MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
A view from the Falklands on Margaret Thatcher's legacy
By Mike Summers (*)
The reports on the reaction in the United Kingdom to the death of Baroness Thatcher have shown a clear contrast between those who approved of her policies and those that did not. This is understandable and is no doubt true of any prime minister. However, here in the Falkland Islands there is very little difference of opinion. Margaret Thatcher is held in high regard and with deep affection by Islanders, for she is someone to whom we owe much. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesPoverty went up under Thatcher meanwhile she cut taxes for the rich and corporations, that's how she is going to be remembered.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0“They are few in number but they have the right to live in peace, to choose their own way of life and to determine their own allegiance.”
Apr 13th, 2013 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0she forgot to add
“...but not the chagossians. Ƒǖck those guys”.
She's like a British Female version of George W. Bush - completely confident in front of the world, blissfully unaware of the undreamable level of blatantly obvious hypocrisy in every word she spewed.
What islanders fail to understand is that the status quo is a double-edged sword. As such, it can be understood for them to take a position contrary not just to Argentina's position but against the very idea of the possibility that Argentina is correct, and has been wronged. You seem to want to maintain that hardened position, because you wrongly believe that you are fighting to preserve what you consider yours. You are not of a disposition that would even allow you to consider the possibility that reunification does not immediately imply an end, immediate or creeping, total or partial, of your way of life and that which defines you as a people.
What you fail to see is that it is not where you are that defines you as a people, it is what you do. We Argentines should be the best example to you in that regard. Internal political strife and a complete (and continuing) mismanagement of vast resources, continually enabled by both armed conflict and systemic corruption, have so wounded and shaped our culture as to abhor the concept of war, and to a certain degree, of even continuing to have an effective defense force. These unfortunate events have taken our national attention off you, and truly we have been remiss.
But the stakes change when we're going from simply living and controlling territory and fisheries, to energy sources. The interested parties know exactly where this is heading, and they should tread carefully. It won't be up to the people of Argentina, just like it wasn't for Americans and Britons before going into Iraq.
Oil. It's always about oil.
@2 You will be pleased to note that the US oil interest groups probably agree with your conclusion. There is some evidence that they are firmly in support of maintaining the status quo as a result. Their practical and financial support for the Referendum observation mission and their response in Washington to the result indicates just that. The next 50 years may be an opportunity for Argentina to address those internal problems you identify but it would be sensible not to hope for any substantive progress on sovereignty negotiations before then. But then, that's exactly what you are suggesting I think.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0“These unfortunate events have taken our national attention off you, and truly we have been remiss.”
Apr 13th, 2013 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0In what parallel universe do you live in ? Every other street has the mythical Malvinas in its name, and your government spends a wholly disproportionate amount of its time and media budget on the subject. If the current Argentine economy is what happens when you are focussing on it and not on the Falklands, I'd hate to think what it would be like if you took your eye off the ball.
And it wasn't about oil in 1690, 1833, 1850 and 1982.
@1,2 &3
Apr 13th, 2013 - 08:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0To quote Maggie “cowardice, cowardice”
@2
Your country is on the edge mate, the last thing your going to be thinking about in the near future is the Falkland Islands. If I lived in Argentina I would be very worried indeed about the future.
Viva KaMoron legacy of MT he is doing a good job like Maggie.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0No carriers, no planes, no RN, no jobs, no hope, no economy, all going down but poverty in UK.
Are you not happy boys?
I will make a prediction, two RN carriers will be at sea whilst your ice breaker is still in dry dock being repaired! Guinness Book of Records will no doubt be getting in touch with you soon.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 I'm at a loss to know why you think the post @3 demonstrates cowardice.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's right Dany, you keep believing your version of reality. Next time you are in Argentina, do a strawpoll of it's citizens and ask them if they'd be willing to swap their economy, security, governance and future for that of the UKs. I'd suggest you wear teeth proof steel plated armour, particularly around the hand and arm areas.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0None of you Malvinistas were in Britain when Mrs T was our PM. What you are saying is total nonsense and just what know nothing kids are saying. You know nothing of a country under the boot of unions. Having your electricity cut off by continuous strikes 30% inflation and taxpayers subsidising scroungers. She fixed that. She humiliated you Argies and made Britain rich again. You are talking total bullshit.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos - do please explain to us then how come property ownership and the standard of living and quality of life overall went up during her time in office - and how come she won 3 elections in a row?
Apr 13th, 2013 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Something - a lot - does not back what you say.
Dover - you are pretty well on the mark.
Then there are the three terms of office held by, “New Labour” though I suppose like most detractors, he thinks they made no contribution to any of the current economic problems we are now undergoing and that it is all infact, the fault of Thatcher.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”“...but not the chagossians. Ƒǖck those guys”.“””
Apr 13th, 2013 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, same with the Patagonians... its terrible she didnt give them self-determination. Maybe she should've had the Army invade Argentina and kick out the illegal implanted squatters there.
It would have solved a heck of a lot of problems.
#1 to #3
Apr 13th, 2013 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sore losers much, arf!
Im not going to pretend thatcher was a saint, as a child in the 70s/80s up north i remember the hardship and suffering under thatchers government, but that is nothing compared to the fear and anxiety The Falklands folk must have endured under he murderous argentine junta rule during those dark months.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0I totally understand why thatcher has such strong support in The Falklands also the south of england, I would too if she brought hope,freedom and happiness, unfortunately for many working class families for the rest of the UK she didnt............similar to todays government.
@1
Apr 13th, 2013 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0As usual you are talking through your arse, she lifted millions out of poverty, cut taxes from 98% to 50% & will be remembered for putting the 'Great' back in Great Britain
@2
You seem to forget that Arg has distorted the true events of 1833 for it's own gain & that it cannot accept responsibility for it's actions in 1982 therefore the Brits & Falklanders will never accept ' very idea of the possibility that Argentina is correct'
@3
Agree in principal but the oil bonanza is not guaranteed.....it's still in exploration/development stage
@10
Exactly right....what do a bunch of left wing socialist Bolivarian Campora trolls know about life in the UK in the 80's
She didnt liberate nothing in Malvinas.............europeans prime ministers and old queens coming to SAm to fight for land, its not a liberation.........IT IS A COLONIZATION. The same way that happens when you go to Afghanistán Irak or Libia. Modern way of colonization of other territories for oil and resources, you dont have. Such mixing concepts and using words not for their real meanning, come on.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malen - please look up Colonization in a disctionary. You will find that it describes a situation where a people are put- against their free will - under a Governemnet they do not want nor have chosen.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now please explain what happened on 2nd April 1982 to the local elected elected Govt of the Islands? - the system of Govt that the people that lived there were happy with.
Please explain what happened to it between 2nd April and 14th June 1982.
Plank! of course Thatcher did not liberate the Malvinas!
Apr 13th, 2013 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why the hell would the Britsh want to liberate an Argentine housing estate.
Your logic is totally beyond me!
Lol at Malen, Danny and Marcos trying to rewrite history and it would seem logic as well. Having an opinion is fine no matter how ridiculous but trying to state historic facts and lying is unforgivable.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Danny as ever claims we have no military when we've just built 6 of the most advanced destroyers in the world at a cost of 6 billion, we are building 2 super carriers and have recently produced the Astute class and spend over 70bn a year on defence where as Argentina can't afford to send its ships to see for more than 10 HOURS A YEAR! has less than 25% operational capacity AND NO OPERATIONAL AMMO, its flag ship remains burnt out after a fire several years ago and one of its only operational ships sunk in port! BWHAHAHHA
Thats a strong fantasy......
And as for our economy 6th largest in the world vs Argentina which about 30th and has terrible problems with sky rocketing inflation, can't pay its debts and is about to default again.
Now which country would you choose to live in?
LOL
@1 No, she is going to be remembered, by proper people, for re-balancing British society and the British economy. It was not her fault that the Labourite free-loaders and scroungers managed to elect Labour governments so that they could continue living for free. She will also be remembered for her resolve in permitting British forces to stamp on argie “balls”. Particularly good was the decision to turn an argie/American can into a coffin. A very important feature of that “action” was noting how fast argie “destroyers” could run away. Weren't those WW2-era torpedoes good?
Apr 13th, 2013 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 What are “chagossians”? Do you mean those Mauritian ex-slaves whose employer abandoned them and whose government stole their money?
It would be interesting, although pointless, to consider the “re-unification” of a peaceful English-speaking territory with a warmongering, genocidal Spanish-speaking wannabe imperium.
It seems strange that, if you abhor war, you are engaged in economic warfare. A strange approach when one considers your massive unpaid overseas debts, your ships that sink at their moorings, your aircraft with “fall-off” wings, your new reliance on windpower to propel your “flagship” and your need to import energy on a massive scale.
But, don't you worry, it's not all about oil. If the Falklands oil industry comes into being, it will be sensibly managed. Not splurged as argieland did. And there will be “fallback” positions. Because British and British-descended people are sensible, practical people.
And all that will happen to their “enemies” is that they will, one way or another, die. Think creeping through what used to be your “cities” in your loincloth. Looking for someone weak or unwary that you can eat.
@6 Lots of missiles! Conventional, tactical or nuclear, strategic. Ready?
@17 Sorry, girlie. As we proved, you have, and are, NOTHING. Except, perhaps, a mouth. But then you're a gutless, murdering, invading, occupying genocide as well, aren't you? You're NOT wanted!
Malvinistas 0. Mrs Thatcher 42. !!!!
Apr 13th, 2013 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol, Rg Malvanistas, sick know nothing guess...
You weren't there, you have never been to the Falklands, you know nothing!
@Orbit
Apr 13th, 2013 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you serious?
