US citizenship: a weapon for the government? Is this spy a hero or criminal? A petition demanding the Obama administration pardon Snowden has collected over 120,000 digital signatures, way above the threshold where the White House should issue a response. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThis man is a ferkin idiot!
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0He thinks we are ferkin idiots too.
He works for an intelligence agency, he betrays it's classified secrets and then appeals to us for sympathy because his right are being infringed for doing it.
Did I say idiot? Sorry, that should be DERANGED!
What did he think was going to happen? A nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize?
He thought he could get away with it, like most criminals who do stupid things and regret them later.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Eddie, would you like a cross to drag along behind you with that little self-serving statement?
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rand Paul would have considered it an honor to be the recipient of your information. Had Romney won in November, I'm sure Al Franken would be singing a very different tune. And you would have had whistleblower protection even in this administration which doesn't seem warm and fuzzy with its earlier promises on the subject.
But it wan't about getting the truth out, was it? It was about you. Enjoy exile. You've earned it.
It was Socrates that said, The unexamined life is not worth living. And, thanks to Snowden, Americans know that there is a government agency charged with the examination of their lives and so make them worth living.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you will find that the average american is more concerned with those same services preventing another 9/11.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What so mind blowingly suprising about this story anyway?
Spies playing dirty!!!!!!!
Whooppee shit! that never happened before, MUCH!!!!! as if that is something new.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment258286: Well, I can certainly see how spying on the enemy, AKA the American People, can prevent another 9/11.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was Benjamin Franklin who said, Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.
Ed Snowden needs to learn a bit of law. Look at what he says could be compared with a soldier not following an order he pledged to follow when he was given top secret clearance. Yes, Ed. And when you're in the US military you are OBLIGED to follow all lawful orders. You can read about it here: http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anything unlawful about the contract you signed? Of course not. Loads of people sign such contracts and know that it means they have to keep schtum. Your daddy says you haven't betrayed the American people. Oh yes you have. An organ of your government was doing what all intelligence agencies do. They gather intelligence in order to help the government make the right decisions in order to protect its people. Now, as far as the United States is concerned, you've put all that at risk. What you should have done, if you found it morally objectionable, was to go to your boss and say so. Before you examined too much of it. Get yourself moved to some other type of work. Or quit. And what gives you the right to decide on behalf of 316 million people? People are elected for that purpose.
Looks like you're running out of boltholes. Next stop Iceland?
Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame, Mr Snowden.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enjoy spending the next 50 years doing a 'Tom Hanks' in Moscow airport. Like your 'hero' Assange, you've incarcerated yourself.
That's just so funny...LOL
@6
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The old Benjamin Franklin quote - again taken out of context!
@9 IIRC, the quote was about living dangerously on the frontier...
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hepetatia.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really, just how many terrorist attacks in the past decade have originated outside the continental US or Europe, any idea?
Just where do you think the 9/11 attackers got their flying training from?
Ever heard heard of the terms home Grown or radicalised.
If it legal for a Government to know what we do, then surely it is legal for us to know what the Government does!
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Strange that you all demonise people that make this possible.
ON A LIGHTER [CARRY ON LAUGHING ]
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK is reputed to be furious that the brits and American may have been spying in and around her bedroom,
And is seriously considering offering Edward Snowden's asylum
Just as a precaution in case he spills the beans, as one says lolol…..
