MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Give Us Your Real Dollars for Our Fake Dollars: Argentina Credit
President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner’s wish of being able to print dollars is coming true as the central bank begins issuing dollar-denominated certificates today that trade in pesos. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesOh God. Argentinean government policy.... the joke that just keeps giving and giving!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Poor KFC, if only she had a magic box producing free wealth her problems would be over. It is rather amusing watching morons who have absolutely no idea what they are doing trying to run a country.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Idiots get elected everywhere in the world!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0but in Argentina the weakness, politicization and corruption of the civil service fails to correct their mistakes .
So, according to history, how long is it til Argentina crashes and defaults again? New pseudo currency always comes out shortly before another crash/default in Argentina, right? So does this give us a time frame/ETA of implosion?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Patacones?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0If properly managed , the whole of Argentina would be a machine for printing dollars . If properly managed .
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina has a history of resorting to funny money or emergency bonds as a substitute for cash in times of financial crisis, such as Patacones and Lecops.”
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d4612bf8-e194-11e2-b796-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2Xy8zBiHa
The is quite outrageous. The Argentinian economy is in free-fall. The governments solution: Give us your hard earned foreign currency. Can't imagine the Trolls will have much to say about this except to tell how much worse it is in Turkey or Ireland say. Seriously the Argentinian Government steals an oil company yet is now producing less oil. It is unable to pay the Foreign debts it owes. So orders the people to hand over their foreign currency. The judiciary should declare such measures illegal. Given The Argentinian history of failing to pay it's debts, hyperinflation and revaluation of the peso. Would you trust the government with your hard earned money? Given the government issued savings Bond maturing in 2016 will earn 4% interest pa, compared to an annual inflation rate of 20%+ Me neither.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0“People will probably go running to exchange them for dollars as soon as they can so the effect on reserves will be ephemeral.”
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is nothing short of delusional if he thinks this is going to happen. 7.2 pesos cambio rate: in other words much the same as the Blue dollar.
No wonder Pistol Pete Moreno wanted the blue stopped in it's tracks and his statement that “you can make more money with the pesos” now makes sense.
Ah well! Another step to disaster and financial meltdown but it is amazing how The Dark Country keeps straggling one: must be in league with the Devil, oh I just remembered there is NO Devil!
One thing is for certain, KFC & Co will not be setting an example by exchanging the $US they hold in their accounts, at home or anywhere else. Then again they don't have to, do they? they run the entire crazy place! One rule for them, one for the others and the others are happy to be shafted again and again and again.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who predicted the return of Patacones? Who was it? Hmm
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I hope they people buying these bonds know they'll never get U$ back.
My guess most of the people buying them are the narcos that are working for the Ks.
@Mastershake
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me correct you. Argentina is on “default” status since year 2002. The country left plenty of debts without being payed such as the debt with the Paris Clau or some pending bonds. So, technically, we cannot say that Argentina is going to declare another default.
In addition, as they never wanted to reach an agreement with the Paris Club or some bond holders the real magnitude of the international debt is imposible to be known. The figure informed by the Paris Club has never been recognized by the Argentine Government.
As I have already informed, the “real” Argentine reserves of the BCRA are not 40. billion dollars at all. The reserves, as any other one, are formed by assets. Some of these assest, bonds called LEBAC or NOBAC, “pases entre bancos”, etc, are useless to pay energy, to cancell old debts, to import raw material or to change pesos for dollars to small savers.
In the last “weekly official inform” of the BCRA you can see that the money (cash in dollars, I mean bank notes) are roughly 6 billion dollars. We could eventually add the mandatory reserve requirements (that is private money but can be change by unfriendly bonds) that are another 6 billion dollars.
So, CFK desperately needs cash money. That's the reason why she decided to launch this new bond. Let's see if she succeed.
A friend emailed from Buenos Aires yesterday. “What so you think of the Cedines?”, she asked. “We all think they are a load of shit. There is no way I am using that”. She also said the rumour in BsAs is that it will become the new currency.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When is the official currency of Argentina to be renamed 'The Malvinas'?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How about splits?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As in banana splits!
After 2 days still not one Cedin sold......what a surprise!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is that each provincial government including Capital Federal has legal right to investigate the source of funds of each purchase even though CFK says they can be anonymous
This is why there is no great rush to buy the bonds since nobody wants to be the first to get caught
I imagine that after a few days CFK , Boudou, Baez, & the other corruptos will start laundering their own money to try & kick start the operation.....the only problem is the people are on to them already!!!
$160 billion held by Argentines in bank accounts abroad.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tax authorieties in place.
Reprieve offered.
Time ultimatum issued.
It will work.
page bookmarked
names taken
smugness on standby
The U$160B is an estimate nobody really knows how much is held abroad and regardless of the amount, what is the reason people are holding it abroad?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Imminent devaluation
Fear of Confiscation
How does this bond answer either of those two issues?
Estimates are that the gov't will sell U$1.5B so how many tankers of LNG does this buy?
Enough to get to the elections
Then what?
