MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK reiterates commitment to Gibraltar and calls on Spain for a political answer to differences
The Foreign Office on Sunday reasserted ties with Gibraltar and its commitment with the British Overseas Territory sovereignty but at the same time called for a political answer to the current situation with Spain that is implementing disproportionate measures such as border delays. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWell done Spain.
Aug 04th, 2013 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good on you. Put an end to this colonial oddity.
Just as British people would if the case was in the inverse/contrary.
@1
Aug 04th, 2013 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're not very bright are you? What about Spain's colonial oddities on the North African coast coast??? Hypocrisy on your part maybe?
Separate issue.
Aug 04th, 2013 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cases differ in many ways.
Also there was a strategic necessity for Spain to maintain Ceuta in direct proportion to Britain's fooling around in Gibraltar.
Are you suggesting all oversea territories/enclaves be removed ?
On mercopress ? How about the Malvinas.
Tell me British people wouldn't want the same situation Spain has on a piece of Cornwall. Thats right, you won't.
@3
Aug 04th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Separate issue.
Cases differ in many ways.”
In what ways? Britain owns Land that was once Spanish but isn't anymore, Spain owns land that was Moroccan but it isn't anymore. What possible difference is there, other than your bias and the fact that Spain owns more territory on the N. African coast then Britain does with its tiny spec, that is Gibraltar.
“Strategic necessity”, that bollocks, in tat case Argentina might as well just grab a chunk load of Uruguay. Also Britain didn't fool around with Gibraltar, if you looked back through history you would realise that it has given her control to the gateway of the Med.
“Are you suggesting all oversea territories/enclaves be removed ?
On mercopress ? How about the Malvinas.”
No I'm pointing out your utter hypocrisy in the matter.
Wheres the hypocrisy ?
Aug 04th, 2013 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I never condoned the Spanish overseas territories.
That bit about controlling the Med, obviously Spain would also want to control the Mediterranean, thus Ceuta is/was maintained to counter Britain's presence in Spain. (aka Gibraltar)
@5
Aug 04th, 2013 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you knew history, and you obviously don't then you would realise that Spain took over a a large chunk of Morocco not just Ceuta. They did it because they wanted power just like us. After all Spain didn't get control of this area until 1688 and the rest of the Morocco territory until 1912. 200 years after they lost Gib and and control of the Med and all the other worlds oceans went to Britain. Ceuta had nothing to do with controlling the Med as Spain couldn't control it anyway, despite having the entire nation siting right on top of it! By 1912 Spain was a worn out relic of the great empire it had been. Spain took over Ceuta because it was a stop of point, not to control the med, which was difficult in 1688 as France was on the rise.
(speaking of worn out relics of empires)
Aug 04th, 2013 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ceuta ...may...have been negotiated since, were it not for Britain still wanting to have influence in the Mediterranean.
Anyhoo..... tell me that British people would tolerate a Spanish enclave on the British coast.
And before the Treaty of Utrecht comes out again lets just consider how many treaties and agreements to which Britain has said ...yeeeah well you see turns out that we're going to take it anyway.
Back to the present, I think that reef will be coming up soon enough.
Whats Britain doing still messing around in far flung places in 2013 anyway, and doing itself more harm than good.
@7
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lost the argument and so you divert away I see.
“Ceuta ...may...have been negotiated since, were it not for Britain still wanting to have influence in the Mediterranean.”
Unlikely its been Spanish property for 330 years, 30 years before Britain got Gibraltar, the population in Ceuta and the other enclaves are entailed to self determination, as is Gibraltar.
“Anyhoo..... tell me that British people would tolerate a Spanish enclave on the British coast.”
There wouldn't be one because unlike Spain we are capable of removing those we don't want from our door stop. The British people wouldn't care if there was an enclave because unlike Spain we aren't Butt sore over losing part of our own coast to a foreign power in such a humiliating way. Many countries have enclaves on or near their shores and they don't complain;
1 Bermuda is nearer to the US, not a peep from them,
2 France still has an island on Canadian shores and they don't mention it.
3 Britain has the channel islands a few miles of France and they don't claim them.
4 St Helena and the other S. Atlantic territories are close to several African nations and they don't claim them.
5 Several Dutch territories sit right off Venezuela and they don't claim them.
There are more cases as well.
