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HMS Richmond leaves for seven months Atlantic Patrol Tasking

Wednesday, August 7th 2013 - 16:27 UTC
Full article 90 comments

Portsmouth-based frigate HMS Richmond has sailed for a routine seven months Atlantic Patrol Tasking which includes the South Atlantic. According to the official release she left Portsmouth on Monday 5 August and will maintain the continuous Royal Navy presence in the Atlantic and provide an ongoing protection and reassurance to British regions within the region. Read full article

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  • LEPRecon

    Oh no! The British are militarising the South Atlantic with one whole ship!

    Arrrgh! Quick get CFK back to the UN to bitch on about it!

    In the meantime, Argentina sinks further into the pits of hell, whilst it's President is busy on a very important shopping trip to NYC.

    Aug 07th, 2013 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    @1

    Well, she's got the chair-she can moan about those Sea Wolf missiles (even though they are ancient-but still very very good.

    Aug 07th, 2013 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Many thanks, as ever, to the officers and crew of HMS Argyll (F231). Hope you won't mind me mentioning that your ship is the oldest serving Type 23 frigate in the Royal Navy. But not shabby. Not shabby at all. Thanks from the British people.
    And to HMS Richmond (F239), we can be sure that you will uphold your long and proud history and traditions. “From God and the King”!
    GOD BLESS THE ROYAL NAVY.

    Aug 07th, 2013 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • slattzzz

    @3 might be the oldest but doesn't mean she's any less capable, the ships as good as the crew which means she's right up there. Seawolf , Harpoon, 4.5, torpedo's and a Merlin more than enough for the rg's

    Aug 07th, 2013 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islander1

    Although smaller than the old 42s they - being more modern - actually pack a bigger and more varied punch. Chile has 2 also.

    Aug 07th, 2013 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Malvinense 1833

    @3, @4 http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=_rCtJSFnVQ0

    Aug 07th, 2013 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conor J

    @6
    You should be;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5JkBsATplI

    Be afraid, be very afraid!!!

    Aug 07th, 2013 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    @6

    What's the guy saying? We the Imperialist Argentines, are going to ethnically cleanse the Falklands like the racists we are?

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    3 Conqueror

    Too right!!! It is such a good line that it is worth repeating

    “GOD BLESS THE ROYAL NAVY”

    Perhaps HMS Richmond can call in on Gib. on her way down or even, maybe HMS Argyll can call in on her way home?? Just to show a friendly face and say “Hi!!”

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 04:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Perhaps HMS Richmond can meet Spains aircraft carrier on the Gibraltar coast. They'll look down from above and say “Hi!!”

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #10
    I am sure that as allies in NATO both vessels would observe the common courtesies of naval vessels meeting on the seas.

    By the way, the Spanish aircraft carrier CANNOT fly. The clue to this is in its designation !!

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 07:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @10

    Enjoy tit face

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?site=&source=hp&ei=-YYDUr78KMm4O8eMgNAI&q=pictures+of+queen+elizabeth+aircraft+carrier&oq=latest+pictures+of+queen+elizabeth+air&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0i22i30.2520.27833.0.29742.45.32.3.10.11.0.568.5217.8j14j7j1j0j1.31.0....0...1c.1.24.mobile-gws-hp..6.39.4432.wo1qQJKxGPM

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conor J

    @10
    Yeah and that aircraft carrier would be up against a type 23 Frigate, she carries 32 Sea Wolf anti air missiles that despite being 20+ years old were deployed with distinction during the Falklands war, this Carrier can only carry about 16 worn out harriers and has no other means to defend itself from surface attack from Richmond's 8 Harpoon Anti ship missiles and her 4.5 Inch main gun. So I think Juan Carlos would keep their distance from a 23 unless escorted.

    Also Vestige at less than 16,000 Tonnes she is microscopic in comparison to Britain's 65,000 Tonne carriers which will be the largest in Europe and 2nd only to the Nimitz class in the world when completed.

    So the Juan Carlos which isn't actually a true carrier would come and say Hi and would then have HMS Queen Elizabeth come up behind her on a loudspeaker saying Rule Britannia!!!

