MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands’ C24 debate: Timerman heads Argentine delegation and includes two governors
The governors, from Tierra del Fuego and Santa Fe will be part of the delegation when the Argentine presentation before the UN Decolonisation Committee on the Falklands/Malvinas sovereignty dispute, next Thursday June 20 in New York. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSo the case for decolonization rests on the claim that the population has no rights? And we're supposed to believe this is a different country from the dictatorship?
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Has it been a year, they go by so quickly. It sounds like Groundhog Day once again at the C24. Same old rubbish, same old people, same old result. Life continues as normal in the Falklands.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yawn.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Same old same old.
As Timidman says the British, “after 180 years of illegal occupation of our territories”.
Prove it Mr Timidman. Go to the International Court of Justice and PROVE what you say is true!
You can't, so you should STFU.
Also the whole part of the Tierra del Fuego thing is a laugh. The Falklands were British long before the murderous, genocidal Spanish colonists stole the Tierra del Fuego from the native population.
Come on, try selling THAT at the International Court of Justice.
Also Mr Ban Ki Moon has NEVER said that he didn't recognise the Falklands referendum. He listened patiently to what the Argentine delegation were crying about, and then told them that the UK is NOT breaching ANY UN Resolutions, be they binding or non-binding.
Also the UK have offered to sit down and talk to Argentina, but it is Argentina that WON'T. Do they honestly believe that the rest of the world can be duped as easily as the people of Argentina?
Gosh, the Argentine government has been flogging this dead horse for years, perhaps they should try a different approach.
How about this novel idea. STOP stealing the money and resources from the Argentine people, and actually do SOMETHING to improve Argentina.
Too difficult? Can't be bothered? Too busy stuffing your bank account with the money of the people? Easier to wave the Malvina's Myth than to work for a living, eh?
By the way, Mr Timidman, well done keep it up. The more you cry wolf over this, the more the world switches off to you, your fascist nazi-like policies, and your victim mentality.
Also, pay back the money you owe, you bunch of thieves.
So the Chagos islanders being evicted with no self-etermination was right or wrong in Argentinas eyes?
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0If it was wrong as they seem to suggest, why would they like a repeatition?
Interestingly the European court has ruled that by accepting significant settlement, the Chagos islanders determined their own position.
Perhaps Argentina should offer the 3000 islanders final settlement..lets say $1 trillion.
Oh..they havent got that much...lol
Its true that the treatment of the people of the Chagos islands was and still is a disgrace,they won their case in the highest court in Britain only to have overturned by a Royal degree,a medieval relic with no place in a modern democracy,the Brits have a neck complaining about other peoples legal practices whilst allowing this!
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0However two wrongs dont make a right,and the people of the Falklands/Malvinas are still entitled to a voice in their future.
The remit of the Decolonialization Committee, surely, is to determine the status of “colonialization” - not to determine whether the sovereignty of the Falklands Islands archipelago is either Argentine or British. It seems to me that these are two very different subjects.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the islanders are happy with their legal status of “Self Governing Overseas British Territory” then, surely, as far as this benighted committee is concerned that is that! The matter of sovereignty should be pursued elsewhere - the International Court of Justice perhaps?
it is interesting how the Argentines “support” the Chagos “people” and recognise the islands in the indian Ocean as “their homeland”...double standards??
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0.... it's hard to see what could be more damaging to Chagos than Arjuntina getting its way with the principle of self-determination. But I'm sure the Chagossians must be grateful for their “support” and “friendship”.
Some questions:
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine press release says: “At the C24 meeting, Argentina will reiterate its request for the UK to sit at a table and negotiate a peaceful solution to the sovereignty controversy over the Malvinas”
But, the Argentine constitution says: “The Argentine Nation ratifies its legitimate and non-prescribing sovereignty over the Malvinas, South Georgias and South Sandwich Islands and over the relevant maritime and insular areas, as they are an integral part of the National territory.”
So, what could the Argentine government possibly “sit at a table and negotiate”? The only outcome acceptable for them according to their own Constitution is a total handover of the islands. So with only one solution possible there is really nothing to negotiate.
And why are Argentina referring to the Falklanders as an “implanted population”? Strictly speaking all peoples of the Americas are “implanted”. 97 % of the population of Argentina are of European origin. Why are they not “implanted”? Many of the most ardent “Malvinistas” ar just first or second generation Argentines.
Looking at the resolution 67/134 that was adopted by the General Assembly last year
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/67/134
2 parts caught my eye
(c) To continue to examine the political, economic and social situation in the Non-Self-Governing Territories, and to recommend, as appropriate, to the General Assembly the most suitable steps to be taken to enable the populations of those Territories to exercise their right to self-determination, including independence, in accordance with the relevant resolutions on decolonization, including resolutions on specific Territories;
and
11. Urges the administering Powers concerned to take effective measures to safeguard and guarantee the inalienable rights of the peoples of the Non-Self Governing Territories to their natural resources and to establish and maintain control over the future development of those resources, and requests the relevant administering Power to take all steps necessary to protect the property rights of the peoples of those Territories;
I don't understand why this doesn't apply to the Falkland Islanders or territories involved in a sovereignty dispute. Or what the fuss is over the terms populations and peoples, both are used here.