6 Canada doesn't claim Greenland does it?
Haven't thought it through have you?
“And before the Treaty of Utrecht comes out again lets just consider how many treaties and agreements to which Britain has said ...yeeeah well you see turns out that we're going to take it anyway.” Oh yeah because the Spanish are renowned for honesty and fair play aren't they?
“Whats Britain doing still messing around in far flung places in 2013 anyway, and doing itself more harm than good.” We have never much cared about what others think of us, you don't create the largest empire in human history by being image-consious. They are the remains of our empire and they have chosen to stay with us, and there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing.
@8 “...there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing.” Except whine. A lot.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1
Aug 05th, 2013 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why is it OK for Portugal not to be Spanish, but not OK for Gibraltar not to be Spanish?
Vestige,
Aug 05th, 2013 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't we really turn the clock back, and give the majority of Spain to Morocco, since they owned Spain for 711 years?
And before the Muslims it was the Vandalls, and before the Vandalls it was the Romans, and before the Romans...etc....
International law doesn't recognise what used to be, it recognises what is coupled with the right to self-determination.
If self-determination did not apply, then no doubt Spain would be bitching on about how most of South America belongs to them, and it's 'unfair' that these colonials dare to defy them.
The hypocrisy of your arguments is astounding, as is the hypocrisy of Spain's position.
@8 Vestige
Aug 05th, 2013 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0If Cornwall had been part of another country for 300 years, ceded to Spain by Britain then it would certainly remain Spanish unless the Cornish decided to become british rather than Spanish. And the evidence is (besides the countless countries that have got independence from the british empire) that next year Scotland could disconnect from the rest of Britain. We play the democracy game by the book, Spain's current incumbents certainly do not and with every swipe at Gib, Spain looks to itself more harm than anyone else. Gib has been part of Britain longer than America has had independence, longer than any south American country has existed. Spain's credibility counts for nothing if it signs treaties with one hand and disregards them at the drop of a hat. How you do business with a country that behaves as a hypocritical petulant child.
Picardo is now my favourite Politician ;)
Aug 05th, 2013 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Hell will freeze over before we bow to Spain - Gibraltar's defiant message to Madrid -
GIBRALTAR’S chief minister said this morning that “hell will freeze over” before it removes an artificial reef that has angered Spanish fishermen and which has led to what many see as a road blockade of the Rock.
Fabian Picardo said the reef was required for Gibraltar’s economy and was no different to others built by Spain in its own coastal waters.
And he said Spanish threats to close its airspace around the Mediterranean outpost would make landings more difficult for pilots and so endanger the lives of passengers.
He accused Spain of acting like North Korea and sabre-rattling over the country's new hard-line stance on Gibraltar.
Madrid’s foreign minister Jose Garcia-Margallo has become increasingly belligerent in his language, threatening to impose a toll charge of 50 euros (£43.40) on vehicles entering and leaving the British Overseas Territory...'
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/419786/Hell-will-freeze-over-before-we-bow-to-Spain-Gibraltar-s-defiant-message-to-Madrid
@7
Aug 05th, 2013 - 05:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you discount the democratic principles of self-determination, which you clearly do, then all territories are won or lost in war?
Are you a betting man?
What has history taught the Spanish where the British are concerned?
Who would you put your money on?
@7
Aug 05th, 2013 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously don't understand history, because Spain is trying to claim that the Treaty of Utrecht should be applied and that this means that Gibraltar has no right to claim the waters around it.
But you see, if they apply Article X of the treaty, they must also comply with Article XI of the same treaty which states that the Island of Menorca is also British. I don't see Spain intending to hand back Menorca any time soon.
