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Lawmakers accuse Cristina Fernandez before a federal court of falsifying stats
Several Argentine lawmakers from opposition parties accused President Cristina Fernandez and Domestic Trade minister Guillermo Moreno of allegedly ‘falsifying” the figures published by the government’s official stats office Indec. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesOther than INDEC is there another organisation that believes in these inflation figures and uses them for business or future planning?
May 28th, 2013 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just one please!
There is over a billion dollars in debt that should have never been paid”, underlined Prat-Gay who is also an economist and a former president of the Argentine central bank..
May 28th, 2013 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't understand the logic, surely if they are underestimating the inflation rate they are saving millions of dollars in interest payments on the inflation linked bonds that they have to repay???
@2
May 28th, 2013 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Given the RG logic and normal modus operandi it is unlikely that they will ever repay the bonds to their full amount never mind any interest. So therefore there is no problem, for them that is.
More “good” news for CFK. Are they actually calling her a crook? Who would have thought? Mind you, look at Moreno's finger. Bet he wishes it was a gun!
May 28th, 2013 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 02. They have been over estimating GDP and underestimating Inflation.
May 28th, 2013 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the GDP linked bonds have been overpaid U$1B (seems light) and inflation under paid by est U$25B.
It will take a generation to fix this mess. I hope they enjoyed their party over the weekend because it was their last hurrah.
Well, I wonder who's next on the list to be “democratised”?
May 28th, 2013 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0♪♪ “The Heat is........on” ♪♪
May 28th, 2013 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0some final hurrah, according to reports nearly US$ 5 million was spent on the party and AFIP didn't approve some of the things like lighting & sound...
May 28th, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5
May 28th, 2013 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thks for the clarification....... first time I´ve heard of GDP linked bonds
I bet a lot of government cronies bought these in 2005 & 2010 since they seem to be the only ones being paid....... & overpaid at that!!!
The GDP bonds payout somewhere over a 3% growth rate and that is why their GDP growth is... wait for it... wait for it... 2.8% now.
May 28th, 2013 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So they still are “showing” decent growth but don't have to pay anyone.
Filthy liars
They've really been in recession since Nov 2011
@8
May 28th, 2013 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But someone did approve Fito Paez. That guy can't sing for sh1t...
@11
May 28th, 2013 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still way better singer than Morrisey or Chris Martin.
Toby, I think it is sad you always feel so inferior. You need to see a shrink.
May 28th, 2013 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Morrisey seems to be a hit in Latam, and Chris Martin worldwide.
May 28th, 2013 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Good to see you have a sene of humour today....
May 28th, 2013 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13
May 28th, 2013 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is your problem now? The only one inferior here is you, getting offended when they criticize your country.
@14
English language music is worthless, exactly because it is in English.
It's like Italian food, everyone eats it because it's “there”. English music is everywhere, but not because it is any good, just because people are force-fed that and are too lazy or ignorant to search good artists in other languages.
Had Chris Martin sung in French or German, he would still be playing at some back alley red-light district in Hamburg or Antwerp.
that would be the opinion of trolley dolly not the whole of Latam..
May 28th, 2013 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you hate english speakers we get it... so logic should tell you, not to post on here no more ! considering it clearly states to only write in english...
loser !
You are oh so wrong. I love the English language, and it's huge vocabulary. I have spent months learning English vocabulary.
May 28th, 2013 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You just can't stand the truth. The reality is most English language music is drivel. And English artists are famous because of the collusion of recording industry and marketers to prop them up, NOT because they are any better than artists in other languages.
If you were forced to listen to music only in Turkish language, you would think a lot of it is great. If you did not have ready access to English artists, you would think they suck because you have never “heard” of them.
That is typical conditioning psychology. Monolinguals (i.e. English native speakers), think there is no good music outside English language singers because they don't hear it in the radio or have a hard time finding them.
Like I said it's like Italian food, it's everywhere and you grew up with it, so everyone thinks it is amazing.
If you had been raised on Camel milk you would think it is great too.
This is not rocket science, it is basic principles of social behavior. Most people love vanilla ice cream.. does it make it “the best”?
@16
May 28th, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stick up a link of your favourite Argentine artist and we can compare it to the best of British Nostril.
I am sure that Queen, Pink Floyd, Elton John, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Adele, Oasis, led Zeppelin, dire Straits..eyc etc will be quaking in their shoes at the best of Argieness....
when will you get it Nostril...Argentina aren't any good at anything. Unless lying, cheating, stealing and corruption count...oh yes and surrendering and not taking responsibility.
