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Montevideo, August 8th 2022 - 13:37 UTC
Brazil will demand an explanation from the United States over reports its citizens' electronic communications have been under surveillance by US spy agencies for at least a decade, foreign minister Antonio Patriota said on Sunday. Read full article
Maybe Brazil wants to get it's own internet, bc the U.S. invented it.
And maybe if the internet was in the hands of the U.N., ALL WITH COUNTRIES WITH LESS FREE SPEECH than the U.S., it would be shambolic.
And maybe the Brazilian gov can tell their citizens that they don't aggregate on it's citizens.
Cause Germany, France, Argentina all turn out to do it.
Mr Patriota, the answer to your rather infantile question is that THEY DON'T TRUST YOU!
I don´t trust the US does that give me the right to spy them? Good to know.
lol, deflect from the millions of Brazilians demanding answers from the Brazilian government on corruption, they learn from the masters of deflection: Argentina
Oi poster 1, it was a Tim Berners-Lee who invented the internet, a guy from London, England.
Anyway I find it very amusing these governments coming out saying they are shocked at the program, like they didn't know it wasn't going on before!
Its just an opinion, but when you align yourselves with countries like Iran, Syria, China, Russia, Venezuela, Arjuntina and so on, what do you expect?
Internet is nothing but a huge shared database. interconnecting the computers worldwide. You sure you lot didn't invent breathing as well? Or taking a dump?
Anyway, the first ones to connect computers for the purpose of sharing information, was the US military with the help from some universities. No one singlehandedly built the internet...
As for the topic, I'm glad the real issue is being discussed, even if the comment sections will do anything to talk about Argentina instead...
Actually no, the internet is in fact from the USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet
Internet protocol was in fact standardized a full 7 years before Tim Berners Lee even began work on it.
@8 - Actually that is incorrect if you understand the technology. There's a difference between network technologies and the internet even if those underlying technologies actually power it for the most part.
There's a reason he hold the title 'Inventor of the Internet' and has been awarded by many bodies as such.
No, those quotes are World Wide Web, not Internet. Clearly YOU don't understand the technology
Ah hilarious, so we've switched to insults since we've got no argument.
The terms of interchangeable plonker.
And let me remind you, when he was announced at such in front of over 100bn people during the Olympic ceremony, I didn't see any outrage there.
nope, not insults, and my argument is simple fact, you can attempt to refute it when you feel up to it, he is considered the inventor of the World Wide Web, not the Internet, two different things, which you'd know if you understood the technology, and which you'd have differentiated, but failed to
Your facts are weak if you are using the terms in their current context.
You must be a real bore in real life if you try to anally split terms like these apart because nobody in the real world does and I know because I work in that industry I supposedly know nothing about in your eyes. Clearly one is the technology that links machines together and the other is the access method but in the real world the terms are used interchangeably.
So when someone says I'm going on the internet, do you say no you're using the world wide web?
lol, keep thrashing about in an attempt to save face, anyone can see you're wrong
Sure thing plonker.
Mastershake is right, they don't call your lad Inventor of the World Wide Web out of convenience.
The internet was a military project that was taken on mainly by some US universities.
There is NO single inventor of the internet.
You guys don't think it's great that the real issue is being discussed in Brazil, instead of Snowden and who invented what? I do...
Its just an opinion, but when you align yourselves with countries like Iran, Syria, China, Russia, Venezuela, Arjuntina and so on, what do you expect?
Brazil did so? and what entails to you an association , that I know they are just associated with Venezuela and Argentina via Mercosur. If we talk Russia and China even the US, Europe, Asia of course, etc have bussines with them or are associated with them via G20 and G8 at one point or another, nd while Brazil isn´t hostile to Iran or Syria it isn´t an associate of them either.
Given the US is also aparently Spying on Europe, it´s traditional allies, It seems it only takes having an association or contact with the US to be spied on.
Ayayay (#1); Xect (#5); Stevie (#7); Mastershake (#8)
The Arpanet (US) became the internet in the 1970s but the fundamental technological core that made it work was known as packet switching. Packet switching was created by British scientist Donald Davies; he created the embyonic internet using this technique at the National Physical Laboratory (NPL), England.
... a mere distraction from Patriota feeling left out from world-spying.
lol, oh boy, British and their continuing jealousy of the States. They just can't swallow the fact that they're not #1 anymore.