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    and then the Spanish submarines will come from behind and say !BOOM!!

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #14
    Whilst the Spanish submarines come up and say boom, thats all they could manage, our hunter killers will make them go glug glug.
    Our navy knows how to do this in spades !
    Actually, they will not have to do that, the subs. will sink themselves. You've got to laugh !
    Any more expert advice on this subject ?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10073951/2-billion-Spanish-navy-submarine-will-sink-to-bottom-of-sea.html

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    11 - lol did you actually think that what I thought you thunk. I hope not.

    @12 - Yes, tits indeed.
    Here, enjoy - http://www.timeanddate.com/

    Ah I love it. Conors back. You should team up with Conqueror.
    Britains will be carriers ...will be ...will be ... will be.

    Not going to be much good right now are they. Without a time-machine.

    Folks need reminding that British forces cannot intimidate Spain.
    Especially on the South coast where they alone can fly and widdle down missiles on ships from a great height.

    So pull a destroyer alongside on the coast, Spain will fly right over it and park a bigger ship beside it.

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    *15 That is old news!! there is a solution to that problem!!
    The four subs should be in the sea around 2015........

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Being in the sea, does not seem to be their problem here.

    Coming up again, on the other hand, most certainly seems to be the problem!

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    To CFK ,
    Listen and learn
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,
    HMS Richmond leaves for seven months Atlantic Patrol

    and will maintain the continuous Royal Navy presence in the Atlantic and provide an ongoing protection and reassurance to British regions within the region.
    BRITISH ,
    Now go cry to the UN .lol
    .

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    “The shipbuilders based in Cartagena, southern Spain, are now seeking ”technical experts from abroad“ to advise in the redesign of what was billed as the ”most modern conventional submarine”.

    Mmm, obviously a comment by somebody who knew nothing about submarines.

    Perhaps the argie navy can advise how to allow them to sink at the side of the dock!

    @17 aussie twatface

    The solution only costs “7.5 million Euros per extra meter” ha, ha, ha. But what about the raging inflation in costs?

    And these argie twats were taking the piss out of a brand new Royal Navy sub grounding on a moving sandbank during its’ first sea trials.

    You have to admit that the Spaniards are almost as funny as the argies when it comes to military achievements. What next, promotion for the idiots who couldn’t work out how heavy the thing would be when they ‘made’ it? Shades of losers medals for the heroes of the Malvinas. FFS.

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    That got the Marine bit right.

    It's the Sub bit that's causing them problems.

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    20 Like I said the problem is being solved. Those subs will be in the water not to long now....and a new carrier is on the drawing boards...The government has a military budget of 29 billion euros.. to buy more euro fighters and navy ships....

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #22
    Have you not heard the news. Spain is financially bust !
    Is Germany going to bankroll Spain's military ambitions to the tune of 29 Billion Euros? What kind of dream world do you live in !
    From the http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/is-end-of-aircraft-carrer-nigh-rapid.html
    I would trust this analysis more than your wishful thinking
    Quote:-
    Although the Spanish have built a large LPH, with carrier facilities (the Juan Carlos) as a second platform relatively recently, she is not an aircraft carrier in the conventional sense, and with the Spanish economic crisis deepening, it seems likely that PDA will not be directly replaced by another ‘proper’ aircraft carrier.

    Similarly, with the emphasis on Juan Carlos as an assault ship, it seems likely that the small fleet of Spanish harriers (less than 15 airframes) will be increasingly vulnerable to defence cuts in an economy which is desperately struggling. The chances of seeing a credible Spanish fixed wing aviation capability beyond the next few years seem slim, and at a time when they are struggling to afford sustaining a relatively small buy of Eurofighters, it seems hard to envisage introduction of the JSF too.

    A type 45 could knock out the whole of Spain's naval air wing without a problem.
    Please research your subject before posting any more drivel.

    As a matter of interest, who says Spain and the UK are going to engage in a shooting war......absolute nonsense !!!!!

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussie sunshine

    It is interesting to see that Australia has better diplomatic relations than The Uk. Spain building and selling two LPHs to the Australian Royal navy and last week they signed for Spain to build five Air Warfare Destroyers (AWD)..
    www.navantia.es

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    she is not an aircraft carrier in the conventional sense.....whatever, it still carriers and launches aircraft.

