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Montevideo, February 4th 2023 - 02:38 UTC

 

 

Uruguay admits trade and economic relations with Argentina ‘couldn’t be worse’

Saturday, May 4th 2013 - 10:03 UTC
Full article 160 comments

Vice-president Danilo Astori admitted on Friday that economic-trade relations with Argentina continue to deteriorate and seriously question Mercosur and Uruguay must therefore speed the search for other alternatives. Read full article

Comments

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  • redpoll

    Well some straight talking for a change. CFK wont like Uruguay cuddling up to Brazil whose relations with RA are pretty cool as demonstrated in the recent meeting of the two Presidents commented on in a separate article

    May 04th, 2013 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • screenname

    Mercosur is dead. Stop the press.

    May 04th, 2013 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    MercoSur died a long time ago...like Chavez.
    One wonders how much the Ks can destroy and how many people they'll take with them on the way down.
    Millions?
    10s of Millions?

    May 04th, 2013 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mastershakejb

    “Astori also mentioned that “integration among Latinamerican countries has been poor and the Mercosur situation is extremely bad”.”

    May 04th, 2013 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @4 mastershakejb
    PADI - What a deal you got!!!
    looking forward to diving the Pacific - I hear it's the best.
    Red Sea when it cools down, politically.

    Mercosur - looks like it was only a framework of convenience for Argentina to have a little leverage. It might not have been a bad idea when they were a going concern, but now it serves no purpose for anyone else.

    Brazil and Uruguay know this, now.

    May 04th, 2013 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mendoza Canadian

    And down she goes...

    May 04th, 2013 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • surfer

    Problem is you let China in, they will extract a very heavy price for their investment, witness what they're doing to Africa.

    May 04th, 2013 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rylang23

    @#7.... I am not current on the “heavy price” that China is placing on Africa, as a cost of investment there. Please provide links. Thanks.

    May 04th, 2013 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @9

    LOL, that's what Chavez used to say!!

    May 04th, 2013 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Until Argentinas issues with protectionism are resolved, we'll work together with Brazil and China.
    The dredging of Martín García canal is a done deal, the Chinese will sort that.
    That and the railway.
    You see Brits, we may disagree within the SA nations.
    It doesn't mean you lot are gaining anything.
    The Chinese will, which is fair enough

    ;)

    May 04th, 2013 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Who the hell other than the Argentines want to gain anything? I take it you have heard of the mythical Isles of Malvinas?

    May 04th, 2013 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    There is a nation far north that is talking about lost backyards...

    No backyards in a flat, I'm sorry to say.

    ;)

    May 04th, 2013 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    YOu do know CFK was planning on paying for the new rail cars with IDB money right?
    I don't see the Chinese doing anything for free do you?
    She also sent her minions to WB with the begging bowl, whining and crying to get eh money to fix the pumps etc in LaPlata. I don't see that happening either.
    too bad

    May 04th, 2013 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @12
    Deflection, Stevie

    Back to SOUTH America.

    With Argentina not cooperating with her neighbours, Argentina will sink unless they get help from further afield, China??

    Argentina, and your neighbour Uruguay, as well, but it won't be for free from China - you can be sure they'll get a lock on the future of your resources. That's what they need.

    Uruguay has the option of cooperation with Brazil, or anyone else, for that matter.

    May 04th, 2013 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    The Chinese know the Rgs are ruining the long term viability of their farming by over use of pesticides and under use of fertilizer.

    Talk is in under 10 yrs the vast majority of their farmland will be unusable.

    Then what do they have to offer anyone?

    May 04th, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Troy
    Of course we have the option to cooperate with Brazil.
    And China too.
    And we will.
    But even if I strongly disagree with Argentinas regional protectionism, one thing is for sure.
    Regardless of how we sort the issue with our big neighbours to the South, USA will never again get their hands on cheap SA resources.
    Not from Argentina, not from Venezuela.
    And while USA discusses that FTA with Uruguay yanqui has been talking about for quite some time now, China has become Uruguay's major trading partner.
    That's a fact.

    Nunca mas!

    May 04th, 2013 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    You lot always think everything happens so quickly.
    Give it time
    I imagine around the time the peso is 20/1 they'll be begging us.
    China is so last decade
    I don't know why you bother even bringing it up

    May 04th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    Simply because you lot seem to love the fact that we do disagree amongst the SA nations, even if far less than the EU nations, but fail to realize that the ones profitting from it are the Chinese.
    And in a larger scale, ideologically speaking, that is all fine with me, as long as you lot are kept away.

    ;)

    May 04th, 2013 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Why don't you read some current economic news out of China or about the 1000's VIOLENT Protests EVERY MONTH in the provinces, the Beijing cough, the out of control debt, ghost cities, etc etc etc
    and get back to me.
    A couple decades of bringing a VERY SMALL PORTION of their population out of abject poverty is not a miracle, it was state sponsored so it won't be long lasting, when the state fails, and it will there is going to be a long cycle of downturn and civil unrest.
    Just wait a mere 5 year or so

    May 04th, 2013 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    Who is talking about miracles?
    I'm merely stating the fact that in Uruguays case, China is the biggest Trading partner, USA being the biggest (and longest) FTA chit-chatter.
    Peculiar enough, the same seems to be the case for the rest of SA as well...

    May 04th, 2013 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Well let's see why is that? China needs beef and grain and we don't.
    Could that be the reason?
    Maybe
    Don't burst a blood vessel thinking about it too much

    BTW who did Uruguay call when they thought Argentina was going to invade?
    China?
    Nope
    USA USA USA

    May 04th, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    Look at what the Chinese have agreed with Uruguay in the short time we have dealt with them.
    The Canal.
    The Railway.
    Beef and rice exports.

    Look at what USA brought in all those years of “backyarding”.
    Military dictatorships.
    Dan Mitrione.
    External debt.

    As for your BTW, how did the Uruguayans react to that foolish move by Vazquez?

    May 04th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @19

    Stevie

    Why the hatred of the USA?
    It is a subject you deflect to, time and again.

    “yanqui
    Simply because you lot seem to love the fact that we do disagree amongst the SA nations, even if far less than the EU nations, but fail to realize that the ones profitting from it are the Chinese.
    And in a larger scale, ideologically speaking, that is all fine with me, as long as you lot are kept away.”

    This is what you seem to say:

    - the Chinese are profiting from SA because SA is not united.
    - I don't care because I prefer the ideology of the Chinese
    - I don't care because I prefer the Chinese or anybody, to trade with SA than the USA

    To summarise, you don't care if the people or the nations of SA get taken advantage of by China, as long as the US is out of it.

    Any trade deal has to have profit for both sides, or nobody would be interested.
    When you have only one buyer for your goods, they are in a position to extort whatever terms they like from you, and the Chinese are no fools.

    If you are the SA seller, it would be a case of “cutting your nose off to spite your face”. It doesn't make sense.

    Honestly, you come across as a Communist with a personal gripe about the USA.

    Ideologies: How does the life of the Chinese peasant or proletariat compare to the USA?

    May 04th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Troy
    You fail to see that SA isn't being taken for fools by the Chinese.
    They actually pay for the resources and they offer infrastructure instead of dictatorships. Solutions instead of torturers. Equal trade instead of massive debt.
    It is true that the Chinese are here to profit in the long run, but they don't do it “a prepo”, like your friends the yanquis.