First would be hard for an argie to point on the map where UK is to start with. Like happens with the Americans, you have to tell them “The English” this little country close to Ireland you know?
Some times they confuse American with English because you are so irrelevant to them like for the rest of SA.
“their economy, security, governance and future for that of the Uks”
Are you joking again?
What economy are you talking about if the whole Islands lives on pure debt?
You cannot find anything made in England even in England but debt of course you are very good on that.
Have you ever thought why there are more Brits in Argentina than Argies in UK?
Not even in 2001 crisis there were willing to go to Britain why they will want to go now if they are better than you?
Security in uk where?
If you don’t get stabbed by a teenager on the streets of London, for sure you can be killed by food intoxication in your local supermarket.
@Xect
“Now which country would you choose to live in?”
UK is pretty ugly, grey is raining all the time its cold and looks like the third world.
Even the Swedish make fun of you.
“Where do you want to go tonight?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-J9ZpQYW8s
Aughhhh!
No way you can convince an Argie to go to live in Britain at least she/he wants to commit suicide by dying for depression.
@Conqueror
Coward you didn't want to give me your address in Britain after you threaten me by posting here.
So can you shut up please? and stop threaten women?
Coward and idiot that is too much
@2 . It's no longer about oil . Now that uranium has been discovered on West Falkland , it's about a whole lot more . The US government are building a new harbour to ship the uranium to west coast of the United States , and they too will have ships and troops on the islands to protect them from Iran and China .
Apr 13th, 2013 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0US Navy SEALS blew up the oil farm in La Plata on the instructions of Obama , to make the price of oil go up to test Cristina's relationship with Chavez's replacement Maduro .
The sinking of the Belgrano ?An insurance scam between Thatcher and Galtieri .The ship was insured by Lloyds of London and the premium was paid the day before the sinking by a member of Propanga Due .
Thatcher also had Antonio Rattin sent off in the quarter final against England in 1966 .
The British actually introduced football to Argentina to distract them from the Falklands issue and to make them indebted to Britain for absolutely everything , even their spare time .
I am amazed Peron didn't abolish it .
@24 - You've forgotten about last weeks rare-earth finds in the southern parts of West Falklands: they reckon it will break the virtual monopoly of CHina on rare-earths and earn the Falklands an estimated 32 billion a year...and because it runs deep it could last for more than 100 years.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That'l mean they can build half a dozen super-carriers themselves...or just buy Argentina wholesale.
hahaha Danyberger lives in europe and he's defending Argentina :) got to laugh at that!!
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do any of these “argentines” live in that South american? or did they all runaway to europe! :)
“” or did they all runaway to europe! :)“””
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you mean runaway BACK to Europe..?
They're all illegally implanted squatters remember.
Danyberger, you are a prize pray!
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Without its Rolls Royce engines your Botox woman's Aircraft Tango 1 would fall out of the sky.
Britain makes lots of things, from fashion to Aircraft Carriers. Don't listen to the knockers 11% of our economy is manufacturing and we have the biggest financial services hub in the world, the City of London.
What has Rgland got? Corned beef! Hobo ho....Hahaha
Losers
UK is pretty ugly, grey is raining all the time
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile in the garden of eden
Argentinian rescuers search for bodies after devastating floods
Dozens have been killed and more than 250,000 left without power after torrential rain in Buenos Aires and La Plata
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/05/argentinian-rescuers-search-bodies-floods
If you don’t get stabbed by a teenager on the streets of London
A 354-line bus driver suffered an amputation of his finger by criminals who robbed him in Florencio Varela town during the early hours today.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/05/argentinian-rescuers-search-bodies-floods
.
27 anbar. lol true, one has to feel sorry the “true” Argentines all 1% of the population. I do love it when they white wash (no pun intended) there history of colonial expansion >_
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://rt.com/news/nuclear-waste-english-channel-785/
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the real British for you. Destroy the environment, subjugate others, dump your garbage into other's backyard.
Read that Summers. You British are anything but decent.
@1, 2 and 3 what a load of shit
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1 what a load of pish you talk she lifted millions out of poverty.
@2 what the fuck has Diego garcia got to do with it you have no understanding or knowledge of the chagossians. A little bit of googling would put you straight but that would be the truth something that doesn't sit comfortably with you.
@3 bet you didn't drip when she gave you a 33% pay rise if you were of course in the RN, which of course you weren't except in your fooked up dreams.
@23 First would be hard for an argie to point on the map where UK is to start with. Thats because they are thick as fuck. Have you ever thought why there are more Brits in Argentina than Argies in UK?
Cos it's cheap as fuck, and we dont let rg's in and you live in EUROPE YOU HALFWIT so stop gobbing off or move back to rgenweener and pay some taxes and help out instead you chose to pay taxes to the EU and Britain, what a tosser you are.
HMS Diamond and Bulwark in Rosyth today, had a look. Be scared Rgs very scared what a piece of kit.
11 Islander1 “and how come she won 3 elections in a row?”
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0George W. Bush(almost bankrupt US) won “two” elections too, I don't know how to explain stupidity.
@33 I can explain stupidity Marcos alejandro say no more.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@31 notice you never slag off the Belgiums is that because they don't have anything to do with the Falklands, you are a twat. A misinformed and cowardly one at that.
@34
Apr 13th, 2013 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know very well I treat all Europeans equally as they deserve, as rabiose DOGS.
Belgium will get theirs coming for their Zaire adventures.
Now you understand why we don't want your ships even remotely close to our shores. You probably were dumping garbage and nuclear waste on our coasts. How much you want to bet in 10-30 years British waste will be found off the coast of Argentina?
@35 probably because we will own your sorry arses by then, not that will effect you living in Europe eh?
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@36
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Own what? You can't pay your own bills you soot and dirt covered Euro.
I don't live in any of your filthy societies, you can believe that.
#35 we have a saying _ keep Britain tidy, dump your rubbish in Argentina
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”She (Margaret Thatcher) made clear, perhaps before many had ever had cause to consider it, that the people of the Falkland Islands have the right to self-determination,” writes MLA Mike Summers.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If that were indeed the case, then Margaret Thatcher made a terrible mistake. The right to self-determination is indeed “enshrined” in the United Nations Charter. Article 1 (2) refers to the “self-determination of peoples”. But this same right had been withheld from the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands by the United Nations on December 16th, 1965, when the General Assembly passed resolution 2065 (XX) Question of the Falkland Islands/Malvinas. Herein the islanders are defined as a “population”, to distinguish them from a “people”.
Margaret Thatcher was either wrongly advised or she took the wrong decision. The recent release of her private papers suggests the latter.
@38
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Refreshing honesty. From a britto himself. Now for all time I have the quote I need to prove the British have never done anything for the good of others.
Toby, you prat, I am just one Briton, not all Britons. Get back in your pram. You speak a load of tripe but we all realise you are just one Rg, not all Rgs. The rest are probably all more intelligent :-)))
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@31 Troll
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Up to your standard again, more ridiculous links again.
Hurd Deep is 152,888 meters long, 1600-4800 meters wide, and up to 172 meters deep. Assuming that Hurd's Deep is 3,200m wide on average and only 50m deep on average, its volume is 24,462,080,000 m3. That conservative volume estimate is 4 times as much water as necessary to dilute ALL of the dumped radiation to drinking water levels if it was all released simultaneously. And since the radiation is not all being released at once and there is inflow/outflow from the deep, it probably wouldn't even come close to reaching those levels.
Story is just to scare you. High school math and 10 minutes on Google is enough to show that there is almost no threat posed by this radiation.
@37 no i don't believe you (cant think why maybe your previous posts) you live in europe we all know that, so give up numpty if your going to try and pretend at least pay attention to what you've wriiten in the past, your starting to sound like Sussie FFS
Apr 13th, 2013 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@38 to true they wouldn't notice anyway
@39: C&P imminent:
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“”“”The Argentine government maintains Resolution 2065 represents an endorsement by the UN General Assembly of their sovereignty claim. While there was support for their position during the debates in the Special Committee on Decolonisation and in the Fourth Committee of the General Assembly, there is nothing in the text of the Resolution that directly sustains such a conclusion. There is no explicit reference to operative paragraph 6 of Resolution 1514 (see above) nor to maintaining “territorial integrity” of a divided country. Resolution 2065 merely invited the Argentine and British governments to proceed with negotiations “with a view to finding a peaceful solution”. The strongest point made by the Argentine government is that reference to the “interests of the population” implies “leaving aside the principle of self-determination” (see A/66/696, p. 7), but in the light of diplomatic practices of constructive ambiguity this is insufficient to be regarded as endorsement of the Argentine claim to sovereignty.
The UN is willing to accept independence, integration with a neighbouring country, integration with the colonial metropolitan country or free association with another country, as outcomes from decolonisation. In each case, this has been done with the explicit approval of the people of the territory, through an election or a plebiscite. The only exception, since the establishment of the Special Committee on Decolonisation, has been the return of Hong Kong to Chinese rule. “””
end. Of.
@44 says it all night night trolls
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MAGGIE made the wrong decision? Don't think so, ask any of the FALKLANDERS?
@46 correct rgenweener made the wrong decision and still is
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 [holds head in hands] you've missed the point completely... Not swap countries, swap economy, security, governance.... Never mind, stick to your socialist dream lat am style, am sure the government knows how to run all the companies it's taken over, there will be efficient production, 0 accidents, no corruption, greener than green environmental credentials like every nationalised experiment before it... A complete success. Keep spraying the weedkiller, it's all good, who wants more than one crop anyway, and make sure you re-elect the “successful lawyer” in 2015 to keep Argentina in its golden age.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos- lets try another angle- HOW come the Labour Govt that succeded the Conservatives in 1997 then kept the Union and Privatization laws etc as they were and did not chage and reverse them - and despite this then they also won 3 elections in a row?