Paul Baran, an American, was the first to develop packet switching.
This British jealousy of the States is really getting ridiculous. I can see more and more why Obama is keeping Britain at arm's length more and more these days. I was in Malaysia talking to some Brit, and he actually said that he couldn't wait til China destroyed USA, even though it'd also mean the destruction of Britain shortly thereafter. Your jealousy is gettin kinda ridiculous.
@3 ALL goverments do espionage. They'd be crazy not to. Although argieland is a bit of a joke. I think they're still at the Hey, meester, you want some dirty pictures? stage.
@17 A quote for you about Brazil. In recent years, it has given high priority in establishing political dialogue with other strategic actors such as India, Russia, China and South Africa through participation in international groupings. But it's nice to know that we have a senior official of Itamaraty with us!
Sir Tim Berners-Lee is a British computer scientist, best known as the inventor of the World Wide Web.
Vinton Gray Vint Cerf is an American computer scientist, who is recognized as one of the fathers of the Internet, sharing this title with American computer scientist Bob Kahn.
Mastershake (ex mastershakejb, mastershakejb1, also add) aka shakejob is a pedantic child-troll who comes here to insult people and talk about his made up travels. His ability and demeanor are similar to Beavis (from the 1990s Beavis and Butt-head series).
His replies vary from lol your jealous dude to lol your jealous.
Life has made him butt sore.
Also Ran, are you more jealous as an impoverished person of my travels and money? Or as a Brit of my American citizenship? ;)
@23 Why would a Brit be jealous of your citizenship? Back in the past, it was always amusing to see Americans arrive at UK Immigration, read the notices and then look for someone to ask Which way do Americans go? Then there's the simplification of language. Always wondered why you Yanks come up with some complicated word of phrase for something, but can't manage to put a u in color. Why didn't you change bough to bogh? You have one of the biggest and best-equipped armed forces in the world, but, nearly every time you do something, you want Britain to go with you. And then take all the credit. Remember WW2? It started on 1 September 1939. Where were you? During the course of the war, we gave you radar and sonar, decent aero engines, taught you that convoys were a good idea, evolved the aircraft carrier. And then, after the war, there was the angled flight deck, the steam catapult, the optical landing system. And it was us that came up with the jet engine, jet aircraft, the first commercial jet aircraft. Not too bad for a tiny little island.
What do we have here, a bunch of smug but discontented Brits who think they hav a handle on everyhbody else's issues? I can always tell this bunch whedn they get going on here, from their porcelain thrones there in the economically and socially troubled no longer so United Kingdom. Always commenting remotely rather than boing thee/being there/living there and finding out for themselves what is happening, wherever there happens to be,. By the way, as Merco Press appears more and more to be prepared by the English and for the English, perhaps someone should point out that indefensible a source of unbalanced news coverage as it is, O GLOBO is not the Irish rag referred to in the article as O'Globo, but rather a home grown rag which Brasilians should be none too proud of.
As for the Also Ran vs Mastershake tiff, Also Ran, don't waste your breath. As an American citizen whose family left the fair isles over 400 years ago to escape his kind, I can't be jealous of his US citizenship, nor do I care a whit about whatever money he clains to have. Howeve, I AM appalled that the US granted him citizenship.
Paul Baran did pioneer early work on packet switching with RAND.
First came across him when I scared myself reading about electromagnetic pulse. He was working on hardening electronics.
But Don Davies applied the concepts to what was to become the internet.
Its like inventin' the donut
... Baran might have made one as a door-stop,
but Davies's eurika-moment came when he exclaimed
Hey, guys, if we put a hole in the middle we could use it as food!
What followed was history with a capital Hist.
Read the comments, this started with a Brits trying to correct Americans, by using disinformation, I simply set the story straight, and apparently butthurt them in the process.
Britain shouldn't be jealous, they had their time in the light as #1, USA had theirs too, even USA isn't definitively #1 anymore as we slide more and as other nations gain power. I don't have a problem with this, I'm actually going to China in a week to study Mandarin. Many Brits DO have a problem with having lost first place to USA though, which I don't understand, it's just the cycle of life. Plus, no one's #1 in everything. Britain, for example has a much lower homicide rate than USA, which is enviable.
