MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Interview with Dick Sawle, Falklands MLA
The holding of a self-determination referendum in the Falklands Islands in March this year attracted media attention all over the world. Once more, British democratic culture and the concept of self-determination clashed with government by decree and the use of force to impose a certain political system. Some weeks later, with the Islands out of the limelight but while tensions remain, Help Catalonia talked to Hon. Dick Sawle, one of the members of the local Legislative Assembly. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAn excellent news story, just the facts :) I really wana live in the falkland islands!.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And free Catalonia, its about time for some self-determination in the Iberian Peninsula.
(I really don't know why no Argentinian state, has thought about self-determination?, I mean BA's central government seems to spend most of its time messing up the federalized states that make up the country. Surely said state's could make a better go of it on there own?)
I determine your referendum to be illegal and meaningless.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All for say 'aye' .... Aye
All against say 'nae' .........
They 'ayes' have it by a majority. Democracy wins.
2. Yes democracy did win :) thank god the Falkland islanders are there to show Argentinean's how a modern democracy's works.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully Argentinians will move towards a modern democracy at some point!.
Don't tell me? you were picked up by mini bus, driven to the polling station, handed 50 Pesos and told what to vote for.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's how Argentine democracy works.
We have all seen the news report!
A good interview. No ramblings or rants, and MLA Sawle stuck to the facts. Tinman should take note.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is medication in short supply where you are?
internationally unrecognized. politically meaningless.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't tell me, the Irish again? Has anybody found that bloody official Irish statement yet? Or for that matter the Indian one?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0RG, he speak with forked tongue!!!
Nice interview and politically 100% correct. It is a pity that the Argentine keeps telling its people lies about the Falkland Islanders' right to self-determination. They fool no-one but the simpleminded and those deluded by years of propaganda.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is also a pity that the UN C24 nitwits have still not heeded Ban Ki-Moon's words of 2010 when he said,
'The World's 16 remaining territories that still do not govern themselves MUST have complete freedom in deciding their own future status,' Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon told a forum on decolonization.
(It's called self-determination).
http://www.speroforum.com/a/33140/Remaining-nonselfgoverning-territories-must-have-full-freedom-of-choice-Ban-says#.UdHcad5wz9B
and then last year Ban confirmed that UN resolution 2065 was also dead.
http://www.speroforum.com/a/33140/Remaining-nonselfgoverning-territories-must-have-full-freedom-of-choice-Ban-says#.UdHcad5wz9B
@2
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do keep this up. The very notion of an “illegal”, “meaningless” referendum both exposes and condemns you, and you are too dumb to realise it.
@2 Question: On what basis to you make your ridiculous claims?
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 reality check:
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine democracy in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zjyGwKTN9U
Thanks to our resident 'special' malvinista for highlighting the youtube channel.
Vestage is sounding even more desperate than usual on this thread: the interview must have really upset him.
@12 “Vestage is sounding even more desperate than usual on this thread: the interview must have really upset him.”
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing a fascist fears more than a free election is an one where world finds out about it.
@2
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I determine your referendum to be illegal and meaningless.
“ All for say 'aye' .... Aye
All against say 'nae' .........”
As you have just said this rather than supplied quotes it is meaningless.
That's like me saying as Ushuaia was settled by the British first (after of course the original inhabitants), that the UK should own Ushuaia= this is meaningless if the people of Ushuaia don't want to be British.
Also I have not quoted who agrees with this .
@7
“internationally unrecognized”
A bullsh1t statement- Canada and several countries recognise it, and also thanks to @9 BritBob:
'The World's 16 remaining territories that still do not govern themselves MUST have complete freedom in deciding their own future status,' Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon told a forum on decolonization.“
So Ban ki moon disagrees with you chey.
@13
”The only thing a fascist fears more than a free election is an one where world finds out about it.”
Nicely put-were do you wear your swastika Vestige?
@2 What would you know about democracy? Democracy doesn't include invading nearby territories and starting wars. Democracy doesn't include pushing people out of aircraft. Democracy doesn't include buying votes. Democracy doesn't include sending thugs and convicts out to intimidate. Democracy doesn't include the “president” stealing the country's money.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Recognised by those who matter. Not governments. People. Have you heard of something called “honesty”? Of those FALKLAND ISLANDERS eligible to vote, 92% did. Of those who voted 99.8% voted IN FAVOUR of retaining their current status as a BRITISH OVERSEAS TERRITORY. Compare that to the election of your criminal “president”. Only got 54.11% of 78.89% of the electorate. I'd say the Falklands referendum has considerably more credibility than your “president”. And behind the Falkland Islands is Britain. And we all know that Brits are more than twice as good as argies. In some cases, nearly 100 times better. But you should be happy. Off your shore you have a real democracy and a thriving economy. You could learn. Instead of being an indolent, depraved, perverted, corrupt and criminal state, you could learn new attributes. Honesty, truthfulness, morality, propriety, legality, reason.
We were right then, we are right now,
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For its only the debunked and the losers that complains,
They only mention imperialism to try to help their case,
Bring up the past seems to be the plaything of CFK, the Argies live in the past, and sadly always will,
One day when they grow up and educate themselves on the meaning of democracy and right or wrong, they will finally understand , that the people have been brain washed all these years to feed the demented ego of a deluded woman..
.
Poor Catalonia looking for a bit of support from a Dick……
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.”Blah Blah ....oh yeah we definitely have the right to self-determination but…Ahhh you…umm…. well.... it may not apply to you as a people even though…….the right to self-determination is a universal right……ermm for peoples
Ermm ......there is the territorial integrity and the economy is integrated so .......errrm……..Please don't mention Scotland, please don't mention Scotland……phew! they never mentioned Scotland…….
So……..don't resort to violence and next question please!
(Help Catalonia)……Darn it...... I told you we should have interviewed Alex Salmond or David Cameron and not this Dick…….
@2
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is strange that Argentina and its people completely deny any expression from the Islanders regarding their political status by calling it 'illegal', 'meaningless', 'irrelevant', 'without UN approval', etc. UNLESS the expression is in favour of Argentina's position.... e.g. Alexander Betts or Jamie Peck. Funny how their views matter only when they are in agreement.... good old Argentina!
2
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I determine your referendum to be illegal and meaningless”
LOL,
Even if Vestige did have powers of reasoning, he himself is irrelevant compared to the people who live there and are eligible to vote.
:-)
@17 Argie_Voice
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are important and obvious differences between the Catalan case and the Falklands one.
Catalonia is part of a unitary state which may wish to secede. Legally, the right to self-determination in this case is not established.
The Falklands are an NSGT, which a foreign aggressive neighbour seeks to absorb. The right to self-determination for specifically and particulalrly for NSGTs has been repeatedly stated by the UN. This is why, for example, the Chinese, being much smarter than the Argentines, made sure that Hong King and Macau were removed from the UN lists before the leases expired.
Or in other words, by continuing to treat the Falklands as a case of colonialism rather than a sovereignity dispute, Arjuntina is once again shooting itself in the foot.
(It must be quite a contortion, shooting yourself in the foot when you've got it in your mouth, but Hector and Cristina are certainly up to the job)
@20
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My point which you appear to have missed is the universal right to self-determination by all peoples.........including Catalan........you may have noticed it is apparently ok for Scotland despite Territorial Integrity and integrated economy.
So what part of a universal right to self-determination is not established?
BTW......It's no worse than you trying to read my post properly with your head stuck up your arse.....difficult I would imagine.
TWIMC
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Catalan friends….
I’m an average Argentinean, with more years behind me than I care to remember…..
I knew quite a few Civil War Catalans exiles down here….
I have been married to a Basque nationalist…
I had an uncle in the Int. Brigades in 37…..
I support the Catalunya Lliure idea ….
But; I “Think”, my dear Catalan friends that, in your effort to find allies to your National self-determination cause, you are backing up the wrong side here…..
You are plainly supporting the Invader, not the Invaded…
This Mr. Sawle you interview here, is a British born and raised professional politician representing one of the last vestiges of the British colonial past….
And…… It is not “ONLY” the Malvinas Islands the British want….
They want the South Georgia Islands…., the South Sandwich Islands…. and about 1/10 of the Antarctic continent…..
A grand total of some 12,000,000 square km of territories and adjacent waters. (that’s roughly 400 times the area of Catalunya)….
Including all its potential mineral and fisheries resources….
All the above under the excuse of protecting the alleged Self-Determination right of some “ 2,500 BRITISH citizens in the Malvinas Islands crying aloud that they “just want to live in peace”…..
Best regards
El Think, Chubut, Patagonia, Argentina.
Very well summed up, Think.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Greetings.
Dear catalonians
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He wants what they have, remind you of anyone?
@22 ArgieVoice of Thinkedover
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”They want the South Georgia Islands…., the South Sandwich Islands…. and about 1/10 of the Antarctic continent…..
A grand total of some 12,000,000 square km of territories and adjacent waters. (that’s roughly 400 times the area of Catalunya)….
Including all its potential mineral and fisheries resources….”
...and Argentina is trying to take these possessions (Including all their potential mineral and fisheries resources….) from the rightful owners and current inhabitants because ARGENTINA WANTS THEM.
@22 think
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has never had the Falkland Islands, the South Georgia Islands, the South Sandwich Islands and the Antarctic continent !!!!!!
Love it when he says they want.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They do not want anything, they already have it and have had for nearly two centuries.
Shame that, ah well there you go. You know, there is a word that describes that.
Now what is it?
Oh yeah!
TOUGH!!!!!
@21
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously have some difficulties with reading comprehension and conducting research, which curiously have no impact on your ability to construct an opinion.
Try reading up on Kosovo, the Aland Islands, and the Bakassi peninsula. Then try to think what the difference is between the current situation regarding Scotland and Catalonia.
You might get there in the end.
@22
It's not a question of what we want, but what we have. And the unfortunate fact of the matter is that your grounds for having it are much weaker than ours, and especially comical in the case of the former Falkland Islands Dependencies.
No matter who your relatives were.
@28
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I believe you have trouble understanding the word Universal....it's not difficult to research.....
Adjective
Of, affecting, or done by all people or things in the world or in a particular group.
Noun
A person or thing having universal effect, currency, or application, in particular.
Synonyms
general - catholic - worldwide - common - global
Argentina has a strong case for claiming Queen Maud Land in Antarctica. That many Nazis disappeared into Argentina that they have a decent argument for a claim based in heritage alone.
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Falkland Islands Government, Dick Sawle MLA, The Challenge of Sovereignty in small states As I mentioned previously, the UN itself, in 2008, rejected the claim that a dispute over sovereignty affected self-determination, affirming self-determination to be “a basic human right.”
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A basic human right.......that he thinks, doesn't apply to Catalonians.......the guy is a joke! or a Dick
@30
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh shit, and there was me thinking universal was a film studio.
Whatever aspirational statements may be made about universal human rights, the legal position is different for NSGTs, as opposed to constituent parts of an existing country, or territories forming the object of a sovereignity dispute.
Basically, where a clear legal title exists, the principle of territorial integrity prevails (Aland, Bakassi), except in exceptional cases such as e.g violence against the minority population (Kosovo).
For NSGTs the principle of self-determination, as repeatedly stated by the UN, prevails.