Why is the governor of Tierra del Fuego there? That area wasn't part of the Argie state in 1833, the year they harp on about, so why is it at all relevant? “We've moved the goalposts to support our claim, please pay attention!” No clue at all, these people.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“-180 years of illegal occupation of our territory”
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Our occupation is not illegal.
2) lts not your territory.
3) You know this, therefore you are liars.
“-the right to self-determination is not applicable to an implanted population”
1) We are no more “implanted” than you are.
Many of us have been here 7 or 8 generations & we never murdered any natives, because the land was deserted.
2) You are definitely “implanted”.
Most of you have been there only 2 or 3 generations & your ancestors DID murder the native people, then stole their land, as that land was not deserted.
3) Most of you would know this, ergo you are receivers of stolen goods & the descendants of thieves & murderers.
We will not talk to you, & NO we will not discuss OUR Sovereignty.
Do your worst, if you can. ha ha.
Perhaps with Timerman, holding his neck repeatedly while emphasizing the point might help, but I doubt it.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is the C24 an appropriate venue for Argentina to raise their colonisation attempt?
Jun 18th, 2013 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shouldn't any decolonisation dialogue be between the UK and the people of the Falklands only?
And haven't the islanders already made their wishes clear?
If the Argentinians believe they have the rights and (more importantly evidence) to the Falklands, they should just take it to the ICJ. That is the appropriate venue.
You would think they don't do this because it's too useful a political tool to distract the masses whilst the country falls apart around them and they don't have a case to colonise the Falklands against the will of it's people. But I'm sure that's not the case.
'Timerman Heads Argentine Delegation and Includes two Governors'
Jun 18th, 2013 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whoopie!
Yawn, honest I'm getting so bored of this now can't we just nuke them ? joking obviously but this is getting so old now, the decolonisation committee has no powers to do anything, I say decolonise the decolonisation committee , they are as much use as a chocolate fireguard, The Falklands and Britain and just going to reiterate that no talks can take place without the islanders and that sovereignty is not on the agenda, I'm starting to think there is a real problem with these Argentines, I mean are they totally thick?
Jun 18th, 2013 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0My dog took a dump on my lawn, I told it not to do that and it never done it again, this is a dog - an animal with more understanding than that of an Argentine Government, don't get me wrong I have no hatred of any people, just a hatred of idiots, I think to settle this once and for all we just purchase Argentina, I mean we all know its for sale right :)
Wasn't the female governor the one who signed the Murderers Bill into law which banned British flagged ships and then had to back down when the inevitable fall in revenue from the cruise threatened a riot?
Jun 18th, 2013 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good choice of delegate by twat face then.
@ 10 trenchtoast
Jun 18th, 2013 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0So at last the UN General Assembly has said that the population of the Falklands do have the right to self determination:
“ To continue to examine the political, economic and social situation in the Non-Self-Governing Territories, and to recommend, as appropriate, to the General Assembly the most suitable steps to be taken to enable the POPULATIONS of those Territories to exercise their right to self-determination, including independence, in accordance with the relevant resolutions on decolonization, including resolutions on specific Territories;”
So that is another RG myth/lie/claim down the toilet.
Add to that, should the Falkland Islanders be 'an implanted population' then so are the RG's.
This is a good start to the day!
Fabiana Rios official denomination is Governor of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and South Atlantic Islands,
Jun 18th, 2013 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who the hell gave them Antarctica, never mind the South Atlantic Islands ?
Falklands’ C24 debate: Timerman heads Argentine delegation and includes two governors
Jun 18th, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, not content with humiliating himself at the UN ( again ). Laughing Boy Timerman has decide to take to other people along with him and humiliate them at the UN as well...............
Happy days.......
@19
Jun 18th, 2013 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just wishful RG thinking.
Tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth.
Lets hope they drop some more clangers like they did last year, when they told the world they didn't take over from the Spanish and their interpretation of the Jewett incident on the Islands was also BS.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bring on the little bald soviet, I think he could be a car crash waiting to happen.
If anyone attached to the FIG reads this, make sure you video any of these fools making idiots of themselves and then get it up on youtube. I saw a video of the chair of the c24 give his little Nazi rant on a news website last year, but then could not find it again: stuff like that is gold to the Falklander's cause and needs to be preserved and made available to the public.
Haw haw haw....Yup these Argy dudes are a laugh a minute...Now what to do...Yawn...Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!
Jun 18th, 2013 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Fabiana Rios official denomination is Governor of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and South Atlantic Islands””
Jun 18th, 2013 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0umm... Tierra del fuego was a Argentinian colony until the early 90's. So much for RG's stand against Colonialism! (imperialist scum lol).
23 El capitano: “...dudes...”
Jun 18th, 2013 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL
you'll be calling them noobz next
”will rather hammer on ‘the UK double standards’ referred to recent rulings involving the Chagos people, evicted in the seventies (with no consideration for self determination)“
Jun 18th, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is going to look stupid as Argentina don't believe in Self Determination themselves-so giving us the chance to reveal their double standards-not really very clever is it?
Of course they could go to the ICJ
”Argentina together with officials from CELAC; UNASUR and MERCOSUR made an official presentation before UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon to reject the referendum organized and sponsored by the British. “
Their problem was that it wasn't organised by the British and there is documentation to prove this any time the UN want to investigate.
