MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Malvinas Islands claim, an act of “epic stupidity” says El Pais from Madrid
John Carlin, the British writer and journalist who works for Spain’s leading newspaper El Pais, with a high degree of irony strongly criticized Argentina’s claim over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands as an ‘epic idiocy’. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“concentrates in an especially clear way the inexorable stupidity of the species, its ability to generate problems and conflicts and even wars where there was no need for one”.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow, hit the nail on the head there, especially when you witness the posts from certain people on these forums.
Great article, it totally hits the nail on the head...
Mar 18th, 2013 - 07:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0“they lost the war and that is when all could have ended. But no: they continue, again and again, puppets in the hands of cynic media, and the half nutty rulers of the moment”.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 07:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Gotta love that comment also, the rest of the world is finally waking up to Argentina's rhetoric, about time too.
Seems to me that Carlin is pretty well on track.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is insoluble !
Mar 18th, 2013 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0therefore things will continue as they are,
can we talk about something else.
I read a comment on that article yesterday, before it got swamped with indignent Argentines :-
Mar 18th, 2013 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Mr Carlin; I was in Argentina in the 1950s and went to the elementary school. Excellent education. Only one thing I detested. Every week we should draw the Islands with Chinese ink and write, ”The Malvinas are ours”. I didn't detest it because I thought that they were British (my real concern was to decide if it was going to be River Plate or Boca Juniors), but because I had no luck with the ink, and you should repeat everything several times. But thus grew an entire generation. Note that there was no explanation given, nothing of the story told, but rather only the phrase: “The Malvinas are ours”, every Friday, all the years. Almost thirty years later I read in a European newspaper that the Argentine military junta had invaded the Islands, with the explosion of enthusiasm of a people (which however had already given signs of being fed up with the military junta). And suddenly I remembered these last Friday to obsessively draw those islands, with that phrase. And I understood that “button” planted in the brains of an entire generation (when is 'useful'). George Orwell had anticipated everything.”
@6
Mar 18th, 2013 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now that is interesting!
l think that the “button” in Think's brain is fused “on”.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed, Mr. Carlin is 100% right. Malvinazi-Argentina's claim is an act of 'epic stupidity'! Bravissimo,
Mar 18th, 2013 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
Who cares about the Falklands really? I mean if the UK gave the islands to Argentina no Brit would blink an eye.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Love live Messi though! Maybe England can swap the Falklands for Messi. Or even better swap that overrated Rooney :)
Pavlovian! Gold. Absolute gold.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As Mr Carlin rightly says, their ignominious defeat by a much smaller invasion force in 1982 should have been the end of this nonsense. But instead they have built hundreds of monuments and signposts all over the country. For example when one takes the ferry across the Rio Paraguay from Asuncion to Clorinda (Arg) the first thing one sees is a big “Las Malvinas son Argentinas” signboard. When tourists visit the “Tres Frontieras” at Puerto Iguassu - and you can't get much further from the “Malvinas” than that - the first thing the unsuspecting tourists will see is a monument in the shape of the islands. Typically, most of these monuments are in a bad state of repair, just like the country itself. Posadas, capital of Misiones province, has 2 monuments. The original one, an ugly rain-stained concrete slab, occupying a large (and very scruffy) traffic circle on the edge of the town, is quite derelict. There are many more such examples. What does this say about the mentality of the country as a whole?
Mar 18th, 2013 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Couldn´t agree more, I sometimes comment on the La Nacion blogs which are hugely anti CFK but when it comes to the Falklands/Malvinas they all believe the UK usurp them from Argentina
Mar 18th, 2013 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now you understand where Raul, Doveoverdover, Malvinero & British K are coming from........sad really
This is the only place in world where support for UK is found here. You guys are looking at your navel too much. Remember Al Haig and the Ms. Kirkpatrick US ambassador to UN supported Argentina.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 Liberty12
Mar 18th, 2013 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are of course wrong. Haig failed in his Kissenger style globe trotting. He saw that Britain was resolute and he saw that Argentine leadership was shoddy with neither Galtieri or his brethen having a clear mandate to talk for their nation. He talked with one guy, talked with another, none had a clear idea of a path forward, half of them were drowning their sorrows in Whisky. Haig tried, Reagan was piss poor until finally war was upon you. And you lost... and you continue to embarass yourself with the mantra 'malvinas are argentine' .. its all you have. Zip.