    May 04th, 2013 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Stevie is a self proclaimed communist or Tupa retornado as he likes to call himself.

    It is too bad we missed a few
    the only good commie is a dead commie

    May 04th, 2013 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Ten years ago Rolls produced 350 Rollers a year, last year they produced 3500 and where did all those gas guzzlers go? Yep! The Peoples Republic of China.

    May 04th, 2013 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @26RC

    Well, somebody is making money in China, clearly not the proletariat though.

    3,500 'Rollers', not a lot for a country of a billion people.

    What is the ratio of privileged Party Members vs workers and peasants making subsistence wages, certainly there are millions of uninhibited homes in the ghost cities.
    Hardly an equitable 'distribution of wealth' if that is the objective of Stevie's preferred ideology.

    May 04th, 2013 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Two of my politically savvy friends reckon Vazquez may well be the next President.

    :o)

    May 04th, 2013 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Chris
    Vazquez will be Uruguay's Next President, there's no doubt about that whatsoever.
    After all, he does represent the Frente Amplio...

    May 04th, 2013 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    There was a piece on Sky, some Chinese entrepreneur had bought three of them, god awful green colour, even bragging about the fact that he had different precious stones set in to the instrument panels of each, diamonds on one, ruby on another etc. old Mao Tse Dong must be turning in his grave. Ah how Stevie must long for the good old days of the cultural revolution, everyone wearing the same old blue boiler suit and cap. The family, all climbing onto the state issued push bike before setting off for a lovely picnic at the collective. Few verses from the little red book, chant a few slogans and then tuck in to the state ration of the peoples rice.

    May 04th, 2013 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    reality check
    All fine by me, the Chinese can do whatever they feel they want to do with the newfound wealth.
    At least we profit from it too, instead of paying the price as we have done for so long with the “backyarders” from the North.

    Mao may be turning in his grave, but at least we don't have to turn every coin in our lives.

    You lot messed up, and you refuse to acknowledge you did. Well, there's no need for you lot to do so, but at least don't fool yourselves.

    May 04th, 2013 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirate Love

    You have to feel for Uruguay, think of it.... Argentina The Bi-Polar Coke-Tard as your neighbour spouting shit over your fence, F*ck that!

    I bet Uruguayans pray for argentina to start a war with UK so that they can see them have their ass served to them again in realtime.

    May 04th, 2013 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    “China as ”la fabrica del mundo“ – the factory of the world – arouses fear and resentment, as more than 90 percent of Latin American manufacturing exports are threatened by Chinese competition. No wonder some 60 percent of all anti-dumping cases launched against China at the World Trade Organization were filed by Latin American countries.”

    China is a country of 1.3 billion people with a per capita GDP no higher than Colombia or Peru's

    http://english.caixin.com/2011-11-09/100324170.html

    May 04th, 2013 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    Stevie your not very bright are you, are you related to TMBOA?

    May 04th, 2013 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    32 Pirate Love
    “I bet Uruguayans pray for argentina to start a war with UK so that they can see them have their ass served to them again in realtime.”

    YES, YES, YES!

    LOLs

    May 04th, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • andy65

    @ Stevie, One question how much is the Botox Queen paying you to constantly talk shit???

    May 04th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    Uruguay, for supporting Argentina's claim for the Falklands gets treated like dirt. If the country's leaders had any sense they would threaten to drop this suppport in return for some cooperation with Argentina. Then stand back and watch the love and kisses bs from CFK.

    May 04th, 2013 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Pete
    Treated like dirt by whom?
    The posters on MP?
    You really feel important, don't you?

    Hahahaha!!!

    May 04th, 2013 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh STevie, If Argentinians think Uruguayans are less than servants just think what people from the USA UK EU think of you.

    May 05th, 2013 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Well yanqui, you think of us about half of what we KNOW of you lot...

    May 05th, 2013 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DanyBerger

    Oh!

    Let me see...

    What is the nation more indebted with China?

    US

    What is the nation that buys more from China?
    US

    What nation can be ruined in a week if China dumps its currency?

    US

    And the idiots are making all this noise because Uruguay will partner with China to dredge a channel?

    Just funny...

    May 05th, 2013 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rylang23

    Hola Danny..... and welcome. I've not seen your comments before.

    I think you clearly see how strange the comments on MercoPress can get. Lots of inane accusations and potty mouth that pretends to be debate on important subjects.

    Stick around, as your voice is helpful here.

    May 05th, 2013 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @41 - Dany

    Once again you are showing your ignorance of economics.

    The USA may be in debt, but unlike Argentina (for example) the USA will pay off its debt, and its creditors know that.

    Why would China dump it's currency? It makes no economic sense at all, as the country that would come off worse would be China, as they wouldn't see any return on their investment.

    Uruguay can partner with China, no one has a problem with that. The only country holding up the dredging of the channel is Argentina, a country that is trying to strangle Uruguayan development, and access to deep water ports. They want all business funnelled through Argentine ports so they can charge through the mouth.

    If China does indeed get the go ahead to dredge the channel on Uruguay's behalf, then Argentina would be the ones to come off worse, not China or Uruguay. Or anyone else for that matter.

    What's the matter, Dany? Upset to see that all of Argentina's friends are deserting you? Well they were never truly friends of Argentina anyway, were they?

    Argentina believes that it has some God given right to dictate to all the other nations in South America, AND that you should be in control of the WHOLE of South America. It must stick in your craw that none of the other countries want anything to do with Argentina, even less so now that Cristina's economic model is at work.

    Argentina, the 'could've been' but 'never was' country. Destroyed, not by enemies, but by its own arrogance and incompetence.

    May 05th, 2013 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Lep, Don't confuse Dany with facts. He is happy with his delusions where Communist China is going to rule the world in 2014.

    The posts are getting more and more irrational from the CFK supporters as the lies they have spun are show to be false and their economic miracle is going down the toilet.

    May 05th, 2013 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Anyone notice that in the latest post by 'Dany' , his ideas were presented clearly, but erroneously, and his English was quite fluent, yet in other posts he is almost incoherent, his writings are gibberish?
    Looks like multiple operators for that account.

    “rylang23” new on here and he is making the public “bonding posts” with other Trolls - just more pantomime? Again?
    Obviously, an experienced 'operator'

    For all Turfedover's bluster, he knows he fcuked up and he only has his own arrogance to blame. The dedication and singlemindedness to craft Dame Dover and surfer are all wasted now.
    A more prudent puppeteer could have kept things going indefinitely, but he blew it.
    Sad that his whole waking life must revolve around his confrontations on Mercopress.
    Not content with baiting other posters over their political stands or arguing CFK politics, he has had to 'invent' issues and controversies, along with the characters to perpetuate the 'discussions'.

    Ha ha, joke's on 'Think' - he's ADDICTED to MP, the very people he says he despises - HE NEEDS THEIR ATTENTION!!!

    And amusingly, MP just let's him run with it. While he is busy feeding his obsession on here, he has no time to be elsewhere, and his IP address is noted and perhaps his computer is even now being mined for information.

    Ha ha 'Think”

    May 05th, 2013 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    Notice that the intellectual that is sussie hasn't been on here for a while must be busy season. Also see that THINK confused himself on another thread whilst answering himself as he does, what a plank

    May 05th, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Slatzzz

    Vice squad or Homeland Security?