The problem for your Argentine friends is that they are trying to claim territorial integrity where they have no legal title, and over an NSGT to boot. A double fail.
Now, try again to explain what “universal” means, unless it's that joint that allows you to keep your head up your arse with your foot in your mouth.
@32
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You really need to take that head out and read my posts........at any point did I mention NSGT's or the Falklands?
I was referring to his two faced attitude to Catalan contradicting himself in claiming that self-determination is a basic human right and that there is universal right to self-determination by all peoples........because apparently there isn't.
Self -Determination is obviously a farce and should not be used as a right by the Falklands if it only applies to some people.......is that difficult for you to understand?
@33
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Talk about obtuse. Sawle has quite simply restated the contradiction between what the UN votes, and what the International Court decides, a contradiction which is blindingly obvious to anyone who, unlike yourself, actually makes a little effort to look into the issue.
Self-determination is obviously not a farce, it simply is a principle which has to be reconciled with other competing principles. And the way it is reconciled depends on the characteristics of different cases.
Of course this may make it hard for simpletons.
@34
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh I had better change this.........
Paragraph 2 of UN Resolution 1514(XV) states that “all peoples have the right to self-determination”
To this.......
Paragraph 2 of UN Resolution 1514(XV) states that “SOME people have the right to self-determination”
It's hardly a principle then it it?
Hey I've seen that somewhere before.........
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
George Orwell
Is that what you mean?.......I do believe it is.
@2 and 7 Vestige (#)...Haw..haw...haw...These silly Argie dwarfs are a laugh a minute...I mean cmon now guys you gotta laugh at their insane babblings...!!
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@35
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UN Resolution 1514(XV) is about NSGTs. It is not about the right of secession. Most people can grasp this from the context, but you might be right that it would be clearer just to state that “SOME people have the right to self-determination”.
The Falklands, being an NSGT, fall squarely into the ”SOME people who have the right“
For an example of ”SOME people” who were fond by the ICJ not to have the right, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakassi
For somwbody else who was right, see recent statements by Dick Sawle, and indeed my own good self.
@37
Jul 03rd, 2013 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An interesting read about Bakassi........but it was not about self-determination the ICJ resolved a sovereignty issue giving Bakassi to Cameroon, there was no ruling on self-determination.
So forget the self praise and bask instead in being wrong!
Like you are wrong about self-determination........
”the right to self-determination is the cardinal principle in modern international law (jus cogens), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter’s norms.[1][2] It states that nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or interference
Neither does it state what the delimitation between nations should be — or even what constitutes a nation. In fact, there are conflicting definitions and legal criteria for determining which groups may legitimately claim the right to self-determination.
The NSGT's were a later addition to the existing principles.
Hope for you yet Catalonia.......
@37 HansNiesund:
Jul 04th, 2013 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why bother arguing with Thinko, Hans? He knows full well that the UN apply the salt-water thesis, and this would still apply to the Falklands even if Argentina had had sovereignty at the time of the Declaration on Colonial Peoples.
It states:
“The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation.”
The Plastic Spanish in BA are pretty alien to Falklanders, are they not, and that passage clearly sums up the Argentine attitude to Falklanders.
And they didn't have sovereignty at the time of the Declaration on Colonial Peoples, the UK did and recognised Falklanders as not being of the UK, so that blows the 'go home' calls out of the water.
Article 2 states that “ALL peoples have the right to self-determination” with the external limit from 1541 that the colonialism must be in a geographically distinct area.
The 'all' (universal if you like) right to self-determination spoken of by Falklanders refers to 'all' the NSGTs. That is not to say Catalonia should not have its actions respected if it decided to go it alone (how exactly would Madrid stop it if there was a visible mandate from the population of Catalonia?), but they are not covered by 'all' because they are not an NSGT.
@39 screennme: You nailed it, mate. Gives you reason to Argentina.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 02:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Self-determination was intended for cases like you mention:
“The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation.”
Example: liberation of the peoples of Africa from European domination.
This is not the case of the Malvinas.
The United Kingdom cunningly uses this anti colonialist principle to hold an overseas territory that was usurped to Argentina.
Funny right? Brits who want to remain British and want self-determination.
Really are aware of what they are saying?
@40 Malvinense 1833: “You nailed it”
Jul 04th, 2013 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is funny is that you do not seem to understand what self-determination is.
I said, the UK had sovereignty at the time of the Declaration on Colonial Peoples and recognised Falklanders as not being of the UK, so that blows the 'go home' calls out of the water.
Be as racist as you like, but the West indies is teeming with peoples that where taken there, and Argentina has an overwhelming preportion of European stock to its population makeup. The fact that Falklanders do not feel ready (or do not feel the need) for full independence from the UK does not make them any less of a valid population than Argentina, and the fact that the Falklands had no indigenous population makes them a more valid people than Argentina - Argentina is a WHOLLY USURPED LAND from indigenous peoples that now find themselves ethnic minorities in a country that didn't exist 200 years ago.
You need to start listening to Ban Ki Moon, and read just how far all Argentina's 'mates' at the C24 are willing to go in writing to the GA of the UN. It soon becomes obvious that Argentina has no legal case.
@22 Think,
Jul 04th, 2013 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0So you've surfaced at last!
l know its been stated here by others but l'll say it again.
1) We don't have to “want” the South Georgia & South Sandwich lslands etc, my dear Think, we ALREADY OWN THEM.(& you donot!).
2) We have an older claim to a part of Antarctica than you do.
You are Johnny-come-latelys, who think you can shoulder your way in.
3) And what would be the problem that we “want” them, Argentina “wants” them too!
4) You are only geographically closer to these territories because you expanded southwards towards them(at the native people's expense).
So you have no business here at all.
Excellent story, well written and asked a lot of the questions I might, it is also great to see Catalonia get a mention when there struggle is a little different to that of the Falklands, Spain needs to wake up, Gibraltar is British and has been for over 300 years, Tenerife is Moroccos, and if the Catalan's want independence they should get a referendum like Scotland, Falklands etc, I must admit it is shameful to think that we are in partnership with Spain as EU members, yet they are willing to use military force against people seeking self-determination on the European continent my view is Spain has no place in the EU and comes across very much like the Franco days... a corrupt Dictatorship.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britain may have been a colonial power but then, Britain was not the only one, it seems the brits have moved on.
It seems A-hole and Thicko are a bit lost.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0A-Hole
I am assuming somewhere in the slums of buenos aires where you are eeking out a meagre existence you “own” some sort of corrugated iron shack.
It would be impossible for you claim “self-determination” and set up the nation state of “A-holeshack”.
This does not mean that you are not a person (although intellectually you seem nearer bacteria), nor does it mean that you are not entitled to self-determination, it just means that you cannot use your universal right (which nobody denies you) to break up the dubious territorial integrity of Argentina.
Scotland gaining independence will not disrupt the territorial integrity of the UK, although unlikely it will happen, both the remaining parts of the UK and Scotland can exist perfectly happily either way, certainly the English would be delighted never to have the likes of Gordon Brown or Alastair Darling running their country again.
The Falkland islands ABSOLUTELY do not disrupt the territorial integrity of Argentina. They were 1000 miles away in 1833, and the genocidal theft of Patagonia moved that distance to 300 miles. they have also proven for 180 years that neither side need the other.
However, London claiming independence, certainly would disrupt the territorial integrity of the UK, for clear and obvious reasons. Nobody denies “londoners” thier right to self determination...which they exercise both by electing MPs to Parliament and their own Mayor.
If Catalonia can show an independence model that neither harms them, or the rest of Spain and its supported by the people, it wouldnt be unreasonable to pursue it. What Dick Sawle seemed to say is that he didnt know whether such a model existed.
As far as Thick is concerned:
The British dont want territory Thick...theyve given away more territory than any country in history.
it is the Argenines who live on genocidally stolen land and want more
Malvinense - and how would you allow the democratic rights of those Argentine born and thus Argentine nationals, and all the other non-Britishor Islands born who voted YES in the Referendum?
Jul 04th, 2013 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0It would be a mistake for the Catalans to look to the Falkland Islanders for an example of self-determination. The only thing they have in common is a powerful neighbour. In Help Catalonia’s interview with MLA Dick Sawle the reader may get the impression that the Islanders are the new champions of the right of self-determination. They are not. They are the impostors of self-determination.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact the March referendum was an abuse of process. The islands are subject to a dispute of sovereignty in the United Nations. Since the General Assembly passed resolution 2065 (XX) Question of the Falkland Islands/Malvinas in 1965, the United Nations has denied the right of self-determination to the islanders. How can that possibly be, you may ask. The UN defined the inhabitants of the South Atlantic territory as a “population”, whose “interests” – but not their wishes - were to be borne in mind in the implementation of decolonization. The right of self-determination, as set down in Article 1 (2) of the Charter, is reserved for “peoples”. The Catalans are a people, the Falkland Islanders are not.
The islanders are not really interested in what the article describes as “British democratic culture”. That fact is illustrated by their attitude towards the possibility of being represented in the British Parliament. They – 3000 of them - are interested in protecting and furthering their own interests.
The article, by implication, rails against the powerful neighbour, against “government by decree” and the “use of force”. Surely the Catalans don’t need reminding that it was the British , progenitors of today’s islanders, who, using the threat of force, seized Puerto Soledad in 1833.
These RG trolls just cannot accept the fact that if they governed the Falklands, they would be the colonialists governing a territory against the wishes of the inhabitants
Jul 04th, 2013 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklanders would then start a guerrila war assasinating the RG political leaders & planting bombs in BsAs all in the name of self determination & would quickly become heroic freedom fighters in the eyes of the world.....sound familiar???
The current situation prevents this scenario which I'm sure most peace loving people of the world would agree with. So RGs it's time to accept the fact that after 180 years the Falklands will never be governed by Argentina no matter how much you whine, cry, cheat or lie............sea lo que sea!!!
@46
Jul 04th, 2013 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it was the Argentines WITH THE USE OF BRUTAL GENOCIDAL FORCE that seized patagonia in the 1880s..when are you going to return it?
It seems to me we are playing right into the hands of A_Voice: he must be minting it from his La Campora masters.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And why do we do it? All he does is deflect, chuck a stupid non-related comment in and we all go for it.
I don’t think he is a sock-puppet of The Suicide In Waiting but is probably TTT, so I for one will ignore his taunts. If we all did that it would starve him of his money and make him think about going out and getting a proper job if such things exist in The Dark Country for his deluded world view: ah, TMBOA will offer him a job!
@46. How DARE the Untermensch of the Falklands (like the Jews, Gypsies, Danes, Czechs, Slovaks, Slavs, Roma, Belgians and the rest) have an opinion and voice it without asking your permission.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a pathetic weak little fascist you are.
So weak you couldn't hold the Islands in 1982 when they were right next door (a feat of geography made possible by committing an official genocide against the outgunned indigenous population -- yeah that was brave). So weak the only way you can claim standing is to claim that they aren't really “people” like you did with the Native Americans, like the Nazis to the people they wanted to gas. So weak you lack even the resolve to take what little case you have to the one place that is supposed to here it, the ICJ. So weak the only way you can have a chance at punching back at the Falklands and the UK for showing the world what weak cowards you are is to try to get the world to disarm her defenders so you have a ghost of a chance.
