MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
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Venezuela and Nicaragua prepared to offer ‘humanitarian asylum’ to Snowden
Presidents Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua and Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela said Friday they were willing to grant asylum to NSA leaker Edward Snowden. The NSA whistleblower has asked for asylum in several countries, including Nicaragua and Venezuela. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesHumanitarian asylum????
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ah, another made up type of asylum that isn't actually recognised in international law.
Snowden's fecked.
These counties only 'offer' if the 'right' circumstances are met, mostly that he has to get to them.
So isn't Maduro the guy who says he keeps lists of ordinary citizens who don't vote for him. And ppl come town to town removing ppl from jobs, supposedly because of this list? And he's arming up to million ppl against Students?
Jul 06th, 2013 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0uh, real trade up.
Congratulations Edward, you now get to spend the rest of your life in either the second poorest country in the Americas, or a country where you can't get toilet paper. Bravo !
Jul 06th, 2013 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Hate to disappoint you but there is such a thing as “humanitarian asylum”. At least, it's recognised by the United States. You can find it in TITLE 8 OF CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS (8 CFR) 8 CFR PART 208
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-11261/0-0-0-14927/0-0-0-15161.html
However, as I read it, there still has to be a fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. Don't see how Maduro is going to justify that. Or are we supposed to accept that any criminal fleeing justice, and Snowden is a criminal, gets to claim “humanitarian asylum” because he/she is being “persecuted” by being subject to arrest and prosecution? The place for Snowden is in a US court where he can justify his actions before a judge and jury. Still, Maduro is “new” and he probably wants to prove his anti-American “credibility”. Not sure what Ortega's beef is. The US appears to give Nicaragua a lot of aid, over US$1.2 billion since 1990.
@4 Conqueror
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0My bad.
And as you say, Snowden is a criminal, and therefore shouldn't be entitled to asylum any more than Assange is.
These tinpot pseudo-dictators believe that these types of incidents improves their standing in the world. It doesn't, it only improves their standing among other dictatorships, not among the majority of the world.
Venezuela, Nicaragua, Russia and China - pillars of freedom and democracy. LOL.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's a wonder that the Botox Queen hasn't made Snowden and offer...
Foot?
Jul 06th, 2013 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Meet Gun...
One has to greet Europe for uniting us even more. With enemies like that...
Jul 06th, 2013 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Snowden is on everybodys lips, but when the storm passes the question will stand. What does the common European think of being spied on by its “ally”?
:)
@8
Jul 06th, 2013 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, South America isn't united on this, have you not noticed that very little has been said by the Pacific Alliance countries and Paraguay, they are keeping their heads down.
They sensibly know that when the dust settles on all of this and people like Snowdon and Assange just fade into history, things like trade exports and feeding your people will become the priority again.
Countries like Venezuala, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina and to a lessor extent Brazil may find they have burnt some very important bridges.
Oh, everyone spies on each other, Washington DC is full of spies from all over the world, its a fact of life. Europe will gloss of the spy issue, because WE are no better or worse than anyone else.
When will CFK send Tango 1 to get Snowden.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe Tango 1 is welcome everywhere, as long as it lands.
There is an almost touching naivety from some SoAm contributors. Like adolescents realising the grown-ups world is not how they imagined it. I wonder if they know there is no Santa Claus or Malvinas?
Jul 06th, 2013 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 Stevie
Jul 06th, 2013 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If S America is what you call “Unity”, then the word clearly has a different meaning to you than to us. S America trying to throw its weight around is only going to get it slapped back into its pram, on the world stage, small fish big pond with much bigger fish around.
The “common European” would have been amazed if he/she were not being spied on. Companies like Google monitor what you do on the net, to “better target advertising”.
If GCHQ were not doing that, then somebody should be shot for incompetence.
I don’t think you can have any reasonable expectation of privacy on the net, do you?
As for spying on allies, everybody spies on everybody else, the golden rule about having no rules, is don’t get caught.
I would be happy if Snowden ended up in Venezuela with the food shortages, car jackings and the highest murder rate in the hemisphere.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The dumbest thing he could do is to give up his citizenship
then
Accidents happen
which saves a lot of court costs
4 Conqueror . As always you explain the legal position clearly and factually . No discussion now . I refer , of course , to those who read ( and more important ) understand English .
