MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falkland Islands: C24 must go to the territories and respect their basic human right to choose their own form of government
The Falkland Islands are only asking the international community to support the fundamental human right of Falkland Islanders to choose their own form of government, to exercise their right to self determination, said lawmaker Mike Summers during his presentation at the United Nations Decolonization Committee (24) Caribbean regional seminar, in reference to the recent referendum held in the Islands, whose sovereignty is disputed by the UK and Argentina. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“respect their basic human right to choose their own form of government”
May 31st, 2013 - 02:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Like the Chagossians?
“Be in no doubt, we are Falkland Islanders first and British second”
Is the Governor Haywood English or British first?
Eloquently and clearly expressed, Mr. Summer.
May 31st, 2013 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now they must weigh these words against their consciences.
@1 Marcos
The committee can deal with the Chagossians, separately.
You are using that as a diversion - it has nothing to do with the Falkland Islands.
For the pedants on here, once again, the Governor is the Queen's representative to the Falklands. He is not part of the Falkland's Government.
He is British, not a Falklander.
That should be clear for you Marcos.
@1 - neither. I would guess that he probably sees himself as Cornish first and foremost
May 31st, 2013 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mike Summer says “we are not a colony but we used to be a Crown Colony before. Later, in a terminological maneuver to deal with the fact that the tide of world opinion had turned against colonialism, our Crown Colonies were re-named by an act of Parliament as the British Dependent Territories; and they were subsequently re-named again as the British Overseas Territories. By the way our colonial Governor used to be the British ruler in Basra during our invasion there”
May 31st, 2013 - 04:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Mike, let me guess why the world doesn't believe you and supports Argentina..Hmmmmm...
To all Anglo Turnips in here….
May 31st, 2013 - 04:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Carefull with poster Number 1; Mr. Marcos Alejandro……
1) He is a member of the most despised criminal organization in Argentina…..
(They play criminally bad football, loosing their matches by 10 goals ;-)
2) Its a very little, but despicable organization……
(They used to be “12” members, but luckily most of them are in “Cana” now ;-)
3) Even Pope Francis hates and combats them publicly…...
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC7mHn5yPnM ;-)
Regards
El Borracho del Tablón
1 Marcos Alejandro (#)
May 31st, 2013 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0May 31st, 2013 - 02:50 am
Report abuse
“respect their basic human right to choose their own form of government”
Like the Chagossians?
“Be in no doubt, we are Falkland Islanders first and British second”
Is the Governor Haywood English or British first...........Yada yada yada..is this all “Marcos” can come up with...??Very sad indeed...!!
5 :-))))))))
May 31st, 2013 - 04:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some how we were infected by a ( B)ird flu, not from China but from el barrio de Nuñez .
(7) Marcos Alejandro
May 31st, 2013 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Having clarified at (5) all of life's important questions……, I want to add that Mr. Marcos Alejandro and I are in complete agreement on all counts relating to that minor nuisance called the “Malvinas Issue”....
Anglos go home…..
I totally agree.
May 31st, 2013 - 04:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anglos go home.
@1:
May 31st, 2013 - 04:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yer a tube. Take that to your grave.
Serious question, - Have you sired any children on this earth?
Crazy jocks go home too....
May 31st, 2013 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am hame, ya gype!
May 31st, 2013 - 04:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are south of Hadrian's wall, you aint.....
May 31st, 2013 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0So you are now telling people (me) who they are, and where they come from?
May 31st, 2013 - 05:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lord Thomas Cochran - Liberator of Chile.
And his actions to Brasils independence. -
Oh - shit he was from the wrong side of the wall.
We Scots can call anywhere home, where we are loved.
I am a Scot at home in Brasil. (soon to be back in Escocia)
Watch yersel noo pensa.
I believe Kafka-esque is the word.
May 31st, 2013 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0A man pleads to be heard by a committee whose sole responsibility is to help free him from his colonial oppressors. He is eloquent and puts his case without rancour and tries to explain to them that in fact it is they who are his colonial oppressors and but for them he would already be free. The committee smirks at the man they despise and simply pencil in the date for the next meeting.
(14) Escoses Doido
May 31st, 2013 - 05:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0I luuuuuuv Jock Scotts…..
http://www.mustad.no/www2010/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/kategori_01_trykkekvalitet.jpg
Other less pretty but friendly Jocks, Paddys, Taffys and Sassenachs are welcomed to make their home anywhere they wish down here…..
But NOT when they try to steal our territories for the English Crown…..
@13;
May 31st, 2013 - 05:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0El Capitano - ::
Swallow this, the Mc or Mac thing. MacDonalds, etc or other people around the world with Mc, or Mac names??? It is Scotish, Mac means 'son of'.
Pensa you bellend, please come back with a gram of wisdom??
“Anglos go home”
May 31st, 2013 - 05:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I remember years ago seeing racist graffiti saying “Niggers go home”, and I suppose the racist groups such as the BNP may even daub “Muslims go home”. To see Think and Marcos use the terminology of course reflects their true colours..racist pure and simple (in Thinks case “simple” is the operative word).
With regards respecting their basic human right to select their own form of government, Marcos chooses the Chagossians.
A better example would be Argentina. Who, after the mass genocide and slaughter of the indigenous population of South America, usurped the territory by force, ignored the sovereignty dispute with Spain, and used the principle of self determination to select their own form of (successive ridiculous and corrupt) governments. Britain was one of the first countries to respect that.
However, as Marcos bought up the Chagossians, what form of government? They never had a form of government? nor do the vast majority want a form of government today. The Chagossians were a workforce, under successive Mauritian, French and British Governments, and virtually none of the really want to return to Diego Garcia, they want more compensation and or British citizenship. I wonder why?
However, Mr summers points are well made.
How do each of the territories on the list, get off the list? Not just the Falklands.
Pretty much none of them are subjugated. If the Falklands is a territory dispute, then it should be no different to Kashmir, the west Bank, the Paracel Islands etc...none of these are on the list or anything to do with the C24.
Scrap the list it's irrelevant!!
(14) Escoses Doido
May 31st, 2013 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Two more things.....
1) It's spelled “Cochrane”...., not Cochran......
2) Mr. Thomas Cochrane was not a liberator...; he was a mercenary..., hired to do a job...., he did it well....., he went home.
19 Think
May 31st, 2013 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are not a Scot - go home!
Don't knock paid guns. Your “claim” to the Falklands depends on plenty of them.
May 31st, 2013 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's about time Stink was put IN a home.
May 31st, 2013 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice speech, but I suspect they are not interested. Also don't expect a vist while Diego is in command.
May 31st, 2013 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0tiempo.infonews.com/2012/10/08/argentina-87812-los-ingleses-no-tienen-argumentos-para-evitar-el-dialogo-por-malvinas.php
“...it's likely that they asked a visit of the Committee, but it's something on my watch as chairman on the Committee is not going to give.
- Why?
-We would be recognizing the existence of a settlement. Recognizing that there are a people who want self-determination.”
(21) Redrow
May 31st, 2013 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't “Knock” no hired guns.....
I’m just demystifying some brainwashed Jock fantasies about them “good hearted English liberators” that took part in our independence wars.
@24 Think
May 31st, 2013 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0That you are an expert on brainwashed fantasies is not in doubt.
It would be interesting if the malvinistas were to favour us with an account of their families' histories in Argentina. I wonder if Marcos Alejandro, for example, is able to trace his ancestry in Argentina prior to 1833, the year in which Britain was obliged to assert its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands due to illegal occupation by citizens of the Provincias Unidas.
May 31st, 2013 - 06:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think and Marcos. If you want the FI to come under Argentine control then why don't you actually do something about it rather than rant and rave on the web? Do you lack a spine?
May 31st, 2013 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0After all you cannot rely on support from your fellow latino nations now that Brazil is in partnership with Falkland Island oil explorer Premier Oil. Clearly your government have no influence.
SELF-DETERMINATION is written as International law in at least the following:
May 31st, 2013 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 01. The Charter of the United Nations 2. The Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples. 3. The International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. 4. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. 5. The Declaration on the Principles of International Law. 6. The United Nations International Court of Justice.
Then it is also written into various European Union Laws, National Constitutions (such as my country the Falkland Islands) various United Nations Resolutions and so on..
Marcos and Stink, sad Trolls, stick that up your junta...
The point that Mike Summers makes is important, even if you park the Falkland Islands issue.
May 31st, 2013 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0How do the remaining “NSGTs” come of the list if they are happy with the Status Quo?
Surely the C24 is duty bound to answer that question, even if they wish monitor the status and can re-add them if the situation chages.
the C24 is not fit for purpose in the current form, and is highly biased.
What an amazing speech by Mike Summers (picture misspells his name). It hit the nail on the head. The C24 exists for a reason and it is not promoting and fulfilling that reason.
May 31st, 2013 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0The C24 does not exist to get involved in sovereignty disputes but to decolonize a list of territories that it was bequeathed many decades ago.
Once decolonisation meant a certain process. Independence, integration or associated state. Clearly this worked for most of the territories on the list.
However it is no longer working. Tokelau has twice refused UN sponsored independence. The Falkland Islands and Gibraltar have made it clear that through democratic votes to continue their current status. And Pitcairn Islands would be the first country with a government that comprised 100% of its population. All 48 of them.
Thankfully after all these decades of talk, the Falkland Islands is finally shining a light on the workings of the C24 and asking the questions that the C24 clearly don't want asked.
The C24 is supposed to represent the people of these territories and so far in the past couple of decades has failed miserably at this task.
Good job FIG!
@1 De-colonization does not mean re-colonization by the Banana Republic or Argentina.
May 31st, 2013 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“May I insist “Falkland Islanders have no wish to be colonised by Argentina”.”
May 31st, 2013 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0That sentence says it all really.
“”“I totally agree.
May 31st, 2013 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anglos go home.”“”
They are home and there's f-all you can do about it.
:-)
“Whilst Member States may or may not wish to choose sides in a dispute between the UK and Argentina, as Members of the C24, in solidarity with the people of the NSGT's, your duty is to the people of the Falkland Islands”.
May 31st, 2013 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately the meetings of the C24 provide a regular nice little junket to its participants- first class air travel, nice hotels, good food and a chance to catch up with friends from other totalitarian or semi-totalitarian states- and much of it at UN expense. But the number of so called 'colonies' remaining on the list and the combined population in them must barely justify all the expense; any further reduction and the value of the C24 may be seriously questioned. Who on this committee is ever going to jepoardise thier nice little holidays by de-listing any further territories?
May 31st, 2013 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0So reassuring to hear that Marcos and Think are such true typical Argentines- ie RACISTS.
May 31st, 2013 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Anglos go home”!
Do they ever consider going “home” to their roots of several centuries ago? No ? Then please explain to me WHAT is the difference between them and we islanders?
The one that comes to my mind is that their family roots were probabaly involved with subjugating a native population and then exterminating a large part of it a century or two ago.
'BOSSANO LAMBASTS UN COMMITTEE OVER ‘FAILINGS - Veteran GSLP Minister Joe Bossano has launched into a scathing attack on the record of UN Committee of 24 in consistently falling to do the work it is tasked with – decolonising the territories on its list.
May 31st, 2013 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking in Quito, Ecuador and taking a seat alongside the Falkland’s delegate, Mr Bossano pronounced that the Committee are “failing miserably” in making sure that Gibraltar is “developing self-government taking into account the political aspirations of our people.”
“I have been involved in the decolonisation campaign of my country since the age of 25 over 49 years ago, almost half a century. I think, distinguished delegates, that this gives me the moral right to question your performance,” he said.
Mr Bossano declared that “unless by some miracle we see something new in the report of this year’s seminar this committee might as well pack up”...'
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=29512
'Insulza reform does not provide news about OAS IACHR in Assembly - The OAS Secretary General, José Miguel Insulza, predicted that the debate in the UN General Assembly will focus on the strategy to generate drugs and developments in the dispute over the Falkland Islands and still spur debate some countries on the Reform Commission...'