And to top it all off of all so weak you can't stop people from voting -- and so weak you can't stop people from hearing about it.
Weak. Petulant. Impotent. Sniveling. Fascists.
Don't you realize that's how the world sees you outside of your puffed up narcissistic bubble?
Perhaps you should try to find something you're actually good at (well besides whining about not getting your way).
@46 Devolverislas: “but not their wishes”
Jul 04th, 2013 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Show me a UN document where it actually says “not their wishes”...and don't even think of coming back with “but,b-b-but it says INTERESTS!”
WISHES AND INTERESTS ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, but how can you explain that they would wish for something that not in their interests?
Your wishful thinking, me thinks.
And as for the UN denying the right of self-determination to the islanders, you don't seem to realise the islanders have self-determination already, evidenced by the fact they had a referendum whose OUTCOME is being observed by the involved parties (the Falklands and the UK). What has not happened is your team of hitlers at the C24 taking them off their list...something that is now being commented on by (you might know this fella, he's quite big at the UN) Ban Ki Moon: The C24 is not doing its job!!!
From a media point of view Bolivia have dropped Argentina right in it. It is now very clear from the paperwork sent to the GA from the C24 that all the hot air being blown by your Latin friends on the C24 is just that, HOT AIR.
You think the UN to denies Falklander self determination?
Looks like they make their own choices to me
You WANT the UN to deny Falklander self determination?
Hahahahahahahahah...a How is that going to happen? Hahahahahahaha
@51 re @46... whoa whoa whoa whoa whoooooaaaaa....
Jul 04th, 2013 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@51 “Show me a UN document where it actually says “not their wishes”...and don't even think of coming back with “but,b-b-but it says INTERESTS!”
@46 ” They – 3000 of them - are interested in protecting and furthering their own interests. “
I thought these untermensch had not only no ”peoples” status other than untermensch status by which you can do whatever you wanted to then just as you wanted to in 1982 but failed. But they now have interests? Bad feudian slip of you there.
Not only a weak, impotent, angry little fascist, but a stupid, weak, impotent, angry little fascist as well.
@20 “Catalonia is part of a unitary state which may wish to secede. Legally, the right to self-determination in this case is not established.” Really? Then how come Catalonia is an “autonomous community of Spain, with the official status of a nationality.”? If you look at the history, you'll see that there's only one important difference. For Catalonia, the “foreign aggressive neighbour” has succeeded. For the Falkland Islands, it hasn't! And it won't.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22 Whoops, Twinky. So many provable lies. Let's take that “professional politician” bit. Dick Sawle emigrated to the Falkland Islands in 1986. He worked as a teacher for 2 years. Then, once married, he and his wife founded a fishing company. He became a Justice of the Peace in 1999. In 2009, he retired from his company and was elected to the Legislative Assembly. That's 23 years after he emigrated. Doesn't really seem to jibe with being a “professional politician”, does it?
And, to correct your “misdirection”, Britain doesn't WANT South Georgia, the South Sandwich Islands and part of Antarctica. It HAS them. Despite all attempts by argie imperialist colonialists.
@40 You're funny. And twisted. Here's a better example. A largely ethnically-British population subjugated by latino-germanic colonists. Clearly aliens. Case closed. Not sure about “Malvinas”. Only in Cordoba, boyo!
@46 What a dumbo. Have you not noticed that the Falkland Islands is not a member of the United Nations? Therefore the UN has no legal or moral right to pontificate about what it does. In fact, I would recommend to the Islanders that they tell the UN to mind its own business!
@49 What you need to consider is that these argie bloggers, and their sycophants, are not costing us. They are an amusement. I admit that I occasionally become quite irate. I also admit to a desire to put nooses round their necks, kick away the chair and then get them to explain why I shouldn't let them die. Trouble is, it's hard to resist kicking their balls!
@52 You should look at the following:
Jul 04th, 2013 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/questions_answes.shtml
and
www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/67/134
(refers to 'populations')
and note
http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/questions_answes.shtml
Go and find a dark room and have a cry.
@54
Jul 04th, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.speroforum.com/a/33140/Remaining-nonselfgoverning-territories-must-have-full-freedom-of-choice-Ban-says#.UdHcad5wz9B
That was three years ago..........
.......Making a list..... checking it twice............Oh yeah they are still on the list......so much for words eh!
and what has changed in all these years......Oh they have voted to say they are British and want to remain British.......but we already knew that......so........no change........best stay on the list then.......enough to make you cry!
@55
Jul 04th, 2013 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the point is?
@55
Jul 04th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So much for words exactly....
Timmerman and CFK bleat on and on...and still the Falkland Islanders run their country, still they farm their land, fish their seas and explore for their oil.
So much for words....
Perhaps you could invade again?
Or perhaps write bullshit on an Internet news forum??..oh you are already doing that.
@56 - he's running low on argument.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@54 I've seen it yes... It's Devolverislas who always insists that the Islanders are not “a people” and that they only need to have their “interests” (not wishes) looked after, you know, the way that the Junta looked after the “interests” of anyone who stood in their way. But oops, he couldn't keep up the charade. Masks slip, and the stupid shines for all to see.
Jul 04th, 2013 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@56
Jul 04th, 2013 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My point is your little referendum didn't make a ha'porth of difference all that running round countries waving it like Chamberlain....peace in our time........
The reality is nothing has changed.......it didn't mean crap!
There is still a sovereignty issue as far as the UN is concerned and begging for recognition from the Yanks.......laughable.
Sawle.......double standards all round.......Catalonia is an autonomous nation it does have a parliament and does have a right to self-determination and have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or interference according to International law.
So why is he saying “but a powerful argument PERHAPS with Catalonia.”
Hypocrite you expect nations to support you whilst not supporting them.......creep!
And your point is?
@55 Thinkypoos: “Oh they have voted to say they are British and want to remain British”
Jul 04th, 2013 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You've got your Scottish Nationalist sock puppet account logged in Thinky.
You remembered the dots......but not the.......back story....,DOH!!!
Guess again, Scottish Nationalist??? No idea where you get that.........actually I'm You!
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There you go cat's out of the bag.
@62
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just a wee question, Hamish. How is it that you are so dismissive of the Falklands claim to self-determination, yet so supportive of Catalonia's?
Damn, I wondered why I kept blacking out...
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With reference to your gibberish @60, I can't be bother to waste time repying in full, so see post 39.
Some may consider Kosovo a game-changer for Catalonia at the UN, but in writing nothing has changed for Catalonia. Dick Sawle is correct to hold a conservative opinion on their position, even if he wishes them all the best in their drive to become a seperate country: it does not make him a hypocrite. I hold a similar opinion to Dick Sawle to Catalonia, with regards their rights as laid out in UN documents, but I would like to see them leave Spain. The only thing really putting off the split is Spanish threats of sanctions (as Spain is Catalonia's biggest trading partner) and blocking Catalonia from joining the EU (and the Spanish also threaten to block Scotland rejoining the EU).
I would also like to see the Canaries cede: it would be very interesting to see how the UN would deal with that one if Spain threw the toys out of the pram.
@63
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Catalonians are not calling themselves Spanish......Falklander's should not have accepted the Queens shilling. Self-determination for me is a separate identity.
This of course is only my opinion
@65
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So Catalonia has a separate identity from Span, and that's OK. The Falklanders have a separate identity from Arjuntina, but that apparently isn't?
Of course they do, they are British!
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But somehow being British means that they're not entitled to self-determination? Or rather, having determined to remain a BOT means that they never had the right to determine doodley-squat in the first place? So whether you have self-determination or not depends on what you actually choose to determine?
Jul 04th, 2013 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@65 A_Voice: “Catalonians are not calling themselves Spanish”
Jul 04th, 2013 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except maybe for those pesky international footballers
Chuckle Chuckle
@68
Jul 05th, 2013 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0that's right you answered your own questions self-determination for British citizens to remain British citizens is meaningless. Self-determination for Catalonians......a distinct and separate People from the Spanish has meaning.
Catalonians are not calling themselves Spanish and want Self-determination
British Citizens are calling themselves British Citizens and want Self-determination.
It is not going to work........the sovereignty issue is not going to go away through self-determination.
@70 A_Voice:
Jul 05th, 2013 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Talking gibberish again Thinko, you are getting self-determination mixed up with political independence.
Has your sock account been hacked? You are coming out with some even more strange stuff than usual. The way I read what you are saying, you 'Think' that Catalonians that want to cede have the right to exercise self-determination but Catalonians that would vote for Catalonia to remain part of Spain do not have the right to exercise self determination. That would make for a very strange referendum.
You Argentineans have a very strange take on democracy, no wonder your country is so messed up.
But if you insist on being silly, no self determination for Argentineans then?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl/hi/rugby_union/03/6nations/teams/italy/img/dominguez.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl/hi/rugby_union/03/6nations/teams/italy/img/dominguez.jpg
Chuckle Chuckle
60 A_Voice
Jul 05th, 2013 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0The sovereignty issue as far as the UN is concerned is a political issue which is unsolvable. Why because Argentina is stymied by the overwhelming legal case against her. Sovereignty was firmly established by the UK in 1833 under international law at that time. Even if Argentina could have made a claim subsequently, that opportunity is now gone because her failure to submit her claim for legal review within a reasonable time. Moreover self-determination is a bed-rock of international law. So the Brits are playing it perfectly, merely stating the legal salient points. Their implied premise is either attempt legally to wrest sovereignty from us, or we will continue with the status quo, as legally there is nothing Argentina can do.
@70
Jul 05th, 2013 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sometimes I think I've got the hang of Malvinista logic, but then somebody comes along with something like the universal fundamental human right to self-determination which only exists if you determine a pre-determined outcome, and I'm all muddled again. I guess it's kind of like the Malvinista concept of “negotitiaton”, which actually means the exact opposite of what a normal person might think it means.
@67
Jul 05th, 2013 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0If Shetland Islanders want independence from Scotland (or even stay with UK) would Scotland agree.
@ Alan
Jul 05th, 2013 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are plenty of Shetlanders unconvinced by Scottish independence. So the more interesting question is whether they could remain in the UK should the rest of Scotland want to secede. That's exactly what happened nearly a century ago in Northern Ireland and that status quo remains, now uncontested by either State and left to NI to self-determine.
I'm not sure Salmond would be happy to lose the oil though!
@46 Devolver
Jul 05th, 2013 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“How can that possibly be, you may ask. The UN defined the inhabitants of the South Atlantic territory as a “population”, whose “interests” – but not their wishes - were to be borne in mind in the implementation of decolonization.
Two points. As someone mentioned earlier I would be interested to see the document that says ”but not their wishes” in it.
Second point. Can you please explain to me how being colonised by an aggressive neighbor would be in the best interest of the Falkland Islands because I just don't see it.
@60 There is no sovereignty issue.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0The issue is only with Argentina.
I've told you the official UN line on the subject.
http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/questions_answers.shtml
The islanders have voiced their opinion and can stay as they are.
5. What can the Special Committee do for your homeland?
Jul 05th, 2013 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By following developments in the Non-Self-Governing Territories, the Committee of 24 seeks to protect the interests of the peoples in the Territories through dialogue with the administering Powers and the local governments.