Also this means that if they don't accept the Falkland Islanders as not being British , I can't understand why they have a problem with the islanders being present at talks.
”according to which the implanted population decided to continue under colonial status.“
Rather than exist under Argentine colonial status run by implanted Europeans.
”Argentina will reiterate its request for the UK to sit at a table and negotiate a peaceful solution to the sovereignty controversy over the Malvinas, “
Talks were offered but Argentina refused to take part-how dumb is that?
Thank you Argentina, for making our cretinous politicians in the UK appear brilliant by comparison to your no hopers.
@16
“The Falklands and Britain and just going to reiterate that no talks can take place without the islanders and that sovereignty is not on the agenda, I'm starting to think there is a real problem with these Argentines, I mean are they totally thick?”
You can't come to another conclusion than that. All that will happen after their new pantomime at the UN is that everything stays the same as the Argentinians don't go to the ICJ
So many good points. Why is argieland going to this debate? C24 is the Special Committee on the Situation with Regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples. The relevant NON-BINDING UN resolution is 1514. A resolution that the UK, together with others, neither signed nor ratified. So where is its applicability to a British territory? Then, argieland says that the Islanders aren't a “people”. So why are they on a list of “peoples”? T he “Special Committee” has no role to play in sovereignty. Its chairman has said so. So why is argieland attending? Even more important, why should it be heard? Let's delve a little deeper. Article 73 b. of the UN Charter says “b.to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement”. The Falkland Islands have just had a referendum under international oversight. Doesn't the result indicate the political aspirations of the people? In Article 74 it says “Members of the United Nations also agree that their policy in respect of the territories to which this Chapter applies, no less than in respect of their metropolitan areas, must be based on the general principle of good-neighbourliness.....” And how has argieland demonstrated its “good-neighbourliness”? In Article 76, we find “to promote the political, economic, social, and educational advancement of the inhabitants of the trust territories, and their progressive development towards self-government or independence as may be appropriate to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned, and as may be provided by the terms of each trusteeship agreement.” “freely expressed wishes”!
Jun 18th, 2013 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't truly understand the use of the Chagos Islands as an example by the Argentines. The Argentines use the Chagos Islands as an example of British colonialism and therefore condemn the act, but then want Britain to to do it again to the Falklands just so Argentina get what they want... it is a bit absurd.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In essence...Britain is bad for the treatment of the people of the Chagos Islands, but please do it again so we can benefit. If you don't you will be a hypocrite!
Idiots.
@28
Jun 18th, 2013 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Logical consistency has never been a major consideration in the Malvinaverse, or Mercopress would be out of business.
Let me continue. In Article 80 of the UN Charter, it says “Except as may be agreed upon in individual trusteeship agreements, made under Articles 77, 79, and 81, placing each territory under the trusteeship system, and until such agreements have been concluded, nothing in this Chapter shall be construed in or of itself to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments to which Members of the United Nations may respectively be parties.” Legislative gobbledygook but, basically, the Islanders retain all the rights they had before being made a trust territory. That's nice. Did anybody ask the Islanders if they wanted to become a trust territory. By what “right” does the UN have any say in the affairs of a free people? And, just as a thought, in Article 87 of the Charter, it says “c.provide for periodic visits to the respective trust territories at times agreed upon with the administering authority”. In this it refers to the Trusteeship Council. And when, pray, did the Trusteeship Council last visit the Falkland Islands?
Jun 18th, 2013 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4,5,7,28 The Chagos Islands are a complete red herring. For a start, no indigenous population. No fresh water, you see. Then, Britain bought the Islands from the Mauritian company that owned them. They used contract labour to operate coconut plantations. An analogy. If you buy an office block from another company, are all the people in it now your responsibility? Or do they continue to be the responsibility of the previous owner? But the British government did give the Mauritian government money to resettle them. The Mauritian government, of course, pocketed the money and did nothing. So the people from the Chagos Islands resorted to blackmail. No wonder argies like too bring it up. It's what they would do. Incidentally, there was no royal “degree”, whatever that is. It was a decision of the Judicial Committee of the House of Lords.
Will this meeting also be live streamed, I am so, so looking forward to seeing it.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My computer was playing up for the last one and I had to rely on you guys for a running commentary, I have not had so much fun, outside of a bed, since.
Bring it on, I can not wait to hear their arguments, as Cap or Yankeeboy would say, it should be a doozy.
25 Screenname
Jun 18th, 2013 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I 'Think' you “pwned” him!
From report of Timerman's visit to India in today's Buenos Aires Herald -
Jun 18th, 2013 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“With only three days until the UN Decolonization Committee meeting, Timerman thanked India for its support over the Malvinas, noting the country has a “a very respected position” due to its colonial past.”
@3
Jun 18th, 2013 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Also the UK have offered to sit down and talk to Argentina, but it is Argentina that WON'T. ”
The word is CAN'T not won't, that would almost be tantamount to treason, the constitution would need to be rewritten!
Bet you would be happier with this headline……..
Implanted Population travels to Country of Implanted Populations to Complain to Representatives of Implanted Populations about an Implanted Population!
………. never said I wasn't partial to a bit of slapstick in a “Comedy of Errors”
@32…..I “pwned” myself, or did Screenname just do that??
