MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK ambassador praises Chilean judicial system in case involving death of British citizen in 1973
This week a Chilean court found two retired naval officers guilty in connection with the kidnapping, torture and murder of a Chilean-British citizen in September 1973; UK Ambassador Jon Benjamin made a statement about the verdicts in trial of those accused. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“UK ambassador praises Chilean judicial system in case involving death of British citizen in 1973”
May 11th, 2013 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK also praised his killer, Pinochet.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment246517: It far worse than praise Pinochet. It refused to extradite Pinochet to Spain for trial!
May 11th, 2013 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Eichman, Mengele and god knows who else!
May 11th, 2013 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment246525: Neither Eichman or Mengele were in Chile. I think you have been misinformed.
May 11th, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Misinformed? Think not? but thank you anyway Hypocritia.
May 11th, 2013 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment246535: Then maybe you can supply details of Eichman's an Mengele's time in Chile?
May 11th, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe you would like to look up the meaning of,
May 11th, 2013 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hypocrisy and sarcasm.
@1,2,4,6. Yep, Eichmann spent his time in nazi heaven, argieland. Whilst Mengele also spent time in Brazil. Two lots of nazi sympathisers. And who knows how many more? How many latino countries tell the truth? Who can we trust? Certainly no-one from latin america.
May 11th, 2013 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
May 11th, 2013 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here we can see Ambassador Jon Benjamin’s former boss ”supporting the Woodward family during their search for justice, and in their determination to arrive at the truth”………………
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2013/04/508227.jpg
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment246542: No need. British Ambassador Jon Benjamin has adequately defined hypocrisy and sarcasm when he said, ““We firmly believe in the fundamental rights of human beings...” after allowing Pinochet to escape justice. In fact the meaning of both words is now defined as, simply, “British”.
May 11th, 2013 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(10) Hepatia
May 11th, 2013 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact the meaning of both words (hypocrisy and sarcasm) has, since the reign of HenryVIII and his “Family Values” been simply defined as ..... “English”.
@ 2 Hepatia.....................
May 12th, 2013 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0It would interest you to know that General Pinochet never committed any crimes in Spain.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment246601: And?
May 12th, 2013 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@13 Hepatia ........................
May 12th, 2013 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are referring your post to me then I would say this to you. Why should a sovereign nation surrender its legal system to another (Spain). Whether the old man committed crimes or not they were not done in Spain, so those Spaniards should stay out of things that allegedly happened in Chile where they have no jurisdiction.
Eichmann, Mengele and god knows who else, fascism, torture, murder and disappearances and they wonder why no sensible person would choose
May 12th, 2013 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0to live under such a system!
A timeline of ENGLISH HYPOCRISY:
May 12th, 2013 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0In 1998, Pinochet travelled to the UNITED KINGDOM for medical treatment.
There, he was arrested under an international warrant issued by judge Baltasar Garzón of Spain.
The charges included 94 counts of torture of Spanish citizens and the 1975 assassination of Spanish diplomat Carmelo Soria.
There was a hard-fought legal battle in the House of Lords, the then highest court of the United Kingdom.
Pinochet claimed immunity from prosecution.....
This was rejected, as THE LORDS DECREED THAT some international crimes, such as TORTURE, COULD NOT BE PROTECTED BY FORMER HEAD-OF-STATE IMMUNITY.
THE OUTCOME WAS THAT EXTRADITION COULD PROCEED.
In April 1999, former UK P.M. MARGARET THATCHER and former US President George H. W. Bush CALLED UPON THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT TO RELEASE PINOCHET.
On the other hand, the UNHCHR hailed the Lords' ruling, declaring that it was a clear endorsement that TORTURE IS AN INTERNATIONAL CRIME SUBJECT TO UNIVERSAL JURISDICTION.
There were then questions about Pinochet's allegedly fragile health.
After medical tests, THE HOME SECRETARY JACK STRAW RULED in January 2000 THAT HE SHOULD NOT BE EXTRADITED.
This triggered the Belgian government, along with six human rights groups, including Amnesty International, to depose a complaint against Straw's decision before the International Court of Justice.
