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Praise for Falklands’ population tolerance and criticism for Argentina’s approach
”I came to meet a peaceful population of sheep farmers and fishing people and they were not waiting for me to support them” but they have very strong and historic links with Uruguay, said lawmaker Jose Cardoso, who is currently in the Falklands to observe the referendum on the Islanders political status and future. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules: regarding the foul language of the Minister of Defence, let somebody else address them, I don’t have time to lose
Mar 11th, 2013 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0//////////////
[defence minister ]
The mans is indoctrinated by CFK poison policy,
So don’t worry abt this defence minister,
We aint got time either,
But sure glad you put yourself out to come and see the Falklands in person,
And you defence man can go and play with his toys.
.......
Sound like Uruguayan lawmaker Jose Cardoso enjoyed his visit to the Falkland Islands, hopefully this will bring their nations closer together.
Mar 11th, 2013 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0G*d damn it!!
Mar 11th, 2013 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If other leaders in South America had half his intelligence... Well, the place wouldn't be in half as much of a mess would it?
Agreed
Mar 11th, 2013 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a shame Argentina keeps picking a fight with the peaceful islanders who do not deserve its bullying, nasty and aggressive behavior.
Mar 11th, 2013 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happened to acting civilized? And why is Argentina so keen on colonizing the Islands against the Islanders wishes? Is it because of Argentina's economic crash as a way of diverting attention?
I know several Argentine people and not one of them support the harassment against a small and peaceful community nor do they support the actions of their government.
@Xect I believe things might be different once Kirchner leaves power no country can carry on behaving like this even South America will get pisssed with hearing about Kirchners dream
Mar 11th, 2013 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A very intelligent man. He came to the Islands to meet the people. He does not endorse one position or another, but he does recognise the benefits that the Falkland Islanders enjoy, the lack of crime, the free health care, the free education and wishes that there were closer ties with Uruguay.
Mar 11th, 2013 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He does not waste his time with any response to the ignorant Defence Minsters allegations, but politely shows his contempt in the most refined manner possible.
I suspect that when this gentleman gets into office, he will explore ways that the people of the Falklands and Uruguay can grow closer ties, such as direct flights. Let's hope that they are agree to participate in the oil exploration and benefit from the results too.
What a relief to see what is possible with a new generation of politicians in Iruguay and South America!!
Mar 11th, 2013 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An honest man, it seems this was an eye opening trip that dispelled some illusions.
Best Wishes, Mr. Cardoso.
Yep, Uruguayans ARE reaching out to the Falklanders!
Mar 11th, 2013 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A “people” of wonders, sr. sepoy. All at the expense of the Argentine territory and resources. How easy stop by pacifist and not how many more stupid things, not being Argentine. As mentioned these two Argentine women, please! The typical traitor for being against the government in power, is capable of betraying the country. What a coincidence that one of them is one of the “intellectuals” (all of them at least, “mannered”) who issued a stupid statement supporting okupas, or nearly all, of the “famous” sepoy daily La Nacion.
Mar 11th, 2013 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jose, how hard is it to understand you've NEVER owned the land or resources and you have NEVER had the island under Argentine control except for your illegal invasion which led to your surrender.
Mar 11th, 2013 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are brainwashed and unable to see facts or reality it seems.
@10 Jose Malbec
Mar 11th, 2013 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The typical traitor for being against the government in power, is capable of betraying the country.”
Jose, it is possible to be 'against' the government in power, and express free thought and free speech, without being a “traitor”.
As long as laws are not broken and the Constitution is followed, all is well.
at worst, other citizens may respond with contrary views and their own 'free speech'.
At least in 'free' civilised countries, that is.
Is that how it is where you live?
number 10, your time is up,
Mar 12th, 2013 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0there always has to be an argie spoiler,
or did he just draw the short straw.lol.
Jose Cardoso would like to see the Falklands as Argentine Territory, but also seems to believe in respect and dignity for other human beings.
Mar 12th, 2013 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some malvista posters on here seem to find this unacceptable. Says it all really.
@5 “What happened to acting civilized? And why is Argentina so keen on colonizing the Islands against the Islanders wishes?”
