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President-elect demands rule of the law before Paraguay returns as active Mercosur member
Paraguayan president elect Horacio Cartes confirmed that his government will insist in its position regarding Mercosur, which expects Paraguay to return as full active member following the inauguration ceremony 15 August. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesRule of law!,Mercosur you cannot be serious?
Jul 18th, 2013 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Paraguay issue that just won´t go away.
Jul 18th, 2013 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One assumes that ,eventually ,Mercosur will realize that Paraguay is serious and start discussions . But unlikely looking ,objectively , at the current leaders of those countries !
Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And Bolivia is about to become a full member !
Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahaha you deluded ones. Still you fail to grasp the crude reality Paraguay lives in. This is a lot of hot air from Cartes and he knows it. Brasil pulls the strings on this matter, and whole of SA knows it, be it Mercosur or the Alianza.
Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And as stated in this article, Cartes is a President elect, not a President...
5 Stevie . So nice to hear from you and sit in wonder at your pearls of wisdom . Cartes in indeed president elect but the current , and actual , President has stated publicly that he fully ,and completely , agrees with the position taken by Cartes . Which may I add ,living here and not living in a shell ,is supported by about ninety percent of the population . As they say here “ BASTA ” . Enough of gross interference in the internal affairs of a free nation .Enough of harassment and bullying . Enough of left wing ideology . Enough of breaking rules to allow the entry to the club of a “friend ”.
Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil is indeed powerful ! But I hardly think that Argentina likes to play second fiddle to anybody ! Added to which Paraguay supplies the energy which keeps São Paulo working .
Baxter
Jul 18th, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Paraguay has no President, they have a de facto President whom nobody listens to, hence Cartes speaks.
You want to talk about Brasilian dependence of Paraguay? Turn the tables and compare it with Paraguays dependence on Brasil ;)
Mercosur doesn't really function or benefit any of the parties involved. It doesn't really have a reason to exist.
Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 05 Stevie
Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As a ‘deluded one’ it seems the posters here outnumber you, and as usual you are isolated.
What is wrong with complying with the law and rules of Mercosur? It is a real pity that the other countries, including Uruguay, don’t want to act legally.
But we all know why don’t we? Desperate to enjoin the Dead Man Now Rotting they trampled over their own ‘ethics’ (an oxymoron when considered with the countries involved) and then shit themselves when Paraguay booted out the Flock Shagger because they could all see how it could eventually point the way for their own citizens to do likewise to them.
And how do you justify Brazil ruling the roost at the PA when Dilma is having REAL trouble dealing with her own citizens (see the paragraph above) and WTF has Brazil to do with the PA anyway or do you know something that we don’t: is Brazil about to apply? Do tell.
Chris
Jul 18th, 2013 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From where I sit, we far outnumber you lot, so what?
And what are you talking about? We jst made a new law that stops any senate from vetoing the will of the people.
A much better law than the one of surveillance that denies people privacy, don't you think?
As for Brasil and Paraguay, well you need to travel there and see for yourself. Brasil may have little to do with the Alianza, but it has plenty to do with Paraguay, lets put it like that...
@5 No, we don't know it. From where we're “sitting”, it looks like Brazil is running scared. “Influential” figures denouncing its actions. Patriota desperately trying to tell Paraguay what it should do. And Cartes saying that it's Paraguay's way or no way. And what will Brazil and argieland do when Paraguay cuts off its contribution to their energy supplies? Invade? Paraguay has a history of beating the shit out of both of them. And there are plenty of countries that will come to Paraguay's aid.
Jul 18th, 2013 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Ever tried understanding LAW? Strangely, Paraguay says Franco is president. The president is head of state and head of government. Want to argue with Paraguay's military? He might order them to kill you!
@10 “We”? Who's “we”? Some little pointless bunch of fart-arses! You're one of those little balloons of smelly, hot air from Uruguay, aren't you? Recently re-named as Urineguay due to its habit of pissing itself. So you've just made a law. So what? Going to apply your law to argieland, are you? Thought not. How about Brazil? No? Go on, you're going to apply it to Venezuela. Right? Of course not. You don't have the capability even if “Pepe” had the guts. And he doesn't. Here are three possibilities. You're a tiger, a paper tiger or a paper bag. Wrong! You're wet toilet tissue. Get your head back up your arse where it belongs.
“And what are you talking about? We jst made a new law that stops any senate from vetoing the will of the people. ”
Jul 18th, 2013 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So does this mean that is the will of the people have the will to legalize rape it becomes law? The will of the people is always what counts right?
Stevie . I will not waste my time , or my I pad answering you . Just float around in your scene cesspit of communist lies !
Jul 18th, 2013 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie your comment “we far outnumber you” Sounds a bit like your now defunct pal Joseph Stalin when he said And how many divisions has the Pope” Read your history Those who mess with Paraguay have had thier noses well and truly blooded
Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0redpoll, that was not my comment, just a response to Chris' “we far outnumber you”. And as I asked him, so what?
Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And who is messing with Paraguay. They are free to leave Mercosur if that's their wish.
You think they will?
15 Good question . But all Paraguay wants is a fair deal . Respect as an equal member . Acceptance that Paraguay should have been pro tempore president of Mercosur last June ,so it would be fair if they were given that post now and not Vanezuela . Paraguay is , basically , a good neighbour . All it wants is a fair deal .
Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Baxter, con la mano en el corazón, did Paraguay ever give Venezuela a fair deal?
Jul 18th, 2013 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie You must realize that Paraguay doesnt owe anything to anyone. I think they are the country with the lowest foriegn debt in the world; 9% of GDP I seem to recall. It would be even less if thier “friendly” nieghbours paid proper prices for the electricity they import and paid on time.
