MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
France drastically cuts defence; expects the Rafale can save it from further axing
France is to cut more than 30,000 defence posts and reduce or delay orders for jet fighters and other equipment as the socialist government seeks to balance the need for stringent spending cuts with a bid to sustain the country’s role as a big military power. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesMakes sense, there has been no move on French Guiana as yet by the Bolivarian nuisance makers - yet!
Aug 05th, 2013 - 04:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0“But the budget, which accounts for some 11% of state spending,” can't be right, more likely to be around 2.5 % of GDP, no European country spends 11% of GDP on defence!. The Americans only spend 4.4%.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0They could always buy the Mirages Spain has on offer.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Note that “France, Europe’s main military power behind the UK,” So the UK is Europe's main military power. Certain third-rate “countries” might want to take note.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0But then, France still has an aircraft carrier. That spends more time in dock being repaired than it does at sea.
A little comparison between the Rafale and the Typhoon. The Rafale is slower and doesn't have supercruise. The Typhoon has a greater flight ceiling. The Typhoon has a greater rate of climb. Anyone think the French made a mistake? And they are about the same price. Please sell/buy Rafales. We can shoot those down with no problem!
Get real, this site has a definite Anglo bias. Any time this question comes up in the Anglosphere they hmm and haw and then just arbitrarily settle on Britain.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can tell you in the Francosphere, just in the same manner, its the French military thats arbitrarily gets chosen.
Oh and that aircraft carrier had British planes flying from it recently. :)
@2 The article expresses it in terms of % of state spending instead of GDP. It entirely depends on how they define state spending. UK's is about 6-6.5% of central government spending which is under 3% of GDP.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0It looks like the article is counting the % of the central government budget excluding social security. If you do the same for the UK defence budget it probably comes out similar.
@5
Aug 05th, 2013 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0How is that then? I suppose the Typhoon just navalised its self overnight did it?
We don't have any carrier based aircraft until the F-35 B begins to arrive in larger numbers. The harrier was our last carrier based aircraft in service. I think someone is telling porky pies.
6 JuanGabriel. thanks :) i thought mercopress had missed something in translation again.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 04. Got to love the french, sticking to CATOBAR carrier ops. When we lost that capability in 78 with the old, old Ark. Saying that they should built two, helps with docking/refits etc.
+ if you don't like how fast the Rafale fly's, take a look at the top speed of the f-35 :) & the radius of combat operations.
“France still has an aircraft carrier. That spends more time in dock being repaired than it does at sea”
Aug 05th, 2013 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0... I think someone is telling porky pies.
@9 Yep. You!
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9
Aug 05th, 2013 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you don't deny that you were wrong about those so called British planes flying of the Gaul?
Also Conqueror wasn't lying about the De Gaul, a slight exaggeration but it is true that their carrier is terribly built, constantly breaking down and having reactor problems, so she is very ineffective even when deployed at sea.
@2 cornishair
Aug 05th, 2013 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm surprised the Bolivarian axis isn't making a move for Guyana.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela_Crisis_of_1895
The French has elected not to build a new carriers in reference to the UK ,
Aug 05th, 2013 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This means in essence that very soon France will be without a carrier, theirs is getting older and frequently keeps breaking down, and the window of opportunity has now , I fear, closed.
The UK will have Two carriers,
Yet in the great halls of myth rumors and iffy-buts, rumors still persist of a THIRD carrier,
It just wont go away, perhaps plans were laid and readied for a third just in case.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Spain says it might put a military presents near the border
A very silly move by Spain
After all, she wont be able to repair or renew her military once it has gone..lol
.
@13
Aug 05th, 2013 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont think there will be a third carrier, Briton Its highly unlikely, there are just enough escorts in the Navy to protect QE and PoW but not a 3rd. We need more escorts thats the main issue and more personal as well.