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=29512
'By the decolonization of Malvinas and French Guyana'
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=29512
'French Polynesia asks for independence vote, rejects UN stance'
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=29512
Members of the sub-sub-committee(C24) seem to be incapable of reading and or understanding UN General Assembly Resolution 1541(XV), available here:
May 31st, 2013 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/1541(XV)
Where it states
“A Non-Self-Governing Territory can be said to have reached a full measure of self-government by:……….
(b) Free association with an independent State: or….”
Now by my understanding the Falkland Islands have done just that so why are they still 'on the list'. This has nothing to do with the sovereignty dispute. That can, and will, still exist.
Now we all should know by now that UN General Assembly Resolutions are non binding so perhaps that is what the C24 sub-sub-committee members are doing hoping to keep their 'jobs and perks'!
@1 What? The “Chagossians” started out as slaves taken there by the French. Then they were contract workers for a Mauritian company. Never owned so much as a grain of sand. But then, of course, we know what you do to natives and indigenous peoples. Did you know that the Spanish invented concentration camps?
May 31st, 2013 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4 Did you know that argieland was originally part of the Viceroyalty of Peru? It wasn't until later that Paraguay established the Governorate of the Rio de la Plata, aided by more colonists from Peru and Chile. And even later, that became the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata. All this took over 200 years. From 1536. Colonists, colonists, colonists. Actually, by my count, it was 274 years from establishment to your “revolution”. Then, wasn't it 1865 before Spain finally agreed that you weren't a colony? So that's another 55 years before the “owner” agreed that you could “do your own thing”. I make that 329 years before you were recognised as a “state”. Now, amazingly, starting from 1690, the Falkland Islands hasn't had as much time as you. Especially as they had no “proper” people there between 1776 and 1833. Just dagoes and the like.
Dear MA, who supports argieland? Leave out all those you've threatened and/or bribed. Also leave out all those you've lied to.
@8, 9 WE have a parting gift for you. WE can't tell you what, and where, it is because it's a SECRET. But WE're testing a micro version in your volcano. Boom, Boom!
@16 Do you not yet understand that the whole “real” world is English? Look around. To the north there is the United Kingdom and the United States. In the south there is Australia and New Zealand. On occasion, there is also South Africa. In between are the “reservations”.
@18 Argies are racists. It's in their constitution.
@19 “he did it well”. No, he didn't. He left you alive.
@23 You never know. They are getting much the same from Gibraltar. Check out http://www.panorama.gi/
(36) Islander1
May 31st, 2013 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Since when is “Anglo” a Race ???
Anglo Squatting Pirates go Home !!!
Like that better ???
I have explained several times to you the “Difference” between an “English Squatting Pirate” and an “Argentinean citizen”.....
You, Squatting Pirate Lot have sworn allegiance to a European Queen from a far away European Kingdom and your best efforts are directed at maximizing its profits and wealth......
We, Argentinean Citizens have sworn allegiance to our Republic and our best efforts are directed at achieving the best for our Nation and our people........
That’s why we want you English Squatting Pirate Lot out of here… ASAP….
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
May 31st, 2013 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0By any other name would smell as sweet;
Meaning……What matters is what something is, not what it is called!!
Falkish or not Falkish that is the question
#40
May 31st, 2013 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0We, Argentinean Citizens have sworn allegiance to our Republic and our best efforts are directed at achieving the best for our Nation and our people........at everyone else's expense.
8 Think (#.....One really can do no other than smile @ the childish postings of senorita “Think” along with all her other Argie nestlings...I have yet to see anyone of them post anything intelligent...Bottom line is that they just “DONT get it”...!
May 31st, 2013 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 042 We, Argentinean Citizens have sworn allegiance to our Republic and our best efforts are directed at achieving the best for our Nation and our people........ lol
May 31st, 2013 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0203 years of achieving shit all :)
Seems like “little think” is racist, going on about northern european like always, one has to wonder if he hates the Germans & Dutch as well.
40.41
May 31st, 2013 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hello, THINK
What a coincidence, “Think” and ”A_Voice arriving together, a minute apart.
;-)
42 Clyde15 (#)
May 31st, 2013 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 31st, 2013 - 11:58 am
Correct, and include in those paying the price... the Argentine people!!!!!!!
Thick & Marcus Dickus should read a little of their own history before they mention British colonialism especially the war of the Triple alliance where together with their Uruguayan brothers & their Brazilian cousins, they murdered 60% of the population of Paraguay
May 31st, 2013 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also only a few years later the Conquest of the Desert began with the slaughter of almost all the indigenous population of Patagonia by the ´great´ General Roca whose heroics are remembered every time we use a 100 peso bill
It takes a great hypocrite not to acknowledge the mistakes of the past!!!
Falkland Islanders first and British second……..is this true? Turks and Caicos were self governing but the United Kingdom suspended the Turks and Caicos Islands' self-government after “allegations” of ministerial corruption. Is this the case with the Falklands? Can the autonomous system of government be suspended on a whim?
May 31st, 2013 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can a minister, through the means of an order in council, exile a whole population from a British Overseas Territory and claim that he is doing so for the peace, order and good government of the territory?
This has happened once already, can this be applied to the Falklands as a BRITISH territory, if this is the case then I would beg to differ….you are British first and Falkland Islander second.
Sorry to digress and change the topic.
May 31st, 2013 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sky news is carrying a story that 2,459 bales of toilet paper have been discovered hoarded in. Warehouse in Venezuala.
Maduro is claiming and I quote, it's a conspiracy to “destabilise” the country.
How do you deal with people seriously, when this is what they consider a national issue. My god, we are talking about toilet paper!!!M
you have to laugh to the point of crying when two parasites being THINK and Marcos Alejandro come to this forum and tell other people to go home all this coming from people who can not live in their homeland because it is not suitable.
May 31st, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0may we suggest sometime soon you pack your black bin liners and go live in the country that is fast disappearing down the toilet pan and support your own people-we won't hold our breath though.
Well as long as the nutters and fruit cakes they call a government in Venezuala supports them, I for one will be happy. Christ imagine the grief real intelligent support could cause for the islanders?
May 31st, 2013 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 048 THINK
May 31st, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0do you have any links for that? you seem to know a lot about it, yet you need others to draw the proper conclusions.
As an example:
In Canada, our Monarch's representative has the power to “dissolve Parliament” under extraordinary conditions. A new election is then called, but the country would not be ruled by the UK.
A Voice
May 31st, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You clearly do not understand democracy.
If the people of the British Overseas Territories WANT TO BE British Overseas Territiories, then YOU HAVE NO FURTHER SAY.
Whatever relationship they have with the UK, Whatever powers are kept in London or devolved to the territiories are ABSOLUTELY NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
The C24 and the UN are there to ensure people are not governed against their will, neither the peoples of Turks and Caicos nor the Falklands fall into that category.
Both are British Overseas territories as long as they wish to be so, the moment that they don't they are free to be whatever else they wish to be.
That is democracy.
53 Monkeymagic
May 31st, 2013 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You clearly do not understand democracy.”
Please go easy on “A_Voice”
As you say, he may not understand Democracy. We don't know where he is from and Think hasn't told us yet.
However, if that incarnation of Think is from “Scotland” as well, he should have a good idea and will see it in action in 2014
:-)
Well this is not the year for the poor members of the C24. After reading the walloping the Falkland Islands have already given it in Quito, it was pleasing to read that the French Polynesian government has officially requested that France organise a referendum on independence so as to remove themselves from their new position as a Non Self Governing Territory.
May 31st, 2013 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is getting harder for the C24 to ignore the number of referendums that keep saying one thing..... NO CHANGE!
We have had Gibraltar say they are happy with their status.
We have had the Falkland Islands say they are happy with their status.
We have had Tokelau say TWICE that they do not wish to change their status.
And now we will have French Polynesia speak in a democratic referendum.
That will be four of the 17 listed territories.
Gibraltar sums up many of these points in their recent speech in Quito. A few choice phrases:
“What for, Mr Chairman why have us participate if nothing we say here, year after year, makes any difference?”
“This is the job you are failing to do.”
“Is Spain so ignorant...”
“...I only see in your deliberations the stagnation of the status quo and luxury of rhetoric and rituals.”
“You are miserably failing to do this.”
“...this gives me the moral right to question your performance.”
“...you have not shown the remotest interest in it.”
“...this committee might as well pack up.”
And this one is a ripper:
“My country has been independent from Spain longer than yours Mr Chairman. Does that give them the right to claim restoration of their sovereignty over Ecuador?”
http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/images/stories/PDF/pressoffice/pressreleases/2013/371-2013.pdf
I like the new tact that these territories are taking.
Troy
May 31st, 2013 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed.
Scotland is a very good example.
The people of Scotland will get to vote on independence, most likely they will vote to remain in the UK, if not they will be independant (but interestingly, like canada and 15 other nation states within the UN, will still have Queen Elizabeth II as monarch..so in twinks eyes they will still be English squatters???!!)
If the do vote to remain a part of the UK, the nature of the union, which powers are in London, which powers in Edinburgh, are to be decided between the PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND AND THE REMAINDER OF THE UK.
NOBODY ELSE GETS A SAY!
99.8% of Falklanders voted to keep the status quo..the C24 have nothing to do here.
@52
May 31st, 2013 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Canada and Australia the Queen's representative is nominated by the Prime Minister of the country concerned and 'appointed' by the Queen, even if she does not actually approve of the person nominated. I do not believe it has happened in Canada but in the 1930's in Australia it did, the British |Government and the King disapproved of the nominee but he was 'appointed' anyway. Democracy at work!
Actually the Queen herself can dissolve Parliament in the UK under very Special Circumstances but she will not 'Rule' afterwards an election has to be held.
Think 40- very sorry but I am not an Anglo! Am neither English,Scottish,Welsh,Northern irish,Manx nor Channel Islander.
May 31st, 2013 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am a Falkland Islander - dont mind being called an offshoot “Patagonian” as we are nearby and share some things as we know.
So you would call Canadian,s Australians,NewZealenders.Fijians etc etc all Anglo squatters as they to swear allegiance to the same Queen?
Sorry you need to come up with a better argument that that.
Well said!
May 31st, 2013 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 Conqueror
May 31st, 2013 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By far my favourite speech of this year...
'...There were sterner words for Spain whose colonial record, Mr Bossano suggested, deprived her of the right to preach.
“Spain says that our latest Constitution does not decolonise us because it keeps Gibraltar dependent on UK. We are not saying it does, we are saying it is up to you, this Committee, to tell us whether it falls short of the decolonisation requirements and, if so, identify its deficiencies. This is the job you are failing to do,” he said having accused Spain of contempt for Gibraltarians in describing the people as “the current inhabitants of Gibraltar” as if they were “recently arrived illegal immigrants”.
“It is an absolute disgrace that Spain should stand before you to argue and advocate the breach of every single one of our Human Rights. If our homeland were taken from us and given to Spain would that not be tantamount to subjecting us to alien domination, a breach of our human rights? If the sovereignty of our homeland were transferred to Spain would that not be the end of our right to complete freedom in the exercise of our sovereignty and the removal of the territorial integrity of our country which is currently supposedly under your protection?” said Mr Bossano
“It is time for this Committee, once and for all, to make clear to Spain that they cannot stand in the way of Gibraltar’s decolonisation and that they will never succeed because their very attempt is a blatant breach of Human Rights,” he said.'
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=29512
See full text at www.chronicle.gi
(58) Islander1
May 31st, 2013 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You most certainly are an “offshoot” Patagonian Anglo….
And a citizen of that funny concoction you Anglos call the United Kingdom….
And a subject to the German Queen of the aforementioned Kingdom…
And being all the above, you live and breathe for favoring your far away Colonial Mother Kingdom….
In direct contraposition to the interests of my Country....
That’s why we want you English Squatting Pirate lot out of here…
ASAP.
You only have to look at the members of the committee to realize it's a huge farce, at least 5 of the members (China, Cuba, Fiji, Iran & Syria) don't even have free elections of their own. The 7 African states are all very dubious governments & the 5 S.American countries with the exception of Chile are subject to massive fraud & corruption.