The truth is that Spain cannot take the Gibraltar Territorial Waters dispute to the International Courts, because they would lose. Spain's top law officer admitted years ago that they did not have a case. They would lose. So instead of being humiliated (like Argentina) they would rather acted like children having a tantrum and throw their toys out of the pram.
The EU Commission will tell Spain to behave, because if they don't, Spain will not receive any financial support.
The EU Troika know that the Gibraltar dispute could end with Britain leaving the European Union. UKIP will be the beneficiaries of any failure by the British Government to resolve this confrontation swiftly.
@7 Why would we want to consider a Spanish enclave on the British coast? There isn't one. There are two reasons for this. First of all, Spain is incapable of successfully fighting against anyone unless the opposition only has bows and arrows and spears. Second, Spaniards are cowards. Much like argies actually. Shall we start with the War of the Spanish Succession? A war that England effectively won, because everybody else, including Spain, lost. The War of the Quadruple Alliance. Lost by Spain. The Seven Years' War. Lost by Spain. Oh dear. Spain hasn't dared do anything against Britain since. And, no, the reef won't be coming up. In fact, I reckon Gibraltar will create more.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I like to continue to press my government to send a squadron of Apache attack helicopters, a couple of Trojan armoured engineering vehicles, some Warrior IFVs and some Eurocopter Squirrels. The Squirrels patrol, the Apaches destroy any marine incursions, the Trojans destroy the Spanish border structures and the Warriors destroy anything that tries to interfere. There is a little boat called the “Divina Providencia”. It can be distinguished because it has a captain/owner with a mouth twice the size of the boat. This is a good vessel to sink so that we can see whether the captain/owner can touch bottom with his foot. Breathing is optional.
David Cameron 'seriously concerned' over Gibraltar dispute with Spain
Aug 05th, 2013 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0David Cameron has said he is “seriously concerned” about the escalation of tensions over the border between Spain and Gibraltar. -
Spain has warned that it is ready to impose a new border tax, close its airspace to planes using the British overseas territory's airport, and investigate the affairs of Gibraltarians with Spanish economic interests.
“Clearly, we remain seriously concerned by the events at the Spain/Gibraltar border,” the Prime Minister's spokesman said.
“Specifically on this issue of border fees, the Spanish have not raised the prospect of introducing border fees with us. We are seeking an explanation from them regarding reports that they might target Gibraltar with further measures.”
The Government is in “close contact” with the Spanish about the issue, but the spokesman refused to give further details about what the next steps might be...'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10223065/David-Cameron-seriously-concerned-over-Gibraltar-dispute-with-Spain.html
By Argentinean standards the UK has loads of enclaves...the Frenchies are a hell of a lot closer to the UK than Falklanders are to Argentina. I quite like it really: vive la difference, and all that.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the plastic Spanish in Latin America were a bit more tolerant some Argentineans in BA might find that having English-speaking people over a 1000miles away is not really that bad.
I love how #8 just arbitrarily decides he's won something, whatever its supposed to be lol. (and he misses the highlighted 'may')
Aug 05th, 2013 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then the tone changes several times from the turnips.
We'd kick Spanish azz !! .... but we do support democracy and would allow a Spanish enclave because we're above all that, they're all cowards ... but we respect others ...not like the rg's.
lolol
Then General conqueror is at it again.
“The Squirrels patrol, the Apaches destroy any marine incursions, the Trojans destroy the Spanish border structures ”
lolol
“I'd bet my money on Britain if I was you”
Yet again, now listen this time. Britain cannot muster the forces to invade Spain, Britain would be squarely on the losing end of an incursion into Spain. Im sorry if you dislike that reality, but its the truth. Let your arguments settle on economics, diplomacy and law if you wish, but don't bring military intervention into this issue its a guaranteed lose. And a bit childish, as with the inconsequential finger pointing at Spain's sins.