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think I can see who rh stupid one is! But fair do - at least you did respond.
Maj Gen Jeremy Moore today admitted that he paid Gen. Menendez to “ lose the Falklands War ” . Documents released under the 30 year rule show that British Forces were on the verge of surrendering to the Argentine garrison but that Margaret Thatcher got Moore to Gen Menendez 10 million dollars to throw the war and surrender .
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gen Moore admitted “ We lost both carriers and every ship in the task force was sinking . All the Gurkhas had been killed , run away or changed sides .3 Commando Brigade said they wanted to go home and watch the World Cup that was about to start ” .
Menendez was paid off and given a new identity .He lives in Portugal and Jose Mourinho is his eldest son .
The two aircraft carriers that sailed into Portsmouth were actually cardboard mock ups made at Pinewood Studios .
When asked where the money came from , a British govt spokesman said
“ It was Osvaldo Ardiles transfer fee. River Plate were livid , as they never got a penny of it ”
@23 http://www.ibtimes.com/did-pope-francis-support-killings-kidnappings-during-argentinas-brutal-dictatorship-survivors#
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0History at the moment, soon to become the facts again, and the sad thing is YOU KNOW IT, hence all your rhetoric and bullshit, because you haven't a leg to stand on ref the Falklands or anything else. Even a Somalian would stay in Somalia than move to rgenweener, hence you live in Europe you two faced low life
#40 Ah... more continental envy - again, by what criteria does SA ever even come close to rivalling Western and Northern Europe other than football (and bio-diversity and natural scenery).
Apr 13th, 2013 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How does it feel Malvinistas to know that the one thing you truly want, that you pin all your dreams and desires on, will never be yours?*
* I challenge you to outline a realistic scenario where you will ever take the Falklands off their owners.
“Thatcher-Reagan: decline of common man”
Apr 13th, 2013 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”With both Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher now gone, one cannot help but reflect on the horrible damage these two caused for the common, working man and woman. Their legacy continues to haunt us.
Today, jobs that are good-paying, secure jobs are hard to come by for the average Yank or Brit..
http://www.whitefishbaynow.com/blogs/communityblogs/201977551.html
Has a banana boat just arrived in BA? There seems to be a bit of a troll feeding frenzy on the go...maybe La Campora has started 'paying ' them again.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos
Apr 13th, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WTF is Lester SCHULTZ?
Former President Menem of Argentina is to receive a knighthood from the Queen , as part of the last will and testament of Margaret Thatcher .
Apr 13th, 2013 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the will she says “ Carlos Menem was a true exponent of neo liberal economics in Argentina . he privatised everything in sight and gave Argentinians a work ethic . He wasn't on the phone every 5 minutes about the Falklands either , but then he didn't have to be , because the people were so well off they did not need distracting for a change ”
@53 Macrcos
Apr 13th, 2013 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow, that great national newspaper from Whitefish Bay!!!!
Anybody would think we are obsessed with Margaret Thatcher,
Apr 13th, 2013 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well only history will determine that,
But we can note a few facts,
Very few people in this world are controversial enough to enter the talking world of debate forever,
Margaret Thatcher will be one of them,
In decades from now, people-historians – academics will debate if she was right or wrong,
And was / were they jealous of envious of her,
But you know what ,
Good or bad , loved her or hated her, she will be debated about for centuries,
In the meantime will Cameron, clegg, or the labour leader make the grade?
Answer no.
But boy will they all try to emulate her..lol
Just my thought..
.
The Iron Lady got up Argentina's nose in 1982 and low and behold she is still doing it even after her death. One great lady who had the courage to stand firmly for what is right and just both on the Islands and in the UK. Yes she hurt some people on the way but those she hurt were also bullies and would have eventually brought Britain to its knees had she not stepped in and stopped the Trade unions rampage. Argentina need never have feared the Iron Lady if they had not been so stupid to invade my homeland in 1982. You got what you deserved. Her memory will live on forever in the islands and give us even more reason to determine our future.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@59 ... Considering that Brits like you were subjugated to a foreign invasion, why do you people then go gung-ho about invading other people's homelands? Oh, maybe the Iraqis in your Anglo racial scale don't fully qualify as human, so it was ok to invade and drop bombs on them.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can one of you brainless trolls explain to me just how CFK was elected in the first place, how she was re-elected and just who are those (Maradona?) who believe she should run for a third term? Will La Cámpora allow you to address my questions?
Apr 13th, 2013 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have a private bet with a friend that she will be out on her botoxed rear end before the end of her current term.
23 DanyBerger ----- Your one fucked up individual cant say much more about you other than say you talk out of your arsehole.
Apr 13th, 2013 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@61 ”Can one of you brainless trolls explain to me just how CFK was elected in the first place, how she was re-elected and just who are those (Maradona?) who believe she should run for a third term?”
Apr 13th, 2013 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Allow me to answer your questions. CFK was elected because under Nestor the economy was doing well and the people expected her to keep the same track. Keep in mind it was only at the end of Nestor's term that the INDEC started getting manipulated and inflation was just starting to rise.
Shortly after CFK got elected, in 2008, she began reacting to growing opposition with authoritarism. During the rural uprising in 2008, Cristina and Nestor began behaving like dictators. After Clarin, which used to support the Kirchners, began to throw dirt on them (Clarin has a habit of supporting governments initially then betraying them as soon as public support begins to drop), CFK declared war on Clarin. CFK formed bands like La Campora to build support and began creating a propaganda network with shows designed to make the people support the government against Clarin. The propaganda worked: many people bought it and became Kirchnerists. The economy was tanking at that time due to the Goldman Sachs financial crisis, but CFK tackled it with government spending. She talked banks, supermarkets, car dealers and appliance stores to make discounts on everything and make loans to drive up consumption, since the PR guys know consumption makes people happy and willing to vote the status quo. People began buying cars and TVs en masse, and voted CFK on her second term. After the elections the economy began to tank as people got indebted and we ran out of dollars.
The people supporting CFK for a third term are people who support the Kirchners, either politicians or guys from La Campora. But the people don't seem to want CFK to change the Constitution and go on a second term.
60 John Troll the 3rd (#) For your information I personally do not support war of any kind and as for shouting the odds when Britain supported America in the Iraqi war I was only a listener on a radio thinking if Sadam Husain is a good person why did he invade Kuwaiti. Then it dawned on me he was no different to those Argentine Dictators who invaded my home in 1982. That is why Britain supported America to stop him and they did. The idea fall out after that war was conveniently moved to paint the allies black because there appeared to be no weapons of mass destruction. I see it as the destruction was when Sadam invaded another Country but of course Argentina would not understand the average thinking person because from where I am I have only seen Argentina invade another Country My Country. I doubt that Argentine citizens have ever had their Country invaded as many times as we have so I really think you are not actually qualified on this subject 60 John Troll the 3rd (#).
Apr 13th, 2013 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sick of hearing Argentines telling me that my Hoe belongs to them. They have absolutely no grounds to base that argument because they never ever settled these lands legally prior to the first British settlement. But of course they would never admit to that because their Rulers have brainwashed them to think otherwise. That is how sad they really are. Totally ignorant to th ereal world and the truth. Our fellow representatives have recently been touring Latin America and have opened the eyes of a lot of people just how much of a liar Argentina is when putting out propaganda about my homeland. The real truth is out there and one day Argentina will have to accept it. Margaret Thatcher was one such person who believed in the real truth. May she now rest in peace.
Tito The Clown Troll 35, 37, 40, 60
Apr 13th, 2013 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok so you are a retard. You all your posts have proved that. Just answer me this ( if you can ) are you really as brainless and stupid as your posts suggest or is it just an act for this forum?
Your laughable attempt at trying to construct a valid reposte has me rolling in my chair with merriment......
“You know very well I treat all Europeans equally as they deserve, as rabiose DOGS”
ok, so we know you are a racist then. you see? Your hate has blinded you ( again ). You are a decendant of spanish settlers. Your parents ( if you have them ) are also decendants from the same European stock..... So, I am to take it from that statement that you also hate yourself as your fore-fathers were Spanish.
Wow.... Don't worry sweetheart, if I was you, I'd hate myself as well.
“Oh, maybe the Iraqis in your Anglo racial scale don't fully qualify as human”
eeeerrrrr after your previous comment, pot, kettle, black.... As you have so pointedly said you hate 3/5th's of the world's population ( including yourself ) I really don't think you are qualified to ask that question.
64 kelperabout
“I am sick of hearing Argentines telling me that my Hoe belongs to them”
You've got a hoe? I'm not supprised the Rg's want her, probably going to make her a culture minister or something like that.....
Me and the wife went shopping for a garden hoe at the yesterday.... only non of them wanted to work at the weekend!!!!
Respec!!
65 toooldtodieyoung (#) simple spelling error it was meant to read home . That of course would not be the word you wanted to read though would it. My home Your desires My wishes to keep my Home, Your desires to Take it . You are as thick as THINK and as sad as they come . But would not expect you to be anything else by the crap you write. At least my mistake was in the typing . Argentina's Mistake was in the bullying . Liars , Dictators , call it what you like that is what Argentine governments are and we should avoid them like the plague They can never be trusted , will attempt to steal what is not theirs and have already done that when they stole the Country from it's indigenous people but we are not allowed to remind them of that are we.
Apr 14th, 2013 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and what is the last word you wrote
respect!! not sure what that word is but assumes it is respect. Would it be to much to believe that you have some for the Islanders.