Jul 06th, 2013 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 011 Elaine B . Fully agree . They live in a world far removed from reality .
I presume the point now is , how do they get him to Venezuela ? Submarines ?
All you posters above. Wake up!
Jul 06th, 2013 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Imagine you have a handy system where you can search for dirt on anyone through their communications. Criticize or compete against the government and its big business puppet masters and guess what happens?!
@14
Jul 06th, 2013 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is that with all the hoo haa generated with the concentration on Morales Jet, they used it as a smoke screen and got him to South America by a different route.
South Americans are the masters of duplicity and deflection are they not?
16. It is pretty hard to get to SA from Russia without overflying one of our client-states.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 I hope so. Any of the Bolivarian governments living in the past will crow about housing a fugitive. So desperate for attention they won't realise they are holding a poisoned chalice.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are like the stupid kid at the back of the class going 'nah,nah,na,na,nah' at the teacher but not realising they have wet their pants and that is why everyone is laughing.
16 ,17 and 18 . I agree with you all . It is a poisoned chalice . Julian Assange who will rot in the Ecuador Embassy ! Get him to Caracas without going over , or under , a “ normal ” country will be difficult . I await future developments with great interest !
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19 And the point is, no one has to do anything but wait, and wait, and wait. The children will soon get bored of the new toy they never really understood how to play with.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Snowden now has to be asking himself, what did I get myself into. New Zealand (who's brassed off at the US Justice department hasn't offered him a chance to housesit for Kim DotCom), no liberal democracy wants him. Hepatia may be right in that Snowden blew a weak load if intel at the PRC and has demonstrated he has nothing to purchase assylym with there. I suspect that Russia is now finding out the same. Now all he has are a bunch of petty LATAM ditocracies that only want him for petty validation against the big bad Nortes who themselves have a record of spying and intimidating people and those who speak to power find that power shoot back there. It's sad to be wanted by only a__h____.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 018elaineB
Jul 06th, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“They are like the stupid kid at the back of the class going 'nah,nah,na,na,nah' at the teacher but not realising they have wet their pants and that is why everyone is laughing.”
LOL, what an analogy !!
You crack me up.
:-)
... @18/22 Or everyone finally realizing why said students don't want to stand up.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17
Jul 06th, 2013 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who needs to know he is on board? Fake passports are easy enough to come by, he could be a Ukranian named Hector by now and have lived in South America for 3 generations.
It is all easily done.
Britworker
Jul 06th, 2013 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0United we stand, you see, there are two kind of people in this mess.
Morales.
And inmorales.
;)
@25
Jul 06th, 2013 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh you are full of morality, I was just thinking that South America is so full of morals, that's why they kindly rehomed so many Nazi's. you are truly benevolent with your kindness.
@8 Do you understand the term “gang”. It's generally related to a number of criminals with a “common purpose”. Seems to describe much of LatAm. By definition and by example, argieland, bolivia, ecuador, possibly peru, are criminal. They are a “group”. Therefore, a “gang”.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As to your second “part”. I don't do anything illegal. Therefore I have nothing to fear. Could you say the same?
@14 I am obliged to you. It is refreshing to meet someone who actually reads and comprehends. LatAm simply cannot be permitted to continue to LIE and throw its CHILDISH weight around. What do you do with a misbehaving brat? You give it a short, sharp slapdown. When a child tries to throw its weight around, you show it that you have more weight and are prepared to use it. Obviously, there are rules. But for LatAm, the only “rules” are theirs. That they make up as they go along.
I do wish people would understand. “Appeasement” is NOT an option. Did we not learn that in the 30s? You don't “negotiate” with the amoral. When they threaten you, you tell them what you can do to them. Argieland likes to threaten the UK with inapplicable UN GA resolutions together with other meaningless organisations like mercosur or unasur. What does that matter to the UK? Argieland conducts an economic war against the Falkland Islands in breach of the UN Charter. So why shouldn't a Brit tell argies that they can be wiped off the face of the planet? It's not as though argieland serves any useful purpose. It STEALS. It LIES. It CHEATS. It MURDERS. And how are these useful attributes? And what has it done for the planet? It started a war that resulted in around a thousand deaths. It made homosexuality legal. No doubt, in a few years, it will be compulsory. There are a few, a very few, Argentines worthy of being considered “human”. Simon68 is an example. For the rest, do we consider them “sub-humans” or “animals”?