I wonder how Timberhead et al will handle this:
Jun 18th, 2013 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“To continue to examine the political, economic and social situation in the
Non-Self-Governing Territories, and to recommend, as appropriate, to the General
Assembly the most suitable steps to be taken to enable the populations of those Territories to exercise their right to self-determination, including independence, in accordance with the relevant resolutions on decolonization, including resolutions on specific Territories; ”
Taken from UN General Assembly Resolution 67/134 date 14th January 2013, available here:
http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/67/134
My guess is that they will just ignore it, any takers?
And if course it's the governor of Tierra Del Fuego, most of whose jurisdiction exists solely on paper. And it's a province that exists ONLY as a sockpupet to make claims on land it never has had and never will -- not to mention the fact that BA couldn't be bothered to give them full province status until well after the Islands were liberated from their celebrated-hated-celebrated-hated Junta's jackboots long after '82.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Colonialist fascism as an afterthought. What a concept. And where do they go? The only international body that will give them all the validation they desire: C24 - the Great Blue Father who these days has nothing better to do than ignore the terrorizers they are supposed to “decolonize” so they can support the colonialist ambitions of their friends -- and themselves.
@35 Not really. I wonder what the “order of speakers” will be? In the case of Gibraltar, I understand that Spain got to speak after Gibraltar. There's something wrong with that. Hopefully, the Falkland Islands will get to speak after argieland. I realise that the FIG delegation will have a prepared speech. But it should take the opportunity to follow Gibraltar's example and get in a few digs at the Committee, argieland and its cronies. For instance, in view of Morejon-Pazmino's past public comments, they should ask why he hasn't disqualified himself. They could go on to question why the UN thinks it has the right to decide the future of THEIR homeland. They should question why any latin american country has even been allowed to speak. The “decolonisation” of the Falkland Islands is a matter between the people of the Islands and the United Kingdom. And it's going fine. They should bring up the matter of the term “peoples” and ask the Committee to define the term. They should demand that the Committee say whether Falkland Islanders are a “people” or not. And, either way, what the Committee's role is. If they are not a “people”, then they are not a concern of the Committee. If they are a “people”, then argieland and its cronies have no business appearing before the committee as they are only intent on colonialism. They should ask what “knowledge” the Committee brings to bear as it has never visited the Islands. They, like Gibraltar, should ask what steps they need to take for the Committee to agree that they are “self-governing”. They should “demand” that the Committee “request” argieland to cease all activities against them that are in breach of the UN Charter. Let's face it, this C24 nonsense is just “jollies” for a few. In fact, perhaps the FIG delegation should question what the C24 has actually achieved in 50-odd years. Attack is the best form of defence!
Jun 18th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34
Jun 18th, 2013 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why not rewrite the constitution, not worth a s***e anyway. If as you say you want sovereingty over the FALKLANDS you will have to change not only the constitution but also your attitude
37 well said, unfortunately the Falkland delegation will show the Committee far more respect than they deserve. Shame though I would have paid good money to see it but knowing this lot the would not have the good grace to be ashamed
Jun 18th, 2013 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@37 Conqueror
Jun 18th, 2013 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you miss that the extract from 67/134 refers to the inhabitants of NSGT's as 'populations', not 'peoples', and confirms that they have rights to self-determination?
“Fabiana Rios official denomination is Governor of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and South Atlantic Islands”
Jun 18th, 2013 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol, quite a presumptuous title.
@37 The trouble is that the committee is clearly rotten and the chair can do lots of tricks to bounce people who have a right to speak from speaking from interrupting with bogus coordinated points of order to “agenda-ing” people off the floor in mid sentence. Just ask your fellow countryman, Roy Brown of the Intern. Humanist and Ethical Union, as to how many times the corrupt “Human 'Rights'” committee has shut him down from speaking against brutal rights violations from committee member states.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@36 (and that should obviously say “Territories” not “terrorizers”. The terrorizers are the fascists in the pay of Buenos Aires who like their fascist forbears seek to delegitimize people so they can do what they want with them and still be utter failures.)
Well, we all know this committee is a sham, its like an anti British club. I wish the government would note the nations on it and make absolutely sure that they receive not one penny of our aid budget.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gollums hilarious posturing should provide this comment board with plenty of juicy titbits to chew over. He is sure to lie copiously and display his non existent diplomatic skills. Stink, Toby, Raul and the other sockpuppets will have plenty of bile to spew, ita all so predictable.
And,,, it won't make a blind bit of difference to the Falkland Islands or Britain!
12 - Isolde - “Many of us have been here 7 or 8 generations ”
Jun 18th, 2013 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What number constitutes many.
Out of 1600 voters......on 13,000km2
Id wild guess 75% of the campers didn't have 1 grandparent born there.
(90% for both grandparents).
Id more reasonably guess 75% of campers have lived for more than 1 year in their real home G.B. (aka falklands operational base 1)
Re my @33
Jun 18th, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This appears to be the official report of Timerman's visit to India. No mention of the Falklands/Malvinas matter.
truthdive.com/2013/06/18/INDIA-SEEKS-CO-OPERATION-WITH-ARGENTINA-IN-UNITED-NATIONS-OTHER-MULTILATERAL-FORUMS.html
Why are the campers so afraid of Bi-lateral talks between GB and Arg.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After all, half of them come recently from England.
