MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Gibraltar represents a road map
By Jose C. Moya (*) - The recent referendum’s near unanimous support for British rule seems to leave little space for negotiations. The passing of Thatcher -- who was seen as a liberator by most Islanders -- will, if anything, harden their position by reviving memories of the war. And the position of the Argentine population is equally hard, if the recent revival and political use of the issue by the government of Cristina Fernández de Kirchner is any indication. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“Britain and Argentina had a close relationship and with time should be able to find common ground over Falklands’ sovereignty.”
Apr 11th, 2013 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no common ground - Argentina will never have sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.
Where is the New York Times finding all these people for their “Room for Debate” section.?
The population is mainly British in ancestry so the culture of the Islands is more akin to New Zealand than to former British colonies in Asia or Africa. Therefore local support in Great Britain for the “Kelpers” will likely be stronger and more intransigent than for the residents of Hong Kong, who were mainly Cantones
Apr 11th, 2013 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice try, It didnt stop us protecting the “Brown people” of Belize from their bully neighbour
But, Rgland weeps that it wants The Falklands in its constitution, it has attacked the Islanders and in latter years has lied, lied, cheated, and lied again. Trust has been totally destroyed and replaced with aggression. The Rgs can wave farewell to the Falklands for ever. They are British and will remain so especially since the Islanders are rich and well defended. read the truth on sovereignty here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/malvinas/discuss/72157633209292361/
Apr 11th, 2013 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Malvinas do not exist, they never did .
@2:
Apr 11th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said regarding Guatemala's previous intentions towards Belize.
Naturally the islanders would be better off without the threat of invasion and ethnic cleansing hanging over their heads, but until Argentina have some psychotherapy that isn't likely to happen now is it?
Apr 11th, 2013 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#4
Apr 11th, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can remember in early 1960's when my brother's squadron of Shackletons did a flypast along the Guatemalan border with Belize to let the Guatemalans know there would be consequences if they tried anything. It seemed to have been noticed.
Major difference is that Maggie's iron balls turned into cotton with China.
Apr 11th, 2013 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With Guatemala they hardened again.
Self-determination, read “military power”
Argentina just has to wait...
Main difference Stevie is that Hong Kong is zero miles from China, used to be part of China, and much of the surrounding islands were only leased from China. The Chinese are the indigenous people of the territory.
Apr 11th, 2013 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands are 300 miles from Argentina, we're never part of Argentina, the Argentines are an implanted colonialist genocidal rabble.
So, all the lies that Argies tell about the Falklands, are far truer for Hong Kong, hence the negotiation.
This is what you fuckwits don't understand...but try and manipulate.
THE ARGENTINES HAVE NO HISTORICAL, MORAL, LEGAL, GEOGRAPHICAL, SELF-DETERMINATION, TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY ARGUMENTS...
Not one, zero, zilch nada. The Chinese have some..so we negotiated.
The Malvinista trolls can make shit up to pretend they have, CFK and Tinpot can lie to the UN and piss in the ear of equally stupid Latino leaders...it doesn't make a jot of difference...if they had a right we'd have negotiated years ago, 1/3 of the world has gained independence from Britain, 95% of that was peaceful...we don't and haven't wanted an Empire for 70 years...However nor do we want Argentina to empire build at the expense of decent human beings...so we defend them.
50 rapists, murderers and mutineers on the islands where they'd only arrived 2 months earlier...is not a sovereignty claim, it should be a national disgrace.
@7
Apr 11th, 2013 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said.
Another south american commentator, sticking his nose into issues that do not concern him. The islanders will soon be extremely wealthy and I doubt they will be wanting to discuss their sovereignty with anyone.
Apr 11th, 2013 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Gibraltar represents a roadmap”
Apr 11th, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed. A roadmap to 300 years of bipolar subhumans alternating between threatening and whining because they can't conquer and ethnically cleanse a much smaller community.
One day the spanish/argies might grow up, but history is not on their side.
What a shame. “There are no unbridgeable cultural or sectarian divisions between the British and the Argentines.” Yes there are. The Falkland Islands are called the Falkland Islands. Not some silly, imaginary Spanish name. Then they (argies) invaded and occupied them. Then we fought a war over them. 3 Islanders and 255 British servicemen were killed. By argies. At what point in time have argies abjectly apologised? What else? Oh, yes. Following illegal invasion and occupation. Following a war it lost. Argieland is still trying to lay its thieving fingers on the Islands. Let's make it clear for all argies. The Second Coming will take place first!
Apr 11th, 2013 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7
Apr 11th, 2013 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and await and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait.
Ah patience, such a virtue, which Argentina must surely possess in abundance, because they are going to need it!