@26 not to mention countries where is a crime to leak correct inflation statistics. Transparency is always for the other guy. Snowden's true principles, like Assange's, will be showing should he take refuge in countries where dissent couldn't be further from the highest form of patriotism.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0conq
Jul 06th, 2013 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the scratch from your wrath, I'll put soil and sow :)
Venezuela and Nicaragua
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mmmmmmmmmm
I actually agree with both of them,
Perhaps they could cut him in half and both have a piece,
Besides the Americans will have a field day,
Their secret services will get good exercise,
This man will never be able to turn his back to far.
.
Snowdon has been completetly trolled by Assange, could have sorted out a reasonable deal initially, once Wikileaks got involved his outs evaporated, and now he is left with the choice between 2 shitholes.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 015. Imagine you have a handy system where you can search for dirt on anyone through their communications. Criticize or compete against the government and its big business puppet masters and guess what happens?!
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The above sounds a lot like Argieland!!!!!
Why dont these guys find asylum first,, then spill the beans,
Jul 06th, 2013 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0surley its less trouble .lol
Yankee turnip at (17) shows, once again, that proverbial Yankee geographical ignorance.....
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He says...:
“ It is pretty hard to get to SA from Russia without overflying one of our client-states.”
I say...:
Q...: how many Countries do you have to overfly, if travelling from the Pacific east coast of Russia to South-America?
A...: None.
What a Turnip!
#31 I agree. assange exploited another moron for his moments of glory. At least correa shut him up. HE has to fear that ecuador will soon tire of this game they play.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It still remains to be seen is chief morales played a role in snowden's moveement. Perhaps they plan was to get him to La Paz, get a bus and maduro drives him to caracas.
Do you know nothing of how private jets fly?
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you map it out for us but leave off every county that we are aligned with and the USA.
You are an idiot.
Quite Possibly retarded.
Once again for the Yankee turnip at (36)..........:
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Question...: How many Countries do you have to overfly, if travelling from the Pacific coast of Russia to South-America?
Answer...: None
and where will they refuel? Hawaii?
Jul 06th, 2013 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yankee Turnip at (38)
Jul 06th, 2013 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Refuelling ???
What are you talking about ???
The “Lindbergh” era is long gone, Yankee !!!
The distance between Magadan (Russia) and Caracas (Venezuela) is about 7,000 miles (or 11,000 kilometres).
Easily covered by any of Russian Aeroflot’s many Ilyushin IL96’s, Airbus A330’s or Boeing 777’s …..
What a Turnip!
I knoew you were going to come back with something as stupid as that post!!
Jul 06th, 2013 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You think they'll send a 777!!!
you must be f'cking with me
bahahahahaa
retard
This may be good news for Snowden.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yankee turnip at (40)
Jul 06th, 2013 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully not a 777
American crappy quality....
Your struggling again yankeeboy.We can see through you.Losing your composure is not good.Please visit SA and let's see the real you.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 042. Yeah OK, tell me what wide body jets are made in SA that compete with it again? I seem to have forgotten.
Jul 06th, 2013 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Retard
33 . Like it ! It would so simplify things . Go to a country , obtain refuge and then spill the beans !
Jul 07th, 2013 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it is elena......it's like Stalin saying good news, you aare not going to a gulag, you are going to Siberia.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 046 That isn´t true at all, Venezuela´s climate is a lot nicer than Siberia´s that alone is good news for Mr Snowden ;-)
Jul 07th, 2013 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think #42, Come to Think of it KFCs aircraft Tango One (which she cannot use to go to any first world country for fear of it being impounded for non payment of debts), is a Boeing 757 !!! Horrors! Is this 'crappy quality' too Turnip? Where are you going to get an aircraft 100% made in Argenina?
Jul 07th, 2013 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Will that get impounded too?
On a different note, why don't you, Marcos, Toby and the other trolls take a trip to South Georgia. They are currently culling all the rats and could take care of you lot too...
I have been pondering on how they would facilitate him leaving Russia and travelling to the land of the duplicitous and the free.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems to me that, much in the same way they mooted the subject of providing Assange with a diplomatic passport, they might do the same for him.
Which would of course, in their eyes and the eyes of some on here, be totally legal.
Though I am not sure?
