MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
PM Cameron reassures Gibraltar “no compromise on sovereignty”, following shooting incident
British Prime Minister David Cameron has told Chief Minister Fabian Picardo that Britain “will not compromise on sovereignty” in the face of Spanish incursions into British Gibraltar territorial waters. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAnd Spain has the nerve to say that it wants to negotiate peacefully, I suppose when a country as weak, de-powered and economically ruined as Spain is desperate they will go to any lengths to get what they want, remind you of anyone else.
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I made clear to Prime Minister Rajoy that the reported actions of the Guardia Civil were unacceptable”......, wrote Cameron in the letter......
And that's why he's going to ban pornography from the English Internet ;-)))
This has now being going on for some time now . They should send either HMS Daring or Dauntless . Or the new submarine which can go around the world without surfacing ! But now we know where the Argentines learnt how to cause trouble . Same tactics ,different country .
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 Think
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Worried that you won't be able to get your fix of porn?
And he isn't banning porn, he's making child filters mandatory, which means that the adults will have to alter the settings on the computer to gain access.
Worried that you won't know how to do that?
As for the article. Spain is treading a fine line here. If those police officers had killed someone with their reckless shooting, then they would be charged with murder.
However a restrained response is better, because like their problem child Argentina, Spain likes to try and play the victim. We'll just give them enough rope to hang themselves, the same as we're doing with the Argentines.
And be day they'll go too far, and then they'll get a good slapping.
@4
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well Said.
(3) Baxter
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeahhhhhhh....
Let them send the Navy.....
That wil teach them Continentals a lesson :-)))
@6
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well its certainly worked well in the past on loads of occasions, especially against another continent in 1982 :-)))
I bet that stiff letter from the Brits got those Spanish quaking in their booties.....two old has-beens, walking stick rattling with one hand on their zimmer-frames.
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that Cameron's stern face?
@8
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd imagine the Spanish should be quaking in their boots after all every time they've messed with us they've gone home with a bloody nose, including their offspring for that matter.
Yes, most Spanish speaking countries come off worse when they mess with us and Spain is in a very unstable situation at the moment, it wouldn't take too much to help them in their undoing.
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is the wrong fight at the wrong time for Spain and they will regret they ever started this nonsense.
@10
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too right about Spain, here is a nation who conquered most of the Americas and then became deluded with its own self imagery and pissed 90% of her empire away in less then 30 years and now her inbred offspring are doing exactly the same thing but with their own dignity. It proves that Hispanic nations are just naturally flawed.
@11
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too right about England, here is a nation who conquered most of the World and then became deluded with its own self imagery and pissed 90% of her empire away in less then 200 years and now her inbred offspring are doing exactly the same thing but with their own dignity. It proves that Anglo nations are just naturally flawed.
@12 Nice way of stealing my truthful words and applying typical Argie revisionism. First of all Britain unlike Spain knew that all empires had to end eventually and so we did not piss away but grant democratic self determination to the vast bulk of out territories. Our offspring are also far superior in terms of quality of life, politics and economics compared to the likes of Spain's children. You try and find me a single Hispanic nation that can compare to the likes of the Falkland islanders or Canadians who out live, out earn and enjoy life to higher standard. It just proves that Anglo nations are naturally superior. Try again Thinky boy, I don't think you know history very well.
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.......nothing to do with Napoleon destroying the Spanish army then?
I was informed yesterday that the Spanish have not stopped their intrusions into Gibraltar waters.
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A friend of mine was fishing off Europa Point when a Spanish civilian Rhib passed so close to his boat at high speed, that it pulled one of his fishing rods from his boat. He writes about the incident here:
http://www.panorama.gi/localnews/headlines.php?action=view_article&article=10524&offset=0
The harassment of Gibraltar has been going on daily for years now. It stepped up in frequency during 2012, before the Diamond Jubilee and the Olympics. In fact, ever since Spain's financial position appeared catastrophic.
Rajoy is using Gibraltar to deflect attention from his many worries, chief amongst which is the number of Spanish unemployed, the fact that they are now starving and the fact that Rajoy has been taking political bribes for years.
Despite the presence of Royal Navy warships (including nuclear submarines), Spain has no inclination to stop their bad behaviour. They see it as a way of insulting the British by flouting the International Law of the Sea and claiming that the Treaty of Utrecht never mentioned the waters around Gibraltar, although it did include the Port. However that did not stop one Guardia Civil speedboat trespassing within Gibraltar's breakwaters - within the British port.
The Defenders of Gibraltar have frequently warned Her Majesty's Government and the Gibraltar Government that something must be done, only for it to fall on deaf ears.
http://www.panorama.gi/localnews/headlines.php?action=view_article&article=10524&offset=0
The recent Jetski shooting incident indicates where this is heading.
If the British Government does not deploy armed Royal Marines in fast patrol boats to arrest trespassing Guardia Civil, Spanish fishing boats, or civilian rhibs acting in a manner dangerous to others (AND CONFISCATE THEM), then Gibraltar citizens might start taking action of their own.
I wonder how many 0.5” shots it will take before they get the message?!