The more you listen to these academics,
Apr 11th, 2013 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The more brain washed you will become,
It is obvious they are paid to convince you to talk,
But by doing that, you give ya soul to Argentina,
They want the lot, the whole lot, and nothing but the whole lot,
Tell them to Soddy offy.
13
Apr 11th, 2013 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0History shows that your convictions alter between firm and non-existant, all depending of the military power of your opponents vs your own.
Argentina doesn't have to wait until they get powerful enough to beat the bully. Like all bullies, their “power” cease to exist with time, and taking the direction of the winds into account, Britain is at the border of the abyss. And they are taking one step forward :)
Bennies:
Apr 11th, 2013 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are nothing but arrogant lambs. Your history of settlement on the islands is directly related to the will to colonise these islands. Do you have any ideas of your own concerning the progress of the islands or do you have to rely on the decisions taken by some official in London?
It is time that the Argentine claim to sovereignty should be properly scrutinised by the International Court of Justice. This scrutiny will reveal all the anomalies - Pope Alexander VI, Tordesillas, Nootka Sound misunderstandings and The Arana Southern Treaty ratified in 1850 which clearly shows that Argentina then had no ongoing claims against Britain.
Apr 11th, 2013 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This legal scrutiny would clearly establish that Argentina's claim consists of myths and fairy tales and will be rejected.
@15
Apr 11th, 2013 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0History also show that Argentina F'''''cked up big style.
Definition of a bully, “Someone who locks up an entire community in a single building, posts a guard and threatens to shoot them if they show their faces at the window.” Oh dear, wonder where that happened?
Where do you stand with your sandwich board. You know, the one that says, “Repent, repent, the end is nigh.”
You have missed your calling and speakers corner is missing a star!
@17 Gordo1
Apr 11th, 2013 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Taking the case to the ICJ would reveal this but Argentina would never go there, they know their claim is weaker than the grip of a 2 minute old baby. Their claim has so many holes you could replace it with swiss cheese. Metaphor metaphor metaphor. Problem is that Argentina is untrustworthy with regard to the ICJ. Argentina and Chile went to the ICJ and promised to abide by the ruling over the Beagle Channel dispute. At the end of the court case, the ICJ ruled in favour of Chile and so Argentine rolled its tanks toward Chile. Thankfully Pope JPII managed to mediate and averted war. Argentine integrity is near zero.
Stevie- can I educate on a historical fact - Argentina RECOGNIZED Belize,s Independence!!
Apr 11th, 2013 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thus Argemtina was in support of the UK defence guarantee in principle.
Yahano - Do wise up and get some facts if you wish to contiune on here - we decide all out own economics- laws- taxes etc. Our elected assemby debates and passes these laws - they then checked to make doubly sure they are all democratic and just and fair by London - we would not want you lot sqwuealling at the Un athat what we were doing was undemocratic/dictaorship.criminal etc would we?
London then sends them bacl anf the Queen,s Representative signs them into law.
But there would be one hell of a stink here and in UK if for some reason London tried to refuse one!(unless of course our lot were trying to do something criminal) It is the way the British do their constitution - it,s different from yours.
Much the same happens in Australia and Canada etc - without London having to check them off of course as those nations have their own teams of expert lawyers etc - we do not. But it is those nations Governor General,s who sign the Laws into action - and if they are unhappy about a law they can refer it to the Queen,s Privy Council in London.
Now - are Canada and Australia Independent? If not - why do you let them have Embassies in BA - and why do you have Embassies in their nations?
@15 Let me give you a tip. Around the year 5000 AD, when the human race has finally left planet Earth, argieland may finally obtain the Falkland Islands. although it might be “wise” to check for the nuclear landmines. Don't believe us? Don't care. You too can achieve orbital velocity. In several pieces.
Apr 11th, 2013 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 Aaah, a “newbie”. Official in London decides to drop a 10 kiloton nuclear warhead on a location that used to be called “Buenos Aires”. “Fair Winds” . Perfect for spreading nuclear fallout. Shall we say goodbye now? Your days are numbered and counting down.
“Argentina and Chile went to the ICJ and promised to abide by the ruling over the Beagle Channel dispute. At the end of the court case, the ICJ ruled in favour of Chile and so Argentine rolled its tanks toward Chile. ”
Apr 11th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never happened. Its all lies. The UN has always, and always will, support Argentina no matter what.
Even when it says it doesn't, it really means it does.
They are all brothers united in their hatred of all Europeans and their descendants.
Bunch of illegal land-grabbing colonialist squatters every single one of them.
(Luckily, judging by these fora, most Argentines live outside of Argentina, speak English and work for US$ or £Sterling or Euros.... Pesos..what are they?)
(There is, in case you are wondering, no hypocrisy involved in ANY of that... the UN said so...just ask Timmerman.)
I wish the rest of the world could understand Argentina the way you do Anbar! I know I do.