#36
Jul 07th, 2013 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The distance from Magadan to Caracas -westwards -as used by all airlines is 7140 miles. Include two stops.
Flying eastwards it is approx. 9667 miles, avoiding the American Aleutian islands.
Max range of IL-92 with no reserves is 9720 miles--a non -starter..
Max range of Airbus 330-200 with no reserves is 9200 miles.
Non starter.
Max. range of 777-200LR is 11264 miles. A distinct possibility.
Where would the Russians or Venezuelans get hold of this aircraft ? Who would be mad enough to attempt this route knowing that in an emergency they would have to divert to the USA ?
Do you actually check your facts before posting ?
The above information is easily accessed through the aircraft manufacturer's web-sites.
“Hopefully not a 777
American crappy quality...”.
I suppose that American crappy quality is why the world's airlines buy these aircraft reluctantly, because Argentina's aircraft industry - an oxymoron - is too busy building world beating advanced “trainers”.
Awaiting your usual vegetable weighted reply changing the subject.
Clyde, Think doesn't need facts since he is Argentine.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If he wasn't such a di*k I would feel bad making fun of him all the time due to his obviously limited mental capacity.
What can you say about the Boing Aircraft Co?
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know what Aorbus and Embraer would say:
“I wish we had their order book.”
Boing have bee making great aircraft since the days of the great old 707 still flying in civilian and military variant. Long they continue to do so, aviation needs them. They are the modern yardstick.
On the subject of the recent 777 crash landing, thankfuly so far only two life's have been lost and I hope it stays that way.
The aircraft only just made the threshold of SF International. It was either a fabulous piece of airmanship or pilot error, no doubt we will learn the facts in due course.
51 yankeeboy
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But, as usual, by waiting for The Suicide In Waiting to keep pushing his ridiculous claims he falls into the hole he dug for himself (and for @43 Yuleno who I must admit it a knob head anyway).
Don’t these stupid, stupid people EVER learn: apparently NO!
LOLs
Yul is a old commie and is happy that collective farms are finally coming to Argentina in his lifetime. I hope he is the 1st to be “recruited” to work on them.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think posts stuff that is so delusional only an Rg could understand the logic. Like Toby, Guzz et al they'll stick to their beliefs no matter how many facts prove them wrong. Rgs are not a smart people.
and No they'll never learn.
I hope he choses Venezual. In my minds eye, I can see the reception he will receive.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Plane taxis up to the red carpet, the door opens and he steps out to the flurry of a thousand blue birds being released. As tha the massed bands play the Star Spangled Banner.
Rank upon rank of crack troops in their lovely French red berets, faces painted in their distinct Red, Blue and Yellow cammy cream, with the white stars of course. Shit for concealing yourself in a jungle, but an absolute must for a state occasion.
Maduro steps forward and hands him a copy of the little blue book, Oh yeah! I was forgetting and a roll of soft toilet paper!
#49 RC.....someone will wave their magic wand, then sprinkle pixie (Morales) dust on snowden and he will become an honorary citizen of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is the roll an annual ration?
Cap.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, it is merely a stop gap measure until they can equip his luxury new residence with a Bidet.
You have seen them? they are on sale in B&Q (large British hardware chain of stores) just ignore the label that says, “ Garden Sprinkler.”
Turnip at (50)
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) The distance between Magadan or, even better,Petropavlovsk, to Caracas, flying over the Pacific, south of the Aleutian Islands, over Clipperton Island, over friendly Nicaraguan territory and the Caribbean Sea would be ~ 8,600 miles….
Easy task for any of Aeroflot’s six Ilyushin 96’s, twenty-two Airbus 330’s or four Boeing 777’s……
Don’t you believe me?…… Check it !…....
http://www.google.com/earth/index.html
2) ”Where would the Russians or Venezuelans get hold of this aircraft ?”…. you ask.
Well….. If I was Russian....., I would start with AEROFLOT, my own National Airline.....
http://www.google.com/earth/index.html
3) Hopefully not a 777……
At the same time I was saying that to Turnip Fred Bates from Watchington DC, one 777 was crashing at San Francisco Airport.
Crappy quality indeed…..