It helps Territories find out how to get assistance from UN agencies.
By being an honest broker, the Committee of 24 can help your government and the administering Power work out a programme of work for de decolonization of your homeland based on the special characteristics of your Territory.
“being a honest broker” hahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhaha
Well I know what the C24 committee, is meant to be doing. Question is who's going to make them?
@75 Redrow: “I'm not sure Salmond would be happy to lose the oil though”
Jul 05th, 2013 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not clear if Scotland would lose the oil...Shetland may be closer, but it is very small and if the territorial water only extend 12 miles, Scotland as the larger land mass may end up with the oil in its EEZ which would surround Shetland.
It could all get very messy.
70 A_Voice
Jul 05th, 2013 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Catalans are Spanish citizens. If they exercise their right to self determination and decide to remain Spanish citizens, are you saying that their wishes should be disregarded? Or perhaps they should be put forcibly under the rule of some other third country? Morocco would be the obvious choice. After all, parts of Spain were once under the rule of some other country that wasn't yet Morocco.
You are making no sense at all. If we had decided to become part of Argentina, or even to seek independence, you wouldn't be trying to deny us our right to determine our own future.
The crucial point is that we are distinct in every way from Argentina. Our right not to be dominated and subjugated by a hostile foreign power is a cornerstone of the UNs commitment to everyone. Our choice to remain a BOT is our own business, and so is that same choice made by any other remaining OT. It is not for you or anyone else to limit the choices we make for our own future to those that you deem to be acceptable. Who do you think you are? You have no rights over us, or the Catalans or anyone else.
@79
Jul 05th, 2013 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An exclusive economic zone extends from the outer limit of the territorial sea to a maximum of 200 nautical miles (370.4 km) from the territorial sea baseline, thus it includes the contiguous zone. A coastal nation has control of all economic resources within its exclusive economic zone, including fishing, mining, oil exploration, and any pollution of those resources.
Shetland has an interesting history they have never belonged to Scotland......in legal terms the closest description would be a Crown Dependency and we all know what Crown Dependencies became.
Shetlanders think they are Viking and have no great love for Scotland and have a very good case for separation.......if Scotland gain Independence it will get very messy, Shetland could go the same way and leave Salmond almost destitute.
This was the opinion of Shetland.........
“When Norway became independent again in 1906 the Shetland authorities sent a letter to King Haakon VII in which they stated: ”Today no 'foreign' flag is more familiar or more welcome in our voes and havens than that of Norway, and Shetlanders continue to look upon Norway as their mother-land, and recall with pride and affection the time when their forefathers were under the rule of the Kings of Norway“
@80
Are you for real?
.......”The Catalans are Spanish citizens. If they exercise their right to self determination and decide to remain Spanish citizens, are you saying that their wishes should be disregarded?
Do you think the Catalonians are seeking Independence to remain Spanish Citizens??........The clue is in Independence movement
...........you are making no sense at all!
No-one questions whether the Falklands islanders want to remain British. They question the legitimacy of self-determination as the guiding principle of a territorial dispute..........and don't try and tell me that it isn't!
@81 Question the legitimacy of self determination and you will go back in history to countries claiming territory all over the place. That is what you call colonialism.
Jul 05th, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Careful, you might get him back on the topic of Sctland?
Jul 05th, 2013 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 081 A_Voice
Jul 05th, 2013 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I still don't understand your point. There is an independence movement in Catalonia. Presumably there is also a 'not independence' movement as well. I guess one day there will be a vote and one side or the other will win. It may be that the 'not independence' side will win. Which is every bit as valid an expression of the right to self determination as independence.
In the Falklands we have a 'British forever' movement, a 'British for the time being' movement and a quiet but significant 'independent one day' movement. Because of the way the referendum question was phrased, the only result that can be inferred is an almost unanimous 'British for the time being'. You say ''No-one questions whether the Falklands islanders want to remain British.''. Well you should, because this question isn't finished with yet.
Self determination is the guiding principle in this dispute because the alternative is unthinkable. The reason for that is that there are no subjugated Argentines here, there is no displaced population, there is no 'Motherland' for Falkland Islanders to return to. There is no acceptable mechanism to visit subjugation on a population that is completely unwilling and capable of resisting by force. The UN would never sanction it. I think Argentina would find a lot of that fake 'support' evaporating if it was ever tried again.
@84
Jul 05th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well that told me!!
A fairly frank and honest opinion........well done.
I don't think it's going to resolve it though......there is a larger game of chess being played and the Islanders I think, are the pawns.
@85
Jul 05th, 2013 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you actually saying USA/China are manipulating Syria, Israel, Afganistan, Pakistan, Africa but the real goal is the Falkland Islands. I think you are fantacising- the Falklands are an issue between UK and Argentina. Argentina may think it has global support but actually it is only rhetoric from a few S American countries. This supposed African support - Which African country has really made an issue of it. Even if they did it would make no difference - think of the problems Uk had with the IRA and it made no difference
@86
Jul 05th, 2013 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No what I'm saying is these islands are of great strategic importance to the UK and probably NATO and are also the key to Antarctica as well.......in the future and one way or another the UK is not going to give them up........the islanders mean nothing.
87Thinkedover
Jul 05th, 2013 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you are saying... is callous, cold, and calculating.
No waffling, it is likely the truth, exactly as YOU (Argentina) see it.
Thanks for that, you are clearly self-serving, ruthless, and inhumane.
@88
Jul 05th, 2013 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hold your horses matey...........I was drawing an analogy to my previous post......the game of chess and likening the islanders to pawns in a game.......they have little value.
.........People mean everything...........ALL PEOPLE! ........I'll have you know!
@81 A_Voice: “No-one questions whether the Falklands islanders want to remain British.”
Jul 05th, 2013 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe not now, but a few months ago the Falklanders themselves questioned it...remember, the referendum?
You Argentineans REALLY don't understand democracy do you...
@80 Monty69:
You do make sense. I wonder how shocked Thinko is going to be if Catalonia have a vote to become a seperate nation, and it is not 100% in favour!!!! The idea that there are people in Catalonia that don't want to leave Spain seems to be beyond his comprehension, not that it matters to him because the opinions of people that don't vote the way he expects don't count: no self determination for them!!!
@89 ArgieVoiceof Señor Thinkedover
Jul 06th, 2013 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please don't call me “Matey”, we are not mates, and we are not giving each other “friendly” jabs.
You are a vile liar and propagandist, a would be thief who enjoys discrediting the legitimate values of others, and hopes to profit from it.
Do not trivialise your campaign against the Falkland Islanders and their home, with your analogy.
This is NOT a “Chess Game”
You Trolls and your Queen, and her government, have repeatedly stated that the Islanders are irrelevant, do not exist, or are not a 'People', in order to disregard their Rights and Freedoms.
@Think
“.........People mean everything...........ALL PEOPLE! ........I'll have you know”
Those words belie your actions.
You singularly lack ANY human empathy compassion.
I stand by my previous statement,
“ ...you are clearly self-serving, ruthless, and inhumane”.
Go Troy!
Jul 06th, 2013 - 01:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for posting Anglotino,
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I forgot to call him a “Pompous shit” as well.
@91 Troy,
Jul 06th, 2013 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0l've called Think all these things & more, in the past.
Hasn't reformed him, however.
He's still a lying, old reprobate who hates us for some reason.
l call him, our resident snake.
@81 A_Voice
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0In 2008, a prolonged discussion took place at the UN Fourth Committee as to whether the fundamental right to 'self-determination' could be conditioned where there was sovereignty dispute. It was decided that where there was a sovereignty dispute it could NOT condition the right to 'self-determination' as it was too fundamental a human right to have conditions placed upon it.
So the right to self-determination by the Falkland Islanders IS legitimate.
@91
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hehehe.......Troy baby.....PMSL at that one......now put that dummy back in and stop embarrassing yourself you sound like a girl......haha that's it.....you are a girl aren't you.....you must be, you whine and nag like one.
Is it a date you want?......we could exchange email addresses???
Don't tell Anglotino though I can see you two have a thing going.
@94
You must be referring to Think......I am not old?
91 Troy Tempest
Jul 06th, 2013 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0$Excellent summary of the worst person by far to post on MP AND that is saying something when you consider the orther argies.
@97
Jul 06th, 2013 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you, thank you for the accolade….. still not speaking to Conqueror? He summed you up, to a tee……..the landless deserter, wistfully feeling you still belong to the club.
@91isolde
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“l call him, our resident snake.”
I don't have any pet names for him and not attempting to reform him or 'shame' him.
As I said, he enjoys this.
I let him know that I did not find his attempts at clever repartee to be either witty or amusing.
Now, @96 he's pissed that I didn't allow him to dismiss his outrageous analogy and comments, by using his jocular, “Heigh-ho, Matey, it's all in good fun” schtick.
Bitter bitter bitter...
98 A_Voice
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still talking utter tosh old man?
Unlike you I keep my word, so no, I do not respond to Conqueror.
Just watch out that Condorito and his mates don't invade Chubut and shoot your butt.
Ha, ha.
@100
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Haha....RSVP
“Unlike you I keep my word,”.......you said @100
“so I for one will ignore his taunts. ” you said @49
I do so like........ making a liar out of you.......remember to be a good liar you need a good memory.......losing it with old age are you??
ChrisR
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enough about Thinkedover.
I think you and I have given him enough attention.
After all, we know he doesn't give a sh*t about the Falklands, SA issues, or even the average Argentinian citizen, for that matter (beneath him).
MP is just his personal playground for goading and baiting - all for attention.
In contrast, , there is no shortage of interesting items to discuss on here.
:-)
The Falkland Islands only have strategic importance WRT Antarctica for Argentina, not the UK which already has sufficient presence on the Antarctic continent, whilst Commonwealth countries such as Australia and New Zealand have a much more strategic position geographically and politically as well as on the continental land mass!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 06th, 2013 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@103
Jul 06th, 2013 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really?..... the Falklands is 500 miles closer to the Antarctic than New Zealand and who has control of the Airport on the Falklands??
@104
Jul 06th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MPA's main purpose is not to support British operations in Antarctica, it is to allow commercial flights in (ie not from Antarctica), and to defend the Islands from Argentine Imperialism
@105
Jul 06th, 2013 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Believe whatever you want to believe but I'm sure MPA's main purpose is whatever the British Government want it to be.
The Territories offer the UK:
> A global presence: the global spread of our Territories gives us access and insights in diverse regions of the world;
> A set of strategic assets: some of the Territories host military bases or cover regions of significant current operational and long term strategic value;
> Economic and financial opportunities: there are multiple economic opportunities for a broad spectrum of UK companies as well as financial sector specialists. The international financial centres in the Territories can play a positive and complementary role to the UK-based financial services industry with particular strengths in providing services to fast growing economies in Asia and the Americas;
> Natural and environmental resources: these are of global significance, including fisheries, minerals and hydrocarbons, and biodiversity far exceeding that in the UK’s home territory and waters. The diverse natural environments of the Territories provide UK and international scientists and specialists with unique opportunities for research, including into the evolution of the earth’s climate and plant and animal life;
Never going to give them up.......I would guess!