(Belgium, as well as France and Switzerland, had deposed extradition requests in the wake of Spain's demand)
Despite the protests of legal and medical experts from several countries, STRAW FINALLY RULED, in March 2000, TO SET PINOCHET FREE AND AUTHORIZE HIS RETURN TO CHILE.
On 3 March 2000, Pinochet returned to Chile….
HIS FIRST ACT WHEN LANDING WAS TO TRIUMPHANTLY STAND UP FROM HIS WHEELCHAIR TO ACCLAIM HIS SUPPORTERS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment_and_arrest_of_Augusto_Pinochet#Timeline
The answer to my post is simple, most of their posters on here do not live there.
May 12th, 2013 - 07:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0America, Canada, UK, Holland, Germany, Scandinavia that is where they spout their pro Argentine anti British rhetoric from. The comfort and safety of someone else's country.
What is more they do not even have the moral courage to admit it.
Now that is what I call Hypocrisy.
Just a little “REMINDER” of how the “Military Mentality” used to work in South America…..:
May 12th, 2013 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0”It seems to me that one of the reasons for the mission was to set a drastic precedent in order to terrorize the presumed willingness of the Chilean people to fight back.
But without any doubt, it was also intended to instill fear and terror among the commanders.
To prevent any military personnel, down to lowest ranking officers, from taking a false step: This could happen to you” *
*(Oleguer Benaventes Bustos, second in command at the Talca Regiment, Chile.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravan_of_Death#The_death_squad
Nunca Más…
El Think.
Used to work in South America?
May 12th, 2013 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Problem solved is it?
Never see the military involved in the democratic process any more, do you?
Let's see, when did we last see a south American politician surrounded by generals pledging military support?
Venezuala ring any bells does it, think? and not so very long ago either.
TWIMC
May 12th, 2013 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0And here we can see Ambassador Jon Benjamin’s former boss doing her utmost in her search for justice for tortured Dr. Sheila Cassidy, Cranwell, Lincolnshire, England.
http://media.salon.com/2013/04/thatcher_pinochet.jpg
The Pinochet regime was engineered entirely by the Nixon government. Your Argentine aggression caused the UK to find support where she could. Much like the Allies where aligned with Stalin against Hitler. THe irony of Jack Straw exercising his prerogative in the manner, given that the the Chilean regime would have killed a socialist like him.
May 12th, 2013 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
May 12th, 2013 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Father MICHAEL WOODWARD was NOT the only British Subject to fall victim of Lady Thatcher’s Chilean “Best-Buddy”……
WILLIAM BEAUSIRE a British businessman with no political interests was abducted by Chilean secret police in Buenos Aires in November 1974, while on his way to the UK from Santiago. They took him back to Chile. He had committed no crime. They simply wanted to extract information from him. His sister was a friend of a nephew of deposed president Salvador Allende. For the next seven months William Beausire was horribly tortured. We know from witnesses that electrodes were attached to his genitals and forced into his rectum. They suspended him for hours from a wall by his arms. William Beausire was last seen alive on 2nd July 1975. He was being escorted from a torture centre in Santiago. His body has never been found.
English SHEILA CASSIDY worked as a surgeon at a hospital in Santiago. A priest asked her and she agreed to treat an injured person on the run from the police. One week later Doctor Cassidy was arrested. She was stripped. Electrodes were applied to her body and inserted into her vagina. Her torture lasted five weeks…….
Two Englishmen killed and one Englishwoman gallantly tortured for five weeks……
Pinochet should, indeed, NOT been deported to Spain….
He should have been brought to justice in a British Court!
Hypocrisy anybody?
(6) Hepatia
Don’t be soooo fast in dismissing the presence, until very recently, of some historical figures of the Third Reich in the Land of my Kuchen Munching Geschwister on the other side of the Andes….. ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonia_Dignidad#Villa_Baviera_era
I cannot find a better example of ignorance than the group of several postings here on this page. “The Pinochet regime was engineered entirely by the Nixon government”.
May 12th, 2013 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have lived through the dark days of the UP, the military government, followed by the plebiscite and finally through 5 fully free democratic presidential elections. You can't understand the truth by studying the tragedy on the Internet. You had to have lived it.
When I studied and lived in the United States, I never got over their incredibly unbelievable ignorance about South America. Especially regarding my country.