@14
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No not entirely, but the seeds of destruction had already been sewn by the Spanish themselves who allowed themselves to get into bed with France, thinking that Britain could easily be defeated. They also lost their territory by being a heavy handed, un-reforming, overly religious absolute monarchy based state and as such driving their own colonists against them who were left to fend for themselves when Spain sided with Napoleon and eventually became more and more of a puppet state.
Off topic, but have I just read on the bbc that Cuba has been caught red handed sending arms including mig parts to North Korea? Oh dear.
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13 “It just proves that Anglo nations are naturally superior.”
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes NATURALLY superior all right, it's all on your Superman genes. I can't wait till you get a good spanking so you can start respecting people as equals.
Was this the boat they stopped approaching the Panama Canal?
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cuba said they were obsolete and being sent for repair. So which are they? Obsolete or repairable?
@18
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why would I get a spanking? History has proven me right, Im not racist but merely pointing out that after their independence the Hispanic nations of Spain immediately entered military Juntas, backwards economics, self destruction and strife while the anglo nations of Britain became modern, highly developed and democratic nations. History is on my side for pointing out a basic fact of the past.
Yes a good spanking in deed.....can I spank you all? better yet, anyone care to spank me? Over and over and over?
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From what I have read, very viable fuselages. Now, I wonder what they are doing there lol
Ok.....................
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16
Jul 22nd, 2013 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Becoming an ally of France was to gain Portugal.......good move, if Napoleon had not changed his mind.......happens all the time, Hitler /Stalin.
The point is.......it had nothing to do with delusion or self imagery and everything to do with this.......
“The burden of war destroyed the social and economic fabric of Portugal and Spain and ushered in an era of social turbulence, political instability, and economic stagnation. Devastating civil wars between liberal and absolutist factions, led by officers trained in the Peninsular War, persisted in Iberia until 1850. The cumulative crises and disruptions of invasion, revolution, and restoration led to the independence of most of Spain's American colonies and the independence of Brazil from Portugal.”
close the British embassy in spain until further notice and advise tourists that spain is no longer a safe place to travel for foreigners as even the police shoot at innocent tourists (FACT), there are plenty of alternative holiday destinations to choose from and im sure a great country like spain doesn't need to rely on british tourism or the money that it generates to survive :)
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0hit them where it hurts!! goto Greece or Portugal im sure british coin will be much appreciated there.
@21
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why bother everyone can see you are an impostor by the use of the number 0 instead of the o in Voice.......it's slightly bigger......give it up!
@24
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0That bit I would agree with completely but that was part of the larger self-delusion I was speaking of, having studied this period I can tell you that Spain became deeply concerned by the sudden rise of Great Britain, an island nation which it had 200 years before treating like crap and blocking its every attempt to start its own overseas territories. (See the way Drake was treated and why he turned to piracy and the Spanish treatment of Scotland in her attempt to start an overseas empire in Panama.) Research further and you can see that the Absolute Monarchy of Spain was key in driving her colonies to revolt. The whole war was part of Spain thinking she was invincible. Her alliance with France made her let her guard down and when she realised her incompetent mistake was killing her self and her empire it was too late and Napoleon was knocking on the front door. This self delusion and poor government in Spain led to these events and the subsequent loss of her empire. The war was important but the whole point was that Spain herself entered it willingly and allowed the following events to occour.
@26
I have to agree with you there regarding the pathetic impostors on both sides on this site, grow up!
@27
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am unable to dispute your findings, I haven't studied it in any depth and will need to read up on it, rather than argue with little knowledge.
I do know the Spanish people and some military did fight with the British and conducted guerrilla warfare against the French.....that hardly makes them inferior and the British superior!
@28
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0@28
“Spanish people and some military did fight with the British and conducted guerrilla warfare against the French.....that hardly makes them inferior and the British superior!”
Oh no not at all, and I didn't mean it like that, after all The Spanish revolutionaries who fort against the French allied Spanish government were crucial in the Peninsular war to secure allied victory. I meant superior in the way that the British ran our colonies and how they turned out in relations to Spain's who have been less successful. We British are obviously the better empire builders as we created the largest, most powerful and greatest empire in human history from Cape to Cairo, Burma to Kabul and London to the world. But that said I do find great interest in Spanish imperial history, its a very fascinating period of history, especially the early period of the empire following Columbus.
PM Camoron needs to return all stolen goods with an apology.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/English_imperialism_octopus.jpg
@20 you need a good spanking because to claim that people from one race or culture are superior is the definition of racism. Historical events can never prove that some people are superior to others.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0@30
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos Moron needs to stop sponging of Britain then insulting and degrading it. Argentina also needs to return all stolen goods wit an apology. But I doubt you will reply to me as you are a proven coward.
@31
Errr.....yes they can I've just proved that with a comparison from one Anglo nation (Canada) and one Hispanic nation (Argentina). Oh and I'm not racist, I have several Hispanic/Portuguese friends and acquaintances.
