MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Malvinas OAS statement: Latam support Argentine position; Canada against and US abstains
Latinamerican countries expressed on Thursday their full support for Argentina’s sovereignty claim over the Falklands/Malvinas, during the 43 annual assembly of the Organization of American States taking place in Guatemala. Only Canada was against the OAS final declaration while the United States did not take position on the matter. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThanks to Canada. Timerman yet again claims elgal obligations where there are none, and claims talks are rejected wihout stating exactly why. Twist turn, lie, deflect. Get a life.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Saying that any settlers not indigenous to the Americas should leave sets an awkward precedent, especially if you're from, I don't know, the Ukraine or somewhere.
There is no mention of the Member Countries of the Commonwealth, apart from Canada, who are members of the OAS. It seems to me that those countries of the Commonwealth who share a Head of State with the Falkland Islands have opinions. When are we going to learn what they are?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also, Timerman's allegations that “United Nations since almost four decades, defines the Malvinas situation “as a violation of the territorial integrity of Argentina”” should be scrutinised - what body within the United Nations has issued this statement? I suggest that this is a figment of his imagination.
So tit for brain now claims the UN says British presence in the Islands is a violation of Argentine territorial integrity. Does this guy have a degree? If so he should review his education to review referencing standards.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0After all Brazil are happy to sign deals with FI oil explorers. I call that economic solidarity with the FI :)
of course latam supports, but it don't mean a thing....
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0....SELF-DETERMINATION, the “illegitimate” human right according to argentina, true latam democracy!
Looking at the OAS website, there's no document available showing the voting results...yet...: http://scm.oas.org/ag/documentos/
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0”while United Nations since almost four decades, defines the Malvinas situation “as a violation of the territorial integrity of Argentina”.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0When did that happen? Oh that's right it has never happened.
Or how about this;
“I once again call on the UK to comply with international law obligations”
Which law would be that the UK is breaking tinpotman?
No wonder Argentina is the laughing stock of the world when the people leading your country are making up things that clearly have never happened and things that take about 30 seconds to check.
Cringeworthy? Just a little.
Every year they resolve that the UK and Argentina find a peaceful resolution to the sovereignty dispute and thats it. Its somewhat less interesting than all the spin and rhetoric that Argentina and their close chums bore us to death with.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0AG/DEC. 72 (XLIII-O/13)
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0DECLARATION ON THE QUESTION OF THE MALVINAS ISLANDS
(Adopted at the fourth plenary session, held on June 5, 2013)
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,
CONSIDERING its repeated statements that the question of the Malvinas Islands is a matter of enduring hemispheric concern;
RECALLING its resolution AG/RES. 928 (XVIII-O/88), adopted by consensus on November 19, 1988, in which it requested the governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to resume negotiations in order to find, as soon as possible, a peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute;
BEARING IN MIND that in its resolution AG/RES. 1049 (XX-O/90), it expressed satisfaction over the resumption of diplomatic relations between the two countries;
RECOGNIZING that the accreditation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, under resolution CP/RES. 655 (1041/95), as a permanent observer of the Organiation of American States (OAS) reflects principles and values shared by that country and OAS member states, which facilitate greater mutual understanding. (cont)
NOTING with satisfaction that the governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland maintain important political, cultural and trade ties, share common values, and are also engaged in close cooperation both bilaterally and in international fora;
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0BEARING IN MIND that, despite those ties and shared values, it has not yet been possible to resume the negotiations between the two countries with a view to solving the sovereignty dispute over the Malvinas Islands, South Georgia, and South Sandwich Islands and the surrounding maritime areas in the framework of resolutions 2065 (XX), 3160 (XXVIII), 31/49, 37/9, 38/12, 39/6, 40/21, 41/40, 42/19 and 43/25 of the United Nations General Assembly, the decisions adopted by the same body on the same question in the Special Committee on Decolonization, and the reiterated resolutions and declarations adopted at the OAS General Assembly; and
HAVING HEARD the presentation by the head of delegation of the Argentine Republic,
WELCOMES the reaffirmation of the will of the Argentine Government to continue exploring all possible avenues towards a peaceful settlement of the dispute and its constructive approach towards the inhabitants of the Malvinas Islands.
REAFFIRMS the need for the governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to resume, as soon as possible, negotiations on the sovereignty dispute, in order to find a peaceful solution to this protracted controversy.
DECIDES to continue to examine the question of the Malvinas Islands at its subsequent sessions until a definitive settlement has been reached thereon.
*yawn*
Thanks :)
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0More blatant lies, I am surprised Timberhead did not trot out the old claim that the UN had stripped the right to self-determination from the Islanders as per the third paragraph in the section 4. PERIOD 1982-1989 of the following document:
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://cancilleria.gov.ar/es/history
Please note that this is a Government of Argentina website!
That document totally ignores the fact that the non binding General Assembly Resolution that resulted from the referenced dialogue states, inter alia:
”1. Requests the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to initiate negotiations with a view to finding the means to resolve peacefully and definitively the problems pending between both countries, including all aspects on the future of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas), in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;“
Notice the ”Requests“ not ”demands“. Further, please note ”in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;“ which is available here:
http://cancilleria.gov.ar/es/history
and in Article 1 paragraph 2 states ”To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;”
When are these States that so blithely follow the lies told by the Government of Argentina going to wake up and verify the claims made by Argentina?
Perhaps the UK Government, which is responsible for FI foreign affairs should be considerably more proactive in denouncing these blatant untruths and quoting the actual 'facts' with the appropriate references?
I think I've figured out the problem, Timmermen say the claims are based on territorial integrity but he has no idea what “integrity” means.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@9
Jun 07th, 2013 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is this it? That hardly reads like “full support for Argentina’s sovereignty claim”. It's just the usual “please sort this out peaceably between yourselves”, subsequently presented by Argentina as support for the Argentine sovereignity claim.
The only real comfort for Argentina is the truly hilarious bollocks regarding their “constructive approach towards the inhabitants of the Malvinas Islands”, following on from Timerpunk's further denigration of them, their origins, and their rights.
Although the USA 'did not take a position' the remarks of Ms Smith, as reported above, would definitely appear to be supportive of the Islanders. Comments anyone?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have never understood how the UK could negotiate a peaceful solution to the sovereignty dispute with a country that will only accept full hand over of sovereignty.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems to me 'Negotiate' to many of the OAS members and Argentina appears to mean 'set out the strategy/program for hand over of sovereignty', any thing less would be rejected by Argentina as not an acceptable solution, they know it, the UK know it and so do the rest of OAS, so where is there room to negotiate?
What would be an acceptable solution to the OAS? The Islanders have made their choice to remain a BOT, the UK abides this decision, isn't that a solution to the dispute? or can it only be a negotiated solution if it is in favour of Argentina and they gain sovereignty of islands they never owned.
@14 - believe Ms Smith is from the UK foreign office.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately there are those that will beleive the rubbish that Timmermutt utters and take it at face value for the truth, I am always astounded by the bare faced lies, half-truths and myths which the Argentinain Government repeat time and agian on the international stage without some one holding them to account (there are two in the press release above). Perhaps it is because they are spoken at press conferences afterwards, where they are not challanged on their comments in an open forum!
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I understand it, full negotiations took place in 1982. The argentines opened negotiations with bombs and bullets, the UK counter-negotiated in a similar fashion, and the end result of those negotiations was full soveriegnty to the UK. The issue was fully resolved and peace has reigned for 32 years. Latam resolutions are simply irrelevant.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0@16
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct, thank you and my apologies, therefore my post #14 is in error and should be ignored, deleted if possible.
My apologies to all concerned for any inconvenience/misunderstanding caused.
@17
It is not only 'on the international stage' just read this on their own Government website:
http://cancilleria.gov.ar/es/history
Anyone with half a brain and access t the internet can blow several holes in that without very much trouble/research. I do acknowledge that although a lot of it is untruthful it is a lot harder to actually 'prove' with only the internet but being caught in one untruth and failing to recognise and correct it surely renders all other parts of the claim open to suspicion?
Yes...Buttt...the RG's will wriggle out of that one by saying '..it wasn´t a peaceful solution, even if we started it, so it doesn´t count'.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0On another matter, can any of the Brits on this forum explain why the UK does not maintain a more 'neutral' attitude in regard to US claims? Without getting bogged down in the detail, there are various arguements and claims (which even if they are weak are arguably much stronger than Argentine claims to the Falklands) that the US should not exercise soveriegnty over the Hawaian and various other Pacific Islands, Puerto Rico, Guantanamo Bay and countless other places. Given the US's continued position of having a bet each way in the face of the illigitimacy of Argentinian claims and that nation's continuing agression, perhaps the UK should adopt a similar stance in relation to US territory.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0And, given that the US does not support the continued existence of BOT's, the UK could 'assist' them in this stance by declaring that they clearly no longer need to use such facilities as Diego Garcia, Ascension Island, and other bases that they occasionally or potentially until now may have needed (which may well at some point in future include Mount Pleasant/Mare Harbour- especially if the Panama Canal is blocked. Reasonable points Brits?
Its Timerman making noise to show he's doing something for his pay cheque and the folks back home... nothing more or less ... the card has been played so many times its just not taken seriously. The referendum is now the only reference point. And its definitive.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mercopress fails to report the substance of the OAS Declaration of Guatemala 6 June 2013. Maybe because it makes uncomfortable reading for the British Government and the Falkland Islanders.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Declaration, in its concluding paragraphs:-
“Reaffirms the need for the governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to resume, as soon as possible, negotiationss on the sovereignty dispute, in order to find a peaceful solution to this protracted controversy.”
“Decides to continue to examine the question of the Malvinas Islands at its subsequent sessions until a definitive settlement has been reached thereon.”
Yes indeed, Canada, “only the Falkland Islanders can decide on their own future”. Nobody would deny them that. But they cannot decide on the future of the territory which they, in the eyes of Argentina and the rest of the world, are occupying.
It is interesting that, according to Mercopress, the Foreign Office, in a largely hostile forum, back-pedals on the much trumpeted right to self-determination. The FCO just calls tamely for the OAS to recognize “the right of the islanders to determine their own economic future, to become part of the global economy and to cooperate in every possible way with its Latinamerican neighbours.”
Foreign Office are there with observer status...how would you like them to behave...like the RG's ranting and raving....
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0The rest of the World you say, or just the rest of SA.... not even all of the OAS.
So Devolerislas..Lets negotiate:
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are against colonial occupation by force...and implanted populations (the falklands are neither of these), however, as an opener to the negotiations and to prove that you genuinely do have these principles, i would suggest that the Republic of Argentina withdraw all its “pirate usurper, squatters” from Patagonia, stolen in a colonial genocidal rampage in 1880.
When, the land is returned to the “original population” and full reparations made, including the return of all mineral rights both present and “stolen”, we will wait a reasonable time (say, 50 years) before re-entering any discussions on the Falkland Islands.
At that point and no sooner, would we be prepared to take both parties interpretations of history to the ICJ, where you can show unequivocal inheritance from Spain (evidence we'd all find fascinating), any Argentine population (again, we'd love to see it) and finally the exact details of who was (and wasnt) evicted on jan 6th 1833, names, when they arrived, etc etc....
We can let the ICJ decide.
However, before that, and to prove unequivocally that you are not just colonial genocidal expansionists...please withdraw from patagonia.
“while United Nations since almost four decades, defines the Malvinas situation “as a violation of the territorial integrity of Argentina””
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well that is a new one... I guess they have just made that one up! Thanks for Canada for standing up for our human rights.
@23 They appear to have been saying the same thing for the last 25 years. I would imagine the interested parties aren't bothered anymore.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Clear nothing will change and this is nothing more than their latest fantasy.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0I guess they need some escapism to help them relieve the immense pressure they must be under after single handedly destroying their own nation.
I used to feel sorry for them but now I just pity them.
I suspect perhaps some small Caribbean States were not there - In Arg term not being there means you vote for them - as happened in the African meeting the Twitman often refers to!
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pretty clear statement from the US this time as well - a definate “move” from before - maybe next year their actual vote will move as well.
SENOR TIMERMAN;
Jun 07th, 2013 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PLEASE DO ME A FAVOUR , AND RETURN TO THE UKRAINE WHERE YOUR PARENTS CAME FROM IN 1928 , AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE .
YOU ARE SQUATTING ON LAND THAT WAS STOLEN FROM THE
INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS WHO WERE RUTHLESSLY EXTERMINATED.
'IF BY CHANCE YOU DON´T FANCY THE UKRAINE , I AM SURE THAT
ISRAEL WOULD WELCOME YOU WITH OPEN ARMS , WHERE YOUR
“ TALENTS ” COULD BE PUT TO GOOD USE , INSTEAD OF BLEATING
A LOT OF NONSENSE ABOUT THE BRITISH FALKLAND ISLANDS .
awful lot of bad news for Argentina/CFK in the USA Congress, words being thrown around like Rogue nation status and Censure
Jun 07th, 2013 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rut ro
Maybe they'll ban the use of the U$ in trade...
that would be inconvenient
and I would find it amusing
What dispute? Any dispute between Argentina and Great Britain was resolved 'perfectly' in 1850, events prior to that are not relevant.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At the next meeting Canada (on behalf of Britain) should bring up the case of the QOM Indians in Nothern Arg who are currently fighting for possession of their ancestral lands.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be interesting to see the hypocrisy of Tinpotman trying to defend Argie possession of these lands while negating the rights of the Falklanders to their land
And while we're at it let's discuss the return of Missiones & Chaco to the Guarani & Patagonia to the Mapuche!!!
Way to go CANADA ,the only country with the balls to call it as it is.....As for Timerman he really is laughable.Yawn...coffee time...!!
Jun 07th, 2013 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Timmerpunk is so photogenic: he always looks like he is dribbling at the mouth: he may also be dribbling somewhere else as well, but we don't want to know about that.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21. As an American I grudgingly agree. Congress and the Executive branches (mainly the career hacks at the State Department who drive this unnecessary exercise of realpolitik) are at odds on this issue, but Cameron should use some “soft passive aggression” CLEARLY tied and equivalent to this slight to Obama to drive home exactly how it feels (e.g., target the Democratic Party's soft underbelly w.r.t. Puerto Rico and advocate for applying our funky Micronesia approach, which would deny his party it's prize, just to REALLY mess with him :-). Trouble with O is that he will take it personally like he does with everything and not recognize that this is a clear diplomatic response to his branch's long term linking that they can play this like the Taiwan card (esp. since the PRC, bad as they are, never marched into Taipei and held guns to people's heads like Argentina did).
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the issue is that Timerman's family arrived in the late 1920's from Ukraine and he really doesn't have much knowledge of the country he was born.. because If he did, He wouldn't go on about sovereignty claims with full knowledge the indigenous population were violated at the worse possible way to make way for Argentinas independence, on the other hand ! the FI removed a bunch of rape monger garrisons.......
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Once again Canada has demonstrated, it is the America's most civilised country!
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, by far.
Philippe
Canada: where the natives STILL do not have access to drinking water.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/11/28/f-first-nations-water.html
(This when Canada has more fresh water than any other country)
Then of course the Canadian Genocide (interesting how Anglo societies always seem to abuse little children, how brave):
“...There has long been significant historiographical and popular controversy about the conditions experienced by students in the residential schools. While day schools for First Nations, Metis and Inuit children always far outnumbered residential schools, a new consensus emerged in the early twenty-first century that the latter schools did significant harm to Aboriginal children who attended them by removing them from their families, depriving them of their ancestral languages, and exposing many of them to physical and sexual abuse at the hands of staff and other students...”