We are still waiting for a single contribution made by an Argentine to humanity, anything at all...NOTHING!
I wonder what they are going to tell the IMF in September. At that point the choices facing Kirchnerism ( for lack of a better term ) are going to be both limited and crystal clear and their motives as well. There will be now where left to hide. You can pass all kinds of laws in your own country, lie with impunity to the same people who trusted you with their vote but if you continue to lie to the IMF, who if Brazil invaded their perverse southern neighbours ( after Argentina inevitably declares Brazil is in fact Argentinian territory and will forthwith be nationalised - you thought we had forgotten about you Vale?! ) would probably just sigh amd murmur ' it's probably for the best', they will no longer lend you money. And if that appeals court rules in favour of that wretched Judge Griesa no-one will lend you money. Madam President, you have adorable dogs, I'm glad someone loves them, it's a shame she loves them more than her own citizens.
May 28th, 2013 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This sort of thing is quite common in Banana Republics.
May 28th, 2013 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0gosh, surprise, surprise... not.
May 28th, 2013 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Kirchners & Cronies are a bunch of corrupt lying self-serving fascist pigs with eyes for nothing other than extending their personal feeding troughs at anybody's expense - other than their own.
And tobi boi delatches from is mommas nipple suckling her creamy whote lactose juice, just long enought to make an attept to re-direct and divert attention away for that fact that even now, lawmakers are calling her a liar. He must want to run back to the comfort of his momma's nipple knowing her slope is getting steeper and empties into a pool of mako's.
May 28th, 2013 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell the executioner........13 bites on a hangmans noose.
Lies, lies and more lies. It's amazing the grip they have on propaganda, Goebels would have been proud of them. And, in their trolls minds lies now extends to musical prowess. Wonder if the Government could put together a musical fart ensemble?
May 28th, 2013 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Several Argentine lawmakers from opposition parties accused President Cristina Fernandez and Domestic Trade minister Guillermo Moreno of allegedly ‘falsifying” the figures published by the government’s official stats office Indec”
May 28th, 2013 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really???
You mean those “Official” inflation figures were false all along??
Wow.... who would have guessed it.............
Is this a strategy by the opposition to directly attack the “Don't Speak Math to Power Law” (now that's a double entendre at the very least) by forcing discovery in court? IIRC, they currently are the only people allowed via immunity to challenge the INDEC stats but in their current capacity it's really just one word against another (albeit with bullhockey detectors going off all around the INDEC numbers). In a court, however, would both sides actually have to show their work? Hopefully the judges passed college algebra.
May 28th, 2013 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
May 29th, 2013 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Monkey you disappoint me.....Eric Clapton...Steve Windward, Eric Burden, Rod Stewert., VAn Morrison, Spencer Davis Group, Fleetwood Mac.....more my flavor of English music..and...and and.....lol
May 29th, 2013 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@27....“The main influence that Soda Stereo received during their career was of British rock. Among the most influential artists for the band sound include The Beatles and solo works the same George Harrison , Paul McCartney and John Lennon , The Police , The Cure , Television , Talking Heads , Elvis Costello , David Bowie , XTC , The Specials , Squeeze , Pink Floyd and Queen (as seen in the tribute song ” Someday ”) ”
May 29th, 2013 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Toby
May 29th, 2013 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think Morrissey would have gone down well in BA, at least until he sang the line:
“And Hector was the first of the gang with a gun in his hand, and the first of the gang to die, oh my.”
Plus “Bigmouth Strikes Again” just before CDK's speech might have set the wrong tone.
29 the main influence of Cerati must have been sth with his origins and tango also
May 29th, 2013 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O2QQ3NMa54 or
Bajofondo El mareo con Gustavo Cerati............watch everything of Bajofondo too
@19
May 29th, 2013 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are brainwashed my dear monkey. There is no hope for you.
All those acts are “seminal” because... ? Media hype. That's all.
Kraftwerk was also seminal and get no credit. Os Mutantes / Caetano Veloso were also semina. No credit given. Edith Piaf was seminal, no credit. Los Jaivas were seminal, no credit.
(no credit in the English Language media)... why? You are articistically and intellectually incapable of listening to books in any other language.
And the same applies to books, sculpture, painting, etc. Only the English are the best.
I don't even have the need to bash you personally or your country/society because it is like feeling sorry for ants on a sidewalk not even realizing you are there.