    One or the other would be my guess.

    May 05th, 2013 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    And just like Brazil
    Uruguay will put its interest first,

    You see, it business [as they say]

    But CFK must edge away from this dying myth, that all South America loves her and her policies and her hatred of the British,
    It’s simply not true,
    As she will slowly but surely find out.

    The world is changing but CFK refuses the change with it.

    May 05th, 2013 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    briton
    It's not a choice between Argentina and the UK.
    As you see, when Uruguay can't agree with Argentina, we don't turn to the UK.
    Neither does Brazil.

    That we disagree with Argentina on their regional protectionism doesn't mean we agree with the Brits in militarizing the South Atlantic.

    As you will find out.

    May 05th, 2013 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    but we are not militarizing the South Atlantic

    and CFK thinks you will all protect her interests,
    am i not correct.

    May 05th, 2013 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ayayay

    @15 REA”Y good point, YankeeB. And tree roots , subcultures lose the topsoil to floods.

    May 05th, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • agent999

    @48 Stevie

    http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_157506/uk-welcomes-250th-brazilian-navy-sailor-for-maiden-sea-trials

    http://www.baesystems.com/article/BAES_157506/uk-welcomes-250th-brazilian-navy-sailor-for-maiden-sea-trials

    May 05th, 2013 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    @49 you keep coming out with these threats don't you stevie?

    May 05th, 2013 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    agent999

    Your first link is from the UK coast

    Your second is from the caribbean.

    slattzz
    What threats?

    May 05th, 2013 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • agent999

    @54
    so what is the problem?

    May 05th, 2013 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Agent999
    No problem at all.
    Militarize the UK coast as much as you want...

    May 05th, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @49 - Stevie

    You are not Uruguayan. Why pretend? Everyone knows this.

    Your are an Argentine troll, which makes Argentina look pathetic, if you're all that they have to 'argue' their corner.

    Uruguay wouldn't trust Argentina as far as they could throw them, and with good reason.

    Uruguay also knows that it has nothing to fear regarding the UK, the same cannot be said about Argentina.

    You know, Argentina that CLAIMS the whole of Uruguay as an Argentine province, and they will one day RECLAIM it.

    Sounds familiar, doesn't it? Well its because Argentina is greedy. They want, and they want, and they are never satisfied with what they have. They completely mismanage their own country, and are always looking to other countries that are successful, with envious eyes. They can't understand how Brazil, Chile, Uruguay and the Falklands are successful and they aren't.

    They don't understand that a lot of hard work by the government and people of these countries have made them successes. Argentina just expects everything without actually doing anything to achieve it.

    Argentina: the 'could've been' country that is a 'never was' country. It couldn't even make it to 'has been' status. At least then they would've at least achieved something at some point in their past.

    May 05th, 2013 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Uruguay has absolutely nothing to fear regarding the UK.
    Neither does Argentina.
    SA isn't the Middle East.

    You are just a bunch of lunatics filled with hot air.

    As for Argentina calling Uruguay a province.
    Well, I've heard that quite a few times from some porteños.
    They ususally shut up when we beat them in yet another final.

    And I could not care less of where you think I come from.

    ;)

    May 05th, 2013 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    your right we don't care where you come from ................why? your not worth worrying about, see you try to change the subject to football though.
    What threats you say, well you will find out, as you keep saying, that's a threat isn't it?
    Militarize the UK coast as much as you want...thanks we will, why? Cause we can. Shame rgenweener cant afford to do the same.
    Uruguay has nothing to fear from the UK .....correct.
    Neither does Argentina....................Wrong

    May 05th, 2013 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Uruguay has absolutely nothing to fear regarding the UK.
    Neither does Argentina.
    SA isn't the Middle East.

    Er except just a few years ago Uruguay was afraid Argentina was going to invade over the Pulp mill
    Was it not?

    May 05th, 2013 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @45 Troy Tempest

    It has been an interesting week on Mercopress. You have to wonder who is who in the zoo.

    Rylang23 does indeed live in Uruguay. He and his partner moved there last September from Oregon. He lives in La Palmita.

    Think has admitted that both surfer and Doveoverdover are his sockpuppets:
    http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/04/brazil-furious-with-cristina-fernandez-non-kept-promises-freezes-relation#comment244723

    And yet is still replying to himself on various fora.

    And Stevie was outed by me as not living in Uruguay and not even able to understand Spanish that well:
    http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/04/brazil-furious-with-cristina-fernandez-non-kept-promises-freezes-relation#comment244723

    And then there is the plethora of new posters in the past week.

    As Stevie says “I could not care less of where you think I come from” - however if someone is caught out in a blatant lie, then why would you believe anything they say?

    Seems that Think and Stevie now have zero credibility. Rylang23 however is just a die-hard leftie so argues from the heart at least.

    May 05th, 2013 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rylang23

    That was great, Anglo! Really!

    May 06th, 2013 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Anglolatino
    You lot are caught in blatant lies every sigle day.
    Let me post some examples.

    According to you lot: Mercosur is dead.
    Reality: Ecuador and Bolivia are about to join.

    According to you lot: Brazil breaks relations with Argentina.
    Reality: Brazil and Argentina are working on long-term trade.

    According to you lot: The Falklands are British.
    Reality: The Falklands are South American. (There is a discussion if they are Argentine, but regardless what, the islands are defenitively not British).

    You'd love for me to lie and say I'm Argentine, that would fit your arguments perfectly.
    But regardless your obsession about my origins, it wont change a bit, I'm sorry to say.
    Those who matters in these threads knows who I am, and if you don't know, it's quite simple. You just don't matter.

    You know what I think? You just can't stand the fact that there are plenty of South Americans that agrees with Argentina and will in fact defend her.

    You fail to realize that we do indeed criticise her within our borders, and sometimes even directly. But the vast majority will not have Brits having a go at our illustrous neighbour, especially having in mind what and who you are.

    I know you say you are Australian. But that is not totally true, is it?
    Why on earth would an Australian have interest in the South Atlantic?
    Either you are just another British tax evader or you were badly dumped by an Argentine bufarrón...

    As for my Spanish, try me...

    ;)

    May 06th, 2013 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @62 Rylang23

    We might not agree on many things, however I will always defend someone when they are wrongly accused. Our political and economic outlooks may differ, but we have a lot in common too. Architecture and following a dream for instance. I, at least know that you are real. I hope one day I can do what you are doing.

    @63 Stevie

    I caught you out in a lie and your comeback is “you lot” lie?

    Who is “you lot”? People who disagree with you? English speakers?

    Mercosur, Brazil and Argentina and Falklands – I make my opinions known. If they align or disagree with others, then so be it. An opinion is an opinion.

    Misstating a fact is either a mistake or a lie.

    I have told you several times that I don’t care where you are as long as you don’t lie. You lied. I exposed it. You keep making this about who and what you ARE and I have only concentrated on who and what you AREN’T.

    If you are Argentine, then be proud of it. If you are a Uruguayan expat, then be proud of it.

    Defend your beliefs all you want. But don’t lie. That isn’t defending that is lying.

