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Fitch trims UK top credit rating on weaker economy and fiscal outlook

Saturday, April 20th 2013 - 08:56 UTC
Full article 48 comments

Britain's credit standing took a further blow when Fitch Ratings became the second major international agency to strip the country of its top-notch credit rating. The move is an embarrassment for the Conservative-led government which promised to protect the country's rating when it took power in 2010, and will heighten the debate about whether austerity is still the right approach. Read full article

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  • Trunce

    Balls is certifiable.

    Has he forgotten the note left by Labour Chief Secretary to the Treasury Byrne, to his successor stating -“ Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left.”

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    AA+ isn't too bad considering the level of problems we are dealing with. Things could be worse, we could be B- Negative like Argentina, yet I'm sure they will be on here very soon crowing about the 'old hags' economic miracle.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Trunce

    @2 Britworker

    “AA+ isn't too bad considering the level of problems we are dealing with.”

    Agreed. The final para conveys important message-

    “Nonetheless, gilt prices remain near record highs, and France and the United States have both been stripped of their triple-A rating by more than one agency without any major loss of investor confidence.”

    A reputation for paying debts, and not expropriating investors assets is important.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/britain-pays-off-final-instalment-of-us-loan--after-61-years-430118.html

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    “This is a stark reminder that the UK cannot simply run away from its problems, or refuse to deal with a legacy of debt built up over a decade,” a spokesman said.”

    Why not? It's what argieland does! But, seriously, this demonstrates how a responsible nation behaves. It doesn't fraudulently steal money it has borrowed by refusing to repay more than risible amounts. It doesn't steal other people's assets. It doesn't conduct economic warfare against small countries in an attempt to steal their land. It acts with honour. A word argieland may have heard of. Argieland just doesn't understand what it means.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • agent999

    1 Trunce

    People have short memories when it suits them.

    I do love the critics who forget that it took Labour 13 years to ruin the country and expect Cameron and co. to fix the mess overnight.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brazilian

    It must be Argentina's fault!

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    ooopppps!! Great Britain is getting poorer!!

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Someone explain to Aussie/Sussie and the other fake names how this works as he clearly doesn't understand the poor lad.

    Still this is not a surprise and won't change anything.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    EDWIN PORKBALLS

    pot-kettle-black-no shit,

    ya had 13 years and fxcked it up, so please dont condemm what you did your selves,

    if you idiots spent more time running great britain for the british people,

    instead of lining your own pockets and years taking apart what others have done,
    we would not be in this mess,
    so soddy offy.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    One starts to think that basic economic rules no longer apply . The UK should restudy it's current policies .

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    All it takes is money and investment,
    Money and investment
    ,,,,,,,,,,
    we invest in Europe and give our money to anyone that asks.

    Simple=
    Invest in Britain, give our people the billions they give to others,
    Problem solved,
    ,,,,,,,,
    Still,
    Why is something so simple,
    So bloody hard for a politician to understand..

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Briton
    You mean like investing in European bombs and giving them to Iraq?

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    European bombs ,
    Iraq?
    so its there fault then.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    invest in britain, its that simple
    europe can either sink, or locate to argentina,
    bestes mates we think.lol.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    12 Stevie again ! What Briton wrote makes sense . Pray tell me what it has to do with bombs for Iraq ? While we are about it we should consider drastically cutting foreign aid . Better spent on our Armed Forces . Not only a possible problem with the Falkland's but also North Korea , Iran and , who knows , Russia again ! Sorry , I forgot that Iran is a staunch ally of Argentina , Venezuela and other strong democracies !

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @12
    Would you like to share with us all Uruguays credit rating? The last I heard you were having a few little problems with inflation.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Stevie is an Argentine ghosting as an Uruguayan, embarrassed to admit he is Argentine, but then again it can be his paid role as a la campora troll to show that other nations support Argentine. But Uruguay....really what a choice........Argentina's anus according to most Argentines......lol.