6 DanyBerger (#)
Apr 14th, 2013 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 13th, 2013 - 09:00 am
So under these circumstances how is the UK 'militarising' the South Atlantic?
I'm confused.
LONG LIVE! Margaret Thatcher.
Apr 14th, 2013 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0@33 Marcos 'I don't know how to explain stupidity'.
Apr 14th, 2013 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I looked it up in a dictionary and there was a picture of you.
#23
Apr 14th, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Have you ever thought why there are more Brits in Argentina than Argies in UK?”
Patently obvious. Incentives made for Britains to emigrate to Argentina as good breeding stock and to raise the collective IQ to near 100 -I admit, a difficult prospect.
We are fussy about whom we admit from third world countries. There are enough Hispanics/Latinos heading our way already - no need for the ersatz varieties from Arg. land.
@23 Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. That's the argie “education” system for you. Too busy with the current “re-education” on the new “revised” history, are they? Not to mention “foreign languages”. Proper pronunciation of the words “Sieg Heil”!
Apr 14th, 2013 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0What “economy” are you talking about? I don't have any debts. Everything I have is paid for. House, furniture, TVs, computers, clothing, car. All paid for. Not a single debt.
Why are there more Brits in argieland than argies in the UK? Because we know how to get to places. And we think it's interesting to look at your slums. And we can afford it. And we're picky about who we let in.
“Threaten you by posting here”? Can't you find that marble you used to have? There's no point in “threatening” a psychotic. There are various things that psychotics can't “get”. Facts, reality, truth, logic. All beyond them. For “coward” please see “argie armed forces”. As for “women”, what “women”? You see, as far as I know, there are “ladies”, “women” and “females”. Lots of things come under the heading “females”. Bitches, cats, harlots, hookers, prostitutes, sluts. All the ladies and women I know of have proper recognisable feminine names. So, where are these “women” you refer to?
@31 Funny. Did you notice the name of the place? ENGLISH Channel. Ours!
@33 Describe yourself. See, explaining stupidity is easy!
@35 You mean you'll have found something else to lie about!
@37 Eating all that contaminated latino “food”? Yuk!
@39 Sorry. Your “UN resolution” doesn't apply.
@40 Here's a quote for you. “Argentines surrender.”
@53 “whitefishbaynow”? Would you like an article from the Toytown Village Newsletter?
@60 No, most Iraqis are OK. “Argies” though. Definitely sub-human. Just read the comments they come out with on here!
Dany Berger (23): tell me in one respect that Argentina (or South America) surpasses the United Kingdom (or Europe). The UK has lower crime, better health indicators, lower inequality, the list goes on... In every way the UK is a better place to live.
Apr 14th, 2013 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tell me one way!
@inthegutter
Apr 14th, 2013 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well one thing is what indicators says and another is the really.
1- It is not true that in UK or in any other parts of Europe there is less crime than in Argentina in fact London is a pretty dangerous city. I can still walk for the streets of Buenos Aires to 4 5 6 in the morning I wouldn’t do that in certain places in Europe.
2- Health indicators, well sure UK has not good health indicators because after US is the country with more people with diabetes, cardiac diseases, about 3m of malnourished, extreme obesity, drinking problems, etc, etc long list here.
3- “lower inequality” that is really good mate, in UK while you have a Lords living with a bonus of 30 millions pounds at year thanks to banker corruption in the other extreme you have millions living in slums with 8k pounds at year. Pretty equal I can see.
4- UK is not a good place to use a reference of standard of living all is expensive and salaries are the lowers for workers, food is terrible, housing expensive, etc, etc
5- Europe is with a rate of 25% of poverty at the moment and some countries like Spain has 26% of unemployment. And UK also would have a good figure but hidden with your inventive statistics like use to do USAMEx.
UK is not a better please to live than Argentina that may be true for you because you don’t know other thing and for monolingual barriers which I understand because would be quite difficult for you to get your ration of Kebabs in Spanish in Buenos Aires.
SYL
73 DanyBerger
Apr 14th, 2013 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A bit of careless comment for an Argentinian - “Well one thing is what indicators says and another is the really.”
BA is such a safe city -
http://www.clarin.com/policiales/dias-muertos_0_901110025.html
The rest of your comments are pure nonsense.
Argentina starts a war, Argentina loses said war, Argentina blames everyone else, rewrites history & takes no blame what so ever! hehe :) what a crap country!
Apr 14th, 2013 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#73 Unlike Argentinian based indicators (INDEC ha!) UN indicators are fairly reliable.
Apr 14th, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) The murder rate in the UK is 1.2 per 100,000 people, in Argentina it's closer to 6 (though kudus for being well below Venezuela's 45) [UNODC (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime)]
2) Yes the UK has high incidences of diabetes etc. but it also has 4-5 years longer life expectancy than Argentina [United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs].
3) Yes really, the UK has much lower income inequality than EVERYWHERE in South America, see the Gini index (probably the best metric of income equality, and certainly better than your example). Though it is true that there are some people with lots of money. The UK has a very comprehensive welfare system which provides a single parent of one child (with no job) an income of around £20,000 per year (with Health Care covered by the NHS).
4) The UK has, perhaps, the most diverse cuisine on the planet. To claim that “the food is terrible” is frankly ridiculous and outdated.
5) Yes Spain, and southern Europe, has high unemployment but the UK and Northern Europe does not. The claim of 25% poverty is simply ridiculous even in terms of “relative” poverty even if former Warsaw pact countries are included.
Oh... I also forgot Science in Culture. We are (after the smaller Scandinavian countries and Switzerland) the most scientifically productive nation on the planet (per capita). We have many of the worlds greatest museums and galleries nearly all of which are free for everyone.
But to top it all of you use a personal insult. I've lived in and visited many countries and speak (though not fluently) a few languages, mostly because of my job as a scientist. Finally, the “Kebab” reference is particularly funny as I'm vegetarian (P.S. the UK has some of the best vegetarian food in the world).
66 kelperabout
Apr 14th, 2013 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ouch!!! claws away!!
Someone seems to have miss-placed their sense of humour......
Well, if you can't take a joke, then you shouldn't post on this forum should you.............
Tell you what, re-read that part of my post again and then laugh at it, yeah? have a good laugh and stop being so touchy.
@66 Kelper
Apr 14th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's continued campaign against the Islsnds is totally reprehensible, and of course, I fully sympathise with your position and support you.
One has to be constantly on one's guard here, against snide insinuation and overt propaganda from the Trolls. They often maliciously twist things to their advantage or veil their criticisms in obtuse remarks.
However, the way I read the 'hoe' comments, I think they were meant in jest, and certainly not at your expense.
Taken in context with other comments from “too-old”, he seems to be firmly in favour of the Islanders.
VIVA FALKLANDS!!!
@2 MalvinasArgentinas
Apr 14th, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You are not of a disposition that would even allow you to consider the possibility that reunification does not immediately imply an end, immediate or creeping, total or partial, of your way of life and that which defines you as a people.”
You are blind. An Argentinian takeover of the Falkland Islands would mean an absolute end to that people's way of life. Never mind the part about not even a “creeping” end to it, that is even more absurd, it would be brutally abrupt.
Never mind that you promise you won't change anything.
Have you considered the possibility that you are the incorrect one?
Could it be, that you are the one that wrongly believes?
2 MalvinasArgentinas (#
Apr 14th, 2013 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously have little or no respect for people. To think that your Country living so far in the past that you know very little of the people of the Falkland Islands.
The Falkland Is internally self sufficient in every way except defence and that is only required because a corrupt Argentina has it’s eyes on our homeland.
You say it is not our homeland but hang on a minute there. Was it not the British that discovered these lands in 1592 . Where was Argentina at that time , Oh sorry you did not exist. But we must never forget how your Country came into existence should we. Remember when South America was a free country. No didn’t think you would because youv’e been educated to believe otherwise.
Give me one solid good reason that does not include territorial disputes why we Falkland islanders should become a part of your society. Britain has never lied to us they have allowed us to go forward as we wish. Called Freedom to choose.
Yes Oil is now the biggest news since Argentina started to lay claim to our homeland. For years Argentina showed very little interest in our Homeland until there was a change in dictators and then we were the hot topic. Do you know why that was 2 MalvinasArgentinas (# . It was because your dictators systematically suppressed the argentine people to the point they rebelled and to divert attention from this rebellion The Junta decided to invade the Falkland islands . YOU forgot one thing. There was a very strong minded leader in the Uk who said that she would never allow thugs to destroy a people way of life . The only mistake that this Iron Lady made after the recovery of the Islands was not going all the way into Argentina and removing the dictators once and for all.
Years of deception of the truth from it’s people has allowed these creeps to continue to control them. They learned nothing from past errors and will continue to make utter fools of themselves. Now tell me that we should be a part of this rat
One finds it interesting that since Maggie’s death,
Apr 14th, 2013 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina HAS been rather quiet,
Mr Tinman has in retrospect lost his tongue
CFK
Seems to have retreated into that mysterious room [ 101]
The been heard raging at pictures of Maggie,
[why after everything I have done, is she more popular than I am ]
But still very quiet,
Perhaps some of her dedicated loyal indoctrinated bloggers could tell us why,
Their glorious leader is very quiet,
We will keep our ears open for any replies..lol.
.
Well perhaps we should give them some credit for not using Mrs Ts death as a platform (so far at least).
Apr 14th, 2013 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(76) inthegutter
Apr 14th, 2013 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder...............
Is it customary in the “Anglo” Scientific Community you represent on these pages to believe that the Scandinavian Countries are smaller than the UK?
A bit `“Anglocentric”, don't you think?
On another forum DanyBerger says he thinks he should start learning Spanish...... START?