May 31st, 2013 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Carribean islands are essentially insignificant as are the Pacific islands so that leaves us with basket case Iraq, the ex KGB mafia run Russian federation, Indonesia (only free elections since 2004) & the only true democracy India
Btw why are there 29 members in the C24???
Joe Bossano says “..unless by some miracle we see something new in the report of this year’s seminar this committee might as well pack up”. Surely that signals the end of Gibraltars participation in this nonsense.
May 31st, 2013 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@52 Puppet
May 31st, 2013 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As most of my post at 48 was copy and paste I suggest you do your own homework and find it, that is your problem you do not have much in the way of “little grey cells” (Poirot) in your case it seems to be “Je pense donc je suis…..je pense”…..hehehe is Canada a BOT?
@ 53 Monkeymagic
Is this post saying anything? You clearly do not understand the constitution concerning BOT's…..whilst they are BOT's they will do as they are told…..and like it!!
@54
What do you know of Scotland……hehehe almost 10% for the population living there are English, so indeed we will see the forgone conclusion of the 2014 referendum. The vote is next year and still there is no white paper from SNP. Of course if the vote were to be yes, then there would be no need for a nationalist party…..sort of shooting yourself in the foot.
@56
The people of Scotland are outnumbered almost 10 to 1 by the remainder of the UK ……could almost be an Ethnic minority……wee bandy legged Scots (As step I wi' my cromach to the isles)…….with big ideas.
It was really funny to look at the Wallace statue near Stirling and see it was based on Mel Gibson…..how embarrassing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/8310614.stm
The problem with Scotland .....is it's full of Scots :-)
55
May 31st, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think's arguments do not really need to be logical or hold together under close scrutiny.
We know they are designed to deflect and as in this case,
to sow seeds of doubt.
The more uninformed his audience, the better.
@62 Think
May 31st, 2013 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not sure what you mean by German Queen, is this some sort of insult? England consists of three Germanic tribes, the Celts were eradicated or forced into the celtic fringe most of the north became subject to the Viking colonisation although they did not eradicate the existing Angles that occupied the North as far as and including King Edin of Edinburgh.(Anglian King)
Germanic tribes with a German Queen where is the insult?
@65
Oooo.......my post was within two minutes of yours.....coincidence......or does this mean I'm you?
who does Mr. Summers think he can cheat with his pretension of being “british after falklandler” . Grow up and stop supporting colonialism, it has been ruled out by UN 3000 falklanders can not prevail over the worlds population to move back a 100 years and increase the risk of wars . Falklanders , should stand up to be an independent country like any other . Falklanders are not British they are English speaking people governed by British people under a colonialist constitution made by the UK crown. Colonialism and monarchy should be buried together in the past they belong. Read http://falklandislandsrepublic.blogspot.com.ar/?view=sidebar
May 31st, 2013 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think refuses to indicate what action he is going to take to remove the population of the Falkland Islands and help the islands come under Argentine control. This is exactly the same as his government (when they are not changing the kick-off time of football matches).
May 31st, 2013 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He also chooses to ignore the fact that Argentina has little support at the international level. The likes of Brazil pays them lip service while signing a deal with FI oil explorer Premier Oil.
Actions speak louder than words. What a laughing stock the Argies are.
A voice
May 31st, 2013 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even if your premise was true (which it isn't) that the BOTs “have to do what they are told and like it” it doesn't matter as long as they do like it.
I personally find it extraordinary that the people of Argentina decide to elect a government that is openly corrupt, openly dishonest and openly incompetent. However, it is their right to choose whatever form of government suits them.
If the BOTs support the system of government that they currently have..it is their choice, whether you like it, think it a good system, or not. As long as they do (and in the case of the FIs 99.8% of them do) that is self-determination.
The people of Scotland are indeed outnumbered nearly 10-1 by the rest of the UK, so what? They return a significant number of MPs to Westminster (often holding the balance of power), have their own Parliament in Holyrood, AND get to vote on non-Scottish issues in Westminster.
It is rare that an “ethnic minority” be better represented in Union.
However, their choice of government is their own. You will find a greater % of English would like Scottish Independence than Scots, so much for English Imperialism..!
It's fun to see you try and justify you being better positioned than the inhabitants of the BOTs to decide their form of Government..LOL
Mr. Beef
May 31st, 2013 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The brilliant farm-out led to a 60% drop.
It is time to go.
Urinhopper update 132.88 -7.00 (-5.03%) :-)))))))))))))))
@48 Do you practice or does it come naturally? Being a tosspot, I mean. See there are certain nations designated as “administrative authorities” by the UN. Nations trusted to guide small territories toward self-government and independence. Nations that can deny the imperialist, colonialist aspirations of thieves such as argieland. Argieland isn't at trusted nation. Britain is an administrative authority It will do the right thing. But one thing that BOTs can be assured of. No BOTs will be transferred to slugs. When ready BOTs will become independent nation states. And no slugs like argieland will be allowed to interfere.
May 31st, 2013 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@69
May 31st, 2013 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And where will I find these mythical figures that a greater percentage of English would like Scottish Independence......please do enlighten......or stop spouting utter nonsense.
Is this what you do when you cannot refute the important questions at post 48?
If someone had that power over me I would be very worried.
I am loving the price Marcos. More Beef stock!!! Now Brazil is offing it's licences to FI oil explorers then I guess it is SeaLion to FPSO to Brazil!!!!
May 31st, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that the kind of support you like from those who claim support Argentina? I certainly like it :)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9015374/Britain-divided-over-Scottish-independence.html
May 31st, 2013 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just one of many saying the same thing. If you want to dismiss this, there are plent of others.
There are no important points in your post #48
The power the UK has over the islanders which you suggest COULD be ussed is none of your business, it is theirs and 99.8% of them are happy with it.
I would not be comfortable being an Argentine when the mad harley has the power that she currently does, or when in recent memory the Argentine government was chucking nuns from planes...none of these things happen in the Falklands in a system you “are not comfortable with”...LOL
@71
May 31st, 2013 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am so pleased that you believe that Britain “will do the right thing” and have such faith, but it's not a always a question of, what they will do, but what they can do if push comes to shove.
Surely only a Tosspot would use the name of a submarine that was instrumental in killing so many young men that had no choice in their participation of an unfortunate conflict??
Everybody please notice. The argie tosspot lying shit-fuckers. Try to remember that argies are, and always will be, mendacious, sluggardly, shit.
May 31st, 2013 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@67 tipstonga
May 31st, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Welcome back. It's been 8 months since your last post...
Quick question.
How would Argentina would feel about an independent Falkland Islands?
Would it be the end of the debate?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
@75
May 31st, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't seem to understand, what they will or won't do, could or might do is none of your business unless it directly impacts your country (which it doesn't), just as what CFK and tinpot will or won't do, could or might do isn't mine...unless it directly impacts UK citizens.
The only people who need to support the intricacies of the BOTs are the UK and the people's of the BOTs..if both are happy with the status quo..it ceases to be anyone else's concern...least of all yours.
(66) A_Voice
May 31st, 2013 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say….:
”I'm not sure what you mean by German Queen, is this some sort of insult?”
I say…:
Not intended as an insult from my side…..
Just a reminder to some Haughty AngloTurnips in here about what they are…….... and are not.
@72 Think / A_Hole
May 31st, 2013 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you lived in the UK you would be well aware of this. You really are sad.
oh dear the old “german” “insult”...what a couple of loons.
May 31st, 2013 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anglo-saxon....saxony....ooo..Germany
Norman.....oooh...Normandy...now in France
Viking....oooh...Scandanavia
Jesus, Think and A_hole want to talk about “pure-blood”, in some sort of racist Voldemort type shit. How funny and yet how pathetic.
So, all these Germans, French, Danish and who knows what...get in an island and call themselves British, vote for the government of THEIR CHOICE and live how they decide they want to.
A bunch of Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, welsh (lol) commit genocide in South America and call themselves Argentine, vote for a government of their choice and live how they decide they want to (mostly in squalor)
A bunch of British, Chilean, st Helenan, and other live on some islands, elect the style of government they choose and live how they decide they want to.
Only Stink and A_hole decide that the 3rd group should want to be Argentine, or should leave, or should do what they want not what they want for themselves....hypocrisy, racism and stupidity in equal measure.
@75
May 31st, 2013 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The name of the ship was, “Belgrano.”
The name of the submarine was, “Conqueror.”
For fuck sake! show some respect to the lost of the Belgrano! By not belittling their loss, they died for you!
#79
May 31st, 2013 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you would have it, the Brits. have a German Queen.
Following this logic means that their is no such person as an Argentinian. They are all colonialists who are still Italian, Spanish German etc. squatting on land that does not belong to them.
@80
May 31st, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh yeah thats conclusive a survey of 1734 adults aged 18+ in England and 501 in Scotland out of what 60 million? and really balanced as well considering it's 1 to 10 ratio of Scots to the rest of UK.
It also depends on where the survey was taken.....if it was the southern poofters south of the Watford gap.....they would even say that about the North.....North/South Divide
Watch too much telly do you?........and believe it?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086833/Scottish-independence-More-English-Scots-want-independence-Scotland.html
May 31st, 2013 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086833/Scottish-independence-More-English-Scots-want-independence-Scotland.html
And another one, and another one!!!
In fact, I can't find an opinion poll that shows the reverse...
Where is your evidence A-hole, oh you haven't got any....how did you put it...stop spouting utter nonsense!!!
Why don't we all sit down and wait for the result!
May 31st, 2013 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@84 Think
May 31st, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I realise that you don't understand statistics but I do. Random sampling of a population gives you a probability that the true opinion of the population lies within a particular stated range. I appreciate that it might SEEM inaccurate to people who don't understand statistics but I promise you it works. As for the North / South divide, for every 4 Tory voters out of 10 in the south there are 3 in the North. That is hardly the difference between night and day. I personally like Scotland and hope they remain in the Union but that is entirely up to them.
@82
May 31st, 2013 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have totally lost me? I was referring to the tosspot that likes to call himself Conqueror……..he's the one that has no respect for Human life by choosing such a name!! A bit like calling yourself Enola Gay on a Japanese forum
@86
May 31st, 2013 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally, I couldn't care if the Scottish vote for independence or not, what is important is that they get to chose.
The point being made to A_hole, is that English Imperialism died seventy years ago, the idea we WANT territories against the will of the population is BULLSHIT. Even oil rich territories like Scotland and the FIs
However, if the population of a territory wishes to remain British, like ALL the BOTS, ALL the crown dependencies, Probably Scotland, Wales, and definately Northern Ireland...we will do everything in our power to make that happen..it's not always possible...but we will try.
Apologies where apologies are due, I thought you were being disrespectful.
May 31st, 2013 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I apologise.
@85
May 31st, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said stop spouting nonsense this is from the link you posted…???
English support for Scottish independence polled at 36% - almost exactly the same as the result of a poll for the Herald newspaper last month, which suggested 37% of Scots favoured separation.
Regardless of what Scotland decides to do, however, the poll indicated that most English people wanted England to remain within a United Kingdom, with 57% saying they would not like the country to become fully independent with its own government.
Talk about embarrassing yourself
@77
May 31st, 2013 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hello Steve: There is lot of people in RA that it is not interested in this to be a conflict Important intelectuals has expresed for the 3 part dialog I letter of mine supporting FI independence was published by La Nación of BA and was well received. Of course there also a lot of chauvinists the same that in UK . If the falklanders take a truly pro independence position and claim for the opening of 3 part dialog to complete the task with the help of UK and RA, the support from Argentinian people will be great. At the same time all support to colonialism will be hated, falklanders should then show to the world that integration with RA will be as colonialist as being under UK domain like now, so independence is the solution. Read the above mentioned blog .http://falklandislandsrepublic.blogspot.com.ar/?view=sidebar you will find these ideas best developed
It's called self determination, go figure, how embarrassing is that?
May 31st, 2013 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why should the Islanders integrate with Argentina, they like the way they live now, what possible benefit would they get?
Is it wrong to ask such a questiion?