Cant figure what the Spaniards are on about. I think its the same as with the Falklands, it upsets them to continually see highly successful Anglo Saxon possessions right on their doorstep. Spain was the country that had it all then lost the lot. After the awful Franco period where they were best mates with the Nazis they had a brief period as a low tech industrial country and screwdriver plant destination. But all that has now moved to Asia and they are left with an economy of supplying peppers and tomatos, waiters and chambermaids to the rest of northern Europe. Bit like RGland really. Lots of Angst, jealousy, anger and loss of face as personified by Gollum and his trolls here. All fur coat and no knickers...
Aug 05th, 2013 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Captain, I think that's spot on. With massive unemployment in Spain, especially amongst youngsters, eating out in London, you are almost certain to be served by a young Spaniard. Even up in the Hebrides they are plentiful. Spain, along with the othe Club Med countries is a failed state and it must be really galling to have a thriving Gibraltar on your doorstep. The surrounding Spanish province is dirt poor and anything standing between them and a few sardines works them up into a frenzy. It has great parallels with RGland which fasley claims only 7% unemploment. The poor Spanish kids emigrating there will almost certainly end up as a Cartonero living in a crime ridden squalid villa.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a feature of the Latinos to bellyache about successful small British countries rather than put their noses to the grindstone and work their own way out of poverty. There is no hope for either Spain or RGland because they aren't tackling their internal problems like we Brits are.
@19 Vestige
Aug 05th, 2013 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be a plank all your life, Britain's naval capability far exceeds your own as does its air force and we have a standing army with more professionalism and genuine experience than the anything Spain has, so let us not argue the toss as you have lost. No diplomacy is the only way foreword and believe you me, Britain can play that game better than anyone. You had better leave Gibraltar alone or we'll use Barbary Monkeys to harass your belligerent border guards, one they've put down their bowls of paella !
@19 Vestige:
Aug 05th, 2013 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”I love how #8 arbitrarily decides he's won something, whatever it's supposed to be lol.”
But you'd never do the same would ya? Noooo not you. Lol, your chuzpah is epic ( or at Clarkson would put it: 'positively biblical' ).
And you're going to operate this airforce WHERE Musky.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fly above a few hundred sam sites with the Spanish airforce for company. ? Good luck
And you're going to operate this army WHERE Musky.
Over 100 Spanish waiting for any infantry you can send.
And you're going to land armor WHERE Musky.
Probably 20 Spanish tanks waiting for any one you can land.
If they ever do land.
Besides Spain has an aircraft carrier ... you don't lol.
23 -Heisenberg. Show me where.
(yes my chutzpah may be a bit bigger than yours)
@19 Quite funny actually. Let's remember the “unconquerable” argie forces in 1982. Except there were 11,313 POWs and huge mounds of captured equipment. Now, just to give you a clue, Spain has 50 Typhoons. The RAF has 100. The Spanish have 86 Hornets. The RAF has 119 Tornados. The Spanish have 327 main battle tanks. The British Army have over 400 unbeatable Challenger 2s. And let's not forget. Like argieland, Spain doesn't know how to fight a war. Spain hasn't fought a war since the 40s. It would stand no chance against the UK's combat-experienced troops.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Besides Spain has an aircraft carrier, you don't.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very true, now how many hunter killer submarines do they have?
you know what they are, you should do.
LOL.
All a load of bollocks anyway, because the UK and Spain will never get into armed conflict over Gibraltar.
Well, lets hope it doesn't come to war. It would cut off UKs tomato and pepper supplies, loads of UK pensioners would be interned at Spanish expense and all the Manuels would have to go home. All those Spanish fishing boats in our waters could provide the Navy with target practice, meanwhile Lanoustines, crabs scallops, ling, halibut and cod would be off the menu for every Spaniard.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Without 5 million British tourists and British residents Spain would collapse and all the sunbeds would immediately claimed by Germans demanding Snitzel and sauerkraut. I think the Germans will be much more demanding than the British.
Its not in their interest...
@24 Vestige:
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Show me where'. Sorry, no dice, my beloved is crooking her finger at me.
Your chutzpah may be bigger than mine but you know what they say...