10 Hands Off
Mar 18th, 2013 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I take it you have not lived in the UK then?
@16 - ChrisR
Mar 18th, 2013 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course he hasn't, and doesn't understand that the majority of British people want the Islanders to choose their own future, whatever that may be.
Unlike Argentina that would NEVER allow the Islanders to be independent, if they ever got their theiving mitts on the Falklands.
British people believe in freedom and self-determination. The people of the Falklands have spoken regarding what they want, and the people of Britain will respect that.
The people of Britain will also support defending the Islands from the aggressive Argentine wannabe colonialists no matter the cost.
We've already paid with 258 lives, several naval vessels, several aircraft to liberate the Islands and its people from a totalatarian dictatorship that had murdered thousands of its own people.
Of course if Argentina should ever be stupid enough to try and invade the Falkands again, our 1st targets would be on the Argentine mainland: namely their Argentine naval ports, airforce bases and and radar or anti-aircraft installations that could be considered a threat to the islands. It will be a completely different kind of war, and one that Argentina wouldn't like at all.
The price of freedom is often paid in blood.
“This is the only place in world where support for UK is found here.”
Mar 18th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even t'were that true it only takes Britain, even on its own, to be resolute against expansionist nationalistic countries to prevent the colonisation of the Falklands by Argentina.
And Britain has plenty of experience standing up to Nationalistic expansionist countries, even on her own.
THe whole reason Argentina is so utterly desperate for friends that even their President will whore herself to a Pope she despises, is because Britain is resolute.
The mere idea that treading a path on our own would intimidate us is farcical.
Having said that, you're talking out of your derrière anyway, ;-)
INTELLECTUAL HONESTY AND MEDIOCRITY
Mar 18th, 2013 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As i always say, it's necesary to have intellectual honesty, in order to discuss about something so complicated like politic.
Beyond carlin's mediocre and pathetic analysis, it's necesary to say that the case has strong and weak aspects for both nations, in fact, many people in this forum know that i have explained them in planty of oportunities.
Carlin's analysis refers to the usuall partial view of many giornalists who publish their opinions in mercopress, and who don't make any critic to the posture of their empire in decadence.
Anyway, it's honest to recognize that carlin's view, can be found also among the sepoys that we have in the mainland, who have always supported the british posture, making a hypocrite emphasis in reference to human rights.
However, carlin, our sepoys, and many other giornalists who publish their comments in mercopress defending the interest of their empire, seem to omit that beyond their decadent and hypocrite analysis, the u. n. have always continued calling both nations to resume the negotiations, and find a solution for this conflict. However, u. k.'s rejection to the u. n.'s resolution, emphasizing in a right like self determination, which has never been applied for this cause by the u. n., as it was applied for other colonial situations, don't seem something repudiable for all these people, that's why i have always understood why they need to express such decadent and mediocre opinions.
Respecting the support that many of our people gave to the invasion of 1982, which is reminded often by all these people, what they omit, is that during the dictatorhip all the chanels were under the controll of the junta, and in reference to the conflict of 1982, all the information that came from the islands wad distorted, in behalf of the junta, in fact, all the time it was said that we were wining. Anyway, our people should do a critic for having ignored our war veterans for years, that was really despisable.
“”Anyway, it's honest to recognize that carlin's view, can be found also among the sepoys that we have in the mainland, who have always supported the british posture, making a hypocrite emphasis in reference to human rights.“””
Mar 18th, 2013 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you been using using CFK & Timmerman's verbal- diarrhoea-generator again?