The Special Committee's purpose is to examine the application of the Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples contained in its resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960, and to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress and extent of the implementation of the Declaration, and to report to the General Assembly under its terms of reference provided by UN General Assembly Resolution 1654(XV)
May 31st, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thus the Special Committee must examine for each Non-Self-Governing Territory if the terms of the Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples contained in its resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 have been implemented by the non-self-governing territory's Administration Country: Yes or no?
Any thing else is beyond its remit and is simply politics
@93
May 31st, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please explain why England doesn't have a right of self determination from the rest of Britain even though it has the largest majority of population by far.......doesn't have an English parliament......doesn't get to vote on separatist issues.....can't fly the English flag without being branded BNP supporter.....No St Georges Day public holiday.
Now that is embarrassing
No what is embarrassing is that you believe what you read on the net and that you can not believe that four small countries on the same small island can live together.
May 31st, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that they managed to achieve so much, is neither here nor there, but hey, they it is.
@95
May 31st, 2013 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it embarrassing?
Putting the rest of the Union before itself, supporting all the constituent parts in ensuring they have self-determination,.....it doesn't sound like the belligerent monster about to heave the Falkland islanders or Turks from their homeland.
You need to make up your mind...LOL.
Oh you haven't got one!!
What you do have is a ridiculous series of trolling rhetoric which moves from ludicrous argument to ludicrous argument as each gets destroyed, reverting back to the beginning...how long until you ask us again why the British subsidise the BOTs LOL...
95 Thinkedover
May 31st, 2013 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“.doesn't get to vote on separatist issues.....”
Wow, Thinkus, bringing “Dame Dover” back??
Same dialog, different I.D.
Do you really think that the English and Irish and Welsh should be able to vote on whether Scotland wants to leave.
That would deny them their Self-Determination.
Or... are you just trolling again ?
;-)
@95 Think
May 31st, 2013 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking as a non-English Brit living in England (sorry Conqueror), my feeling is that the English have always played down their nationalism for the good of the Union. Given that they comprised 50 of the 60 million that always made sense. But since Euro-96 the English flag had gained prominence. That you think it marks someone out as being far-right is ~20 years out of date. But then you would know that if you lived here.
As for worrying about not having enough holidays, you are clearly showing your Southern European roots.
Sorry guys that should be three countries, sill, some achievement.
May 31st, 2013 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Right who were denied their former inhabitants in 1833.
May 31st, 2013 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Until the fatigue has been repeated which is not the principle of self-determination to the people of the Malvinas Islands, because it is null and void from the beginning.
- There is not a “people”. A group of Brits living in America as if it were an extension of Europe. And if they are not a colony, what are they? If you are settlers (that's what they are) are a British colony in America.
- “We are Islanders first and then british”..... What!!! go ridiculous.
-There are a lots of will to remove it from the list, provided to end the occupation by a foreign power, that's what is on the list.
-Incredible as reverse the burden of proof: the interests and ambitions of England are what led to this situation, no matter how much time has passed. He who can not see it because they want to.
- The case of the Malvinas should be the clearest case: Argentine government, flag Argentina, Argentina population, ousted by a military force: INVASION. In 1833 (the first) and 1982 (second).
- According to Professor Argentine Marcelo Kohen, 100,000! Nigerians and 10,000 Salvadorans respectively they were found living respectively in Cameroon and Honduras by judgment of the International Court of Justice, despite having invoked the self-determination.
- The Malvinas can not decide for itself an arrangement with another country (Great Britain) because it is not a country and its people are no different from that of the metropolis, and the United Nations Charter was made to subject peoples, which is not the case the territory of the Malvinas.
(100) reality check
May 31st, 2013 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No sweat, mate, we all know you are a Turnip.......
- The islands have no native population 1833, but there had been previous births that year. In addition there was a flag (Argentina) in Soledad, a government and a population Argentine.
May 31st, 2013 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- 10 generations? Until just yesterday, there were 9?. Either way it is irrelevant, and these are disappearing but they “paint” it as an ancient people who, if we continue with the myth, would go back to the Greco-Roman civilization or earlier to it ....
- The economy as “prosperous” of the islands, is at the expense of Argentine fishes, besides his “governor” has veto power at all and is appointed by the queen.
- The situation we are facing Argentines in the Malvinas colonialism, was caused by “greedy eyes” and ambitious of the English of the early nineteenth century, cheeky.
- Indeed, if the people do not respect the Argentine government and laws are “squatters” of the islands.
- So the British government has nothing to do with the referendum, ha ha ha. But it turns out to be a voter had to have British citizenship. So as a kind of tautology. In other words: you're British: “yes”. You want to follow British: “yes”, then the territory are British. Very clever!
Thank you think, I appreciate that coming from an expat cabbage.
May 31st, 2013 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say.....
I say.........
JM
Give it up, it should be blatantly obvious by now , you are never going to get the Falkand Islands. Try behaving with some decorum and speaking to them properly, like the peiple they are, that might help? Can you do that? I doubt it.
@99
May 31st, 2013 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh yeah outdated.....like you would know It was only a few years ago that it was illegal to fly an English flag in England.....do some research!!!
Also the councils try and find any excuse to prevent you from doing it.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4389454/Cabbie-told-to-remove-England-flags.html
Huh nuff said
Jose
May 31st, 2013 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's correct. You ask the population what they want and that's what they get...it's called self determination...Argentina exists because of it in 1814.
If you can't steal somebody else's territory..Wrgentina wouldn't exist...
The Falklands would however, because despite your lies...there was no “population Argentine” in 1833 nor was there a “government Argentine”. There was a business being run by the British subject Matthew Brisbane, and a 2 month old militia who'd already raped and murdered.
Can anyone else feel the seething in this thread.
May 31st, 2013 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very entertaining.
Oh, and well played Mr. Summers
@105
May 31st, 2013 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't need to do any research, I just need to look out my window. And if you consider reading the Sun “doing research” then you are even less informed about the UK than I had previously given you credit for.
Think 61- glad we agree on the Patagonia bit at least! I am not bothered about the ancestry of our head of Satre- the Europeans have close to 2000 years of internmarrying and raiding each other!
May 31st, 2013 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you bothered if your Head of State has some other bloodline generations ago?
It is hardly their fault- thus it is irrelevant.
Yes I am a “British Subject” indeed - but first and foremost a Falkland Islander.
Be realistic - Independence for 3000 people - with a larege neighbour who would promptly move in and Colonise us- ie occupy us against our freely expressed democratic choice? One day I hope we may be Independent but that day is some way off yet and possibly not in my time.
Do enlighten me as to how Argentina is going to achive its aim of getting us all to leave our homeland?
You cannot deny that in the last 18-24 months the international real and effective pendulum ( not the witterings of irrelvant committees with no power and baseless “accords” claimed when half the members were not there) is no longer swinging your way!
It is hovering and wobbling about as it starts to realise that there are actually PEOPLE involved and not just a one side story of dubious facts.
My money says over the next few years it will more likley start to swing our way.
After all which of your neighbours gives you solid factual physical support? - not just meaningless word.
Chile? - No
Uruguay? - No
Brazil? - No
103 Jose - there was indeed the flag of the States of the River plate in 1832-33 - There was also a British Flag first flown in 1690 and again with a settlement in 1765 - the people left some years after - but the flag and territorial claim remained.
Tell me when did our Governor last use these veto powers you talk about? When did he overturn a decision of our elected leaders?
There is only one flag that counts, they have he seen it enough. It was displayed on the radio aerial of the marine maching into Stanley.
May 31st, 2013 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the subject of flags, what the hell did we do with all of theirs that we captured?
Never been displayed, unlike some, I suppose we would think that it was crass and insensitive to display them publicy.
Not like some hey, particularly thinking of flag six at the latest CFK road show.
No style, that!s her problem.
@108
May 31st, 2013 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again much that you know........
The newspaper, which sells most copies in the UK, is the Sun. It is estimated to have over 7,772,000 readers as opposed to the Daily Mail, which has 4,741,000 readers. Other best selling copies include: The Daily Mirror, Metro, Daily Star and Daily Express.
This says it all about the people of the UK..... hehehe and I do, of course realise that a “Sun Reader” is a bit of an oxymoron. ;-)
You have obviously never heard the the saying, “if it ain't in the Sun, it ain't true.”
May 31st, 2013 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here's another for you,“Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.”
I am one of those millions who buy the Sun and if you seriously think that I or others like me, believe what the Sun prints, sorry I am laughing while typing this, you obviously know jack shit about us. Fuck me! We use to buy it for page three.
Look that up on the net!
@92
May 31st, 2013 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You really don't get it do you. Telling the Falkland Islanders that they should be independent, is as bad as telling them that they should be Argentine. YOU are not in a position to tell them anything, they are intelligent enough to make that choice for themselves.
Independent means defending yourself 100% from you nutters 400km away. Whereas, the Falklanders now quite well that if Argentina tried it again, they would have some of the worlds most technologically advanced and devastating war machines heading south to defend them. If they were independent, they would have to deal with that very real prospect on their own.
Get it now???
Not to mention an Airborne Infantry Division just falling over themselves what 13 year combat veterans can do.
May 31st, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 088Thinkedover
May 31st, 2013 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You have totally lost me? I was referring to the tosspot that likes to call himself Conqueror……..he's the one that has no respect for Human life by choosing such a name!! A bit like calling yourself Enola Gay on a Japanese forum”
Oh, well Think, if this is not an act, so much for posing as a measured, dispassionate, reasoning “Brit”.
Really, you lie cheat insult antagonise, intimidate, and attack civilians to steal their homes, and YOU get indignant??
I question Conqueror's appropriateness myself sometimes, but you have no moral leg to stand on when it comes to the Fslklands and wasting the lives of your armed forces.
You compound that by using them to express roghteous indignation as a political tool.
How many times have we seen you and the other trolls laugh at the plight of the Falklanders and disdain for the Argentine poor?
You are a truly repulsive hypocrit.
@115 Puppet
May 31st, 2013 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh! for goodness sake “Get down Shep”………and try and contribute some useful input to the above topic… ;-)
@92 tipstonga
May 31st, 2013 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your honest views.
It's refreshing to talk to an Argentine that doesn't want to ethnically cleanse the inhabitants of the FI. Very interesting website also...
Too often people focus on the past and not the future solutions. Although I don't agree with everything you say on the website, I do think the FI will become an independent nation, mainly due to external pressure.
Two more questions if you don't mind...
1. Falkland Islands Republic! Would a constitutional Monarchy not be acceptable? i.e. New Zealand / Papua New Guinea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy
2. Why do you take such a personal interest and spend so much time on the FI subject?
@116thinkedover
May 31st, 2013 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Oh! for goodness sake “Get down Shep”………and try and contribute some useful input to the above topic… ”
Some “useful input” Think, like “Go home Anglos”???
You are nothing more than a professional detractor.
@118
May 31st, 2013 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Haha I thought that one would sail right over your plastic British wannabe head.....nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more! ......you are little more than a joke....not a very smart one at that.......time for bed, said zebedee. ;-)
A Voice.
May 31st, 2013 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That be the same plastic wannabees that put your defeated troops on British ships and sailed them home to your motherland, so you could smuggle them in under the cover of darkness. Or was it Uruguay? Would not even accept, name or acknowledge your own and you call us plastic!
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, no you can not land them here, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. They are not ours!!!!!!
So the UN has told the C24 that it needs to change and it is subservient to the UN.
May 31st, 2013 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands has told it to change and it is supposed to act of behalf if the Falkland people no matter how they identify.
Gibraltar has told them they need to reform as they serve they interests of them and not a neighbouring country.
And French Polynesia has told them to fuck off.... in French of course.
“What we need now are creative solutions for the remaining Non-Self-Governing Territories. If the United Nations is to fulfil its obligations in supporting the legitimate aspirations of the peoples of these Territories, a pragmatic and realistic approach -- taking into account the specific circumstances of each -- is most likely to lead to concrete results.”
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
Message to the 2010 Session of the
Special Committee on Decolonization
25 February 2010
“We no longer have the luxury of indulging in rhetoric and rituals. Concrete action and tangible results are essential. It is time for a new kind of fully inclusive dialogue about decolonization. The risk of movement, while sometimes frightening, is far more preferable to the stagnation of the status quo.”