Who gives a toss what number constitutes many?
Jun 18th, 2013 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's their island.
Their vote.
Their referendum.
Their result.
They do not need to justify their demographics or their democracy to a national of a foreign country. Frankly it's none of your business or your countries.
It's not your island, never was, never will be.
@46
Jun 18th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just supposing these bilateral talks were to take place, what would 'they' 'talk' about?
A précis:
RG's: When are you going to give/vacate/leave/surrender the Islands, how soon?
UK: We are not. Next question/subject?
RG's get up and walk out.
44 Vestige
Jun 18th, 2013 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say (to chere Isolde)....:
12 - Isolde - “Many of us have been here 7 or 8 generations ”
I say...:
Just for your kind info; chere Isolde is a youngish English memsahib...., born and raised in Niugini......, educated in Oz......, lived in Indonesia and Philliphines and currently squatting and raising children in occupied Malvinas.....
@48
Jun 18th, 2013 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly. There is nothing to discuss as the Argentine constitution only permits one outcome of that dialogue. And the other parts are not interested in that outcome.
@49
The number of generations for a single person (how do you know that, anyhow?) is not important. For instance Gen. Galtieri was a first generation Argentine (Italian-born parents), so is also Mr Timerman (Ukrainian-born parents) and Mr Filmus (polish/moldavian parents). Why are they not “implanted”, when the Islanders are called by such names?
There is no such place as the Malvinas, never has been, never will be occupied or otherwise.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 047 - “It's not your island, never was, never will be”
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like that line, makes me think of , hmmm, ...Ireland
Hey,
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just checked the voting for UN General Assembly Resolution, and gues who voted for it, Argentina. We now therefore have them voting to support the statement that the populations of the NSGT's have the right to Self Determination.
Anyone else see the irony of this?
Think what you like, they are still not your islands, never were and never will be.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is about you and other peoples islands, some sort of Argentine fetish?
@46 Vestige. Still waiting to your definition of a 'trolol from a previous post.'
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So in the Conquest of the Desert all the Planters of Argentina had loads of grandparents from Argentina (don't really know what grandparents have to do with anything), while the Indians had no rights. To make an analogy with Ireland I really think the Indians are the Irish although you obviously know nothing from British history. From the Carvettii tribe.
@42 Solution is simple. Tell C24 that the Falkland Islands deny any “right” of the C24 to interfere in the Falkland Islands. The Falkland Islands does not “recognise” the UN.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@44 Keep “guessing”. None of your business.
@46 Not “afraid”. The word you are looking for is “contemptuous”.
@49 And you're a cowardly, homosexual, paedophile, faggot slug. Now, you prove your statement and I'll think about proving mine. But you won't, will you? Because you're a shit-sucking slab of slime. Do you understand that you need to fuck off? Because, demonstrably, you have NO credibility. LET'S ALL JUST IGNORE TWINKY THE MAGGOT!
Go to Hell Argentina. - Millet USA
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@55 Alan
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“you obviously know nothing from British history. From the Carvettii tribe.”
What are you saying?........that you are from Carlisle?
OK=OK=OK=
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We get it, argentina via CFK has now done the ultimate,
A letter of protest has now been sent to every human being on the planet,
So there is no excuse that know one knows,
198 countries now back her,
And the UN has collapsed from exhaustion,
[ NOW WHAT]
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
And still nothing will change
Ah we know= TAKE IT TO THE ICJ, cowards..lol
.
@58
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Carvetti tribe based from Southern Uplands to Morecambe Bay. Basically Cumb. & westmorland
@60
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought they were based Solway Firth area and centred at Carlisle??
Going to have to check!
I do know evidence was based on stuff found at Penrith......need to look it up!
I do love it, when a bunch of implanted Argentinian colonists start moaning (RG's national sport) about imperialism. The hypocrisy of this debate is pretty sick, coming from a modern country like Briton.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unless the UN C24 committee starts adding colony's like Tibet, the West Bank, West Papua (and a whole load of Indonesian islands), Baluchistan, the Basque, Kashmir, Kurdistan (anyone think of anymore?), its a historical anarchism with no use in the 21st century!.
I don't know why the BOT's even go to the committee meetings, just as well boycott the whole thing & tell them to fuck off.
alan - I answered your question already, i told you in the very next post, under your comment.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“sovereignty dispute”??
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SELF-DETERMINATION........Theres NO dispute!! Simplez!
@60 3 mile posts have been found bearing the Carvetti sign.Brougham (nr Penrith) / Temple Sowerby. There are several stone circles around the area (as there are all around the British Isles). The books say the capital was Carlisle (I think Carlisle was basically Roman) but there is an 'Old Carlisle' about 11 miles away which has never been excavated.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's strange though...Argentina wants to question Britains commitment to self-determination...LOLOLOLOL.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly how many countries has Britain recognised all forms of self-determination, and been one of the first countries to do so.
For example, there is a country where the current population massacred the indigenous people of half their land in the 16-17th centuries, and massacred the other half in the 1880s, but still Britain supports the self-determination of this implanted people.
Australia, Canada, India, Pakistan, Kosovo, south Sudan, French Polynesia, SELF DETERMINATION.
The Chagos Islanders...