Then again, I have to defend them as I discovered later in life my ignorance as well... And I had no excuse. (Yes, I'm pro-American, but ask any of them what's the capital of Canada. None seems to know....)
Reality Check's sarcasm I appreciate as the military government of Argentina committed at least 4 times as many murders compared to Chile. “he who is without sin should cast the first stone”. There is without doubt crimes were committed, but I think a large percentage are exaggerated or even false. ( It still does not justify the torture and executions that took place. The Valech Report is BS)
And yes, human rights were unforgettably violated until the early 80s, but let's not forget the reason why the majority of Chileans supported the takeover in 1973.
THINK, I actually agree with some of your commentary, although perhaps some of it is distorted... but kindly explain why in 2013 the Chilean terrorist Sergio Galvarino Apablaza, is still being harbored by your President? The excuse?
And for the record, yes I supported General Pinochet. I was very saddened about the revelations regarding the extent of human rights abuses by the military government and was disappointed about the Riggs Bank scandal.
Saying that, I still strongly believe that he saved our country from a worse fate than what has happened to Venezuela. Under Allende, we were destined for being another Cuba.
“Shilean Momio” bashing day…
May 12th, 2013 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anybody out there?
Mr. Manrod?
Mr. Chicureo?
Mr. Condorito?
Mr. Sergio Vega?
Mr. Chilean Perspective?
What this weá ???:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d75820f8-b1b2-11e2-b324-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2T574rg7W
Weren’t you supposed to be the hoyo del queque…..???
Good morning Think.
May 12th, 2013 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bottles of very good Argentinian Champagne are being chilled as I write.., (and yes childen, that's what we call sparkling wine from South America.)
I'll let a leftist bash Michelle this morning:
http://www.santiagotimes.cl/opinion/editorial/26102-the-illusion-of-participation-in-chiles-presidential-elections
If I was 18 again, I'd vote for MEO. Now more slightly aged and without much passion, I'll vote for Allamand.
Saying that, even the right is accepting the eventual success of Michelle without much doubt.
It will be interesting how her administration handles the problems we face here with energy projects started by Lagos and herself which have not been resolved by the current administration. Education and health are very easy by raising taxes and spending more (Which have been already partially accomplished by Piñera), but let's see how she handles the rest... The wheel turns as they say....
And yes, the Chilean census is about as accurate as the Argentinian official economic statistics... What stupidity!
G’day, Mr. Chicureo.....
May 12th, 2013 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To my dismay, I just discovered that those Bloody Capitalists from the Financial Times want money for their bloody link to work…
No sweat my Shilean Geschwisterchen…....... Just Google the following:
“Scandals pile up on Chile’s government after statistical”
Click on the first link……………..………. and Voilá!
Long live the FREEdom of Information :-)))
PS:
Mr. Chicureo…
Good article… Your “General” did a good job with that Cuckoo's Egg…
The “Binominal System” a Communist European General’s creation; implemented by a Fascist End of the World General with the sole purpose of skewing the democratic process….
Not much place in your Country’s political system for a ”Normal” person.
Or in mine…......
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment246612: Pinochet was arrested in the UK, a European country, on the authority of a Spanish warrant, Spain being another European country. Chile, and Chilean sovereignty was not involved. Why you think it was is not clear. Is it your contention that Chilean sovereignty extends to Europe?
May 12th, 2013 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(27) Hepatia
May 12th, 2013 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May I add.....
Both Countries, the UK and Spain being members of the European Union....
Both Countries sharing the same European Extradiction Legislation.....
Same European Extradiction Legislation being used today against Julian Assange...
English hypocrisy anyone?
Nope, Assange was held under a European Arrest warrant, issued by Sweden for an alleged offence that occurred in. Sweden. No such thing existed then at the time of Pinochets visit. Here's another thing to think about think, neither did the Human Rights Act. I fine piece of legislation, which if you research, you will find is usually employed by convicted criminals and terrorists to great affect.
May 12th, 2013 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sometimes = some people can be to honest for their own good,
May 12th, 2013 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After all was it not a wise man who said=
[Hypocrisy and sarcasm. is good for the sole]
[ in small doses ]
Yet sometimes being honest can get you hung..??
