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S&P strong warning to UK on continuing negative outlook for the economy
Credit rating agency Standard & Poor's has reaffirmed its triple-A rating for the UK, but warned of the continuing negative outlook for the economy. S&P said it may downgrade the UK from the highest rating in the future if economic conditions worsened. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThe UK Government should not just focus on austerity, particularly not if it affects pensioners who worked for so long and deserve every penny they get from the current working population, they should now go for growth. Infrastructure projects in British controlled territories not subject to European fair competition rules are an excellent place to start. We should then follow it up by finding somewhere British to replace the revenue flow from the North Sea hydrocarbon fields and I don't mean Blackpool.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0good idea get that fracking going
Apr 06th, 2013 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2
Apr 06th, 2013 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, get the tracking going so long is you don't live where it's being done. Our problem is that our biggest export market, the EU, is a basket case. We need to be less reliant on Europe for trade. I don't think that the government is doing a lot wrong with the economy, new export markets are essential.
@3
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0unfortunately, most of us live near something we don't like.
@3 My point entirely and where better to look first than to UK sovereign territory both distanced and exempt from the European malaise and full of unearned wealth? I have in mind the Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands, of course.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0How does it continue to look negative when were in growth and its expected to be 1.6% growth per year for the next few years?
Apr 06th, 2013 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only negative i see are all the dam cuts! Though the reduction in company taxes will help growth and encourage bigger companies to stay or come to the UK, it won't help the smaller companies much that drive the economy!
@6 The growth in government expenditure (including debt repayments and debt interest payments) exceeds the growth in government income that would come about from the predicted growth rates. We need a substantive boost to government income and a reduction in expenditure. That's why we must, as we did with the Empire, look outside the British Isles to boost our Government income and spend as little as possible achieving it. Taxing unearned wealth held in the OverseasTerritories is the first and easiest way to start doing this.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't really understand this assumption that all pensioners (doctors, judges, etc) and unemployed people worked really hard and all that, when we're basically stealing from 2 generations down in order to keep them in comparative luxury, only to deliver to those generations absolute debt and no regard for the fact they'll be paying off the debt for their whole lives. GPs for example do little more than play minesweeper all day and hand out unnecessary antibiotics for colds. Hardly hard work.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Intergenerational theft at it's worst.
Shed-time
Apr 06th, 2013 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0I fully agree with you on that statement. Disregarding our ideological differences, one can not deny that this circus of loaning more and more money to pay for the currrent lifestyle, will have a sad effect on generations to come.
As it is, if you are under 40 years of age, the possibility of getting a decent pension is smaller day by day.
If you ask me, I'd say local production is the key, make it harder for companies to chase the lowest salaries and regulate the market so prices don't continue to rise and rise. Higher prices means high inflation is the salary doesn't join the race, and we all know the ghost of high inflation.
But above all, local production. That will ensure most people work, it will keep the products cheaper than having to import, and it will save the environment from the costs of transportation.
As for Europe today, if this free market thing continues, salaries will drop. They will have to, or all production will HAVE to move to Asia because of unjust competition. Prices will drop to, but never before the salaries.
They can forget their pensions as well, as there is no way on earth to finance them in the future, other than as golden parachutes for few selected ones.
@9 It's got nothing to do with the markets. Blaming neo-liberalism or any other market determinant isn't going to make an ounce of difference. It's ultimately about your country being effective and efficient in it's production of things people actually want to buy at a reasonable cost/profit. The fact is, if the UK stops making things people want to buy, we're screwed regardless of the marketplace in which we try to sell them in.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Labours attempts to flood the market with money through employing anyone sitting on their arses to be a final-salary pensioned do-nothing is worse than the conservative half-hearted attempt to cut costs. There needs to be a concerted effort on stimulating industries and not flooding the banks with free cash that they immediately off-shore as profits, never to be seen again.
Yes, someone needs to step into the civil service and improve efficiency and effectiveness through targeted investment, but civil servants are notoriously lazy and sh!t at their jobs, always thinking about going home or their pensions. Then they spend 50% of their time on sick-leave.
Ultimately, not-labour's plans are dreadful, conservatives have the right ideas but no balls. The governments role is to build the infrastructure to keep businesses competitive, businesses have a role to grow.
Otherwise we're just furked.
10
Apr 06th, 2013 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here is where our ideological differenced kicks in. Constant and eternal growth is not possible, as ultimately, all raw materials come from a not eternal and very limited earth. You wish to feed the market with something you can't afford. I'm not sure that is a solution at all.