I wouldn't worry about Spain, with youth unemployment rising too and above 50% they don't have the money for this non-sense.
ha ha, agreed,
Aug 05th, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yet this extra carrier still crops up from time to time,
but like you say, its a no no,
and yes more escorts,
im hopeing with all the stuff in the papers,these cutbacks will be looked at again,
and camaron will agree to increase things, including eventualy more escorts,
they say 13, but perhaps 22, would be much better,
and more destoyers..
@15
Aug 05th, 2013 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah 10x T45s & 24x Type 26s would be nice, I reckon you could achieve this by simply reducing the nuclear deterrent and scraping our pathetic EU membership.
I`m sure Nigel Farage (UKIP) has said he will increase our defence budget by 40% if elected. Now that would be nice.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Get real, this site has a definite Anglo bias. Any time this question comes up in the Anglosphere they hmm and haw and then just arbitrarily settle on Britain.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can tell you in the Francosphere, just in the same manner, its the French military thats arbitrarily gets chosen. ”
It may be your opinion. But most real military annalists do agree that the UK is Europe's main force. Francosphere? Mate, barely anyone even knows what that means. Try googling it, i know what it means but seriously it doesnt even have a wiki page.
The main reason the UK is chosen is due to it's ability to project force overseas. This is one area that it beats France and any other nation in the world bar the US hands down. Also the UK is much more willing to actually put boots on ground to actually fight a war compared to France.
That and the US also agrees that the UK is Europe's main military power. Cite Anglo all you like, they are still the reigning superpower and do know there stuff.
There are many other reasons and i will also say that France has an excellent Military force, however the UK beats it in many category's.
“But most real military annalists do agree that the UK is Europe's main force”.
Aug 05th, 2013 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Id like to know who these analysts are, also Id like to know how they form 51%, is there a register of military analysts now ?
Googles 'Francosphere' .... oh look .... 1st result . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophone ffs
Third paragraph - again 100% subjective and Anglo bias.
( “it's ability to project force overseas”....in the context of this debate you should think that one out again )
References from these US sources are welcome. Is there an official govt line on this now, or again is it purely subjective and varying depending on who you ask and when. Ill get some French and Quebecois opinions if you like. Then we can both have confirmation bias.
“Also the UK is much more willing to actually put boots on ground to actually fight a war compared to France”
French troops have deployed in more than a dozen African missions during the past two decades.
...Without daddy America.
Now off you go. Merci.
“Third paragraph - again 100% subjective and Anglo bias.”
Aug 06th, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that you think this is subjective and bias shows you know nothing about how a military force works. Power projection has been the defining factor in every great nation in the history of the human race. The British empire, Romans., Greeks and recently the US.
And, yes it is also a fact that the UK does this better than France. The UK deployed 45,000 as an invasion force last decade to an overseas nation. France simply does not have the logistics to do this.
This is due to a simple reason:
France has four replenishment ships.
Three assault ships
One dock landing ship
The UK has eight replenishment ships
Four assault ships
Three dock landing ships
Six sealift ships
This makes it a FACT that the UK's navy has a much better logistics network and is able to project force better than France. Anyone who can not see this is an idiot.
Is one jealous of the ANGLOSE
Aug 06th, 2013 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anglo-Saxon=sounds ok, A thousand years out of date,
But then again was it not Vandals or anglovandals for you guys then,
Or did you evolve into Spanish=then evolved into south American via argentina, along with all the others, now living under different names,
Sounds a bit like us –yet seemingly decades behind lol.
19 Vestige ===
20 - The fact that I think your third paragraph is “subjective and biased”
Aug 06th, 2013 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0is because it is .....not backed by objective facts (and thus subjective),
.... and is written by you, a British apologist/sympathizer*, and so biased.
I suppose that would make it 1)subjective and 2)biased. Feel free to correct me.
“The main reason the UK is chosen is due to it's ability to project force overseas”.
France has an aircraft carrier*. Britain doesn't. FACT
This can come in useful when 'projecting force' overseas.
Im sure logistics is an important part of the overall picture, fortunately
France has the logistic ability to go anywhere Britain can.
You'll have to check for facts yourself, but I'll confidently say France can move just as much freight.
