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Paraguay on Independence Day blasts Argentina and Brazil over “power resource exploitation”

Wednesday, May 15th 2013 - 21:59 UTC
Full article 42 comments

President Federico Franco said Paraguay has long cancelled its debts for the construction of two huge shared hydroelectric dams with its powerful neighbours and demanded Argentina pay for the surplus energy it receives and compensation for flooding Paraguayan territory. Read full article

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  • Chicureo

    Bravo Paraguay!
    Viva Presidente Franco!
    I really like the last paragraph of th article...

    May 15th, 2013 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Modern day colonialism!

    Shame Brazil.
    Shame Argentina.

    May 15th, 2013 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    First class article .Well done President Franco . We are free and proud of it . The last two paragraphs were so good . VIVA Paraguay .

    May 16th, 2013 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • TroLLey_to_Truth

    @2

    This from the citizen of a country who poaches anything with any talent fro m surrounding minuscule island nations and archipelagos, at will and desire, making those countries poorer and poorer by taking their scientists and sportsmen.

    PATHETIC

    May 16th, 2013 - 04:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    I wish Mujica was as gutsy as Franco!

    May 16th, 2013 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Shame an absolute shame. A disgusting example of 21st century colonialism and imperialism Nostrils. I can't believe you support this sort of exploitation of your fellow South American brothers.

    Careful, your hypocrisy is showing.

    May 16th, 2013 - 06:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Well done, Paraguay. Let's hope that Cartes has as much guts as Franco. Why not take these dam issues to the ICJ? Argieland doesn't like the ICJ. Actually, argieland is afraid of the ICJ. Afraid of what might come out.

    May 16th, 2013 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    The 19th century Paraguayan War (of the Triple Alliance) has left a legacy of distrust and a desire for an honourable recompense.

    Today's recompense centres not so much on the return of the 54,000 square miles of territory annexed by Argentina and Brasil, but around the distribution of hydroelectricity from the joint-border rivers.

    The problem for Paraguay is that the consensus of historical opinion is that the actual war was started by the Paraguayan Lopez attacking his neighbours. The truths of the reasons for this war - indeed most wars - are more complex.

    In modern times, Paraguay has been a land-locked backwater of underdevelopment, held in thrall by its surrounding neighbours.
    Its claims that it is being held back by the terms of the contracts of the two major hydroelectric schemes has some validity but, without ANY clout, Paraguay cannot alter this situation.

    It is not in ANY surrounding country's interests that Paraguay should be forever poverty-stricken, but long nationalistic 'memories' will continue to make all countries suffer, where more rational thought would give gain to everybody.

    May 16th, 2013 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mr Ed

    Good timing with the 70th anniversary of the Dambusters Raid tonight, let's hope any remaining Argentine Air Force Lancasters, bought from the UK post-WW2, can no longer threaten their neighbours!

    May 16th, 2013 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ManRod

    Congrats to Franco and the proud Paraguayan People... Dont let BRA and ARG continue fooling, bullying, abusing and humilliating you! In worst case, blow up the whole Thing up, if more than 95% of the electricity is being taken by Arg and Bra and they let you pay for it... let's see who would then really suffer it.

    May 16th, 2013 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    @10 Terrorist.

    May 16th, 2013 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    8 Geoffward2 . The real point is that Brazil continues to say that Paraguay owes them money and interests on the initial costs of the dam . In fact no money is owed , as a well known expert has just calculated . In fact the boot is on the other foot , Brazil has not paid the true value of energy used . In the case of Argentina they just do not pay money due on the Yacyreta dam . Always excuses , but no money !

    May 16th, 2013 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NEL

    We built this dam with our money, our workforce, and we had an agreement with the Paraguayan government at the time. So, just because it´s the independence day of a thing that they call Paraguay, the president wants to seem popular. Why do you need more money? Is it to sell more illegal cigarettes, more electronics and even more hemp to Brazil?
    If my country stops buying goods from you (Paraguay), you will probably have nothing to eat.
    I don’t give a f… for you Paraguay, but if you do, so come and get more money, more energy.
    You know who will lose this game, you might also lose this land that you call home.

    May 16th, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @13
    Oh dear, haha, where is Stevie and his usual shit about his brothers and sisters in South American unity!