Argentina needs to return all stolen goods with an apology.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquest_of_the_Desert
@25: Meanwhile... while this is old news (didn't this happen in June?) , Spain is banking on the UK being the well adjusted adult in this, while it seeks to distract its own people (much like Argentina does) and get validation from Latam fellow angry teenagers, it also banks, literally, on the UK to be a good collegial member of the EU and NOT retaliate diplomatically or economically, and would have still done so had their fearless guardia had shot the unarmed jetskier dead with the footage, once again, on youtube for all to see. Heck they may even have strongly encouraged the “snuff film” to be banned from youtube (and perhaps Cameron would have concurred , not just because it was “pornographic” but also, once again, to maintain EU stability despite the unending recklessness a fellow, but sloppy drunk, EU member).
@32
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Conor J., good job announcing the birth of the baby boy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/going-out-guide/files/2013/07/03797705_image_982w.jpg
@34
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you Marcos but the fact that you couldn't respond to my point in @32 proves that you are a coward and a sponger who cannot respond to any argument or point case made against you. Oh and by the way that chap is far to old to be me.
“Any student of world history will tell you that if he had to pick a single nation to pin all the world's troubles on, Britain is far and away the obvious choice”
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 04:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0People of the World, It's Time to get Paid.
http://www.britishreparations.org/commercial.php
@32 ”Errr.....yes they can I've just proved that with a comparison from one Anglo nation (Canada) and one Hispanic nation (Argentina). Oh and I'm not racist, I have several Hispanic/Portuguese friends and acquaintances.”
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just because Canada is doing well and Argentina isn't doesn't give you or anyone any right to claim any human, or any race or culture is superior to another. I don't see how anything Spain or the UK did, or how effective politicians are at screwing the people make people superior or inferior to others. You so like to claim that you are past the days of the Empire yet you are still trying to insult the humanity of people. I guess you still call you the Africans savages.
@36
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you actually listen to the likes of the nutter who read the book accompanying that site then you seriously have issues Marcos the coward.
@37
“Just because Canada is doing well and Argentina isn't doesn't give you or anyone any right to claim any human, or any race or culture is superior to another.” Again this is just one example, can you actually find me an example of an Hispanic nation with qualities of life that even come remotely close to Anglo ones. You can call me racist all you want but its the truth of the matter and I have yet to see you refute it.
“African Savages” no not at all but history would prove me right again in saying that Africa was a far better place under European colonial rule then it is today. Zimbabwe for example under British rule as Rhodesia just before its independence had a life expectancy of 70-75, (comparable to most european nations at the time in the 60s-70s) a GDP per capita of around $30,000 (again this is the seventies) low crime and virtually zero inflation and a functioning and organised government system. How are things going today with life expectancies as low as 40, inflation making a loaf of bread worth millions or a virtually none existent government system replaced by a semi dictatorship? There are more examples like Kenya which was referred to as the Bread Basket of Africa under British rule and now the country suffers from regular food shortages. I could go on with more examples but no doubt you will call me a racist, a bit like those religious zealots who when conformed with proof that god doesn't exist, simply get angry and stick there fingers in their ears singing “Kum ba yah my lord”
@38 Conor J,
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0So very true, Conor.
There are those nations(peoples?)who have made it in the modern world & those that have not.
When you compare a pair of nations with equal resources & equal opportunities but wildly different standards of living, then it can only come down to the mentality of the people.
Others call it racist if they want, it doesn't detract from the truth.
l consider myself to be a fair & just person & really couldn't care less what people call me(& that includes the tag “racist”).
Yes, l agree with you. Africa was far better off under British rule than it is “independent”.
And apart from the ruling elite, lndia was better off under British rule. An lndian, himself told me this, much to my initial surprise.
@39
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know its shocking how much opportunity and development we gave these countries and how much they have pissed it all away. My fathers friend worked over in one of the diplomatic offices in Kenya before independence and there was a pot hole outside his assigned building and 20 years later he came back to visit and the entire area had fallen into disarray but what struck him most was that the pot-hole was still there. That pretty much sums up the former colonies; we gave them everything and they have done nothing about it. India has developed greatly and impressively but still has a ways to go. I was equally shocked when I heard from several Indians now living in Britain who said exactly the same thing about the Raj era. And as you say, how is it racist to point out an obvious fact?
@6 Why send the Navy? Destroyers and frigates aren't too good in restricted waters like the Bay of Gibraltar. A squadron of Apache attack helicopters from the Army, however...........! Just imagine that chain gun cutting straight through a Guardia Civil boat. Hellfire missiles. CRV7 rockets.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Just have to explode you then, won't we?
@14 Actually, he didn't. Spanish and argies ALWAYS run away. Amazing, isn't it. How “argies” were fighting the Spanish in latam, while the British were beating Napoleon in Europe. Driven out of Portugal, then out of Spain, then across France. All with an army so much smaller, but so much better. Meanwhile, the Spanish, like argies, cowered.
@18 Oh please. Where are WE going to find an equal? In latam? Not a chance. Russia? Beaten them before. China? Beaten them before. United States? Best they've ever managed is a draw. Try to remember that WE are the politest, kindest, most helpful, generous people in the world. WE are also the worst enemy you could ever have! WE don't believe in defeat, except for the enemy!
@21 Will beating your head with a cricket bat do?
@30 You want an “octopus” back? Okay, next time we find one, we'll toss it over. Forgot how hungry you must be!