”In 1909, Dr. Peter Bryce, general medical superintendent for the Department of Indian Affairs (DIA), reported to the department that between 1894 and 1908, mortality rates at some residential schools in Western Canada ranged from 30% to 60% over five years (that is, five years after entry, 30% to 60% of students had died, or 6–12% per annum). In 1920 and 1922, Dr. A. Corbett was commissioned to visit the schools in the west of the country, and found similar results to Bryce. At the Ermineskin school in Hobbema, Alberta, he found 50% of the children had tuberculosis.[20] At Sarcee Boarding School near Calgary, all 33 students were “much below even a passable standard of health” and “[a]ll but four were infected with tuberculosis.” In one classroom, he found 16 ill children, many near death, who were being made to sit through lessons.”
What a wonderful country that respects self-determination.
Canada: the scum of the Americas (and the current government probably approves of the above).
Enjoy the show:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/11/28/f-first-nations-water.html
I know a lot of people that work at OAS and they are not the brightest bulbs on the tree.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most of lazy and dumb but have good familial connections to get them a low paying job in the USA.
Plus without the support fo the 2 biggest, most powerful and richest countries in the Org any statement is meaningless.
The USA is sidelining OAS anyway, it is outdated and it is better to deal directly with each country individually. I would look for us to extract ourselves from the Org in the near future. Without the USA, money and clout it will fade out of existence.
Think/Devolv:.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't get sovereignty just by being close to somewhere or getting a load of people to SAY its yours. You got totally stubbed on Flikr when you came out with the same old rubbish. As Timmerpunks sock puppet you are in the same class as he is as a diplomat.... A total and abysmal failure.
Your only redeeming feature is that you continue giving us plenty of laughs. A load of clowns support Rgland which is governed by corrupt incompetent fools, who cares?
@40
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We simply use the OAS when it is convenient for us. When they rule against us we just ignore them totally. It's quite a neat arrangement.
Thanks for paying for the forum.
@21 You have to remember that all these American “states” are pretty junior. Their presence on the “world stage” doesn't extend much beyond 200 years. Britain's “presence” and experience goes back much farther. At least four times as far. And then, despite the advent of the Anglo Saxons and Normans, we managed to retain a fair amount that we had learned from the Romans. Let us take a simple example. When the United States finally decided to join in WW2, it refused to take advice from Britain about various features of war-fighting. As a result, it lost hundreds of cargo ships, and their crews, off its own coasts. Because coastal town kept their lights on and ships didn't sail in convoy. They lost hundreds of aircraft, and their crews, because they insisted on bombing in daylight without fighter escorts. They lost thousands of troops because they thought they could just stroll ashore and overawe the opposition. Except that the opposition weren't overawed. They just kept firing. See?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 Blah, blah, blah. And who gives a toss about the OAS? Certainly not the UK. Incidentally, how is argieland getting on paying war reparations to the Falkland Islands? Tell you what, let's make it a straight contest. You send out your “flagship”, the ARA Libertad, and we'll send out a Type 45 destroyer. Live rounds at 100 yards. Whoever wins, WINS!
@43
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only the British would be “proud” of having experience in making war (and killing others).
That's all that has to be said of that putrid society.
@39 - move forward a hundred years, and the picture is still bleak for indigenous children in certain countries:
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.loc.gov/law/help/child-rights/argentina.php
Argentina Foreign minister Hector Timerman's absolute lies.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0United Nations defines the Malvinas situation “as a violation of the territorial integrity of Argentina”.
...and insisted on the illegitimacy of the Falklands’ March referendum. ...
No such law existed in 1833, which if the issue was to be legally resolved, would be based on international law at that time.
“...The rule of the intertemporal law still insists that an act must be characterized in accordance with the law in force at the time it was done, or closely on the next occasion. ...” The Acquisition of Territory in International Law
By Robert Yewdall Jennings (a Judge of the ICJ from 1982 and president between 1991 and 1994)
As to the referendum Argentina has by not challenging the validity of it through the courts. Has acquiesced and thereby given tacit consent.
Timerman can present no rulings in international law to support his futile political blathering. Whereas the UK can rest knowing that international law is firmly on their side. Let me remind Sr.Timerman of his obligations under the CHARTER OF THE ORGANIZATION OF AMERICAN STATES; ... the essential rights of man; ... ...Resolved to persevere in the noble undertaking that humanity has conferred upon the United Nations, whose principles and purposes they solemnly reaffirm;... ...Chapter II
PRINCIPLES Article 3 The American States reaffirm the following principles:
a) International law is the standard of conduct of States in their reciprocal relations;
b) International order consists essentially of respect for the personality, sovereignty, and independence of States, and the faithful fulfillment of obligations derived from treaties and other sources of international law;
c) Good faith shall govern the relations between States; ...
e) Every State has the right to choose, without external interference, its political, economic, and social system and to organize itself in the way best suited to it, and has the duty to abstain from in
@45
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And once again, as I said just a week ago, the typical Anglo excuse of “it happened 100 years ago, so we won't own up to our crimes”.
Of course then they go back 130 to flay argies for the War of the Desert.
It is so easy to expose these anglo twats for the barbarians, murderers, hypocrite, supremacist arses they are.
Continued from #46
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0e) Every State has the right to choose, without external interference, its political, economic, and social system and to organize itself in the way best suited to it, and has the duty to abstain from intervening in the affairs of another State. ...
http://www.oas.org/dil/treaties_A-41_Charter_of_the_Organization_of_American_States.htm
I've got absolutely no problem with saying a lot of what went on was very very wrong. Indeed you see official apologies happening all the time, look at the Mau Mau topic this week, another awful episode that is being recognised as such, and crimes being owned up to.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The issue is that Argentina is pressing ahead in the 21st century with the same mentality, now recognised as ignorant.
@49
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The issue is that Argentina is pressing ahead in the 21st century with the same mentality, now recognised as ignorant.”
Maybe so, but: (From @48)
e) Every State has the right to choose, without external interference, its political, economic, and social system and to organize itself in the way best suited to it, and has the duty to abstain from intervening in the affairs of another State...”
Are the Falkland Islands part of Argentina yet?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nope!
So nothing has changed.
Trolley, yes, you are definaty off it, and, you have no idea what truth is. Get back in the pram.. boring.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for Gollum, words are cheap, its actions that count. He is just using every opportunity to be an irritant, like a horsefly maggot which he closely resembles.
@52
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well I'm glad you are saying Wikipedia, youtube, researchers, documentaries, human rights groups, independent investigators, the Native Canadians, and me are lying about Canada's atrocious history, and you are telling the truth. How very modest of you.
How could a country with that sort of macabre history (which still denies people self-determination, i.e Nunavut/Quebec/Alberta), judge another from a moral pulpit is only left for the most credulous to swallow, but that attitude is a good encapsulation of the Anglo tradition of commiting crimes, ignoring them, and then judging others from their sordid glass house.
Interesting fact If Mr Timerman believes the Falkland island referendum is in fact ilegal, so then could Chile argue the referendum in 1902 in Trevelin y Esquel patagonia which was decided by Welsh folk is in fact ilegal also ! .. be interested to know
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 053. Toby, Where did all the black people go in Argentina?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A little hypocritical methinks
Talk about extermination!
I guess Sarmiento didn't like them too much.
http://www.ibtimes.com/blackout-how-argentina-eliminated-africans-its-history-conscience-1289381
@51... and have any of the OAS members pledged military resources to take “back” the Islands that were never really theirs to begin with? After all as per the statements of their own defense minister that is the ONLY thing that is keeping Argentina's fascist jackboot off the islanders neck. No? Well nothing has changed their either.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The OAS has had their mutual validation session, patted AR on the head, and have moved on to the next item.
Jog on, fascist little Malvanistas. No true progress yet again.
@55
Jun 07th, 2013 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you are jealous we were more successful there than you. The whole world very well knows Americans would have LOVED to pull off what Argentina did.
Looks like the Venezuelan Health System is on the verge of collapse from H1N1.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess they can't afford to by the vaccine. Toilet paper or vaccine//toilet paper vaccine???
Or in CFK country, fuel or vaccine/fuel or vaccine ...my guess is she'll pick fuel
Let's hope those filthy people don't let it morph into something even worse.
My guess is it will spread to the Rg brothers soon enough. How many dead already in Argentina? We will never really know since it won't be reported.
Brr
Sniff Sniff Cough Sneeze
dead
@57.... And now Poland=Saddam XIII not only admits but takes pride his own countries genocidal past. Fabulous. At least you now own your disgusting character flaws. The difference between AR and the US is that the US has gone through true soul searching over how it treated its first nations people. You get off on it, you loathsome irredeemable worthless little twit.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UN resolutions call for the UK and Argentina to resolve their dispute over sovereignty. Not a single resolution calling for a transfer of sovereignty, yet that is the only thing Argentina will discuss. In the real World, the last UN resolution was made in 1988. Discussions were made and an agreement was signed in Madrid in October 1989. There were more discussions and more agreements flowed covering fisheries, flights, hydrocarbons etc. The UK has complied with the UN resolutions - it held discussions and arrived at a formula with Argentina, under the so called sovereignty umbrella. Argentina has torn up all the agreements, so it's Argentina's problem. The UK has NO obligations to discuss anything with Argentina any more. Ban Ki-Moon said on 12th November 2012, quote: 'I don't think Security Council members (UK) are violating 'relevant' UN resolutions.'
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/un-confirms-that-Britain-is-not-in-breach-of-resolutions-over-the-falklands/
If Argentina had a genuine sovereignty case they would have taken it to the UN ICJ at the Hague long ago. But they have no case. Hector Timerman said, 'Argentina will take legal action at home and abroad against any oil companies involved in oil exploration off the Malvinas Islands.' He said this on 15th March 2012. Well Hector, What's happening? Just proves the point - the Falkland Islands are British and all Argentina has is bluster.
@59
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Soul searching? Where?
They still live as alcoholic meth junkies in human zoos, and the canadian ones have to beg for running water. Sond like soul-searching to you?
57. Wow you are sick! Now you are cheering ethnic cleansing. Wow! How low can you go?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW Sarmiento is supposed to be one of the Rg founding fathers and one of their great leaders.
It's no wonder that place will never be considered a serious country. They have no one with any integrity to look up to or admire
In 200+ years they have had one bad ruler after another
It is really sad but easy to see why they're so messed up.
@62
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said you are jealous, as an American. I said nothing about my feelings about Sarmiento or Roca.
Unlike you, who have made Jefferson and Andrew Jackson into GODS, and they were slave murdering in the former or indian genocidal maniacs (“Trail of Tears”) in the other.
And of course the recent revelations about your true God Lincoln are not very flattering.
Everyone knows the USA would have loved to ethnically cleanse all the blacks... heck, that's what they wanted to do, Lincoln, send them all off to Liberia or something.
And it's not like you didn't try:
http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/11/07/8640744-victims-speak-out-about-north-carolina-sterilization-program-which-targeted-women-young-girls-and-blacks?lite
Again, what is it with Anglos targetting children and women?? Why not fight men like Argentines do?
@61. Yes, we should have exterminated them en masse like you did and celebrated it to this very day to your pride. Your precious Galtieri would have been delighted to have such a rabid mindless little sociopath like you on his leash had he a taste for little yappy dogs. Yip yip yip little teenage fascist loser that's all you can do.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The usual misguided sense of regionalism and anti-imperialistic identity of Latin American countries.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why not fight men like Argentines do?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinians are cowards, you are strong with the weak and weak with the strong.
Not a trait to be admired
it is actually sickening
Great news! for Argentina of course.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@67 You mean 'Usual pathetic spin'.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Timerman has proved British sovereignty beyond any reasonable doubt in the remarks he made on 15th March 2012. 'Argentina will take legal action against any companies involved in oil exploration off the Malvinas Islands.'
So how is he progressing????
Usual pathetic spin but he has proved that because he CAN DO NOTHING OUTSIDE ARGENTINA - Sovereignty is proved beyond reasonable doubt. LOL.
(65) JoseAngeldeMonterrey
Jun 07th, 2013 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“The usual misguided sense of regionalism and anti-imperialistic identity of Latin American countries.”
I say....:
Strange........... Just the other day, on another article, you showed exactly the same “ misguided sense of regionalism and anti-imperialistic identity”............. against China.
Brainwash anybody?
Stink emerges from the swamp again.... phew!
Jun 07th, 2013 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We know Rgland specialises in Brainwashing. It starts at school with the Malvinas myth...
Timerman is a pathetic twit, Rgland couldnt have a better Foreign Minister, no brain, no tactical skill, no diplomatic skill, quite loathsome to listen to without an once of charm, thoroughly incompetent and ineffective
As far as Brits and FI's are concerned he is just the ticket, and forms a perfect pair with KFC
@44 Of course we're proud. Over many years, we've succeeded in killing many bastards, degenerates, genocides, murderers, perverts, queers, slugs. Just back in 1982...........
Jun 07th, 2013 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47 No, we only have to go back to 1982 to show what barbarians, murderers, hypocrite, supremacist arses you are.
@50 ”has the duty to abstain from intervening in the affairs of another State...” But you're trying to interfere in the affairs of the United Kingdom. Who's a naughty little boy?
@53 You really shouldn't talk about sordid glass houses from your corrupt, criminal, debt-ridden, degenerate, depraved, genocidal, homophobic, intansigent, juvenile, larcenous, masochistic, mendacious, nepotic, psychiatric, salacious, xenophobic gutter.
@57 Condemned from your own mouth!
@61 Fortunately, a proportion of latam is about to implode. Please rest assured that WE, here in the UK, will do everything to assist. Just ask us for anything, absolutely anything, and we'll make sure you don't get it. Industrial equipment, money, food, water, air. Just ask and we'll make sure that you suffer and then die.
@63 You're mistaken. When argies meet MEN, they RUN. Just think, Gurkhas are such little guys. Do tell us how argies faced them.
@69 Don't waste our time. What do they use on your cell? Wire wool and an AA battery?
@70 Do be fair. He also looks funny.
I love how these anglo tossers scurry at the slightest presentation of facts:
Jun 07th, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Canada genocide? Didn't say a word (check)
USA sterelization? DIdn't say a word (check)
Blaming Argentina of stuff 130 years ago like War of Desert and the Black-Argentines, and immediately after abnegating their genocide against Native Canadians, Native USA peoples, Native Australians?
Didn't say a word (check)
Same old, like the recreants of always.
72
Jun 07th, 2013 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hardly come on here anymore but when I do it feels like I see a lot of you being very bitter and twisted and offensive. It makes me sad when I reflect on how- about 20 names ago- you once used to write on MP in a way that made the site a richer place. Then you started getting totally drawn in by and immersed in all the idiotic, fool-hardy posts. Let there be no mistaking that both sides are well represented.
It's a shame. Just saying.
@73
Jun 07th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I have stated on numerous occasions, one cannot feed caviar to swine. It is a futile endeavor to have them appreciate it.
I even enjoyed you making corrections in my usage of low-frequency vocabulary. One must make mistakes in order to improve, that is the only path to fluency.
Happy Liberation day.
So what have we learned after another 73 comments on just another MercoPress story about the Falklands.... the Argentines hate the British for reasons unknown and the Falkland Islanders are squatters. So nothing new then? I love how my very existence causes consternation with the Argentines. I feel like I am already serving a worldly purpose.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hear most of the flour mills are out of wheat.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Already
Is there such a thing as Soy bread there?
Soy Pasta
Can you make shoes out of it?
Cell phones?
Bahahahahaa
I hear the IRS is keeping close tabs on you, because of how you think.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahahahaha.
USA USA USA...
Yeah but we have food, fuel and money.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW going to Japan this year. I am so excited! The U$ is doing so well it is like getting 20% off everything!
How much is a roll of good toilet paper going for in Mendoza? A lb of Sugar?