@12 No, it isn't. Let's examine your proposal. How about this? Imagine someone from India, now living in Britain, incapable or unwilling to learn to speak, read or write English, is given access to all government information. Good idea? Now replace the Indian in Britain with an argie living in argieland. Now work your way through the argie government story about 1833. Over time, it's changed. Originally, the entire argie population was confronted with armed forces and were forcibly ejected from the Islands. Then the armed forces disappeared. Then forcibly ejected changed to expelled. Then the population was changed to authorities. Except that there were no authorities because the only individual that could have been described as being an authority, Major Esteban Mestivier, was murdered by his troops on arrival in the Islands.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Follow this through. As you can see, argie governments lie. If you follow this site for a while, you will see that argies lie. Or shall we call it being economical with the truth. And these are the sort of people you want to trust with government secrets? I wouldn't trust them with directions to a shitpit. But, on a wider basis, intelligence needs to be placed in context. Anyone think Snowden had the whole picture? Of course not. He was just a little cog. And he saw an opportunity to make himself look important. And now Correa is calling him a spy and washing his hands of him. What a dumb cluck!
Apparently at the latest count he has applied for asylum in 15 countries, the latest being Russia itself. One thinks his life there would be more Philby than Maclean
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Snowden shows contempt and turns his back on the American system of law - now he has had his passport revoked to prevent flight from justice and taking his chance in court.
Jul 02nd, 2013 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He chose to leave his life and family - AND he can still apply for asylum, IF another Ecuador grants him Travel Papers.
Didn't think this one through.
Doh!
:-)
I signed the petition. And Rand Paul's got this one.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment258304: The quote come from a book, published by Franklin, on the subject of the constitutional history of PA. Given Franklin's profession and life this is not surprising. What would be surprising would be if Franklin had uttered the quote while wandering aimlessly around the frontier.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 03:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm concerned that I have to explain this point of American History to you. Did you not cover this during your education?
America can only grant asylum in America.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Those admitted for Asylum in America are those seeking the friendship of America, and American Justice - Snowden is running away from the US Justice system.
If Mr Snowden had any decent secrets to reveal, Russia would keep him. His crime has been to embarrass a weak and incompetent US President.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hep C.......understanding history is more than making historical quotes and reciting dates, it is understand the historical events that lead to actions to unfold into today's developments.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you suppose Franklin made that statement with suicide bombers in mind?
What do you think he would make of al qaeda?
If you were a government leader, what would you do to preotect you citizens from radicial muslims that believe infidels should convert or die?
Negotiate?
Capitulate?
Convert?
How would you proactively prevent future attacks......recede from the world?
snowden is a hypocrit that believes as a wanted man accused of committing serious crimes he pledged against, the USA should give him a free pass to get away. In the espionage business, it does not work that way. snowden will end up in a country where he will get to spend the rest of his life thinking about his former freedoms versus the ones he will not have. All his decision based on what HE thinks is right.
Hep C isn't there a vaccine for you?
He is as bad as that other traitor Bradley whatever his last name is!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0He claims his motives for joining the NSA was to expose their operations.
Well in my book that is subversion, and at a time of war, which is what the fight against these terrorist is, that is treason.
Men and women on both sides of the Atlantic are giving their lives on a daily basis to keep their loved ones safe from further attack and these two set themselves up has their nations moral guardians. Let the guys in the field have them, they will know how to deal with them. With exemplary justice is my guess?
12#
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you can now gather,you can ignore the indoctrinated idiots that post here.
They are only an exception if they're northern hemisphere and smart.Most are dumb followers of capitalist stooges.
On the subject of capitalist stooges, who is following the story on the issue of the Cedines??
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is extremely sad to see what is happening to the USA. Everytime I return I see how much more of a Police State this place has become. People here claiming that the government is protecting us from terrorists and this and that is just pathetic. If the idea of taking away some freedom to save lives is justified, then we should ban cars, alcohol, cigarretts, fatty foods, sugary drinks, dangerous sports, etc etc etc. Of course it would be easier for the government to protect us if they have total power to do as they please such as knocking down someones front door or strip searching people as they please. But is it worth it? Less people have died from terrorist in this countries history than die every year from car accidents, so which is more dangerous? Which should we concentrate on?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look, this may be being done with the best of intentions, but it will be abused. Power always abuses and it always corrupts even the most pure souls. One day these powers will be used against those that it was meant to protect.