    May 16th, 2013 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    13 Nel . How aggressive , you sound like Roussefs foreign policy advisor ! Who buys cigarettes , electronics and other articles ? Martians or Brazilians who find the prices reasonable ? Do you remember when you had to buy computers in Paraguay because , in your country , you were selling 18 th century stuff to protect your industry ? With reference to the building of the dam half was built by Paraguayans who got to the middle faster than you carnival lovers . This country gave away thousands of acres of arable land to be flooded by the dam .
    If we sell nothing to Brazil bad luck to Itapua bank , the biggest here , which finances the trade . Or Petrobras which supplies the petrol .Or your huge exports to this country .
    Your remarks remind me of a Mexican saying . In our case so far from God and so close to Brazil . You are all so friendly till , as you did , you show the knife !

    May 16th, 2013 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    #13 “I call that bold talk for a one eyed fat man!” I date myslef with that quote.

    Lose theor land they call a country.....is Argentina going to invade them? NEL.....all that fucking asslips kirchner bestowed upon your anus obviously has made you a very angry RG.....where's the love? NEL sounds like that incompetent thug known as Moreno

    May 16th, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Math

    I think it is fair buying energy for the fair price and Brazil does explore Paraguay in this subject. Also, remember that “the Carnival lovers” play a very important role in Paraguayan society and economy and without their productivity Paraguay would be much more dead than it already became. The fair thing should be for both countries ending the death threats for Brazilian comunity and trade in fair energy price.

    May 16th, 2013 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Define what determines a fair price?

    May 16th, 2013 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @10 Oooooh, look at the comment from Braless. So yes, I agree. Blow them up. The argie one first, please.
    @13 Oh, look. NELly the elephant. Let's analyse the comment. No indication of “country” of origin. That would make it argieland. All cowards.
    @15 You think it's Brazil? But Brazil already invaded. If you think it's Brazil, you need a law that says “foreigners” aren't allowed to own land.
    @17 Why is there a “Brazilian comunity” in Paraguay? That's “community”, by the way. Brazilians sneaking over the border? Brazilians keeping Paraguay poor so they can buy land cheaply?

    May 16th, 2013 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (15) Baxter

    You say...:
    “ Who buys cigarettes , electronics and other articles ? Martians or Brazilians who find the prices reasonable ?”

    I say...:
    That's the favourite argument of the Paraguayan Smuggler Elite and their Anglo Turnip Asociates, as yourself......

    Tell me........:
    What has happened during the last couple of weeks with the cheap Argentinean Peso?
    Ain't it right that any Paraguayan that can afford it, is crossing to Argentina to buy everything 30/50% cheaper than at home?
    And who is crying and whining to the Paraguayan government to close the border because of this “dangerous development”.......?
    The same Paraguayan Smuggler Elite and their Anglo Turnip associates that so staunchly defend the right of Brazilians and Argentineans to buy stuff at “reasonable prices” in Paraguay................ Thats who!

    Stop being such a pathetic hypocrite.

    May 16th, 2013 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NEL

    First of all I´m Brazilian, and I do love all the people from South America, I have nothing against the Paraguayans, but I hate these smugglers from Paraguay, they sell drugs, guns and all that crap that they have out there, and who pays the price for it? Brazilians of course, I don´t want to pay more for the electricity that we won, we are already paying a lot more than we´re supposed to. The government of Paraguay is dreaming, he´s a good exemple of the kind of Paraguayan that I don’t like, he owns one the biggest cigarette companies in Paraguay.
    Here in Brazil we have many saying about Paraguay too:
    Não compre lixo do Paraguai. Do not buy crap from Paraguay.
    Essa merda tinha de ser do Paraguai. That shit could only be from Paraguay.
    Como você pode fumar esses cigarros do Paraguai? How can you smoke these cigarettes from Paraguay?

    May 16th, 2013 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    21 NEL When Brazilians like you begin to use words like “ merda ” to describe Paraguayanas we just smile . Remembering the atrocities committed by Brazilians after the Triple Alliance . Even the Uruguaysns and Argentines were amazed . And just for the record you are paying just fifteen percent of the true vslue of the electricity you get from us .But , enough , I was taught that when people are reduced to insults they have , basically , lost the argument . I repeat - so far from God and so close to Brazil .

    May 16th, 2013 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Eduardo Orozco

    Now, that's rich. Brazil paid for 100% of that dam. Paraguay didn't invest a single cent on it. We built it FOR Paraguay and agreed to buy it FROM Paraguay. It was, literally, DONATED. And it's still one of Paraguay's main sources of income. Not to mention that both Brazil and Argentina had ALREADY cancelled Paraguay's foreign debt with them. What the f* is this clown complaining about? What have the US, European Union, Colombia, Chile or whatever countries whose boots he's licking EVER done to Paraguay?