Option 1: leave them on the islands with no work or fresh water to probably die
Option 2: pay them very generous resettlement, and when this is stolen by the Mauritius Government, pay it again, even agreeing it is full and final settlement, but when they want more/relocation/British citizenship/return to the islands...entertain their whims.
Even the European court says there is no case to answer. Badly played by the Wilson Government in 1960-70s, but no longer any case to answer.
#65
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have just been speaking to my “oracle” . The stone circles would predate any Roman milestones by thousands of years.
As to which tribe held which land is open to conjecture.
Not my views as I know next to nothing on this subject but I know someone who does.
@63 Vestige - Just Checked - No you didn't. Just your usual ramblings. Just checked the definition - troll - One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument - hmm? - if the cap fits - never mind as I said in a previous post, I hope Argentina never gives up its claim(???) to the Falklands. I like a good laugh. Your troops were confused in '82, thought they were going to Malvinas and ended up in Falklands. Asked the Falkland Islanders where the Malvinas were???
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@67
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think he was saying the Roman milestones named the Carvetii
46vestige of thinking
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are the Peronists so afraid of Bi-lateral talks between The Falklanders and Arg????
After all, according to Vestige, half of them come recently from England.
There, Think, “corrected” for you!
:-)
@67 and @69 Yes I was, sorry.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have some very good stone circles up/down here - Long Meg (which I am told is the 2nd biggest) and Castlerigg which is the best situated - in the Lakes near Keswick.
“”“”“”“”“”The remit of the Decolonialization Committee, surely, is to determine the status of “colonialization” - not to determine whether the sovereignty of the Falklands Islands archipelago is either Argentine or British. It seems to me that these are two very different subjects.“”“”“”“”“”“
Jun 18th, 2013 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The C24 is confused as to what it is supposed to do: so much so that the head of the UN had to rather forcefully remind them of their duty.
As they've achieved absolutely nothing in 30 years vis a vis the Falklands this year is not likely to see any changes...and a repeated forgetfullness of their actual creation is, once agian, likely to ensure - resulting in some horridly pro-LATAM piece of nonsense that has nothing at all to do with C24 duties and a lot to do with pandering to LATAM public ideals of ”brotherhood“.
Largely fuelled by yet more made-up ”evidence” from the Tinpot Timmerman Show et al.
Sovereignty, as you have determined, is completely outside of their remit - it wont stop them thinking it isnt though.
All in all this annual Argentine parade of incompetents and idiots provides an annual giggle-fest whilst resulting in precisely naff-all change.
As intended. ;-)
Are they bringing Alejandro Quisling BETTS and the gt, gt, gt gt, gt Grandson of whats is face? VERNET, with them again. After CFK's last speech to them, I would think they have also included an eminent Argentine Ornothologist in their team. It is as well to be prepared, you never know, the chair might want them to clear up some ambiguities about migrating Argentine birds!
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Narp - its squid this year, then various marine invertebrates the following year.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After that Think is sponsoring sea-lettuce as the “new proof its ours!” for that year.
You have to admit though, that the stupid Junta, supported by the Peronistas did the Islanders a major favour when they invaded.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Up to that point the Islanders were to all intents being sold down the river by the UK government without them even being consulted, but that all changed when Baroness Thatcher gave them all a kick in the balls that no-one thought was possible.
Since then of course it will be IMPOSSIBLE for any UK government to try the same trick again even if they wanted to because it would be the ticket out of politics for a long, long time/
Not only that, look at the infrastructure on the islands and the military garrison posted there for training purposes but more than capable with dealing with the present threat.
Carping and winging by TMBOA whilst annoying, and I blame Boggle-eyed Nestor for letting his bitch off the leash for that, is simply that: they have not a hope in argieland (so much more believable than Hell) of ever doing anything about it.
Oh dear, never mind.
55 alan (#)
Jun 18th, 2013 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@46 Vestige. Still waiting to your definition of a 'trolol from a previous post.'
Me: I swear I already responded, go check if you dont believe.
68 alan (#)
@63 Vestige - Just Checked - No you didn't. Just your usual ramblings. Just checked the definition - troll One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption.
loooooooooooooooooooooool
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRMBxnxWiNQ
@75 The UK government sent the charmless Nicholas Ridley over twice to try and win them over.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He got told where to go in short order.
As you say, any UK government which negotiates sovereignty without the consent of the islanders is going to have their arse handed to them on a plate in short order by the UK electorate. It will be the longest political suicide note.
@76
Jun 18th, 2013 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't know what I was expecting when I followed that link........but certainly not that......very funny!
@49Think,
Jun 18th, 2013 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Partly true & partly assumptions on your part. And of course some of your lies.
However, dear trouble-making Think, our children's father is at least a 7th generation Falklander.
By your own admission, you are only a first generation Argentine, with your parents emigrating from Scandinavia.
You shouldn't throw stones, dahling, when you live in a glass house.
@44 Vestige,
What business is it of yours where we originally came from?
Doubt if your ancestors are native to the land they stole(Argentina).
Think is talking to his socks again - another gratuitous misogynist ramble about Isolde.
Jun 18th, 2013 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dare we say another wasted journey to New york
Jun 18th, 2013 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@81
Jun 18th, 2013 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not if you like a good laugh or want to watch some so called diplomats shooting themselves in the foot.