    I have always been open about my nationality and you will not find any contradictions. I am indeed born in Australia and living here at this moment. I have lived in other countries and travelled extensively. I have Spanish, Danish, Scottish, Irish, Welsh and English ancestry. The last time a family member was born outside Australia was in 1886 – before my country was even founded. I’ve travelled through 28 countries and lived in 4. I’m currently studying at Melbourne University doing a Bachelor of Environments. Urban Design or Architecture major… who knows. What I do know is that I plan on doing 1 year in Germany (6 months Stuttgart and 6 months Berlin) and 6 months in South America – Colombia or Chile most likely – not sure yet.

    See how easy that was! As I am proud of who I am, it can’t be used against me.

    And if your Spanish is that good, you should ask yourself why you felt the need to pretend otherwise.

    May 06th, 2013 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    Astori isn't “Uruguay”, he's a right-winger with an eagenda...

    May 06th, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Anyone ever notice that when BK appears....other ID's fade away?

    May 06th, 2013 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    65 British_Kirchnerist (#)
    May 06th, 2013 - 01:09 pm

    That is the most ridiculous comment, BK, Astori is “Frente Amplio hasta la medula”, he is more centrist than Pepe, but is definitely left of centre!!!!

    May 06th, 2013 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @66 Yes.

    May 06th, 2013 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Anglolatino
    Pretending that one knows less than one actually does is quite useful indeed, and in no way a lie.
    I'm Uruguayan - true
    I visit the country a lot, as often as I can - true
    My Spanish is rusty, regarding the daily slang - true

    You see Anglolatino, one thing does not exclude the other, and you in your inferior complex mistaken for a superior one, think you can draw conclusions using the product of limited knowledge added to limited imagination.
    As a rainbow guy one would think you'd be more open minded...

    Now, claim your victory for that most weird of fidhing trips, but please stop stalking me.
    I respect your sexuality, please respect mine.

    May 06th, 2013 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Some say-
    Uruguay has nothing to fear from the UK,
    Some even say Argentina has nothing to fear from the UK,
    Even some more say, South America has nothing to fear from the UK.
    ……………….
    We say the reverse=
    The UK has nothing to fear from Uruguay
    The UK has nothing to fear from Argentina
    The UK has nothing to fear from South America,

    And the point was?
    Their was no point in argie bloggers saying it in the first place,
    Totally irrelevant considering none of the mentioned above was ever threatened in the first place.

    Just a thought..
    .

    May 06th, 2013 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #66 I don't.But if true, maybe it means they stand down, knowing their side of the argument is in good hands - or that they back off in embarrassment! So the take home message for me would be a tossup between “stop undermining the cause” and “keep up the good work”! hmmm

    May 06th, 2013 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @69stevie

    “Now, claim your victory for that most weird of fidhing trips, but please stop stalking me.
    I respect your sexuality, please respect mine.”

    Stevie,

    Could it be that Anglotino sees a weakness in your arguments and assertions?

    Surely, as prolific as you are on MP, you are aware that you are in a position to plant a lot of misinformation and influence the direction of discussions by contentious denials and misdirection.

    You cannot deny anyone else from taking exception to what you say, or questioning your motives and your sources of information, if it might mislead other readers.
    If you post statements on here, be prepared to back them up and defend them. Much of your credibility rests in how objective you appear and the objectivity of your source information.

    If Anglotino appears to be challenging you alot, it is likely that it is because of the high volume of your posts.
    If he appears to be “stalking”, perhaps it's because he has identified a sickly or 'weak' member of the herd, that is fair game and has a good chance of being easily brought down.

    As an observer, you appear to me to be the one who initiated the “stalker” charges with the derogatory connotation of a 'sexual predator'.

    I imagine that it is very uncomfortable for you to receive so much negative attention to your comments, but to persist that there is a sexual element to it is unfounded.
    Are you are attempting to discredit Anglotino, and his challenges,by suggesting that you are an object of 'homosexual desire'?
    That might play well to childish homophobe followers, but an impartial reader would think that the issue of sexuality is ridiculous!

    “I respect your sexuality, please respect mine.”

    LOL !!!
    A non-issue, but you make it clear that you don't respect his sexuality.
    Are you a CFK speech-writer???

    May 06th, 2013 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Good points Troy.

    I still thinks he likes me...

    May 06th, 2013 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @73stevie

    “Good points Troy.”

    Sorry I had to lay it out so pedantically, I know YOU know exactly what the issues are, but 'playing to the larger audience', I thought I should list everything carefully.

    May 06th, 2013 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Well Troy, regarding the fact that I do know who I am and where I'm from, I can just choose to disregard what he think is a lie and indeed let him think whatever he likes.
    I've told him to in plenty of occasions and still he insists in talking about my origin and very little about his opinions about anything else than my person.

    I can only come to the conclusion that this gentleman wants to know me. And that's ok, he merely needs to ask. Just as Troy does from time to time. I respect all sexualities, but lets be straight, it wasn't be flashing my sexuality back in Christmas. Hence I just want to make sure him and me understands eachother in that sense.
    I know many good men. Some of them are gay. That doesn't automatically make Anglolatino one.

    May 06th, 2013 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Do you think he could be asking about your origins to better understand you or better see what influences colour your perspective, perhaps?

    May 06th, 2013 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Maybe, why doesn't he just ask then?

    Sorry to mention you in third person, not intentional.

    May 06th, 2013 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @ 69 Stevie

    “I'm Uruguayan - true”

    But not living in Uruguay. As I have said time and time again (but doesn't seem to sink in well) I just highlight your lies.

    So now you are Uruguayan but don't live in Uruguay.

    Which makes these quotes more interesting:

    http://en.mercopress.com/2012/12/20/uruguay-diversifies-energy-mix-with-530-mw-combined-cycle-gas-power-plant

    Post 9:
    “A country's perception of it's own internal matters will always outweight a critical expat who thinks he knows better.”

    An expat that thinks he knows better – that would be you!

    Post 11:
    “Imagine me being Uruguayan as yourself and moving to the UK by own will. Imagine me logging in to a Uruguayan site and continously bash the UK for things I percieve as badly managed.”

    Imagine you being Uruguayan like Redpoll? So not Uruguayan at this time.
    And logging into a Uruguayan website.... like Mercopress?
    And criticising the UK.... like you do?

    Imagine John Lennon imagine!

    Post 15:
    “I've been to South America on various ocassions, and I never fail visiting your little nation.”

    How nice, you visited Redpoll’s “little nation”. Not your own? Doesn't sound like the very proud Uruguayan you have since morphed into.

    I have consistently told you that I will use your own words against you.

    As for chasing you. As the most prolific poster on this site, I think you are a little paranoid. This is post 78 on this article. 20 of those posts are by you.

    That 25% of all comments are from you.

    Compared to my 2! Seems everyone is chasing you.

    The rest of your paranoia is just that – fluff to deflect.

    Keep posting Stevie – the more you say, the more contradictions that can be quoted. You’ve yet to do the same for me.

    May 06th, 2013 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Anglolatino
    You still want to discuss my origins...
    That Uruguay is my little nation doesn't make it less true when I refer to it as another Uruguayans little nation. Simple as that.

    Tell you what, lets leave it at that.
    I'm quite convinced I can't convince you of anything and to be honest, the lack of interest of doing so is now overwhelming.
    Continue your odyssey.
    Dress well.