I thought they reserved that for just them & the trolly-dolly Castro?
@19 axel arg
Mar 18th, 2013 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beyond your mediocre and pathetic analysis, it's necessary to say that Argentine case has no strengths and relies entirely on fairy tales and pipe dreams.
@19 axel arg
Mar 18th, 2013 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And it is written that britains win in the south atlantic signalled the end of the military junta and the baby stealing, people disappearing, torturing regime that went with it. Thus argentine grew from strength to strength playing an important role in the world today.... except it failed miserably.
@ 19 Axel Arg
Mar 18th, 2013 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OK, if we are going to have some intellectual honesty, I'd like to put your “Malvinas” claim to one side since you are gracious enough to admit that both sides have good and weak claims which, coming from an RG, is quite an admission..!
What then is the basis for RG's belated (1940-ish) claim to South Georgia? Since you claim to be an intellectually honest person then please don't duck on this one as all your compatriots have done. I am sure you are reading these comments so please have the courtesy to reply - its an important credibility issue.
John Carlin, the British writer and journalist who works for Spain’s leading newspaper El Pais...WTF
Mar 18th, 2013 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ladies and Gentlemen the circus is in town.
PS Messi you are the only reason I ¨hate¨ Argies...If you would only play for us
Of course I have lived in the UK. I was born there! The average brit couldn't give two hoots about the Falklands. At least we should sell it to the Argentines. If the islanders are willing to pay their own way then sure they can be part of the UK otherwise its the high road.
Mar 18th, 2013 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 25 Hands Off...
Mar 19th, 2013 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The average brit couldn't give two hoots about the Falklands.”
That may have been true before 1982 but no longer if the comments sections of the newspapers (even the Guradian, believe it or not) are indicative. As for selling it to the RG's - hah, what would they pay with, and when, or if???
Offering to sell the islands would provide closure though. Sure the Argies couldn't afford it but thats there bad luck. Though they might come up with the cash and send their country broke again. Another win for the UK.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 01982 was a win. Selling the islands for a profit would be another win and would save british taxpayers a lot of money.
I seriously doubt the average brit cares too much anymore. It would be an interesting pole.
Hands Off @ 27
Mar 19th, 2013 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, you could even offer the Islanders as slaves, included in the price. Bastard!
Hands Off, F*** Off.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cretin!
The article hits the nail on the head regarding population brainwashing from an early age. The policy came into place in 1935. School leavers not tainted by this policy are 90+ years old. These people have however been subject to 78 years of rhetoric.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel- can you please name and quote the UN Declaration that specifically names and excludes the Falklands from having the right of self determination.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0”What then is the basis for RG's belated (1940-ish) claim to South Georgia?”
Mar 19th, 2013 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel please answer this. I long for the answer to this question.
@ 32 Zethee,
Mar 19th, 2013 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Give him time..! First, Comrade senor Axel has to look up the meaning of “Intellectual Honesty”, then he has to learn how to apply it to this question - and of course, after a lifetime of chanting the national mantra “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”, it is not easy for an RG to break with tradition and come clean on this topic.
23 ernest shackleton (#)
Mar 19th, 2013 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mar 18th, 2013 - 09:30 pm
Dear Ernest,
As it is most likely that our champion of “intellectual honesty”, Axel Arg, will not answer your question, and to avoid being tarred with the brush of his dishonesty, I'll answer for him:
The SG and SSI were at the time of the start of the “Malvinas myth”, Falkland Island dependencies, thus when the Nationalists decided to “throw the lance” of demanding the “return” of the Falkland Islands, they included the dependetcies.
This was the invention of Juan Domingo Perón and has been waved like a red flag before a bull in the eyes of the Argentine people ever since, and unfortunately a majority of us believe the peronist rubbish that they are served up constantly in every possible graphic medium!!!!!!