Comment removed by the editor.
Jun 19th, 2013 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I find it quite funny that people assume the Falkland Islanders are due less rights due to the fact they are a community of immigrants. Which describes all the countries of the Americas and many others including mine.
Jun 19th, 2013 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 025% of my country's population was born in another country. Another 25% have at least one parent who is an immigrant. Therefore 50% of the population of Australia.
I'm a 3rd generation Aussie on one branch of my family tree, but 7th on another and just plain unknown on others.
So where should a fascist draw the line in their desire for racial purity. Or their desire in “community” purity.
The FIG can do what it likes with regards to emigration. If it wants to triple its population in the next 20 years or even the next 5 then it can. If it then grants them the rights to live there permanently then that is its perogative.
The FIG and the UK government do not operate under some jus sanguine but jus soli, just like Argentina does. If you move there and live there and become part of the community then you have the right to call yourself a Falkland Islander just as immigrants to Argentina are able and allowed to call themselves Argentine.
Though considering Argentina is suffering from a mass emigration and not immigration at the moment, there are fewer and fewer people who wish to call themselves Argentine.
Argentina is estimated to have lost at least 200,000 people to emigration in the past 5 years. Compare this to Australia's estimated gain of over 1.2 million immigrants (including many Argentines).
Hopefully the countries these ex-Argentines settle in do not follow the ideals of Vestige or Think in denying them rights.
@49Think
Jun 19th, 2013 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 05-1 :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
http://imborrableboca.blogspot.com/2008/12/boca-primero-y-river-ltimo.html
@84. Rubbish
Jun 19th, 2013 - 04:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are AUSTRALIAN. The islanders, are BRITISH. All 1500 of them. Plus the 1500 military troops that Britain stations there.
So its a COLONY. A heavy militarised one at that. Not an independent country, like yours is.
When Argentina sent a few scientists to set up a camp in S. Georgia (uninhabited) they were expelled by the British so don't come in here lecturing about jus sanguine or comparing the Australian case to the Malvinas.
Argentina protested the British take over of these islands back in the day and Britain ignored it.
I ask once again..WHEN is Mercopress going to STOP printing all the shite that Timerman spews forth on a daily basis and stick to just the facts?..Then again I guess we all need a laugh to brighten up our day..!
Jun 19th, 2013 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@86 Troneas
Jun 19th, 2013 - 05:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0”When Argentina sent a few scientists to set up a camp in S. Georgia (uninhabited) they were expelled by the British so don't come in here lecturing about jus sanguine or comparing the Australian case to the Malvinas.”
REALLY
So these 'few scientists' just happened to be armed troops who fired on the British troops when they arrived.
An Argentine scrap metal merchant had permission to dismantle an old whaling station there but Argentina, true to form, did not want to 'play by the rules' and tried to set up a military outpost there.
Additionally Britain warned the United Provinces prior to Vernet's departure that the Falklands were British.
Please get all your facts correct before posting the RG's untruthful propaganda.
And another thing .....
Jun 19th, 2013 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no denying that Arjuntina breached resolution 2065 by invading in 1982.
But surely Arjuntina's modification to its Constitution in the 1990s in order to stipulate only one possible outcome to the negotiations recommended by resolution 2065 has also invalidated the resolution? This one possible outcome is not, after all, what the UNGA was being asked to vote on 30 years before, while it was certainly not the UN's intention to give Arjuntina carte blanche for whatever Arjuntina might like to decide some decades later.
Surely, therefore, if it's to claim UN support, Arjuntina needs a new resolution?
This should be no problem if, as we're supposed to believe, the whole world supports Arjuntina. Heck, they might even think about trying the ICJ while they're at it.
@86 Troneas,
Jun 19th, 2013 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who gave your silly country permission to “send a few scientists” to the British territory of South Georgia?
And as Biguggy says, why did they bring uninvited Argentine soldiers with them?
You thought that you could just do as you liked & usurp British territory.
Then you don't like it when you are defeated & expelled.
You are a nation of latin fragile-egoed thieves. Bullies, who want to ride roughshod over anyone to get what they want.
News for you, bucko. Try it again & see just what happens to you.
@89 Hans
Jun 19th, 2013 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Surely, therefore, if it's to claim UN support, Arjuntina needs a new resolution?”
Totally agree. However it seems that UNGA Resolution 67/134 knocks quite a hole in the RG stance:
“To continue to examine the political, economic and social situation in the Non-Self-Governing Territories, and to recommend, as appropriate, to the General Assembly the most suitable steps to be taken to enable the populations of those Territories to exercise their right to self-determination, including independence, in accordance with the relevant resolutions on decolonization, including resolutions on specific Territories;”
Full Resolution available here:
http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/67/134
Troneas
Jun 19th, 2013 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0So what the Islanders can either identify as Falkland Islander or British or both.
Who are you to tell them how they should identify themselves?
And so what if the Falkland Islanders are a colony. Argentina was once a colony and fought a war for independence. Australia was once a colony and voted for independence.
Who are you to tell someone when they should become independent?
As for your woefully ignorant knowledge about the history of the Falklands and South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands, you made yourself look like a complete and utter fool.
Hear hear, Anglotino.