I hope you stocked up on everything I have been telling you for the last year.
Looks like you are just about to need it.
“Yeah but we have food, fuel and money.”
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To quote what is probably your only decent historical figure:
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Enjoy your trip. “They” 'll be watching.
All cowards together bollxks.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0when the shit hits the fan, argentina will be the only nation left to defend its false claim,
and they will run like the cowards they are.
still,
you can ALWAYS prove us wrong lolol.
At least we don't have brown shirt La Campora threatening individuals and business that are considered enemies.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We're still a long way from Fascism but it seems like you are there already.
Canada denies Quebec self-determination? There was a referendum on independence in 1980, and another one in 1995 - in both cases, Quebec voters voted 'no'. The Clarity Act of 2000 just requires any referendum question to be clear cut - http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-31.8/FullText.html
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Alberta, pro-independence parties have got less than one per cent of the vote.
Nunavut isn't seeking independence, it only became a separate from the Northwest Territories in 1999.
TTT don't you live in Canada? Oh you do prick loads of pictures of the Queen in you wallet?
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again, what is it with Anglos targetting children and women?? Why not fight men like Argentines do? Best laugh yet, what you mean is why not run away like rgs do. Is this the same rg's that threw women and children out the back of C130's, remind us again dickhead how many children are still missing from a period of time not far distant and who's relatives are still seeking answers to this very day.
But there is another story that demands answers - the supremely toxic affair of “disappeared” pregnant women, who gave birth to their children while being held in detention centres. Most of the mothers were murdered and their children handed on to “deserving” couples who were well connected with the brutal military junta. As intimated by the POPE no less a few months ago, so get off you high horse TTT we can all dig up shit about each other but I'm afraid you shit is a little deeper and far more smelly!
Stink you just a dickhead leave Britain NOW and go pay some taxes towards CFK's soon to be retirement
72 TroLLey_to_Truth
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If your going to accuse Canada of genocide similar to Argentina, then you need to put up some dates and names etc. There was the Indian Act passed in 1873 in an attempt to protect the native poulation. Since your making the assertion you bear-the-burden-of-proof, otherwise it's just another lie like everything else that you proffer. Where did you get the stupid idea that Quebec can't separate from Canada?, when the Supreme Court of Canada says they can.
Argentina should give up its false claim, and grow up,
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or grow a bloody spine.
this is the 21st century not the 18th,
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina should be thrown out of the UN .
hear hear .
“Since your making the assertion you bear-the-burden-of-proof”
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This one takes the cake. Let's the assertions made in this website about argies:
“They exterminated the ENTIRE indian population”
WHEN HAVE YOU EVER DECIDED TO BEAR BURDEN OF PROOF AND BACK UP THE ASSERTION WITH EVIDENCE?
In the case of this accusation, the only plausible convincing evidence is to demonstrate that every single solitary argie today is 100% white European (or something else), and not one Native American remains.
I will wait for your proof.
Or better not.
@84 don't forget he lives in Canada so THINKS he knows all about it.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 039 TroLLey_to_Truth #......Man oh Man this TroLLey bitch is completely insane...Is there any wonder that Arsentina is in the state that it is...??
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Argentina had any guts it would take it to the ICJ,
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if you feel that strongly abt it,
back it up or stutty up,
bloody wannaby thieves .
I see no reason to get upset with our American friends just because the POTUS is an arsehole who has a hang-up about how his father was treated by the British.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is only one of his many failings and sitting on the fence about the Falklands with his two thumbs up his arse is about right, if only to salve his 'conscience and stuff the fact that we have been with the USA militarily throughout the 'various incarnations of American aggression in the ‘stans.
His second term still has some time to run but he is increasingly seen as that ubiquitous ‘dead duck’ of all American politicians and will be history sooner or later so WGAF?
I would rather look to the American people who KNOW who their friends are and do not need the likes of Obama to ‘tell’ them. Brits and Americans being ‘told’ how to think: not a good idea at all, very likely to blow up in the ‘tellers’ face.
Quote “As many Argentinians either believe that the majority of the indigenous have died out or are on the verge of doing, or 'their descendants' assimilated into Western civilisation many years ago, they wrongly hold the idea that there are no indigenous people in their country. The use of pejorative terms likening the indigenous to lazy, idle, dirty, ignorant and savage are part of the everyday language in Argentina. Due to these incorrect stereotypes many indigenous have over the years been forced to hide their identity in order to avoid being subjected to racial discrimination” As of 2011 many natives were still being denied land and human rights. Many of the Toba Qom native community had been struggling to protect the land they claim as ancestral territory and even the lives of its members. A leader of the Aboriginal Community Felix Diaz claimed that his people were being denied medical assistance, did not have much access to drinking water and traders keep raising food prices. He also claimed judges would not even hear the native's complaints. ” unquote.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps Argentina should open up its doors to millions of africans who might like to settle there,
Jun 07th, 2013 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps they could colonise the place and make it better..
87 TroLLey_to_Truth
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I mainly post when something specifically falls within the remit of international law, and I have never posted without citing a source. Since I'm not interested in in the opinions of the ignorant and uniformed, anymore than anyone is interested in my uninformed humble opinion. Opinions are like derrières everyone's got one.
So I gather you have no evidence to back up your assertion. Therefor, under the rules of logic you stand revealed as a liar. By the way I am not required to furnish the proof of anything as I am not the one making the claim.
It makes me chuckle when Troll accuses everyone else of lacking evidence, but seems to provide some kind of reasoning for why his statements don't require evidence!
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@95 it'll be trawling wiki as we speak
Jun 07th, 2013 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos- wrong - a definate improvement for the Islands at the expense of Argentina.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 01- Positive vote for us again from Canada - destroys OAS unanimity Twitman likes to claim
2- Positive strong stement from USA - who then abstained but made it pretty clear which way their vote may go to in future. Even the USA no longer supports talks that are against our wishes.
3- we would expect Arg neighbours and others on the S American continent to back her - they know it means nothing internationally and they do nothing to make it effective - but they know they would get endless screaming earache from a mad demon in Buenos Aires if they did not vote in support! - I call them sensible realists!
We trade and have good links as required with Chile, Uruguay and Brazil - yup we are content here with the way things are going.
If you want them come and take them.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh you tried that and being useless failed you domt get a do over not matter how much you whine.
It is odd that the Argentine trolls never have the “huevos” to deny that the Arana Southern Treaty, ratified in 1850, brought to an end all existing disputes between Argentina and Britain, including the matter of the Falklands/Malvinas. The treaty is known as the Treaty of Perfect Friendship and its Article 7 clearly states that at the time of ratification there were no matters of contention between the two nations.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is as if Argentina is embarrassed by the existence of this treaty and pretends there is no such thing!
@99
Jun 07th, 2013 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The treaty never mentioned the Falklands
The treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it found it, unless there be some express stipulation to the contrary.
The existing state of possession is maintained, except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty.
If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the conqueror, and his title cannot afterwards be called in question …
The Arana-Southern Treaty of 1850 cannot be invoked as a final solution on grounds of its 'failing to mention Argentina’s claim to the islands in the Convention': if this issue was forgotten or neglected in the treaty, it does not automatically mean it has been dropped by Argentina
I find it hard to be amused anymore, even by whining as pathetic as Argentina's.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@100
Jun 07th, 2013 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just supposing your ludicrous interpretation of the Treaty is taken as correct, how do you explain that after it was signed no mention of the Falklands dispute was made at the opening of the Congress of Argentina for 91 years, but prior to that it had been mention every year since 1833?
That not withstanding why, since 1850 have 2 Presidents and one Vice President, when addressing Congress at its openings, all on different occasions, stated words to the effect that Argentina has no disputes with anyone. I believe it was the Vice President who made one slight exception to the effect that there were a few civilian damage claims outstanding, very minor items, but no mention of the Falklands?
Looks like the prick TTT and Stink have done one probably down the legion in Dover or kerb crawling
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@102
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet I fail to see how not mentioning something automatically means that you have no legal entitlement.
Perhaps someone in 1940 decided to look closely at the implications of the settlement and realised it didn't mean shit. At the most a sin of omission!
It is not ludicrous at all…and it's not my interpretation it is a FACT…..IT DOES NOT MENTION THE FALKLANDS!!
@100
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the conqueror, and his title cannot afterwards be called in question …”
In 1850, Britain was the administering power in the Falkland Islands.
@99
“Treaty of Perfect Friendship and its Article 7 clearly states that at the time of ratification there were no matters of contention between the two nations.”
Therefore Argentina did not consider Britain's administration of the Falkland Islands a problem.
@ Think
Jun 07th, 2013 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the umpteenth time - get your government to take it to the ICJ and then we'll see who is right. You want the islands, you believe you legally own them, so take it to court. You've had 68 years of the ICJ and 91 years of the World Court / ICJ - and yet here you are in 2013 still whining. Why on earth are you trying to win a legal point on a website when your country refuses to take it to court, conceding defeat by so doing.
@106
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What Argentina has isn't a claim, it's a pathology.
The Arana-Southern Treaty (aka Convention of Settlement) settled the problems left by the British and French blockade against the government of Juan Manuel de Rosas. The islands are not even mentioned in it.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Legally it's a weak argument…..whilst the Islanders are in a strong position they should should go for a beneficial settlement with Argentina or declare independence and pay for the British Military for defence, they would also then have UN support!
@ 108 Think
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So in that case go to the ICJ. It doesn't matter what the UK thinks. You want the islands and the ICJ is the only way you can get them so just get on with it. Why tell us our case is weak but then not go to court - that makes you look like an idiot.
Since you are happy to offer your legal opinion perhaps you would enlighten me as to why you think Argentina has never gone to the ICJ?
@109
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because it's a risk, if Argentina lost, everything would remain the same, if the UK lost the Islanders would declare Independence and everything would remain the same. Better to hope that UN and international pressure or USA fear of South American solidarity bear some fruitful results.
Think/Dover../a voice/ - porridge for brains. No arguments, no sensible responses. As competent as Timmerpunk..
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can't wait for Canada to drop the royals like a bag of spuds.
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Won't be long now, Canadian republics kicking arse in all polls.
When they see they have Charlie as their representative it'll be au-revoir.
@104
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0still no answer to the question
”why, since 1850 have 2 Presidents and one Vice President, when addressing Congress at its openings, all on different occasions, stated words to the effect that Argentina has no disputes with anyone. I believe it was the Vice President who made one slight exception to the effect that there were a few civilian damage claims outstanding, very minor items, but no mention of the Falklands?
I wonder why that is?
@111
Jun 07th, 2013 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Was that it? That was your sensible response and contribution to the forum?
Dribbling @70....Inanely babbling @52 and diatribe @41.....Goodnight idiot, that's all I have to say to you.
100 A_Voice
Jun 08th, 2013 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the conqueror, and his title cannot afterwards be called in to question”
It means exactly what it states, this means that is the legally binding effect of the peace treaty the 1850 Convention of Settlement. Therefor the Islands are irrevocably the UK's unless you can invoke some legal authority that says otherwise, remember humble opinions don't count.
This is supported by three addresses to the Argentine congress. In his Message at the opening of the Argentine Congress on 1 May 1865, Presiden Bartolomé Mitre said that Argentina had scrupulously fulfilled undertakings with Britain and France, so 'There was nothing to prevent the consolidation of friendly relations between this country and those Governments
A year later Vice President Marcos Paz opened congress on 1 may 1866 he stated “The British Government has accepted the President of the Republic of Chile as arbitrator in the reclamation pending with the Argentine Republic, for damages suffered by English subjects in 1845. This question, which is the only one between us and the British nation, has not yet been settled.
In his Message to the Argentine Congress on 1 May 1869 President Domingo Sarmiento expressed atisfaction at the state of Argentina's foreign relations:
”The state of our foreign relations fulfils the aspirations of the country. Nothing is claimed from us by other nations; we have nothing to ask of them except that they will persevere in manifesting their sympathies, with which both Governments and peoples have honoured the Republic, both for its progress and its spirit of fairness.”
@115
Jun 08th, 2013 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's called a policy of appeasement in the face of a superior power or aggressor Chamberlain was a bit of an expert in that department it's a bit like kidding on everything is fine when it's not, for the sake of peace and good relations....trade, prosperity, the islands were hardly worth dying for and they're still not!
Time for bed, said Zebedee!
@115
Jun 08th, 2013 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0See, even when the RG's sign treaties they do not honor them, think also 'Beagle Channel dispute, agreed to binding arbitration refused to accept it, agreed to Papal mediation, refused to accept result.
What it boils down to is that the RG's just plainly cannot be trusted.
In addition to which still no answer to:
”why, since 1850 have 2 Presidents and one Vice President, when addressing Congress at its openings, all on different occasions, stated words to the effect that Argentina has no disputes with anyone. I believe it was the Vice President who made one slight exception to the effect that there were a few civilian damage claims outstanding, very minor items, but no mention of the Falklands?”
A_Voice:
Jun 08th, 2013 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0-The treaty never mentioned the Falklands
Exactly. If a territory wasn’t mentioned in a peace treaty, the party that held kept it.
-The treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it found it,
The state things were when the peace treaty was signed.
-unless there be some express stipulation to the contrary.
No express stipulations to the contrary
-The existing state of possession is maintained,
Existing when the treaty was signed. The UK had the Falklands
-except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty.
nothing in the treaty alters UK possession
-If nothing be said about the conquered country or places,
Nothing said about the Falklands in the treaty
-they remain with the conqueror, and his title cannot afterwards be called in question
-The Arana-Southern Treaty of 1850 cannot be invoked as a final solution on grounds of its 'failing to mention Argentina’s claim to the islands in the Convention'
That’s exactly what the principle of uti possidetis means. (not the same as uti possidetis juris, a different legal principle). When the parties signed a peace treaty, each kept any territory under its control, unless the treaty specifically dealt with it, and the other(s) no longer had any valid claim to it.
-if this issue was forgotten or neglected in the treaty, it does not automatically mean it has been dropped by Argentina
In a peace treaty it meant exactly that, or what do you think this means?:
-and his title cannot afterwards be called in question
http://research.lawyers.com/glossary/uti-possidetis.html
Definition - Noun
[Late Latin, as you (now) possess (it); from the wording of an interdict in Roman law enjoining both parties in a suit to maintain the status quo until the decision]
: a principle in international law that recognizes a peace treaty between parties as vesting each with the territory and property under its control unless otherwise stipulated
The Falklands were vested in the UK as nothing otherwise was stipulated.
Slatzzz and FI's, “Anglos”, etc.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a waste of a thread.
How many tines in the past year has TTT and PH accused Canada of not a allowing Wuebec to seperate and carrying out a current genocide against their aboriginals?
We have refuted it and examined it in depth, more than once, and each time the charges prove to be groundless and indefensible. TTt has come out looking like an idiot more than once.
I can only assume he has no new controversy with any basis in fact and just regurgitates this stuff to provoke a reaction.
The same for “Thinkedover” - his attempt to dispute the intent and the meaning of the Treaty of 1850, is something we have seen before, more than once.
The subject was done to death and dispensed with, now he vomits it up again, along with his routine bile.
Nothing of interest here, move along.
Rumor is Venezuela is going to devalue again...2nd time already and the year is not even 1/2 over.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina do you see your future?
Can you make circuit chips out of SOY?
What was I saying awhile ago, hmm oh yeah, barley bread, barley soup, barley para todos.
They are supposed to be increasing their reserves this time of year but they're not.
I wonder if CFK is repatriating her stolen loot so people can cook this winter. Probably not.
116 A_Voice
Jun 08th, 2013 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, that's just a crock called your humble opinion, which carries zero weight, as your not a qualified expert. One thing I do know is adjudicators would give such an unsupported excuse absolutely no consideration.