Mar 12th, 2013 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's very simple. Ask any Argentinian and he will tell you “UK stole the islands by force and we want them back, whether the people there want it or not.” Of course, that's not exactly what happened, but in Argentina your lies are the truth (and your truth are lies). People in Argentina think that the referendum is just an excuse to justify the British “occupation” by exploiting self-determination, or just a pointless stunt made in response to Kirchner's stunts.
Now, it is true that CFK made a whole circus out of the issue, but I'm not sure it was solely for internal consumption. It does seem CFK's government really believed trolling would work out, and they really did think Argentina had the upper hand diplomatically.
After CFK leaves, you might expect better diplomacy, but don't expect that Argentina will ever listen to you. That would be political suicide for anyone in government.
Has anyone else worked out why José keeps talking about an OCTOPUS?
Mar 12th, 2013 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know he misspells it but I'm wondering why.
Is this like some frat prank? Did you naughty Falklanders steal Argentina's octopus mascot?
MagnusMaster @ 15
Mar 12th, 2013 - 03:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly, you've hit the nail on the head. The islanders must NEVER believe the Argentines, whoever is in power.
Clearly there are a lot of people in South America that are longing to hold out the hand of friendship to the Falklanders, but they are being prevented by leftist fascist leaders, it's quite sad really,
Mar 12th, 2013 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0@15 MagnusMaster
Mar 12th, 2013 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with what you say. Also the Argentine government mishandled the Falkands referendum immensely.
If they had ignored the referendum completely, then it would've still gone a head, but hardly anyone in the world would've heard about it.
But by stating that the referendum was illegal before the question had even been written, and they crying about it on every international stage possible, they ensure that the Falkland Islanders and their referendum got maximum media coverage.
Argentina might never accept the result, but more and more countries in the world are looking at the Islanders, learning about the true history, and realise that Argentina has been talking bollocks.
Argentina may never accept the result, but there is a very good chance that the rest of the world will.
And without any support, Argentina's chances of ever getting the Falklands are zero.
Argentina needs to change their attitude. They need to start accepting things they cannot change, and concentrate on things that they can change in Argentina.
Argentina has the potential to become one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world. The problem is that the country is so mismanaged by corrupt and inept people that not only are you stagnating, but you are actually regressing.
It's a pity. With a stable, uncorrupt government, Argentina could pay off all it's debts, build up and develop the countries infrastructure, build better schools, hospitals and transport networks, encourage investment and create jobs, thus reducing unemployment, whilst at the same time raising people from poverty.
Within 50 years Argentina could be a brilliant country that the people of the Falklands might even consider joining.
But we all know that isn't going to happen? Too much corruption, too ingrained into the national psyche, will be the death of Argentina. I can see that Argentina will destroy itself, or be invaded by one or more of its neighbours in the not too distant future.
#10
Mar 12th, 2013 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was going to give you a considered reply.... but....why bother. You are just a joke.
Lep
Mar 12th, 2013 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To my mind their biggest mistake was to marginalise the Islanders.
By saying they do not exist and therefore do not have the same rights as other peoples, was a mistake of epic proportions. Yet another to add to the list.
They introduced racsim and Human Rights into what was ostensibly a dispute over sovereignty.
Whilst some may have been happy to be seen as supporting their sovereignty claim, they were not happy to be seen as supporting racism or the denial of fundamental human rights.
Naturally, when referring to some, I omit the usual suspects, who we all know, need no naming.
@10 What a “twonk” you are. So eaten up with bigotry, cowardice, envy, greed, hatred, intolerance, jealousy, nationalism that you can't even create intelligible sentences. Let us know when you grow up!
Mar 12th, 2013 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 010 José Malvinero (#)
Mar 12th, 2013 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mar 11th, 2013 - 10:46 pm
I'm sure I've already mentioned to you that the despective use of the word “sepoy” is a very risky and stupid thing to do, remember that “sepoy” is the hindu word for “soldier” and that the Indian Armed Forces have something in the region of 2.000.000 “sepoys” in their ranks.
I, personally would be very careful not to annoy 2.000.000 very well trained “sepoys” by taking their name in vain!!!!!!
Your CommentPoor Joe ninety
Mar 12th, 2013 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0spin , spin spin ,
Try this,
As this is better
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
British stealth drone to undergo first test flight
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9797738/British-stealth-drone-to-undergo-first-test-flight.html
tests in Australia this year.