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
Message to the 2013 Session of the
Special Committee on Decolonization
21 February 2013
Think and his (ahem!) 'support group' are getting slaughtered in this thread.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shame really, because it brings out his worst hypocritical bigoted nonsense. It's not pretty...but a sickly entertaining car crash.
I have obly one thing to say about the UN.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bosnia.
Useless cunts!!M
Great speech. Mike Summers, like his fellow members of the Falklands Legislative Council seems to be a very decent and intelligent person who represents his island community in an excellent manner.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, the Falkland Islands population may not be large, but what is more important, quality or quantity?
In contrast, a country like Argentina has a population of 41 million and is governed by dunderheads and as a society has many ills. The Malvinistas and Kirchnerites who roam this site can carry on sprouting their ridiculous views in support of the indefensible, but thanks to their heros like Kirchner, Timmerman and others, their country is becoming a serious laughing stock. Your neighbours like Uruguay and Paraguay and Chile are feeling more and more uncomfortable about your presence as you allow your nation to descend into economic and social chaos as a result of pathetic governance and out of control corruption.
For many Argentinians today, their future must look better abroad. Certainly a country like Chile must seem an attractive destination, although that nation can do without the likes of 'no hopers' like our good mates Think, Marcos, and the other Malvinista trolls.
Sadly, it seems Argentina needs to suffer yet more serious economic misery before it finally dawns on these people that things need to change in their nation. To finally understand that Peronism just doesn't work and that corruption within governance should always be considered unacceptable and should be stamped out as far as possible. For example, that means hands off your court system for the purpose of political manipulation.
Good luck, Falkland Islanders, but I think your neighbours will need more luck, if they don't soon replace their poltical leadership with a far more enlightened vision.
122 Screenname
Jun 01st, 2013 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0”Think and his (ahem!) 'support group' are getting slaughtered in this thread.
Shame really, because it brings out his worst hypocritical bigoted nonsense. It's not pretty...but a sickly entertaining car crash.“
I think he's a little frustrated, trying to defend the insanity of CFK and her cronies.
No argument left, all he can do is belittle and browbeat the Brits on here, not to post, and tell us all how clever he is, ha ha!
Not sure who he's trying to convince?
:-D
Oh, ” Winky Winky wink wink”
“No argument left, all he can do is belittle and browbeat the Brits on here”
Jun 01st, 2013 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sums up Think in 2013 on these fora perfectly.
@117
Jun 01st, 2013 - 03:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0it is a pleasure for me to chat with men/women like you that read respectfully the others despite having different views .
With respect to monarchy
a) I am deeply republican, for me all men are equal there is no reason to give for life an individual or a family any special rights over the other members of society. I think all countries that have it should get rid of it.
b) I have noticed , it is said in my written staff, that monarchy is a big part (a key stone) of the problem of colonialism. One justifies and supports the other, it is a long thing to explain so is the real power that “symbolic” monarchs have.
c) Assuming FI gets free , there is no “royal falkland's family” to put on the throne of the islands. I remember Lisa Watson (Penguin News of FI) making jokes in Twitter about this fact.
d) Status like New Zeland and specially Canada (because they are imposing a british queen to “french” people of Quebec) are not justified, the monarchy is a colonial rest that constrains their freedom. Monarchy makes Canada less (politically) independent than USA.
With respect to my interest. First of all I am a pacifist, dialog is the way to do things right. Second I am a scientist (Physics PhD) so when I find a problem I analyse it and search a solution. Third I have been interested in politics in my country and the world since I learned to read. Fourth I see how this Falklands/Malvinas conflict is used by politicians of UK and RA to hide their incapacities and get support without any care about the consequences. Last but not least when I was almost 30 yo that consequences had been a thousand men dead.
I am thankful of your questions Steve. I shall not follow this thread any longer but may be we encounter in any other one, I hope so. Anyhow you can contact me for further comments or questions through the FIR blog.
I sort of like how confusing the Commonwealth Realms are to outsiders.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0127tipstonga
Jun 01st, 2013 - 05:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0” they are imposing a british queen to “french” people of Quebec) are not justified, the monarchy is a colonial rest that constrains their freedom.“
Even the intelligent and educated ones like tipstonga are sure that the Monarchy are ”colonial rulers“,
”Imposing“ and ”constraining“ the ”french” people of Quebec - actually, they are Canadian people of Quebec and it is their Queen, the Queen of Canada.
@127 - tipstonga
Jun 01st, 2013 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Her Majesty the Queen has a 90% approval rating. Most politicians would sacrifice their first born for those kind of approval ratings.
The people of the countries that have the Queen as Head of State can choose any time they wish to remove her and choose a politician instead. It's a little concept called self-determination.
Strangely enough the people of these countries and territories are happy with their form of government, even the Canadian people who live in the province of Quebec, who have had referendums in the past and CHOOSE to remain with the current political makeup that Canada has.
People like you are the worst kind of people. You want to IMPOSE your belief in republicanism onto others, simply because you do not like other forms of democracy.
How do you know if a Constitutional Monarchy is better or worse than a Republican democracy unless you have lived under both systems and can compare them?
The UK tried the republican way once, for 11 years we were without a Monarch. We didn't like it, it wasn't for us.
Your dislike of British Monarchy stems from the fact that you do not understand it. The Monarchy can only exist by consent of the people. In fact from its earliest days the Monarch has always had a special bond with the people, and it's the Monarchs sacred duty to protect the people from unscrupulous politicians and foreign invaders alike.
The UN also needs to recognise that the only people with the right to say whether a territory should be in the decolonisation list are the people of that territory themselves. Every territory on that list should have a referendum, and in true DEMOCRATIC spirit the results should be respected, and the territories removed should they wish to be.
By the way not all republics are democratic or a good thing. Look at the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Or the People's Republic of China.
@Tipstonga
Jun 01st, 2013 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have some interesting points on your website but you are far too focused on monarchy - it is a red herring. In the UK the Queen has such high approval because she is a figurehead but who has no actual power. If she had power then she would divide people. If we replaced her with an elected Head of State then that person would likely to be a failed politician from either the left or right who would again divide people. Replacing the Monarchy in the UK with a President would make no difference to the Falklands issue.
The other issue you raise is how the Falklands are used as a distraction in our 2 countries. The Falklands is only a minor issue in Britain, we do not obsess about it the way that Argentine politicians do. The people of the Falklands are entirely free to do as they please, they run their own affairs and can have full independence as soon as they want it. So what you don't seem to appreciate is that the islands are already free. Again, British colonialism is a red herring. It is history.
Indeed Australia is sometimes called a “crowned republic” because we effectively have a non-political person appointed by parliament as our head of state 99.9% of the time.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Canada is pretty much the same.
Governor-General appointed by the Prime Minsiter who is elected by the people.
The Queen is almost like a constitutional guardian.
The US and many copycat republican models such as those throughout LatAm have:
The legislative arm
The executive arm
The judicial arm.
Australia, Canada and others have:
The legislative arm
The executive arm
The judicial arm, and
The constitutional guardian arm (being the monarch).
If anything, this makes our system superior to the republican model.
It would seem the executive, legislature and judiciary have not always been enough for many countries such as Argentina and Brazil to have slipped into undemocratic rule.
“They (the Argentine Government) implicitly and explicitly deny Falkland Islanders the right to self determination. This should be anathema to this Committee and to all people who support basic human rights”, says MLA Summers.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not so. It was the Committee, not the Argentine Government, which took the right of self-determination permanently away from the islanders, when it ruled that the inhabitants of the territory are a “population” and not a “people”. As a population their rights are reduced.
MLA Summers, the FIB and the British Government are manfestly desperate for the Special Committee on Decolonization to remove the Falkland Islands/Malvinas from the list of Non-Self-Governing-Territories. So, as well as blaming the Argentine Government, Summers makes an inventive case for such a removal by discrediting the C24 and calling into question its processes (“the C24 has signally failed to reduce the number of listed territories, and what to do about it”).
In fact it is above all the British Government which is responsible for the lack of progress. Why? Because they cling to an islanders’ right to self-determination, which, as per Resolution 2065 (XX) Question of the Falkland Islands, the islanders do not have and because they refuse to enter a bilateral dialogue with the Argentine Government, without the presence of the islanders.
Summers says that the Committee is out of date and criticizes it for not adopting the “fourth way”. What on earth is that? It is pertinent to remember that members of the UN secretariat visited the Falkland Islands/Malvinas and reported in depth on the conditions prevailing there and on the history of the islands prior to drawing up the resolution 2065 (XX) Question of the Falkland Islands/Malvinas, which was passed by the General Assembly in December 1965. The substance of the dispute has not changed one bit since that time. That dispute is over the ownership of the territory, not the nationality or rights of the islanders.
@133
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0More bullshit from you....your argument was totally wrapped to shreds on a previous thread and you come back here and repeat it...are you Raul?
Explain how none of the other eight British Overseas territories (not Falklands or Gibraltar) have been removed from the list,. none are subjugated peoples, have a sovereignty dispute, nor wish to be considered colonies....why? Because the C24 is a Latino talking shop, enjoying first class flights and taking the piss of international tax payers.
Neither are the cases of Gibraltar the Falklands anything to do with the C24. If these are sovereignty disputes, then they belong in the same category as Kashmir, the west Bank, Taiwan, Paracel and Spratley islands, etc etc...none of these are on the C24 list.
The point of the matter, is the C24 exceed their mandate by becoming involved in sovereignty disputes. Their job is to protect the rights of the PEOPLE of the NSGTs, a job they are abjectly failing to do...in fact in many cases they are doing the opposite.
However, the winds are changing. I give the C24 two years in its current form, and the list will be down to two or three in five years (neither the Falklands nor Gibraltar will be on it).
@133 - Devovled Think sock puppet
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0The committe can't rule on anything. It is a non-entity with NO power whatsoever.
However, please give the UN definition as to what makes up a people.
Oh you can't can you, because the UN hasn't defined it. That means that ALL people (including the Falkland Islanders) have the right to self-determination.
It is frustrating for you because you know this to be true.
By the way UN General Assembly resolution is now defunct. Extinct. Gone. Finished. Over and done with. Null and void. Why? Because the Argentines decided to ignore it and use force to steal the Falklands from its true and native owners, the Falkland Islanders.
So on the 2 April 1982 UNGA resolution ceased to be. The UK is under no obligation to talk to Argentina about anything, because it was Argentina that broke that resolution. And it was Argentina that ignored a LEGALLY binding UNSC resolution - 502.
If the dispute is over ownership of the Falkland Islands, then I suggest that Argentina presents its case to the ONLY body in the world that can actually settle this matter: the International Court of Justice.
In fact, the UK has on 3 seperate occasions invited Argentina to do just that, but Argentina has refused.
So why would Argentina refuse to go to the ICJ? I mean if they truly own the Falklands and have the EVIDENCE to back it up, surely there is nothing for them to worry about.
Oh, I see the flaw in that. Argentina requires EVIDENCE that it owns the Falklands, and it has NONE. Not one shred of evidence that the Falklands were EVER Argentinian.
Lets recap:
1. Left to Argentina in Spains 'will'. Impossible as the Spain ceded sovereingty of the Islands nearly 2 decades before recognising Argentina's existence.
2. Geographical - don't make me laugh the most pathetic excuse yet.
3. Usurped by the British - er...no...they were already British before the UP sent its murderers and rapists there.
4. Because we want it - won't cut any ice with the ICJ.
Tough luck.
@133
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Two points with your post.
1. The UN Charter overrides any UN General Assembly Resolution, which is not binding anyway, and the Charter very definitely states, in Article 1, paragraph 2:
“To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;”
2. Where, as in what UN document, is the difference between 'peoples' and 'population' defined, and more importantly where is the right to self determination specifically removed from a 'population'.
I would also draw your attention to the fact that, although not binding, Resolution 2065 does state:
“bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations”
prior to the mention of “interests of the population”.