In english for you monkey
May 29th, 2013 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0easy music www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPbcxK2M3vo
American curtain www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbPtOlykus
low back www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O2QQ3NMa54
Funny how the most popular radio stations in Arg play mostly English/American Music. Get in an Taxi and you'll hear English even though they can't speak it.
May 29th, 2013 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And stupid Toby thinks it is brainwashing from the civilized northern countries.
How very very sad
BTW I looked up some images of your neighborhood. It looks very much like where my maid used to live in Southern BA.
Serious question, do you consider your family to be middle class or poor?
Dealing with Monolinguals is more restraining than training dogs or elephants. At least these creatures have room for intellectual growth.
May 29th, 2013 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But when you speak one language and will never understand anything in another tongue, are never exposed to ANY foreign culture (music, authors, etc) whatsoever , and are told by your government and corporations you are the best, then the result is automatons like MonkeyMagic “oh but Pink Floyd, and this and that...”
It's truly remarkable he is in fact one of us, human. Because such a basic lack of curiosity to search outside your own culture , at least once in an average 78 year life-span... the Anglos are quite remarkable in the ubiquity of this trait. Worth studying, because this trait which served them so well in the age of Nationalism and Imperialism (19th and 20th century), will be their complete downfall in the Age of Information and globalization and cultural exchange (21st and 22nd centuries), where having at least a basic tact and understanding of other societies (but preferably skills to go with them), will make or break economies.
You have seen how the USA and UK have gone from top 4 spots in Education in the early 20th century to now something like 17th and 28th. That's just a preview...
They will be very poor societies by the end of this century, as all “provincial” and remote towns tend to be. But in the 21st century, the “remote towns” of the 19th and 20th are entire nations, because the world is the field of competition.
Toby the Troll just can´t accept the fact that he is trolling in the language of Shakespeare on the www invented by an Englishman
May 29th, 2013 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you hate the English so much, Don´t speak the language & Don´t use the www ........EVER!!!
It's obvious you Monolinguals can't talk one jot of criticism of anglo culture.
May 29th, 2013 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I troll in the language of Shakespeare solely for your benefit, not mine. I troll in 4 other languages, rest assured. Which is why some days you see me here, and then I'm gone for some more.
I don't have the restrained life you people have, confined to only this part of the internet (english).
@34
Radio stations around the world have lucrative contracts to play certain music. Since ”english' singers offer more money to play their songs than Italian, German, Russian, Japanese, etc... it's obvious they want to make a profit.
If tomorrow Qatar came along and payed radio stations around the world 1 trillion to play only Fanat Tambura music, that's what you will hear on your radio station.
99.9% of english artists have no talent whatsoever, period end of story.
Toby, You are such a pathetic little twit. You think Arg stations play English music because they get paid to play it. Are you seriously that retarded? Why would a USA promoter care about a piss ant station in barren Patagonia or Tibet for that matter. Our music is played all over the world because people prefer it and buy it.
May 29th, 2013 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is the way the market works
Crappy stuff doesn't get bought unless that is all there is to offer,
Plus you go on and on about mono linguists like speaking 4 languages is going to get you out of your slum.
Its not
Even the call centers are shutting down all over Arg. So what good is your stupid language degree going to do for you then?
Translate something for U$1page over the internet?
You can't eat too well on that.
BTW you didn't answer do you consider your family to be middle class or poor?
Also do you need a job at that McDonalds I would be happy to call the owner and let them know you'll be stopping by to fill out an application.
There is no free market for music. The truth is really rubbing you badly anglos. And yes, when agreements to promote an artist music are made, it includes entire “regions” (BMI Latin America, Universal Europe, etc, etc).
May 29th, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your music sucks, almost in its entirety precisely because it is so overplayed everywhere it allows 95% of people that have no business singing in the industry. It's like Italian food, just because someone has an italian sounding name does not make him/her a good pizza maker. Yet many Italians do take “advantage” of this fact and do open restaurants. And people “eat” (literally), the propaganda.
People do not prefer your music. They are force-fed your music which is different. Had they a choice, 95% of your music would dissapear overnight. Only the good artists (which you do have some I never have said you don't), would remain.
Sure if you wanna believe Justin Bieber is actually a better artist than Sono Nigam be my guest. I thank my stars I'm not you however.
Once again, all of you anglos are proving you actually believe anything that is not sung in English is “crap”.