@24
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige
We won't be going to war with Spain, it is always worthwhile pointing out who is the larger military power. Rajoy isn't flavour of the month in Europe, Spain is getting an IMF warning a week and they are expected to have over 25% unemployment for many years to come.
This behaviour has been taken straight from the Kirchner text book and has got Argentina precisely nowhere.
The mayor of Linea is furious about what their government are doing because Gibraltar is their main employer.
The EU will not be happy with Spain about this as it is a gift to UKIP. Like all things it comes down to money. Who pays more into the EU, Spain or the UK???
The Unions are not to happy about it either, persecuting Spanish workers in the current economic climate in Spain? deffinate vote loser!
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 Faz
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was hoping it would be war...I've already bagged the hotel room I'll be appropriating for the duration. :)
The real problem is that we never go to war with a country that has decent 5 star hotels...I thought this time, maybe...just maybe. ;D
@29 Agree with you 100%. Mind you, we will have to send Royal Marines to deal with any Blockade.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good stats Conqueror - Now how are you going to land them at a rate to make a dent. How are those aircraft going to fight above battery's of sams.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Plus things could get ugly if any civilians from LaLinea lost any relatives.
So no.
Thankfully like that other guy said, theres not going to be any war. So the idle tabloid dreamer chatter of apaches and super marines can now stop. Keep it real nga.
Lets put this in context, the good news is that rain stopped play and we retained the Ashes! Be joyful and fullsome praise for our Aussie cousins. Your fightback was fantastic you just got defeated by our bloody weather. There is no justice! Still, 2 matches to go, lots more fun for cricket fans around the globe.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@33
Aug 05th, 2013 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed. Pressure will be put on Spain from the EU, with all the financial problems to resolve, they are not going to tolerate all this crap from from a basket case country that is corrupt and relying on handouts.
It is obvious to everyone why Spain is doing this, for Christ sake, Gibralrar hasn't been part of Spain for over 300 yrs, what the hell do they think they are going to achieve?
First of,
Aug 05th, 2013 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It’s an in possability to talk to an indocronoughts .,
They have no interest in Britain or the rights of man,
Just the rule of indoctrination , and Spain is in the right, and argentina is in the right, and all else is irrelevant.
So why bother, when the outcome is already fated, so ignore them,
It is in the EU interest this does not go bad,
It’s in Spains interest it does not go bad,
Trust your intuition, Spain WILL be forced into a humiliating U-Turn.
And these indocronoughts argie bloggers will just move on to the next topic …..
………………….
.
An indoctronought - is that like some kind of indoctrinated person.... a kind of zombie ?
Aug 05th, 2013 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One that is always in the right and doesn't respect human rights ?
Sounds like a troublesome creature. Where are they ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcwsfns7KPQ
'Spain 'must follow EU law' on Gibraltar border checks'
Aug 05th, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23578559
'Spanish practices - Gibraltar is about as Spanish as Jersey is French'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23578559
@38 steve-33
Aug 05th, 2013 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too right. EU tells spain to be good europeans. Britain keeps calm and will prevail.
My!! This forum is full of uneducated nerds!! Why don´t you all google:
Aug 05th, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The difference between ceuta,melilla and gibraltar and LEARN SOMETHING.NERDS!! instead of crapping on about something you all knownothing!! it is bloody embarassing to read your comments!!
SPAIN DEFENDS WHAT IT SEE.S FIT....AND END OF STORY.
you are all like a pack of wolves attacking one prey......It has always been like this in the anglosaxon society..to attack in packs because alone you are dead meat..I speak on experience, believe me. Too many pommies bit the floor many years ago.......
I congratulate Spain on its stand and hope it is not all hot air...because if it is gibraltar will feed on its indecision.......
Wow! All them pommies hitting the floor.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What yah mates call yah sport?
Crocodile Dungdee?
More like Manuel the Mouth!
* 41 you´ve proved my point!! You¨re a total nerd!!
Aug 05th, 2013 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's with the funny cap sport.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca8ooos8vu0
He is a life saver on the beach (70´s). Top show!!