“People will probably go running to exchange them for dollars as soon as they can“
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Once, the Argentine Govt. obtains these U.S. dollars, why wouldn't they then restrict people from exchanging the Cedins to get $U.S. back, especially if they have already put 30 measures in place to hold on to $U.S.?
What does the term ”Cedin“ stand for?
If an entity has an obligation to me in $U.S., why would I accept an Argentine ”Cedin“ certificate in payment of that obligation? Am I legally compelled to accept it?
Why would I rather pay in ”Cedins” than in $U.S.?
Cor that's lucky they had a $160 billion stashed away for a rainy day! Problem solved.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Next thing you know their alchemists will be transmuting lead into gold, just you wait and see, shale oil? Pahh! who needs that?
I suspect the law is for “friends” of CFKs government,etc. You only need a clean background to bring money in,..the source of the funds is not questioned. That person can be anyone.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17 Does that include CFK's ill-gotten gains?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21 Does that mean more bulging suitcases?
@19 “What does the term ”Cedin“ stand for?” -
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The answer is in the article - “CErtificate of Deposit for INvestment”
You are right. 6th paragraph
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“to trade their dollars for a certificate of deposit for investment, or Cedin,”
Thank you.
Good advertising slogan:
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CEDINS FOR CRETINS
LMAO
Look,
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If she and her government wants to fleece or steal from her own people,
That’s her problem,
If her people let her get away with it, its their problem
As long as it keeps her tiny corrupt mind of the Falklands,
then all is ok..
.
State sponsored legalisation of Monopoly money as far as I can see!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ask yourself this question. If you accumulated savings in a rock solid safe currency. Would you exchange it?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cedins, are those recognised as a negotiable currency?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought they were NHL hockey players.
@16 can't THINK why mate
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26 quite agree mate
mercopravda
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rosadapravda
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you imagine how messed up an economy is that the gov't must worry about the price of bread?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The currency crisis can not be held at bay for much longer.
why are CEdINs a thingagram in... ENGLISH?
Jul 04th, 2013 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@34 -
Jul 04th, 2013 - 07:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because the Spanish for “CErtificate of Deposit for INvestment” is “CErtificado de Depósito para la INversión” (or something like that - sorry, this is just an online translation, my Spanish is not that good)
So Vestige, how many of your dollars stashed away are you planning to exchange for Cedines? Considering the recent history of the Argentine economy any citizen seriously considering taking government bonds
Jul 04th, 2013 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0I suspect this doesn't help the economic situation
Jul 04th, 2013 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23177336
Can anyone tell me how much foreign currency Argentinians are allowed to own with being forced to exchange it?
And so far they have sold a total of $160,000. WOW...
Jul 04th, 2013 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think this article pretty much sums it up!
Jul 04th, 2013 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://qz.com/99501/meet-argentinas-new-pseudo-currency-the-dollar-denominated-cedin/
The money launderers and black market dealers in dollars are not going to give up what they have. The average citizen would be crazy to give up their dollars for what is in effect a gamble on the Argentine economy with worthless piece of government paper! How many times have there government tried to get the dollars out of the Argentine economy? How many times have they failed? So Vestige are you going to give up your dollars for this new wonder currency? I somehow doubt it.... So please do record my name as it is highly unlikely you will have anything to smugly crow about in the future! Look it is simple pay your debts as a nation! Then the international money market might actually trust you! Stop nationalising all your industries and then shoving La Campora appointees who haven't got the first clue about running them!
I would bet Crissy is a bit nervous over the price spike in oil.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They've already spent 99% of 2013 budget for fuel/fuel subsidies.
I am very surprised in the rapid depreciation of the gov't rate too! By next week it will be 5.5/1.
As I mentioned awhile ago, forced sale of grains or face confiscation.
Next it will be expropriation of underperforming farms
I wonder if Toby and Think will be working on one of the Farm collectives”? I know Yul is ecstatic. One more step to the gov't controlling everything.
@36 & 39 why would vestige worry he don't live there
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rather interesting to note how so many here blast Argentina's government for seeking to control the currency of it's population, while simultaneously praising their own government's actual control of their phone calls, emails, courrier, internet habits, broadcasts, and even driving habits if available.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course one will never get an explanation from the participants of this forum elucidating why one type of big brother (currency control) renders Argentina's government so “undignified and tinpot”, but another type of big brother, that of their own governments, does not render their governments as banana despots undermining the rights of their subjects.
@tedious Toby troll
Jul 05th, 2013 - 02:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ their own government's actual control of their phone calls, emails, courrier, internet habits, broadcasts, and even driving habits if available.”
Toby
“Control”? Ha ha ha , I don't think so, feeb!
Do you mean like “control” of your lives ??
CFK controls your Judiciary, the Press , your possession of US dollars, and restricts your travel outside of Argentina, while dictating that the Middle Class MUST hire the poor or be taxed etc, etc. etc.
So you refuse to answer the point raised. Why is wealth control more despotic than control of how much privacy you are entitled to?