Oh dear me what does this article say about ASIANA.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/Worst-Airline-Safety-Ratings-Revealed/360481
RC lol.....he is American and we are not users of bidet's, generally speaking. They are big down south, perhaps he will think it's a water fountain for short people.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes stink crappy quality made them the munber seller of jets wordwide.......brilliant analysis. Tell me stink, does you brain have anything beyond motor skills? Perhaps aerolinas argentina should rid themselves of their quite large fleet of 737-700's to prove your point.
Bahahahahahahaha
Stink the thinkless troll.
Maybe you should read this if you can translate it?
http://news.yahoo.com/plane-engines-not-fault-asiana-crash-ceo-073731574.html
I know.......Boeing paid the CEO to trash his own airline!!
@33 Isn't that a bit difficult? When you claim asylum you have to show that you are being persecuted. If you haven't yet done what will get you “persecuted”, you won't have a claim. Mind you, it doesn't matter if you approach many LatAm countries. Any one that thinks it will cause a problem for UK or USA.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34 Really? Got one of those new aircraft that don't need refuelling, have you? You're starting from Moscow. Curiously, after you get past Russia, Mongolia and China, choices are pretty limited. Japan, South Korea, Papua New Guinea, Australia, New Zealand.
@39 You're not in the airline industry, are you? Check the following sound effect. Whistle, plop, glug, glug, glug. That's the sounds as an IL96 goes into a glide after its fuel runs out, the plop is when it drops on to the water. Most aircraft don't float too well. The IL96 has a range of about 6,000 miles. This is because it has to take into account such minor matters as storms that it might have to fly around. The Pacific Ocean is quite well known for storms. Then there's headwinds. Traffic delays?
@47 Can he swim? Might be quite important.
@48 The only SoAm commercial aircraft manufacturer I can find is Embraer. And they don't do anything that big!
@58 Just how many nationalities do you have? You keep “reporting” your residence in Chubut and now, all of a sudden, “your” own National Airline is AEROFLOT!
@59 Not quite sure what you're trying to say. Looks to me as though Asiana has an excellent safety record. So far I've seen two “suggestions”. “There is talk of Pyongyang having a role in the crash especially since the flight originated in China.” The implication being that North Korea did something to the aircraft. The other suggestion is that the aircraft came in too short and hit the seawall. The ILS for the relevant runway (28L) is apparently out of service.
Three pilots with 10,000 flying hours. Unlikely to be pilot error, but you never know. Still there is no wonder they managed to get it down.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A snag could be the problem, but most airlines today have built in back up, back up system, apart from some mechanical features. No matter how modern you get, fuel is still going to have to flow through pipes, birds ingested into the engines can damage them etc, etc, etc.
Be interesting to see what the actual cause was?
As I said earlier, many factual posts refuting his claims he still thinks he's right
Jul 07th, 2013 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not a smart one
Plus who's paying for the 777, and it can't be any company that ever wants to land in the USA.
idiot all around
My kid brother is just like him, show him a piece of white paper and the irritating shit (my brother that is) will insist and believe it is black?
Jul 07th, 2013 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 056 Captain Poppy
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Is the roll an annual ration?”
No, it's a life long award, which in Snowden's case is the US spooks get hold of him won't be very long.
To his point ICBMs exist too. Snowden has as much of a chance of a 777 picking him up as getting strapped to one of those.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is just being Argentine, just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean it's practically possible.
Its the same reason they have a currency crisis every decade.
Everyone thinks it is all going swimmingly, won't admit reality then one day it all goes to he** an they can't figure out why.
Over and over
over and over
not a smart people
Can you imagine what would happen in a civilized country if bread went up 900% in just over a decade?
and a Big Mac cost 2% of the avg monthly wage!
It is a dangerous combination of apathy and stupidity.
Nah, as the yanks would say, it's just one asswipe, saying hello to another asswipe.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(-:@
“Snowden, who is wanted by the U.S. for leaking information about a number of secret U.S. espionage plans ...”
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I image all the 'fluff' above, and in other posting comment, is designed to distract people from investigating the plans themselves.
Does anybody know what these 'secret U.S. espionage plans' are?
Anybody fancy chatting about them?
Geoff
Jul 07th, 2013 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is your problem with the odious nature of spying. Please tell me that you did not know that it went on?
Yes geoff, the core is to prevent your allies, the taliban and al quada from being successful and that really bothers you doesn't it. The rest is spy v. spy shit.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 061 Conqueror
Jul 07th, 2013 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks
You have a good point..
.