You personally may not be jealous, Conquerer, and that's healthy. Many Americans are starting to get jealous and angry at China, just as many British have at USA, which is just as ridiculous has Brits getting jealous/angry at USA.
BTW, many would argue Germany was the easy victory, we then had to beat Japan, who never accepted defeats/surrenders/retreats, they always fought to the very last man, even non-military personnel.
Back to the topic.
Is it incompetence of the highest order that Brasil did not know about the US spying on them?
Or is it an opportunity for Patriota to project Brasil onto the world stage in a pseudo science manner to make it appear that they really are getting somewhere.
See the beheaded ref story before you make your mind up.
Also Ran, don't waste your breath - I know you're right, but Beavis is just so easy and obedient. You can throw him any little scrap and he runs off, fetches it and returns with lol, your jealous dude
mad/butthurt ^ keep rage spazzing for me
So what have I learned from the above posts.......the Yanks didn't invent the computer and they didn't invent the WWW!.......and don't have their own language, they got to borrow someone else's.
Interesting article though......I can now see why the Yanks wanted Snowden.....and this, I would imagine is just the beginning of the information flow!
He's had a while and free top level access to a lot of sensitive stuff.
lol, The origin of the computer is debatable, as many parts went into its development, the USA could easily claim this this title (IBM), and Britain could also easily claim this title(Alan Turing)...heck, even France could claim a piece of the title. USA definitely invented the the modern computer, the personal computer, the microchip, and the internet, but not the world wide web/www which title belongs to Britain.
30 Too easy. Fetch boy!
The Brazilians are just naive or trying to copy other Bolivarian nations in always attacking the USA. Spying goes on all the time and all over the world . Embassies spy , in an overt style it is true . They are always collecting information , including market gossip . As we discovered with wiki leaks . Then there is the covert work , CIA , MI6 and others . They try to obtain information which will be of use to their foreign service and governments . Normally to do with security or , one must admit , commercial advantage .
Of course the US , and others , spy on Brazil and other Latin American countries . Their flirting with radical Bolivarian theories or friendship with Iran causes some concern to countries who value the rule of law and have strong democratic roots .
So , dear Brazil ,let us not be naive ! Just say you do not like the US , and others , and be done with it .
@ Britworker: It´s Brazil who has reasons to not trust in United States. Brazil has never done anything to cause damage to American society but on the other hand imagining Brazil would turn into a communist country United States organized and funded a coup not only in Brazil but in Uruguay, Argentina, Paraguay and Chile. It´s officially recognized by the White House that it happened.
Why the US spent money on these dictatorships? American corporations used to do whatever they want (in a bad way) in South America by that time and leftlist governments were trying to control abuse of economic power of such conglomerates.
When Brazil officially stated Cuba should do whatever they want (during Cuba Missiles Crisis) following its constitucional principle of non intervenience on foreign states (which is still part of todays Brazilian constitution) the US convinced itself Brazil would become a China in their backyard.
If you think well you'll realize Americans can do very terrible things when they get paranoid. You might not agree with me and I don't expect that but at least now you know the other side of history.
I just hope Brazil and the States could once again become true allies like in WWII, not like US trying to manipulate Brazil or something like that.
The US answer will be a.......It´s a US national defence interest matter and no explanation is needed. Period.
If you don´t like it you can get dressed and leave.....and the rised finger can be seen from Brazil capital city.............!!!!
@ 20 Conqueror: So do we have to hate neighbors and/or strategic commercial partners because America see them all enemies?! No, thanks! I rather trying to find a common ground than attracting terrorist attacks against us.
@ 34 Baxter: Lol Brazil is not a bolivarian country. A bolivarian country is a country who follows Chavez's doctrine. Brazil has leftlist gov. Now it follows its own internacional policy started by Lula with his South-South cooperation policy. The North like it or not this doctrine at least for a while helped Brazil on economy.
I seem to remember a poster claiming it was the previous bunch to the corrupt Lula that set the scene for the very decent expansion in the economy.
So why, if that is incorrect which I expect you to claim, is Dilma having such a dreadful time trying to make things work?
My own, limited view and experience of Brasil, is that nobody actually understands financial management in Brasil least of all the liar Mantega but Dilma does seem out of her depth now things are not going too well.