Just a thought..
.
What if ex-president Clinton was arrested while traveling in Egypt, an Islamic nation, on the authority of a Sudan warrant? As Somalia was attacked by the US navy during his administration without a declaration of hostilities...
May 12th, 2013 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...Clinton as all former American presidents, traveling under diplomatic immunity, and Egypt claiming American sovereignty was not involved.
Why do you think diplomatic immunity exists?
To paraphrase Benjamin Frankline: #27, you are so well informed of facts, you probably could name a horse in nine languages; but bought a cow instead to ride on. Establishing that, what's your excuse THINK?
Saying that, I think Assange was set up by the USA and Sweden cooperated. The moment he's under Swedish authorities custody, I suspect he'll be on an all expenses vacation in Cuba. (The part on a long term lease with the American government) ...oh and yes, #27, he doesn't have diplomatic immunity...
TWIMC
May 12th, 2013 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“... the House of Lords, the then highest court of the United Kingdom, DECREED THAT TORTURE, COULD NOT BE PROTECTED BY FORMER HEAD-OF-STATE IMMUNITY...... THE OUTCOME WAS THAT EXTRADITION COULD PROCEED.”
.....Turnip at (29) seems not to agree.......
First a correction. Sudan extraditing Clinton due to an attack on Sudan...
May 12th, 2013 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THINK: Please kindly explain to our educated and not so well educated readers why in 2013 the Chilean terrorist Sergio Galvarino Apablaza, is still being harbored by your President? (I did ask please)
Also, regarding your post on #26, you may criticize my general's political constitution, but do you really believe that by winning a plurality of 36.2 percent is fair to lead a country into destruction, because that's what Dr. Allende won... Q
Reality Check and Briton: Bravo!
(31) Chicureo
May 12th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You present us wit following constructed example…:
”What if ex-president Clinton was arrested while traveling in Egypt, an Islamic nation, on the authority of a Sudan warrant....?
Why do you think diplomatic immunity exists....?
what's your excuse THINK....?”
My constructed example would be…:
What if an obscure US Army general killed President Obama and took over the Government to protect the USA from the Black Muslim Communist World Conspiracy?
What if that same obscure US Army general deported ~20 million, tortured ~5 million and killed ~½ million Americans, including Bruce Springsteen and Lady Gaga?
What if that very same obscure US Army general killed and tortured hundreds of citizens from about 60 other Countries?
Do you ”Think” this obscure US Army general would get much “Diplomatic Immunity” many places ?
Ok, I just poured a dram into my favorite glass and am carefully considering the “what if crimes” suggested...
May 12th, 2013 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Killing Bruce Springsteen? There is no excuse for the scoundrel...
Don't waste your time in the international courts. The CIA, the Mossad, MI-6 and DGSE should hunt him down... On second thought, use a cruise missle armed with a nuclear payload...
23 Chicureo
May 12th, 2013 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Yes, I'm pro-American, but ask any of them what's the capital of Canada. None seems to know....)
Canada? Ask them what's the capital of their own country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
#36 Marcos Alejandro
May 12th, 2013 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sorry, I did't pay attention to the blonde beauty while she was speaking...
...without insulting anyone and with all respect, the beauty contestants from South Carolina remind me of young porteñas... They're gorgeous to look at until they start speaking... ...only being humorous... ...they really can be beautiful.
Since THINK seems to have difficulty responding to a simple question, perhaps you Marcos Alejandro can kindly explain why the Chilean terrorist Sergio Galvarino Apablaza, is still being harbored by your President?
I assume THINK is avoiding defending the scoundrel.
37 Chicureo
May 12th, 2013 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know if Mr. Apablaza is innocent or not, specially after reading who some of the accusers are.
Interesting article
“The genocidal died peacefully at home, without being disturbed by the courts. With what face can the Chilean justice demand the extradition of Apablaza?”
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=114689
#38 Marcos A.
May 12th, 2013 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for the post, although I completely disagree with “ No hay razón alguna, por lo tanto, para hacerlo en el caso de Galvarino Apablaza”, but I do recognize you answered the question too seeming difficult for THINK to address.
Have a nice evening.