@ 34 Simon68,
Mar 19th, 2013 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your reply - do I take it that you're an RG, possibly of British origin?
I speculated on another thread that they added it to their “wish list” in the hope that if ever the Brits decided to “negotiate” (i.e., surrender) then the RG's might give up their claim to SG,SSI, as a sort of quid pro quo - hoping that such a gracious display of (bogus) magnanimity would be a face-saver for the Brits. It would no doubt work on a Labour govt, not that the Tories are much different these days, although I must say Cameron is showing the bulldog spirit on this on issue, if not on other equally important like foreign aid which despite the parlous economy he refuses to cut.
35 ernest shackleton (#)
Mar 19th, 2013 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mar 19th, 2013 - 03:14 pm
I am home grown and not of British origen, a bit of European and Mapuche blood, shaken not stirred!!!!!!
Its so strange to hear some of the reactions to my comments here. I would have to describe some of the users as impractical and a touch irrational. Isn't that what Argentine's are famous for? Come on Brits use your brains. Probably also use your time better rather than wasting it on here (thats another story isn't it?)
Mar 19th, 2013 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hands Orf, I don't think you're a Brit. You can't even use apostrophes properly, you silly bugger. Go away.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentines just see a few more square miles to add to their enormous territory and their self-esteem. The rest of the world sees a tiny population of honest, hardworking people that has already been invaded and terrorised once and is the object of ongoing bullying.
25 Hands Off
Mar 19th, 2013 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for replying to my post.
I would have appreciated it better if I did not doubt the veracity of it.
The average 'Brit' does not exist when you talk about selling land occupied by 'Brits' to belligerent crooks, we tend to band together and giver the likes of you a sharp kick up the arse.
And I don't consider my time, short as it is on here, wasted if it helps just one scintilla to piss the likes of you off.
That is from a genuine 'Brit' to a pretend one.
Hands Off, get your hands off it.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You guys take yourselves far too seriously.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 19th, 2013 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who cares as long as we in the UK aren't paying for it. Time to drop the dead weight.
Mar 20th, 2013 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0@43 Hands Off,
Mar 20th, 2013 - 07:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0That was not me who answered you at #42.
lt must be our dear old neurotic friend, SussieUS.
Whats the matter, soozy. Run out of shopping malls to grace with your presence?
ln case you didn't know, Hands Off, our dear Soozy likes to impersonate different people & write nonsense.
ln fact l believe that its the Argentine Secret Service.
But then who cares?
lf you really are from the UK & see us as a dead weight, then be assured that we will be more than paying our way(& repaying from years past) when the oil starts to flow a few years from now.
The UK will have a supply of cheap(not free!)oil, the UK armed services have somewhere to train, the Navy could build a big base there to make their presence felt in the Southern ocean. The list goes on.
We will be an asset to the UK & definitely not a burden.
ERNEST SHAKELTON. ISLANDER1. ZETHE.
Mar 20th, 2013 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ERNEST and ZETHE: Sorry for my dely. Firstly, i don't understand what you mean when you say RG. Anyway, i interpret that you want to know what are the bases for our claim for south georgia. Tell me wether i interpreted your question correctly.
For being honest, i have never known why our country claims for south georgia and sandwich, all my investigations refered mostly to the malvinas-falklands. I only know that south georgia and sandwich are dependencies from the malvinas-falklands, but i have never investigated deeply in order to know wether our country should claim for them too.
ISLANDER1: Sorry for my dely. I have answered you about it in other oportunities, but it seems that you don't read often the comments.
While it it is true that there is not any resolution from the u. n., which expresses that self determination is not applicable for the population from the islands, it is also true that if you get int the website form the u. n., you'll see that there is not any resolution which says that self determination is applicable to your people, in fact, you'll find different resolutions where that right is applicabe for populations who live in territories considered like non-self governing territories, but never for the malvinas-falkland cause.