Apr 14th, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here he makes out he feels safe walking the streets of BsAs at 4, 5 or 6 in the morning. 6? Start of the work day for many? Pfffft
Wow people really need to get their online personas straight.
Stevie disappears and Nostrils turns up.
DanyBerger's back and so is British Kirchenerist at the same time.
Think has disappeared and so has Doveoverdover and so has Sussie.
Hmmmmm
Paraphrasing Mark Twain.....
Apr 14th, 2013 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reports of my disappearance are greatly exaggerated.....
Article something old, but ...
Apr 14th, 2013 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Distant colonies are a post-imperial anachronism.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/25/falklands-britains-expensive-nuisance
@ 86
Apr 14th, 2013 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thursday 25 February 2010 20.30 GMT
Stale as your underpants José Malvinero
Plagiarising Sr Think.....
Apr 14th, 2013 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reports of my disappearance are greatly exaggerated.....
@88
Apr 14th, 2013 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yawn X 2.
er, I mean X 1
To paraphrase C&C Music Factory:
Apr 14th, 2013 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some things don't even make you go hmm!
@Anglotino
Apr 14th, 2013 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Heh heh,
'Think', a career Troll, and he's as subtle as a whore on a school bus!!
39 Devolverislas
Apr 14th, 2013 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Resolutions cannot define, nor override Charter provisions as it is ultra vires in law (beyond one's legal power or authority). Article 1 sub. 2. is quite clear “To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;”
@Troy
Apr 15th, 2013 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hahaha just waiting for Sussie now! The only country these antics reflect on is Argentina. I'm quite happy to let them.
Oh by the way, anyone pick up any news out of the US in the past hour? Something about Argentina and Australia..... where's Nostrils when I need him?
Toby's in the family Bunker - shortages in Mendoza, I expect, and it is no longer safe to go down the local Havanna for a dulce de Leche and use the Wi-Fi
Apr 15th, 2013 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Surely Nostrils isn't using wifi, that's an Australian invention. How very unautarkic of him.
Apr 15th, 2013 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure they developed it independently,
Apr 15th, 2013 - 04:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0and it is better than ours. :-)
What is it that he is has missed as he is offline?
Is Argentina claiming Tasmania, now?
What about “Territorial Integrity” of Tasmania to the coast of Austrslia??
Aren't they on the same continental shelf??
I'm confused???
We need Toby. He's seen the whole world by TV or Internet - he must know!!!
Is the power out in Mendoza??
Actually considering the amount of regular posters, whether claiming to live in Argentina or elsewhere, and their absence at the same time; I would say that somewhere in Argentina, a La Campora office either forgot to pay the electricity bill...... or perhaps someone's house has been underwater.
Apr 15th, 2013 - 04:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0When did the floods hit BsAs?
Time to data mine!
@Leiard
Apr 15th, 2013 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0In this article typical of yellow Clarin Miente says “56 deaths in 100 days” right?
That means and average of 0.56 deaths.
204,4 in a whole year among a population of 17m people.
Among this numbers are people that got killed by domestic violence as cases are reported as violent crimes.
Now lets see in US in 2011 where 12000 people killed just by firearms.
In UK 1300 in total violent crime and just 59 by firearms.
Ok you can claim that UK has a low rate of people being killed by guns but the tricky thing is that in UK guns are virtually banned you cannot go like in Argentina or US to an Arm shop and by freely a gun.
But you have the highest rate of knife killing in fact we know in Europe UK as the capitol of the knife.
And also UK is in the top of the most violent countries and also crime with highest crime rate in western world including Argentina, Uruguay, even over some countries in Africa.
Now lets do simple math UK murdering rate is 1.49/100.000h.
That would be 14.9 deaths per million h right?
Multiply for the same population of Buenos Aires would be 17*14.9=253,3 Oops!
So UK without having free access to firearms like US or Argentina has more killing than Argentina what makes UK a really more dangerous places to live that violent Buenos Aires.
And you cannot compare London for example with Buenos Aires because the last is very huge and with far more concentrate population.
1-UK 1.158.957 crimes 2.034/100k
2-Austria 133.546 crimes 1.677/100k
3-S.Africa 732.121 crimes 1.609/100k
4-Sweeden 108.004 crimes 1.123/100k
5-Belgium 107.885 crimes 1.006/100k
6-Canada 306.559 crimes 935/100k
7-Finland 41.664 crimes 738/100k
8-Netherlands 111.888 Crimes 676/100k
9-Lunxemburg 3.233 crimes 564/100k
10-France 324.765 crimes 504/100k
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
And UK murdering rate is not 1.2 as
Former president of Argentina Carlos Menem has accepted the knighthood proposed in Margaret Thatcher's will . Menem introduced neo liberal economic policies and wholesale privatisation to Argentina in the late 80's and 90's . Argentines were introduced to the rigours and benefits of hard work and enetrprise and the country prospered . The successive Kirchner administrations since 2003 governments have sought to undo his reforms and plunge the country back into economic darkness and the opposition are desperately seeking a spanish version of “ Ding Dong the Witch is dead ” to play in anticipation of Cristina's downfall , which is imminent without Chavez around to bankroll her .
Apr 15th, 2013 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0#98 where to start...
Apr 15th, 2013 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0“56 deaths in 100 days” - no idea what your source for this is (P.S. BA Metro Area is only ~13 million, NOT 17 million, event BA province is only 15.5 million). Despite what we know about Argentine Government statistics lets see what they say:
Assuming:
http://www.jus.gov.ar/areas-tematicas/estadisticas-en-materia-de-criminalidad.aspx
is a reliable source this suggests the Murder rate is 5.5 for Argentina as a whole and 4.92 for BA (though it is unclear whether this includes only the core city or the wider area) - almost exactly what I previously said from a different (UN) source.
Where as for London, http://www.jus.gov.ar/areas-tematicas/estadisticas-en-materia-de-criminalidad.aspx (which contains many useful references) the Murder rate was at an all time low in London in 2012 at 1.1 (4.5 times lower than BA).
So, what I've demonstrated here is that if you do a bit of decent research you can uncover close to the truth, i.e. the Murder rate in BA (and Argentina) is MUCH higher than London (and the UK).
-------------------------------
Now to violent crime... this is where it gets tricky. Unlike murder statistics on violent crime across the world are very difficult to compare, to the extent it's not worth bothering most of the time (see http://www.jus.gov.ar/areas-tematicas/estadisticas-en-materia-de-criminalidad.aspx By quoting a Daily Fail [Mail] statistic you discredited yourself - the Daily Mail intentionally uses statistics to further its agenda of scaring old people into voting for the conservatives.
A good example of this is rape, Sweden has a reported rape rate (that's difficult to say) 40 times that of Canada while Australia's is 80 times that of Canada. Now, considering the similar social factors in all 3 countries, unless there is something in the water, there is something very inconsistent with rape stats. The answer of course is a combination of factors - in Sweden (where I once lived briefly) reporting of rape is much higher and the definition is much broader.
98 DanyBerger
Apr 15th, 2013 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0The figures that Clarion has produced were for deaths resulting just from robberies and theft.
You say “In this article typical of yellow Clarin Miente”, I thought that Clarin was the largest selling newspaper in Argentina.
There has been an absence of Argentinian government figures on crime since 2009, which would tend to suggest that the figures are worse than those in 2009
Can one of you brainless trolls now explain to us why, apparently, there are more psychiatrists and clinical psychologists per head of population in Argentina than any other country in the world?
Apr 15th, 2013 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0PS Well played Angel Cabrera “El Pato” - he should have won the Masters!
Carnival Cruises are considering naming one of their new ships after the Iron Lady .
Apr 15th, 2013 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Many argentines first ( and only ) experience of luxury cruise ships came thanks to Maggie Thatcher , when defeated argentine soldiers were shipped back to Ushuaia on the Canberra .
Ironically , had the “ Gaucho Rivero ” law been in place at the time , these poor sods would never have been allowed back in to Argentina , and would have had to be tipped overboard and made to swim for it . .
@inthegutter
Apr 15th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who started de debate about Arg murdering rate cite Clarin Miente as a statistic source to make his point.
In that article are mentioned deaths in the whole Buenos Aires including CABA and Province.
The article mentioned a dead in Junin what as far I know it is not part of the metropolitan area.
So the area covered by these 56 deaths in 100 days involves a population bigger than 17m people.
Buenos Aires province: 15 625 084 h. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincia_de_Buenos_Aires
Buenos Aires city (CABA): 2 890 151 h. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincia_de_Buenos_Aires
Total population covered by the article: 18.515.235 h.
Metropolitan area what includes CABA (BA city) and Great BA has 13.176.866
Well mate its funny that you use Clarin Miente as a source of your revealed statistics when its convenient but you don’t like the statistics of your own UK media.
Anyway the murdering rate in UK is higher than in Argentina.
BTW the data of the Daily mail was extracted from “source: Conservatives, EU commission, UN”
You can read that in the right border of the chart.
Anyone can tell you that UK has a lot of violence and it is a dangerous city full of gangsters and drug dealers.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincia_de_Buenos_Aires
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provincia_de_Buenos_Aires
Are you sure you know England?
104 DanyBerger
Apr 15th, 2013 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''Anyway the murdering rate in UK is higher than in Argentina''
No it isn't.
The UNODC 2012 study shows the UK with a murder rate of 1.2 per 100,000 people, and Argentina with 5.8.
Are you a liar, or did you just make that up?
104 DanyBerger
Apr 15th, 2013 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the year 2009.
You are wrong !!!!
The murder rate in Argentina in 2009 was 3 times higher than England.