@120
Jun 08th, 2013 - 03:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was wondering why such a slow start to the summer
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gunman-kills-six-santa-monica-shooting-spree-then-003443452.html
I'm sure you'll soon catch up. It's the AMerican way.
Nice way to waste time. Has been too long since nobody is interested in what OAS says, not even in Latam.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 04:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0122
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Was that the weekly mass killing in yankeeboy country?
Not wonder that yank moved to Argentina for long five years.
Trolls... yawn.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@100
Jun 08th, 2013 - 07:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0So we're supposed to believe that in 1833 a crime was perpetrated against Argentina so heinous that 200 years of continuous occupation, the human rights of the inhabitants, modern international law, and the founding principles of the United Nations count for nothing in comparison.
And yet a mere 17 years after this monstrous outrage, Argentina signs a Treaty of “perfect friendship” that makes no mention of it? That “puts an end to existing differences”? Protests cease for 100 years (with one exception), two and a half Presidents stand up in front of Congress and state there is no problem, and the islands don't appear on Argentine maps?
Seems to me that it's reasonable to conclude, at the very least, that the Falkland Islands question was no big deal in Argentine politics of the 19th century.
In fact it's not until the early 20th that a bunch of romantic nationalists, would-be nation builders, and nutters such as Groussac and Palacio start creating the myth of usurpation.
But still nobody much cares until the 30s and 40s, when as part of his Mussolini tribute act, Peron gets hold of a copy of “Dictatorship and Demagoguery for Dummies”, Chapter 1, “The Foreign Enemy”, and a little encouragement from his chum Adolf. Then things really do take off.
This relic of the 1930s survives today only because the political culture has evolved little in the meantime. Different factions of the same mentality just alternate, with a new Bride of Frankenstein popping up every so often. Kids are indoctrinated from primary school onwards*, and the whole myth provides an extremely convenient knee-jerk button for the politicos to push whenever their jaw-dropping ineptitude gets them into serious difficulty.
But it's fair to say nonetheless that the Malvinas Usurpation was and is a national tragedy for Argentina. Just not for the reasons the politicians say.
*http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2013/0310/Malvinas-curriculum-helps-Argentina-revive-Falklands-claim
@110 Think
Jun 08th, 2013 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well at least that is refreshing honesty, up to a point. You know you can't get them legally so you decide to use bullying instead - how progressive. Why is it then that Britain are the imperialists when you are the ones resorting to extra-judicial tactics to obtain territory you do not possess.
You said that if Argentina won in court, the Islanders would just declare independence and the status quo would remain. So if you would be willing to accept their self-determination under those circumstances then why not just accept it now? I'm afraid I doubt your sincerity on that point. If Argentina won at the ICJ there is no way they would not fly in the very next day.
So let me ask the question another way. If CDK went to the ICJ, what do you think would be Argentina's chances of getting any kind of favourable outcome? And if in your heart of hearts you know that international law is unlikely to support Argentine sovereignty in 2013 then why not use that reality to free the Argentine youth from this highly damaging fantasy that locks them into a cycle of whining, failure and recrimination. Britain once owned Calais and the Republic of Ireland. We don't now and yet have never gotten on better with the Irish and French over the last 800 years than we do now. That opportunity is also open to Argentina by drawing a line under this once and for all.
@47
Jun 08th, 2013 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Trolley, you ask why writers on these boards remind Aegentina of the the genocidal conquistadors and the War of the Desert, but don't mention similar human rights abuses in the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
The answer is quite simple.
In 1945, we ALL signed up to the UN Charter, and we all tried to find a way to put the previous 400 years of Empires, conquests, genocides and atrocities behind us.
The quite simple principal was that whatever land belonged to whom stayed with the people who lived there, and it was their choice to select the government of their choosing.
This led to a very swift reorganisation, certainly not done perfectly, but the British Empire was relatively peacefully broken up, we tried to do it in a way that might deliver lasting peace, the splitting of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, the support of Malaya against communism, often we got it wrong...but near 2 billion people now live in democracies and self-determine their own futures.
Compared with the French, who attempted to reinstate their Empire by reinvading Vietnam and fought wars of Independence in many territories, I think we have kept to the principles pretty well. Sometimes we've failed, but mostly territories are now run by the people who live there.
Argentina wishes to deny the fundamental right to the Falklanders, it wishes to trawl up 200 year old events, and talks of usurption, squatters, colonialism etc
Once you open Pandoras box, and start ignoring the the UN charter, start trying to deny self determination..you, we, everyone starts sitting in a great big glass house hurling rocks.
If the islanders usurped their territory...so did Argentina
If the islanders are squatters..so are Argentina
If the islanders have no right to self determination..nor does Argentina.
Nobody government calls Argentines or Canadians “squatters”, nobody denies them human rights...only the Government of Argentina does that to the FIs...which is why their hypocrisy is pointed out here
“The Malvinas question is a territorial integrity issue and not a self determination issue. It’s up to London, I’m already at the table waiting to begin dialogue”
Jun 08th, 2013 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yet the UN Charter protects territorial integrity of either the Administrating Country or the Non-Self-Governing -Territory; third party claims to territorial integrity are unprotected
Argentina is making a serious error to claim territorial integrity when it cannot substantiate any disruption to either it's territorial integrity or national unity by the self-determination of the Falkland Islands population whilst Great Britain can easily demonstrate that both its national unity and territorial integrity are affected, particularly in terms of its South Georgia and Sandwich Islands possessions
One day it would be admirable to finally witness Argentina press its irredentist claims at the UN International Court of Justice and instructive to hear their refutation by Great Britain and the Falkland Islands Government based on their imprescriptible sovereignty rights
As far as one is aware, binding negotiations were completed in 1982 and the UN ICJ would have no choice but to uphold the Islanders democratic choice in their March 2013 referendum to remain a British Overseas Territory through free association
It's clear from Timerman's utterances, tone, attitude and behaviour that the last thing he actually wants is dialogue. Surely not even Arjuntina would appoint a Foreign Minister that stupid. The point of all this is no more than macho posturing for the benefit of those back home who are dumb enough to fall for it.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”We ratified that the UK and Colombia have currently the best possible relations in history. We thanked British support in many fields, such as membership of the Organization for Economic and Development Cooperation, OEDC” underlined Santos who also mentioned UK cooperation in issues related to “intelligence and security”.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WHEN WILL THE DESPERATE MOSTLY SQUATTING ARGENTINES THAT VISIT THIS FORUM GET TO GRIPS WITH THE FULL MEANING OF THE PHRASE.
LIP SERVICE
“”“Brazilian Foreign minister Antonio Patriota said his country supported Argentina’s rights in the dispute over the Malvinas”“”“
Jun 08th, 2013 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol, not even Brazil fully support Argentina... rather funny that ;-0
---
”“”“”“”WHEN WILL THE DESPERATE MOSTLY SQUATTING ARGENTINES THAT VISIT THIS FORUM GET TO GRIPS WITH THE FULL MEANING OF THE PHRASE.
LIP SERVICE“”“”“”“””
QFT
and
QED
@128
Jun 08th, 2013 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kudos to you for delivering the most noetic and adequate response in this forum in about 2 months.
But Argentina is being denied human rights, every day. By the actions of Europe, the USA, China, Mercosur, and a bunch of other nations that want to flood us with their taudry or arrantly subsidized products and destroy our entire economy, leading to mass unemployment, poverty, and hunger. I would label this rebarbative global endeavor to achieve such outcome a denial of our human rights to have a functioning economy. Forget what the CFK government is doing, that is for us to worry about. Read what the rest of the world is doing on the trade front and how there is a coordinate attempt to force us to open our markets with absolutely no protections for local producers. No other country on Earth is either being mandated or threatened to do this, not Europe, not the UK, not the USA, not Japan, China, Brazil, Australia... and all of you engage in protective measures. Quite sickening and then you wonder why this brewing hatred and xenophobia has descended on the country.
TroLLey_to_Truth , So now it's the WHOLE WORLD against Argentina ARE YOU FOR F....ing real??? ARGENTINES are to blame no one else for constantly electing such idiots apparently EVERY person you have elected to run your country since the British helped you gain freedom from an evil military Junta has been corrupt, HOW CAN THAT BE?? at the end of the day you get what you vote for we can see it why can't you????
Jun 08th, 2013 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@134
Jun 08th, 2013 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British owed us since we kept your grandparents from starving in WWII. Your country would have simply ematiated itself if it was not for argentine generosity to save you from hunger and woe.
LOL! I remember talking to a Chilean journalist who assured me that Argentines are always complaining that the world is trying to destroy them when the truth is they are doing it without any outside help.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@137
Jun 08th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see any destruction whatosever. Keep lying Elaine, you know no other way.
The proof of the pudding is that if that where the case, you woudn't have to come so often to a country that is “destroying itself”. Yet you have done so for years, and I am sure you have said for years here Argentina is destroying itself yet here we are. And you will continue to say it 5-10 years from now here and will continue to come to Argentina to make some good money.
Put your money where your mouth is, tha's right Elaine.
@TroLLey_to_Truth the whole world can see that THE CHICK running your country is a complete and utter loser that's Argentina's problem just like you, have all been brain washed to see your self as being something your not instead of what you all are a country made up of European immigrants transplanted by Spanish Pirates or did you make your own way there.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@72 Me too. Just love how, after an hour, argie slugs can't respond directly. Too busy getting your ass shagged?
Jun 08th, 2013 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@74 Bear that in mind. YOU are swine. Or slugs. Or bacteria.
@80 The important thing is to distinguish between Argentines and argies. Argentines are sane, sensible and intelligent. Argies are psychotic, incomprehensible and brain-dead. And not only argies“. ”Think“, ”Marcos Alexandro“, ”Fido Dido“, ”Trolley etc“, ”Stevie“, Gustbury. Latam solidarity. Wankers all.
@87 Well, I have to agree. According to official figures, argieland is 97% European. You missed a few. So? But you're still trying. Isn't that what your ”Federal Police“ do?
@100 WOW. ”The treaty never mentioned the Falklands“ Therefore not an ”issue“.
”The treaty of peace leaves every thing in the state in which it found it, unless there be some express stipulation to the contrary. British, then!
The existing state of possession is maintained, except so far as altered by the terms of the treaty.
If nothing be said about the conquered country or places, they remain with the conqueror, and his title cannot afterwards be called in question …“ Yep, Islands are British.
@104 And youy don't understand why you are thick?
@108 No, it's not weak. Can you see the bit where it says that the treaty only applies to the Anglo-French blockade? No? WE say that the treaty applies to ALL issues. PROVE it doesn't.
@110 Consider ”the people”. Read the UN Charter. And which parts doesn't argieland comply with.
@112 Unlike argies, Canadians are intelligent.
@114 Then bend over and take this broomhandle. Together with the bayonet.
@129 Why waste time with all this wiggling? Launch 50+ missiles from area of the United Kingdom to area of argieland. Best options are for multiple warheads. 10 warheads per missile (MIRV). 100 kilotons per warhead. 1,000 kilotons per missile. Be honest. Kill it!
@137 Shit still stinks. So does argieland. See a faggot? Kill a faggot! Especially an argie faggot!
@137 You need to get out more.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My assignments are not related to 'making money'. I will continue to visit Argentina whenever I am assigned to do so. And the deterioration since I started visiting is marked.
I am sure as an undereducated youngster with no life experience outside of a very small world, you think Argentina is doing just fine. It isn't. You just do not have the capacity to understand it.
And obviously you are worse than me because you travel so much and fail to see the detereoration of your precious UK.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have heard from people last few years that have stated how compared to 6-10 years ago, things look more run down, there's more strikes, and overall a gloomire feeling in the UK. In the USA they mention they see beggars in all street corners and that would never have been seen 10 years ago, and also people with babies hanging by shopping mall entrances and gas stations. Crime is up, and people are in a foul mood and mad at their government and each other.
Sure they might say it is still better than here, but that's not the point. The point is your country isn't going anywhere at all on the contrary. So I'd be more concerend about that.
Armed robbery increased ALMOST AS MUCH AS INFLATION in The Prov of BA.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 022%
Glad I left when I did
@141 I am not sure who has been weaving tales for you but you need some new, more reliable, sources.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have never denied the UK economy is not at its best but this forum is about Argentina, something you cannot seem to comprehend. I discuss that issue in appropriate forums.
I am not sure which districts your 'sources' hang out in but I have travelled in the USA and there are not beggars on every street corner. There are beggars in many countries, some genuine, some not. Like the beggars feeding drug habits or that scam people whilst living in rather nice homes. I cannot recall ever being harassed at the table in restaurants anywhere but Mendoza and Buenos Aires. A constant stream of beggars. Far more on my last trip.
And maybe your 'sources' need some friends because I can't relate to the claim that 'everyone is moody and miserable' in the UK and USA. It is simply untrue.
Are your sources those voices in your head?
You sound so ridiculous when you make up such silly stories to feed your appetite for something, anything, to hold onto and deny the reality in Argentina. That you are so desperate to deny it speaks volumes about you. Insecure much.
Most South Americans that I know that have traveled to the USA are stunned at how clean, quiet, safe and beautiful it is. Their only comments are “ they have no idea” and that is why so many of them end up overstaying their travel visa.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Walking around Central Park in the shopping areas it is typical to see unescorted ladies carrying 10k+ purses wearing 250K in jewelry without being scared of kidnappings, muggings etc. There is a level of security here that is unknown in any part of SA.
My Rg friends warned me of danger just walking in my own very upscale neighborhood of BA. THey thought I was “too white” and would have trouble.
I really didn't feel scared until a neighbors kids finger was left in our rail station, then I started to pay attention! But if really didn't get scarey until 2006. Then crime really started escalating I notice a HUGE difference last year.
Anothre thing that is shocking is the filthy kids, begging IN restaurants, selling trinkets, juggling in traffice AND I AM TALKING KIDS not teens Not Pre-Teens little kids.
It is only going to get worse.
Much much worse
Just look to Venezuela and Caracas in peticular to see your future.
TTT what a tit
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@141
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was in UK a couple of weeks ago, only a small city admittedly, it's called Birmingham and I didn't see beggars on every street corner nor people with babies hanging around shopping malls or gas stations (by the way Brits don't have 'gas' stations they use petrol and diesel that they buy, mostly, at supermarkets and filling stations), crime rates are at there lowest levels for years - check the stats for yourself they'll be on the web somewhere nor was I aware of any strikes. New car sales are up to there highest level for years, etc. etc. As for people being in a foul mood - well not where I was. I will give you that the people are fed up with the government but that's perfectly normal mid-term in a democracy (look up democracy in a dictionary you probably don't recognise the word)
Unlike your 'sources' I've been there. I'm willing to bet they haven't nor, I suspect, have you
@141
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Strikes? Almost none and nothing like the 80s. google it if you don't believe me.
People realise we are in deficit and so want the government to sort it out, albeit preferably putting the burden on others rather than themselves. But there is some evidence of growth and if Europe could get their act together our growth would accelerate. Normally inflation results in pay inflation and the whole thing spirals out of control, but there has been little demand for this as people understand the consequences. I rarely see beggars in the city where I live and there were plenty in the 90s. If the deterioration of the UK is your best hope then I'm afraid you are in for another disappointment.
This has got to be the nuttiest lie he has ever posted:
Jun 08th, 2013 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But Argentina is being denied human rights, every day. By the actions of Europe, the USA, China, Mercosur, and a bunch of other nations that want to flood us with their taudry or arrantly subsidized products and destroy our entire economy, leading to mass unemployment, poverty, and hunger. I would label this rebarbative global endeavor to achieve such outcome a denial of our human rights to have a functioning economy. ”
This is brainwashing at its finest. Only in North Korea is the population more delusional in their thinking of the outside world persecuting them rather than their own Gov't.