As I used to say to my managers: it is easy to manage when things are going well, the clever thing is to make things go well for us when things are going badly for our opposition. That way we increase market share while the others are losing theirs and when the good times come back we are in a better position to benefit from them.
You may think that a simplistic view and that countries are not the same but Brasil seems not to know what the devil to do about it other than to throw money they do not have at problems they do not understand and THAT is a recipe for disaster.
I am Brazilian, and so I am in a good position to tell you that your last paragraph is absolutely right.
Funny to see the same people who scream out loud that South America is full of failed states/irrelevant countries and than say that they should spy us... we are not that irrelevant, maybe? Any country can change itself to better. Culture changes.
And seriously, what real threat South Americas represent to the US? I see none, so there is no reason to spy on us.
38 ChrisR: Obviously there are people who understands economy in Brazil. How do you think Real ended hyper inflation in the first half of the 90s... Brazil doesn't have good economist in charge. When you see Dilma talking about economic growth and prices going higher and higher you clearly see she has no idea what she's doing and Mantega as you said doesn't help much.
As for the specific topic of the article, Americans are not spying Brazilians but using local access in Brazil to spy China, Iran, etc. Why using Brazil? Because it's country where nobody controls watch out for the privacy of web users.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/08/brazil-demands-an-explanation-from-the-us-regarding-electronic-surveillance-of-its-citizens-and-companies#comment259668: Acutally, WWII started on Dec. 10 1941. Before that it was just yet another war between European powers - or, if you prefer, a nasty war between Japan and China from 1937 on. It is difficult to understand why you believe that the US should have been involved in either. In any case the US was not going to repeat the experience of WWI and would not have joined the European war before the Atlantic Charter.
Actually the UK did not give the US radar or sonar. Both radar and sonar where well understood well before WWII. What the delegation to which you implicitly refer did bring was the resonant cavity magnetron and a specific implementation of active sonar. This was in 1940 before the start of the war. At the time the UK was trying to curry favor with the US and believed that the presentation of these trinkets would help in that regard.
The problem is that the magnetron was invented in the US in about 1924 (by G.E.). And the resonant cavity magnetron was patented in Germany had been patented in Germany in the mid 30s. So, which ever way you look at it the magnetron was not the UK's to give. In fact the UK was guilty of IP theft.
If the UK had not made the presentation then the US would have developed both of these instruments from its own resources - probably after a week or two of effort.
In any case, by the time of the delegation the UK was a wholly own subsidiary unit of the US. So you should think of these gifts as similar to a transfer that might occur within any holding company - a transfer from the periphery to the center.
The magnetron was invented in the us in in about 1924 true.
Great for boiling a cup of coffee!
Now if you want to use it for Radar, try the cavity magnetron, flown to the US shortly after it was invented.
Damn you lot are so ferkin jealous we can taste it!
Yeah, yeah, all governments do spying but what would the US be spying on Brazil for? On what level would Brazil be a threat to the US? I would venture a guess and say that the US spying has more to do with information about their oil industry than any threat Brazil could be. And of course that info would immediately be turned over to corporate oil (aka Exxon). When governments spy for corporations their citizens need to ask just how much do the governments care about them. When the governments spy on their citizens you know you are at the bottom of the food chain.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/07/08/brazil-demands-an-explanation-from-the-us-regarding-electronic-surveillance-of-its-citizens-and-companies#comment259970: The original poster claimed that the resonant cavity magnetron was given to the US in 1940. But you claim that it was flown from Germany to the US in the 1930s. Which is it, I wonder.
Actually it is not that important. The device was well known in the US before WWI. Once the war started the device would have been in manufacture very quickly and the time line would not have changed.
I can understand that client countries feel the need to attempt to boost the value of their trinkets because that is all they have to offer masters.
Hep c I though you disappeared....I've been looking for you since your mis used and mis quoted quoted of Ben Franklin:
en.mercopress.com/2013/07/09/strong-letter-to-cristina-fernandez-for-blocking-amia-case-prosecutor-from-testifying-before-us-congress#comment260303: Time to quote Ben Franklin again: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
Care to finish to topic or did your mis use embarrass you and make you run like think/stink-a voice? I asked you a very specific question based on using my founding fathers quoted on the balance betwenn liberty and security, yet you run away.....why is that?
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