This is very interesting. The article should also mention the case of John/Jack Hormon, a US citizen, who came very close to the truth about the “intervention” of the Nixon government in the Allende coup in 1973. (Make the economy scream) . He probably paid with his life for this
May 13th, 2013 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hormon was killed by the military and buried in wall. There was also a film about this called MISSING with Jack Lemon and Sissy Spacek.
There is also a small amount of space about the events in the book THE SOVEREIGN STATE (the secret history of ITT by the late Anthony Sampson). This company also played a part in the coup
What is not mentioned is the abuses committed by the junta on its own citizens such as tying an Indian to the rotor of a helicopter and whirling him around.
I have family over the border in Argentina and a Chilean contact. What Pinochet did was to bring good government to the country. Contrast the Chile of today with that of Argentina.
I am not defending Pinochet's actions against Chileans but how he successfully managed to maintain a dictatorship and introduce a free market economy - the reason Chile has the most stable economy in South America - is that he kept politics, the economy and the military separate.
May 13th, 2013 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think it is any big secret that the US meddled in Chilean politics. They had no right to do so but it was different times. Having spoken with many Chileans across the political spectrum, the idea that Allende's Marxist dream would have been successful in the long run carries little support.
Excuse my ignorance but didn't Pinochet save Chile from chaos. As I understand it he wiped out the dissenters and put his country on the road to freedom and prosperity. It's now a beacon of hope in SA, the rest of which seems to be headed for a distasterous totalitarian future like Russia and Eastern Europe used to be?
May 13th, 2013 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think, why do you live in the UK if you hate it so much?
@41
May 13th, 2013 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0This “political spectrum” you talk of - would it range all the way from the far right to the ultra far, Looney tunes, right?
When Pinochet was dumped about 40% of the population was living below the poverty line. During his administration Chile experienced the highest inflation it has ever experienced in its history. The economy was a mess during the junta years.
Successive democratic governments have worked hard to repair the damage done to the economy.
All the hypocrisy from the usual Argentine trolls but which country took its own citizens up in planes and dropped them in the estuary of the River Plate? Which country made a totally unprovoked armed invasion of a friendly country in April 1982 and then ignored a UN Security Council resolution to withdraw its troops.
May 13th, 2013 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which country suffered an ignominious defeat by the armed forces of that friendly nation and were obliged to surrender and withdraw with their 'tails between their legs“? Which country has become a ”pariah” nation, reneging on its debts and manipulating history and the truth in their shrill demands to be allowed to colonise a former friendly territory and its people?
The position adopted by the current UK ambassador is a far cry from that of the British government during the Thatcher years when it washed its hands of any criticism of Pinochet's regime. This seems to be a perennial feature of British diplomacy - to cover up for years and wait till 'things have died down' before raising/dealing with embarrassing issues. I fear the same attitude is taken now towards to revelations about the deaths under torture of Iraqis in British custody following the invasion of that country. Such atrocities reveal the sad truth behind the mythology of 'our heros', 'best armed forces in the world' etc, etc - all part of a puffed up arrogance of post-imperialism nostalgia and part of the agenda of 'punching above our weight'. Quite depressing really.
May 13th, 2013 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0@43 It was a little more complicated than you suggest.
May 13th, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Introducing the free market economy did cause considerable hardship, particularly with the middle-class for many years. Under Pinochet the poor did OK and the rich did very well. But it was a bitter pill they swallowed with an eye on future prosperity. That foundation was built on by subsequent democratic government - all pretty much centrist.
The vote to remove a military government and hold democratic elections was incredibly close. Pinochet believed that he would win because by that time the majority had better standards of living and feared going back to the turmoil of Allende's era and the early Pinochet years of economic change. They didn't like the oppressive government but, like most people, if they are doing OK they fear change. The Pinochet campaign focused on that fear. The opposition campaign boldly opted to run a campaign of hope for the future. They used the fact that people and the economy were well placed to take a step further to democracy. They could not have succeeded if the country and economy were still in a mess.
All credit should be given to the Chileans working hard and making the difficult changes that have made them secure and destined to be the first developed country of South America.