Truly wacky
@141
Jun 08th, 2013 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you might also like to read this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9984829/Britain-ranked-second-only-to-Sweden-in-table-of-most-advanced-countries.html
TTT's comments are not the views of the majority in Argentina. Not at all.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just reading some of the comments made by TroLLey_to_Truth makes you want to pitty him I am just wondering if he's blonde or just dam right stupid.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@141 yep that's right loser I have travelled all over the world in the RN and you do talk shite, but you are good at it I'll give you that, have you ever left Canada?
Jun 08th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If TTTT keeps on with this then I think he will have severe mental problems before he is much older.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just what are his parents doing letting him ruin his future in this manner?
I know those of us who have raised children sometimes despair how very bright teenagers can behave so stupidly but of course it is their hormones at play. TTT is on another road though and it will lead him nowhere.
stink is watching the rugby on BBC2 down the legion. What a twat
Jun 08th, 2013 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BREAKING NEWS
Jun 08th, 2013 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cristina Kirchner seen being led away in tears from rugby match perhaps the score of 32-3 in favour of England had something to do with it.
It was pretty much England reserves as well and they managed to throw away a few nailed on tries.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I note Ecuador has caved over Assange as well
@154 Missing us are you? Ah, Bless...
Jun 08th, 2013 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Doveoverdover a drag queen goes under the name of Think-piece of shit
Jun 08th, 2013 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Doveoverdover's back because Think just had ANOTHER sockpuppet outed on another article and he had to retire him for the night to try and fathom where he went wrong.
Jun 08th, 2013 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can anyone else work out where Heisenbergcontext went wrong?
It all started unravelling at post 118. And there are no less than 10 glaring mistakes (to an Aussie at least) but there is one than anyone should get.
So just to be clear, if you reply to Heisenbergcontext, you're replying to Think.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/05/falklands-uruguay-lawmaker-calls-for-direct-links-with-kelpers-and-a-change-in-government-s-policy
The next giveaway is coming.
@ Think
Jun 08th, 2013 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you keep doing this to yourself? It's getting really embarrassing now.
If you want your views to be taken more seriously then you need to stick to one login and just argue your case. I hadn't spotted the Heisenberg one but when you re-read the conversation it becomes really obvious - I won't tell you why.
@157 Hydra
Jun 08th, 2013 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bravo!!!
Well by this British guy Peter Willetts. The poor little kelpers, he left to they “off side”.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 04:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The UN does not support self-determination as the simple right of people to choose to live as they want”
Good for the “referendum”. The okupas were more “off side” than ever. Thieves.
http://www.infobae.com/notas/700696-Paradoja-kelpers-piden-un-derecho-de-las-colonias-pero-niegan-ser-una.html
@162
Jun 09th, 2013 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0José, you are the victim of partial reporting and your own wishful thinking. Here is what Willets actually did say :
--->
Professor Willetts said that “the government of Argentina is wrong to argue that their sovereignty claim can deprive the Islanders of their international legal rights”
…
Argentina’s position that the right only exists, “where there is no dispute over sovereignty” was rejected by the UN General Assembly during the debate on the Decolonisation Declaration and again in 2008.
….
Prof. Willetts added that the UN’s repeated calls for negotiations between Britain and Argentina do not imply any support for Argentina’s sovereignty claim.
I believe that if you check the exact wording of all the non binding UN General Assembly Resolutions issued after the 1982 war referring to this matter, the last was in 1988, you will discover that they (the Resolutions) just call for the dispute to be settled by negotiations with words to the effect that the UN Charter needs to be taken into account. A copy of the Charter can be viewed here:
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter1.shtml
from which it can readily be seen that paragraph 2 of Article 1 clearly states:
“To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;”
My opinion is that the Government of Argentina are taking the support of many for 'a negotiated settlement' as per the nonbinding UN General Assembly Resolutions issued up to 1988, after which the UK and Argentina did 'start talking', as support for for their (Argentina's) position. This is not true.
However as the Constitution of Argentina now requires outright sovereignty of the Falkland Islands and the Islanders themselves have made it very clear, on more than one occasion, that at the moment they have no desire for this, what is there to 'talk' about, sovereignty wise? There could be talks over ways to relieve the tensions that currently exist, in fact there had been since 1988 but Argentina walked away from these and tore up all the agreements that had been reached up to that time, hardly likely to endear them to the Islanders, or the UK Government, who act on behalf of the Islanders in the matters of 'Foreign Affairs', although the Islanders are taking more of this upon themselves. Their appearances before the C24 sub-sub-committee are an example.
More importantly Snr Thinks boys just took one hell of a beating. Well done England.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@162, @163
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oops, forgot the reference: http://en.mercopress.com/2013/03/11/free-association-an-option-for-the-current-falklands-dispute-at-un
In any case, the alternatives here are perfectly clear :
- if the Falklands are a colony, then the UN has repeatedly stated that there is no alternative to the principle of self-determination
- if the Falklands are not a colony, then they are obviously no business of the C24 any more.
What is also clear is that there is no such thing as a colony without the right of self-determination. This was clearly recognised by the Chinese in the 1970s, when they had Hong Kong and Macau removed from the C24 list, in order to avoid any difficulties with this pesky question of human rights.
Argentina, on the other hand, is not so smart and thus presents us with the truly hilarious spectacle of an implanted Italo-Hispanic population claiming in front a Decolonization Committee that the principle of colonial inheritance allows it to deny fundamental human rights to the implanted population of a territory it wishes to colonize.
Such is life without a sense of embarrassment.
'Argentino by choice - Born in the Falklands. His father fought against the troops of our country. However, James Peck made his own life. He devoted himself to painting, he loved a Argentina and became the first Islander to obtain an ID. From his workshop in Recoleta, tells the story that resulted in a book...'
Jun 09th, 2013 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1590074-argentino-por-opcion
'Now US falls out with ‘corruptible’ Argentina
ARGENTINA’S relations with the US have reached an “all-time low”, a top think-tank warned last night...'
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1590074-argentino-por-opcion
'Colombia and NATO - The announcement by President Juan Manuel Santos that ”during the month of June will sign a cooperation agreement with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) to show their willingness to join it“ has caused a predictable uproar in Latin America...'
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1590074-argentino-por-opcion
'Adolfo Pérez Esquivel: ”Colombia and Chile play against integration” - The Nobel Peace ruled against the agreement between Colombia and NATO. Chile also claimed an opening to the Bolivian maritime claim. He cautioned that both plot against Latin American integration...'
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1590074-argentino-por-opcion
@166. Well put; the Argentine sovereignty claim is truly a contradiction in terms
Jun 09th, 2013 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0That particular oxymoron is further compounded by the political fantasy of disrupted Argentine territorial integrity by the self-determination of the Falkland Islands population, when the Islander's self-determination and choice of free association demonstrably causes no actual disruption of national unity nor disruption of territorial integrity to Argentina whatsoever
Argentine claims based on political fantasy, delusion and wishful thinking are groundless, unwarranted and without merit
In short, they are complete nonsense
As you say, such is life without a sense of embarrassment
No doubt the Argentine collective psychosis explains why the Argentine government continues its extra-judicial, bigoted political and economic persecution of the population the Falkland Islands
Argentina knows its fantastical claims would not withstand competent scrutiny by the UN International Court of Justice against normal standards of law, which is why it avoids the jurisdiction of this court contrary to UN Charter Article 36 concerning the pacific settlement of its dispute
Unfortunately Argentina is addicted to its Malvinas Delusion over reality; the cure for this self-inflicted mental illness requires Argentine state indoctrination of the Malvinas Delusion to end but does not look likely any time soon because the patient does not accept it needs help and is in denial
Whilst in the meantime, elsewhere life goes on as normal and the pragmatic Falkland Islanders get busy living, enjoying life according to their own freely chosen ways
Just watched the rugger drubbing. Loved the unsportsmanlike whistling when England kicked a penalty. Loved the crowds chicken wire enclosure topped with razor wire. England played great. Rgland missed many chances and fouled up penalty kicks.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0What say you Think? Should your team eat more porridge? Will KFC and Gollum come to watch in BA? Gollum, your master, should come, its a chance for some dialogue... Or, will they sulk?
@168
Jun 09th, 2013 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0“.. self-inflicted mental illness ”
LOL. Could this be a uniquely Argentine invention?
To be fair, the first half was entirely watchable and Argentina did not put out their best side either, saving their best players for The Rugby Championship. They definitely have some good player - most of them play in the English and French leagues.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought the band that played the National Anthems was probably the band club from the local secondary school - terrible - but there was no booing at the end of either Anthem. The stadium was terrible the way they fenced in the fans - a relic from the 70's - but it is the same at their footie stadiums. The fans are treated like animals and respond accordingly. Rugby fans tend to be pretty well behaved with the violence on the pitch, as it were.
I thought, on balance it was played in good spirit with a little frustration boiling over in the second half. The Argentine players were outclassed and they knew it. I would even venture that the English players took their foot off the gas in the second half. It is a game played by gentlemen after all.
I honestly did not know how very popular rugby is in Argentina. Apparently, more than eighty clubs in the greater BsAs area. Not bad for another game imported by the British.
“Argentina did not put out their best side”
Jun 09th, 2013 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0They never do especially in Government but returning to the game - Argentina were actually only missing two of their better players whereas most of the England's first team are currently touring with the British Lions. Make no mistake this was a battering. Think's boys were taught a hard lesson.
@162 José Malvinero
Jun 09th, 2013 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I guess you didn't read the last paragraph...
'But does this mean a victory for Argentina? Surely not. ”Resolutions of the United Nations spur the United Kingdom is to negotiate, but do not say what should be the outcome of these discussions . Even if some future British government agreed to hand over the Falklands (Malvinas), the islanders still would have the right to accept or reject it , ”he said Willets.'
I loved the band, they had that real peanut brigade sound. Polo, hockey, rugby, cricket, all imported during the rail building era. Such a shame that Rgland never learned to play the game. Latin temperment :-(
Jun 09th, 2013 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0To be fair, again, they are pretty good at polo and if you ever get a chance to go to the Polo Championship Finals in Bs As, I thoroughly recommend it. They breed some of the best polo ponies in the world.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, I was discussing this with an American polo player who told me the Argentines are NOT well known for taking good care of their horses, something that rather tarnishes their image on the circuit. The horses I saw looked in good shape to me.
@174 The band were terrible but also rather enjoyable. :)
Having never been accused of being a troll, 'sock ' poppet, cats paw etc... I find myself unprepared for how unpleasant the experience is. By all means check out my posts if anyone cares too. Pretty boring I would've thought. There are indeed inconsistencies but it's just laziness and ignorance on my part - not a desire to deceive. If I'd known it would matter that much I would've made the effort to be more precise. Live and learn.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What attracted me to this website was the sheer aggressiveness of the current Argentine president toward the Falklands, the U.K. and her own internal perceived enemies. If my own Prime Minister talked that way the howls of derision would be heard all way across the Tasman Sea.
I'm also tired of hearing the dark mutterings of some South American politicians about the evil Western world. It's tiresome, wearisome and unneccesary. I loved it when King Juan Carlos told Chavez to shut up. Being a King I guess he could get away with it.
All the same if what ElaineB says in her earlier posts about how hard life is for many Argentine's is true ( and her posts are so lucid, specific and free of hyperbole that I can't help but believe her ) then Argentina needs compassion more than derision. I'd rather not 'pile on'.
I don't bother trying to argue with Think, A_voice, Vestige, Dover, Surfer ( have I missed any? ) because nothing I say is going to change his mind and anyway he's better at this stuff than me. I know when I'm outmatched. Besides even if I disagree with most of what he says I can still admire the vigour, wit and passion with which he says it.
So I'm done - you'll hear no more from yours truly. Clearly the Falklands doesn't need my support if these threads are any indication. Think - I can't say it's been an unqualified pleasure but you made me laugh a lot and you didn't call me a turnip. Thanks. Anglotino - it's not too late to develop a sense of humour. Between your gullibility and paranoia I suspect you're going to need it.
@176 Entirely your decision but there is a lot to learn here if you ignore the rantings on both sides. There are a few posters that I never bother to read.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@176 Sock Puppet or not, there are some others I'd like to see go first.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ambassador Castro announced a rich programme of Argentine art in Britain this year, news of which is hard to come by in Buenos Aires. Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman would do well to publicize this sort of thing more rather than breaking into other people’s security boxes, drafting fantasy diplomatic deals with Iran which only a congress of fools could approve, and generally wasting time on useless activities.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wasting time on useless activities, fantasy diplomatic deals ! interesting comments coming from the usually out-spoken ambassador in the UK.
@176 Heisenbergcontext
Jun 09th, 2013 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am surprised that you are going to roll over and die, because of a little flak and paranoid doubts from people that think that someone with a different point of view must be an Argie or a puppet.
I have neither confirmed nor denied any association with Think or have ever felt the need to prove to anyone here where I'm from or where I live…….they can think as they wish…….“Water off a Ducks Back” to me.
Surprising though you find it unpleasant, but in the same breath accuse me of the same……a little hypocritical.
You have a sense of humour that is sadly lacking here and make an interesting read……..so please reconsider….
Does a lion need to prove it's a lion?
The further off from England the nearer is to France --
Then turn not pale, beloved snail, but come and join the dance.
Will you, won't you, will you, won't you, will you join the dance?
Will you, won't you, will you, won't you, won't you join the dance?
……..;-))))
@180 well cheers for that stink.....
Jun 09th, 2013 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally, I have reached the conclusion that the major sock puppet around here is Think himself, who is quite obviously the front end of an MI6 disinformation operation designed to convince the world that the Argentine claim to the Falklands rests primarily on snobbery and ethnic hostility.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@143
Jun 09th, 2013 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I cannot recall ever being harassed at the table in restaurants anywhere but Mendoza and Buenos Aires”
What a coincidence, huh... out of the whole world, Buenos Aires AND Mendoza.
You probably think that being so conveniently obvious actually hides your lies. Kinda like the theory that it is best to hide from your enemy where you are more likely to get caught, so that as maybe they won't even look there.
@144
Really? I guess being gun down like deer anywhere in your country does not play up to your equation.
You must think there is still no internet or 24 hour news to see this shit that is your country daily. People bloodied walking around, kids lying dead in classrooms, couples bullet-ridden hugging each other (dead) inside movie theaters. Who are you kidding. Your country is a disgrace to humanity.
@146
More lies? Read what you wrote and then read the British press and television, and the economic reports. What planet do you live in?
It's funny how the Americans and Europeans celebrate their “low crime” rate? Low from where? Remember the 70s and 80s? Worse than anything Argentina ever saw.
New York was a war zone back then. Very short memories.
@169, 172
You must be fucking retarted. England has played how many games together this year? How many has Argentina?
Do the math, if you can, and in five years when you can count to 6 or 7 give me the answer.
Besides, Argentina gives a shit about playing England anymore. Imagine, for there to be no incidents given how we hate you, tells you all you need to know. Losing to you is no biggie anymore, not that important.
@175
“However, I was discussing this with an American polo player who told me the Argentines are NOT well known for taking good care of their horses, something that rather tarnishes their image on the circuit”
And once again, the famous “Elaine jab”, where NOTHING about Argentina ever goes well.
Only country ever where anything good she claims is a lie. She is one sick person.
(176) Heisenbergcontext
Jun 09th, 2013 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some three years ago....., when I first commented (quite politely and un-confrontational) in here, I was, in a matter of days, called a nazi, a communist a fascist an ethnic cleanser, a pedophile, an amoral atheist, a dirty catholic dago, a spineless cockroach even an Englishman!……… (That last one did hurt!)