@ Devolverislas
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UN has NEVER said the islands to belong to Argentina - we cannot know for sure what the ICJ would find because Argentina refuses to take the case there. The UN merely called for negotiations, which took place in the 60s & 70s. The islanders rejected the outcome of those negotiations and Argentina subsequently resorted to a war which they lost. There were more recent negotiations on fishing and oil which Argentina walked away from and most recently talks in London that Argentina had requested but then failed to show up for. It is hardly surprising therefore that Mr Moon thinks that Britain is not in breach of any UN resolutions.
What else have you got?
The fourth way:
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 01) independence
2) integration with administering power
3) integration with 3rd party
4) To be content with the status quo with the “administering power” as proven by the people of the territory voting to maintain it!
The first three have all been acceptable, and for countries with a substantial population independence has been used. The right to self-determination for plenty of implanted people!
The French used the second way to remove all of its territories from the list, but the Falkland Islanders don't want to be part of the St Ives constituency voting in a UK General election, they prefer what they have.
The Islanders certainly do not what the third way, being colonised by a violent, aggressive, corrupt neighbour.
So, as all 10 of the BOTs want the fourth way, and the C24 is supposed to act in the interest of the PEOPLE of the NSGTs...give them what they want!!!
But that would mean no more Latino kicking of the UK, no more weasel words supporting Argentine colonialism, no more first class flight jollies, no more expenses,
Surely 30 years of taking the piss should be enough!!
Oh and one more thing about the UN:
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK pays 12 times as much to fund the UN than Argentina does. In fact we pay more than all of South America put together. So the C24 is being funded by the very people it so despises.
@133 Devolverislas:
Jun 01st, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure you know this and just keep spewing nonsense because it is all you have, but...
http://untreaty.un.org/cod/avl/ha/dicc/dicc.html
There is nothing in the language or the spirit of resolution 1514 (XV) inhibiting its legal extension to situations involving relations between European colonial Powers and other European or European-derived peoples overseas.
@133
Jun 01st, 2013 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0It would appear that the Secretary General of the UN does not agree with you either.
“I don’t think Security Council members are violating relevant UN resolutions. The impression is that people who are living under certain conditions should have access to certain level of capacities so that they can decide on their own future. And that is the main criteria of the main UN bodies. Having independence or having some kind of government in their territories. I don’t think it’s an abuse or violation of relevant UN resolutions, the UN has been working strongly from its very beginning to help non autonomous territories to achieve independence”
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/un-confirms-that-britain-is-not-in-breach-of-resolutions-over-the-falklands/#comments
Devolverislas
Jun 01st, 2013 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0STOP lying.
Your first point is a LIE.
Your second point is a LIE.
Your third point is a LIE.
And your fourth point is plain stupidity. Treating the islands as if it is still 1965.
It's 2013. Get with the times.
It isn't 1833.
It isn't 1945.
It isn't 1965.
It isn't 1982.
Either come back with proof or links. If you don't then we would be correct in assuming you can't back up what you say.
Amusing how Deveolver,Islas 1833, Marcos .Think and all of them churn out the same old prehistoric arguments based on who allegedly did what tp who 150-300 years ago! They really are all getting desperate as the Islands and the rest of the world gradually moves on and gradually leaves Argentina in it,s ancient timewarp.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0None of them seem able to find any concrete solid physical practical evidence of even their neighbours supporting them!
Brazil just gets on quietly with life and economics and business.
Uruguay fools Kirschener with its speel about banning FI flagged vessels- because it knows full well that all FI flagged vesels are entitled to fly the Red Ensign or the Spanish their flag instead - and continue to operate as normal. Even the Royal Navy call in still. Chile mouths a few meaningless words at the UN - and carries on with good links and trade with the Islands.
All a bit sad for Argentina
@143 Islander1
Jun 01st, 2013 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I think that Argentina has missed the window for being able to incorporate the Falkland Islands.
It is 2013 and the world really has changed and moved on in the past couple of decades. With cheap international air travel and the internet, the Falklands are no longer a small territory at the end of the world isolated from everyone other than their neighbour.
Now news, information and goods can be gotten with the click of a mouse. Expensive phone calls have been replaced by VOIP. Letters by email.
Argentina was once the link with the outside world for the Islanders, but that is no longer needed.
Sure, Argentina can frustrate the Islanders, but it can't actually stop anything. They are not trapped on the Islands. The Falklands other neighbours, Chile and Uruguay, pay lip service to Argentina and for all intents and purposes treat the Islands as a neighbour with respect.
In a simpler and less connected world, Argentina missed her chance. It shows if you really study their current actions.
José Malvineros - ¡que cerebro más pequeño! Your “musings” make no sense as you clearly have no grasp of the facts surrounding the Falklands/Malvinas. You rely on the myths and fairy tales imposed upon you since you were in kindergarten and the orders and instructions you receive from La Cámpora! ¡Nadie le hace caso!
Jun 01st, 2013 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@130 and others that shifted the issue to monarchy
Jun 01st, 2013 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In never said the FI problem is monarchy itself . The FI problem is colonialism. Colonialism is related with monarchy -and other factors- but it also happens in a republican state like Argentina. That is one of the theses of my papers BOTH United Kingdom and Argentina sustain colonial policies in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict.
Monarchist posts omit the fact that the “constitutional guardian” in the republics is the Supreme Court which is far superior institution than putting that job in the hands of a family with no special knowledge for the task . Moreover nobody can deny that members of the european monarchic families has shown ways of life and scandals that are not acceptable for a Supreme Court Judge.
Other fact ignored is that all over “monarchic Europe” only just 1/4 of the population support monarchy while a similar amount are actively against it The remnant 50% is not interested in the matter. Opposition has shown strong recently in Holland and required a great work to cover and silent it. Support for monarchy in Spain has fall so strongly that had made the return to republic a current issue.
Monarchy is neither harmless not powerless, who tells you that they are only “symbolic” lies.
Monarchy cannot be supported without contradiction by any one that sustains the Human Rights Declaration. Feudal times had past.
@127 The only way that the Falkland Islands would choose to become a republic is if they declared independence unilaterally and Britain refused to recognise it, like with Rhodesia. However, a parliamentary republic is still superior to a tinpot presidential banana Latin American republic. Spain in the 19th century wasn't a constitutional monarchy, and actually became a republic itself. Brazil was different because the King of Portugal was based there in exile.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only reason why Quebec is not independent is because not enough people voted for independence in 1980 and 1995 - the Queen isn't stopping anyone!
So the people of the Falklands are no different from the metropolis? Pathetic! The people in St Pierre et Miquelon, which is a French collectivity are of French descent - does that mean they should be part of Canada?
“According to Professor Argentine Marcelo Kohen, 100,000! Nigerians and 10,000 Salvadorans respectively they were found living respectively in Cameroon and Honduras by judgment of the International Court of Justice, despite having invoked the self-determination.”
Well, at least the British Cameroons got to choose their future; the Northern part voted to become part of Nigeria, the Southern part to become part of Cameroon. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13148483
Tipsonga - a bit silly claiming that the Law is more independent in a Republic as compared to a Monarchy nation! - Assume you do not live in Argentina then!
Jun 01st, 2013 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0o lease show me the survey results
Summers says that the Committee is out of date and criticizes it for not adopting the “fourth way”. What on earth is that?
Jun 01st, 2013 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Resolution 2625 introduced a fourth option for decolonisation to the three in Resolution 1541
1- The establishment of a sovereign and independent State,
2- the free association or
3- integration with an independent State or
4- the emergence into any other political status freely determined by a people constitute modes of implementing the right of self-determination by that people.
The BOTs fall under the fourth option and should be removed from the list
“”“Moreover nobody can deny that members of the european monarchic families has shown ways of life and scandals that are not acceptable for a Supreme Court Judge.”“”
Jun 01st, 2013 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...such as being tied-up on the bed by top-tier call-girls you mean?
'coz, you know, all judges are shining examples of the very best in man...
-
“”“Not so. It was the Committee, not the Argentine Government, which took the right of self-determination permanently away from the islanders, when it ruled that the inhabitants of the territory are a “population” and not a “people”. As a population their rights are reduced. ”“”
LoL.. well if you cant find any real evidence just MAKE IT UP INSTEAD!
what a plonker.
@ 146 Tipstonga
Jun 01st, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again you misunderstand our system. The Queen is not a judge she is the figurehead at the top of the system, but she has no actual power. Yes she “appoints” PMs, “signs” bills into law, and delivers the “Queens's Speech” declaring what “her” government will do. However each of these are really just traditions or theatre. She cannot refuse to appoint the PM who wins the election, nor refuse to sign any bill approved by parliament. She cannot even write the “Queen's Speech” it is written for her by the PM.
Please note, we ALSO have a Supreme Court comprising senior judges - who are NOT members of the royal family! So we have an independent judiciary, and a government formed almost entirely from elected MPs in the parliament. The one thing the Queen does do is meet with the PM once a week. I've always liked the idea that PMs who may be developing delusions of their own grandeur (Blair springs to mind though Thatcher also) still have to go to the Palace to explain themselves to someone who has seen PMs come and go all the way back to Churchill. A little bit of tradition and humility is a good thing in my view.
I am concerned that you consider “British Colonialism” to still exist. It ended in the 50s/60s. It is a historical stick to beat us with, like calling modern Germany “Nazi”. It is a term of abuse that is no longer relevant to modern Europe. We do not claim any territory we do not possess and so are not imperial and are not keeping anyone in subjugation who want to be free. So how are we still colonial?
“”“Again you misunderstand our system. ”“”
Jun 01st, 2013 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nope, that isnt the case.
People like Tipsi WONT recognise reality because it doesnt meld very well with their desired view on “how things should be run”.
Any “misunderstanding” is therefore either deliberate or ignorant; if you re-read his/her posts you will see clearly the swinging over-generalisations and twee comments are designed to cater to a predisposed perspective - they have very little to do with reality.
For one thing exactly on what planet is the “European Monarchies” existing? It sure as heck isn't on planet Earth... if the guy had written his post 50 or even 100 years ago then he might have a point (although not about the UK constitutional monarchy even back then) but in today's worlds it is horribly out-dated and out of context, not too mention horribly inaccurate.
It, like many other radicals, cant see beyond the need to “prove” that their personal vision of “the best political system” is both right and logically superior to all others. The irony is that by forcing these pre-defined attitudes upon other people, they are seriously impacting upon those peoples freedom to chose their own path and system, political or other.
“”“Moreover nobody can deny that members of the european monarchic families has shown ways of life and scandals that are not acceptable for a Supreme Court Judge.”“”
This sentence really makes no sense, both because politicians have a far worse history than even monarchies and Judges arent exactly pillars of the community either. Most importantly though it seems to ignore completely that constitutional monarch hold no real power - so wht they get up to isnt at all relevant... but i'd challenge anybody to produce a solid case to show that HMQEII has been anything but a fantastic monarch who has an unprecedented level of approval in many countries.
Or, go take a look at Zimbabwe, its leaders and its court judges for an example of how naive & stupid tipsi's comments are.
And Argentina was not in the Seminar? This would be weird, unless Mercopress is ONLY interested in disseminating info on who pays him!
Jun 01st, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting ommission. Check this: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/gacol3251.doc.htm
Jun 01st, 2013 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinastated that every year, the United Nations reiterate that the special and particular case of colonialism in the question of the Malvinas Islands can only come to an end through the resumption of negotiations over sovereignty between the Governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Not only have all States recognized the existence of this century-long dispute, but also there exists a mandate to resolve it as soon as possible through negotiations.
The United Kingdom, while dismissing the Argentine claims, started shaping a “tailored” colony in the Islands by bringing settlers from the metropolis and implementing rigorous immigration rules aimed at preventing the entry and/or settling of Argentine citizens from the continent. These prohibitions are still in force today. Indeed, the ultimate goal of the United Kingdom is to control the composition of the inhabitants of the islands in order to justify the implementation of non-existent rights allegedly based on international law. The United Kingdom uses this excuse to illegitimately exploit renewable and non-renewable natural resources that belong to Argentina, as well as to deploy its military forces in the South Atlantic ‑ a peaceful area ‑ under arguments that only hide its real intentions.