    Absolutely nothing. At all. At any point of history.

    The only one losing by creating problems with Brazil and Argentina is Paraguay. For a change.

    May 16th, 2013 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Math

    @18 Price is defined by supply and demand. Now that you question me, I did some research about Itaipu and I found out some intereting info.
    http://interessenacional.uol.com.br/2012/05/a-outra-historia-de-itaipu/
    Itaipu seems to be Paraguayan Malvinas.

    @19 You sound like there is a conspiration. Brazilian government implanting people in Paraguay's land since the 60's! Maybe Evo Morales is implanting Bolivians in Brazil, too! The reality is that both Brazilians and Paraguayans are paying for irresponsible regimes of the past. If Brazilians migrated because of Itaipu, a lot of them would not have stayed if it wasn't for property titles Paraguay emited - enabling people to produce wealth and atract more and more immigrants (to work in jobs that the Paraguayan couldn't create). For their sins, some Brazilians have bought land without any contract, but who originally sold it is not around, only terrorists and bullies threatening inocent children in schools or Paraguayan government offices.

    May 16th, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    But you said a “fair price”. Now you are saying market price. If you are using markets to determine the price, that contradicts what you said about a fair price. Supply and demand can have prices going to either extreme.

    May 16th, 2013 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • RICO

    Don't expect Argentina to stop demanding very cent it believes it is owed. At the same time any amount due from it will be written down, peso-ified and eventually eaten away to nothing by inflation.

    Paraguay should stop acting like an imperial dictator by stopping arguing that Argentina should honour its obligations.

    May 16th, 2013 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NEL

    You are right 23 Eduardo Orozco.
    “The only one losing by creating problems with Brazil and Argentina is Paraguay.”

    You´re also right 24 Math.

    Hey 22 Baxter.
    I used the world “MERDA” to describe the illegal thing coming from Paraguay to my country, I´d never disrespect the Paraguayan people because I love Agustín Barrios Mangoré and Berta Rojas two wonderful Paraguayans. And that war took place from 1864 until 1870, so that was ages ago. Why are you still crying like a little girl? Please be nice with you answer because “I was taught that when people are reduced to insults they have, basically, lost the argument.”
    A good tip:
    Paraguayans should read more about what happened, happens, and is happening in their country besides trying to get problems with the wrong countries, we are friends. We don’t want problems, but trust me, if Paraguay wants it, Paraguay will get it.

    May 16th, 2013 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    23 Eduardo Orozco . It seems I am touching a raw spot somewhere ! And the language . Just like all bullies , shout and insult ! At no point did I say that Brazil did not pay for the construction of the dam . Brazil needed the energy , and how , and wanted the dam at all costs . It supplies most of Sao Paulos electricity . The price Paraguay paid was the loss of thousands of acres of arable land .
    At this point Brazil is paying less than the market price . And continuous to insist that Paraguay owes interest . Whereas that has been paid in full as confirmed by a World Bank expert .
    If , and when , you reply do moderate your language . Those objective readers who follow this exchange may start to think that little Paraguay may be right ?

    May 16th, 2013 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Comment removed by the editor.

    May 17th, 2013 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    NEL @ 27

    “We don’t want problems, but trust me, if Paraguay wants it, Paraguay will get it”

    I'm inclined to agree with Chicureo @ 29. You sound more like an Argentine than a Brazilian. A big, bad, red-faced, patriotic Peronista, who'll run like mad if he sights the British!

    May 17th, 2013 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Math

    @25 One says how much money can spend and other says how much it wants, both negotiate until they get to a point of accordance: a price. Why isn't the market price the fair price? Humans don't have other way to measure the fair price, everyone must sacrifice something. If the international market energy falls to the extreme, Paraguay thinks it is fair to keep selling at the highest level? What does Brazil owe Paraguay? A moral debt for historic events? Oh, yes! I just FORGOT that! This was one of the arguments of the building of Itaipu is that Brazil owes them, so shut up every Brazilian complaing over the monstruous construction of Itaipu! I imagine the government saying this: “The war ended a long time ago, but we want to build a dam that will create jobs for your people, give you half of the royalties and buy the energy at the same price we pay within Brazil. We are sorry, but is it asking too much for the glorious Paraguay to lend the water since you won't need any investment of this kind for decades?”.