Aug 05th, 2013 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34 Faz:
Aug 06th, 2013 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers
@44 aussie sunshine:
Your credibilty is eroding by the post.
@24 Vestige
Aug 06th, 2013 - 02:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your carriers, small fun-size beasts. Our carrier, ok, helicopters and stuff, with the 'big boy' carriers under construction, however Britain is a mere 2000 miles from Gib with plenty of military targets en-route and besides, our sub fleet can decimate your navy.
So don't play games with us, reign in your war mongering politicians and play at being adults. Do we fret over the loss of America, a mere 237 years ago, do we fret over the loss of India, a mere 66 years ago, do we fret over loosing Australia or Ireland? Do the Mexicans fret over loosing Texas a mere 167 years ago, no. Do the Morrocans fret over loosing Gibraltar? Fuck me, we had 1.5 of the world at one time, are we fretting? No.
Grow up.
Love that last bit
Aug 06th, 2013 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0“we had 1.5 of the world at one time” then “Grow up”
Thats quite the list of countries you've lost...
I don't propose you fret about anything, Im merely pointing out to the 'conqueror' characters on here that no they won't decimate Spain or invade and kick Spains ass, that in all likelihood Britain would get its ass kicked if it tried.
Im trying to let them know that Britain doesn't have the ability to do these things, I'm met with denial.
“Im sure there are plenty of targets en route” yes they're called sam sites.
This is becoming repetitive, so Ill just end it here, the Spanish military has ~140,000 individuals waiting and the 'fit for service' in the millions and can manufacture the weapons to arm them.
Can Britain put enough personnel in Spain to overcome this ?
How many personnel can Britain even move?
How long will it take to organize this invasion?
How will these personnel be transported?
How will they land?
How will their supply lines function?
How much civilian medical, intel and logistic support will Britain have?
How much of the above will Spain have?
How much guerrilla resistance can be expected?
How many dug up roads and trapped bridges will there be?
How much armor can even be landed?
How many transports might be sunk given Spains high tech and sizable navy?
How will all this be done in the area of 5500 enemy combat vehicles?
How will you fuel your vehicles?
How long can your air-force stay in the air for during this invasion?
How will they find moving targets in such a big country?
How many airfields are available to Spain, how may to you?
and lastly....if (by wishing upon a falling star, ridden by Jesus himself) Britain overcomes all this ..How long til it leaves....and How long til the 30,000 Gibraltarians get massacred in revenge.
Britain is militarily incapable of beating Spain on its own soil.
Thats all there is to it.
@47
Aug 06th, 2013 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont think these people are suggesting and Invasion Vestige, even the mighty USA would be incapable of invading Spain or Britain for that matter.
I think what they mean by “arse kick” Spain is some sort of Naval/ Air scenario whereby the twos navies engage each other and Britain's and Spain's air forces meet somewhere between the two countries over the Atlantic, in those two scenarios Britain would win but a fully fledged invasion is just ridiculous, neither country would be capable of invading the other, heck Spain would find it almost impossible to invade little Portugal.
Only two little problems with that.
Aug 06th, 2013 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 01.No General would ever give up the home advantage.
2.Gibraltar is attached to Spain.
So on the issue of Gibraltar, there is only a defeat waiting, Spain could march through that border this very second and theres nothing Britain could do to take it back.
A bit of a knock to the ego, yes, but maybe thats what the bad-azzes in here need.
37 Vestige
Aug 06th, 2013 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An indoctronought - is that like some kind of indoctrinated person.... a kind of zombie ?
Ha ha not quite,
More like a dalek, lol.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
40 aussie sunshine
Wrong again,
You can only defend what is yours,
Gibraltar is not Spanish, the Falkland’s are not argentine,
And more importantly ,,neither Spain or argentina belongs to Britain..lol.
,,,,,,,
47 Vestige
Hey espalier senior.lol.
Read this, its sensible and logical ,
And Spain will eventually follow the rule of law, for its better to be on the moral high ground,
Than an irritant aggressor..