@31 Please. The argument of a loser. And Spain and latam are amongst the biggest losers in the world.
@36 And now you need the WHOLE WORLD to help you? Don't YOU have ANY guts?
@37 Don't see your point. One way or another, Britain has beaten virtually everyone. And the best argieland can do is call on every pipsqueak dictator for help? Seems kind of obvious. However, as you can see, the “Galactic Principle” makes CFK, Morales and Correa look stupid, virtually on a daily basis. It took Chavez for insulting our Queen. Just as a thought, you still kill people for being indigenous. That means it's THEIR land not YOURS. And YOU're STILL stealing!
@40 “And as you say, how is it racist to point out an obvious fact?”
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is racist to point out an obvious fact and use it to justify social darwinism. You cannot say that all humans are equal and then claim that some cultures are better than others. It's a contradiction created by political correctness, which is pure dishonesty. But you will never change your mind simply because you are the civilized, but we are the savages. It is the simple logic of the world:
poorer countries = subhuman
wealthy countries = human
colonies = subhuman
empires = human
Savages can only be human when they become civilized, but without being subjugated to the dominant culture. This is why I don't plan to live in the USA or the UK. I would be only admitting that I'm a subhuman. To be human we savages must defeat the civilized and become them.
This is the logic of the world. For a savage to accept Social Darwinism defended by the civilized is to accept his subhumanity. For a savage to become human its savage culture must make the civilized subhuman. It is sad that we all humans are equal but people can never accept it. Only through the big picture this can be seen. In the present there will be always two species of humans, one better than the other. The only progress made was the move from race eugenics, to some sort of cultural eugenics, which is still bad because people have almost no control over their own culture. I don't think we can ever move to a world that accepts all humans as equals, simply due to human nature.
Hopefully we Latinos move from guys like Chavez and make real attempts to surpass you. Maybe it won't happen in my lifetime but I hope it will eventually happen. It is the only way to recover our humanity.
@42
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh you had me teary eyed there sir, I was about to call the UN and say don't worry chaps everything is merry and rosy and that some cultures aren't useless but just “human.”
Back to reality, I never called anyone subhuman at all, I used the word 'superior' not 3rd Reich superior but just more sensible, and again I'am not being racist despite your nostalgic rant.
“ To be human we savages must defeat the civilized and become them.” Yeah that worked for the Peoples in western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire didn't it? 100-300 years after the fall of Rome and many Dark age Kings could only dream of being as literate and as advanced as the poorest in Rome's society all those years before.
poorer countries = waiting to be civilised
wealthy countries = Civilisation
colonies = Civilisation development
empires = Civilisation making (seems to have gone astray with Spain)
You still haven't provided me with evidence of at least one Hispanic country that has qualities of life like an Anglo one i.e Canada. Thats because you can't. I have nothing against anyone but at the end of the day the Anglo nations have advanced further in 10 years than most Hispanic nations have in the last 100. Case closed. Adios.
“Hopefully we Latinos move from guys like Chavez and make real attempts to surpass you. Maybe it won't happen in my lifetime but I hope it will eventually happen. It is the only way to recover our humanity.”
Good luck with that mate.
Social Darwinism, another Anglo invention that has been proved right again and again and again, even right now as you try to find excuses for the Hispanic nations abject failure in sorting themselves out.
well Spain is just getting back what belongs to them.....
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ moon face” (picardo) should try and cry a little less to Cameron
everytime he sees a Guardia civil boat...the guy is becoming a pain...
I have just come back from a visit to San Roque in Andalucia and found out
that thses people are the real decendents of Gibraltar with the “original” flag of Gibraltar and all the documents that their ancestors took with them when the Dutch and British attacked Gibraltar....
We predict that the British government will not increase naval presents in Gibraltar
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the following reasons==friendship-to expensive-against EU rules-against NATO rules – Against UN rules – trade at stake , the big spoilt boys won't allow it- to frightened of EU overlords , - mr Cameron has no balls,
- And it's not yet in our interests-bla blab la,
The British government will send in British military forces when it is to bloody late,
People start dying , Spain trespasses over the main border , Spanish navy sinks local ships and deaths accrue , royal navy gunboat [rowing boat sinks –deaths accrue , innocent people get killed,
Always does it take deaths for the British to take action in the last 30 odd years in our interest,,,, far too little,, far too late,
And against a backdrop of humiliation and death,,,
But for others==
Yes we know abt afghan , Libya , Iraq , ect ect, but these were not British—as more American interest,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Am I wrong, well let's hope so, for the sake of the loyal British Gibraltarians' ,
But if im right, Britain will once again drop down the do ladder, in favor of the do nothing ladder..
Just my opinion.
.
people believe that a “ little war” with Spain is a good thing to protect
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Moon Face (Picardo) and the people of Gibraltar....WAKE UP PEOPLE..
that will not happen because Spain and Great Britain have more in common than people believe. what Moon face should try and do is hit the gym and burn away those extra kilos or maybe chase the guardia civil boats around the harbour..that woulds burn a few kilos...
@46
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have something in common with Spain? You son of a *@^&/!