    May 07th, 2013 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Conks: No way Astori is right wing. The sod has practically doubled taxes!
    Anglolatino & LEPrecon: You're right. Guzz ... er ... Stevie is no Uruguayan. Amazing the amount of free time the silly bugger has! He's either living off his parents or is a salaried troll. The latter is more likely.
    Anglolatino: Where is La Palmita? Do you mean La Paloma or Palmitas by any chance?

    May 07th, 2013 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @ Troy
    Sorry I forgot to say thanks earlier!

    @ynsere
    Anyone can lie..... it seems the idiots are getting caught at it this past week!

    I'm not sure of the location. Rylang23 might be able to clarify if I misspelt or misunderstood. But at least he is actually in Uruguay and doesn't lie.

    May 07th, 2013 - 04:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    81 Anglotino

    Keep going as you are!

    From a Brit, living in beautiful Uruguay and criticising the government because, unlike Stevie, I actually pay TAX here and that plus all my investments are now here gives me a financial stake in the place! :o)

    May 07th, 2013 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Do any of the posters supporting CFK's government actually live in Argentina?

    May 07th, 2013 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Only one that is a possibility. That kid Toby whith enough names he uses a FIFO inventory system to keep track of them. Then you have the likes of someone like BK.....pretending to be an Anglo supporting Kirchner, in reality an Argentine.

    May 07th, 2013 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I used to think TTT lived in Mendoza but his descriptions are from a brochure not the reality. And his language is not typical even though he claims to have acquired it by watching soap operas. He pretty much disappeared when I said I was going back to Mendoza.

    May 07th, 2013 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Elaine

    His pictures of new shopping malls in Mendoza were only photoshopped.

    May 07th, 2013 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @86 Ah. I can't say I ever went to a shopping mall in Mendoza.

    Last time I was there I noticed an increase in beggars, especially children, but still liked the place. The locals were much more spooked about the rising crime and expressed a lot of concern about the failing economy and Vale leaving - though that had not been finalised at the time they saw the writing on the wall. I think I mentioned before about people reverting to basic phones because they couldn't get parts for smart phones and having to abandon machinery designed to improve the wine making industry as they could not get parts to keep them working.

    May 07th, 2013 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • TroLLey_to_Truth

    Oh my goodness look at these losers, I have not been around in two weeks (I actually take my studies seriously, unlike you tossers), so I can't spend my life here on this hateful board.

    This is the basic problem you dimwits have: you believe that a person like me blasting you idiotic foreigners for your hatred and calling you out on your mendacious tales is tantamount to ”I

    May 07th, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @88teen troll Toby

    “This is the basic problem you dimwits have: you believe that a person like me blasting you idiotic foreigners for your hatred and calling you out on your mendacious tales is tantamount to ”I”

    Your translation software is faulty or school is too difficult for you.
    Your brain is fried and your post is gibberish.

    Most people on here have accomplished more than you ever will, three times over.
    They have the education, experience, and integrity, you will never have.

    With every post you show how much you need to learn.

    May 07th, 2013 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • TroLLey_to_Truth

    No the problem is this website is junk, and it truncated my reply for no reason. Here is my full reply to educate you (since I have superior education you can be guaranteed of that):

    - - - - -

    Oh my goodness look at these losers, I have not been around in two weeks (I actually take my studies seriously, unlike you tossers), so I can't spend my life here on this hateful board.

    This is the basic problem you dimwits have: you believe that a person like me blasting you idiotic foreigners for your hatred and calling you out on your mendacious tales is tantamount to ”I loooove CFK“. And that is your cortical plumbing problem, not mine.

    Second, I NEVER meet anyone from the internet in person. I value my privacy. And I would most certainly never meet anyone from this board, who have clearly demonstrated their ”loving” sentiments towards argies and most especially towards me. I value my safety.

    Third:

    http://labarracamall.com/actualidad.html

    That is the mall of which I showed the picture of the shell of the bulding mid-last year. That mall and the Cineplex open later this month.

    and

    http://labarracamall.com/actualidad.html

    The other mall already is open, as the picture obviously shows. And the movieplex is about to open as well.

    So you see my noetically hapless fiends, once again it's one card to low for y'all. And once again you have taken a free ride on the TroLLey_to_Truth. Have a good trip, buffoons!

    May 07th, 2013 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    ChrisR

    He keeps twisting and squirming and trying to turn this is to something it isn't. Though he is the ineffective that it has almost turned into a blood sport.

    Captain Poppy and ElaineB

    Wow that was an amazing trick. I wonder if I talk about a million dollars that it will suddenly appear.

    May 07th, 2013 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    With a population of over 40,000,000 people, bragging about one or two malls.........takes courage.
    Between the teachers, the bus drivers, the farmers and the general public, Argentina is doing wonderful. This link will give you a choice of Argentina articles to read....if you are an Argentine, take a valium first.
    They are all based on reality so .....lall bad news.

    http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/tag/argentina-economy/#axzz2ScMbSH6h

    I see Pippy Longstockings has a new name again......ADHD for sure.

    May 07th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @teen Trolley Troll

    “That is the mall of which I showed the picture of the shell of the bulding mid-last year. That mall and the Cineplex open later this month.”

    Um, you showed us an aerial view of a modern, complete, mall in a parking lot of cars.

    The photo was an obvious photoshop - and it must have been, as you admit it is not complete now and was less complete, a year ago.

    Looked like a photoshop depiction of a planned development.

    You have not proven anything.

    How many shops will be there a year from now?
    I'd be interested to compare your account to what Elaine says.

    @TeenTT

    “This is the basic problem you dimwits have: you believe that a person like me blasting you idiotic foreigners for your hatred and calling you out on your mendacious tales is tantamount to ”I loooove CFK“. And that is your cortical plumbing problem, not mine.”

    Ok, dispel that image for us.
    Answer me this, what do you think of CFK and her governance of your country and your people??

    May 07th, 2013 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • TroLLey_to_Truth

    @93

    Ah yes, the tin foil response. It must be photoshoped. Stop being pathetic. Why would La Nacion, which is not even from Mendoza, photoshop anything that would remotely benefit CFK's image about handling the economy? Do you think before you type?

    What do I think about CFK and her governance? I don't comment about domestic matters with foreigners.

    @92

    Mendoza has 1 million as a city, and probably has more malls under construction than many USA states. Or do I need really to gather some pictures of malls, supermarkets, car dealerships and entire neighborhoods which are growing vines and weeds? The commercial real estate in the USA is a DISASTER!

    May 07th, 2013 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Pictures means shit. Besides.....Malls are passe'. If you ever left the third world shit hole you call mendoza you would know that.
    Want some CONSTRUCTION PICTURES TOO?
    A million mallrats will go into the big new mall?

    bahahahahahahahahahaha

    May 07th, 2013 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    94 TroLLey_to_Truth
    “The commercial real estate in the USA is a DISASTER!”

    While ARs sector is ploughing ahead under a blanket ban on the use of dollars!

    Do YOU check before YOU type?

    What a twat you have become from the young man who could actually use the English language very well, if a little verbosely.

    Now look at you (if you are the same person, of course).

    May 07th, 2013 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @94teenyTrolltit

    “Ah yes, the tin foil response. It must be photoshoped. Stop being pathetic. Why would La Nacion, which is not even from Mendoza, photoshop anything that would remotely benefit CFK's image about handling the economy? Do you think before you type?

    What do I think about CFK and her governance? I don't comment about domestic matters with foreigners.”