    Apr 20th, 2013 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    14
    But of course, the taxes are used to send the troops and pay for the war. The revenues, reconstruction contracts, weapon sales and most importantly, oil contracts, are later divided between the big private companies.

    15
    And Uruguays credit rating would explain what exactly?

    16
    If you want to insult Uruguay be a man and do it directly. Don't hide behind Argentina.

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 03:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Fido Dido

    The zombiebanks in the UK want more money and demand more austerity. Meanwhile the rest of the world already knows that the credit rating of the UK (AA-) is bogus, just as the AAA of my country, Holland. BTW, who should you take those rating agencies serious.

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 04:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    O! Poor Britons

    UK team seem to don’t have any idea in the mess UK it is and how things will be even worst in the near future.

    The funny thing is that they like to lecture others in economy matters when they have been living in fantasyland for more than 20 years just creating debt.

    Currently UK has to pay close to USD 72bn just in interest to serves its public debt.
    And for 2014 despite all the cuts the government is planing to borrow another USD190 billion to cover de budgetary deficit.

    In the near future debt servicing payments will become the 3er item on the list of spending for the UK govt. and the debt is not being reduced on the contrary keeps growing.

    And we are talking only about public debt denominated in pounds no banking bailouts liabilities or external debt are included on it.

    Meanwhile anaemic economy in UK has no sign to improve in near future otherwise it is worsening.

    Seems UK is riding the bicycle by paying debt with more debt what cannot be sustained in the time.

    IMF warns UK to slow cuts
    IMF steps up call for Osborne to slow down austerity plans as row escalates.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10007727/IMF-steps-up-call-for-Osborne-to-slow-down-austerity-plans-as-row-escalates.html

    Are we seeing a near collapse of UK economy Iceland, Greece, Spain, etc style?

    Of course it is UK is trapped in between stagnation a debt crisis.

    And the idiot think they know about economy when their economy is collapsing.

    It is not funny?

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    DanyBerger

    The ones to pay the price are the working class. Just like in Spain, in Ireland, in Portugal, in Italy, in Greece.

    I don't think it's that funny.

    The oligarchy will not shed a tear, and there is a huge possibility they do find it quite amusing.

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Schneckster

    Wow! I didn't think I'd ever say this, but I actually agree with some of what Stevie just said, and even a tiny amount of Danyberger's last utterance!

    The UK isn't like Spain, Portugal or Ireland for two reasons: 1) we're a far bigger economy with a lot of debts owed to us; and 2) we're not in the Euro so we have room to adjust the economy to help stay out of trouble. The PIIGS countries are pegged to Germany's economy which is why they are in the trouble they are in.

    And Stevie, yes the average taxpayer will pay, not just the working class. The bank bailouts shifted investor losses onto the public purse, i.e., the taxpayer. It isn't just the UK, though. The whole of the EU did the same thing as did the US and several other G7, G8 and G20 countries.

    But Danyberger's idea the UK economy is about to collapse are fanciful. Osborne is still borrowing too much, and Dany is right that this is both wrong and unsustainable. But as Osborne is cutting the deficit, the borrowing will slow (it better! There are elections approaching!). His main mistake is not giving small business the room to operate. If they do not grow, the economy does not grow. Big business isn't the growth engine of an economy, its the small businesses that are.

    At least, however, Balls is not in control. Anyone who remembers the 1970's will know that the UK was an economic basket case. Balls would have us back there as he has no idea whatsoever. And I wouldn't trust the IMF's opinion at all... they're like Kirchener, out for themselves. The cuts are more than needed. The govt is spending too much on waste. The cuts are right, though sometimes misplaced.

    And Stevie one last thing I agree with you about - it isn't funny, whether it's the UK or Argentina, enemy or friend.

    If only we had real world people in charge and not career politicians. We wouldn't be in this mess, then.

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    I do enjoy Danny's alternative reality posts.