This will only help to create a dictatorship in the future. And that dictatorship will be worst than any terrorist you have ever heard of. Really sad to hear these comments on here.
I am with Hepatia, A_Voice, BAMF and Yuleno (minus the insults) on this matter.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Snowdon has done us all a favor. It doesn't matter if we suspected this is what the NSA did or if we like him. He has provided evidence that should concern everyone.
Just because a security agency says that it needs to do X to protect its citizens doesn't mean that the citizens have to accept X. What should (and will) concern all right thinking Americans is that Mr Clapper stood before congress and blatantly lied when asked if the NSA were doing this just 3 months ago.
The fact he lied should make it clear that the security services do not feel that they are answerable to the elected authorities - alarm bells should be ringing.
The good news is that the secret services are as incompetent as ever, I mean how hard is it to keep an eye on a guy in a transit lounge?
He was not on the plane!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally I think it is a clever CIA plot to get a man on the inside of one of the Bolivarian Republics, damn clever!
#26
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OMG! a spook lied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MORE SO THAN THAT.......IT IS REALLY TRY.....SPIES SPY TO COLLECT INFORMATION!
What amazes me in this entiure story is that snowden actually made it through the farm.
Condorito....consider yourself lucky to live in a country that the evil in world cares little about so citizen protection is not an issue and you can use boy scouts as a national defense and do not have to be proactive. But the day will arrive when islamist extremists will see the catholics of SA as infidels in need of conversion or death. SA will not be able to do a damned thing to stop it either.......talking your way out will al qaeda all those extremists go no where. Practice this phrase:
ASTAGHFIRULLAH
26#
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have to agree with you,including on the insults,the most recent posts have been welcome on the real issue,that of the response to Snowden affair.
Clearly the way other countries are responding tells me that-
a/the USA is not alone in this matter
b/other countries are being threaten with some form of repercussions
c/China is not alone in spying on it own people.
This is the consequence of the war on terror.A state of terror not democratic.
State of terror, not democratic.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What would you know about it?
Someone sets of a bomb in your country, killing your people and what do you do?
Sack the judge investigating it, cancel the Interpol arrest warrants and conclude a treaty with the people responsible.
Well excuse us if we prefer to fight back.
A. True other countries have been subjected to terrorist attacks.
B. where is your evidence for that? You have none.
C. True, yours does too and your a fool if you think they do not. Where do you keep your $US?
28 Poppy
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you are fine with their activity then I am happy for you. But I am surprised that you are ok with Mr Clapper lying to Congress. Does that really not bother you?
Of course spies spy, but if they are questioned before Congress is that not the point at which they come clean?
Right thinking US citizens like Ayayay (@17) will be signing up.
Even the Tea Party are upset!
29 Yuleno
I imagine the Chinese will be very amused by the whole issue. It removes the West from the moral high ground.
I think this case will be pivotal in the US and the US public and civil liberties groups will start pushing back the powers given to the security services in the the name of the war on terror.
Apparently there is no such thing as a secret,
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The minute you tell someone anyone, the secret is out,
The whole point being not to tell no one, hence Secret. lol
.
@23 And you're a follower of what? A corrupt president who has stolen at least US$16 million? A corrupt president that steals companies in breach of your state's own constitution. A corrupt president who lies every time she opens her mouth. A corrupt president that breaches the UN Charter every day. A corrupt president that employs bands of thugs. A corrupt president that will do anything to avoid paying debts. A corrupt president who doesn't mind how many of her people are being poisoned by toxic chemicals because she's being paid. A corrupt president determined to get control of the judiciary so she and her minions can't be prosecuted. Who's the stooge, dummy? Still, you've been brainwashed since birth. Understanding reality and truth is beyond you.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25 Poor child. I do hate moralists. What right do YOU have to decide? Will you change your mind as a wing of the aircraft you are travelling in falls away. Detached by a bomb. Are your freedom and rights worth more than your life? The life of your spouse? The lives of your children? And not just aircraft. Trains, buses, cars, boats, buildings.