    Lol, no amount if squirming or name-calling is going to get you out of this.

    YOU posted a photoshopped photo of a projected new mall, representing it as complete and an example of Mendoza's increasing prosperity.

    La Nacion has nothing to do with it.

    The crux of the matter, and the heart of this discussion is, “ Does Toby Teen Troll speak the truth, or is he trying to create a facade to cover up Argentina's economic and infrastructure problems?”

    You claim to live in Mendoza and you claim to report on economic progress and the daily lives of residents.
    Your projected image is called into doubt by your evidence being composed of doctored images, contrary news stories of Mendoza, and personal accounts of Mendoza from people who have travelled there, Elaine, Yankeeboy, etc.

    Nobody could give two shits WHO you really are, or WHERE your address is, exactly.
    THEY DO NOT WANT TO MEET YOU.
    Not only are they not interested, but you are likely boring and tedious, in person as well as on here.

    We are interested in having you prove you are not lying. Your 'personal' experiences of Mendoza lack credibility in part, because you say nothing conclusive to show you actually know anything about Mendoza that is not on the Internet.
    You seem to be very vague because of large ego/low self-esteem or fear, as you have said, and possibly because you are not from there at all.

    You could load your own pictures anonymously on Dropbox and link them to us, but you don't - everything is a commercial link.

    We question your truthfulness as well as your motivation.

    As KA Compora, you know CFK is indefensible

    May 07th, 2013 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    So, if I say 'here, boy' he comes running. OK

    I was not intending to meet with TTT, I had a pretty full schedule, but it might have been fun to compare his ramblings with the reality.

    I like Mendoza. I was offered land when I was there and very lovely it was too. But I would never invest my money in Argentina with such an unstable government and a looney at the helm.

    May 07th, 2013 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Elaine

    While you are in Mendoza, you could always keep an “empty chair” at your dinner table for TTToby.
    His large but fragile ego might compel him to come to you if he thinks you won't make the effort to chase him down.

    Personally, I don't know how he could resist - it would confirm he was ' right' all along, wouldn't it?

    That is, IF he lives in Mendoza at all.

    :-)

    May 07th, 2013 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @99 Actually, it doesn't matter where he lives. He contributes nothing of any value to the discussions.

    May 07th, 2013 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @100elaine

    true, he refuses to discuss Argentina's politics or CFK, so what's left.

    To discuss CFK
    , he would reveal his motives and true allegiances.
    Also, particularly bad for him, he would find that her policies and tactics are logically and morally indefensible - a sticky morass for someone like him who lacks the competence to argue.

    And he is just bright enough to know that.

    May 07th, 2013 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #90 “This is the basic problem you dimwits have: you believe that a person like me blasting you idiotic foreigners for your hatred and calling you out on your mendacious tales is tantamount to ”I loooove CFK“.”

    But you should =) Some foreigners, like me, do too =)

    May 08th, 2013 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Ooh Troy

    Nail

    Head

    Hit

    May 08th, 2013 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Thanks. He is hardly an enigma.

    :-D

    May 08th, 2013 - 06:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Hahaha!

    Of course it matter where Trolley comes from.

    It not only matters, it's crucial for your lots arguments

    Hahahahaha!!!

    May 08th, 2013 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    94. Toby, you know you are right abotu malls not being built in the USA, we stopped building them a long time ago because we developed a new concept called a TOWN CENTER. It is a live, work, shop, play mini town instead of the one destination mall with a huge parking lot. They're bad for the environment and pretty unstable financially. Personally I think it has a lot to do with Internet shopping but that is just a guess.
    Cap is right, you need to leave the 3rd world and the 1960-70s and catch up a bit. Your countty is quickly falling far behind. It probably still looks modern for the Bolivians though.
    Plus with no international brands, no FDI, quickly rising unemployment, RG wine industry crashing who is going to these malls? You can build them but it doesn't mean they'll survive without customers.
    I hear there are also lots of hotels closing in the country due to the huge decrease in foreign tourists.

    Also you may want to look at some recent stats for both residential and commercial stats in the USA. They are looking pretty good. We have LOTS and I mean LOTS of foreign investment money flooding into the USA too.
    More than we have ever had as a % of the economy.
    It is quite astonishing
    I have over U$ 3 Billion of new construction going on within 5 blocks of my house! That is more than your whole country! AND THIS IS JUST IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD!!

    May 08th, 2013 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Some projects in my area Toby

    http://www.boston.com/realestate/gallery/current_construction_projects?pg=2

    35 commercial projects in Boston for a few billion.

    Like Yankee said....the 60s and 70s are behind us.

    May 08th, 2013 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I just read an article that The Canadian Retirement Fund is deperate to build commerical buildings in Boston, DC, NYC, San Fran and Chicago on spec without a tenant!

    May 08th, 2013 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Toby is not listening now.

    He is curled up cowering under the coffee table with his tail between his legs and licking himself for 'comfort'.

    Where I live in Canada, there is unprecedented building of luxury condos and new transportation infrastructure.

    Much of the money is 'offshore' (China) but our real estate market all over, is healthy.

    We are poised to export fuel and bitumen. It is only held up because the quantities are so vast they are concerned about how to safeguard the environment along the coast, with the doubled tanker traffic.

    New “Shopping Village” communities are springing up, with high-end boutique stores and expensive chains.

    I heard that some obsolete malls are being considered as municipal buildings and offices, as they are in the US.

    Toby,
    Please post pictures of your bustling 'modern' malls in Mendoza.

    May 08th, 2013 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Since when are malls signs of any kind of prosperity???

    Best thing that can happen is that USA closes that deal with the EU.

    That would strenghten the ties between China and SA.

    Wonderful!

    May 08th, 2013 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @110stevie

    “Since when are malls signs of any kind of prosperity???”

    Stevie
    That really is my point.
    Toby Teen Troll has been posting for the past year that he lives in a prosperous Argentina, and he lists the new malls (with photoshopped fake pics) as proof that all is well and they live the good life spending freely in the high-end Internationsl chain stores.

    We know that it is not true. The malls are still being built or cancelled. IF they open, who will buy there with Vale pulling out of Argentina, falling real estate, and the bounding inflation, and devalued peso??

    In North America, there is a rebounding real estate market, a recovering economy and healthy outside investment. Credit card and homeowner debt is dropping. The dollar is healthier.
    A bit of a difference.

    May 08th, 2013 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Stevie, It seems like China has the same problem with stats as Argentina has.
    My oh my
    Why would they lie if it's all going swimmingly?

    You do realize that ALL OF SOUTH AMERICA's GDP doesn't add up to the USAs top 4-5 states right?
    Think China's going to give up on the biggest market in the world to concentrate on one of the smallest?
    Do you want thier contry to fail all together?
    Plus the only counties left in SA without FTA with USA are failing...again..and quickly.

    May 08th, 2013 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Well Troy
    I tell you where the difference is.

    In 10 Trillions of borrowed dollars.

    May 08th, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @113stevie

    Trillions of borrowed dollars, a huge economy, good credit

    VS

    Billions of stolen dollars, a crumbly economy, and abused credit, if any

    May 08th, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @113stevie

    And the US Dollar IS the reserve currency.

    End of story unless you are going down the road with that eminent 'economist' and Sage Of Holland (or the USA when they let him in) the BitCoin 'expert himself: Fido Dildo!