Geoff#
Jul 07th, 2013 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The point is some posters want to take every thread to the place where they want it to go.Then they feel good about themselves.What they don't like is sticking to the subject and them feeling inadequate.
Take yankeeboy for example,Think got him going on the point about the feasibility of a non-stop flight from Russia to SA.
Yankeeboy throws in the price of bread to deflect matters.Totally unrelated to the point that Snowden has gone from being friendless to 4 countries offering asylum.
These people won't discuss what revelations Snowden has made because they can't support the fact that it is indefensible morally.
And I don't think they are capable of thinking for themselves and the USA is not defending its actions but merely trying to shut Snowden up
Yuleno
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How is this deviating from the story, the guy was a spy. Probably got paid well for spying until he betrayed his country!
Nothing to discuss about this creep, he's a traitor.
If he was a Brit wevwould want him back too!
Yuleno
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are quite right, deflection is a tool used repeatedly by Think, Think sock puppets, TTT (Toby) and his guises.
And yes, Yankeeboy does repeatedly refer to food, monetary, and commodity shortages in Argentina - a reminder and illustration that regardless of all the carping about “the West”, the UK, and the Falklands, it is an even bigger Argentine government deflection from the very dire problems that regular Argentines are facing.
BTW, are you a moron, isn't it reasonable for the US to want to arrest a treasonous criminal fugitive who is compromising their national security?
It's a bit late to “shut him up”, now. He won't be 'falling' out of a helicopter or 'disappearing' like some government opponents in Argentina or other SA Dictatorships.
I wonder who will win the Bolivarian Lottery?
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Suppose we will have wait and see which one of them takes the lead from their Argentinian brothers and mints a coin with his head on it!
Does anybody know what these 'secret U.S. espionage plans' are?
Jul 07th, 2013 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently, he revealed them, so somebody should know!
Anybody fancy letting me know?
Geoff, did he actually get to specifics? I thought he made some general 'revelations' with the promise of more to come.
Jul 07th, 2013 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#58 (Not very knowledgeable person)
Jul 07th, 2013 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will go along with your simplistic flight distance of 8600 miles.
Initially I looked at all variants of the aircraft and took those with the absolute longest range. Aeroflot does not fly these models. So. I took the performance figures of the actual aircraft they fly.
Your quoted aircraft ranges disagree with that of Aeroflot. Maybe you should apply for a job as flight route manager as you can make their aircraft fly further than THEY can !
Look up Aeroflot's web site
http://www.aeroflot.com/cms/en/flight/plane_park
This gives you their current fleet.
IL-92 10,000 km range 6300 miles....splash
Airbus 330 10500 km range 6700 miles....splash
Boeing 777 range 14500 km 9100 miles..do I hear a splash ?
Aircraft are also required to have adequate fuel reserves in case of emergencies.
I used Google Earth initially trying to approximate the Pacific organised tracks. How kind of you to let us all know about Google Earth ! I presume you thought that you alone knew about this facility.
It may surprise you but you have to file flight plans even when crossing the Atlantic and Pacific and follow pre-designated “highways ”in the sky. You can ask for pre determined tracks and times and changes in flight may be allowed if safe to do so. Guess who controls the half way point ? The good old USA.
So your IL-92 would attempt the flight with virtually no diversion available and pushing its range and gliding the last section of the flight with no safety margins. These maximum ranges quoted are in ideal conditions; headwinds, weather diversions and engine or technical problems can affect this. The same applies for the 777 and A330
You also have to deal with air traffic control. You cannot launch your civil aircraft anywhere you wish to the danger of other traffic.
More to the point, why would Russia get involved in this problem. They might need a favour from Uncle Sam on the diplomatic front themselves.
Yulena.....you seem top have a problem with a nation looking to prosecute a treasonist by their countries own laws, but have no problem with your leaders fining real economist for publishing real inflation data. What would happen if they committed treason......they would go for a ride in a green falcon, then a one way helo ride?
Jul 07th, 2013 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Talk about morals, the mad cunt of argentina steals, but you commie pukes smile and look the other way. Why do you commies embrace poverty so much?
'Does anybody know what these 'secret U.S. espionage plans' are?
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently, he revealed them, so somebody should know!'
' he made some general 'revelations' with the promise of more to come.'
Come on, guys!
Somebody must know if he actually did reveal any secrets.