Seriously why would we get along with the abject failure of a nation like Spain who we have been rivals with for hundreds of years over our own people on the rock?
@44
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar was ceded in perpetuity to Britain by the Treaty of Utrecht. In return we gave them the island of Minorca.
Like the Falkland Islanders, the inhabitants DO have the 'right to self-determination,' a fundamental human right and as such, the rock will never be returned to the Spanish.
conor you silly man!! You live in the past like a defunct dinasour....
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell that to the half a million British nationals who have made Spain their home and are welcomed by the Spaniards....or the thousands of Spanish nationals who are working in The UK..or the thousands of British on holidays in Spain (having a good time) like the thousands I met in Pamplona on the running of the bulls....or the thousands who are having a wild time in Ibiza or the Canary islands....rivals my backside!!
49
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what has that got to do whith anything,
gibralter is not spannish full stop,
by the way,
can we have Minorca back then..lol
British Bob. Where did you get your history diploma? In a packet of Corn flakes??!! Minorca was lost by the British to the Spaniards in The Battle Of Minorca..IT WAS NOT GIVEN... This is one of the thousand battles that the British lost to Spain.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@48 - “Gibraltar was ceded in perpetuity to Britain by the Treaty of Utrecht”..... yes but under condition that moors or Jews were not to live there.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bye bye treaty.
Also; tactically pointless to send a bigger vessel - Spain will send two, politically expensive too, and probably financially. Ergo - not happening ... will take bets.
Genuinely - Any gibraltophiles know what would happen there in the case of GB leaving the EU.
Ah
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But we did beat the Armada,
Or was that all wind ..lol
.
@51
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This is one of the thousand battles that the British lost to Spain.” Oh yeah thats why Britain won most of the conflicts between the two countries and built the largest empire in human history while Spain's crashed and burnt. Where did you get your history diploma? Oh and fyi I was joking about the whole rivalry thing couldn't you tell?
@52
Yawn
@53
Actually the severe storms that wrecked the Spanish fleet occurred after the English had won the battle.
true,,
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Genuinely - Any gibraltophiles know what would happen there in the case of GB leaving the EU
If the UK left the EU, Gibraltar would Almost certainly follow,
And out of the EU, the royal navy would almost certainly re-new the base and you would see a much bigger presents there,
For gibralter to remain inside the EU would almost certainly encourage the nasty Spanish to come a knocking..
And Spain beat Vice Admiral Edward Vermon in his attempt to take Cartagena (Colombia).
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 030.000 military personnel..........4.000 Spaniards.
casualties.
British military personnel 9.500-11.000.....spanish 800 military personnel.
6 royal navy ships lost.
17 royal navy ships seriously damaged....
This loss was much greater than the Spanish Armada....
And NELSON beat them too.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0come on, why not blam the Romans or the Greeks.lol
@56
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes but the defeat of the Armada was 100 times more significant, a fully committed a professional fighting force of Spanish Navy and Marine forces beaten by (In the words of Drake himself) 'a navy of cheap merchantmen and privateers.' The first in along line of defeats that would culminate in Spain losing everything she had spent the previous 300 years building. Rule Britannia!
@56
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spanish Armada losses.
61 ships lost and 20.000 dead.
Not sure I agree with your definition of greater loss.
Look it up for yourself.
I did.
And also is it not TRUE,
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That in the eighteenths century, their were TWO SUPER POWERS for that time,
FRANCE AND SPAIN,
And little old BRITAIN beat them both ,together , HANDS DOWN ,
Now that’s what I call great..
.
Oh speaking about Admiral Nelson....did you know where he lost his arm??
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0well he lost it when he was fighting the Spaniards in The Canary Islands.
He lost that battle and the Spaniards lent Nelson a few schooners so he could get back to Britain and wait for this: The Spanish general allowed Nelson to leave with war honours and arms...A great act of chivalry on the Spanish side.. An act that Admiral Nelson cherished.
and he returnd the favour did he not at trafalger, and allowed the defeated to go home in peace .. mmm
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@61
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So?? We weren't disputing Spanish chivalry but her military victories, it must still sting for the economic superpower of the time (Armada era) to be so horribly beaten by the Heretic Protestant Britons.
ha ha .
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and today they are still smarting from it lol.
@64
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, and the fact that the so called almighty Spain still hasn't been able to remove the British from the rock in over 300 years, it proves that we are the better fighters if they cant even accomplish that.
Well there you have it..Britain has lost many battles against Spain...
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The original flag of gibraltar is in San Roque awaiting the day that it is returned to Gibraltar. It may take 300 hundred or a thousand years but that time will come. Granada was conquered after 800 years from the Moors so Gibraltar is not an exception....
Well in that case, the UK should start to worry round about 2550.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 54.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stuck ?
@66
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Well there you have it..Britain has lost many battles against Spain...” Yeah but no were near as many as Spain has lost to old Blighty.
It may take 300 hundred or a thousand years but that time will come...........Yeah, ehh...yeah.......No.
If Spain couldn't take Gibraltar back 300 years ago at the height of her power, what hope has she got now at the weakest point in her history with youth unemployment rocketing, a economy contracting and troubles in Catalina.