Jun 19th, 2013 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Troneas.
Jun 19th, 2013 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine scientific team as you call it were led by an officer called Astiz, better known to you has the angel of death. Pray tell, what branch of science covers, kidnap, torture and murder? Which is what I believe was this particular Argentine heroes field of speciality.
Oh and the islands were not uninhibited as every sane minded person knows. There was a British research station based on the island, a real one!
@94 - RC
Jun 19th, 2013 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed. The British scientific team was rescued by the Endeavour, weren't they? Prior to it's game of cat and mouse with the Argentine navy.
It's surprising that the Argentine airforce or navy were unable to spot this great big orange ship in the middle of the blue and white of the antarctic. Maybe they were always pointed in the wrong direction.
What is even more surprising, even though they wanted to attack the enemy, they could not do so. Because in the immortal words of their captain, “the rules of engagement prevent me from doing so.”
Jun 19th, 2013 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tronreas - I don't know you but I regret to say that you appear to be just another brainwashed troll. From your above remarks you clearly have no idea of the real history of the Falklands archipelago.
Jun 19th, 2013 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Before coming here and committing yourself to the lies, fairy stories and myths of the Argentine get some real knowledge of the true facts - read Pascoe and Pepper and the true history.
Has the UN a complaints process so that the UK/Falklands can complain about Argentina's intrusion/collusion with the UN C24???
Jun 19th, 2013 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@86 You're as thick as the rest. As of 2012, there are 2,932 Falkland Islanders. Twice as many as you “suggest”. There may be 1,500 military troops. Could you clarify what other sort of “troops” there are? But then, they wouldn't be there but for YOU. Tell us, isn't Entre Rios, for example, a republic? But, since all the inhabitants are argies, doesn't that make it a COLONY? Where's the First Army Division based? Is it Entre Rios or Buenos Aires. Doesn't that make it highly militarised? Just correct this comment ”When Argentina sent a few scientists to set up a camp in S. Georgia (uninhabited) they were expelled by the British“ That should read ”When argieland sent a bunch of special forces posing as scrap metal merchants to set up a camp in S. Georgia (British territory since 1775) they were kicked off.“ Just so you're aware. If there's a next time, they won't be kicked off. They'll be shot. Dead!
Jun 19th, 2013 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Argentina protested the British take over of these islands back in the day and Britain ignored it.“ No, we didn't. We told argieland to stop dreaming and sod off. The letters are dated through 1843/44. Postal service was terrible!
Does something occur to you, feckwit? Anything that you, or your fellow Campora feckwits, come out with, we can destroy. We can also show that every one of you would have trouble achieving the status of ”dimwit“. Don't make any mistake, feckwit. The Falkland Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands are BRITISH territory. In time, when the Islanders are ready, the Falkland Islands will become INDEPENDENT. Probably with a defence treaty with the UK. That means that British troops will NEVER go away. But a constant threat is never acceptable. What could Britain doo to ”remove“ the threat. Permanently. Do you think you ought to consider the UK's military ”capabilities”? When a bee or wasp gets sufficiently irritating, what do you do? You swat it. And, once swatted and squashed flat, who misses it?
RG numpty's name me one of the countries or islands listed as BOT's that DON'T want to remain a BOT which is more to the point. THEY ARE HAPPY, the day they aren't, all they need to do is ask. My point the only people not happy with these places being BOT's is rgenfookinweener, but heyho you don't give a fuck what the people of these BOTS want do you? As long as you get what you want, well I've news for you and it's all FOOKIN BAD. Why aren't you gobbing off about France's, US ,and Holland's overseas territories, that's right you conveniently forget about them it's only Britain that has overseas territories eh? PRICKS. If there was no oil, or massive reserves of fish you wouldn't give a fuck!! Can't you see it numbnuts these people like being under the umbrella of Britain, France US etc it gives them a security that they will not be BULLIED by a so called neighbour. Why do you think their are so many countries in the Commonwealth, I'll tell you because they welcome the trade and security offered by other countries in the commonwealth, same as your supposed Mercosaur, difference being we will stick up for Commonwealth countries whereas you will stab your mercosaur countries in the back. The only argument you have is the Chagos, which were handsomely rewarded for leaving Diego Garcia wherever the Mauritius government paid them I know not but they took them on and they went willingly. The islands were UNINHABITED till the French put slave labour on them which makes them Implanted people (RING A BELL) the FRENCH put lepers there. Diego Garcia became a colony of the United Kingdom after the Napoleonic wars as part of the Treaty of Paris (1814), long before the pariah state of rgenweener existed, so fook off with your pish
Jun 19th, 2013 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's Ethnic groups:
Jun 20th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0white (mostly Spanish and Italian) 97%, mestizo (mixed white and Amerindian ancestry), Amerindian, or other non-white groups 3%
Now that's an implanted population!
@86
Jun 23rd, 2013 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”When Argentina sent a few scientists to set up a camp in S. Georgia (uninhabited) they were expelled by the British so don't come in here lecturing about jus sanguine or comparing the Australian case to the Malvinas. ”
So their leader Astiz was a scientist?
His experiments involving torturing/murdering people including Argentine nationals was science?
If Argentina's scientists consist of psychopaths like Astiz, that would explain why Argentina is continuing to descend into meltdown.
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