@106
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are very much focused on the strategic and economic benefits/resources of the Islands.
That must be why you want them.
You have already said that “the people don't matter”.
Or is it just, bitter and anti-British as you are, you don't want the Brits to have them?
I'd just love to know how the Argentinean government plan to explain the whole South Georgia thing, the island isn't anywhere near Argentina & that Arg whaling company was licensed by the British government. NO claim what so ever!
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0106.what the British Antarctic Territory, claimed in 1908, now which little fascist dictator started claiming it in the early 1940's? LOL.
(106) A_Voice
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Young man..... No wonder that you have the turnips confused.....
I have also noticed a few similitudes in our style & opinions.....
Your correct (and incorrect) use of ellipses.....
Your “ Kelpers as chess pawns” analogy.....
Are you my long lost identical twin.....?
;-)
The fact is girlies, you haven't been able to disprove a thing that Dick Salwe has said in his interview. It's all been bitch, bitch, bitch without any substantive evidence to the contrary. Hard cheese.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Turnip at (110)
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who the heck is Dick Salwe ?
@111
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Start the Damage Control Pantomime.
Who the hell is “young man”?
@111 Richard,
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Self-determination is a fundamental human right. It is not an 'alleged right.'
Head.
@112
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Me!
..........I'll bet you are familiar with this group eh! Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more!
Young man, there's no need to feel down.
I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground.
I said, young man, 'cause you're in a new town
There's no need to be unhappy.
@108 Think
Hehe I wasn't suggesting you are old.......Isolde was getting confused.
I actually never even noticed I used ellipses until Screenname mentioned the use of dots..........I can see why folk are confused.
Twin........are you 6'2” blue eyes, fair hair and fair complexion? If so, then maybe!
114 A_Voice
Jul 06th, 2013 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And a Python lover too!
Say no more....
Green eyes, I'm afraid.......
See man city are linked with this 'Argentinean'
Jul 06th, 2013 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Daniel_Osvaldo
This self determination for Latins in South America does not seem fair in A_Voice world
Chuckle Chuckle
Anywhoo...
@114 and @109 A_VoiceThink:
This is a comments section, not an exercise in formal writing from an English Exam........................I get the idea that most rational posters are more impressed by well thought arguments that can be applied universally with some sense of justice..............than...........grammar,,,,,,,,,,,OK???????
And if you think this particular puppet stood out because of a few dots.........................................well I'm afraid you're a bit wide of the mark.
@110 Brit Bob:
Hit A couple of kyes in the wrong order (on a site with no edit function) and Thiko jumps on it as though he does not know what you mean? A sure sign the mad malvinista is having a mare.
@97 ChrisR:
Although Think (and his puppets) do make the odd vile comment, to say he is the worst on here when we have had to endure Nostils (who, TBF, may have had mental health issues) and currently Marcus Alejandro (who, luckily, is a bit simple) seems a bit harsh. I actually can't think of a malvinista poster that may not have aided the Falklander cause (at least to interested English-speakers) by adding some bonkers comment that shows up the Argentinean claim and attitudes in a very negative way.
@116
Jul 06th, 2013 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But I'm not wide of the mark with your Wannabe status.......whose puppet are you?
Not from the UK that's for sure!
What's that throw away comment about Man City for? Trying to fool people into thinking you are British?
116 screenname
Jul 06th, 2013 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Forgive me for not knowing, but how long have you been posting on here?
I need the answer before I reply to your post. Thanks.
@117
Jul 06th, 2013 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Damn - you found out!!!
@114 A_Voice,
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't confuse me, l merely “suggested”(accused would be too strong a word!) that you might be a cover for our dear twisty sr Think.
As he had been scarce for some time.
Whatever, if you're firmly in the malvinista camp then you're no friend of mine.
btw-whats YOUR reasoning re Argentina's “claim” on South Georgia?
@120 Isolde
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am a little confused by your comments, as even when Think is not scarce I am still here and commenting
I am in my own camp and comment as I see fit........and have plenty of friends......
I have a tendency to ridicule and most times cannot resist. I don't feel comfortable ridiculing women so I will not be drawn into an argument with you........sorry!
@118 ChrisR: “how long have you been posting on here?”
Jul 07th, 2013 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 018 months-ish
@117 A_Voice: “Trying to fool people into thinking you are British?”
I don't care where people think I am from, the comment had to be about man city, because that is who the player is linked with. What about my earlier link to Sergio Parisse? He plays for Paris SF, so does that mean I was pretending to be French?
Argentineans choosing to be Italian...no self determination for them by your logic.
Chuckle Chuckle
@122
Jul 07th, 2013 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0You may not care where people think you are from but I know where you are definitely not from......puppet or wannabe one of the two.
It may take a while but folk always give themselves away.......I had my suspicions about you a long time ago.......care to elaborate (fabricate) a history.......thought not!
@123 Think/DoD/Surfer/A_Voice/El capitano/Helsingborgcontext (or something like that), plus a few that you might have hidden slightly better
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good one Thinko!! Do you know what I did when I read it?
Chuckle Chuckle
You brought a smile into the world. Well done.
@121 Argie Voice of Thinkedover
Jul 07th, 2013 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I have a tendency to ridicule and most times cannot resist. I don't feel comfortable ridiculing women so I will not be drawn into an argument with you........sorry!”
In a stroke, Athinkedover dodges the question and as a misogynist, he dismisses Isolde as not warranting a reply by dint of being a woman.
Very much in character with the 'Think' that we know.
@ 125 Troy Tempest,
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the support, Troy.
@121 A_Voice,
So we're not arguing. l merely would like to know YOUR reasons, if any, why you think South Georgia belongs to Argentina.
Here is your chance to put your views on this subject.
Thank you
(126) lsolde
Jul 07th, 2013 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have been complaining about me being “Scarce”....
As you well know dahling, I'm always here for you....
Hope Mr. A_Voice doesn't mind my intrusion.....
You ask....:
“l merely would like to know YOUR reasons, if any, why you ”THINK“ South Georgia belongs to Argentina.”
Think says...:
For the same reason as the Prince Edward Islands belong to South Africa and not to England...
For the same reason as the Heard, Mc Donald & Macquaire Islands belong to Australia and not to England...
For the same reason as the Campbell Islands belong to New Zealand and not to England...
Because the function of Ex-Colonial Powers is to orderly retire to their Mother Countries, handing back them windblown Islands to their right owners, that being, the most adjacent Countries.
Hopefully, that pretty little feminine mind of yours can grasp the above concept... ;-)
Kind regards
El Think, Chubut, Patagonia, Argentina.
@125
Jul 07th, 2013 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0We'll take no notice of you……. your only experience of women is that you're a fanny!
@126 Isolde
It's a bit like anticipating having a sale and taking all the good stuff off display…..this is what happened in 1985.
The British anticipating the eventuality of having to come to some sort of a deal with Argentina removed the dependency from the Falklands……btw did you get to vote on that I wonder?…….No….
Anyway this fools no one, mere words to take Antarctica off the table or out of the sale. Yet it is still being administered by the Falklands Gov……Dependency it was, and dependency it is…….It's still on offer as far as Argentina is concerned.
122 screenname
Jul 07th, 2013 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have been posting for two years approx and was consistently abused by the example of argie vitriol that jokingly calls itself 'El Think'.
It selects part of a genuine post to portray the poster in a different, negative, light. It is still using my early posts so I suspect that La Camping It Up who it works for must provide a database on all the anti-argies for such use.
So I will stick to my very polite reference of 97.
@129 ChrisR:
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes I know he abuses people, but he does get a fair amount of stick as well. What you've not bearing in mind is that is completely deluded, so even though he as the old tantrum squealing about (10th generation – chuckle chuckle) 'squatters'that he expects the UK to ethnically cleanse from the Falklands just so things are nice and simple for Argentina (chuckle x Infinity) what you got to remember is that (like all malvinistas) for all the bluster is really about is threatening as a 1 cm flaccid penis.
Maybe I tolerate Think a bit more than some of the others because it can be quite amusing.
But maybe you are right in that because he is clearly more intelligent than most of the idiot pro Argentina expansionists that post on this website, that actually means he is a worse person, more dangerous, and more despicable. Some of the others are pretty obviously very stupid, so even though they come out with some horrible fascist stuff more regularly I suppose they have a better excuse: that said, Think was the numpty that proudly kept posting a link to an EU press conference where it was clearly stated that the Falklands referendum was an internal British matter, so didn't require comment at European level (chuckle chuckle).
I'm glad they are posting though, because it gives a platform for the Falklanders (and their allies) to swat down all the gibberish they come up with. While it could be argued that the responses to their mythical 'history'and bizarre take on the application of the UN Charter could be used to fine tune the imperialist Argentine argument, this seems to happen at a very slow pace and even when they do change their story you can bet your bottom dollar that one of their allies at the C24 will have not read the new script and trot out one of their old myths by accident.
I like the “La Camping It Up”, by the way. Proper laugh out loud.
I think I might use that at some point in the future if that's okay with you…
Hahahahahaha >_< So the only claim Argentina has for the South Georgia's is they are “near” its coast!, no legal or moral argument, just we wants them? awesome reasoning!.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm starting to think Argentina's moral compass is WAY off the mark, 70 years of Peronism has left the country a mess.
@127 Think,
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l wasn't speaking to you, oh sneaky, diverting, condescending one.
Perhaps you'd better read my question again.
We all know your answer.........greed. “because we want them”
You still never outlined Argentina's “rights” to South Georgia.
Of course you couldn't because Argentina has no rights there.
So you want to bully them out of us, to steal them like you've stolen most territory that is part of Argentina today.
btw-since you live in such virtuous, would-never-do-wrong country you'd perhaps like to tell us all when are you going to return the land that you stole from Paraguay & the land that you stole from the natives of Patagonia, after murdering most of them of course.
lsn't that the Argentine way of doing things? lt must be frustrating for you, knowing that your silly country will NEVER get their thieving paws on the Falklands, South Georgia or the SSIs etc.
Because they've NEVER been yours as much as you wish it so.
Proximity is NOT a valid reason, Thinkus Serpentus Evilus.
@128 A_Voice,
Falkland lslands & South Georgia, 2 British territories that have absolutely nothing at all to do with Argentina.
An internal realignment that is none of your business.
lt may be true what you say, so what? Whats it got to do with you or Argentina? nuzzing.
The two territories were put together for administrative convenience.
ln 1985, l was not here, so l could hardly have had a vote if one had been offered. l agree with the separation though.
Getting back to my original question, A_Voice.
What reasons do YOU give why South Georgia should belong to Argentina?
lgnore that Think person, give me YOUR reasons.
l await your revelations in breathless high anticipation.
à bientot. I.
@131
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahahahaha >_< So the only claim Argentina has for the South Georgia's is they are “near” its coast!, no legal or moral argument, just we wants them? awesome reasoning!.
Hahahahahaha >_< So the only claim Britain has for the East Falkland is they are “near” West Falkland, no legal or moral argument, just we wants them? awesome reasoning!.
@132 Isolde
“An internal realignment that is none of your business.
lt may be true what you say, so what? Whats it got to do with you or Argentina? nuzzing”
That's an answer???
Apparently it was none of the islanders business either, do some checking for me......did they get to vote on losing this huge area?