Same as you, I didn’t like the abuse and decided to leave…
Somehow I haven’t yet ;-)
Anyhow, you are an almost grown up free Australian……. so you may do as you please.
Hasta Siempre…..
The one and only: El Think, Chubut, Argentina
PS:
One for the road…:
You said…:
I'm also tired of hearing the dark mutterings of some South American politicians about the evil Western world. It's tiresome, wearisome and unnecessary”
I say… :
I'm also tired of the last 60 years of dark plottings of some evil Western Worlders. It has been tiresome, wearisome and unnecessary indeed………
Oh dear, TTT, temper, temper.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have been hassled to buy things in many countries - Guatemala was relentless - but no. never in any other country have I had plain beggars arriving at my table. I don't mind if people are trying to sell me something and accept when I decline, but something for nothing? I've never supported that. The last time I was in Mendoza, even my Argentine friends from BsAs got pissed off with it.
You are a silly little boy. Read my posts supporting the Argentine rugby players efforts. And my mentioning that the Polo Championships in Argentina are well worth attending. Stop trawling to feed your inferiority complex.
Oh and btw “I was discussing this with an American Polo player”
Jun 09th, 2013 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tomorrow the line will be “I was at a bar talking to a former astronaut about Argentina”...
Day after tomorrow: “Two weeks ago I had a cocktail with Gorbachev, talking about the Falklands...”
Day after that: “I actually chatted with Trolley's neighbor, she was mentioning that... ”
I know the ever intellectually dishonest British will never admit this, but isn't it uncanny how Elaine ALWAYS has some apposite anecdote or meet social circumstance to insert in order to lend “veracity” to her asseverations? Isn't it also uncanny how it is somehow always Argentina that is the topic of her Kaffeeklatsch's ?? And is it not and even more amazing fortuity that the conclusion of such exchanges is ALWAYS the supposed realization that some general idea the world has about Argentina is WRONG? And that it is always the POSITIVE ones? And never the negative ones?
How many times can you win the lottery in 24 hours? And then repeat the winnings the next day?
That's Elaine for you. Always winning the lottery multiple times daily in order to take her personal digs at Argentina. I insist she must have been dumped by some Argie polo player (or probably she was lied to that he was a polo player!).
@186 LOL! If you ever left your house, got a job and travelled, you too could meet a LOT of people. My job allows me to do that. It is a fundamental part of my job and something I love.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is NOT extraordinary for a person who travels a lot to meet a wide variety of people. I also travel a lot for purely personal reasons and meet some disparate and interesting people. It is normal for me and my circle of friends and family. Socialising is a feature of most people's lives unless they are a social cripple like you.
It really makes me smile that you think travel and meeting people is somehow so fantastical it can't be true. That just reflects your very small world.
@187
Jun 09th, 2013 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can't socialize that much when you “show up” here with a reply within 20 minutes of me posting a revealing expose about you (must have stung?). I posted at 5:20pm and you magically had a reply by 5:38pm, which means you must have seen it at last 10 minutes earlier, which means you have been sitting here awaiting replies.
I'm no genius nor a good detective, I just think rationally.
And yeah, “you praised the rugby players efforts”... who the hell would praise players after loosing by 30 points? Not even the losing players praised themselves. It is clear your unctuous attempt at supercilious condescension is misplaced, and was just another one of your literary tools to paint Argentina as an inferior in every sense. Argentina has nothing to prove in the rugby pr team sports sphere. We've beaten you many times including at your precious Twickengham.
What was so uncouthly avoided by you blustering Brits is that England has practiced and played as a unit through an entire tournament (the 6N), while Argentina just played their first game of the year, and it's mid-June. This may shock some of you, but usually a regularly trained unit in any activity will perform better than one who has not played in 8 months (since the last match was in November).
As for your sententious travel commentary, yes it is fantastical to me that all of you have travelled the world and don't even seem to work, have six figure salaries and retirement incomes, take week-end trips to Asia and Europe, and eat 1000 dollar dinners etc. This is what you all have told me. LOL
In fact I find it borderline quixotic. I do have a very small world, but at least I know my world is based on reality, not internet fables.
Think about it.
“”“”Sure they might say it is still better than here, but that's not the point.“”“”
Jun 09th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol, oh yes it is.
You need to calm down. I understand how frustrating it must be for you to see how you could be living your life if you were born to different circumstances. I am in England - off duty on a quiet Sunday. I shall be back in SoAm in a little over two weeks.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It really is not unusual for people to travel a lot. That you cannot comprehend it is your problem. I travel as part of my work, as do many people.
A dinner for 6 at, say, The Gaucho in London is $1,000 easily. If you get a job and work hard you too could enjoy the better things in life. You would have to work on your social skill and personality, but you could do it if you work really hard. And you would need the confidence to step out of your very small world.
@189
Jun 09th, 2013 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No it is not. You have miserable personal and family lives which more than compensate on the down side any extra material riches over us.
Trust me, you do not know what family and friends are. And never will.
@190
Why do you always keep telling me to calm down and temper? Do you think that somehow strengthens your arguing? Not when such comments sound desperate since there is no indication given by your opponent that they are in any way flustered. It is very easy arguing with you. I have been studying Chinese oral drills while palavering with you. It's not like my full focus is required.
I still find it quite quaint you people are still trying to convince me that the average European or American spends $1000 on a weekly dinner. The level of gall you people have is commendable, but you are still utter fools if you think you fool me.
Most Americans and Europeans spend no more than 20 per person on a dinner out, or about 100 per family of 4.
Try something less unclever.
171 I loved the band playing San Lorenzo march, sth very typical from here, that only is played here and you dont know but is very nice.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And Elaine what happenned that day you left Trolley a note in a Mendoza Hotel, you seem very curious of people´s lives in the forum.
Argentina is excellent in polo, in polo and horses because we have a very large tradition and extensions in/on the field (campo)
And if Europe is so blessed, why is France, Spain, Germany, northern Italy, Czech REpublic, Hungary, Poland... ALL UNDER WATER?????
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the UK also had severe floods in the last year.
I think someone is mad at you.
Elaine, The kids begging and selling trinkets at your table side are part of a mafia and if the restaurateur touches them or keeps them out the whole restaurant will be trashed or he will be hurt.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby, The same day a random gun shooter happened in the USA there was a family of 4 killed stabbed to death in their house while it was being robbed in BA suburbs. So don't pretend you don't have violence there. It is much much worse than the USA. We are 10 times bigger than you with more reporting that is why you see so much. Most of the crime in Argentina the gov't or Police are involve and are directing it. Which adds a whole nother layer of contemptible filth onto it.
(183)TTT
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know that I differ with you on most points but…..
I fully concord with you on that ElaineB(int)
The worst the feminine gender can offer….
Perfidious, scheming and envious….
Her “tale” at (175) about Argentinean polo ponies is typical of English double standards.
English posh people spend tens of thousands £ on psychotic inbred horses to satisfy their spoiled daughters need for “contact”. (Horsemanship is almost a 100% women’s sport in England)
Them horses live a sickening artificial stabled life, surrounded of useless “human love”….
Until they become too old…….
Sold in a jiffy then……..., shipped on a 96 hours restless, waterless & hay-less lorry journey to Bulgaria…….., slain, minced and returned as hamburgers to the English supermarket shelves.
Brinwash anybody?
@194
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh so now your excuse for seeing so much violence is you have 10 times the population? hahahaha, how typically poor an excuse.
Funny you don't complain about 10 times the population when it comes to you bragging that your coffee shops in one state make more money than in all of Argentina. Then it's OK, it shows how great you supposedly are, but when it is BIG numbers on something negative, then no, one muss dismiss it because it is a larger population.
You people are so predictable I enjoy 3rd grader logic, for a while at least.
BTW, I though you Europeans and Americans were pros at preventing floods, unlike us inferior argies, yet watching the news the last month I see thousands of Americans and Europeans floating around their neighborhoods and villages, hahahahahahahaha.
Now US falls out with ‘corruptible’ Argentina
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ARGENTINA’S relations with the US have reached an “all-time low”, a top think-tank warned last night.
Argentina also imports far more ephedrine, used in the making of many designer drugs, than its pharmaceutical industry needs, despite a US attempt at a crackdown in 2008.
This is said to be behind a flood of methamphetamine reaching the US.
“For the Mexican drug organisations, Argentina presented a number of benefits,” said Mr Farah, including “lax law enforcement and an easily corruptible government”.
Also worrying are Argentina’s ties with Iran. It is feared they could co-operate to build missiles.
As Argentina’s economy crumbles and allegations of corruption grow, de Kirchner seems increasingly desperate. She recently tried to divert attention from a damning television expose by rescheduling a big football match to air at the same time.
She has also started sending increasingly bizarre messages via Twitter. One read: “Yes, I’m a bit stubborn, and I’m also old. But it’s lucky to arrive at old age, isn’t it?”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/406133/Now-US-falls-out-with-corruptible-Argentina
Sounds like an objective British rag to me.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And heck, if Argentina is closer to Iran and Venezuela, must be because being closer to the USA and Europe is not profitable or that important.
@192 I said I enjoyed the band. I also said I thoroughly enjoyed the polo in Argentina. I am glad you saw the positives in my posts.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re the note: At the time I made my offer TTT was getting a lot of stick about not actually living in Mendoza from a number of people on the board. I gave him an opportunity to prove it beyond doubt if he wished and said I would leave a note for him at my hotel which he could collect and post if he wished to. I had no desire to meet him and I am sure he felt the same. He didn't accept the offer and was off line the entire time I was in Mendoza. Make of that what you will but I had forgotten it until you mentioned it.
I am curious about people in general, it helps in my line of work. :)
108. Yeah it is doing wonders for your economy being associated with rogue nations.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahaa
Comment removed by the editor.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OK
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And why is it important for you to prove an arg poster of a ridiculous forum lives in Mendoza?? If you dont want to meet him, why would someone care in leaving a note to him???
SO much curiosity, must you be some kind of spy or secret agent
:)
Farmers are striking next week.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everyday the ships are idled in port they lose U$, tick tock tick tock
They have the power to bring down this corrupt fascist dictatorship and I hope they wield it wisely.
Anyway, next Saturday to look forward to. Rgland vs England in BA. National occasion for RGland, the enemy in the capital, but the possibility of a humiliating defeat. Will KFC and Gollum dare to be present. They both take every opportunity to have a pop at their worst enemy. How will they handle an Rg victory or a drubbing? I Think they will find they have important business elsewhere, they don't dare risk humiliation in the capital. Or, will the la Campora thugs stage a riot? We should take our clock back....
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trolley: or she is a spy or she is in love with your comments and with you. :)))
Jun 09th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@201 TroLLey_to_Truth
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have now been observing your comments for several months - are you aware how often you repeat your shrill nonsense? You are so boring! Why don't you just take the money from La Cámpora and go away?
TTT and Malen. TTT was getting a lot of stick and I offered an opportunity for him to gain some credibility. (Something that seems very important to him). I didn't think for one minute he would do it and he didn't. That was his choice and I respect it. Only you seem to have remembered it so long after the event.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now don't you two children stay up too late, you have school tomorrow.
You people are such arrogant scum, truly.. Why is it that I need to prove anything to any of you?
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't just keep talking, everything that you post is verbal diarrhoea you prove it every time you open your mouth sad little man
@188 I don't understand your comment.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you got a response in 18 minutes. So what? I've read many of your “comments”. At what point did you think you became “rational”?
You need to recognise that argieland IS inferior. Self-interest can be understood. Demonstrable, self-serving lies can't. Viveza criolla?
Did you not notice that England effectively fielded its second team?
Don't knock your “world”. I'm sure that you have a six-figure salary. In pesos.
What you need to understand is that argieland is dying. Most of the world doesn't care. Various countries offer platitudes. But, really, you're on your own. You've done nasty things to people everywhere. You've cheated, lied and stolen. And now that you're in trouble, and you are, you expect those people to care? You commit genocide in a territory you've invaded. You send a pirate to a group of islands that already belong to someone else. You try subterfuge and fail. You send murderers and rapists. You sign, and ratify, a treaty you have no intention of complying with. You can't even get your story straight. You grab promises from one of the most evil people to ever live. And try to hang on to what he promised to your own pet dictator. You invade a peaceful, civilian community. And get a new hole torn in your ass. You tear up agreements in a “paddy”. You breach so many agreements that no-one will lend you money except those intent on taking your “country”. You fleece ordinary people around the world and refuse to pay your debts. You tell lies so much that everyone knows that you don't understand what “truth” is.
You need to understand that you and your “country” is considered worthless. By all means continue to shoot your mouth off. We don't care. We want to see you die. You don't care about us, we don't care about you.
@193 Didn't cause us to have to import billions of dollars worth of oil and gas.
@195 But so much better than you. Intelligent, rational, reasonable.
TTT don't forget to wipe your mouth before going to bed
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina, Elaine, we go to bed late, 11 PM or more, dont care about time, thanks for the advice.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You dont have to care of comments here, neither if they have credibility or not. Be free to believe what you want. :)
@211 that's because you have no jobs to go to
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@211
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 011 PM? That's really livin' the vida loca.
@211 LOL! 11:00pm, you little rascal, you. And with school tomorrow.
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When I was living in BsAs we went out for the evening at 11:00pm.
@211 Malen you sure you've not mixed up your time zones. Oh hang on the legion in Dover shuts at 11 so you and STINK (Doderyoverdover) can cuddle up, nice?
Jun 09th, 2013 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0116 A_Voice
Jun 09th, 2013 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your statement:“It's called a policy of appeasement in the face of a superior power or aggress... ...it's a bit like kidding on everything is fine when it's not, for the sake of peace and good relations ”Doesn't wash as you would be barred from using it in the ICJ by a plea of estoppel.
Definition of ESTOPPEL
: a legal bar to alleging or denying a fact because of one's own previous actions or words to the contrary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/estoppel
Land and Maritime Boundary between Cameroon and Nigeria (Cameroon v. Nigeria: Equatorial Guinea intervening)
It observes that an estoppel would only arise if by its acts or declarations Cameroon had consistently made it fully clear that it had agreed to settle the boundary dispute submitted to the Court by bilateral avenues alone
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/estoppel
Jurisdiction by Estoppel in the International Court of Justice
PUB. DATEOctober 1986
SOURCECalifornia Law Review;Oct86, Vol. 74 Issue 5, p1777
SOURCE TYPEAcademic Journal
DOC. TYPEArticle
ABSTRACTFocuses on the application of the doctrine of estoppel, a principle which prevents states from acting inconsistently to the detriment of others, to the international court of justice. Legal background of estoppel in the international regime; Reasons for the inappropriateness of applying estoppel to jurisdiction; Analysis of court cases applying estoppel.
ACCESSION #6773290
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/estoppel
214 Yes, very rascal (dont understand well what it means but imagine), believe me
Jun 09th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These Argentine trolls like Trolly, malen and Think should give up now guys like ElaineB are running rings round you and making you look like the idiots you obviously are
Jun 09th, 2013 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malen is right, we stay up at night much more than the British. While you sleep at 9pm we have dinner at that time, and go to sleep at midnight, or even later.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0The US abstention reflects the long held policy of neutrality on this issue. It is in the US interest to maintain this policy until the Malivinas are returned to Argentina.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 02:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0@177 ElaineB
Jun 10th, 2013 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0There’s no need for Heisenbergcontext to stay as you will always have Think to talk to.
Heisenbergcontext is a sockpuppet. Unknown why he chose to “announce” his departure on here when all the action has been on the following thread:
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/05/falklands-uruguay-lawmaker-calls-for-direct-links-with-kelpers-and-a-change-in-government-s-policy
220 Hippy
Jun 10th, 2013 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ It is in the US interest to maintain this policy until the Malivinas are returned to Argentina.”