Jul 18th, 2013 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the past Paraguayan democracy has been very fragile but it isnt now. The impeachment of former bishop Lugo as president was democratic. The only thing one can say about that man is that he certainly increased his flock.
Stevie asks Did Paraguay ever give Venezuela a fair chance? Yes they did and the reply was for Venezuela to incite civil war in that country
17 what a question ! Relations have always been normal. Perhaps they understood , quicker than others , what Chavez was all about . Bur a fair deal , yes.
Jul 19th, 2013 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0The whole point , and I will say no more , is that Paraguay was illegally ousted from Mercosur and Venezuela was ,illegally , allowed in . Illegal ousting because the change of government was legal .The 1992 Constituition is a mixture of presidential / parliamentary system . The second allows for quick impeachment . The British style , refer to May 1979 . The majority in Congress was almost ninety
percent .
In the case of Venezuela new members can join if ALL founding members agree . Paraguay was not at the Mendoza meeting so decision illegal .
So what Paraguay wants is an admission that its expulsion was illegal and that it should have been named pro tempore president at that meeting .June 2012 . As that did not happen they asked that ,at the 2013 meeting ,this be rectified and Paraguay named president . And that the Venezuela admission be restudied , following approval by the Paraguayan Congress .
All very simple .
redpoll
Jul 19th, 2013 - 07:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0So they owe 9% of the GDP, but they owe it to no one?
Democracy is not fragile today you say? Having in mind they ousted the President elected BY THE PEOPLE and put a de facto one elected by the senate? You call that a not fragile democracy? If so, the rest of your post would make sense, because Paraguay never gave Venezuela a chance whatsoever. Their senate have been hindering a Brother nation to join the integration and the only reason has been ideological differences. Nothing to do with trade.
Baxter
If you think you can “legally” oust a President elected by the people and put in a puppet elected by the senate, you really have no idea what democracy is about in the first place.
Cartes is probably playing between Mercosur and Pacific Alliance, in a similar way Uruguay has been doing it.
Jul 19th, 2013 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Read your history. Those who mess with Paraguay have had their noses well and truly blooded.' (Redpol #14)
Jul 19th, 2013 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think that the only major war the Paraguay engaged in (1864-70) left PA with a genocidically diminished population with disproportionately fewer men and boys. They came out of 'massively second' when they attacked the present Mercosur countries-VEN.
390,000 deaths, the highest rate of fatalities related to the number of combatants of any war in modern history. It particularly devastated Paraguay, which suffered catastrophic losses in population and was forced to cede territory to Argentina and Brazil.
Long memories on 'all' sides.
20 Stevie . As always magnificent ,erudite and brillant comments .You should teach logic at Oxford . Well done ,you dazzle me . Will be unable to sleep the whole weekend . You are ,but so , brillant . I stand in awe .
Jul 19th, 2013 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17 You poor deluded halfwit. Venezuela showed what it was by retaining Chavez the 0verbearing, over-weening wanker. Thankfully, now D E A D! At what point does a piece of shit merit a “fair deal”? You wipe it off, flush it and forget it.
Jul 19th, 2013 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@20 Your “problem”is that you don't want to understand law. The Paraguayan people approved their constitution. An upstart attempted to subvert that and the Paraguayan Senate stopped him, in accordance with the constitution. Trouble is that you don't want to understand reality. I have to admit that I could have had a preference for a public trial. Followed by Lugo's execution. So Paraguayans seem to be pretty considerate and humane. Just as a thought, what has mercosur to do with “trade”? It's a politico-totalitarian-dictatorial congomeration for argieland's imperialist colonialist purposes. For the sake of the entire world, mercosur has to be destroyed. Physically destroyed. Starting with argieland. Once that is destroyed, we can ask Uruguay, how it figures its options. Then Brazil. And then Venezuela. My best guess is that Venezuela would have been squealing whilst we deal with Brazil. Watching a neighbour being destroyed can be quite brutal.
By the way, just to get things into perspective, I am amazed at your ability to be a stupid fart-arse. Don't bother responding. I have no interest in “debating” your infantile fantasies.
But what I tell you is that, from 7,500 miles away, you can be “negated”.
Re @23 Baxter. I don't stand in awe. I'm just hoping to see you die.
24 .Great comment . I see that you do understand the situation . Also agree with your comments on Stevie . But why do you want me to die ? I thought we were sensible bed fellows !
Jul 19th, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie
Jul 20th, 2013 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Democracy is not about electing personalities, it is about choosing those you want to govern you, based on the policy or political manifesto of that leaders party.
They did not elect him, they elected his party!
You saying that once elected, a head of state has carte blanche to govern how they like?
Democracy without accountability is dictatorship, plain and simple!
All real democracies have instruments in place to legally replace their heads of state.
What Paraguay did was a legal excercise of their democracy.
What did Mercosur call it? A congressional coup.
Well That is exactly what a democratic impeachment is, only they are to stupid to recognise one when they see one.
26 reality check
Jul 20th, 2013 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And Dilma, TMBOA and 'WTF day is it' Pepe were shitting themselves that a similar thing could happen to them.
RC you are going to make stevie's head explode with the idea that the executive of the government and the head of state is not the ultimate power that goes unchecked by congress.
Jul 20th, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 024 Conqeror . Still no reply of why you want me dead ! I hope you understand that my reply to Stevie - 23 - was completely cynical . I know the lowest firm of wit but sometimes useful when dealing with ranting left wingers !
Jul 20th, 2013 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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