    May 08th, 2013 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Lets discount what we owe before making the numbers.

    Then we can talk about prosperity.

    ;)

    May 08th, 2013 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    116 Stevie

    You STILL don't get it or will acknowledge the reality of the US Dollar being the reserve currency.

    It has NOTHING to do with discounts on what any country owes or owns. Their currency is NOT the reserve one FFS!

    May 08th, 2013 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    116. Shall we include all of the $ in the country's banks, the valuations of all the stock and commodities markets, oil and gas in the ground, art/treasure held in museums, our military might, on and on and on.

    You make youself look more foolish with every single post

    May 08th, 2013 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    10.45 for the blue dollar......it's like watching an IPO climb

    May 08th, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    except in reverse :)

    May 08th, 2013 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Chris
    You mean that Fiat currency?

    Sure...

    ;)

    yanqui
    You better include all that you mention. Otherwise, how are you going to pay?

    ;)

    May 08th, 2013 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    ChrisR

    Definition of RESERVE CURRENCY
    “foreign currency that is acceptable as a medium of international payments and that is therefore held in reserve by many countries”

    Definition of FIAT CURRENCY
    “Currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, despite the fact that it has no intrinsic value and is not backed by reserves”

    After rereading your posts, I am sure you are indeed actually talking about a reserve currency.

    Some people are too busy lying about themselves and deflecting to bother learning the distinction it would seem.

    May 09th, 2013 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Anglolatino
    Problem arises when you start using Fiat currency as reserve currency.

    Or do you sincerely don't see any problems with that scenario?

    If not, good on you.

    Enjoy the free fall.

    Just in case, I'll save in life.

    ;)

    May 09th, 2013 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Stevie, Take a little read and maybe you'll understand why you are so out of touch about China.

    China may not overtake America this century after all
    Doubts are growing about whether China can pass the US to become the world's biggest economy this century amid warnings that the country’s 30-year miracle is nearing exhaustion.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/10044456/China-may-not-overtake-America-this-century-after-all.html

    May 09th, 2013 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #124 So you believe in the project for a new American (by default!) century??

    May 09th, 2013 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    That sentence makes no sense.

    If you don't know what is happening in the USA with our o/g industry you should read a little bit.
    We will not be importing o/g shortly
    What do you think that will do to our trade balance? Manufacturing base? Tax Revenue? etc etc etc
    The USA has a very bright future.
    Very bright indeed.
    We will be the World's only super power for as far as anyone can predict.

    May 09th, 2013 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    USA has run of bugdet deficit for as long as anyone remember.
    They keep borrowing and borrowing Money from the IMF and WB in order to upkeep their standard of living.

    If you think that is sustainable, good on you. Good luck.

    Either way, that is not important.

    What IS important, is the fact that SA will trade with Africa, China and the Middle East, improving our lives.

    Regardless of the path USA chooses to take.

    May 09th, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Yes yes....we keep borrowing and the funny thing is we keep paying it back, unlike south americans.
    Debt is a balance sheet items....no? Debt's are comparable to assets....no?
    Add up all the assets the USA governments owns, land.....buildings, etc. etc.........what's out net worth?

    Yes this is your future in China:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/business/global/after-a-strong-recovery-chinas-economy-unexpectedly-stumbles-again.html?_r=0

    Africa is where man first walked upright and they are even farther behind development than SA.....such a bright future.....right up there with mercosur's trade agreement with Syria and the Palestinian Authority........you must really be living in squaler to feel that will improve your live.

    May 09th, 2013 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Stevie, We are a LENDER to IMF, IDB, WB we don't borrow money from them.
    You must be on the same medicine as the dumb, dumber, dumbest econ crew in Argentina.

    May 09th, 2013 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    122 Anglotino

    Correct.

    It's just a shame that 'Tricky Dickie' Nixon also made it a fiat currency when he disassociated the Dollar from the US gold reserves.

    BTW doesn't Obama make Nixon look as senior as Washington?

    May 09th, 2013 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #126 I wish the US as a country only the best. Its your obsession (I mean you, personally) with keeping everybody else down that bothers me! Good for America if it finds innovative ways to keep its economy affloat; but do you really think nobody else has the right or capability to do the same?

    May 09th, 2013 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui and Poppy

    If it is, as you say;

    - We keep borrowing and we also pay it back
    or
    -We don't borrow, we lend

    then

    how come you owe more and more each and every year?

    Simple maths, lads...

    May 09th, 2013 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Borrow...pay back
    you do know it is the pay back part people like
    that is why we pay 3% interest on 30yr bonds

    Most Foreign gov't hold US Debt as a Reserve more so than gold.
    Why do you think that is?

    I agree I don't like all the debt financing but we will bring it down as major changes in our economy take place over the next decade.

    Even in what is considered a 1.5% growth year we add the GDP of Brazil to our country, 2% France etc etc

    Do you see why your pessimistic predictions can never come to pass?

    Your jealousy is making you irrational.

    May 09th, 2013 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Stephen...if you mathimatically do not know the answer to that simple question of your's, why are you even talking here?
    Why was the USA 2010 GDP 14,043,000,000,000?
    Why was the USA 2011 GDP 14,582,000,000,000?
    Why was the USA 2012 GDP 15,094,00,000,000?

    Why does my paycheck increase every year? You ask really stupid questions like why debt increases.

    Tell me Stephen......is the US Government debt exceeding the US government assets?

    May 09th, 2013 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Simple math, logic or facts seem to flummox most of the CFk supporters here. I try to explain as simply as I would to a 5 yo and they still can't grasp it well an American 5 y/o that is.

    May 09th, 2013 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    Obviously, you lot are borrowing more than you pay back.
    Hence, you are not paying back, are you?

    ;)

    Poppy
    If your plan is to sell all US government assets in order to pay your debt, or offer 1 whole year of GDP (with accentuation on Gross), then yes, you are right, the debt does not exceed the assets.
    In every other scenario, it does.
    There is a reason you lot haven't paid it back yet, and continue to build on it instead.

    May 09th, 2013 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    We pay back the bonds on a daily basis.
    New ones are bought
    then we pay those back when they are due

    Are you really that stupid or just trying to be a dick?

    May 09th, 2013 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Funny that Timmerman in the same sentence said everything was wonderful between Argentina and Uruguay and told off President Mujica for “talking about Argentine politics to gain internal points”.
    In today's Uruguay practically nobody is pro-Argentine, including most of the government.

    May 10th, 2013 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    So, you borrow more money to pay back the money you owe.
    Plus a little more to cover your deficit.

    And you call that “paying back”?

    May 10th, 2013 - 04:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    do you suggest we default like you lot in SA? Move on to a wonderful standard of living like you lot in SA?
    Does the fact that the US debt turns over on a daily, weekly monthly and annual basis bother you lot?
    Does the fact that the US debt is paid off on a regular basis bother you lot?
    Does the fact that the US debt is a sought after investment vehicle by the developed world bother you lot?
    Poor stephen......always a bridesmaid and never a bride.

    So who is lying stephen about relations.....Astori or tinman from argentina that said it is the best they ever have been?