And I repeat, you are like little ants around me. Totally oblivious of the reality just a few centimeters away, but that doesn't matter since an ant's entire world is what is immediately in front of their antennae.
Speaking of GREAT music........Black Sabbath & Megadeth coming to La Plata in October 2013, get your tickets before they sell out Toby!!!
May 29th, 2013 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can't imagine Sono Nigam selling out 'en el estadio único de La Plata'!!!
@39 Please explain exactly why the bands you listed are seminal from a musicological point of view. Specific references to tonality, use of harmonisation etc are required.
May 29th, 2013 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“”“”Toby, You are such a pathetic little twit. You think Arg stations play English music because they get paid to play it. Are you seriously that retarded?“”“”
May 29th, 2013 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0clearly, yes, s/he is.
“”“”, but that doesn't matter since an ant's entire world is what is immediately in front of their antennae.“”“”
Zoology wasnt your strong point.... obviously.
Your analogy is about as accurate as everything else you say i.e. not at all.
Yankee Boy, you are so INFORMATION-nutritious it's delicious. You are like Google. Just ran into the call center event in our own friend's experience.
May 29th, 2013 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trolley
May 29th, 2013 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You continue to highlight your ignorance of Britain and British culture and in doing so make a penis of yourself.
I can think of numerous times foreign language singles have topped the UK charts, sometimes they are fun like Gangnam style or Los Lobos, other times serious like Pavarotti or Monserrat Caballe.
To suggest the three tenors, Edith Piaf, or Italian opera isn't popular in the UK for example is just highlighting your total and utter pig ignorance AGAIN!
your words
“English language music is worthless because it's in English”
Renaissance art is all worthless as its full of Italian painters!!
All French restaurants are shit because their in France
TOTAL PIG IGNORANCE!!!
I challenged you to put up anything Argentine remotely good....nothing.
And I repeat, you are like little ants around me
May 29th, 2013 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mmmm
The jolly green giant lolol.
………………………………..
Still,
It looks like the black widow is about to be burnt lol.
.
Bottom line my language-atrophied anglos, is you know I am correct in the spirit of the argument.
May 29th, 2013 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know for a fact that if the Beatles had sung in French or German they would be at best icons in those countries, and that's about it, because the ENGLISH speakers such as yourselves would have never given them either the chance, the airtime, or the opportunity. Because you are closed, parochial folk.
By that I am not saying the Beatles are bad, in fact I keep insisting a lot of the groups some of you mentioned had good talent. THE POINT IS THAT HAD THESE GROUPS HAD AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE Russian or Japanese, they would never have been promoted the way they were.
I am also saying there are just as talented musicians in all those other countries, they just don't sing in English.
This happens in Spanish too. For DECADES, the only “pop” music people would listen to was Mexican bands, and then Argentine bands. Was it because they were any better than good bands from Colombia, Venezuela, Central America, Peru?
Not for the most part, they just got signed to bigger promoting deals and their markets are bigger. The English language market is huge so it forces others out, thus there is no “free” market.
Shakira would have been famous singing in Spanish, but became a superstar singing in English. Did her music improve when she learned English? No, actually on the contrary if you ask those that have followed her forever.
SO WHAT CHANGED?
And that example is the ultimate proof of my point.
@35
May 29th, 2013 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's quite funny Nostril, I read you appraisal of me @35 and laughed my arse off.
I have spent 11 of the past 20 years living in non-English speaking countries and would consider myself fluent in German, Afrikaans, Hindi and Vietnamese, and can also speak a little French, Thai and Swedish.
My wife is not British and her first language isn't English, and my children are only half British. I am perfectly capable of communicating with my fully bilingual children thanks.
See, you not very good with your pig ignorant racism are you.
so as far as not understanding cultures other than my own I have seen 42 countries around the world and lived for more than a couple of months in seven in four continents. You have never left your slum in Argentina.
Sorry Nostril..but your pig ignorant rants don't wash with me, or in fact most people on these boards. Your child-like ignorant trolling reflects only badly on you.
Language degree? If TTT is an advocate of isolationism, why would he be wasting his time on a language degree? I remember he told us he was self-taught by watching soap operas from all over the world. I also remember he told us he had to leave school because of circumstances beyond his control. He also told us he was poor and proud of having nothing.
May 29th, 2013 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He just makes it up to enable another dispute. I doubt very much he is even an Argentine.
purley anti rubbish.
May 29th, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine
May 29th, 2013 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is an Argentine little boy, unpopular at school, with a massive inferiority complex. He thinks he has “intellect” but he has ignorance.
