dreamed world.....If not, wouldn´t be livi ng more Cubans outside than inside Cuba...(and those last living thanks to the money sent by outsiders...)
Killer extremists you say? You mean those who opposed the right wing fascists? Stroessner, Galtieri, Pinochet, Bordaberry, Branco. Those were the good guys, perhaps? Bunch of murders and fascists. Common criminals. Reos.
Mar 08th, 2013 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/03/07/brazilian-military-regime-supported-financially-chilean-dictator-pinochet#comment224489: It is good to see such an enthusiastic Obama supporter on these pages! They are few, and far between.
Mar 08th, 2013 - 02:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't believe a word of what amateurish Santiago Times prints.
Mar 08th, 2013 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/03/07/brazilian-military-regime-supported-financially-chilean-dictator-pinochet#comment224743: The story was published in Folha de Sao Paulo, a reputable paper.
Mar 08th, 2013 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 Sergio : You could also add that Allende only won the election because piqueteros from the mines prevented anyone well dressed or from the middle class districts from voting , a fact conveniently forgotten by Guardianistas .
Mar 08th, 2013 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47 Stevie : You mean those who opposed the right wing fascists? Stroessner, Galtieri, Pinochet, Bordaberry, Branco : Opposed them by killing hundreds of innocent bystanders and minor officials whilst totally failing to even dent these regimes .Admittedly your uncles and father came reasonably close to killing Videla once or twice in 75/76 , but a miss is a good as a mile .
@43 yankeebullshit
Mar 08th, 2013 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujajaja
U Pirate
Mar 08th, 2013 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Videla? Now you are fishing again. The guerrilla has taken responsability for the innocent casualties that may have been. As for civilian innocents, you could count them with one hand. As for military, minor or major, the didn't have to obey the orders to kill and torture their own people. Their decision. Furthermore, their are no guerrilla members that haven't paid for what they might have done. With jail, torture, exile, kidnappings of their children, and many with their life. Have the ones responsable for the dictatorship paid for their crimes against humanity? As far as I know, Argentina is the only one to actively pursuit these criminals.
You must must have big hands ...
Mar 11th, 2013 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/15202166/Lista-de-la-1000-victimas-asesinados-por-montoneros.html
How come the members of the government that participated in these atrocities are not punished , only the military ?
Because there is no real justice in Argentina .
@ Stevie:
Mar 11th, 2013 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As far as I know, Argentina is the only one to actively pursuit these criminals.”
In Chile Contreras head of DINA got 219 years. He is the highest profile jailed, but there are others.
(http://www.biobiochile.cl/2011/10/05/el-ex-director-de-la-dina-manuel-contreras-recurre-a-los-tribunales-en-busca-de-libertad-dominical.shtml)
The military is a blunt instrument and when it becomes necessary to use your own military to save your own country many of the abuses happen at a local level and not ordered from the top. This was always a problem for prosecution in Chile.
Perhaps you see more justice being done in Argentina because there were more criminal acts. Your dictatorship lasted half as long as ours and killed more than 10x as many, plus they wrecked your country and took you to war. Pinochet saved us from becoming another Cuba, laid the foundations for our current prosperity and stability and exited via a democratic referendum.
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