The US alone, will decide what their interests are, just like the Fslklanders.
What is “best” for them may change at any time, as they please.
What is clear is that they refuse to endorse the Declaration against the Falklanders. Careful diplomats.
Canada takes a more demonstrative moral stand against the odious “Declaration”.
“...until the Malivinas are returned to Argentina.”
The US will never give their endorsement then, right?
LOL !!!
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment253493: The US interests are best served by the Malvinas being returned without it ever having to show its hand. And this is what is most likely to happen. In the unlikely event that the US is forced to reveal its position (and how might that happen?) then it will make a determination based on what it sees as its national interest at that time.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 04:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0In any case the return on the Malvinas will occur irrespective of the position that the US takes. This is why Argentina is not lobbying the US to take a position. On the other hand, as shown by the recent “referendum”, the maneuvers by the UK Secretary, and the various op-eds in British news media, the UK mistakenly sees the position that the US takes as crucial to its ability to maintain its occupation.
223 Hepatia
Jun 10th, 2013 - 05:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think it's largely irrelevant to the UK what any nation thinks, as the politicking has no bearing on what is a legal question. Since all legalities support their position, the rest is empty rhetoric. I hate to burst your little indoctrinated bubble, but I don't foresee under any circumstances, you ever getting possession of the Islands.
So far it really doesn't matter what any country other than the UK thinks. The UK hasn't changed policy on the Falklands to appease a third party yet and won't in the future.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 05:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see how the US clearly stating that the Islands are part of Argentina would even change a single thing.
The days of transferring populations to a foreign country at the whim of government is over. Now it moves in the opposite direction. Self determination and independence. East Timor, South Sudan, Kosovo and soon to be Catalonia by the looks of it. Argentineans can't seem to get their heads around the paradigm shift that has occurred in just the past 15 years.
The only path left for the Falklands is independence and that will inevitably happen, though there is no rush. The UK, as befits a nation that old, is taking the long term view and sees no need to rush over the actions of a foreign country in the past few decades. Argentina on the other hand is desperate to help divert people's attention from yet another economic meltdown.
I've yet to hear one good scenario where the Falkland Islands (without the consent of the inhabitants) become part of Argentina... other than wishful thinking. After all these decades and all that has been said, not a single one.
You would have thought that someone would have come up with a plausible scenario by now.
And yet.... no!
Anyone got one? Please just a short little scenario where this might happen.
Malvinas OAS statement: Latam support Argentine position!!!so clear!!!
Jun 10th, 2013 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@225
Jun 10th, 2013 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yet Australia denies the Aborigenes their self-determination. Just another Canada, the twisted aussies.
And oh Western Australia too. They are bit knackered already of subsidizing the lazy bums out east with their natural wealth. They want independence, and you are not giving it to them.
So much for Australian belief in self-determination.
223 Hippy chick
Jun 10th, 2013 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0“In any case the return on the Malvinas will occur irrespective of the position that the US takes. This is why Argentina is not lobbying the US to take a position. ”
Two things
1) Argentina knows there is nothing to be gained by “lobbying” (annoying) the US to take a stand - they are not going to support Argentina and it could backfire on Argentinavwhen their pestering becomes too much.
2)the “return” of the Falklands will never happen - Argentina wants the Argies wound up about a “cause” and an “enemy” and the Fslklands are tantalisingly close and at the same time, unattainable.
The Argie government has no intention of breaking the impasse militarily or with peace overtures - it's serves their purposes to keep bleating on about the status quo.
“The Argie government has no intention of breaking the impasse militarily or with peace overtures - it's serves their purposes to keep bleating on about the status quo”
Jun 10th, 2013 - 06:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0That should tell you how irrelevant the UK, Europe, and the US have become to us that they have nothing ECONOMIC or MATERIAL to offer CFK to change her attitude towards them. If CFK is as you all claim she is, and interested in grabbing cash whenever she can, you would think if your countries had any importance left she would be trying to cozy up. Obviously not.
Thanks for proving you know nothing Nostrils.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mind you that is becoming a little repetitive. But still appreciate the effort of you staying up all night to regale us with your slowly deteriorating mental state.
See you couldn't come up with a plausible scenario but instead chose to go waaaay off topic.
How very Argentine of you.
227 TroLLey_to_Truth
Jun 10th, 2013 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0You were lying at post #72 and I pointed out that you bear the burden-of-proof to prove your assertions at post #84. You have failed t do that, so all you have achieved is to publicly reveal yourself as proven liar. Yet you still continue to malign the good name of Canada. But it seems to be part and parcel of your national ethos to lie. This has been revealed by nineteenth a century American diplomat through to Brazilian and Italian publications to day. Former Uruguayan president Jorge Batlle said, “The Argentines are a mob of thieves, from the first to the last”, your doing an excellent job of proving him right. That is why your lying and thieving will not result in you achieving your indoctrinated fantasies as the Islands issue is strictly a legal one. Consequently such tactics would not work in the ICJ, which is why you will never apply.
Canada incidentally has been one of the power house contributers to the UN, by supplying peacekeeping missions to thirty-three countries between 1956 to 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_peacekeeping_missions
Lying and stealing are next door neighbors.
Proverb, Arabian
“or the wretched conceit of a liar, in supposing himself clever enough to invent stories so ingenious that they shall, for any time, impose on people for the truth, and the still grosser folly in imagining, as he must do, that the world will, without investigation and analysis, take for granted anything he chooses to assert that world more shrewd, more cunning, and as prying as himself what a conceited ass must the liar be! How superior over others in cunning must he not believe himself! What fools must he not suppose the rest of mankind!”
CHARLES WILLIAM DAY, The Maxims, Experiences, and Observations of Agogos
'Argentina ratifies its 'inalienable rights' over Malvinas Islands -
Jun 10th, 2013 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0The National Government once again recalled Argentina’s “inalienable right” over the Malvinas Islands, and its “strong will to promptly restart negotiations with the United Kingdom” over the what it considers to be an “unacceptable and anachronic colonial situation.”
In a statement released by the Foreign Ministry on the eve of the Day of Affirmation of Argentine Rights over the Malvinas, islands and the Antarctic sector, the Government said that “on January 3, 1833, authorities and Argentine settlers were expulsed from the islands by the United Kingdom, which led the illegitimate British authorities to proceed since then to run a strong immigration control in order to configure a population that is custom-made for their colonialist intentions...”
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/133141/argentina-ratifies-its-inalienable-rights-over-malvinas-islands
'UN will discuss cases of the Falklands while Argentina reaffirms claim - The Committee's decolonization of the Organization of United Nations (UN) will discuss Monday, cases of the Falkland Islands, Puerto Rico, and Western Sahara, among other issues.
The meeting will examine the implementation of the Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial peoples and countries and will discuss the situation in the 16 non-self-governing territories which occupied the attention of the instance called.
The members of the Committee, will again discuss the question of the Falkland Islands, archipelago occupied by the United Kingdom from 1833 and is considered by the UN as one of the 17 enclaves colonial that still exist in the world...'
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/133141/argentina-ratifies-its-inalienable-rights-over-malvinas-islands
@221 Think doesn't talk to me, he talks about me in terms dripping with misogyny. The sad old bugger is trapped in the 1950's.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0@232
Jun 10th, 2013 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0In other news, “Variety” reports that Andy Serkis is to play Hectoring Timerpunk in yet another remake of Arjuntine comedy classic “Carry on Claiming”.
@233
Not just you, it's pretty much the same every female poster. He tries to project this image of urbane gentlemanly sophistication, but underneath there's not much more than misogyny, snobbery, and ethnic prejudice.
But I'm sure you knew that already.
I was watching UK TV last night (we can do that here in Ireland - the Brits have these magic things called sat-ur-lites) and there was an ad for IKEA I think. The gist of the ad was that a nice suburban family wanted to carry out a makeover of their garden using IKEA kit but the gnomes in the garden were outraged and became very aggressive and demanding until eventually the lady of the house destroyed them with a hosepipe.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well the point of this little tale is that I thought to myself how like the Argentine trolls the gnomes were - wanting back something that wasn't theirs in the first place then getting their arses kicked by a superior power
PMSL
Jun 10th, 2013 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@220 That's alright then, Hepatitis, they'll be “neutral” forever. Didn't stop them giving us Sidewinders though, did it? Incidentally, we have money. You don't.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@223 “Malvinas” is in Cordoba. You can have it. Incidentally, what the UK sees as “crucial” is represented by 1500 British troops, Eurofighter Typhoons (who knows how many?), surface warships, the occasional nuclear-powered submarine, transport aircraft, helicopters. This is enough, supported by FOUR ballistic missile submarines, to destroy the argie armed forces AND most of argieland. And there's NOTHING you can do about it!
@226 So what? Just a bunch of mouthy useless layabouts!
@227 The situation in Australia is irrelevant. Another attempt at diversion when you have NOTHING!
@229 What an ignorant fool you are. What do we care what CFK's attitude is? Do you not yet understand that she and YOU are irrelevant? You think we should buy her off? Tell you what, I've got a toilet roll I can do without. Go for it. It's the best offer you're going to get!
@226
Jun 10th, 2013 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Malvinas OAS statement: Latam support Argentine position!!!so clear!!!”
That's irrelevant because of a little document called the UN Charter.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment253498: You are right about one thing - I will never get my hands on the Malvinas. I am not Argentinian. My interest is to get European countries out of America and the Malvinas Islands is just another point in that quest.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do not know which legal points you are referring to. But, in any case, I do not see legal arguments as the issue so I see no point arguing about them.
While it is the goal of every Argentine to get every single bastard European person and diplomat out of America for good, to DAILY harp on the Falklands has the opposite effect. I don't understand why the argentine government does not see the Europeans are like little children, the more attention you give to a topic, the more they find that topic “meaningful”.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One must apply infant logic with them. Then we can achieve the goal of all 40 million argentines who so desire to see Europe humiliated and put in their place, driven out of the Americas for good, and then be enslaved just like they did to the Africans and Asians.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment253589: Just on the off chance that you are responding to my post I think I should emphasize a few things. First, when I said that I want the Europeans out of America what I mean is that I want European sovereignty out of America. Also, I see not point in humiliating Europe. My guess is that they will manage to humiliate themselves in the coming decades but that will be nobody's business but theirs.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I think an eye for an eye is completely applicable to them. In fact, I think it is the only time in modern times that an Eye for an Eye should be applied. The Europeans need to suffer, and suffer plenty.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mother nature is doing her part, she is wise. But now it's time for Africans, Asians, and Americans to unite and step on their faces with the steel boot.
@242
Jun 10th, 2013 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tobes, as the former African Arifu, I'm sure you'll be able to answer this rather perplexing question.
Africans are from Africa, right?
Asians are from Asia?
Americans are from .... where exactly?
And why exactly is it that the liberated peoples of Africa and Asia should be uniting with the conquistadores and implanted european populations of South America in particular?
@242 - Tobias
Jun 10th, 2013 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you want Europeans to suffer? For what?
And if you truly want Europeans to suffer, you should start with yourself, because you are of European stock. You are of those Europeans that stole the land from the natives and murdered them. You're the imperialist coloniser, not the people who actually stayed in Europe.
So let us know when you are going to start with the eye for an eye stuff. Are you going to start with what? You could try penitence by giving the land back to the true Americans, namely the natives, you can't bring all their ancestors your ancestors murdered back to life, so maybe you should offer the native Amerindians your life instead.
That would be a start wouldn't it?
243, 244, Hans, LEPRECON
Jun 10th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL!!,
Why are we even responding to this child - he puts no thought into his posts - just his racial/ ethnic hatred of non-Argies:
@242TTT, Arifu, Toby Teen, Trolley, John PopeIII
“No I think an eye for an eye is completely applicable to them. In fact, I think it is the only time in modern times that an Eye for an Eye should be applied. The Europeans need to suffer, and suffer plenty.
Mother nature is doing her part, she is wise. But now it's time for Africans, Asians, and Americans to unite and step on their faces with the steel boot.”
OMG!!!
Best ignored.
Ja ja ja ha ha ja ha ja //////////
@243
Jun 10th, 2013 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because Europe redrew their borders, causing massive internal strife. It is the entity that are the nations of Europe who must suffer. Your government and you as tax payers support what your forefathers did.
You see you and @244 can yell all you want about the wicked argies, but the bottom line is you bear the mantle of your nation's past.
Unless you have decided to also dispense with ALL positive aspects of your nation's past. No more bragging about the British “democratic” legacy, no more boasting about scientific achievements, no more vaunting about having exported “sport codes” to other places.
That is the problem I have always highlighted and you keep confirming for me. You want the accolades of your ancestors' hits but then abnegate and/or remise the misses to all others but you: the natives, the ones that left Europe, your dead ancestors, anyone but yourselves.
Same with the Americans as exemplified by yankeeboy yesterday: he gasconades about the scale of US economic figures and turnover (in other words, when it suits them having a big population is “cool and mighty”), but then when you point out the mass killings which occur daily, he himself reneged of the population factor as a positive, and in fact used it as the blame “well, you hear about violence every day in the USA because we have 10 times the population”.
This is typical recreant behavior. Ride the train of “rich history/large population”, to berate and derogate others, like Argentina, who do not have the scale in population or the span in history as most of you do. Yet at the first twinkle of a boomerang in the sun, you dispense of your history or population size in order to shirk responsibility for the evil deeds of your “long gallant history” or your “grand sizeable population”.
Quite unimpressive.
@246
Jun 10th, 2013 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> you as tax payers support what your forefathers did.
Could you just explain me how that works? Does somebody travel back in a time machine with bags of cash, or something?
@247
Jun 10th, 2013 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You could answer your own query by answering my question:
How does it work that you, Europeans alive today, can take the credit anent the inventions, sports, artistic, and military successes of your forefathers, and then use them to spit in the face and rub it on the visage of all argentines you encounter about your self-bestowed superiority?
@248
Jun 10th, 2013 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The thing is I'm not in the habit of spitting in anybody's face or rubbing anything in their visage, and in fact the largest volume of spittle on this board, I would say, comes from your own good self. Mostly I just try to prod Argentines to support their arguments with either evidence or both. For some strange reason this tends to upset some of them.
@248 What is it that is so terrible in your life that you are green with envy of others and full of self-hatred?
Jun 10th, 2013 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby, Your reading comprehension is pretty terrible. My statement was pointing out we have Int'l news organizations, HUGE worldwide news organizations so you hear about the violence here more than you do in your country.
Jun 10th, 2013 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Statistically we are much less violent. Even with all of supposed mass shooters we still have less than you, Multiple stabbings of a whole family during a home invasion in San Isidro doesn't hit the worldwide news because it isn't news for a sh*thole country. We don't hear about all the violence in Africa or Caracas either it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It is just irrelevant for us. But news of a shooter in CA makes worldwide news because everyone watches CNN and violence is news here. There is also a liberal press that wants gun control and it is how they drive issues nationally. So everyone hears about over and over again even if it is a relatively minor issue compared to what you are used to in your country on a daily basis.
Understand?
251 yankeeboy
Jun 10th, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TOBY, UNDERSTAND.
LOLS with that one.
Is anyone else seeing banner ads with CFK's ugly mug and Ahmadinejad with a link to this article?
Jun 10th, 2013 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.atfa.org/argentina-and-iran-shameful-allies/
They are advertising like crazy...
Not good for Crissy, not good at all...
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment253612: I must say I find the British emphasis racial origins (“European stock”) over citizenship very disturbing. The fact of the matter is that Americans are Americans because they have declared themselves to be so. They do not need their “Americanism” validated by having being descended from “European stock”.