What happened to determining things for your self?
What happens in the case of Independence will the FIG say.......“wait a minute we've been shafted by the UK weren't these islands our dependency......for how long?”
You know fine well it's true what I say, either way the UK is going to walk away with South Georgia and Sandwich and the stepping stone to Antarctica and use your airport forever in the name of defence.......Check......but the Mate will be known in the future.......Prawns.....
BTW I gave you my answer......South Georgia etc is still a dependency of Falklands.......ergo......what happens to dependencies in Sovereignty issues?
In exactly the same way that Scotland will be claiming Shetland with dubious legal basis.........or none.......“but it has been part of Scotland for such a long time”.....Ring any bells?
A_lonely voice. lol so no legal or moral argument then.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I want, I want, I want, wow know wonder no one listens to Argentina.
“ continuous and unchallenged British possession and government for South Georgia was provided for by the British Letters Patent of 1843, revised in 1876, 1892, 1908 and 1917”
“South Georgia was governed by Britain as a Falkland Islands Dependency, a distinct entity administered through the Falkland Islands but not part of them in political or financial respect”
It's wiki, but then again, I'am arguing with someone who's been brainwashed since birth to not think for themselves. So it'll do...
@134
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0cornishair. lol so no legal or moral argument then.
I want, I want, I want, East Falkland even though there is no legal or historical entitlement to it.......wow no wonder no one listens to UK.
(133) A_Voice
Jul 07th, 2013 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem somehow baffled by Kelperette wannabe Isolde's “particular” way of answering questions…….
Don’t be....
It's the Kelper way……
135. Well i see a legal claim in my last comment & i would say its pretty moral to not give into a some nationalistic bully tactics by a 3rd world country like Argentina.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0East falklands, hahaha. Seem to remember something about a sovereignty with the SPANISH, but they gave that up in 1863.
You really need to start teaching your children critical analysis, instead of state propaganda.
136 Think
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes quite baffled, they apparently can easily identify the “Evil Argentines” and are yet quite happy and oblivious of being screwed by their own country.
“Wake up and smell the coffee anyone?”
@137
Speaking of critical analysis.......got a question for you.......When is a pirate not a pirate?.........When they are not prosecuted and are set free!
Clue.......when a government is recognised by the accusing government!
@137cornishair
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“East falklands, hahaha. Seem to remember something about a sovereignty with the SPANISH, but they gave that up in 1863.”
I seem to remember something about an attempt at sovereignty with the ARGENTINES too, but they gave that up in 1982.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Falkland
So much for ArgieVoiceThinkDover's claim on East Falkland.
Well Brits and friends, if ever we needed proof of the utter stupidity of certain argies (as distinct to the usual stupidity) we have it now with them talking to themselves.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha Ha that's it, rally the troops.......bring them on.........“I see no ships”
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All the ex-cow-pats and wannabe's...........yawn!
Sovereignty over South Georgia has nothing to do with sovereignty over the Falklands, and it is not a dependency of the Falklands. South Georgia is part of a separate OT, the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain never complained about what the UK had done so long ago lost to the UK any rights it may have had in East Falklands.
“....wow no wonder no one listens to UK.”
Jul 07th, 2013 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hmm.. seem to remember reading recently the UK was vote the country with the most “soft power” in world. try spending 0.7 % of GDP on humanitarian aid, then someone may listen to your country.
“Speaking of critical analysis.......got a question for you.......When is a pirate not a pirate?”
Well thats easy, A privateer used similar methods to a pirate, but acted while in possession of a commission or letter of marque from a government authorizing the capture of merchant ships belonging to an enemy nation. For example, the United States Constitution of 1787 specifically authorized Congress to issue letters of marque and reprisal. The letter of marque was recognized by international convention and meant that a privateer could not technically be charged with piracy while attacking the targets named in his commission.
I find your find Sir Francis Drake was a privateer and not a pirate as the Spanish like to say, tho you are a ex-spanish colony. So you picked up that little untrue.
“I see no ships”
Are you talking about the Armada de la República Argentina ?
@143
Jul 07th, 2013 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong end of the stick mate.......on all accounts
(138) A_Voice
Jul 07th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say....:
”..... they (the Kelpers) apparently can easily identify the “Evil Argentines” and are yet quite happy and oblivious of being screwed by their own country.“
I say....:
It's a bit more complicated than that, dear Mr. A_Voice……
Kelpers have ”been screwed by their own Country for almost 150 years“.....
Speaking to them personally, you realize that since 1982 many ”Think“ that they are ”Fully Hedged”.....
Most Kelpers can max. envisage three scenarios.....:
1) If they find commercial oil, they will be very rich and all their problems will be over........
2) If they don't, they will continue squatting as usual under English military protection........
3) If the worst should happen they expect to be royally compensated and offered relocation in OZ, NZ or the UK.........
Only thing is.......... There is no such thing as “Fully Hedged” in life.....
@145 Think:
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say....:
“gottle of geer”
He say....types it out
Chuckle Chuckle
@145Think
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you really think that you need to 'explain' to naive Señor “A-Voice” the “evils” of the UK Government and the anticipated fates of the Falkland Islanders???
Wonderful Troll Pantomime again, especially the classic Dramatic Device of having one character explain background information to another character, for the benefit of the audience.
Btw, you're no Shakespeare.
@145
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”they will continue squatting as usual
As do the latino squatters in South America but under inferior protection. Mind you, it is strong enough to stop the native Amerindians getting back the land that was stolen from them by the latino squatters.
@147
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear the idiot brigade have arrived........and what would a Canadian Wannabe know about Shakespeare??
..............“For what care I who calls me well or ill”
@146
“Twinkle, twinkle, little star, How I wonder what you are.”
Not UK that's for sure.......are you Anglotino?......Troy?.........Irish?.....An Immigrant residing in the UK.......
..........“I know not how to tell thee who I am:”
@149
Jul 07th, 2013 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An impotent response from a bitter Argentine “Wannabe”.
yawn
@133 A_Voice,
Jul 07th, 2013 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So of course, no credible answer at all, from you.
l guess l should not have hoped otherwise.
So by your reasoning,as you erroneously believe that the Falklands belong to Argentina, anything connected with the Falklands also belongs to Argentina? What about my bank balance in the USA?
Is that Argentina's also?
Argentina has absolutely NO moral, legal or legitimate rights on South Georgia at all.
You are opportunists who scented some easy pickings, only it didn't work out like that for you did it? We fought back & as we all know, bullies don't like it when their intended victim fights back.
Especially when the intended victim flogs the would be bully. As we did!
So you haven't given me an answer at all.
l'll ask you again & no mumbo-jumbo this time:-
****“What is the basis for Argentina's ”“claims”“on South Georgia”?****
Quite apart from the fact that they USED to be a dependency of the Falkland lslands(but didn't belong to the Falklands, were merely administrated from the Falklands).
Come on A_Voice, here is your chance to put forward, Argentina's case for South Georgia.
@145 Think,
You can stay out of this, Thinky-boy.
AVoice has the floor & doesn't need any prompting from the likes of you.
Merci.
“A-Voice” afraid of a girl - who'd a 'Thunk' it???
Jul 08th, 2013 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0ja ja ja ....................
:-D
@151 Isolde
Jul 08th, 2013 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I gave you my opinion twice, the British removing the dependency status is fairly indicative of an attempt to remove any future claim by the Falklands or the inevitable fire sale with Argentina.
As for what constitutes a credible answer, these are some of yours
“An internal realignment that is none of your business.“
”Whats it got to do with you or Argentina? “
”We fought back & as we all know“,...You ?? who were you fighting in 1982?
”Especially when the intended victim flogs the would be bully. As we did!“…..you were on the Falklands in 1982. Were you even British then?
”What about my bank balance in the USA?”…Is that territory?
and what's wrong with a British bank account, that's usually what British people have or do you have US nationality as well?
Definitely appears the Falklands consists of a population and not a people!
Perhaps you would agree the Ethnic peoples of Birmingham UK should have the right to self-determination…I would think they have a far greater representation numerically than the population of the Falklands?
I'm not sure any layman can give you an answer to the basis of the Argentine claim of South Georgia the details were passed by Argentine diplomats to the UN and are not in the public domain, all 800 kg of documents…….all we can do is speculate.
There are no permanent residents, no population for these colonial relics, the claim of GB is based on colonial claim or discovery by James Cook…….based on that, why not claim Hawaii back from the Yanks.
Double standards GB claim to have moved forward from the Colonial days and yet grasp onto the relics……..when it suits.
These relics should be given to the nearest countries as they did with most of the other dependencies…the UK still trying to exert it's influence on the world and it's Ancient Claims like the dinosaur it is.
That's my opinion and as you are not privy to all or any of the info submitted all you can do is express yours.
A Colonial Power...without the Power!
A-hole
Jul 08th, 2013 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you say “Britain has no historic moral or legal right to East Falkland”
I say, then who does?
Spain voluntarily vacated East Falkland in 1811 they have never subsequently returned or shown any desire to do so. Surely by now their moral, legal and historic right has lapsed.
France voluntarily vacated East Falkland in 1767 they have never subsequently returned or shown any desire to do so. Surely by now their moral, legal and historic right has lapsed.
The islands were empty when the UP declared independence. The UP subsequently split into Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay a bit of Bolivia and a bit of Brazil?
There would appear to be no case that any or all of the above “inherited the Spanish claim, or that Spain relinquished it”. There were no people to claim independence nor any evidence that the last inhabitants would have chosen remaining with Spain, Independence, Uruguay, Paraguay, Argentina or Chile as their new home.
So, as of 1811 hopefully we can agree that Britain never relinquished its claim to west Falkland and Spain has now relinquished its claim to East Falkland.
Did the UP, Argentina, or anyone else “did enough” to claim sovereignty of East Falkland between 1811 and 1833.
Herein lies the Jewitt, Vernet and Mestevier fairy stories
Most importantly none of these claims seem to distinguish between East and West Falkland, so clearly they were ignoring the british claim and trying to “usurp” West Falkland in a blatant act of 19th century colonialism. More hypocrisy then, if britain were deemed to retaliate in kind.
As nobody from Jewitts crew nor from Vernets community were eer evicted, one can only assume that they and their descendents (I know!) accepted the status quo and make up the rich tapestry of Falkland islanders who have been British for 180 years...so it comes down to Mestevier.
Did Mesteviers expedition in november 1832 with all its consequences establish irrefutable historic, moral and legalArgentine sovereignty as you claim..?
@153
Jul 08th, 2013 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> …….all we can do is speculate.
Don't be silly. The basis of the Argentine claim to South Georgia is well known. They say it's Argentine because a Norwegian whaler who took a lease from the UK at the turn of the century had his company incorporated in BA.
This is probably the most preposterous argument of all, even taking into account the “implanted population” argument, the newspaper report of a pirate reading a letter, the 1833 expulsion that never happened, the inheritance from Spain that never was left, the use of one word instead of another in a 60 year-old resolution violated by Argentina, and all the various treaties, agreements, and UN resolutions which purportedly do say what they don't say and don't say what they do.
But such is life without a sense of embarrassment.