@67
Better add a few more centuries to that, this is Spain after all.
@68
No just bored with your endless drivel.
@43 “ Yeah that worked for the Peoples in western Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire didn't it? 100-300 years after the fall of Rome and many Dark age Kings could only dream of being as literate and as advanced as the poorest in Rome's society all those years before.”
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It took them a while but Western Europe eventually got better. And if Rome was so advanced why did they fall to the “barbarians”? Doesn't it contradict Social Darwinism?
“Social Darwinism, another Anglo invention that has been proved right again and again and again, even right now as you try to find excuses for the Hispanic nations abject failure in sorting themselves out.”
Bad news for you, you ARE a racist. But don't worry, eventually you will be proven wrong.
@70
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It took them a while but Western Europe eventually got better.” ?????????????
A WHILE?!?!?!? Most European cities wouldn't have in-built plumbing systems for another thousand years! and literacy rates only reached levels comparable to that of Rome's nearly 1500 years later!! Life expectancies fell below that of Rome's following the destruction of the Empire in the West and wouldn't rise again for hundreds of years.
Rome didn't so much as fall to the Barbarians as it did to itself as every other Roman general proclaimed himself emperor and this is coming from someone who usually sides with the so called 'Barbarians.' After all these people didn't beat Rome on the battle field but simply migrate in huge numbers overflowing the west. Barbarians is actually an incorrect term for the less advanced peoples as it was a Greek term for anyone who did not speak ancient Greek. Rome's fall proves another element of Social Darwinism; the destruction of the advanced by their own. In this case Rome destroyed itself, not the Barbarians.
Again I'am not a racist and you calling me one proves that you have lost the argument.
“Eventually you will be proven wrong.” Doubt it.
@ 34 Marcos Alejandro
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I bet you crapped yourself when you saw that man in his uniform. Put the ‘fear of god’ in you, eh? How long did it take you to get out from under the bed?
@ 37 MagnusMaster
Perhaps, like TTT, you should get out of that place you call a country and go abroad to see a real country like Britain.
Don’t be frightened; they won’t eat you, in fact if you act like a proper grown up the people of Britain will make a friend of you. We have with the idiot sponger Marcos Alejandro so you will be welcomed with open arms.
Could you say the same about the people called Peronistas who infest your country? I don’t think so.
@ 42 MagnusMaster
“Hopefully we Latinos move from guys like Chavez and make real attempts to surpass you. Maybe it won't happen in my lifetime but I hope it will eventually happen. It is the only way to recover our humanity.”
There is a much quicker and simpler way for Argentina to recover it’s once great status: get rid of the lies taught in your schools, get rid of the corruption at all levels of society including the citizens who think putting one over on the tax department is getting away with it. These idiots don’t even realise they are robbing themselves. And, the most important thing of all, get shot of the Peronistas.
You would probably have no-one left in the country but at least you would then be able to hold your head up with the rest of the world.
There: I told you it was quicker and simpler than you thought. :o)
69 - righto. evasion it is then. dont be ashamed to admit.
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@71 Conor J,
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One of the main causes of the collapse of the Roman Empire, was disease.
The plague decimated the Legions many times.
lt has recently been discovered that many Roman cities had drinking water delivered in lead pipes & tests on the bones from cemeteries of those cities show a very high lead content.
Another silent killer.
Of course there was moral decay & the pressure of barbarian peoples knocking at the door.
Endless civil wars didn't help either.
The Roman Empire had many fine qualities but it came at a price.
@53 Briton,
“And God sent the wind & they were scattered”
l have no sympathy for the Spaniards who were going to invade England.
Especially when l now know what they had planned for us.
They had more Priests than Gunners on board & each ship was equipped with ropes & nooses to hang every man & boy in the country. l presume the women & girls were to be enslaved.
The Spanish got what they deserved.
l do, however,have compassion for the Cavalry Horses that were confined below decks.
lt must have been hell on earth for those poor innocent creatures locked into the holds of a heaving, rolling galleon in the North Sea.
Drenched in freezing water, thrown against each other & wooden dividers & bulkheads.
How many would have endured broken legs, or puncture wounds from splintered timbers?
They finally to drown as the ship sank.
Another example of man's inhumanity to God's dumb creatures.
@73
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No but the fact that countless others on this site have proven you wrong yet you insist on going on and on like a typical whiny Argie child.
@74
Thats very interesting regarding disease, I knew that the various plague outbreaks were damaging but I was not aware of that business regarding lead piping. Another killer of the Roman empire was of course cost, it has been estimated that their occupation of Britain (usually 3 legions and around 1/10 of the armies auxiliaries) would be the equivalent of 10s of Billions of pounds in the modern calculation.
Also regarding the Spanish horses, after the battle, when the Spanish began their disastrous retreat they were running low on water and food as so many ships throw their horses over board or in a few cases ate them, they also did it to reduce the structural pressure (excess weight) on their already crippled hulls from the battle, very cruel if you ask me.
@71 “Again I'am not a racist and you calling me one proves that you have lost the argument. ”
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Social Darwinism IS racism, dimwit. What you say is exactly what Hitler and every single genocide say. You are nothing more than a British who feels superior and wants to kill or enslave us Latinos and Africans and all other “inferior” races. How that doesn't make you a racist?