    May 10th, 2013 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I remember back in the 90s when we were paying down our debt that there was quite a bit of panic in the financial community since so many banks, insurance companies, SLG, Fed, Foreign Gov't, Bond funds, Pension funds etc are required by statute to invest in Treasuries and since there were going to be less of them people thought they would get bid up really high.
    The Fed also tried to get rid of the 30yr bond but so much of the worlds contracts are based on that rate they just couldn't do it.

    I think Stevie is just too stupid to understand how the world's finances work. I have better luck teaching my cat economics than the pretend Uruguayan.

    May 10th, 2013 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rylang23

    @ 140 & 141....

    You both will be seeing (possibly very soon) the heavy price of the financial policies of the US of these past 30 years. The US game of endlessly growing debt, that the good Captain lays out, has no end game. There will be a severe cost to having no exit strategy.

    BTW Captain.... the standard of living here is excellent, and better in many ways. I am quite comfortable and content with life in Uruguay. I lived almost the same way in the US (in a bio-construction home I built, off-grid, out in the countryside, fresh water, clean air - until Fukushima - great food, and pristine ocean beaches 30 km. away. What's to not like? However, it will be no fun to be living in the US as she slides into Third World status. Very few people there know how to live, or shall I say “survive”, without the current absurdly over-consumptive way of life there. Twill be interesting for you Yankeeboy and Poppy. Buena suerte!

    May 10th, 2013 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Poppy
    No, nothing of that you mention bothers me. At all.
    If you reckon it's sustainable, feel free to continue down that path, it will still not bother me.
    As for Astori and Timmerman, I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    yanqui
    That is because you've had success in teching your cat economics, mainly because your cat doesn't question what you say.
    Fact is, you will have more success in teaching any cat about economics than any human being...

    May 10th, 2013 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    142 rylang23 (#) You'll be long dead before the USA “slides into 3rd world status” A perfect example of is Argentina it took 3 generation to move from 1st world to 3rd World and the USA is much richer, more productive and the world's only super power. What will it take us 300 yrs? 500yrs?
    You seem to forget we can take whatever we need or want from any country in the world. If they won't trade we can topple the gov't and put in a pliant gov't.
    Do you know any history?
    Is everyone in Uruguay as dumb as in Argentina?
    Is there something in the water that kills brain cells?

    May 10th, 2013 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @144yankeeboy

    rylang23 is no longer 'off the grid' - he can be traced, now

    May 10th, 2013 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    How could he be off the grid if he posts on a web site?
    Not a bright guy

    May 10th, 2013 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rylang23

    You guys are so funny, but clearly clueless. Let's check in in a few years and see how your perspective works out.

    Yankeeboy, the days of US “exceptionalism” and hegemony are coming to a screeching halt, and you exemplify the arrogance of that recent history. You will be stunned into silence as it becomes apparent to you. Better get ready!

    Troy... my off-grid life is returning very soon. Already have the system and the property chosen. Anything else about me that you want to challenge?

    BTW guys, I lived off-grid for twelve years and had internet every day. No conflict there. What are you thinking?

    May 10th, 2013 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    147. Why don't you show me some proof for your OPINIONS and please leave off the nutty conspiracy web site your kind loves to post.

    You are obviously not the brightest bulb on the tree so this should be fun.

    Ready when you are...

    May 10th, 2013 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    144 yankeeboy
    “Is everyone in Uruguay as dumb as in Argentina?”

    Only me according to Stevie, all the commies are fabulous people!

    I do like it here though despite the government who did make a good start but then slid back into the good old commie ways.

    Vasquez will be back soon and I was hopeful of him: he did ask the USA to help against AR after all, but it turns out he is rabidly anti-abortion as if it's anything to do with him what the woman wants to do with her own body.

    May 10th, 2013 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    149. Chris you are right thinking so I imagine you have not yet drank enough of the TupaKoolAid.
    It is too bad the Military didn't completely eradicate that vermin when they had the chance.
    Maybe someday though
    maybe someday

    May 10th, 2013 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    “No, nothing of that you mention bothers me. At all”

    Therein is you lot problem, you think thngs are saida to effect you. You don't matter enough for anyone here to try to effect your thinking. You cognitive skils are minimal so if the the attept was to effect your thinking.....a Pavlovian appraoch would be more suited for you.

    May 10th, 2013 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @147 rylang23

    “Troy... my off-grid life is returning very soon. Already have the system and the property chosen. Anything else about me that you want to challenge?

    BTW guys, I lived off-grid for twelve years and had internet every day. No conflict there. What are you thinking?”

    rylang23

    I was not aware that I was “challenging” anything or anybody.

    Is there a reason you live “off grid”?

    If you moved from the US West Coast after living there off-grid because of airborne radiation from Japan, are you not concerned about the River Plate's contaminated waters and pollution from Argentina affecting the health of Uruguay residents?

    May 10th, 2013 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I never thought Uruguay was especially clean. I am not sure I would trust the water with all of the chemical run offs from the farms.

    Rylang23 Is living off the grid, by which you mean supplying your own
    electricity by choice or because Uruguay doesn't supply the hinterlands with electricity 24 hrs a day so it is a necessity?
    Is it possible to keep yourself clean there? I guess you can wash with cold water but it so 3rd worldy.

    May 10th, 2013 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    Send all the Dan Mitriones you wish.
    We'll send them back just like we did with the first one.

    ;)

    Poppy
    Why do you ask me if it bothers me when you don't care if it doesn't?
    Or did you expect me to answer for the whole country?

    May 10th, 2013 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Tsk Tsk those that your military in charge not ours. I'm sure ours would have done the job properly.

    May 10th, 2013 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    Yankeeboy @ 155
    “Tsk Tsk those that your military in charge not ours. I'm sure ours would have done the job properly.”
    Do you really believe the US miliary would massively rise up against the US Constitution they swore to uphold? You're out of your mind.
    That's what most of the Uruguayan military did, and the fact that they had put down the Tupamaros' terrorist attacks on a series of democratic and legal governments was no excuse.
    Don't allow yourself to get worked up by Guzz ... er ... Stevie's remarks about Dan Mitrione. We've heard this remark (only slightly dafter than yours)before, from Guzz. Guss ... er ... Stevie is not in touch with ordinary Uruguayan citizens; in fact he probably doesn't even know any. He is best ignored.

    May 10th, 2013 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Stephen you've been swinging in your jungles for too long if you do not know what rhetoric is. And no.....I expect you to answer for the minority as you typically do.

    May 11th, 2013 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    yanqui
    Mitrione tried to do his job properly.
    We just did our better...

    ynsere
    Lets go through this again.
    Liber Arce was murdered 1968.
    What did the Tupas do prior to that, you say?
    What about the cañeros and the starvation of the “interior”?
    Is that the democracy you are referring to?
    Nunca mas!

    Poppy
    So it was rhetoric questions where all the answers were “No, it doesn't bother me”?

    ok...

    May 11th, 2013 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Stevie, Since your family had to flee to Europe I would say the Military did it's job of cleaning the vermin out of Uruguay
    It is too bad they didn't finish the job though
    Maybe soon
    there is plenty of time

    May 11th, 2013 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    The concern the military had with the ones that fled is that their nits grow into lice, as Stephen has demonstrated.

    May 11th, 2013 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Yep, a good old fashioned cleansing would have help all 3 of those countries. The only one that did it right was Chile.

    All 3 of the ex commie terrorists are ruining their countries hopefully they'll all be “retired” shortly.

    May 11th, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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