.
#10
Mar 12th, 2013 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For those who know, Sepoy is a respected name. But again, what would an ignorant troll no about the real world.
he lives un cuckoo land poor kid.
Mar 12th, 2013 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19 “Argentina needs to change their attitude. They need to start accepting things they cannot change, and concentrate on things that they can change in Argentina. ”
Mar 12th, 2013 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina won't accept squat. Argentinians won't ever forgive you for the “occupation”. We'll never be at peace. This doesn't mean that people in Argentina won't try to improve our situation, but with the politicians we have, that's not gonna be easy.
“sepoy is a respected word”
Mar 13th, 2013 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sepoy means a local soldier in the service of the Europeans, originally from India, today it is little respected. “Traitor” would cover mosts aspects of the word, but with some limitations. Where a traitor is general, a sepoy is one servicing the Europeans.
“We'll never be at peace.”
Mar 13th, 2013 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a sad attitude to take. This about sums up Argentina's immaturity as a nation. Refusing to accept the situation & holding a grudge means that your country will have a continual chip on their shoulder.
Not only were you humiliated before the modern world for defying the UN in 82, but then defeated resoundingly, many of your conscripts running away in cowardice. Hardly surprising the brutal treatment they received from their officers.
Argentina is an economic basket case. The country is rife with unemployment & crime, the politicians corrupt, barriers inhibit free trade & currency is controlled to stop it leaving the country as fast as possible. Argentina's neighbours consider Argentina a joke. They have to pay lip service to Argentine demands for support in this case, but it is clear that many of them wish that they were trading with the Falklands.
You clearly still have a problem with the truth. You call it an 'occupation', when it is actually peaceful & legal ownership of the sovereignty by the people who live there, the natural descendants of Vernet's colony. You rant & rave about the entire Argentine colony being forced to leave when:
a) the civilians remained & only the garrison left
b) there was no Argentina at the time, and
c) many Argentines, Uruguayans & other nationalities came to the islands in the years after 1833.
The Argentine government had a chance to participate in the development of the islands, but instead they choose to try & steal them from the lawful owners, in 1829-33 as well as 1982. As a result, your country has been shown as nothing better than thieves, living up to the creed of Viveza Criolla.
Argentina will lose the fight in the UN. You demanded talks & you were offered them at the empty chair meeting. You tried to suppress the rights of the Islanders to Self Determination in the General Assembly at the UN & failed twice.
Now the Islanders have voted & the world will take note of their wishes.
nigelpwsmith @ 29
Mar 13th, 2013 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's pretty much the way I see things from Uruguay.
@29 say what you want about the truth, Argentina will always see it as an occupation by the British to exploit Argentina's resources. Your truth, in Argentina, is a lie. Until this situation changes (which will be after hell freezes over), Argentina will not accept anything.
Mar 13th, 2013 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@31
Mar 13th, 2013 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why is it that Argentines have a problem with the truth?
Is it that you've been deceived by your own politicians so much that you do not believe a word they say?
Is it that you believed everything you were taught at school, instead of questioning the facts, investigating them for yourselves and making up your own mind?
Do you believe everything that is written in newspapers or that appears on the TV news to be the absolute truth?
Are you really that naive?
The facts are there in your own National Archives. You don't have to take our word for it, you can see for yourself, if only you would care to visit the Archives and see the documents.
I can help you with that, because some British & Argentine historians have already been through the documents. They've loaded some of them on-line.
One in particular is interesting because it is the evidence prepared by Pinedo for his courts martial in 1833. It verifies that 12 Argentines (one of whom was Rivero) stayed on the islands when the United Provinces garrison left. It also corroborates that the only 4 people to leave were a Uruguayan & a Brazilian & their wives.
There is a copy of the first page of Pinedo's report in this PDF:
http://www.falklandshistory.org/historia-falsa.pdf
More documents in Montevideo prove that Samuel Lafone, a businessman operating out of Montevideo sent 150 people to the islands after 1833. Most of these were Argentine & Uruguayan, but a number of them were also Spanish, German & some British.
Don't take my word for it, check the documents for yourself.