Apr 12th, 2013 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT
Apr 12th, 2013 - 06:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Following the death of world class politician St. Margaret of Finchley I have decided to rename Argentina. From today its new name in english is Thatchertina. Please use the correct new name from now on in your postings.
“There are no unbridgeable cultural or sectarian divisions between the British and the Argentines.”
Apr 12th, 2013 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, the Gibraltarians speak Spanish (although, like many Argentines, they are of Italian descent) have a land border with Spain and drive on the right, but they want to be part of Spain as much as the Portuguese and Andorrans do; ie: not at all.
“The population is mainly British in ancestry”
Apr 12th, 2013 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0- except 50% of them now have Spanish surnames.
Britain losing the war of the willy's .
Just like in the north of Ireland.
@24 VIVA THATCHERTINA!!!
Apr 12th, 2013 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@15 Stevie,
Apr 12th, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0To us, Argentina is the bully, & a cowardly one at that.
@16 yaghan,
You are an ill-informed arrogant nit-wit.
You have no idea what you are talking about & FYI we will have the type of government that WE want & its got nothing to do with you or Argentina.
#7 about 250 years at rg military power
Apr 12th, 2013 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#26 chilean surnames hows those apples?
'Except 50% of them now have Spanish surnames' Where? Gibraltar? People are more likely to have Italian, Maltese or Portuguese surnames.
Apr 12th, 2013 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funnily enough, half of Argentines are of Italian ancestry, loads have Italian passports, and one of them has been elected to the Italian Senate, representing the constituency of 'America Meridionale' - also known as 'South America' - http://inside.org.au/the-diaspora-fights-back/
Argies speak Spanish like Italians and Italian like Spaniards, so either way, they're stuffed!
Sorry, I want nothing to do with the most despicable culture that has ever existed in the history of the world. A culture that has NEVER respected another human being, i.e. the anglo-saxons.
Apr 12th, 2013 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#31
Apr 12th, 2013 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simple, stop writing in English, reading any literature in English, watching films or TV with English/American content and stop posting in MercoPress.
We do respect other human beings, it's only a peculiar type of Argie/Latino like you that we don't respect. Hate all Anglos if you so wish, we couldn't care less.
the anglo-saxons
Apr 12th, 2013 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he no lika saxon
but he like nazi , stalin , gaddafy , nice none choices.
How many Argies are aware that 98% of the Spanish-speaking Gibraltarians don't want to join Spain ? And, of those that are aware, do they ever wonder why? Do they ever stop to add dos y dos? And when they have finished calculating this very complicated conundrum does little light of understanding flicker in their heads?
Apr 12th, 2013 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or does their “government” lie to them on that issue as they do with the history of the “Malvinas”, 30% inflation rates, etc, etc?
31- guess that means you will never talk to or do business with- USA- Canada- Australia-New Zealand- Great Britain,large part of South Africa, and the remaining B.).T.s, Ireland(same folks back then), and several othe rnations as well.
Apr 12th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so if 31 thinks we dont exist , does not want to talk,
Apr 13th, 2013 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0then is he saying then, he wishes us all to ignore him,
better late than never we supose .lol
28 Isolde:
Apr 14th, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, your government has nothing to do with the UK, either. Sadly, the status of British Overseas Territory implies that it does not form part of the UK. What you surely keep is UK jurisdiction. You accept the Queen as head of State, and several appointed officials, such as your governor, your Chief Executive and the UK responsible minister. They were appointed at London, I am afraid. No referendum is applicable for their positions or am I wrong?
Is that a better position than electing your government yourself? What is it that you are defending so?
@37 yaghan,
Apr 14th, 2013 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As l said, its the type of government that WE want.
We are happy with it & are not going to change because some outsider thinks that its not good for us.
We are happy with the system that we have & isn't that what democracy is all about?
ln the future we may well change our system, but if we do, it will be to suit us & NOT Argentina.
Most of the members of the Executive Council are elected Members of the Legislative Assembly. Personally, I think the Chief Executive should be replaced by an elected Chief Minister, and the Director of Finance by an elected Minister of Finance, as is the case in other Overseas Territories, like Bermuda or Gibraltar. I'd also like to make the position of Governor ceremonial, and have the UK Government separately represented by a Commissioner. Singapore had a similar arrangement before it got full independence -
Apr 14th, 2013 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/11/newsid_2828000/2828903.stm
However, there's no demand for any of these changes in the Falklands, nor is there any demand for integration with the UK - the UK doesn't 'do' integration, like the French do - hence French Guiana having seats in the French Parliament.
The UK government Minister of State responsible for the Overseas Territories has no constitutional powers in any of them, so not being elected makes no difference.
I'm all in favour of further constitutional reforms, but only if local people want them, not because outsiders can't understand the existing arrangements.
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