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Argentina plays down latest ruling from NY Appeals Court on investment funds’ litigation
The order handed down on Tuesday by the Appeals Court of New York's Second Cirtcuit “does not affect the appeal” that the Argentine government is pursuing in the case against the investment funds (‘vulture funds’), according to the Argentine Economy Ministry. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesGet the verdict out soon or C.F.K.will use it as an election ruse
Jul 10th, 2013 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0,i.e.the yankees is stealing our money
(what we stole first)
Unfortunately for Consentino, the judgement DOES affect the appeal to the Supreme Court because it confirms the original judgement. If the argies thought that their appeal to the Appeal Court of New York's Second Circuit was of no relevance, why didn't they withdraw it? Because it's the argie way to get as many irons in the fire as possible in the hope that one of them will work. Unfortunately, New York courts are smarter than argies.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Reading the remit of the SCOTUS it seems that judgements are evaluated for legal process errors not determination of facts.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Having said that SCOTUS has on several occasions gone outside that remit.
So who knows?
I am glad to see this is finally coming to an end. A decade in the courts is too long.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most legitimate (sane) countries would have settled this by now.
I am not sure why they want to keep embarrassing themselves?
I don't see SCOTUS taking this up and I hope they deny it soon so it is finally wrapped up. Legally, anyway.
My guess is Arg will not pay and end up both default and contempt of court.
That'll be fun to watch.
4#
Jul 10th, 2013 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0E can rely on you to predict an end date.Wasnt it last January or something.I don't exactly remember when it was exactly you predicted but you will be able to tell me.You will wont you or will I have to search the history?
yulena why don; you search then? Weathermen cannot predict the hour of rain but they can certainly predict it will rain. Modern science can also keep the braindead alive.........argentina and mercosur are in the ICU on life support.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I would be very surprised if SCOTUS accepts this case. I noticed that asslips had to threaten businesses to accept to new toilet paper with evita on it. What a country.....a thief as a president and a whore on their currency.
@4 I like it that argieland has made this so high profile. So let's just watch. Argieland has “fought” this through the courts of the jurisdiction that IT chose. And when the judgement is finally handed down, argieland will refuse to comply. Citing its “sovereignty”. Or, more accurately, its criminality. Let's just get on and declare argieland to be “rogue”. Exclude it from the UN, G20 and anything else we can think of. Sanctions? Definitely. Find every “asset” it has and seize it. Close all embassies and consulates. Indict argieland before the ICJ for all its many crimes. Genocide, attempted larceny, treaty violations, internal murders, corruption, invasion, war, mendacity, war crimes, breaches of the UN Charter, non-compliance with BINDING UN resolutions, degeneracy. So many possibilities. And then there's the “defendents”. CFK, of course. Then there's Tinboy, Putrid Jelly, Morono, Randy Florence, Silly oni, and others. Not forgetting decimation of the “population”. Hang on, that would be the “implanted population” with no rights. Forget “decimation”. Let's go for centimation. Forget executing 1 in 10. Centimation. Execute 100 in 100. Definitely an “opening” for Terminator. Who needs argieland? “Innocent people” don't exist in argieland.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has no intention of abiding by the courts decision & is only buying time until after the October mid-terms
Jul 10th, 2013 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK thinks that if she can survive the elections then when the inevitable default comes she can blame the US courts for unfair judgements
However, if she takes a beating in October as all the polls suggest then the default together with inflation. corruption, insecurity, lack of investment & failing economy will surely mean the end of CFK.........RIP Kirchnerismo!!!
@5 Yankeeboy:
Jul 10th, 2013 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd love to know the source of your confidence on whether your Supreme Court will hear Argentina”s appeal - not doubting you, I'm genuinely curious. None of the usual suspects ( FT, WSJ, Economist etc...) seem to know either way. I can think of reasons why they wouldn't as well as why they would.
I think a lot may depend on how Griesa determines the payment method. The implications, not just for Argentina, could be be horrendously complicated. If it were only Argentina that would be affected then I can't see them hearing the case but if Griesa's judgement stands... who knows? Thats why the U.S. is an interested party I believe. And I believe you are correct to predict a default - unless they can figure out some way to pay the other creditors outside of New York - also horrendously complicated.
I don't know why Arg thinks this is a special case? I think it is just their typical arrogance and stupidity.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There have been plenty of bonds issued, paid and defaulted under NYC law and this case is not going to change that.