    @28 Now Brazil pays almost 3 times the price of the energy (disrespecting the contract!) AND royalties - which are a way of transfering the money directly for Paraguay's gov without deducting anything. Typical Paraguayan argument, “let's not count the royalties, shhh”
    As the article I posted mentions it, the main problem for Brazil was deciding between energy without Itaipu and energy with Itaipu, not “energy or no energy at all”. Don't make it sound like Brazil is desperate for glorious Paraguay save the day, Itaipu was and still is the simplest solution, but not the only one. ;P

    @29 It grows a lot because it already start from a depressing level of poverty. Brazil will not grow fast until it has a true opposition that can get PT out of the power. At this moment, government spending with itself is at absurd levels, higher than army, education, security, health and infrastructure together. Most corrupted point of the history and no signs of change. Dark times.

    May 17th, 2013 - 03:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NEL

    29 Chicureo is a “well educated” Paraguayan, as you can see. I won´t waste my time with you kid.

    Hi 30 ynsere.
    “I'm inclined to agree with Chicureo @ 29. You sound more like an Argentine than a Brazilian.”
    “A big, bad, red-faced, patriotic Peronista, who'll run like mad if he sights the British!”
    Why?
    I am not Peronista, but I do love Argentina very much, it´s a nice place I´ve been there few times.
    Why do you guys always take the conversation to Argentina or to the Falklands, England?
    Can only Argentineans get angry?
    And just to make sure, I have nothing against the UK (I´ve got many British friends), Argentina or the Falklands.
    My point here is the Paraguay, specifically its president. If Argentina and Brazil stop buying goods from Paraguay, they will be totally broke, not the president but its people.
    We Brazilians are very calm, but don´t mess with us, spatially to our pockets.

    May 17th, 2013 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Math

    “royalties - which are a way of transfering the money directly for Paraguay's gov without deducting anything”
    Sorry, it's “compensation for the use of energy” instead of royalties.

    @32 Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba and Paraguay all messed with tupiniquim pockets. Lula made Brazil a paradise for leftists: home and abroad, but
    If it copies the institutions of Chile (I envy this country!) people won't need Paraguayan “muamba” in a week. Hahahaha :)

    May 17th, 2013 - 04:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Fido Dido

    “Brazil has not paid the true value of energy used”
    Because they don't have too if you read the real history. The paraguan people were sold out by it's elite who were (and still are) under control by the Brazilian business elite.

    Clown Franco, a poor begger elite, is one of the problems why paraguay will always be a poor begger corrupt nation (title given by the neo con magazine veja). This is nothing more than hot hair because under Cartes, nothing is going to change.

    May 17th, 2013 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Paraguay, considering the remarks of the Brazilians and Argentineans on here, you would probably do better to start building bridges with the Pacific Alliance and stick to platitudes for Mercosur. Perhaps countries that haven't invaded, dismembered and exploited you will have less cultural baggage.

    May 17th, 2013 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    #31 “fair price” in SA usually means what the government determines is fair. Fair in a market economy is the price will continue to drop or rise until a shift in demand is seen. If the demand is high.....the price will continue to rise and vise versa. I only wanted to know if your concept of fair was determined by the government or market forces.

    May 17th, 2013 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Although I'm flattered to be described as a well educated Paraguayan, alas I mus confess I'm simply an average schooled Chilean.

    The observation “ If Argentina and Brazil stop buying goods from Paraguay, they will be totally broke, not the president but its people.” only proves my earlier analysis of just how ignorant some Argentinians are...

    May 17th, 2013 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    Good to see that the debate continuous ! We cannot all be right . If you can go into ABC Color ( Paraguay ) look at from page and page 15 . The Brazilian reply to Jeffrey Sach' s report that Paraguay done not owe money . It would seem that Paraguay must not publish information without the approval of Brazil . Empires over !

    May 17th, 2013 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cornelius

    since the treaty of tordesillas the brazilian are pirates oof the land their expansinisim policies never dies it conrinues they like to isolate south american inspairing a natinalistic atitude (South american as a whole) then exploit them at will

    May 17th, 2013 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baxter

    39 I take your point . One feels that Brazil never accepted a free and Spanish speaking Paraguay !

    May 17th, 2013 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ManRod

    11 Brasileiro @10 Terrorist.

    Why? It's theirs!
    By the way, you sound like an argentinian Kirchnerista.

    May 18th, 2013 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    See NEL? I'm not the only one who says you sound like an Argentine!

    May 18th, 2013 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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