Building up to make a point geoff? You've asked to same question in several posts. The question is irrelevant with respect to his actions.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Geoff#
Jul 08th, 2013 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you can see from 81#,some people think that a friend hacking into their computor network to exploit them by such methods,is less important than falling into a trap they imagine has been set for them.
One can only conclude that their purpose posting is to enhance their ego and not to enter a discussion in which they enhance their knowledge.
Take yankeeboy for example.I wouldn't anticipate any further comment on this thread from him.He has already had to try to deflect the discussion from the feasibility of the offers of asylum being practical,and therefore,genuine to the price of bread in Argentina over the last 10years.
(And yes I am trying to provoke him to respond knowing he won't )
Yul, You never answered my question, are you happy about the coming collective farms?
Jul 08th, 2013 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you going to be the first to sign up?
Talking about the price of bread at 900% higher in just over a decade is much more fun for me than the idiotic ramblings of a delusional, most likely demented poster, on how a 777 can get to SA from Russia without overflying a US client state.
His answer diagonally across the Pacific of course.
OK idiot
Proved impossible with stats, but ok its somehow possible based on mileage and fuel capacity not any other factors ( those are inconvenient) and in his pea brain we are still all wrong.
Funny thing about open comments anyone can post anything they want regardless of the topic.
Oh the horror!
yulena......do you practice being stupid, becuase you perfected it. Exploited? lol...sure....right.....a poor cmmie talking exploitation. Please prove that or state it is your simple opinion.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0yulena you never answered my question: why do commies such as you and the blovarian movement embrace poverty over opportunity?
Why do you commies prefer handouts over self suffiency and independence?
Well well,Yankeeboy is sensitive.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Both Ecuador and Venezuela have made it clear they will consider granting asylum to Snowden if he can reach their territory - embassy or border - under his own steam. Russia will not let him in because they want to be able to say we don't allow citizens of NATO countries to reside in Russian and attack their homeland, why are NATO countries not returning the curtesy. The USA is the only country willing to issue him with travel papers and that is for a journey home.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unless the situation changes he better get used to airport fast food.
Yul, Your reading comprehension is pretty poor if that is what you took away from than post.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again, Are you happy collective farms are coming to Argentina?
Yankee that old commie hates to answer point blank questions because he cannot. Poor guy......put him out to pasture in Siberia for old times sake and he can think of the good old days.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Does anybody know what these 'secret U.S. espionage plans' are?
Jul 08th, 2013 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently, he revealed them, so somebody should know!'
' he made some general 'revelations' with the promise of more to come.'
'Come on, guys! Somebody must know if he actually did reveal any secrets.'
I take it, guys, that NONE of you actually KNOW if any secrets were revealed. Or, if so, what they were.
A lot of people here turn out to be just trolls,
trying desperately to avoid discussion of the substantive questions,
uninterested in the issues that are posed..
Yes, It could be you.
O’Globo saying that the US National Security Agency has been monitoring the telephone and e-mail activity of Brazilian companies and individuals as part of US espionage activities.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You've read that article Geoff and you want someone to be explicit in these times?
#91
Jul 08th, 2013 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How in God's name would anyone on this forum know WHAT information he has at his disposal. Rumours, made -up “facts” posted on spurious websites are about as much as we can get.
Conjecture and “educated guesswork” are the stock-in-trade of sites like this. However, it can be entertaining !
geoff you really need to know? They are using algorithms on metadata. I told you before. After mining that datasets, they use algorithms to to look for simular matches and only then do they drill further into the data.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spying and data mining is not the same and if you think it is, you are more simple in your thinking than you allow us all to see.
Aparently he know how many toilet rolls they have .. lol
Jul 08th, 2013 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am hearing through inside links that snowden is already in SA.......highly suspect as to being on Caracas.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, my toilet roll algorithm is freely available on the internet.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have a very close and dear young PhD friend who produces algorithms for the financial sector. These are sophisticated and powerful ... but they are merely 'tools' of analysis.
What we should be asking is what Snowdon revealed -- the tools? or the details of the specific investigations? The latter is what I have been asking about.
Both would be considered 'state secrets', but the latter is more directly embarrassing when governments/democracies deploy them against their own people (friends(?)) and those elsewhere (enemies).