Countries need to produce what people need to consume, not whatever sells, trying to still the hunger of a bottomless market. I repeat, you'd need quite a few earths for that equation to sum up.
It was ThinkDover's shift overnight then?
Apr 06th, 2013 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0*yawn*
@12 yes.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11 When companies die, new companies replace them. That's how it works. We're not all investing in massively overgrown pottery companies from the 1800's and we're not buying CDs any more, so capitalistic growth is relative, not eternal.
With the various flavours of socialism it isn't about consuming, it's about central control, which one would typically ascribe to communism. Just look at any centrally planned economy and you'll find corruption, waste and failure. It never ever works. Even that Killificofcolov Chap that is ruining the argentine economy knows that central planning leads to fail, and it's crippling argentina.
Nothing to do with ideology, it's everything to do with common sense, and learning from historical lessons.
Shed-time
Apr 06th, 2013 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Little does it matter what you produce, when it's the same raw material you use to produce it. You are talking as if we had an unlimited amount of different raw materials now, and we don't.
You also avoid the fact that production today is based on the fact that the product is not made to hold more than just enough time to ensure a re-sale within a short period of time. All to maintain the cyclus that makes growth a possibility.
Nobody is talking about centralized governing, as it has little to do with the subject.
Mr. McDod…..
Apr 06th, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reading comment (8) from Young English Turnip Mr. Greek Yogurt, I would suggest you to sell the Discovery and settle for a more subdued, classical piece of……….........................…. “English Engineering” :-)))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bIn_ZgHJaE
@14 Stevie (#)
Apr 06th, 2013 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 06th, 2013 - 04:47 pm
Already there is a fast growing recycling industry and it is getting bigger and more clever every day. Eventually they will recycle everything and this is where your new resources will spring from.
Ever heard of tip mining or trash trawling? There is a continent sized island of waste in the pacific and eventually it will need to be cleaned up. On a smaller scale fishermen in the UK are being contracted by recycling companies to trawl for waste when they are unable to trawl for fish. This is because waste is becoming a commodity. This industry will grow and so long as we produce waste innovations will arise to take advantage of it. Eventually waste will replace natural resources. From small acorns mighty oaks grow. From small isolated communities, mighty nations grow. It has ever been this way.
old news now http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22045938
Apr 06th, 2013 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 seriously, one tries to have a normal conversation with an argentine and their education just fails them. The opposite of a free-market economy is a planned economy, so yes, it has everything to do with the subject. That's unless your discussions of free markets was somehow discussing something else, and your alternative to this was something other than the orthodox.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it matters what you produce, all economists agree on that front. Clearly you're a retard.
Anyways...
Britain should be , and can be independent of the greedy incompetent European fools,
Apr 06th, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It only takes investment, [money]
And we have billions and billion of it,
Lovely money, billions of the stuff,
SADLY
We give it away to others
Overseas aid, the Euro boys , ect ect .
If only?
Cameron, not a chance, he sounds more and more brainwashed every time he tries to justify giving our money to others whilst we go bumpily bump..lol.
.
Warmonkey
Apr 06th, 2013 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“On a smaller scale fishermen in the UK are being contracted by recycling companies to trawl for waste when they are unable to trawl for fish.”
That very sentence implies something is very, very bad. Big scale fishing companies are emptying the waters of fish, riding the wave of the free market, and you see a solution in the fishermen fishing garbage instead. That is a very destructive approach, I would say.
Shed-time
Things like “Everybody knows that” and insults used as main argument are widely known trolling attributes.
Cheers for the chat.
@20 says you who's so called country purposely overfishes the south atlantic and encourages other SA countries to do the same, catching Ilex squid before they are at the required size and before they reach Falkland Islands waters, (which to me is an admission the Falklands exist to your fucked up goverment by the way), to try and get one over on the Falklands, and at the same time remain powerless to protect your own waters from Japanese super trawlers because you haven't enough ships to prevent it happening and gripe to all assunder about it. Get a grip FFS people in glass houses and all that.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@20 Thanks. The fact is though, you don't seem to understand the fundamentals of what you are saying. Blaming free markets for a country's demise is just utter nonsense.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are the ones defending the system that makes all that possible. The first thing I said was that local production was crucial. So get a frip FFS in your own little glass house. And all that.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 Which system? You mean the free-market system, that opposes the planned economy system?