@154 Monkey Chops
Jul 08th, 2013 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain wasn't the only country that voluntarily vacated the Falklands, I see you forgot to mention!
and.......
“The islands were empty when the UP declared independence. The UP subsequently split into Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay a bit of Bolivia and a bit of Brazil?”
None of these countries, except Argentina claimed the Islands!
“Did the UP, Argentina, or anyone else “did enough” to claim sovereignty of East Falkland between 1811 and 1833.”..........Yes and if the US hadn't destroyed the settlement because of their unsubstantiated claim of piracy........What happens to pirates when they are caught??.........They are set free!
When the Brits arrived what did they do first?........renew their claim to West Falkland..........then take over administration of East Falkland leaving some of the original settlers (sanctioned by BA and recognised by the US and sanctioned by the UK in administration of West Falkland, (Vernet permission).
It is interesting to note UK and US both recognised BA Govt at the time.
Ergo......some of the settlers are from the settlement established by Argentina, not UK, all UK did was replace administration!.........Seems like a claim to me!
@155
I disagree, what would be really silly is to sum up 800kg of documents into one sentence.......
“They say it's Argentine because a Norwegian whaler who took a lease from the UK at the turn of the century had his company incorporated in BA.”
Unless of course you work for the UN and had a peek or you are an Argentine diplomat and had a peek!
Or you only know of what is in the public domain like everyone else!
Or lets stretch the imagination and assume the Argentine Govt said to the UN, “BTW please feel free to publish the contents of these documents in to the public domain”..........not!
Argentina made a claim. In 1829. That does not mean it ever established any sovereignty. If East Falkland was Spanish in 1816, then it was still Spanish in 1833. What Argentina did up to 1833 was not enough to overcome the Spanish claim.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sovereignty must be relinquished. It's not enough to simply abandon a territory. Spain did not begin to relinquish its claims in the Americas until 1836, and 1811 to 1833 is too short a time for Spain to have relinquished its claim by prescription.
The UP achieved its independence by unilateral secession against Spain so no inheritance.
Uti possidetis juris was not international law during any part of the 19th century, so it placed no obligation on Spain, a requirement for Argentina to have inherited East Falkland.
Argentina never established full effective control over East Falklands for long enough to overcome the Spanish claim, a requirement in the case of unilateral secession. In fact it never established full effective control over any part of the Falklands at all, not even over Port Louis.
The basis of Argentina's claim to SG&SSI is.. Actually, they don't have a basis. They lump it together with the Falklands and claim they inherited the whole lot from Spain, even though Spain never claimed them.
Territories without permanent populations are not colonies. There's no population to relinquish them to, and no obligation to relinquish them to any other state.
And recognition of a state does not imply recognition of all that state's territorial claims.
dab
Jul 08th, 2013 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0nice summary.
@156
Jul 08th, 2013 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh. I see. It's a secret claim, therefore it must be good. No way could that be preposterous. Why, it might even be every bit as weighty as their legal case before the ICJ. How many kg for that one, do you think?
@157
Jul 08th, 2013 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Uti possidetis juris , a principle in international law which states that newly independent states occupy the borders in which the antecedent province resided prior to sovereignty.
Therefore the claim is that, upon Argentina's independence, it naturally assumes control of the Falklands from Spain.
If this was not lawful at the time then what is?
this…….
So occupation was a legitimate mode for acquiring territory according to the prevailing rules of the time?......
They did occupy it!
or this……
Upon the independence of a nation, if there is no explicit treaty delineating the borders of this nation between the new state and its parent state, then its borders are decided by power, such that whatever land the new state is able to successfully take and control belongs to it.
They did until the US destroyed the settlement……
The wholes episode is surrounded by confusion and ambiguity……a clear case for a sovereignty dispute and conflicting claims. Most notable is that Spain have not claimed sovereignty impelling the argument that the islands were res nullius (without an owner) at the time of Argentinian colonisation.
In particular East Falkland, I do not dispute the British have a claim to West Falkland…….so all pack your bags and move there or negotiate with Argentina over East Falkland!
@158
Do you not have the capabilities of constructing your own argument? All you appear to do is cheer everyone else like some demented sycophant.
@159
Is it a secret claim? I'm sure the UN is aware of it......are you saying Joe Public is privy to all UN information?
Your attempts at witty repartee are failing........why not stick to your pre-written musical ditties, much more enjoyable!
@160
Jul 08th, 2013 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tt's called reductio ad absurdum, and in your case it doesn't have to be reduced very far.
160 A_Voice (#)
Jul 08th, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jul 08th, 2013 - 04:28 pm
If you are so convinced that the Argentine claim is true, why not convince the government to take it to the ICJ and then we can all get on with living our lives in peace!!!!!!!
@161
Jul 08th, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Snort of derision.....
If the logic of an argument is valid then the conclusion must also be valid, which means that if the premises are all true then the conclusion must also be true.
@162
Why do people, when they can't refute an argument either…..
a) resort to name calling
or
b) “well take it to the ICJ then”
Oh let me just try that shall I…….Ring Ring.......“Excuse me Hector, What? oh this is not Hector……What?…. he doesn't take calls from people with an opinion of sovereignty issues…….Oh ok it's just some idiot told me I should give the government a call……..”............ :-))))))))))))
162 Simon68
Jul 08th, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear, now you have done it Simon: upset The Suicide In Waiting (of Chubut) sock puppet: WELL DONE.
You have obviously hit a nerve here (and it is full of nerves and abuse for others) which has reduced it to rambling nonsense as if Timerturd CAN answer a 'phone for himself!
LOLs Hope the family is well.
Awww..... A_little voice/think is in a spin over the non-legality of Argentina's claim.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Argentina, always the victim. unless your a native people, then Argentina's always the aggressor.
That a few rebel colonies adopted a formula for their common borders in bilateral treaties and gave that formula the title UPJ did not make UPJ international law. They only applied it to their common borders, Brazil for example did not apply UPJ to its borders.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There was no formal regional agreement on borders until the Congress of Lima 1847 - 1848. Argentina did not attend that Congress.
Occupation is a legitimate mode of establishing sovereignty when it's occupation of terra nullius. If a territory has an existing sovereign then it is not terra nullius. Occupation of a territory that has an existing sovereign goes into the realm of conquest/subjugation/annexation, a different mode of acquiring sovereignty.
Argentina never successfully controlled any part of the Falklands even before the US raid. In fact the first state to establish full effective control over the whole of the Falklands was the UK, and that was after 1833.
A territory that's never had a sovereign is terra nullius. For a territory with a sovereign to become terra nullius again it must be relinquished, abandonment is not enough.
Argentina has never claimed on the basis of terra nullius. A claim of terra nullius is incompatible with a claim of inheritance from Spain. The two are mutually exclusive.
@166
Jul 08th, 2013 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Occupation of a territory that has an existing sovereign goes into the realm of conquest/subjugation/annexation, a different mode of acquiring sovereignty.”
so are you saying the British occupied East Falkland under that premise?
Or are they saying it was abandoned by the Spanish in 1811?
“Argentina never successfully controlled any part of the Falklands even before the US raid”
..........Vernet did as Commander and Governor for BA
“..Vernet did as Commander and Governor for BA”
Jul 08th, 2013 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The appointment of Vernet was challenged by the British consul in Buenos Aires, who restated the previous British claim to the Islands. In response to the announcement of his appointment as Governor, Vernet stressed to the British that his interests were purely commercial. lol
@160think
Jul 08th, 2013 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”The wholes episode is surrounded by confusion and ambiguity……a clear case for a sovereignty dispute and conflicting claims. Most notable is that Spain have not claimed sovereignty impelling the argument that the islands were res nullius (without an owner) at the time of Argentinian colonisation.“
So, we are left with: when Think can't win an argument for ownership, it all ”ambiguous“.
”Sycophant“??
Ha ha, name-calling now. I must be getting under your skin.
Credit where credit is due, he nicely refuted your weak attempt. No need to say more.
It seems that whenever you are being pushed into a corner, you lash out with personal insults, misogynist remarks, calling people homosexuals because they have the temerity to challenge you, calling people willfully stupid for not understanding, or you simply avoiding answering.
Derision, a last resort hoping to intimidate your opponent into submission. I'm sure it works sometimes, but you don't like us giving each other encouragement, you know, like your public pantomime to your Sockies.
”The Idiot Brigade”, LOL.
Tell me who is the bigger idiot, the Yanks and Brits who question or refute your propagandist specious arguments and nasty goading provocations,
Or
Someone who despite a good education and knowledge of history, persists in denying historical facts, and defending the indefensible, a corrupt, fascist regime, and their ridiculous land claims and political stunts to keep themselves in power??
Your basic powers of reason are flawed and your posts fly in the face of reality.
We laugh at you.
@169
Jul 08th, 2013 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All those words and not one attempt to refute the argument
“calling people homosexuals because they have the temerity to challenge you”
What do you mean??? Where, when, who?
Derision was intended, as my comment refuted the application of “reductio ad absurdum”..... in logical fallacies.....
You confuse the 40 million Argentines with the Government and trash them all.....
You confuse the 40 million Argentines with the Junta of 30 years ago.....
You tar all South American countries with the same brush.....
Yes I will defend them against all the racists and bigots without any support or sycophants cheering me along.............I see no ships......
@170
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you any idea how many times these arguments have been refuted on here already?
The really comic thing is the persistent Malvinista belief that this is a dispute about who had the best claim in 1833, when in fact it's a dispute about who has the best claim in 2013. There is only one answer to that, and it is glaringly obvious.
And of course Arjuntina didn't even have the best claim in 1833 either.
@170 think
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Avoidance, denial, deflection ...
Same old, same old.
None of your arguments are new.
I don't remember seeing you win an argument convincingly.
You're just trotting them out again for the Larger Audience.
Typical Propaganda - Lie, relentlessly.
I 'think' you're “Comical Ali”
@171
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If that were true the UN wouldn't acknowledge a sovereignty issue and recommend negotiation......do you really believe that status quo will go on indefinitely?
Even Russia and China are claiming the status quo is not being adhered to whilst there is a dispute ............by the oil exploration. A storm is brewing that's for sure.
and the British claim to East Falkland in 1833 was no better.
“A storm is brewing that's for sure.” couldn't agree with you more, one hopes the normal non-nationalistic Argentinians aren't put thou the meat grinder, when “bingo wings” is finished with her term in office.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0haha Russia and china both colonial countries with much to fear, from self-determination. Havn't you heard of Tibet & the North Caucasus?.
@172
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course the UN recommends negotiation. It's like the Mothers Union recommending motherhood. Who could possibly be opposed to negotiations? (Apart from the junta in 1982, Nestor in the 90s, and Cristina now, that is).
As for Russia and China, which is more likely?
a) Russia and China are opposed to self-determination because of Tibet, Taiwan, and Chechnya inter alia (plus they probably cut some deal on agricultural prices)
b) Russia and China are outraged that Arjuntina's rapists and murderers were politely invited to sling their hook off somebody else's islands some two centuries ago.