Believe me, we are talking WAY beyond 'the threat of terrorism'. ...
the minutae of our total way of life, and all those investigations, pecadillos and minor deviations: and, like most other people, I have had plenty in my time.
I am by no means as lay-back about it all as Elaine professes to be; but perhaps she has lived a saintly, closed-order life.
Geoff, you seem to know a lot about this being that this is way beyond the threat of terrorism. So......developed countries spy on one another for various reason. Right, wrong or indifferent it is a fact of life in as much as breathing it. But again do not confusing actual field operations with data mining.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My point exactly,
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but it can still look the same, with both field operations and data mining taking place from the same terminal.
Forget it Geoff. You are dealing with right wing neoliberals who have a lifestyle rather than morals to protect.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have to agree with tobers on this matter Geoff.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is significant is that the offended friends of the USA,the injured parties,are toeing the line,keeping a low profile and not accounting to any electorate.
It is evident that Internet censureship is not the exclusive domain of China.Or that these global organisation that have flourished in the age of the Internet are as user friendly as they claim to be.
Open source looks like a minority activity which only exists with the blessing of global capitalism.How frequent are media blackouts on certain issue and how rigorously are they observed.And still we have people thinking democracy is a non class issue.
Yankeeboy#
While you are concerned about the price of bread in Argentina can you perhaps also discuss the cost of wheat globally and how it has contributed to the economy of the USA in the last ten years,or perhaps we can stick to the articles mercopress provides and be less narrow minded?
9 Britworker: Brazil refused to answer Snowden's request. So which bridge is being burned down!? Mate, seriously, before posting read some articles about Brazil's official statements. You can read any news website you want: BBC, any London based news corp., etc... It doesn't matter.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yulena.....read and ponder you morals;
Jul 08th, 2013 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://finance.yahoo.com/news/snowden-takes-asylum-venezuela-staggering-183848051.html
“For a taste of that, check out an article over at Boing Boing by Isabel Lara, a D.C. resident with dual U.S.-Venezuelan citizenship. Lara describes how a 2009 phone call to her mother, Maruja Tarre, was broadcast on state television because her mother was a critic of the Chavez government. The phone call was aired under the title ”Anger, Grief and Frustration in Opposition Provoked by Failure of Anti Chavez Demonstration.”
Yes.........high morals in communist venezuela.
BTW
Congrats to the UK on Wimbledon
@95 LOL! I have, so far, lived an entertaining life and, no, I am not saintly. We should probably leave it there.
Jul 08th, 2013 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am pragmatic about it, rather than laid back. Let's just say I have seen the system work for good rather than evil. As always I will question how much freedom I am prepared to sacrifice for security, but it is not a pretty world on many levels.
@101 Cap'n Poppy, GreAt find.
Jul 09th, 2013 - 07:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you're concerned about what the Venezuelan article,you must,logically be concerned about what Snowden has revealed.
Jul 09th, 2013 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you logical?
Read them both Ayayay....especially the one where they publicized her phone call on GTV(government television)
Jul 09th, 2013 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#58 and my reply at #78
Jul 09th, 2013 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://stevenairspace.com/pacots-tutorial/
I discussed the PACOTS system with an air traffic controller friend of mine who works for the NATS at Oceanic control at Prestwick. He suggested that you look at this site for a brief description of the system of the Pacific organised track system.
He did have a bit of a laugh when I showed him your post and hinted that this was the route planner for Aeroflot who could make their aircraft stay aloft by will power !
By the way, most of the Pacific tracks are monitored by the USA.
I doubt Venezuela will be the tourist Mecca any time soon. They have more than their share of problems but the people are good. The government…?? Well as Snowden has shown there are problems even in the “Great” USA. I feel for the boy. I hope things work out for him and for Venezuela. As for the US I agree more with 102. I really do not like swapping freedom for security. I really do not like the government looking over my shoulder and for those that think Google is the same thing, just remember I can turn off Google and I can delete cookies. Many are also correct in that if you think anything you splatter on the web/cloud or spew over your cell phone is private you’re just not paranoid enough.
Jul 09th, 2013 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yulena how can you possibly equate with the government taking a privately spoken telephone call between a mother and daughter and the government recording it and playing it across the public airwave because the mother is a critic of the government with the datamining the NSA does? The only thing published was fron snowden.....are you a moron or a dickhead?
Jul 09th, 2013 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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