“...45,000 as an invasion force last decade to an overseas nation. France simply does not have the logistics to do this”
- really ... says who? A source would be nice, has this source considered Frances auxiliary ?
That aside. France has a MUCH bigger armed force than Britain. (source; wikipedia pages french armed forces, British armed forces)
So compare away.... once you put the carrier and the bigger armed force, and the lack of detail on the navies into the equation all that can be left is speculation....
...and from what I can see in here, certain British people unsurprisingly agreeing with other British people about who's better France or Britain.
(see above comments)
*See 'Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier'.
** Reference; Searchbar. Zethee for pages of British apologist/sympathizer examples.
21- What do you know about my nationality or lineage. Where am I posting from.
Thats right.
France has the same logistic capability that Britian has,
Aug 06th, 2013 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So who was it that airlifted Frances heavy vehicles into Mali?
I could have sworn they were RAF C17's.
It would seem what you think they can do and what they actuallycan do, are not the same.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Air_Force#Equipment
Aug 06th, 2013 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancaster_House_Treaties_(2010)
reinforcedplastics.com/view/33838/airbus-military-delivers-first-a400m-to-french-air-force/
(bâillement)
“I'll confidently say France can move just as much freight.
Aug 06th, 2013 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With much less and smaller transports.
”France has the logistic ability to go anywhere Britain can. ”
With less and smaller logistic capability.
Going to say you're either a complete idiot or a troll. Either way enjoy.
Just FYI
Aug 06th, 2013 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Royal navy replenishment/landing fleet currently weighs 477 metric tons fully loaded.
French navy replenishment/landing fleet currently weighs 126 metric tons fully loaded.
I am still rooting for them to freight as much as the RN does. *golfclap*
And this difference in one single aspect makes Britain Europe's no.1 military power how exactly.
Aug 07th, 2013 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Heres an aspect - France has an aircraft carrier, Britain doesn't. How are you going to “project force” abroad better than France, with no carrier planes ?
Heres another aspect - France has far far more armor than Britain
How are you going to say Britian is the no.1 force when France has more afv's alone than Britain's entire armor.
France has a bigger military than Britain.
France has a bigger economy than Britain.
France has 1 more aircraft carrier than Britain.
Britain can move more tonnes by ship. (*golfclap*)
(Now add your own so the subjective opinions can flow)
The best part of all this is...... the fact that you even have to debate it for more than 2 paragraphs without any compiled stats to prove the superiority proposed.
Meaning, statements like 'uk is europes no.1 military' are indeed proven to be entirely subjective, not demonstrable or convincing in any way and therefore *as an assertion* ...total and utter BS.
22- What do you know about my nationality or lineage. Where am I posting from.
Aug 07th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thats right
Tut tut
France has an aircraft carrier, Britain doesn't
Fact=its so old it spends more time in dock than outside it, fact
Very soon france will de-mob it, and Britain will have two..fact
You cannot do a comparison because we have things they don’t==they have things wedont.
And does it really matter, we are not enemies.
.
Exactly - no comparison to be made. So folks in here can stop spouting nonsense like uk is the no.1 military of Europe.
Aug 07th, 2013 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And where am I posting from, and what is my lineage/race/identity.
I purposely don't make it known .... to prevent wasting my time with ad-homs from certain.....types.
ha ha,
Aug 07th, 2013 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0to tell the truth nobody tells who they are , where they come from,
we could in fact all be living in the same street..lol.
“the fact that you even have to debate it for more than 2 paragraphs without any compiled stats”
Aug 07th, 2013 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you have....?
Anyway:
http://www.globalfirepower.com/
No, but here you are, if there was any obvious answer it would have been strongly justified early and left no doubt.
Aug 07th, 2013 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Without proof and with numbers so close the making of an assertion is BS.
yeah....globalfirepower. A site that has Ethiopia above North Korea lolol ...I sht you not.
(and Egypt above Japan haha,... maybe their total railway length was bigger)
Yahoo answers would be more reliable.
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