Jun 11th, 2013 - 03:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Until the late 19th century most Americans came from Africa. Massive immigration from Europe changed that balance somewhat. But, even before that happened, mixing of “stock” between Africans and Indigenous Americans and Europeans was wide spread. So, if we where forced (by British commentators) to decide where we came from then it would be more correct to say we came from Africa.
There was a interesting study done a number of years ago regarding Jefferson's and Sally Hemings' descendants. It transpired that many of these descendants had, before the study, considered themselves to be “White Caucasians” - “European stock” if you will. But, despite their appearance, they were also African (and, probably, a few other things as well). And so it is for all of us.
Michelle Obama and I look different to each other. But she is no more African than I am and I am no more European than she is. We are both Americans and we are both products of the American Revolution. And this is what differentiates us from Europe, Africa and all the other countries.
@251
Jun 11th, 2013 - 04:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, I have never suffered a crime.
And actually I search yahoo! for stories about your mass shootings. In Argentina you never see that on the news except for a few minutes when it happens, because it just fills some good time since that never happens here.
“And actually I search yahoo! for stories about your mass shootings”
Jun 11th, 2013 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Normal teenagers are out working, playing sport, travelling, living life, partying, socialising with friends and having sex.
But Nostrils sits in an searches Yahoo! for stories on mass shootings.
I'd LOL but it is just too bloody pathetic to even laugh at.
@254
Jun 11th, 2013 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0> The fact of the matter is that Americans are Americans because they have
> declared themselves to be so. They do not need their “Americanism”
> validated by having being descended from “European stock”.
Hepatia, thank you for pointing this out. And I presume that by the same token the fact of the matter is that Falkland Islanders are Falkland Islanders because they have declared themselves to be so.
I take it this means we can drop all this nonsense about 'implanted populations' not being a 'people' and therefore having no rights?
And while we're at it, we might also argue that one of the things which distinguishes Americans from Africans, is that the former are prime beneficiaries of colonialism, while the latter are prime victims of it.
@254
Jun 11th, 2013 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0” The fact of the matter is that Americans are Americans because they have
> declared themselves to be so. They do not need their “Americanism”
> validated by having being descended from “European stock”.
The fact of the matter according to your logic is the Falkland Islanders are Falkland Islanders as they have declared themselves to be so.
They do not need their nationality validated by being descended from European stock (Argentina conveniently ignores that the Falkland Islanders are not completely English in origin, but have Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Danish, German, French, Gibraltarian, St Helenian, Argentinian, Uruguayan, Chilean descendants-I am sure I have not completed that list). In fact unlike the Argentinians who mostly came from Europe, Falkland Islanders can trace forebears who were born in South America and chose to live in the Falklands because they preferred the predictability and security of British administration.
Antonio Rivero when presented with the choice of returning to South America or staying in the Falkland Islands under British administration in 1833 chose the latter because he was paid in silver. The fact that he was persuaded to stay by the British shows their reasoning must have been convincing.
They Falkland Islanders like Americans do not declare themselves to be Europeans as like Americans they are descended from Europeans.
Something missed by most people is that the Falkland Islands are not situated on mainland America-they like South Georgia, St Helena, Tristan da Cunha, Gough Island, Ascension island are in the South Atlantic Ocean.
The same way as many Pacific Islands are exactly that ,Pacific Islands, and not automatically subservient to a continent because they sit, in, an, ocean, not on a landmass.
Hepatia
Jun 11th, 2013 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0”I must say I find the British emphasis racial origins (“European stock”) over citizenship very disturbing.“
Really? You just proved your have never been to the UK. Look up the difference between jus soli and jus sanguine and tell me which applies to the UK?
Anyway, I recently read an interesting article on African immigrants to Argentina. Funny how you bought up this very subject today.
http://www.ibtimes.com/blackout-how-argentina-eliminated-africans-its-history-conscience-1289381
Oh by the way, thank you for supporting the Falkland Islanders and accepting them as a ”people”. Seems they will be considered as full part of the Americas as soon as they no longer see themselves as British.
Considering it too Argentina nearly 300 years between European settlement and the declaration of independence, then the Falkland Islanders still have another 100 before they are behind the game I guess.
Love it when people actually agree with me.
255. So you've never been to a Soccer game? I hear they have to stop letting in the public and now have intense security with rubber bullets to control the unruly and savage crowd.
Jun 11th, 2013 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I find that statement very hard to believe since EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY FRIENDS has been mugged at LEAST 1x in BA. If you truly live in the neighborhood you claim in Mendoza it is not safe either.
How many commando assaults happen in people's homes EVERY DAY!! EVERYDAY 10s if not 100s of people are subjected to armed vandals taking them hostage while their home is robbed. EVERY DAY! And why do only a few make it into the news?? Because people KNOW the POLICE are involved and they are even more scared to report it for fear of reprisals!
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment253744: The fact is that the present residents of the Malvinas Is. have declared themselves to be British - there was a “referendum”, remember. Europe does not have a tradition of self determination despite a short lived attempt by the US to introduce it. In any case there is no proposal that I know of that would require the residents to surrender their British citizenship.
Jun 11th, 2013 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But even if there was such a tradition in Europe that facility is not transferable to America.
Argentinian sovereignty will be returned over the Malvinas Is. within 25 years irrespective of what Europeans declare.
@ Hepatia
Jun 11th, 2013 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK are not going to hand over sovereignty to anyone, except the islanders should they wish independence.
Thus, how do you plan to get the islands within 25 years??
If we aren't going to GIVE you sovereignty and there is no way you are going to the ICJ, then presumably you plan to TAKE the islands. Is that your plan??
262 Redrow
Jun 11th, 2013 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The female communist that is Hepatia resides in the US, admitted out of her own post.
Yet another one of the estranged argie sympathisers with selective intelligence, or idiocy, you take your pick.
@261
Jun 11th, 2013 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact is that the present inhabitants of the Falkland Islands did not vote to be British in the referendum. They voted to be governed as a British Overseas Territory. That's not quite the same thing.
Those mythical 25 years!
Jun 11th, 2013 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everything is going to happen in 25 years.
Hepatia has been saying 25 years for a year NW, therefore I guess it is now 24 years. But I guess the mantra helps simpletons make their vain point.
25 years.
25 years.
However no one has ever given a plausible scenario of how this would happen.
No one.
Ever.
255 TroLLey_to_Truth
Jun 11th, 2013 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Sorry, I have never suffered a crime”
That. my friend, maybe a question of geography. Most countries don't tell to punish people for the laws of nature.
In most countries it is an individuals right to be a retard, although, in your case, you are abusing that right.
@261 Hepatia
Jun 11th, 2013 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sovereignty cannot be returned to Argentina, because Argentina has NEVER had sovereignty.
Now if Argentina wants to take this issue to the International Court of Justice, fine, the UK and Falklanders are sure to win.
Why would Argentina lose such a case?
1. Inherited rights - Spain left Argentina NOTHING. Plus there 'inheritance' has never been accepted as a legal way for a 'country' to gain land EVER in international law, be that 18th, 19th, 20th or 21st century international law.
2. Evicted colony - Nope that has already been proved a HUGE lie by Argentina. Even TMBOA has stopped bleating on about it.
3. Geographical proximity - There is no WAY on Earth that the ICJ would rule on that one because it would be opening a can of worms where every nation on earth would start claiming their neighbours land.
4. Argentine birds migrate to the Falklands - Would you seriously bring that up at the ICJ. They really would laugh you out of court.
5. The Falklanders aren't people so don't count - I really wouldn't bring that one up, you'll get spanked on human rights.
Why the Falklanders and UK would win:
1. Claimed by the British since 1690 - Yup we have evidence backing that up.
2. Continuous occupation by the Falkland Islanders for nearly 200 years (predating the existence of the Republic of Argentina), where they settled and developed the islands to a point where they govern themselves.
3. The treaty of perfect friendship of 1850.
4. Maps drawn up by the Argentine government after 1850 that clearly shows that they DIDN'T believe the Falklands to be Argentine.
5. The UN Charter which allows the people who live in the Islands the right to determine their own future.
If you won't take this to the ICJ, then just how do you expect to get the Islands? Hoping Santa will give them to you for Christmas?
261 Hepatia
Jun 12th, 2013 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ Europe does not have a tradition of self determination ”
Gee, I thought they had Democracy now?
The Fascists are gone, Communists are gone.
I don't suppose those were examples of Self-Determination, were they?
Whatever the “tradition” is that you spoke of, don't they, the European peoples have the power to determine their own leaders, now?!
Now there are Constitutionsl Monarchies, and Democratic Republics - would anyone in Europe willingly choose something else?
Please explain.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment253857: The UK government will hand sovereignty to Argentina.
Jun 12th, 2013 - 03:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0269hepatia
Jun 12th, 2013 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you just memorise these statements without understanding them?
Why would UK 'hand over' the Falklands to Argentina?
If the Fslklands became independent, why would they give up alliance with the UK?
If they had a choice of SA allies, the Fslklanders would choose their friends, the Chileans, instead of Argentina, don't you agree?
What can Argentina offer the Falklands?
Please explain, Hepatia.
What events could possibly take place that would result in this apparently far-fetched result?
Poor Hepatia. Does not compute.
Jun 12th, 2013 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are a credit to your country.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.
I/O error.....................
I have given up responding to this deluded woman because she just will not accept facts for what they are: THE TRUTH, which is why they are called facts.
Jun 12th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She claims to be living in the USA but I seriously doubt it.
272chris
Jun 12th, 2013 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it's a man, and most likely it's Sussie, but not on a “manic” day.
:-)
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment253930: The UK will return the Malvinas Is. to Argentina because it will be in its national interest to do so. Why it is in the UK's national interest requires a 50,000 word essay to detail - not possible on a medium which limits posts to 2,000 characters. The other question are irrelevant to the return and need no explanation.
Jun 13th, 2013 - 04:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well that was pathetic.
Jun 13th, 2013 - 06:24 am - Link - Report abuse 02,000 characters is plenty of space for an intelligent and articulate person to create a case. You clearly are not such a person.
What a cop out. Not important really as the Islanders can just declare independence whenever they want. With all that oil wealth they can even afford their own defence force.
Do me a favour, tell me when your baseless claim starts to look like it might happen. I'm sure I, and the rest of the world, won't understand or see the same thing.
Repeating falsehoods doesn't make them true just yawn-inspiring.
@274
Jun 13th, 2013 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0It os rather hard to see under what conditions a British government would choose to commit electoral suicide, particularly when Arjuntina persists in reminding us every day why we were obliged to fight a war. But surely in 2000 words you could at least give us a hint?
@273
Jun 13th, 2013 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0A man huh. Given your self confessed perverted activities that's more than can be said about you.
Troy this guy really likes you. He's forum chasing.
Jun 13th, 2013 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0You naughty boy Troy. Exciting the Chinese posters/sock puppets.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment254211: Without having read the essay you claim that it can be expressed in 2,000 characters or less? I don't think so. What is obvious from your posts is that you have a short attention span and lack insight. So, what is probably true is that essays longer that 2,000 characters are beyond your ability to comprehend.
Jun 13th, 2013 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They can declare independence but they wont because they (or the government of the UK) understand the implications of such a move.
It is interesting that you assume that “it” has not yet commenced. This goes to your lack of insight noted above. I think you should not rely on others to explain the world for you. You are a big boy now.
Hepatia,
Jun 13th, 2013 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never heard of Scribd and other similar websites
http://www.scribd.com/
Yep Hepatia
Jun 13th, 2013 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hard to refute fluff, which is pretty much what your continually unsubstantiated posts solely consist of.
UK will hand over the Falklands to Argentina.
No proof.
No fact.
No argument.
Falklands won't be allowed to declare independence.
No proof.
No fact.
No argument.
The process for Argentina to take the Islands has already started.
No proof.
No fact.
No argument.
Hepatia you are everything with have come to expect from the Malvinas lobby: vacuous, ineffective and incapable of independent and coherent thought.
If you feel that attacking me personally masks your inability to succinctly summarise your argument then you only prove the opposite. Over several posts you haven't actually said anything to back up your claims.
Nothing.
That's your modus operandi. Swan in, claim or state something, disappear.
Post 261: “Argentinian sovereignty will be returned over the Malvinas Is. within 25 years irrespective of what Europeans declare.”
In your 3 subsequent posts which could have tallied 6,000 characters or let's say 1,000 words, you could have provided 2% of this supposed 50,000 word essay that resides in your head. Now if you lack the ability to provide a synoposis of something using 1,000 words, then I doubt your ability to write 50,000 words.
So the logical conclusion is that you can't argue the point you stated. Which supports the impression that you have on these fora as a vacuous poster that is incapable of elucidating and unable to answering even the most basic of questions.
You may feel some intellectual superiority in standing above the fray on here, however it is my point of view that prevails; not yours; and anyone who googles and might come across these comments is going to be reading my version and opinion not yours.
So all you do is provide a platform for my ideas and arguments to gain a wider audience.
So thank you again. You are extremely reliable and consistent.
@277
Jun 14th, 2013 - 05:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0It does not surprise me that you idolize this scum. After all attacking people who are weaker than you is part of the Brit character.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment254409: I live in a Minimum Phase universe. Therefore, given the lack of applicable theorem or physics theory, the proof that you require is not available. How is it in the universe in which you live?
Jun 14th, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your point of view may prevail but whether it does or not will not delay the return of the Malvinas Is. one millisecond.
I suggest that you widen your reading list. For instance you should avoid MercoPress which is regarded as nothing more than a British run propaganda site.
Extremely reliable and consistent.
Jun 14th, 2013 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@283hepatia
Jun 14th, 2013 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I suggest that you widen your reading list. For instance you should avoid MercoPress which is regarded as nothing more than a British run propaganda site.”
Hepatia,
You yourself, freely choose to post on MercoPress.
If you feel that it is just propaganda, you can participate or not.
I might point out though, there does not seem to be any bias in the selection of news stories, nor do the writers of the articles seem to editorialise in favour of the UK or Argentina, generally.
Any account-holder like yourself, is free to comment on the articles provided the tone is civil, according to the rules.
If you do make a statement or forward an argument however, expect to be called on to support it with evidence.
There are many individuals who post on here, private citizens representing nobody but themselves, and their opinions are their own.
Unfortunately, there are also a number of posters, or posters with multiple accounts, who appear to have an agenda for political, if not territorial gain, at the expense of the Falkland Islanders.
This site is used by many such posters, to promote their propaganda for Argentine sovereignty over the Fslklsnds.
This is refuted by mostly pro- Falklsnd posters with opposing views and opposing facts.
Propaganda site, no.
The discussion forum is a theatre used to counter Argentine 'Malvinas son Argentina' propaganda, however.
Jamaica is a member of the OAS, right? And only Canada and the US (abstaining) failed to support Argentina? So it sounds like the President of Argentina has the full backing of the Queen of Jamaica when it comes to the Malvinas. Excellent news!
Jun 14th, 2013 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/06/07/malvinas-oas-statement-latam-support-argentine-position-canada-against-and-us-abstains#comment254614: I will not bother with most of your post but I will point out the lack of bylines on the articles.
Jun 15th, 2013 - 03:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0287
Jun 15th, 2013 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I will not bother with most of your post but I will point out the lack of bylines on the articles.”
Hepatia,
Still you respond with no argument and no substance to give meaning to what you say.
I will respond with the same economy - “It is unbiased reporting”
@274
Jun 15th, 2013 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why it is in the UK's national interest requires a 50,000 word essay to detail -”
Try summarising it to a few points. Give us 5 reasons it is in the interests of the UK to yield to Argentina's imperialist ambitions.
The UK's national interest is irrelevant, as it is the interests of the Falkland Islanders who were born in the Islands that is important.
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