On the other hand, this cause has always been considered like a special colonial situation by the u. n. Beside, i recommend you to search in the news archive from this website, what was expressed by the president from the decolonization committe, when he explained the reasons why that right is not applicable for this case. One of the dates is june 16th 2012, and the other date was at just a few days before the referendum.
@ axel arg,
Mar 20th, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your reply. Sorry I wasn't aware you did not understand the RG (Argie) diminutive - its new to me too but is used a lot in these comments.
As for your reply - I find it hard to believe that someone who brags about “intellectual honesty”, and who is obviously so passionate about the righteousness of your country's “Malvinas” claim, has never even thought why they would also claim the SG/SSI islands which were never part of the Spanish Empire and only part of Argentina's short-lived overseas empire for a few weeks. IMO by adding such an obviously fraudulent claim to their already very weak “Malvinas” case, Argentina has shown itself to be a dishonest claimant at best and a liar and perjurer at worst.
ERNEST SHAKLETON.
Mar 21st, 2013 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have right to think whatever you want, like everybody else.
I'm not interested in persuading absolutly anybody in this forum, i just want to express my arguments, which are based on my investigations, because i want to say what i think about such a complicated cause like this. However, wether you believe me or not, it's just your problem.
On the other hand, the day you learn to have intellectual honesty, you'll realize that the case has strong an weak aspects for both nations. That day, you'll stop making the usuall mediocre comments that many people in this forum express in reference to this case.
@46 ernest shackleton,
Mar 21st, 2013 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l don't think Axel is the full quid(as my Dad says!).
He just repeats the same slogans over & over, & doesn't listen to a word anyone says.
l don't think he knows what some English words mean.
And he is convinced that Argentina has “rights” in the Falklands, when of course, they do not.
@ axel,
Mar 21st, 2013 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you are attempting to avoid answering my question by professing ignorance about the SG/SSI claim. You claim “intellectual honesty” and have carefully done your historical homework in regard to “Malvinas”, i.e., you imply not having been simply indoctrinated with Peronist lies from childhood (as all RG's have). So it seems very strange that you have not also researched the SG/SSI, since your govt has made it an integral part of their “Malvinas” claim. Don't you think you should now look into that, if only for the sake of “intellectual honesty”?
This is an important point since its obvious that the Arg claim on SG/SSI has no historical basis and is purely based on territorial greed, much like Hitler's claim to parts of E.Europe. If Argentina's motives can be shown to be simple greed for territory, then the Falklands/Malvinas claim is also tainted with greed.
@44 lsolde. Thanks for your reply. You make valid points but I don't think the UK needs the islands for a training ground or even need a presence in that region.
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know about the oil. I think the UK should use that chip to get a good price for the islands. Bringing oil out of there and then shipping it all the way up to the USA is going to be quite a task. It will be easier for the Argentines to take the oil to their ports. If I were playing Age Of Empires here I would seek a diplomatic solution which involved a bounty :)
@50 Hands Off,
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0l cannot believe what l'm reading.“the UK should use that chip to get a good price for the islands”
Now l know that you are an Argentine.
OUR Islands are not for sale.
The rest of your post is nonsense also.
1) the oil can be delivered in supertankers that have no need or reason to go anywhere near Argentina.
2) the Army already use the Falklands to train & they quite like the idea.
3) the Navy certainly need a presence in Antarctica, to stop Argentine expansion.
4) the Age of Empires is still here alright. And we are the stumbling block for the wannabe Argentine Empire.
Nice try, Hands Off.
You are an Argentine or at the very least an appeasement Brit.
Like Neville Chamberlain in 1938.
@ Hands Off,
Mar 22nd, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since every Argie has been indoctrinated from birth with “Las Malvinas son Argentinas” they would never agree to buy back something they “already own”. If any such proposal were even suggested it would merely serve to inflame their passions more and further convince them of the righteousness of their cause, as if that were possible. Anyway they would ask for long payment terms and then having occupied the islands would refuse to pay - this is their MO in case you hadn't noticed.
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