Most sane countries would have negotiated with these holdouts and paid them off by now and got on with their lives.
I could see SCOTUS taking this up to decide give a final ruling on if a country can waive Sovereignty but I think that has already been answered under NY Court law.
My gut tells me they won't take it up, they don't decide contract law they set precedent and I don't see any precedent setting issues here.
@10 Yankeeboy:
Jul 10th, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the reply.
SCOTUS will choose a case when there is a conflict of law, meaning several lower courts have differing opinions, or when lower courts disregards precedent, or even when the case is of interest to the Justices( but a majority must still approve to take the case). Lastly, if the case is of an important matter. This is basic contract law as Yankee stated numerous times and because of that, it is straight forward and highly unlikely that SCOTUS will take on this case.....just my opinion as is Yankees.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which country in Latin America gives a crap what the SCOTUS says? Also, Yankeeboy is not an American citizen. He's a UK Tool!
Jul 10th, 2013 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the ones that files appeals in them. In realty, mercosur communists countries do not care about any law in any country, as demonstrated by the numerous broken contract, treaties and agreements, in particular in the fiefdom you know as argenzuelivia
Jul 10th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13 Tompaine:
Jul 10th, 2013 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not sure if you expect an answer but I'll give it a whirl - any Latin American country that has borrowed money in New York with similar 'pari passu' clauses will be watching this case intently. There are billions of U.S. Dollars at stake, and the Supreme Court's judgement - if it is ever heard by them - will resonate far beyond it's shores.
It's partly a reflection of the U.S.'s power and influence ( for better or worse ) and the rigor with which these cases are typically argued.
#15....you do not think the black and white of contract law should prevail over politics? I understand, as quoted from pepe that ” sometimes politics is more important than the rule of law, I am wondering, who gets to decide when politics is more important than the rule of law.......?
Jul 10th, 2013 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people?
The government?
The party in power?
Also, lest you forget the USA, as a reflection of Obama pressed to rule in favor of Argentina. Not very much influence.....no?
@17 Captain Poppy:
Jul 10th, 2013 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your query lacks the specificity for me to answer adequately. The best answer I can give is: it depends on the particular law and the particular political response. Anything designed by human beings ( apart from Marshall Amplifiers, of course ) is imperfect and given the variety of human behaviour and the impossibility of always predicting what we ( and nations) will do it follows that laws are imperfect and so are politics. It's why we have appeals courts. Sorry if that seems excessively philosophical.
17. Take a read:
Jul 10th, 2013 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/04/23/argentina-vs-elliott-its-not-about-pari-passu-any-more/
Argentina wants SCOTUS to take up the case of Sovereignty where it starts and where it end. My bet is they won't do it.
#17 whatever you say tobi
Jul 10th, 2013 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina wants, wants and wants.......but in the land where countries work, they are getting nothing. We should know in September the cases they accept and ones they reject.
@18 Yankeeboy:
Jul 10th, 2013 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting article. Let me get this straight - are you arguing ( or suggesting ) that Argentina is not going to argue Griesa's interpretation of Olsen's interpretation of that pari passu clause but focus exclusively on the issue of Sovereignty? ( Quite a mouthful I know ).
If you are and the Supreme Court sees it the same way then I agree with you.
I'm not an attorney so this is merely my rantings but...
Jul 10th, 2013 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see what else they could argue?
SCOTUS is not going to take a contract law case from NY over this issue. The law is well established with 200 years of cases.
Pari passu is well defined and Peru/Elliott is the precedent.
Arg is trying to delay and hopefully SCOTUS will deny it before Sept. when the next payment is due.
This malarky over Gresa and the payments is a smoke screen. He knows what he can compel US Banks to do and has done it. They might not like it but too bad maybe next time they won't take Arg on as a client.
Again if Arg didn't have deep pockets in the middle of a Commodities boon this would all be over with. The deep pockets have a hole and the Soy boom is over. So her timing is bad. I hope the lawyers have been paid upfront.
@22Yankeeboy:
Jul 10th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, if what you predict will happen comes to pass, they're screwed. I wouldn't worry about the lawyers though - Argentina can always pay them in biodiesel. Courtesy of the E.U. they no doubt have a surplus...
Yankee they're lawyers, not my favorite people on earth, but win lose or draw they only work with advanced funds .....the infamous retainer.