@173
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is really scraping the barrel trumpeting the support of Russia/China. When you watch the Olympics from Socci, think of the Caucasians massacred and expelled. Think of all the other people living in Southern Russia. China, I don't need to mention Tibet, go camping 19 miles in India - now the Indians are quickly repaining their relationship with the USA. Think of the non ethnic Han. If you really think that pressure from other countries will affect UK, you don't know the history of the Troubles. You cannot get all your answers from Wikipaedia (as in a previous response on Shetland). Russia has just claimed the Arctic by putting a flag under the N Pole. This is the way Russia handles territorial disputes.
175 & 176. It's about bloody time to reform the C24 committee & start adding occupied territories that these 3rd world countries would hate to be on the list!.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0162 Simon68
Jul 08th, 2013 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would like to apologise to you, calling you an idiot @163.......there was no insult from you and I got a bit carried away.......
@153 A_Voice,
Jul 08th, 2013 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A good try at deflection but in fact no satisfactory answer at all.
l asked you for proof & when put on the spot, you say its just your opinion!
But you were so adamant about Argentina's ridiculous claims.
These supposed documents that have been presented to the UN.
Highly explosive, l'd say!
lf Argentina had ANY “rights” to South Georgia & had ANY proof at all, then l'm sure the world would have heard all about it by now!
l'm not calling you a liar but l will say that you handle the truth extremely carelessly.
Argentina has absolutely NO VALID CLAIM to South Georgia & you know it.
l think that we can discount anything you say on the subject from now on.
@179 Isolde
Jul 08th, 2013 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You came in @42 in reply to Think @22..going on about South Georgia
Then you came in @120 asking me “……..whats YOUR reasoning re Argentina's “claim” on South Georgia?”
RE ………???..I had never mentioned South Georgia it was Think……..I have never expressed an opinion of the RG's claim to South Georgia.
You were obviously confusing me with Think……….then you start telling him to butt out………….for goodness sake it was his conversation not mine!!
There is not enough info available for me to make an informed opinion on it. So I gave you my thoughts on the matter…….not Thinks and not proof.
What the hell do you want from me………either you are talking to me or him,
and you can certainly discount anything I say on South Georgia as I never broached the subject in the first place it was you.
You are a strange one.........you are obviously humouring me whilst believing you are talking to Think.
Either you need help.......or I do!
@171 HansNiesund: “Have you any idea how many times these arguments have been refuted on here already?”
Jul 08th, 2013 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think does, and that's a good reason for him to invent a new character to put forward the same old nonsense over and over again.
@170thinkVoice
Jul 08th, 2013 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You confuse the 40 million Argentines with the Government and trash them all.....
You confuse the 40 million Argentines with the Junta of 30 years ago.....
You tar all South American countries with the same brush.....
Yes I will defend them against all the racists and bigots without any support or sycophants cheering me along.............I see no ships......”
Are you trying to bait me by saying I have “confused” the 40m Argentinian people with the criminals in charge of the government that represents them?
That's the government that manipulates those people through propaganda and suppressing Freedom of the Press.
On the other hand, it is disturbing to say the least, that the “hated” Junta was awash with popular support (dancing in the streets etc.)
when they seized the island home of 3,000 peaceful and unarmed civilians.
Please tell me what “racists and bigots” are you “defending SA from?
Are we going to hear you bleating that ”it's not fair“, or ”they're all against us“, whoever ”us“ is?
I have to say, besides Conqueror, the only overt racism I've seen posted on MP comes from Think, Toby, and several other Trolls.
”Tar all SA with the same brush”?
No, that's BS and you know it. You must have been speaking while you were angry.
However, some of their governments show common characteristics, fascism, corruption, incompetence - Argentina and Venezuela spring to mind.
”On the other hand, it is disturbing to say the least, that the “hated” Junta was awash with popular support (dancing in the streets etc.) ”
Jul 08th, 2013 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah I was waiting for that one...dancing in the streets.
and you didn't witness the jingoist Brits watching the news and celebrating the sinking of the Belgrano........I did......
Then later after all the cheering had been done with and all the congratulations and laughing........as further news came out...........that it was full of young Argentine soldiers that had no choice in their deaths........then the mood changed.
It's easy to get caught up in victory........
This is how I remember it.......
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/features/frontpage/gotcha.html
183thinkvoice
Jul 09th, 2013 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Belgrano” - that was predictable. Shamelessly used as unwitting martyrs, now.
Whose fault was that, do you think?
“Easy to get caught up in victory” - yes, you are right, and SO unnecessary, right?
To give you credit, you seem to be saying that the Brits were not so euphoric when the realisation dawned on them that hundreds of Argentinian military, if not the entire ship's complement, died when the Belgrano went down.
Yet, your analogy is an odd one, as there was no such 'regret' from the Argentinian people about the theft of the civilian Falklands until it was clear that the Argentine military had lost and surrendered to the British.
Really two different things.
What racism and bigotry?
@183
Jul 09th, 2013 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Got any pics of delirious crowds like these in Trafalgar Square?
http://images.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&q=plaza+de+mayo+1982&oq=plaza+de+mayo+1982&gs_l=img.3...3112.14510.0.15633.24.19.3.2.1.0.478.4567.2-12j2j2.16.0....0...1ac.1.19.img.OjNpTU_O8-k&biw=1024&bih=672&sei=tKTbUcGvK4X7PMLjgagP
A_Voice,
Jul 09th, 2013 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ post # 180,
“There is not enough info available for me to make an informed opinion”.
@ post # 153,
”These relics(of the British Empire, i.e. specifically South Georgia)should be given to the nearest country”
(what a surprise, that would be, let me guess, Argentina!).
@ post # 128,
“ Dependency it was & dependency it STILL is”. etc etc, blah blah.
“When the UK has the inevitable fire sale then South Georgia is on the table” or words to that effect.
And then you tell me that you cannot make an “informed opinion”?
You have already made up your mind that these British territories belong to Argentina!
But STILL you offer NO PROOF!that they do!
Wishing does not make it so, señor.
Yes,the UK WILL share in the riches of Antarctica.
And yes, the UK WILL use South Georgia & the Falklands as bases to do this.
And guess what?
There is nothing that the wouldbe Argentine Empire can do about it.(except perhaps gnash their teeth, wring their hands & moan, moan & moan to anyone who will listen).
We were prepared to cut you in on some of the action, but you know, Dear old Nestor tore up our agreements.
You made your bed, sleep on it.
@ 183 A_Voice
Jul 09th, 2013 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can remember hearing the first reports of the sinking of the Belgrano, and feeling sorry for those on board.
However Argentina and the UK were at war and Argentina had been warned, via the Swiss, that any perceived threat to British assets would be dealt with appropriately, regardless of where they were.
As Argentina had already authorized “Operation Algeciras” it is quite evident that they were prepared to strike at UK assets wherever they could find them. They however claim that a strike against a warship on its way to engage UK assets is a 'war crime', give me a break.
Just suppose that the Belgrano had found UK assets and destroyed, or even damaged one of them, I am willing to bet that the Captain and crew would have been hailed as heroes. Anyone disagree with me?
RG's, as usual, are bunch of two timing, back-stabbing losers!
187. biguggy.
Jul 09th, 2013 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've always found the Argentinian claims that the Belgrano was a war crime, funny as fuck. It just the fact that Argentinians, have no real idea of what war is.
I found a pdf somewhere online about a meeting with all the US players in this drama, defence, state, etc. And all of them kept saying “Argentina had no idea what was going to happen to them & they didn't know what war was”. over and over.
Bit of a sad thing, when a military has more experience killing its own people. then fighting a war!.
Think has successfully diverted this thread away from the subject.
Jul 09th, 2013 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He has raised several old arguments and charges that have raised before and defeated and refuted successfully several times.
@ A_Voice
Jul 09th, 2013 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just what is/are the possible outcome(s) of the 'negotiations' that the RG's want to undertake with the UK?
@186 Isolde
Jul 09th, 2013 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can see that English is not your first language…..American?…..perhaps you should think about what I say…….
“There is not enough info available for me to make an informed opinion”.
Here I'll help you……
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_meaning_of_informed_opinion
as opposed to an opinion
Btw…..“You made your bed, sleep on it.”
I prefer……
You've made your bed now lie in it
When Yanks, as they often do, say………
……….and guess what?
or ……Do you know what?
my answer is always…….how could I possibly guess what you are going to say?
@189
Well he sits up there on his leatherette
And looks through posts that he hasn't seen yet
When he posts he always writes some shite
I ridicule, embarrass him and make him bite!
(He's typing)
(He's typing)
(He's typing)
(He's typing)
You've never even won an argument, honey
You can't beat me in a spar
You yearn for something you can't do, darlin'
You're never ever gonna' be, up to par
@190
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_meaning_of_informed_opinion
@191 A_Voice
Jul 09th, 2013 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I suspected - rubbish. It is no wonder the UK does not wish to waste its time 'negotiating'. There is nothing to negotiate.
@192
Jul 09th, 2013 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you really expect me to know the minds of the Argentine Govt?
Canadians......no sense of humour!
@193thinkvoicedover
Jul 09th, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“
Canadians......no sense of humour!”
Malvinistas... not humourists.
BTW, thanks for all the little 'love songs', do you need my attention that badly?
@193
Jul 09th, 2013 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes you should.
Everyone knows the minds of the Falkland Islanders, so if the Argentines want to negotiate, yet have a pre-determined objective in their constitution, we want to know how they could 'negotiate'?-You should know if you agree with them.
I know what the position of the UK government is-talks can happen if the people who live on the Islands are present.
The Argentines do not want to negotiate-it is a smoke screen-they are an Imperialist nation and want the islands as a colony-but they cannot be honest enough to admit it.
If their armed forces get stronger-they will invade again-simple as that.
To all Turnips in general.....
Jul 09th, 2013 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just remembered this “pearls” from Canadian Turnip “ Mr. Troy Tempest”...... disrespecting and misusing the ~50 fatal victims of a rail accident to smear the Argentinean Administration…..:
”A railway, properly constructed and maintained, is a very efficient way to move people and goods. Too bad it does not work for you, anymore. It is the fault of the government, nobody else.”
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/02/23/massive-and-emotive-ceremony-to-remember-victims-of-buenos-aires-worst-train-accident#comment220743
”Your country 's government is irresponsible causing money loss and passenger deaths. Be 'intellectually honest' and - Stop apologising for them.”
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/02/23/massive-and-emotive-ceremony-to-remember-victims-of-buenos-aires-worst-train-accident#comment220743
Wonder if that Turnip ”Thinks” the same about the Lac-Megantic accident and its ~50 fatal victims …..
Ha ha,Thinkvoicedover
Jul 09th, 2013 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know you went to a lot of trouble consulting your MT “Multi-Troll” software and database, to look everything up, but what does this have to do with The Falklands and Dick Sawle?
:-)
@191 A_Voice,
Jul 09th, 2013 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well you have got one thing correct, English was not my first language. l would say it was my third.
l'll rephrase my requests as l can see you are quite good at wriggling & avoiding direct questions.
btw-have you ever considered a career in politics?
1)
So, can/will you offer ANY proof that South Georgia belongs to Argentina?
2)
lf you cannot, then why do you feel that South Georgia belongs to Argentina?
There, that should be a simple enough task for you.
You normally have much to say, so lets hear it from you.
FYI, I am not American although l do have friends, associates, business partners & relatives in that country.
Anything else you would like to know?
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