//////////////////////////////////
Solid as the Rock? The current situation in Gibraltar and the Falklands.
Thin Pinstriped Line
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2013-01-01T00:00:00Z&updated-max=2014-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=15
being sensible……
.
@49
Aug 06th, 2013 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not true, with Britain's larger Air force and Navy she could deliver a morale crippling blow on Spain's ability to fight at a distance, if Britain could gain naval superiority around the Gibraltar straights then she could bombard any invasion force with ease, and retaking the rock form the sea wouldn't be that hard in the circumstances as Britain has the most capable Amphibious ability in Europe. It all counts on destroying Spain's Air and naval forces, which can be achieved.
Britain would also have an ally in Morocco who would have the chance to take back Ceuta and the other Spanish city (forget the name).
Any way this point is mute for a number of reasons;
1.EU & NATO membership for Spain, as stupid as they, they aren't going to violate said membership criteria and get chucked out for attacking another member.
2. Trade/commerce - An attack by Spain will be seen as a deliberate act of aggression and will be condemned by most of the western world, with France and the like taking economic measures against the country, especially if they kill civilians. Britain can also lose Spain trade by calling in a favour from the Commonwealth, especially the Queens realms, Canada etc who would no doubt cut trade with the country.
3. Money - Spin does not have the money to fund a prolonged war with the UK, one of the few true Great powers in the world. The UK has the money and technological basis to fight such a war and replace lost equipment quickly while Spain does not, a great deal of her equipment is imported.
4. Military capability, the lager Airforce and better equipped navy of Britain which has Tomahawk cruise missiles and various other land strike weapons can eliminate Spain's military in droves weakening they're ability to take and hold Gibraltar.
5. Courage/ commitment, at the end of the day Spain has had 300 years worth of time to take Gibraltar back and they haven't.
With all the silly anti brit rubbish from argies,
Aug 06th, 2013 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the fact is, gibralter is not spannish, and never will be. full stop.
catalonia may well break away , with spain in total melt down, spain is achieving nothing but nothing.
just cutting of her nose to spite her face, to deter intrest away from all the coruption.
Yes it is all moot point Conor, well done.
Aug 06th, 2013 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On your little theories though (all of them completely flawed and ridiculous), Id say the morale crippling blow would be to Britain, seeing their attempt getting shot out of Spain's skies.
Aircraft trying to navigate 250 moving sam sites while simultaneously fighting Spains own considerable airforce from many airfields.
All the while knowing that their land forces wont make a dent at the end of the day.
Briton - I'd be more worried about Caledonia breaking away than Catalonia. Oh look they've even got a referendum underway.
@53
Aug 06th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”(all of them completely flawed and ridiculous),“ Thats your uninformed opinion and obviously you can't refute them as you haven't exactly explained why they are flawed. Proving you know nothing of military matters or history.
”250 moving sam sites“ Shows how little you know, Spain actualy has a very small contingent of SAM batteries and missiles, certainly not enough to shoot down any serious amount of RAF aircraft, any way the Spanish would be forced to deploy their Typhoons and F-18s to protect their fleet of shore from the might of the Royal Navy. Typhoons are also known for their stealth abilities to avoid detection and interception.
The British land forces are also renowned as the best trained in all of Europe if not the world and British military equipment is some of the most advanced and innovative in the world, the British challenger tank for example is famed for its indestructibility. A great deal of Britain's forces are also veterans were as Spain hasn't been involved in a single serious war in 53 years, other conflicts like the Gulf or Libya has seen little or no Spanish involvement and fighting.
Also if Spain did manage to take the rock, they would have to deploy significant forces on the Rock, leaving them vulnerable to attack elsewhere. Also Britain has been in this sort of situation were so called fortresses that were once held were claimed to be impregnable and they have fallen to even the smallest of forces. I think you underestimate the capabilities of our legendary forces. After all Spain would be up against the British Army which once ruled all of India with 10,000 soldiers.