@29 Perhaps you should take a leaf out of the UK's book. The primary duty of every UK government is defence of the realm. Not a principle that latinos understand!
@31 Not if it's public! Do you have a problem with that? Then you are truly thick. A public hearing? Never mind, we'll tell the whole world everything. Hang on a minute, there's a question you forgot to ask. I'll give you the answer anyway. Perhaps the US civil liberties groups will have to understand that they can no longer depend on isolationism. Their mindset is definitely that of the 20s and 30s of the last century. When will they understand that the USA and UK, and other countries, are at war. Not conventional war. Clandestine, subversive war. A war in which YOU could become a casualty tomorrow. The war zone is the world. Like it or not, YOU are on the front line!
@30 RC
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well excuse us if we prefer to fight back.
Ha ha - same as Falklands '82 - unfair that the Brits fought back
Thank you Condorito,
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The two most important topics of this issue seem to be ignored by most of the post of the readers:
1) Has any Goverment the right so spy regular citizens with out any legal authorization? Can a private company (hired by the Government) chase and follow the movements of any of us? And the movement of all of us? Where are our rights? What about our privacy?
2) Has any country the right to deny the usage of its air space for any real or alledged reason?
I would like to read comments about these topics taking into account that most of you are british people, a country where rights are respected and internalized in the social culture.
Otherwise we wil be focused on Evo Morales that honestly I don't care a s...
@35
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Can a private company (hired by the Government) chase and follow the movements of any of us? And the movement of all of us? Where are our rights? What about our privacy?”
Raytheon US Defence company springs to mind with the RIOT software.....so what's new?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/feb/10/raytheon-software-tracks-online-video
@36
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not saying it's new. I'm asking whether they have the right or not. I'm asking whether it is correct and ethic or it is not. Do they?
They can track you, all of us, alone or together in groups. On account of what?
Would you like that I spy and track you? Your family? Your fiance? Your girlfriend? Your kids?
This guy mentioned he had the option to freely decide whom he would spy based on the most arbitrary reasons that could be private reasons.
By doing this....Would the World, your Country, your life, your every day life be safer? Were these actions able to stop the Boston bombing?
@37 pgerman
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are making the same mistake than many people make. You are letting your humanity govern your head.
There is no place for ethics in the fight against terrorism.
@37
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it's all a con by the US playing the terror card to take it one step closer to a totalitarian state.
If terrorist organisations are stupid enough to use smart phones and traceable IP addresses they deserve to be caught.
Meanwhile they have Carte Blanche to do what they want.......
In the words of Agent Simmons........You see this? This is a Do whatever I want and get away with it Badge
Agent who?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agent Simmons, surely you have heard of him?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nope!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://api.ning.com/files/xDn3MLRt84sVvivE8Vq*KQtbzj-KDsQjnQHuA6zVAxbFEtrcFAeDWNUp5UC8EQeyD9xKS0tIYCNWK*Ais3d0V6SkxXL649wf/john_turturro_headshot.jpg&imgrefurl=http://my.spill.hollywood.com/profiles/blogs/transformers-revenge-of-the-27&h=918&w=1386&sz=41&tbnid=i1IIhQTFYXTnZM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=136&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dagent%2Bsimmons%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=agent+simmons&usg=__b0jIGbp7q7USSprOGVqmy5yQETQ=&docid=R4Tn2Ytczt7k3M&sa=X&ei=epDUUfDkLuyo0wXRh4CIAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQ9QEwAg&dur=589
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-))))))
I could eventually use these extraordinary advantage to spy a girl I like, a competitor at my job or to take advantage doing businesses. This is what this guy is saying.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know what?
I noticed that most of the people who once lived in countries where rights were not fully respected or were simply tyrannies are more against these kind of things from those who always lived in countries with rights respected. It must have been because we learnt to value the civil rights.