Argentina, he added, though having no doubt over its sovereignty rights over the Malvinas Islands, South Georgia Islands and South Sandwich Islands and the surrounding maritime areas, is willing to comply with the international community’s call on the question of the Malvinas Islands, which is a national priority for the Argentine Government, and in which the territorial integrity of our nation is at stake.
Today, Argentina’s cause is a Latin American cause, a Caribbean cause, and an African cause. Indeed, this has been expressed in declarations adopted at the Community
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/gacol3252.doc.htm
Jun 01st, 2013 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL..fucking LOL
Sweden, Denmark and Norway are more stable, prosperous and egalitarian than many republics, not because they are monarchies, but because they got their priorities right, by introducing wide-reaching social reforms before constitutional ones. The King of Sweden doesn't appoint the government, summon and dissolve parliament or sign bills into law any more, the speaker does that.
Jun 01st, 2013 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In 1905, the Norwegian parliament elected a Danish prince as King, but he insisted on this being confirmed in a referendum, which it was. Finland nearly became a monarchy, and its parliament elected a German prince to be King in 1918, but after Germany lost the war, he renounced the throne. Iceland became a republic as it wasn't practical to keep the King of Denmark as King of Iceland when Denmark was under German occupation.
Lucky the Swedes don't trust their Supreme Court judges with those powers, seeing as one of them had a rent boy - http://www.thelocal.se/1497/20050526/ (It's against the law in Sweden to pay for sex.)
The stupidest thing ever Brazil did was to abolish the monarchy, particularly after the Emperor abolished slavery. At least the people of Italy and Greece voted to abolish their monarchies in referendums, and retained the parliamentary system, in which the head of state is separate from the head of government, and is a ceremonial figure, not some silly tinpot Latin American-style one.
You may LOL as much as you like but NOBODY seems to have supported the islanders. Regardless if how many referenda you may put in place there will still be a dispute on sovereignty between Argentina and UK (and the latter dies include the islanders of course)
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 12:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0And yet Argentina doesn't have the islands!
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0So much for all this support.
LOL
You DON'T either, contested status is paramount. Keep drnking, nothing else you cant do, maybe another referendum?
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0147
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where did you get that lie? Since when a Sentence Judicial vote it???????? We are talking exclusively about the Bakassi Peninsula.
MechaF- where do you get this silly idea that the falklands put a barrier in the way of Argentines wishing to settle here?
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 02:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0FACT for you; Falklands Immigration is 100% under the control of the Falkland Islands Govt (not UK) and FI Immigration Law made by the elected Govt in which no Uk official or governor has a vote.
The Law treats Argentines-British-Chilean-American-Canadian - or any other national 100% the same - they need a work permit(ie a confirmed job with an employer) and a basic medical health record certificate as well as a basic criminal record check - and an address where they will live - and that is all any immigrant needs.
Do please tell me also what are the resources that UK is exploiting?
All resources- Fisheries,Mineral etc etc are the property of the Islands Govt and all rtevenues from those resources taxation/royalties accrues 100% to the Falkland Islands Govt - NOT UK.
Sorry to destroy your fantasy but this is a FACT
Military Forces - Since 1982 the UK has gradually DECREASED its force levels in the Islands - again a FACT.
Another fact - your Defence Minister is on public record stating that IF the british forces were not present here - then Argentine forces would reoccupy.
In other words it is the brtish forces here that Prevent us Islanders from being forces against out will into being COLONIZED by Argentina.
“contested status is paramount”
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 06:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0You carry on protesting MuckyF. What good does it do you?
Just don't invade again, otherwise we will be forced to retaliate.
I am quite happy for there to be “contested status” for the next 10000 years, where the islanders get to live in prosperity and you get to stay 300 miles away.
What this thread is about however is the C24, and whether they will continue to be able to pack themselves full of Latino sycophants and deliberately work against the very people they are in position to defend.
If you ascertain is true, and nobody in the C24 “supports the islanders”, including the Bermudans, the Pitcairnians, the St Helenans or the Falklanders...it would appear the C24 is failing in its primary and only duty.
My feeling is that even dumb Latinos can hear the gravy train pulling into the station, and will soon forget their Argie “friends” when it looks like their expense accounts will be threatened.
@154
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 07:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you not embarrassed about the fact that the C24 press release restricts the views of the territories (they are supposed to be helping) to a sentence or two? But they give several paragraphs to Argentina who aren't even on the list. They shouldn't even have been there but this corrupt sub-sub-committee exceeds its powers every year to push its own agenda.
If you think this is helping you it isn't. It helps the islanders by showing proper countries what the islanders are up against.
@154
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0With respect to the subject press release it may be of interest to those who made statements along the lines of “Argentina and the UK should start talking on Sovereignty in compliance with UN Resolution” that:
1. The Secretary General of the UN last November stated:
“I don’t think Security Council members are violating relevant UN resolutions. The impression is that people who are living under certain conditions should have access to certain level of capacities so that they can decide on their own future. And that is the main criteria of the main UN bodies. Having independence or having some kind of government in their territories. I don’t think it’s an abuse or violation of relevant UN resolutions, the UN has been working strongly from its very beginning to help non autonomous territories to achieve independence.”
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/un-confirms-that-britain-is-not-in-breach-of-resolutions-over-the-falklands/#comments
2. There has been no such Resolution since 1988, shortly after which the UK and Argentina 'did start talking', but Argentina walked away from those talks and threw out what agreements had been reached.
These two points indicate, to me at least, that these presenters' have not fully reviewed the situation.
@154
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“and implementing rigorous immigration rules aimed at preventing the entry and/or settling of Argentine citizens from the continent. ”
Argentines are not in the islands in large numbers for a really, simple, reason -most can't hack the climate/don't like living there.
The only way Argentina has ever got its people to go to the Falklands in any numbers is to either send criminals who didn't want to go there (1832), ie, a penal colony means the people aren't going there to settle, they are forced to go and 1982 when the troops ordered to go (forced to go)couldn't wait to return home and return north to a hotter climate.
However, Lafone's gauchos from Argentina were allowed to settle in the Falkland Islands in the 19th century, they wanted to work there and were allowed to which just disproves what you have said. It is perhaps the gaucho/Argentine blood of rebellion that mixed with British stoicism that creates the Islander DNA, ironically helps the islanders to repel Argentina's ridiculous claims.
“Today, Argentina’s cause is a Latin American cause, a Caribbean cause, and an African cause”.
It's also a lost cause.
@154 Mecha F: www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2013/gacol3251.doc.htm
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for that...PMSL
If ever a document showed that the organisation in question was not fit for purpose, then you have just highlighted it.
I never cease to be astonished by how stupid some of the pro-Argentine posters on this website are.
@ 161 Islander1
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now we're getting down to brass tacks…….
“Falklands Immigration is 100% under the control of the Falkland Islands Govt ”
“The Law treats Argentines-BRITISH-Chilean-American-Canadian - or any other national 100% the same ”
I'm confused…….you are British…..you have no other nationality….in British law you are not a people other than British people living in the South Atlantic…….a colony of Brits. Living on British Territory.
“All resources- Fisheries,Mineral etc etc are the property of the Islands Govt and all revenues from those resources taxation/royalties accrues 100% to the Falkland Islands Govt - NOT UK.”
Here lies the problem…….“What's yours is mine and what's mine is my own”
Here is what you presently enjoy.
an unconditional right to live, work and study in the United Kingdom
an entitlement to use the British/EEA immigration channel at United Kingdom ports of entry
an entitlement to apply for United Kingdom social security and welfare benefits (although those with indefinite leave to enter may also apply)
a right to vote and to stand for public office in the United Kingdom (since everyone with the right of abode is a Commonwealth Citizen these rights are conditional upon living in the United Kingdom).
None of this is reciprocal for the Mugs in the UK
This is the reason you don't want either integration or independence, you already enjoy more rights than a British Citizen living in Britain and are quite happy for the British taxpayer to fund this.
You don't want to share……..anything!……with anyone!
@124 “
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly, it seems Argentina needs to suffer yet more serious economic misery before it finally dawns on these people that things need to change in their nation. To finally understand that Peronism just doesn't work and that corruption within governance should always be considered unacceptable and should be stamped out as far as possible. For example, that means hands off your court system for the purpose of political manipulation. ”
There is a problem, the people won't ever abandon Peronism. After Videla and Menem the people are convinced that it's proven that neoliberalism leads to misery and hence stick with Peronism. Thanks to the memories of the early 80s and 2001, and the welfare of Peron's first two governments, which the people want, there is no way Peronism will be abandoned. You also need to remember that people depend on Peronism to survive. There are lots of people relying on welfare, or jobs creating by extreme protectionism. A transition to a free-market economy would cause a massive depression which the people won't tolerate. I don't think Peronism will end anytime soon.
@167 ThinkVoice
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I seem to remember you stating that Canadians, Australians, and all non-UK citizens were not eligible to comment or “stick their noses into British affairs”.
By your requirements, that would mean Argentinians should butt out as well, as it is none of their business.
@169
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When have I said otherwise? The British Government needs to rethink it's whole strategy and relations with BOT's and stop trying to pretend anything has changed, they value the strategic and economic value of these possessions! For future interests.
Who wouldn't ....Falklands......Antarctica, St Helena - Ascension......military leapfrogging and supply.
@ 167 Think
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given the rubbish they have to put-up with from you lot, we don't begrudge them anything. I really don't see why it bothers you so much. They work hard in sometimes difficult conditions. They fully deserve whatever rewards they reap. Why are you so envious of them, it really eats you up, doesn't it? The islands aren't yours and you wouldn't be willing to do what the Islanders do even if they were. BTW, what nationality is this sock-puppet supposed to be?
@170 think
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“When have I said otherwise? The British Government needs to rethink it's whole strategy and relations with BOT's and stop trying to pretend anything has changed, they value the strategic and economic value of these possessions! For future interests.
Who wouldn't ....Falklands......Antarctica, St Helena - Ascension......military leapfrogging and supply.”
So, if you are claiming to be British, what is your beef??
It's all good, right?
@172
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I haven't claimed to be anything!
No it's not all good, the average person in Britain has been led to believe the islands are British and no sovereignty issues, the average Argentinian has been led to believe the islands belong to them and there is a sovereignty issue.
There is information and history available on the net…..but is it 100% accurate, is all the info available, in the public domain? Doubtful, if you play poker it's not a good idea to show your hand till it's necessary.
Yet it doesn't stop the majority of people on here disparaging, debasing and insulting people for what they believe........unless of course, it's funny!
A_Hole
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The historical data is accurate and agreed by both sides, do you not remember when you stated (as your Think persona) that on January 6th 1833, 59 “souls” left the Falklands and this is confirmed in your (Argentinas) national archives.
These 59 “souls” were made up of 55 of Pinedos crew, and four Uruguayians who were part of the Brisbane community.
The 55 arrived in November 1832 under Esteban Mestevier, who they promptly murdered and raped his wife in front of their children.
These 55 have variously been called “the original population”, the “argentine population” and the “Argentine authorities” by the current Argentine Government.
I prefer “rag-tag band of rapists and murderers from the United Provinces who were there for 2 months”.
The “problem” with the majority of Malvinista arguments is that anything in the islands remotely “Latin”, they read as Argentine. We even had a moron claiming sovereignty because the islands “might have been seen by an Italian in the 1500s”, which is funny as the moons of Jupiter were first seen by an Italian in the 1500s are they Argentine too.
Argentina has virtually no history on the islands, France does, Spain does, Britain does, but virtually no Argentine...there is no claim.
@ monkey
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The historical data is accurate and agreed by both sides”
So both Governments have agreed this
Post the link I'd like to read it.
All you are saying is that who ever has occupied them for the longest owns them.....great argument in law......not.
a-hole
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I am saying that the data in your historical archives, that only 59 people left on the Sarandi in 1833 is agreed by us.
As is the fact that Spain left voluntarily in 1811, via Montevideo.