@45
May 13th, 2013 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and of course the Argetine military wasn't involved in the torture and murder of 3o,ooo Argentine civilians or war crimes against British forces in the Falklands war
i.e. the machine-gunning of survivors from a helicopter shot down over San Carlos, the murder of a British Officer coming forward under a white flag to accept the surrender at Goose Green, the depositing of thousands of unmarked and undocumented landmines etc.
No, of course, that wasn't the Argentine military - that was the Junta who absolutely nobody in Argentina supported.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment246715: Your hypothetical is not quite as hypothetical as you seem to think. Bush 43 has had to abandon trips to Europe in order to avoid possible arrest and indictment.
May 13th, 2013 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#47 Darragh
May 13th, 2013 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think your views are somewhat distorted.
It was the junta, NOT the military, that was responsible for the crimes against humanity as well as the war crimes committed against the imperialist invaders of the Islas Malvinas during the battle of Argentinian territory.
As the “junta” only refers to one in four of the Argentinian populace, that means only a measly ten million (give or take a few Italian native South Americans) were responsible for the torture and or murder of thirty thousand of their mostly of Italian native South American countrymen.
As far as the white flag incident, the fault clearly is a cultural misunderstanding by the British. As cadets, we were taught that the Argentines are incapable of losing (they prefer thinking at the worst that they came in second.) and always blame someone else for their problems... When you turn your back, they bury a stiletto into your liver and declare victory. If you don't turn your back, but instead stare them down (as we did in 1978*) they revert to whining and looking for someone else to attack. Especially a has been empire with a prime minister that carried a handbag.
*Yes Think, you would have won the naval battle, as you had an overwhelming material advantage over us, but we would have left your military with a serious nosebleed. Your air force was brillant and heroic, but your navy and army were pathetic cowards.
You Argentines at home and more to the point abroad, should look to your own history before you criticise others, because frankly, you have not set what I and let's face it, many people, would class as a good example.
May 13th, 2013 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lie to yourselves if you like, but frankly, you just make yourselves look stupid.
(49) Chicureo
May 13th, 2013 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Yes Think, you would have won..........................”
I say...:
Luckily........., wi'll never know, hermanito Allende la cordillera....
You say further...:
Your Navy, Army (and Air Force; N.A.) were pathetic cowards.....
I say....:
Pathetic and coward indeed............. As any Armed Farce who’s main combat training consisted in severing the hands of their troubadours, murdering their young priests and quartering alive their defenseless, tied down working compatriots with their glorious corvos........
Chicureo.
May 13th, 2013 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing heroic about shooting fish in a barrel. The RN payed the price for landing the ground forces.
While I am at it, I have read your posts as a former Chilean Naval Officer and having read the posts of that so called RN commander, I would have considered it an honour to have served under you anywhere and any day. If you are a true example of Chilean officer, there's no fucking way they would have beaten you.
Saludo.
Bet think is going to love this and as for Dovershite, call yorself an officer, you would do well to remember who the fuck was fighting for you!!!
THINK
May 13th, 2013 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't remember any of the Argentine armed forces using the corvo. The officers had prettier swords though... As you'll note in my earlier post, Argentines use stilettos to stab people in the back. And yes, your countrymen were a lot more humane, as they drugged their victims after torture and dropped their bodies from helicopters over the water...
Reality Check,
Sincerely flattered by your kind comments, but you would have had a lot more enjoyment drinking with me and destroying your liver when I was a newly commissioned ensign. Things became boring and very tedious after that. Much of my realitivly short active service consisted of being sort of a “junior” at the Academy for Politic and Strategic Studies in Santiago, with weekly obligatory 2 hour lunches at the Club de La Union. I never served with A-2, but it really didn't take a genius to understand how close we came to defeat in with the Argentine navy in 1978.
Reality Check
Sincerely flattered by your kind comments, but you would have had a lot more enjoyment drinking with me and destroying your liver when I was a newly commissioned ensign. Things became boring and very tedious after that. Much of my short active service consisted of being sort of a “junior” at the Academy for Politic and Strategic Studies in Santiago, with weekly 2 hour lunches at the Club de La Union. I never served with A-2, but it really didn't take a genius to understand how close we came to defeat in with the Argentine navy in 1978.
(53) Chicureo
May 13th, 2013 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are too kind and humble in respect to my beloved Argentinean Armed Farces......