    This is the same person that wants to launch a nuclear weapon at the Falkland Island's and thinks the UK has no armed forces. Danny also believes the Argentinian economy is in better shape than the British!

    Is this the collapse of the UK Danny poses, well only in your little head Danny, meanwhile back in the real world we are still the 6th largest economy in the world, number 1 financial centre of the world and still hold a very high credit rating.

    Does the UK have problems? Yes, are they as Danny describes? Not in a million years.

    Just another Danny fantasy that plainly wont come true but alas enjoy your dreaming even if thats all it ever will be.

    Someone needs to learn the basics of economics. I actually wonder if they teach the subject in Argentina or if they do teach a 'danny' version of economics which would go someway to explaining why Argentina has possibly one of the worst economic records of any country in the world.

    Getting lecture on economics by an Argentine is like getting lectured on human rights by Hilter! LOL

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    it is getting so bad..That now the UK government has come up with the ONE BEDROOM TAX..what´s next THE ONE LOO TAX??!!

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Ah another troll that doesn't understand what he's talking about.

    Try understanding the subject and then come back and make some sense!

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    21
    The 'price' isn't just about amount of money paid. It's a much about life quality. Remove from the rich what they can spare will get them upset.
    Remove from the working class what they can't, and they will go hungry.

    Europe has bigger issues than those your present. They are experiencing an outflow of production companies like never before. In their search for profit, they forgot about all welfare but their own and today they pursue cheap labour and low expenses. Even within Europe the problem is visible. Never before has there been so many professionals from the eastern EU countries practising their skills in the western ones, far too many times at a salary that widely affects the local employment. Housing prices are settling at a level that by no means can be justified regarding the youth unemployment. Population growth is below the rate of sustainable and all these above named issues makes it even harder to have a family.
    This in a population that is getting older and older. These people will soon be demanding pensions in a wider scale and the ones to pay for it is that unemployed youth that is struggeling to even find a home and build their nest.
    The external debt is counted in Trillions and increasing every year, to sustain the quality of life.

    I don't see the fun in this mess that neo-liberalism has created.
    Local production ensures employment in every populated area.
    Call it protectionism if you may, but I will not say sorry for protecting everybody's right to live a decent life.

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Stevie

    If you would care to read my post again you will notice that the “it is not funny” refers to the idiots posting here. I mean that fact that they want to lecture economy to others when they own economy is in the verge of collapse.

    Noting to do with your wrong interpretation.

    @Schneckster

    The only thing different in between Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Greece, etc are the PIIGGS accents that use to say oink oink!

    The cuts in the UK economy come too late and you can see that by the amount of current borrowing USD190 billions.

    The UK debt went from USD500 billions to USD 2.241 trillions for the current year officially recognised.

    “But Danyberger's idea the UK economy is about to collapse are fanciful”

    The Institute of Economic Affairs in Britain estimates that the total public debt of UK govt is USD 7.615 trillions.

    Of course this is only public debt that doesn’t include external debt what is keeping apart in another public account.

    So the percentage of public debt denominated just only in Pounds will represent 333% of UKs GDP.
    The figure also includes the debt incurred by UK to save the banks, fellow coffers and all liabilities.

    http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/upldbook516pdf.pdf

    Trouble to get your cookies?
    http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/upldbook516pdf.pdf

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Ah more comical economic lessons from Mr Fantasy.

    So you are quoting a think tank with varying estimates. It's also worth pointing out the figure is all debt not just government debt and most importantly a lot of the debt is owed to the UK and is long term but hey Danny lets not let that get in the way of your fantasy eh?

    It's also amazing that nobody who is educated in economics seems as worried about this as Danny.

    The only idiot here is the idiotic Argentine poster trying to suggest that the UK is on the verge of collapse whilst the educated world holds a completely different opinion. Its about as truthful as the Argentine claim on the Falkland's islands LOL

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • agent999

    @27
    or as ridiculous as the INDEC rate of inflation in Argentina!