The homicide rate Argentina - 5.45 / 100,000
http://www.jus.gob.ar/areas-tematicas/estadisticas-en-materia-de-criminalidad.aspx
The homicide rate England - 1.43
http://www.jus.gob.ar/areas-tematicas/estadisticas-en-materia-de-criminalidad.aspx
Well Dany its self evident that you dont. I suggest you go for a walk in BA of an evening, quite frightening. You will fall victim to Cartoneros knife in an hour. In Villa Lugano you would last just a few minutes after dark. You have evidently never been there. Your statistics are ludicrous!
Apr 15th, 2013 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#104 I have no idea what you're talking about - at no point did I ever mention the Clarin statistics.
Apr 15th, 2013 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But you have again failed to provide any source for the murder rate in the UK being higher than Argentina which it un-ambiguously is (as pointed out in my posts and that of #106 #105).
Face it, you're blinded by a hatred of the UK probably because you bought into the lie that we stole “Las Malvinas”.
And before you retort about my feelings, I can tell you categorically that I bare no ill feeling towards the Argentine people only their choice of government.
@86
Apr 15th, 2013 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Distant colonies are a post-imperial anachronism.”
Well done Jose, for pointing out Argentina's imperialist intentions, wishing to prolong it's 19th century ideas of colonialism.
Yes, I would agree with you that Buenos Aires is fairly 'distant' from Stanley. And one of the distingushing marks of colonialists (ie how Britain used to be but has since progressed) is that colonialists are not interested in the local population but territory and resources.
As Argentina wants the Falkland Islands to be little more than a distant colony (you can hardly say 300 miles to Terra del Fuego is 'close' and BA is over 1000 miles away) Argentina is itself a 'post-colonial anachronism.
Thanks Jose.
My second paragraph should of course have read:
Apr 15th, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But you have again failed to provide any source for the murder rate in the UK being higher than Argentina - which it un-ambiguously ISN'T (as pointed out in my posts and that of #106 #105).
Hi Danny
Apr 15th, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The homicide figures for England and Wales 2011/2012
550 (of which 39 were caused by a gun / firearm)
the population of England and Wales was 56.1 million for the period 2011/2012
FAREWELL TO MARGARET THATCHER
Apr 15th, 2013 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who would have thought in eighty two
this lady would come to rescue me and you.
The Argentines wrecked our lives our homes
For all of us it was the darkest times.
What the Argentines have done to you
Margaret Thatcher said we will undo.
We will send a Task force to kick them out
They are the aggressors we have no doubt.
A fighting force of British Pride
Would stand by the Iron Ladies side.
Talking she said was a waste of time
These people are all subjects of mine.
She stood quite firmly in her belief
That Argentina was an aggressive thief.
Seventy four days from start to finish
Her troops took back what was always British.
She then went on to do much more
She left a garrison to protect our shore.
She brought us back from those darkest days
She helped us all in so many ways.
Thirty one years have come and gone
And Margaret Thatcher’s name lives on.
She stood by us in our hour of need
Then made sure we would all succeed .
Finally though the time has come
To thank her for all the things she’s done.
Freedom for the Falklands people
That they will be forever grateful.
Lady Thatcher is now at peace
But in our hearts she takes first place.
We owe so much for what she’s done
We will not forget her now she’s gone.
The Falklands people now say Farewell
To the greatest Lady Who served them well.
Gave them the courage when it was needed
Without your help we would not have succeeded.
R.I.P Mrs T.
@99 what about the 2001 crisis? You know, the biggest financial crisis in our history? CFK is a moron, but don't pretend Menem was any good.
Apr 16th, 2013 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Boys, is you read carefully from where the statistics of Argentina come from you will note that is from the “ministry of justice”.
Apr 16th, 2013 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0So they the 5.8% includes all deaths including deaths in car accident, domestic accidents, people death by police crime prevention, etc.
Do you understand de difference among violent death and homicide?
If I fall from my 1st floor because I was drunk my death will be violent because was not natural.
So if someone found me dead (And I know that most of you will be happy, bloody bastards...) this person sure call the police and gives intervention to the justice to investigate if was an accident of someone pushed me.
Then in the same graphics is explained different Items as “dolosos” and “culposos” for example my brother is cleaning his gun I put my head near by and the pistol is shot by accident. This could be classified as homicide “culposo” and my death of course was violent but not for violence.
BUT UK statisctics are based only on violent crime because they donot includes car accidents, people falling for the first floor, etc. Just victims of violent crime.
Now lets see whole Buenos Aires in 2008 was reported 302.550 crimes including drug procession, drug dealing, robbery, sexual abuse, domestic violence, etc.
UK from you own fake figures reported let’ me see... Ah! here its is 1.158.957
Now let play some math Buenos Aires as a whole 18m = 302.550 crimes
UK 1.158.957/60m*18m= 347.687,1 Oops its higher than dangerous big Buenos Aires.
So according with my statistics you have 45.137,1 more crimes committed among 18m people than the Argies. Or if you prefer you are close to 15% more dangerous place to live than Argentina.
Now do you understand how bad you are?
Not yet? Well EU has classified UK as the most dangerous country in Europe and even the Americans believes that you have more crime than US.
And US it is pretty dangerous.
So let’s say that you are among catania, Napoli, Africa top dangerous places.
#114 The figures for Argentina I quoted are for the intentional homicide rate and not “violent deaths”, so I really don't know what you're talking about.
Apr 16th, 2013 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I mentioned before “violent crime” is ambiguous and the rates are extremely sensitive to the definition and how crime is recorded so it is virtually incomparable across countries. I made this point very clearly with the comparison of rape rates across the world. Even the Daily Fail highlighted this point for all its failings.
Where is the evidence that the EU has classified the UK as the most dangerous country in Europe? Even your own source of information (Daily Fail) made the point our homicide rate is 13th (of 27) in the EU.
Once again you've failed spectacularly to prove anything except your own hatred and ignorance of the UK (I also note you've failed to counter any of my other assertions why the UK and Europe is “better” than South America).
@ inthegutter
Apr 16th, 2013 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are absolutely wrong as yankee boy about how safe is your respective countries.
BTW 2 bombs have exploded in Boston with hundred of victims.
No so safe to live in I guess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIAfyYQzZaM&list=PLtMSwy96r2CZhYJnZoQ8MAl5dwcnQhWdx
Still UK one of the most dangerous and violent places in western world above Argentina and south Africa.
BTW I lived 2 years in England and in other many EU countries so please stop making a fool of yourself I'm European mate.
And yet I've definitively proven using government and UN sources that the homicide rate is MUCH higher in Argentina than the UK. To suggest that South Africa is safer than the UK is frankly ridiculous (the homicide rate alone is 30 times higher than the UK).
Apr 16th, 2013 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Making a fool of myself”, yeah OK, whatever. Nowhere in my comments have I made any kind of personal reference other than you're irrational hatred of the UK. You on the other hand retorted with this gem: “you don’t know other thing and for monolingual barriers which I understand because would be quite difficult for you to get your ration of Kebabs in Spanish in Buenos Aires.” which as I noted is funny mostly because I'm vegetarian.
Anyway... why do you hate the UK so much? Do you really believe Argentina will ever have the Falklands?
#116
Apr 16th, 2013 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK more dangerous than South Africa ?
I can only assume that you have never been there - I have !!
Every house owned by “whites” that I saw had metal security bars on the doors and windows and huge guard dogs roaming the gardens. Notices pinned to the gates warned that armed response teams were routinely patrolling the area.
I travelled extensively on holiday for 5 weeks and on going to St.Lucia from Hermanus I was told DO NOT DRIVE through the homeland. You will probably be killed.
Fly to Durban and pick up another hired car from there.
In Jo'burg we were told do not walk to the shops - take the car even if it is only 100 metres
When we stayed in Vryheid, in Kwa Zulu Natal, the advice was the same. Do not walk anywhere. My host who had lived in SA for 35 years had a pistol in the glove compartment of his car. This was standard issue for all employees of the company he worked for. He had to use this as a threat when he was stopped by groups intent on stealing his station wagon. Even the black employees who traveled were issued with handguns.
I had a flat tire on the way from Durban and before I knew it I had a group of “blacks” approaching me carrying machetes.
I was told by the breakdown service that they did not come closer because they thought I had a gun !
So, the UK is more dangerous than this ?
On our way back to the UK we talked to a couple in their 60's who had lived and worked in Durban for 30 years.
They told us that they were scared to go out their door as gunfire was a regular occurrence. They said that the final straw was when two gangs had a gun fight over their back garden. Machine gun fire had hit their house.
For about a year they had been getting their money out of SA. to their daughter who live in Scotland and had abandoned their house and left to settle here. And you say the UK is more violent than this ?
As for Argentina, I can make no comment except I would not believe any government statistic produced there.
114 DanyBerger
Apr 16th, 2013 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is you that is wrong !!!!!!!!!!
homicidos dolosos (intentional homicide) - 5,45
homicidos culposos en transito (culpable homicides in transit) - 10.37
http://www.jus.gob.ar/media/109968/argentinadolosos2009.pdf
116 DanyBerger
Apr 16th, 2013 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your either a pathetic liar or a pathetic troll.
Comparing the UK unfavourably to South Africa for violent crime is laughable.
The SA murder rate is 30 times that of Britain, it has half a million rapes and sexual assaults per year.
You're not European, 'mate'. If you were, you'd know what a prat you sound.
WHILE SHE WAS IN THE FRONT SHE FORGOT TO KEEP A CHECK ON HER CABINET who were her real enemy and brought her down....
Apr 16th, 2013 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you accusing me to make this up?
Apr 16th, 2013 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you crazy?
Well mates you don't trust your own govt. figures, your local press, US statistics, EU commission, UN and the rest of the world.
UK is the most dangerous place in Western Europe anyone knows that.