Jul 05th, 2013 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you were truly honest about being a liberalist republican, you would admit both at least are equally indicative of a decadent government.
You see there is no difference. In order to survive, Argentina's government needs to control the wealth of its citizens. In order to survive , your governments are in need to control information.
Listening in on communications, is not controlling them or did I miss something here?
Jul 05th, 2013 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tedious
Jul 05th, 2013 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0“If you were truly honest about being a liberalist republican, you would admit both at least are equally indicative of a decadent government. ”
Please do not tell me to defend myself as your definition of a “republican” or a “liberalist”, you don't know hat I am either one, and I don't know what you are implying.
“...indicative of a decadent government” - thanks for that, at least you are admitting that your government is “decadent”. :-)
“You see there is no difference. In order to survive, Argentina's government needs to control the wealth of its citizens. In order to survive , your governments are in need to control information.”
Toby Tedium,
You are only trying to divert the discussion.
This article is about the desperate measures your government is going to, in order to survive and stay in power.
Interestingly, there is a strong undercurrent of irony to this article. That is the real story, here.
The country is trying to survive, but it really needs protection from itself.
The government is the country's own worst enemy - it needs to control the 'wealth' of the citizens, and extract even more wealth of the citizens to shore up the financial reserves, a problem CFK's government created by 'Nationalising' key industries, corruption at the highest levels, non-payment of debts leading to the destruction of credit and foreign investments.
The people will be bled dry, forced to trade their foreign currency for worthless notes.
Shortly afterwards, the economy will implode.
But, CFK and pals will survive - comfortably well - off.
Oh don't worry, I will no longer air out the dirty laundry of your country just because you have no courage to admit your country ever does wrong or maybe down the wrong path. I am past that now.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can call my country whatever you wish, listening to your privacy is a form of control whether you care to admit it here or not and everyone would agree that if I know what you talk and write about privately, I have power over you by having information about you to either coerce you, defeat you in argument by the element of surprise, or other. Your name calling is also childish, but I'll leave that up to you.
There are several doughnut holes to this story, lets remember that if articles as read in Mercopress three years ago were so accurate, then the country would have indeed collapse back in 2010. Yet...
“Unfortunately for me and for most Argentines, I don’t have a little machine that makes dollars,” she said in a November speech in Buenos Aires.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Have we checked, she is not the most honest person.
Well Moreno is going to confiscate the Wheat the farmers claim not to have. This should be interesting to watch.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can you imagine!
Wheat!
Bahahahaa
I told you this would happen last year.
Next it will be the “unproductive” farms
47
Jul 05th, 2013 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and Toby backs down - no argument.
:-D
49 yankeeboy
Jul 05th, 2013 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Next it will be the “unproductive” farms”
I think that is already to roll, Pistol Pete Moreno is just waiting to see the reaction by the Farmer's Union.
The farmers have not played this well. They need to stop all deliveries of all food products until the gov't meets their demands. Let BA starve and the people revolt.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can't understand why they're not playing that card yet.
BAD FAITH=MEDIOCRE ANALYSIS.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beyond the fact that detractors will always be necesary for any politic project, due to everybody have different ideas, and they have right to deffend them, beside, some of the critics made by detractors are relevant, however, being a detractor, don't justify the tipicall hypocrite and too partial analysis that are usually published in the press about argentina's situation.
Although i have said in different oportunities that mercopress is a serious website, if it's compared to clarin, la nación, or perfil, which are shamefully pathetic, however, in my opinion in many oportunities mercopress's headlines or some of it's reports, often ridicule c. f. k's words, or publish analysis which are too partial.
Inflation in argentina is an issue which is published all the time, not just in mercopress, but in many newspapers too, but what most them don't say, is what is the true origin of inflation, they just make too superfitial analysis.
I have explained in this forum in different oportunities the true reasons of inflation in the country, and i also said why it will take many years to solve it.
The speculation with dollars, is a remora that we have since the last dictatorship, when martinez de hoz eliminated all the restrictions for the acquisition of foreing currencies, in 1977 and sold the monetary sovereignty, he did it because neather him, nor all the rest of the criminals who ruled argentina in that moment wanted and industrial nation, they just wanted an economy based on financial services, which was convenient to all the richest sectors of the society which had supported the last coup d'etat.
Cristina is making now what all the rest of the governments should have done many years ago, in order dismantle all the remoras that we still have of neoliberalism, and continue with an industial project, which is actually what argentina needs. Anyway, there is a lot more to say about all this problematic.
CFK has pocketed all the money earmarked for replacing infrastructure, and 'taxed' the middle class and Investors, domestic and foreign, until industries are no longer viable.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0She has robbed the Pensions of ordinary Argentinians, supposedly to pay National Debt., which she has reneged on.
Where's the money gone??
Axel, I've said this before, you clearly have no concept of how an economy works.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is sad and you are one of the reasons your county has a currency crisis every 10 years.
I hope you've been taking my advice and stocked up on tradable commodities over the last year.
You are going to need them very soon to survive.
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