@72 “
Perhaps, like TTT, you should get out of that place you call a country and go abroad to see a real country like Britain.
Don’t be frightened; they won’t eat you, in fact if you act like a proper grown up the people of Britain will make a friend of you. We have with the idiot sponger Marcos Alejandro so you will be welcomed with open arms..”
You don't listen do you? I'll never going to live with people who can't respect the basic humanity of other people. If you call Latinos inferior you call ME inferior, and I'll never EVER going to befriend such people. You think I'm going to be welcomed with open arms if you have people like Conor calling me and my kind inferior and useless. I'm NEVER going to allow myself to be subjugated by your kind, NEVER. If you don't want to respect me as a fellow human just as capable as you are then I want nothing with you.
@76
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Social Darwinism IS racism, dimwit. What you say is exactly what Hitler and every single genocide say. You are nothing more than a British who feels superior and wants to kill or enslave us Latinos and Africans and all other “inferior” races. How that doesn't make you a racist?”
Who said anything about enslaving?, I have pointed out to you that Africans were better ruled by Europeans and I have also shown that there is not an Hispanic nation out there with qualities of life superior to that of an Anglo one. Yet you keep calling me a racist. Why? because you have lost the argument and you know that I'am right. I didn't degrade Latinos or any other race, I didn't mock skin colour, accent or cultural background. I pointed out that the Anglo-sphere nations are better of then the Hispanic sphere of nations. If you call me a racist again then I doubt I will reply if you keep coming up with the same weak excuse. Good night.
Oh and btw YOU appear to be the one with a racist/culture inferiority complex with your need to degrade me as a racist while completely ignoring the basic point of my argument.
@77 “ I have pointed out to you that Africans were better ruled by Europeans and I have also shown that there is not an Hispanic nation out there with qualities of life superior to that of an Anglo one. Yet you keep calling me a racist. Why? because you have lost the argument and you know that I'am right. I didn't degrade Latinos or any other race, I didn't mock skin colour, accent or cultural background. I pointed out that the Anglo-sphere nations are better of then the Hispanic sphere of nations. If you call me a racist again then I doubt I will reply if you keep coming up with the same weak excuse. Good night.”
Jul 23rd, 2013 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You claim British are superior to Latinos. THAT is degrading.
Magnus
Jul 24th, 2013 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0As far as your claim that the British wish to subjugate/conquer Latinos...more than any other comment this infuriates me on these boards.
Latinos in South America are mass genocidal colonialists. They are guilty of every crime they throw towards the British and worse, yet they want to play themselves as victims.
Latinos in South America have been subjugated BY EACH OTHER, and through a series of the most corrupt and self serving governments on the Planet. Again they are only victims of themselves!
74 lsolde
Jul 24th, 2013 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks,
As for Cavalry Horses, even today they look great..
//////////////////////////////////////////
UPDATE//UPDATE..
Are we great or not..
Or are the French Italians and Spanish more powerful,
Gulp lol ha ha …latest new Read on and enjoy.
//////////////////////////////
Navy's new Astute class hunter-killer subs enter service
The Navy’s two most advanced hunter-killer submarines ever have entered service
HMS Astute and HMS Ambush
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10191427/Navys-new-Astute-class-hunter-killer-subs-enter-service.html
…………………………………………………………..
Is Royal Navy in decline? Mike from the UK doesn't think so
This is interesting reading….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10191427/Navys-new-Astute-class-hunter-killer-subs-enter-service.html
…………………………………………..
Royal Navy hosts Japanese warships in Portsmouth
Rear Admiral Fumiyuki Kitagawa was reputed and might of said,
If ya need any help with those nasty argies,,give us a call, we could with a laugh..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10191427/Navys-new-Astute-class-hunter-killer-subs-enter-service.html
.
@79 Whatever Latinos do doesn't give you the right to degrade us with master race speech.
Jul 24th, 2013 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well Said.6 Think (#)
Jul 25th, 2013 - 05:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let them send the Navy.....
That wil teach them Continentals a lesson :-)))........The historical FACTS are recorded for everyone to read senorita “Think”...so really no use debateing them..However...read on....
Drake he's in his hammock an' a thousand miles away,
(Capten, art tha sleepin' there below?)
Slung atween the round shot in Nombre Dios Bay,
An' dreamin' arl the time O' Plymouth Hoe.
Yarnder lumes the Island, yarnder lie the ships,
Wi' sailor lads a-dancing' heel-an'-toe,
An' the shore-lights flashin', an' the night-tide dashin',
He sees et arl so plainly as he saw et long ago.
Drake he was a Devon man, an' ruled the Devon seas,
(Capten, art tha' sleepin' there below?)
Roving' tho' his death fell, he went wi' heart at ease,
A' dreamin' arl the time o' Plymouth Hoe.
“Take my drum to England, hang et by the shore,
Strike et when your powder's runnin' low;
If the Dons sight Devon, I'll quit the port o' Heaven,
An' drum them up the Channel as we drumm'd them long ago.”