He has no experience or knowledge of anything beyond his home town, or what he reads on the Internet between masturbating to gay porn.
His laughable appraisal of me not having been exposed to foreign cultures highlights just how poor his judgement is...he is clueless.
Gave me the best laugh for ages though!!!
@48
May 29th, 2013 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Using the telephone game to create myths Elaine?
I never said I learned languages by watching soaps. I only said I watched foreign soaps to help me learn colloquial speech and that in those soaps they dealt with the huge economic problems of France and Germany, and all of Europe.
I never said I left school period.
I never said I was poor. I said I would rather be poor and FREE than rich and a slave (as you are).
Any other myths (and I am being very generous with you Elaine in using that word instead of spurious canards), you want me to clear up?
@47
Alle Achtung?!
@50 I agree with some of your assertions, though he has told us he does not date women or men. I am not sure why he felt the need to tell us that.
May 29th, 2013 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He might be Argentine but I very much doubt he lives in Mendoza. He seems to have very little knowledge of the place. I visit Mendoza from time to time and offered to leave a note for him at my hotel on my last visit. (Obviously I was not suggesting we meet). He could collect it after I left and post the content on here to prove it. He disappeared off-line for the entire time I was in Mendoza.
He unintentionally reveals a lot about his circumstances on here, especially when he is angry. His memory tends to let him down, probably because the easiest way to have a good memory is to NOT LIE. Ultimately he craves attention.
52 ElaineB
May 29th, 2013 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sorry to go off at a tangent but Toby_The_clown_troll reminded me of BlackAdder II with his last remark
” I said I would rather be poor and FREE than rich and a slave (as you are).”
When Kate ( aka Bob ) is shouting at her dad :-
“It is better to die poor than to live in shame and Ignominy”
to which he says “No, it isn't”
If I had to pick, then toby would the Lord Percy character don't you think?
Elaine, Language degrees are pretty common in Arg, they require proficiency in 4 languages to get a degree.
May 29th, 2013 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now what that degree could be used for is a bit undetermined most of the people end up working in hotels or travel agencies. Most don't speak well or have good comprehension with any of the 4 languages.
There was some opportunity with call centers but most of them are closing now.
Toby has no hope for a decent job, he obviously is from a lower middle class family with no connections so my guess the best he can do is work for one of the Int'l hotels in Mendoza for as long as they stick around.
If he wasn't such a douche I would feel sorry for him
He knows he is doomed to live with his parents until he is 40 to scrape together enough $ to buy a car or rent a decent apt,
@54 Yeah, sadly translators are poorly paid and not treated well. I cannot imagine TTT having the personality to deal with rich tourists and keep his temper. If he was serious about his convictions he would get a law degree, - actually finish it unlike CFK - get into politics or help his oppressed countrymen.
May 29th, 2013 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To gain a language degree in the UK you have to spend periods of time living and studying in countries where the language you are studying is the official language. You can't just watch soap operas and think you understand the language and culture.
@53 I remember the conversation with TTT well. He was showing his envy and ranting about how proud he was to be poor. The problems is he often overstates his position to try to win a point, fails and then tries to backtrack.
Just come across this thread, and to return to the topic, I must say I'm shocked and saddened to see Victoria Donda among the oppositionists pushing this pernicious index and giving succour to the likes of yankeeboy and the kind of people who killed her own parents. She had such a compelling backstory as a child of the disappeared, how she overcame all the complications around her right wing torturer of a “father”, who had nonetheless been a kind dad with her, and chosen to identify with her murdered birth parents, changing her whole name in adulthood; and, as something entirely different, her “let's misbehave” person as a kind of younger Cristinita in election campaigns, all pointed to a very impressive character all round. Even when she sued Cristina I thought it could just be party politics, and hoped for a reconciliation. After all she was originally elected with the FpV, and when it was less radical than today; I hoped the transversal left project could resume, and still hope that, but as for Victoria herself (who I thought could maybe even one day be President!), surely to form a united front with these characters now, when Cristinita is under siege by the money power both foreign and domestic, is basically scabbing, no? I'd have liked to see what Think, as a Binner voter with a good position on Cristinita, thinks of this, so I should really have opened the article sooner; but maybe it can be taken up in another thread?
Jun 06th, 2013 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the music debate that's bizzarely taken over most of this thread though, I'm surprised no-one pointed out to Toby that Morrissey supports Cristina on the Falklands =)
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