Ask yourself the question, why has Argentina been distorting the history? Why is it that the factual documents differ from the history taught in schools? Why is it that the Government keeps distorting the facts?
The answer is quite simple. If Argentina relied in the true facts, then their claim would fail immediately & be rejected by all other nations.
Why do you think that Argentina refuses to take the claim to the ICJ?
@32
Mar 13th, 2013 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0¨Is it that you believed everything you were taught at school, instead of questioning the facts, investigating them for yourselves and making up your own mind?
Do you believe everything that is written in newspapers or that appears on the TV news to be the absolute truth?¨
Most people are naive, specially when teachers, historians, all media, all people in the street, the government, and every single book you see say the same thing. You understand what it means to rewrite history, don´t you think? Anyone who claims Argentina rewrote history is a traitor. Saying that Argentina´s claim to the islands is a big fat lie is like going to Germany and deny the Holocaust (except the getting sent to jail part. We haven´t gotten to that extreme yet).
And how do you know that CFK hasn´t messed with the National Archives and burnt all your evidence?
¨Ask yourself the question, why has Argentina been distorting the history? Why is it that the factual documents differ from the history taught in schools? Why is it that the Government keeps distorting the facts?¨
That´s a good question. I think it´s a bit farfetched to think that someone would distort history simple to distract the people. I know the politicians in Argentina are evil to the core, but to go to that extreme to fool people? And it´s not like just one political faction did this. It´s odd that the world doesn´t know about such a big conspiracy, in the middle of globalization. I´m sure they had a interest beyond having something to distract people during bad times.
@33 MagnusMaster.
Mar 13th, 2013 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Blame naturalised french historian Paul Groussac. His flawed account of history got the ball rolling and as he was very much involved in argentine education service his books sowed the seeds of the malvinad myth!
Masky @ 34
Mar 14th, 2013 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting! And successive administrations just kept on using it over the years to distract public attention from other matters, raise patriotic feeling, forge identity and what not? I know for sure that most Argentines sincerely believe the Malvinas myth, including well educated people. However, nowadays, how many would be willing to go to war over them (or send their children)? Not as many as in 1982 I suspect (and hope).
@35 And yet, with every oil tanker that fills up from Falklands oil wells, the cries from the rich & poor alike in Argentina will say that “they are stealing our resources!”
Mar 14th, 2013 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Part of the reason that CFK has ramped up the rhetoric is because;
a) she wants the oil money for herself;
b) the money will enrich the Falkland Islanders so much that they will be able to secure the Islands forever;
c) it is a constant reminder for each Argentine that they have failed to get anywhere diplomatically or militarily (because their claim has no merit); and
d) because they are unable to get the investment to extract their own shale deposits due to the nationalisation of YPF which only expanded CFK's Swiss bank accounts.
More and more Argentines will be in favour of military action, however misconceived. CFK won't provide the military with the rope with which she could be hanged, so she will force them to intervene in the oil production with the resources they have at present and more Argentines will die at sea.
Everything I see is leading to a showdown in the next 5 years, a showdown in which an Argentine warship or submarine is sunk for attempting to attack an oil production rig or tanker. The United States could even be involved if the ship is American - which it might very well be considering that American oil companies will be taking the oil to the States.
The new Pope will be urging the Argentine government to do something about the Argentine poor, but since CFK is blocking any economic growth and putting the country into terminal decline and stagnation, the only way they can feed the poor is to rely on their old tried and trusted creed, Viveza Criolla.
They will attempt to steal the oil. If they cannot do this, they will attempt to interfere with the production and if they cannot do this, they will sabotage the supplies.
However much the ordinary citizen does not want war, Argentina is still headed for a military showdown.
@36 I don't see a military showdown in the next five years, Argentina doesn't have an army and I doubt anyone would let CFK declare war. But if Argentina does go to war any time soon, I'm running away as far as I can before my country gets turned into a nuclear wasteland.
Mar 14th, 2013 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0nigelpwsmith @ 36
Mar 14th, 2013 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'd like to add something to your point a): although a significant percentage of the oil money would no doubt find its way into the pockets of CFK and her cronies, it would also allow her to become the new Chaves.
Conclusion: As ever, don't trust the Argentines, don't believe anything they promise, carry a big stick.
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