With higher crime rate than many countries in Africa including South Africa.
“The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.” UK media
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
“Britain is more violent than South Africa and U.S.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
“The Most Violent Country in Europe: Britain is Also Worse Than South Africa and U.S.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
“Gun-Free UK More Violent than USA”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
@Monty69
Bad news for you Monty I'm European and if you have doubts I will bet all my belongings against yours that my passport and other stuff say
EU. I also have a citizen certificate, ID card, Tax paid forms, health ID card insurance, Even I got one from UK ha ha, do you have one?
Do you have any proving stuff that you have ever worked in EU legally and paying taxes as EU national?
I guess not judging by your complete ignorance about the real Europe.
“The SA murder rate is 30 times that of Britain, it has half a million rapes and sexual assaults per year.”
Are you from South Africa?
The UK media, US media, EU statistics say the contrary.
You only trust your Brit media when only say FI are British?
Quiet convenient, isn't it?
Not even the Americans believe that UK is a safe country and that is to say a lot.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
can we move on now?
No we can't it would seem. For starters, two of your “sources” (and I use the source loosely) are just quoting the same drivel from the Daily Mail. The final source (“exohuman”, whatever the hell that is) is a glorified blog.
Apr 16th, 2013 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I ask again, show me any reliable statistics that indicate anything you've said is even remotely true! Blindly repeating “EU statistics”, “UK media”, “my mate said so cos he was there like”, is not even remotely useful.
I'll reiterate: I have shown, with reliable sources, that the homicide rate in South Africa >> Argentina >> UK. When it comes to “violent crime” and sub-categories thereof it is extremely difficult to obtain a reliable picture because of the different definitions and reporting rate. Any half decent source would make this clear.
And finally, in the spirit of MP as a forum to discuss the Falkland Islands: the Falkland Islands unambiguously do not belong to Argentina.
That's me out, there is no getting through to you.
DanyBerger
Apr 16th, 2013 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pathetic doesn't even cover your abilities mate.
“Well mates you don't trust your own govt. figures, your local press, US statistics, EU commission, UN and the rest of the world.”
And did you source these? Nope. You sourced newspapers and blogs.
Try official sites like the South African Police Services website
www.saps.gov.za
And the UK National Statistics and Office of National Statistics websites
www.statistics.gov.uk
www.oms.gov.uk
So let me quote some figures from:
http://www.saps.gov.za/statistics/reports/crimestats/2012/downloads/crime_statistics_presentation.pdf
http://www.saps.gov.za/statistics/reports/crimestats/2012/downloads/crime_statistics_presentation.pdf
South Africa had a murder rate of 31.9 per 100,000 in 2010/11.
So about 15,950 homicides.
England and Wales had 642 homicides for roughly the same period.
So about 1.15 per 100,000.
So when you claim “The UK media, US media, EU statistics say the contrary” to Monty69's claim that “The SA murder rate is 30 times that of Britain” you are clearly wrong.
Now please, with your limited intelligence level can you tell the difference between the numbers 642 and 15,950?
Too difficult? Thought so.
Here's some more help (I'm always so happy to help special needs). More South Africans are murdered in 15 days than an entire year in England and Wales.
How did you put it again? Oh yeah.... Britain has a “higher crime rate than many countries in Africa including South Africa”.
@122 DanyBerger
Apr 16th, 2013 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say “Bad news for you Monty I'm European and if you have doubts I will bet all my belongings against yours that my passport and other stuff say
EU. I also have a citizen certificate, ID card, Tax paid forms, health ID card insurance, Even I got one from UK ha ha, do you have one?”
Yeah, but! I have three Argentine friends here in the UK - born and bred porteños - all of whom live here as citizens of the European Union. ONLY, because of the “grandfather” clause i.e. at least one of their grandfathers was born in an EU country. Two of them went to St George's College and the other one was at St Andrew's. You are not unique - just an idiot!
122 DanyBerger
Apr 16th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''Bad news for you Monty I'm European and if you have doubts I will bet all my belongings against yours that my passport and other stuff say
EU. I also have a citizen certificate, ID card, Tax paid forms, health ID card insurance, Even I got one from UK ha ha, do you have one?''
and
''Do you have any proving stuff that you have ever worked in EU legally and paying taxes as EU national?
I guess not judging by your complete ignorance about the real Europe.''
Stupid boy. You've picked the wrong person to argue with. I was born and brought up in the UK. I also worked there and paid taxes. I'm not going to tell you my NI number.
Which means I know, as you clearly do not, that no-one who lives in the UK needs a citizen certificate, id card, health insurance card, etc. You can't have one, because no-one does. You're a wretched liar.
I also know, as you do not, that the UK is, for the most part, a nice, safe, civilised place to live. Unless you're a member of a postcode gang in North London, in which case you've chosen a dark and dangerous path.
My statistics come from the UN. If you'd rather believe the Daily Mail, then more fool you. If you'd ever lived in the UK you'd know what sort of people read the Daily Mail
#126
Apr 16th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Slight correction, I still have my ID card issued in 1942.
What is an EU national ? I was not aware that there was such a thing. Has someone taken my British nationality and put this in its place ?
THE OTHER SIDE OF THATCHER'S LEGACY.
Apr 16th, 2013 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In some way the admiration that many islanders feel for thatcher is understandable, however beyond her actions in 1982, its' necesary to have enough memory. It's something that summers didn't show in his opinion, which was obvious due to he's a politician.
It's necesary to remind also about the readley's mission of 1980, and the warns ignored by thatcher in reference to the cuts off that she had made for the defence in the south atlantic.
If thatcher was so interested in defending the islands, she could have sent a permanent huge militar mission to the archipelago, in order to protect the islanders from the terrible abuses that the junta committed in the mainland against our people, and at the same time respect resolution 502, and negotiate with the junta, that decision didn't implicate a war. However when she ordered to sink the belgrano, it was a clear sing that none negotiated solution was posible for her government.
If many of you decide to ignore the previous events to 1982, with the purpose of honouring your baroness, do it, in fact, anybody have right to be mediocre and make a very partial analysis in relation to what happened before the war, like summers did.
On the other hand, it's really despisable to see people celebrating her death in the streets from the u. k.
Nobody's death must be celebrated, actually what should be celebrated is the death thatcher's ideas, which provoked poverty, economic concentration on behalf of the rich people, the relevancy of financial activities in detriment of the industrial development etc etc.
However, thatcher's ideas are still very present no just in the u. k., but in all over the world, the day that her ideas die, it will be a good oportunity to celebrate, and a good chance to make a better world.
Her ideas are one of the biggest remoras that the world still suffers since the times of the thatcher-reagan alliance, and it's one of the main causes of the actual deep crisis.
128 axel arg
Apr 16th, 2013 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You really are a poor confused mixed up soul, aren't you.
Firstly you blame the invasion of 1982 on the British, because they didn't build a huge military base on the Falklands on the off chance that some crackpots 100s of miles away might invade.
Then you say that Britain started the war by sinking the Belgrano, when it should have negotiated, thereby not respecting resolution 502.
Unbelievable, and a complete crock.
Where was Argentina's respect for the resolution when it invaded? And what was the Belgrano even doing there? As I recall, there was a much more recent resolution telling Argentina to withdraw. You made the choice for war when you invaded, not Britain.
There was no choice for Thatcher (and I don't agree with everything she did). In this case she was right; you don't negotiate with criminals.
I have no time at all for this self- righteous whiney nonsense. With you, it always has to be someone else's fault. If Argentina had won, you'd be celebrating still for all you're worth. You certainly wouldn't be trying to disown the Junta, like it was something that came from somewhere else. No, you're not sorry you did it, only sorry that you lost. Too bad.
Well said Monty
Apr 16th, 2013 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You don' t negotiate with criminals”
May I add, “ you can't reason with children”!
Axel, you are a pouting child!!
@inthegutter
Apr 17th, 2013 - 05:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Telegraph
UK is violent crime capital of Europe
The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to new research.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
BBC
Scotland has been named the most violent country in the developed world by a United Nations report.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
As you can see there is nothing new about Britain to be the shitty hole of Europe since long time ago.
UK has 'worst quality of life in Europe'
“As a result, more than one in 10 Britons (12%) said they are “seriously considering” emigrating, with “broken society” the biggest concern for 59% of those questioned, followed by the cost of living (49%), and crime and violence (47%). Just 5% of those questioned are happy in the UK.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
Well seems that even Britons know that UK is a 3er world hole but you mates.
@Anglotino
I have never trusted UK statistics as are all fake and always under report bad indicators like Italy, Greece, etc.
@Gordo1
And your point is?
@Monty69
You said that I’m not European and I said I was European and I was not born in UK else Germany and also lived in Italy, Spain and UK.
So as Mr. Think® always says right you are egocentric people and see everything from your little Belly Button. Germany has ID card, France, Italy, Spain, etc. And also “we Europeans” have certificates of nationality so Bundesverwaltungsamt can check how you have obtained your German Citizen, status and if it is still valid as you can see here the application in English.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
And you call me a liar when you have no idea of what your own country requires to Germans to establish they nationality?
Amazing!
Ah... Dany, you really just don't get it do you. “Violent crime”, with the exception of homicide, can not be easily compared between countries. Here is a nice UN picture explaining this: http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/Compiling-and-comparing-International-Crime-Statistics.html
Apr 17th, 2013 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see you've stopped banging on about your ludicrous claims about the homicide rate.
Anyway, I'm still intrigued, why do you care so much about the Falklands?
MONTY69. TROY TOMPEST.
Apr 17th, 2013 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't negotiate with criminals.
This phrase is really amazing, and it shows your usuall lack of intellectaul honesty.