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, we could try planned economies like 1950s USSR and China, modern North Korea and Argentina.. but look how that all worked out. Great idea there.
Shed-time
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My response was to slattzzz.
As you obviously don't know how to act as a normal human being when presenting your arguments, I will treat you like the child you behave like.
Tomorrow we'll talk, then you'll have another chance.
@25 No, you're just upset like a big girl, simply because your arguments make no sense. I'm not sure which union society you weren't a member of, but it shows.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0EOM
Not at all Shed-time. I even feel sympathy for you. Lets continue tomorrow. I promise not to hold any grudge against you.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 You're a big crying girl who was too badly educated to attend a real university with a union society of high debating credentials. That's fine, we understand.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Instead you have to resort to not really understanding political-economic principles.
Ok Shed-time. Night night now.
Apr 06th, 2013 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0when we remove ourselves from the EU ,
Apr 07th, 2013 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0the fishing will be brought back under british control,
and the big spannish fishing fleets and others will have to fish elswhere,
sounds a bit fish, but there ya go.lol.
@30 There will be no fish left. The spanish get paid not to fish, and then go fishing. That's hardly doing a lot for our fish stocks.
Apr 07th, 2013 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0They are greedy,
Apr 07th, 2013 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0But this fishing policy does not help us in any way.
And it does not help when they are allowed to dock at out ports to sell us our own fish,
We need a proper policy to protect not only to protect the fish stocks, but protection of British fishermen to fish and throw the greedy Spanish out,
what a greedy world we live in mmm
So Briton, you do agree with me that the market should be [more] controlled and we should aim for local production?
Apr 07th, 2013 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Japanese are outfishing the Spaniards in their waters. Just have a look at the tuna in the Mediterranean...
we need more control,
Apr 07th, 2013 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0but fair,
local fish stocks must be protected,
and internatianal waters must be protected also,
perhaps some kind of fish farms to help,
after all if no control is apparent and we end up in a free for all,
the fish and other sea life will disapear,
its just a matter of being sensible and not greedy,
why does man hunt everything to exintion.
34
Apr 07th, 2013 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fish farms is an excellent idea. One should be allowed to fish a sustainable quantity and everything above that, should come from a farm of the such you mention.
Only local fishermen knows the behaviour of the fish they live on and for the sealife to continue to flourish, one has to take that into account. Therefor I say, when we talk about industrial fishing, British fishing waters for the Brits, Spanish for the Spaniards. Japanese for the Japanese. Should any country need more fish than they produce, this could be acquired by trading with other nations. As every overconsumption, it should be charged accordingly.
Same with every raw material.
...because, as we all know, fish respect international boundaries and only feed, swim & reproduce within defined international waters.
Apr 07th, 2013 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(what an idiot)
36
Apr 07th, 2013 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously don't know what a fish farm is, do you, Anbar?
@37 You really shouldn't encourage @36 with the courtesy of a reply. He is as thick and obnoxious as pig manure and just about as useful. I'll say one thing for him though, he does tend to sign off his posts with highly accurate self descriptions.
Apr 07th, 2013 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(Doveoverdover)
well something will have to be done,
Apr 07th, 2013 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0before it all goes west,
fish farms may well help,
not the total cure, but help it will,
as for anbar,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
perhaps he just misunderstands the meaning of fishes swiming,
or fishing grounds.lol.
Briton
Apr 07th, 2013 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glad we agree.
Hold on to that idea and project it to every resource on the planet, because at this pace, we'll soon be rationing potable water. And making profit of the lucky ones.
you mean like electric , gas , and water,
Apr 07th, 2013 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the companies get richer and the people get ever higher bills,
and the goverment says, we can do nothing,
same all over the world then..
An interesting debate for a change without the usual shit slinging in spite of Mr Thinks effort to turn it into the usual diatribe
Apr 08th, 2013 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0As a food producer I am interested in the different views which I think are important
just goes to show adults can talk..
Apr 08th, 2013 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton
Apr 08th, 2013 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure we could have much more interesting conversations should we meet under other circumstances.
It is sad to hear constant bashing of the ones you care for, and personally, it is indeed a defeat every time I lower myself to that level.
I try not to insult though, but some people does it really for me at times.
You are not one of those though. Troy is another one that is interested in debating, not only bashing. My respect to you guys for that ability, and I hope we can share thoughts without resorting to insults.
More wonderful news from that miracle economy the UK everyone here keeps telling us argies about.
Apr 10th, 2013 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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