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    They give us advice,
    Yet fail to head their very own,

    The world has problems, and there are many ways to solve it or make it worse,

    All im saying is,
    Billions of our money is given to others whilst we suffer,
    And that’s not fair,

    We do have the money and we can re-grow and get out of debt,
    If only we a decent government to do it,
    But time will tell,

    Laughing at others who suffer the price of cuts is not funny when you consider the wealthy seem to get richer, and the government either does nothing, or turns a blind eye,
    [ GAS][ELECTRIC][WATER] prices are one example we brits know only to well.
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Invest in Britain,
    British taxes for British industry, surely that’s the way to go.
    Just saying..

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mastershakejb

    @ 2 Britworker

    ARGENTINA'S CREDIT RATING IS NOT BB-
    IT IS CC, ACCORDING TO FITCH, WHICH IS MUCH WORSE

    CHINA'S DAGONG CREDIT RATING AGENCY HAS ARGENTINA LISTED AS CCC, WITH A NEGATIVE OUTLOOK. ARGENTINA HAS NO FRIENDS, NOT EVEN IN CHINA

    Apr 21st, 2013 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Xect

    I said many times before when not even the most critic economist about UK say a word about UK could lose it AAA rating that that will go to happen.

    Most of you laugh and keep repeating that this will never happen, that I was an Idiot, etc.

    Time gives me the reason so Dany 1 Idiots 0

    I told you many times that the UK govt doesn’t report the entire debt and you deny and laugh.

    Well now UK govt. is starting to clarify some numbers and the debt (just public or internal debt) that is denominated in local currency (pounds) is bigger than reported and expected.
    So UK govt. now admits that the public debt is USD 2.241 trillions including borrowing to cover the deficit for 20013.

    That is more than 90% of its GDP.

    So Dany 2 idiots still 0

    But the bad news as I said many times don’t end there, because UK had incurred in other liabilities like the bailouts to save the banks and liabilities.

    UK has also to pay pension and compensation due to the restructuring of the public sector. This is also debt denominated in local currency (pounds) so lets say “public debt” but also the every year people from the public sector retires and the UK govt. will have to pay. So this more debt that have to be estimated and if the govt. has no the money (sure it has not) has to borrow even more increasing even more the debt.

    But this is only the internal debt or the public debt that normally is displayed in charters as a % of GDP.

    But what about the external debt?

    Current UK external debt is close to 10 trillions, yes 10 trillions part is owed by privates and the govt.
    And to have an idea of how bad it is the ED has increased from US$ 8.4 trillions in January 2010 to US$ 10 trillions in 2013.

    Can you see with the speed UK external debt keeps growing?

    So I’m patient and will wait to get my Dany 3 Idiots 0 when KaMoron Like RajaHoy from Spain had to announces that Britain gone burst and belly up.

    @mastershakejb

    When you don’t need to borrow your credit rating is irrelevant.

    Apr 22nd, 2013 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • agent999

    @31 Dany

    Your statement “When you don’t need to borrow your credit rating is irrelevant.” show how little you understand.

    Apr 22nd, 2013 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Danny please show me where I said the UK wouldn't lose its AAA+ rating? Its been said for a great deal of time its going to happen due to tough economic conditions in Europe. So lets say Danny 0 'idiot's' 0.

    As for UK government borrowing, is it high? Yes, is it manageable? Yes. It's also worth pointing out that not only is a great deal very long term but the UK government is also owed a great deal. So again Danny 0 'idiot's' 0

    The banks are actually a UK asset and when the markets recover will be sold for a lot so that is good news and not the bad news you may think which is understandable since you have the economic depth of a shallow puddle.

    So your 3-0 result is at most 0-0 and your predictions are based on openly discussed opinions that have been out there for a whole lot longer than you've been saying them, so essentially in the points you've raised regarding credit ratings are nothing more than parroting old news.

    As for the UK going belly up, well lets hold you to that because quite clearly its not going to happen.