If you think that your so loved baroness dind't have to negotiate with a criminal regimen like the argentine dictatorship, then what do you think about the readley's mission of 1980?, why do you think she ignored the warns that i mentioned in my comment?.
On the other hand, i have never supported the war, although i was a baby in 1982, due to i'm 31 years old, i have always been very critic of the invasion of 1982, and i have expressed it in many of my usuall comments. The war is something that should have never happened.
Anyway, beyond my rejection to the war, it doens't change the facts, if both nations were called to negotiate by mean resolution 502, it should have been respected by both countries, previouslly to the sinking of the belgrano, there were conversations, however when thatcher ordered to sink the belgrano, she wanted to show that she wasn't interested in a negotiated solution, in fact, after her ordered, it was asked to her a reconfirmation of that decision. What she wanted was a militar victory, because only a victory would help her to save her misserable and unpopular government.
I have never blamed the u. k only, because i'm not neather stupid nor hypocrite, i am just telling that both nations didn't act correctly. Argentina should have never invaded the islands, and the u. k. should have continued with the negotiations, and find a solution, in order to avoid a war.
What i really wanted to express in my comment 128 is that in 1982, neather the criminal junta which ruled argentina in 1982, nor your so loved baroness didn't give a shit about the islands. The war of 1982 is the result of mediocre and criminal politicians who used this cause with the purpose of saving their politic ambitions, and objetive facts which happened before 1982 show what i think, sorry if many of you don't want to see it.
@133
Apr 17th, 2013 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you keep ignoring the section in resolution 502 that ”Demands an immediate withdrawal of all Argentine forces from the Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas)”
If Argentina had withdrawn its army there wood have been no war,
the sinking of the Belgrano would not have happened and no lives would have been lost.
Determining that there exists a breach of the peace in the region of the Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas),
1. Demands an immediate cessation of hostilities;
2. Demands an immediate withdrawal of all Argentine forces from the Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas);
3. Calls on the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom to seek a diplomatic solution to their differences and to respect fully the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations
#133 I am no fan of Thatcher, in fact I positively appall the effect she had on the UK. However I nevertheless believe her conduct during the Falklands Conflict was correct.
Apr 17th, 2013 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- The sinking of the Belgrano was almost a month after resolution 502. During this time Argentina had made no efforts to adhere to 502 by refusing to withdraw. This left the UK open to pursue an armed response under article 51.
- The Belgrano was a clear and imminent threat to British shipping.
- With regards to the peace plan proposed by the President of Peru, this had not been received by the British government. Subsequently this plan was accepted by the UK government but rejected by Argentina.
This is not to say however that I felt she was doing for the sake of the islanders. I suspect she was more motivated by trying to maintain Britain's standing.
AGENT999. INTHEGUTTER.
Apr 18th, 2013 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect the opinions of you both, but i don't agree on them.
I know perfectly what resolution 502 said, despite i have always rejected the invasion of 1982, i can't omit that the junta was disposed to negotiate with the u. k., in fact, it was disposed to discuss about the three flags proposal.
If before the sinking of the belgrano there were conversations, it was unnecesary to sink that ship, i respect if the u. k. considered the belgrano like a threat, however you all are smart enough in order to realize that if both nations were having conversations in order to try to solve the conflict, it's injustifiable to sink a ship which was sealing away from the islands, and out of the exclution zone.
The only one reason to take such a repudiable decision was thatcher's politic ambition, your so loved baroness wasn't idiot, and she knew perfectly that just a militar victory would save her misserable and pathetic government.
In reference to the sinking of the belgrano, i have always thought it was a war crime, because of the reasons i mentioned before, however i could know last year that in the end of april of 1982, thatcher's govt. had decided to change the rules, and notified the pertinent authorities about it, so, since that moment i have started to have doubts about wether the sinking of the belgrano can be considered like a war crime.
Anway, beyond this controversy, we can't ignore that the only one reason why thatcher took that decision, was to show that the solution for the malvinas-falkland conflict, didn't have to be a negotiated solution, but a militar victory, and i already explained why i think it.
As i said before, sorry if you and all the other thatcherists can't see it.
#136 As I mentioned I am certainly no Thatcherite. Having been raised in a decimated mining village I have very little love for her.
Apr 18th, 2013 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're wrong about the desire for peace. As I mentioned previously the UK government accepted in principle the idea of peace talks, it was the Argentine government that did not. The Argentine government never showed any hint of desire to negotiate other than on terms favourable to itself (i.e. taking sovereignty of the islands); this pre-condition was simply unacceptable.
“changed the rules” - herein lies another misunderstanding about the nature of the exclusion zone; the exclusion zone was *never* about demarcating the arena of conflict and all sides knew this (the exclusion zone has no precedence in law). Do you really think we would let ships station themselves just outside the zone and fire anti-ship/weapons with impunity? The zone was for the sake of neutral shipping making it clear that any ship within the zone would be considered belligerent.
Finally, I honestly believe that Thatcher ordered the Belgrano sunk because it was a threat to our forces. Had the Belgrano not been sunk the loss of British lives would have been far greater. It's destruction was a sad but necessary consequence of Argentina's belligerence and expansionist agenda. Despite Argentina's transition to democracy neither of these traits have gone away. I'm just glad you're so terrified of your armed forces you'd never buy them any new toys.
@136
Apr 20th, 2013 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0“In reference to the sinking of the belgrano, i have always thought it was a war crime,”
Therefore the sinking of HMS Sheffield, HMS Coventry, HMS Antelope, THE UNARMED Atlantic Conveyor and HMS Ardent were ALSO war crimes.
That's UK war crime=1 Argentina's war crimes=5
Using of napalm by Argentina -OK?= NO
Planting UNMARKED MINEFIELDS OK?=NO
Pointing loaded guns to unarmed Falkland Islanders heads OK? =NO
It is Argentina that held the monopoly of war crimes in the 1982 Falklands war and you seem to forget that many of Belgrano's sailors would have been saved if their accompanying warships had picked up survivors-typical Argentine reaction= Blame Everyone Else For Their Own Mistakes /Faults.
The Argentines were warned on April 25th (through the UN and internationally) that any ship thought likely to cause a threat to the task force ANYWHERE in the South Atlantic would be liable to attack. the warning was issued in time for the Belgrano to stay in port.
Your amateur Junta ignored the OBVIOUS signals ie aHUGE UK task force sailing from the UK.
That is down to the ABSOLUTE INCOMPETENCE of your Junta. They and they alone are responsibilble for ALL Argentine deaths, and Galteiri and co should have been executed for their crimes , not merely imprisoned.
te fact that Argentina did not believe the British would fight is not the UK's fault, it is syptomatic of the always arrogant Argentines inability to believe anybody is better than them. It works in South America, not with the UK armed forces.
INTEGHUTTER. PETE BOG.
Apr 20th, 2013 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems you didn't interpret correctly what i said in my comment 136 in relation to the sinking of the belgrano.
I said that since last year i have started to have doubts about wether it can be considered like a war crime, due to i could know one year ago that thatcher's govt. had decided to change the roles in the end of april, and notified the pertinents authorites about that new decision.
On the other hand, there was never any serious investigaton by justice in order to determine wether the sinking of the belgrano was a war crime.
I respect your opinions but i don't agree on what you both think, beyond the controversy of the belgrano, if thatcher was so interested in defending the islands, she could have sent a huge militar mission to the islands, in order to protect the islanders from the terrible abuses that the junta committed in the mainland against our people, however taking that decision dind't implicate a war.
In the case of the argentine militars, despite their imbecility, they were disposed to negotiate with the u. k., it's not true that they didn't want to ceade in reference to the sovereignty, actually it was your thatcher the one who didn't want to talk about sovereignty, in some way, it was understandable but absolutly hypocrite, because if she really cared about the wishes of the islanders, as she started to emphasize after the war, she would never send nicolas readley to the archipelago and to buenos aires, in order to discuss about a solution for this conflict, beside, she would never ignored the warns, in reference to the cuts off that her administration had determined for the defense in the south atlantic.
As i said before, she wasn't an idiot like the argentine militars, and she knew that a negotiated solution wasn't convenient for her, because it wasn't going to help her to save her misserable government.
She just used hypocritically this cause like the militars did, but they lost.
Try reading “the Official History of the Falklands Campaign, Volume 11, War and Diplomacy by Sir Laurence Freedman.
Apr 22nd, 2013 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I recommend that you read this book for an account of the campaign from British records made at the time.
The Belgrano incident is covered in full including a political enquiry in the UK Parliament. Many of her political opponents tried to implicate political motives to the Belgrano sinking but she was exonerated in this respect.
On 1 May 1982, Admiral Juan Lombardo ordered all Argentine naval units to seek out the British task force around the Falklands and launch a “massive attack” the following day.
The Belgrano, which was outside the exclusion zone to the north, was ordered south.
Lombardo’s signal was intercepted by British Intelligence.
You may also be interested to know - I did not know this fact until I read this report - that on 1 May an Argentine sub. fired a torpedo at a British ship and missed and an abortive air attack with an Exocet missile was made and also failed.
Could this have been regarded as a”war crime“ if it had succeeded ?
The Belgrano was sunk on the 2 May ”as a danger to the British fleet ” on the recommendations of Admiral Sir Terence Lewin.
So it would appear that by attacking first, the Argentines were not really interested in a negotiated solution as they fired on the British fleet first.
There is nothing else to add to this - you either accept it or reject it as your conscience dictates.
It appears to me that the Belgrano affair is so deep in Argentine folk legend that it would be too painful to admit that maybe you have the wrong version of events and that it would be like questioning Holy Writ. The Argentine version is more palatable to your population than the facts.
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