As far as a point of law...now let me see, “the rights of all people to self-determination”
Versus..
Twice in history for two month periods we have tried and failed the islands by force, the first punctuated by rape and murder, the second by cowardice and indiscriminate laying of minefields.
A magical monkey
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah I thought not, I was quite looking forward to the link.......that was a double quick backtrack on what you stated or are we having problems with the English language?
Now let me see, the rights of British Citizens.... to self-determination......mmmm.. shouldn't have taken the citizenship, I think!
@ Think
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Law”? “revealing your hand”? Is Argentina finally going to the ICJ?
Would this have not been better done before 1982? Are you quite sure that your case is getting stronger with time?
@173thinkedover
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think
Under your “A-Voice” pseudonym, you have as I stated, tried to disqualify non-Brits from commenting or “sticking their nose”into British affairs and internal matters.
You then carry on and make statements and comments yourself.
By your own rules and your own logic, you are not qualified or entitled to do so - unless you are representing yourself as British.
Now you bob and weave, “ I never claimed to be anything!”
So, which is it??
Are you Non-British, therefore a foreign national who is unhappy with the BOT status of the Falklands, for your own reasons - according to you, not entitled to comment?
OR
You are British, as you imply, and therefore continue to comment on British affairs ??
If you are claiming to be British, I would have to relegate you to the Lunatic Fringe, as the overwhelming public sentiment in Britain is in favour of supporting the Falklands BOT , its people, its resources, and it's Self Determination against aggressors and intimidating, covetous neighbours like Argentina.
If you were British, you would know that.
British or non-British ???
Why would you be evasive?
Before you say anything about me, let me clearly state,
I AM BRITISH.
The three rules of fascism
Jun 02nd, 2013 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Make shit up
2. Scream about it
3. Kill peo
Back on Topic:
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0As Mike Summers is saying very clearly, it is up to the inhabitants of the islands, the ones who have made their homes there, to chose how they want to live and who they want to live with, trade with, and share their destiny with.
They have shouted it loud and clear.
Nobody else has a say.
If the UK invests in, or aids the Falklands, that is up to the UK.
Certainly it has nothing to do with Argentina.
167 A-Voice- Fantasy still exists I see!
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can assure you that yes although I have indeed the right of entry into Uk and to live and work there.
I do NOt have the right to vote - i would have to resdide there for whatever their qua;ifying period is first.
I do nay have the right to all their social welfare - uness I were to reside there and qualify for whatever the period is.
If I go there just on holiday - I do NOT have automatic right to their NHS.
If I were to go to study in the UK - I would have to PAY for it! Just as Falkland Islands Govt PAYS the UK Universities for our students who go there - and also PAYS the sixth form Colleges our students go to etc etc.
You really do have a strange understanding of reality?
Now do you see - we are a financially and judicially SEPERATE British Overseas Territory.
Britain funds NOTHING here in the Islands other than Defence - and their share of the costs of Govt House.
Once the Oil Royalties start to flow it is likley that about 2020 the Falklands will also pay UK for our Defence Costs.
A-hole
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0No backtrack at all.
Argentina and Britain both know the facts concerning the Falklands, at various times historians on both sides have repeated the same “facts” to justify their claims.
These facts concern who lived on the islands and when, who left and when, and whether their leaving was voluntary.
The problem is that at various times, the Argentine government has lied, and been caught doing so. Certainly, the Malvinistas lie all the time, and so do a number of Argentinas friends.
There are three points that are widely disagreed on, and neither are historical facts, but more opinion. The first and most important is inheritance from Spain.
Argentina has failed to give any evidence as to why genuine and undeniable Spanish rights to at least partial sovereignty passed to them, as opposed to any other SA country, Britain or just expired.
The Spanish left voluntarily in 1811
The Spanish went to Montevideo and then back to Spain
The Spanish never ceded rights to the UP
The islands were empty in 1814, there was no population to claim self determination
So, if Spain's sovereignty expired, there is nothing that says their rights transferred to Argentina, as opposed to Chile (closer), Uruguay (where the last settlers went to), Britain (who also had historic claims) or outer Mongolia (seemingly a similar strength claim to Argtardia).
So the historical facts are clear, their interpretation is not.
The second set of clear facts concern Vernet, and exactly who was expelled in 1833. As above we know that 59 “souls” left (it's in your National archives).
None of these were Vernet,..he'd fucked off years before. It doesn't stop you dragging out his descendants though! He left a British guy in charge of his business.
Despite what Raul says, and the Nicauraguan delegate at the C24, no population was expelled, even most Argie politicians don't claim that anymore. It is a LIE.
So it just leaves the Argie authorities..the Mestevier crew...what happened to him?
@183
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have seen it posted by some RG supporters that the Falklands were part of the Viceroyalty of Río de la Plata. What is interesting there is that in 1776 when King Charles III of Spain created the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata the boundaries of said Viceroyalty did not encompass the Falkland Islands although the Viceroy did administer the Islands as a dependency of the Viceroyalty. As Spain did not formally acknowledge the Argentine Confederation until 1859 it is difficult to see how Argentina can claim to have inherited the Islands from Spain when they (Argentina) had acknowledged in 1850 that they had no claim to the Islands.
@184
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0The “inheritance” portion of the argument is the key aspect, and the malvinistas cannot show why and how the Falkland Islands passed from Spain to Argentina.
1) Spain had voluntarily left the islands prior to 1814 leaving only a plaque on the ground. Exactly the same as the British left.
2) The Spanish civilians didnt go to Argentina, they went to Montevideo and back to Spain
3) There is evidence to suggest the Spanish civilians actually fought against the Buenos Aires uprising.
4) Nobody was left on the islands to choose whether they became Argentine, Uruguayan, Chilean, British or Mongolian.
As of 1811, there was a Spanish claim supported by a plaque and a British claim supported by a plaque and NO ARGENTINE claim.
Spain have never attempted to reestablish their claim. Which as of 1811 leaves the British claim (never relinquished) the strongest.
However, I would be the first to concede and agree that a plaque doesnt guarentee sovereignty, for that you need a civilian population that supports it, or certainly that was convention in the early 1800s.
So, the question then comes, did anything that happened between 1811 and 1833 constitute an Argentine civilian population.
The Mestevier/Pinedo group, who were expelled, were murderers, rapists, vagabonds, were only on the islands 2 months, and were equally if not more guilty of trying to usurp the islands than Captain Onslow. Not a strong sovereignty claim.
The Vernet/Brisbane community certainly in its concept was not representative of any nation, although at some point Vernet did accept a role for the UP, however Vernet had left the islands long before 1833 and left Brisbane in charge, who accepted a role for Britain..and has subsequently been called “a British authority” by the Argentines when talking about the Goacho murders.
So it would seem that no inheritance was transfered as there was noone to transfer it, and neither tiny group in the 1830s established definitive Argentine sovereignty..far from it
@185
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing I can add to your eloquent comments is that Vernet was there with British permission, in addition to his 'authority' from the UP.
In my view he was trying to do one of two things:
1. Hedge his bets and go with the 'winner'.
2. Play the two 'powers' off against each other to get the best deal for himself.
OR, even I suppose, some combination of 1 & 2.
In any event I do not think that in an unbiased arena the RG's claim would stand the proverbial 'cat in hells' chance.
@134 @138 Monkey Magic
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot comment on the C24’s bias against the UK, which you allege.
The job of the Special Committee on Decolonization is, as per resolution 1514, to remove “colonialism in all its forms”. The Falkland Islands remain a form of colonialism. They remain a colonial territory, which is connected parentally to the UK. That is clear to the whole world, except the British themselves. The limited forms of self-government which have been introduced and the deft revised of the constitution which drops the word “colony “ from its preamble cannot conceal this truth. These measures may have reformed the islanders’s way of life, but they have in no way changed the colonial status of the territory.
Thank you for your interesting ideas on the “fourth way”.
@135 LEPR econ
Population versus People.
As far as I know the UN have not defined a “people”. The word is generally synomous with country. The Falkland Islanders are neither. The have been specifically labelled a “population” in order to distinguish them from a “people”. As a “population” they are, I believe, a special case, if not a total anomaly.
Argentina can produce the documentary evidence of its administration ( and that of Spain) of the islands during the period 1767 – 1833.
@136 Biguggy
Who says that the UN Charter overrides any UNresolution? As mentioned above, the word “population” is used wisely and precisely in the case of the Falkland Islanders to distinguish them from a “people”.
@187
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) There is absolutely nothing in any UN documentation anywhere at any time that distinguishes the terms peoples and populations.
2) the Falkands are not a colony, and certainly, the rest of the world which you claim to represent, don't think they are. The European Union (not represented at all on the C24), the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand..to name but a few would disagree. Most importantly, the islanders do not consider themselves a colony, which they certainly would be f they were forcibly annexed to Argentina.
3) Argentina can provide absolutely ZERO evidence of its administration between 1767 and 1833. You are doing your old trick again of calling anything “Latin” that suits you Argentine. Remember when you claimed the islands were Argentine because an Italian may have seen them in the 1500s.
Spain had an administration on the islands from 1767 to 1811. Nobody disputes this. nobody disputes the fact that for some of that period Britain also had an administration. Both left voluntarily.
It is true that Spain elected to control its territory from Buenos Aires, in the same way that Britain controlled Aden from Bombay.
However, the Spanish (not Argentine) population left and returned to Spain via Montevideo and never became Argentine.
This Argentine community between 1767 and 1811 is a LIE. The people never once considered themselves Argentine at all.
From 1811-1833 more bollocks. No “administration” whatsoever between 1811-1828.
In 1828, Luis Vernet accepted a title that the UP offered him, but left in 1831 (presumably taking the title with him) leaving the British Matthew Brisbane in charge.
In November 1832 there was indeed an Argentine administration under Esteban Mestevier, until you murdered him and raped his wife in front of their children.
So your claimed “argentine administration” from 1767 to 1833 ACTUALLY becomes an undisputed SPANISH administration between 1767-1811 and a bunch of murdering rapists for 2 months in 1832.
@187 Devolverislas: I was going to write a long reply, but are you worth it? It's like telling something to a goldfish.
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take it to the ICJ, please. Start a petition to pressure your government, please.
#187
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The have been specifically labelled a “population” in order to distinguish them from a “people”.
Who decided this ?
@187
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My apologies I should have said that the UN Charter overrides and UN General Assembly Resolution.
All member of the UN agree to abide by the Charter which is available here:
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter5.shtml
This makes the Charter binding upon the organisation itself and all its members. Security Council Resolutions are also supposed to be binding on all members, Article25 of the Charter, available above refers. (We all know however Argentina does not consider them binding upon them as they completely disregarded Security Council Resolution 502 -what a surprise).
General Assembly Resolutions however ARE NOT BINDING UPON MEMBERS. The penultimate paragraph of the section “Functions and powers of the General Assembly” available at:
http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter5.shtml
refers.
It has already been pointed out that that the UN does not have different definitions for 'peoples' and 'population' so where you get the idea that a population has fewer rights than a people, as per the Charter, is beyond my comprehension.
Wonder what Devolverislas makes of the story running on here about the president of Uruguay cutting short his visit back to Europe: “Mujica, originally ‘Muxica’, underlined the close links of the Basque people [...]this meeting will boost cooperation between our peoples”
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Using the word 'peoples' to describe the population of an specific area of Spain!!!! Someone tell the UN!!!!!
Or perhaps our Latin imperialist posters are a bunch of hypocrites??
@187
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is the difference between population and people, unless the population of the Falkland Islands refers to Crowberry plants, Balsalm Bogs, areas of Pigvine patches of Swordgrass, King Pengins, Johhny Rooks, Bluebuzzers, Stinkers, etc etc etc etc ????
Well said MLA Mike Summers!
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A_Voice” aka Think
Jun 03rd, 2013 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No reply on whether you are British or not?
I'm not surprised - why would you be evasive?
189 screenname
Jun 06th, 2013 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, take your claim to the ICJ and see how far it goes.... Or how long it takes to get the claim thrown out of court.
Then we can ALL have a laugh.
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