Jul 10th, 2013 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you are absolutely correct. SCOTUS does not and will not hear cases involving state law unless it contradicts precedent or involves a constitutional issue. Sovereignty is the only thing they can argue. I would love to see their intended paperwork work. Yank, when is that Sept payment?
EOM Sept, coincidentally the same time they get to show their new inflation rate calculation to IMF or get suspended.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0SCOTUS cases, bond payments, IMF showdown...............sounds like a fun time in Argentina in September.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0They say that 72% of the population experienced a blackout last year.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Everything is crumbling around them and there is no $ in the till.
BA is flooded again today
AR has huge delays for the 2nd day in a row
They should change the slogan from “ Argentina a Serious Country” to “well its better than Venezuela”... for now.
26 yankeeboy
Jul 11th, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“They should change the slogan from “ Argentina a Serious Country” to “well its better than Venezuela”...for now”
Well they do have the new 100 pesos note to wipe their backsides on: that's one up on Venezuela!
LOLs
The was a blackout when I was there in January but it did noy last long as the courts were coimg back from break and we were on the same block as one
Jul 11th, 2013 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23
Jul 11th, 2013 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi. the retained only normally covers a small amount of the overall fee. For cases such as this Cleary Gottlieb Steen will be billing by the hour and then deliver a bill at the end of each month. They may well ask for proof of funds though. That is always intersting. I remember having some quite difficult conversations with our clients (RBS, Bear Stearns, Lehman, Morgan Stanley, Meryll) as to whether they had the capability to pay our fees in the coming months back in the dark days of the crisis...
Correct retained here in the US is typically the amount that must be on the account at all times. A client say puts 10k on retainer, the liar uses 7.5k during the month, the monthly statement would show cash on hand, billable hours and the amount (7.5k) needed to replenish the retainer to 10k.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yankeeboy-
Jul 11th, 2013 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not an attorney so this is merely my rantings but...
Aren't you always ranting about things you like to rant about.None of what you post is connected to the article it is connected to.
You're only having fun aren't you,sad boy.
We could talk about the price of bread at $10/kl but only the 1st 50 customers or 10am whichever comes sooner. Then its $18.
Jul 11th, 2013 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bahahahaha
is this 18th Century France? Price of bread...
let them eat cake
4#
Jul 12th, 2013 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0E can rely on you to predict an end date.Wasnt it last January or something.I don't exactly remember when it was exactly you predicted but you will be able to tell me.You will wont you or will I have to search the history?
AND
Yankeeboy-
I'm not an attorney so this is merely my rantings but...
Aren't you always ranting about things you like to rant about.None of what you post is connected to the article it is connected to.
You're only having fun aren't you,sad boy.
yulena, this is only this article. Two posts and both to Yankee and nothing about this article......focused on Yankee. You either are enamored with Yankee of you really have nothing relevant or contributory to say. Come on yulena........I wait with bated breath for your slighted comments.
He doesn't get all his OT posts directed at me are...gasp OT.
Jul 12th, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rg logic never ceases to amaze.
I think he took too much zinc and caused early dementia
Jul 12th, 2013 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 035. My bet it was just a poor education in Argentina.
Jul 12th, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dementia would have other signs.
Looks like the largest buyer of Cedins is the front man for the Ks. No surprise there. They might have even tailored the law to suit their narco and other filthy friends.
As of yesterday U$3MM has been sold, a far cry from the U$4B they want.
That U$3MM doesn't even pay for the daily port charges for the LNG shipments while they wait for the wire. 200K/day adds up pretty quickly.
Public education is administered by the la campora who are more concerned with indoctrination than education.
Jul 12th, 2013 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see the blue dollar is back on the rise.
Sept 12th is the next bond installment
Captain and yankeeboy,enjoy talking to yourself
Jul 12th, 2013 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes ...we do. Does that annoy you?
Jul 12th, 2013 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Kirchner's gardener er or should I say now Airport official is indicted for corruption.
Jul 12th, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cap, Can you imagine if one of our Prez put their GARDENER in some cushy gov't job AND THEN that apparently wasn't enough he had to steal!!
There is only one solution to this mess
40 yankeeboy
Jul 12th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love the smell of napalm in the morning!
LOLs
lol Ok yankee, you've lived there I only go on extended visits. I just read the prosecutor general just ruled the media law constitution. Why does a lawyer make ruling and not judges?
Jul 12th, 2013 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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