Drake he's in his hammock till the great Armadas come,
(Capten, art tha sleepin' there below?)
Slung atween the round shot, listenin' for the drum,
An' dreamin arl the time o' Plymouth Hoe.
Call him on the deep sea, call him up the Sound,
Call him when ye sail to meet the foe;
Where the old trade's plyin' an' the old flag flyin'
They shall find him ware an' wakin', as they found him long ago
@82 El capitano,
Jul 25th, 2013 - 06:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0When l was in high school in Australia on recitals night my best friend recited Drakes Drum(l think thats what your poem is called), while l did “The Lady of Shallot”.
We tied for first prize.
l always thought the last line of the second verse was, “And we'll thrash them up the Channel where we thrashed them long ago”
Childish mind playing tricks, probably.
Thanks for the memory.
And the spannish were at it AGAIN today,
Jul 25th, 2013 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the british responce,
we will talk to them........
we will reap what we sow,
and what we are sowing aint very nice..
84 Briton (#)....Take a deep breath my friend....The Brits always play their hand very carefully,and trust me when they have finally had enough ...Spain once again will wind up with shit on its face...Thats just the way it is,let the spicks do their thing,then spank them....!!
Jul 26th, 2013 - 02:21 am - Link - Report abuse 085=you may be right, but enough is surley enough.
Jul 26th, 2013 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
TENSE STANDOFF IN BRITISH WATERS AS REEF PROJECT IS COMPLETED
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=30220
By this time there were three Guardia Civil boats at the scene, the Rio Tormes, the Rio Cedeña and a rigid-hull inflatable boat. The Royal Gibraltar Police, the Gibraltar Defence Police and the Royal Navy’s Gibraltar Squadron had seven boats there in total
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
How much longer will cammy Ron Ron sit on his backside?
How much longer before someone is killed.
It seems national or sovereign pride is lost on our stupid politicians.
//////////////////////////
And where praise be is the ships to protect them,
Languishing here drinking tea.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=30220
just a thought….
86) I agree it must be incredibly frustrating for the Gibratarians, but the UK is not going to deploy heavily armed ships! The Govt. isn't going to risk a Spanish vessel being sunk. the political fallout would be huge. Now they have put the blocks in, the Spanish fishermen cannot use their nets/rakes, problem solved.
Jul 26th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l'm with Briton.
Jul 26th, 2013 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A more robust response is necessary.
Sink a couple of Spanish boats & l'll bet London to a brick that the rest would scarper & never return.
Problem solved.
Maybe, just maybe, the Spanish are trying to provoke the UK into some physical confrontation. Provided the Spanish do nothing to endanger life, ignore them. Annoying yes, but Escalating the situation will not resolve the problem.
Jul 27th, 2013 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for La Linea, the last time I was there the multi story blocks of flats seemed to be full of Moroccans - not Spanish.
the Spanish fishermen cannot use their nets/rakes, problem solved=
Jul 27th, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if only
SPANISH CLAMPDOWN CAUSES BORDER CHAOS IN SWELTERING HEAT
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=30237
as Spain tightened its border controls in the wake of the standoff at sea on Thursday.
As this edition went to press, some drivers had already spent five hours in the queue and were being told that they could expect to wait several hours more
Britain’s protest to Spain for the millionth time.
Tarik el Yabani captured the mood on Twitter.
“We ask, nay, DEMAND the British government fulfill its constitutional duties and defend Gibraltar,” he wrote.
When When,..
Maybe it is time Gibraltar turned to Morocco for its supplies of fruit and veg. as they did decades ago. It would hit Spain harder than Gibraltar.
Jul 27th, 2013 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps for the sake of sanity,,,
Jul 27th, 2013 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Gibraltarians should have a meeting,, and say SOD IT , close the bloody gates.
This will encourage more ships, and less hassle.
The local 10,000 that was employed can complain and protest to their government,
The Spanish government will get a nasty headache,
Cameron can still in his parlor counting his pennies,
Gibraltar will be happy,
Go on, at least give it a try..
.
Hi Briton,
Jul 27th, 2013 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The majority of the incursions are due to the fishing issues. The border problems are a seperate issue and is not a recent tactic. I would have thought that those who suffer the most from this disgusting action would be the Spannish workers, commuting to and fro.
very true,
Jul 27th, 2013 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but sadly they have a goverment that cares not,
and are just trying to diswade from the internal problems..
Does anybody know if employers on the rock can use late/none attendance of staff through border actions by the Spanish towards laying off staff that live in Spain? I think about 5000 commute to the rock every day, and it would be interesting to see the Spanish public response to job losses.
Jul 27th, 2013 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very true.
Jul 27th, 2013 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 095 screenname
Jul 27th, 2013 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent thought!
The EU would probably pick the bill up in the end so that means the Brits GBP 53 Million a day would take another knock.
But I really hope the 5,000 Spanish get the heave-ho, they voted for the bastards causing this after all.
One the one hand, you have mr holland of the frenchies wanting union friendship and loyalty,
Jul 28th, 2013 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and on the other hand you have the spannish, busy stabbing those friends in the back,
alas the mighty EU turns a blind eye.
still,
come back nelson..lol
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