”Briton - I'd be more worried about Caledonia breaking away than Catalonia. Oh look they've even got a referendum underway.” Which has been opposed in virtually every single opinion poll conducted.
Conor -
Aug 07th, 2013 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“you haven't exactly explained why they are flawed”
Conor. You are the one making the extraordinary claim that
“if Britain could gain naval superiority around the Gibraltar straights then she could bombard any invasion force with ease, and retaking the rock form the sea wouldn't be that hard”
Extraordinary claims require evidence. All you've given is your unqualified opinion. A fantasy, cooked up on a whim, in the middle of a frustrated moment.
Vestige : “250 moving sam sites”
Conor : “Shows how little you know, Spain actualy has a very small contingent of SAM batteries and missiles”
Im taking that information from the following: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Army#Weapons
251 portable sam systems are listed.
“Spanish would be forced to deploy their Typhoons and F-18s”
Do you know this to be true.....what happens to you little plan if this isn't ordered.
“The British land forces are also renowned as the best trained in all of Europe if not the world”
This vague statement can be found on any site with a military featured.
That is to say, if you look up Australian army on youtube, you'll find the exact same comments, or German or Brazilian, or Russian etc etc etc.
Also it would make no difference even if true, Britain does not have the means to make a military incursion into Spain.
“Also if Spain did manage to take the rock, they would have to deploy significant forces on the Rock, leaving them vulnerable to attack elsewhere.”
The rock is a few square kilometers, Id imagine it wouldnt require very much presence, it would likely be just one more part of an overall warzone.
If spain sent 5000 there, Spain would still have far greater numbers at all times.
“I think you underestimate the capabilities of our legendary forces”
I think you grossly overestimate your “legendary” forces, and grossly underestimate the proposition of military conflict with Spain.
Regardless of which (likely biased) polls you read polls do not guarantee results.
@55
Aug 07th, 2013 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Extraordinary claims require evidence. All you've given is your unqualified opinion. A fantasy, cooked up on a whim, in the middle of a frustrated moment.”
You obviously didn't know that Britain has the most capable Amphibious landing force in Europe coupled with the Royal Marines, a retaking of Gibraltar would be difficult but not impossible. After all if it was impossible, how did Britain come in to possession of the Rock in the first place?
I don' t know were you got 251 but I scoured the page and couldn't find it, the only SAM units listed are:
Thing about SAM sites is a bit misleading, if you read your own articles regarding these missiles most are short range missiles with speeds that are either less or only slightly faster than a Eurofighter itself, a great deal of those systems are also incredibly outdated in comparison to the likes of the Typhoon, also if there was a large scale air engagement between the two forces the Spanish can't deploy those systems as most are fire and forget with phased radar detection systems, meaning that if they are launched at a large group they will track the nearest aircraft, see the problem with that? theres a chance they will hit Spanish aircraft.
“Do you know this to be true.....what happens to you little plan if this isn't ordered.”
Well what else are they going to use to attack the larger Royal Navy at sea? Foul Language? The Spanish navy can't take the RN on in a large battle, its too powerful, check for yourself.
Oh and British forces are the best trained, look it up, 32 weeks basic for Marines-longest in the world, and thats just RM, the Army outweighs virtually every other Army in training time regime.
“If spain sent 5000 there, Spain would still have far greater numbers at all times.”
Whats to stop the Marines and Army attacking then? After all Britain still has Sea and air dominance.
Just about to run out of room, we can argue all day but as I said this is all moot, no war will occour at all, will it?
*56 You got the rock because the Dutch helped you out if it wasn´t for that help Gibraltar would be Spanish today. Apart from that the Rock was taken in possesion of Prince De Hessse Darmstadt but the British knowing that Spain was down and out decided to kick it in the head!! and here is where The cowardly Brits took possesion of the Rock!! WHEN THE OPPONENT WAS DOWN AND OUT!! and then you made them ( A French king not a spanish king) sign that silly treaty that you all so proudly love!! Well we down under do not like to kick our opponents when they down and out!!
Aug 08th, 2013 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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