    And stating 'When you don’t need to borrow your credit rating is irrelevant.' is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

    Now shall we talk about the impending Argentine default? Because unlike your UK fantasy we all know that is going to happen which is why insuring Argentine money against credit default is the most expensive in the world!!!

    Apr 22nd, 2013 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Xect

    “As for UK government borrowing, is it high? Yes, is it manageable?”

    Can you see only a dumbass can believe that.

    There is nothing manageable on these days in Britain and less the huge debt.

    Call me the day you wake up of your dream please. Will you?

    Apr 22nd, 2013 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mastershakejb

    lol, even China expects Argentina to default, but China has UK listed near the top of its credit rating........while Argentina is at the very bottom. Tell us DanyBerger, is there ANY country in the world that believes in Argentina? lol does even argentina believe in argentina? apparently not, since they are so desperate for US Dollars nowadays

    Apr 22nd, 2013 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Xect

    Sure thing Danny, LOL!

    Every respected economist believes the UK's debt is manageable even ones hostile to the UK but somehow you know better with no qualification on the subject.

    I guess we can chalk this up to another brilliant Danny post like launching nuclear strikes on the Falkland's Island's.........

    But I guess everyone is a dumbass except for Danny...........

    Apr 22nd, 2013 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • John Troll the 3rd

    Brits as usual moving the goalposts.

    Two years ago it was “AAA” or death, “if we lose it we cease being a proper nation”.

    Now that you lost it in multiple agencies, “it's not big deal, it's manageable”.

    It was you nincompoops that made it a “big deal” to not lose AAA, and all to get some short-term, cheap stabs at Argentina. But you made it such a huge issue because at the time you liked to brag to argies in their face that “Britain debt is never downgraded”.

    Except further downgrades as the UK is kicked out of the European free trade zone when they leave the EU.

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    “The debt manageable”

    You lot couldn't handle Billions, and now Trillions are “manageable”.
    It's clear you can't even imagine the amount of money a Trillion dollar is.

    To put it in perspective. A trillion seconds are some 1900 years.
    Imagine repaying 3 trillions. Just paying the interest will be a problem...

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mastershakejb

    lol @ Argentina

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    Oh! poor Britons I just can only feel pity...

    No Army, No carriers, no Royal Navy, no Money, no Economy, no jobs, no public service, no pride, no hope and now no even AAA rating to keep borrowing.

    Its not sad?

    BTW 42 millions Argentines didn't cho0se UK financial center to put their money according with “Global Capital of the World” a think tank base Sausalito Texas.

    More than USD 80bn in green cash seem to don't like British bankers, says Juan Manuel Sucker manager director of the think tank.

    Argentines trust more Uruguayan and Bolivian banks than troubling banks in UK, according with resent study carryout out among 9 people 3 Uruaguyan, 3 Bolivian and the rest don't know no answer...

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Also Add

    lol @ argentina!

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brazilian

    Those who will pay the price in the UK, as always, are the working class.

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mastershakejb

    massive inflation + high prices + low wages = the Argentine/Brazilian equation since 1960. I'd kill myself if I had to grow up in Argentina/Brazil

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    “massive inflation + high prices + low wages”

    What exactly does this guy think “inflation” is...

    Hahahahaha!!!

    Brazilian, any chances of letting him grow up in Brazil?
    We'll thank you dearly, we'll even let you win in 2014!

    ;)

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mastershakejb

    lol, you sure Brazil is even capable of hosting the World Cup? I mean with the condemned/behind schedule stadiums, corruption, crime, etc.

    lol @ Argentina/Brazil's insanely high prices and insanely high inflation. Already more expensive than USA and prices climbing much faster........but with much lower wages, ouch

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    World Cup of what?

    Apr 23rd, 2013 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    @Brazilian

    What working class if all are on unemployment benefits?
    Do you mean Unemployment class perhaps?

    Apr 24th, 2013 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate

    And they say the socialists don't want to work...

    Apr 24th, 2013 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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