I'm not pretty sure. I don't want to offend you. I'm just guessing.
@21 Hi Condy! I'm centrist :) But yeah the biggest banner for Ex Snowden has GOT to e our libertarian Republicans like Senators Rand and Ron Paul.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment258431: Franklin made the comment with the existential security of the state in mind.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 04:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Franklin was a signer of Declaration of Independence pursuant to a revolution against a cruel and arbitrary foreign oppressor. Had he been caught he would have come to a very unpleasant end. Given the choice between liberty and death, and knowing the risks, Franklin chose liberty. And this was the case for many Americans of that time. I think that Franklin, and all those other Americans, would make a similar choice today. It is in this context that we should judge the NSA's spying on citizens.
33#
Jul 04th, 2013 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conkerer you epitomise the idiotic remarks of a brainwashed empirist.
What needs to be highlighted is not only the ability to be spied on at any time but also retrospectively.An idiot like you does not see a problem with that.But you would have been the first to condemn big brother states eg Stalinist USSR.
We have to wait 30years for information from the British gvt.Why is that when they spy on others.Dont think the UK is exempt.Hope the Dont spy on your queen( I should say that they keep it to themselves) No doubt the yanks and chinese will( if they can )
yulena.....I really am disappointed in the troll that assumed the yulena ID. The one from 2012 could at least type comprehensive English. Off how you call Conqueror an idiot when you bleat out statements like brainwashed empirist. Communism is dead but you little latam flunkies will try it anyway.....why? SO you can have a few in power to blatantly steal from the people and keep the poor poor and provide no opportunities. No one in the free world is brainwashed. We all know our systems are for from perfect but also know they are the best out there. No one in the real world respects anything from your south american schleps. Not even your leaders.......did you see what happened to your cocaine leader evil morales? You are all a joke.....yulena........go back into the asshole you call a home and stick to the lice and nits you call family.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Asylum is for people who cannot return to their own country because the will be persecuted, not for those who cannot return to their own country because they will be prosecuted.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bingo RICO.....snowden would never have been heard of if he did not break the law.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment258991: But most government persecution is effected using the law. For instance, consider the late, but not lamented, Soviet Union.
Jul 09th, 2013 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The US national intelligence director, Mr Clapper, declared under oath before congress (which is a crime) that the NSA did not undertake the activity that Snowden claims they are involved in.
Jul 09th, 2013 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the charges against Snowden will be what? Making stuff up?
51
Yes, it is.
#51 Hep......such as suing a newspaper for 40 million us dollars when they write a critical article about the government?
Jul 09th, 2013 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment260014: Yes, exactly.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 01:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hep.....like the way ecuador persecutes the media.......
Jul 10th, 2013 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment260091: Yes, I understood your reference.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So then you agree that equador persecutes journalists that disagree with correa and the government?
Jul 10th, 2013 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment260155: I agree that the Ecuadorian government has persecuted journalist. Whether is was because of criticism I cannot say.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But the incident that you refer to did not rely on any legislation passed by a recent congress. Rather it relied on some very old law, probably inherited from Spain. What the Ecuadorian Congress has not done is repeal the criminal provisions of the defamation law.
As a general principle I oppose all defamation law including that of the US.
Several laws where recently (past several years) changed to repress more of the media.....even constitutional changes as well.....all to consolidate power....dictocracy.....elected dictators.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment260281: Which legislation are you refering to? Which consitutional changes are you refering to.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps you should read about the 2008 constitutional changes.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment260335: So, which of those changes contribute to media repression?
Jul 11th, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Research if you do not know.......or get a secretary if you are that incompetent. Hep C.......have you been vaccinated yet?
Jul 11th, 2013 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/02/unedited-full-version-of-edward-snowden-statement#comment260475: I was really interested in whether you knew what you were talking about. It appears not.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A good source of information for you is Reporters Without Borders.
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