I “Think” both our Armed Farces were equals at the “humanity” level....
THINK:
May 13th, 2013 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now we meet in that strange point of agreement.
Atrocities were committed on both sides of the Andes.
Including the Marxist terrorists who were responsible for many deaths.
Saying that, there was no excuse for torture and summary execution.
@46
May 14th, 2013 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, it was the middle class that complained the loudest but it was the poor that suffered the most. That's not to say that Pinochet did not damage the middle-class. The truth is that the only beneficiaries were the rich.
Chile today owes everything to democracy an nothing to the he junta that almost destroyed it. It is typical of euro-trash like you to suggest otherwise.
#56
May 14th, 2013 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a perfect example of ignorance of those who deny to recognize that the Allende government DESTROYED the Chilean economy. (far more than CFK has accomplished with her country so far)
As I've mentioned before, I lived through the dark days of the UP, the military government, followed by the plebiscite and finally through 5 fully free democratic presidential elections. You can't understand the truth by studying the tragedy on the Internet. You had to have lived it.
The reason why we now have a strong economy and free democracy is especially due to the military government.
It is important not to forget that thanks to Dictator Pinochet, Chile was saved from a dictatorship of the proletariat.
May 14th, 2013 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although General Pinochet's dictatorship was too long, thank God he left after a plebiscite! Please, what other dictator has done that?
Also, General Francisco Franco saved Spain from its Red “Republic,” and from a forthcoming dictatorship of the proletariat. On top of that, Franco saved Spain from the Second World War NIGHTMARE.
Sometimes dictators can do good and positive things. N'est-ce pas?
Philippe
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/05/11/uk-ambassador-praises-chilean-judicial-system-in-case-involving-death-of-british-citizen-in-1973#comment247215: Plainly you do not believe in the rule of law.
May 15th, 2013 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0@57
May 15th, 2013 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0And I was flying down to Chile about every 6 weeks at the time of the coup and junta. And, unless you were q very high junta official I know a lot more about what occurred than you do!
Anyway, no need to believe me. Look at the figures.
#60
May 15th, 2013 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gosh, golly gee..
If I knew you had been visiting at the time, we could have invited you and your friend Hepatia to visit our national football stadium...
What by chance was the purpose of your regular visits? Bringing in supplies of AK47s?
And I truly think you know more than I do, as I was a bit young to be a member of he junta, but thanks for the kind flattery...
@61
May 16th, 2013 - 06:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not surprised that you were a kid and too young to understand anything at that time. That's the reason that you have such a distorted view now.
Even though the establishment of the junta was, nominally, in the US national interest at the time I thought that what was going on was indefensible. It never occurred to me that anybody would attempt to defend it. But here you are defending the indefensible.
If you go to Russia it will not be very long before you will run into someone who will praise the regime that existed under Stalin. But, of course, they are way too young to have lived under it themselves. They use the little knowledge they have of it to whitewash it - as you have with the junta.
I think you should take a look at the figures and the history.
#62
May 16th, 2013 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, I wasn't that young, but it's too sad that you didn't get a chance to visit our national football stadium...
Whatever the total numbers were, one more or one less would not matter much.
@63
May 17th, 2013 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you drunk? I think you should spend some time drying out.
The figures I was referring to were the economic numbers which will so you what a mess the junta made of the economy.
If only you had visited the national stadium after the peaceful presidential 1973 transition, we would not have this discussion now.
May 17th, 2013 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@65
May 18th, 2013 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0But we are not having a discussion now. I am instructing you to check the historical economic figures and you are staggering around like a drunken bum. I guess you are doing the best you can do. Too bad that it's not good enough.
Can any of the readers please explain to me why the Chilean economy works and that of Argentina flounders? Both countries were ruled by rather nasty juntas during the mid 70s to 83 in the case of Argentina and 90 in the case of Chile.
May 18th, 2013 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0According to a Chilean contact of mine Pinochet, although his government did some nasty things, brought good government to Chile. Some say it was because he kept politics and economics separate.
@67
May 19th, 2013 - 05:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0What makes you think that “the Chilean economy works and that of Argentina flounder”? Both economies are doing OK in the the circumstances. The difference between the two is the price of copper which increased I'm the 1990s and has stayed up ever since.
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