    “A type 45 could knock out the whole of Spain's naval air wing without a problem.
    Please research your subject before posting any more drivel”.

    Really ? ....where is your proof of this ? Obviously you're researched it if you are telling others they need to research.
    What makes you think this?

    (interesting - that bit about Spain selling all those ships to Australia)

    Aug 08th, 2013 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @7 Conor J,
    I'd love to drive one of those Challenger Tanks!
    What a buzz that would be!
    Better than a parachute jump & that was great.

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Here,s another interesting fact about Australia and Spanish ships.
    What was that about a 29B Euro defence budget?

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/the-aussie-armada/...

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanGabriel

    @24 the deal for using the design of the F100s was years ago and its only for 3 ships that are being built in Australia primarily by....BAE Systems lol.

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #25
    OK. Lets play out a scenario. In event of hostilities, no RN ship is going to “park” close to the Spanish coast.
    Let's say a type 45 is sailing 300 km from the Spanish coast.
    It's radars have a 400 km range.
    A coordinated attack is launched by the Naval Air Arm of 15 EAV-8B Harriers -the entire fleet presuming they are all airworthy.. These are subsonic aircraft - some could come in at high level and others at low level but would all be picked up before they came anyway near the Type 45.
    The EAV-8B's would have very few options to attack.
    Low level with gravity bombs - no chance.
    High level attack with laser guided bombs, again no chance. They would be dealt with at long range by the Aster missiles of which 48 are carried by the Destroyer - 3 for each attacking aircraft.
    An attack with AGM56 Maverick with a max. range of 30 km. Requires that the pilot can see his target before release. It is not a fire and forget missile. Aircraft would be shot down before release.
    Aster missile system :-
    Aster 15 range 1.7 km -30 km speed mach 4.7 and can manoeuvre at 60g.
    Aster 30 range 3-120 km ---as above.

    All this information can be found in various sources such as Flight Global, Spanish naval website etc.

    Does this answer your question ?

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    The link would not open for some reaso, here is what I found particularly interesting, given Aussies assertion that Spain has a budget of 29B.

    Australian taxpayers will fork out millions more to subsidise a Spanish combat supply ship Cantabria that will spend next year with the Royal Australian Navy, providing support for training exercises.

    Spanish newspapers are reporting that Australia will cover the ship's fuel, maintenance, and transportation costs, as well as living expenses for the 180 Spanish crew.

    Spain will keep paying the sailors' salaries. Major Spanish newspaper El Pa aacs said the operation, which would run from February to November next year, was the Spanish navy testing “an unusual formula to maintain the operation of their vessels and crews, while reducing costs”.

    The report said the arrangement, which was signed off in Madrid this week, was good for the Spanish navy because it would keep the ship fully active.

    Otherwise, it might not operate for more than 40 days next year. The report also said, if the ship impressed the Australian navy it might replace two old logistic support vessels with similar Spanish ships from shipbuilder Navantia.

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    29 - Clyde.

    Does this answer your question ?

    - Ah Im sure Ive got a few. Heres one.... whats this ship doing parked 300 Km off the coast and whats it meant to be doing. Why should anyone care.

    A tank crashes through the Gibraltar fence. The wonderful t45 cant stop it.

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jwolf

    I'm curious if the Royal Navy is considering adding a second patrol ship to be permanently on station once all these oil rigs start to pop up around the islands. One patrol ship just doesn't seem like enough if you have multiple scattered platforms to monitor....

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    32 jwolf

    If it was a T45, and it would be a T45 if TMBOA was playing silly buggers as usual then only ONE would be needed to destroy ALL of SA combat aircraft without resupply.

    Good, eh?

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jwolf

    If memory serves me right there is usually a Type 45 Destroyer, an RAF supply ship, and a smaller patrol ship permanently on station. I think the patrol ship is the HMS Clyde?

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #31

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    24 aussie sunshine
    It is interesting to see that Australia has better diplomatic relations than The Uk. Spain building and selling two LPHs to the Australian Royal navy
    ……………………….
    That’s very interesting.
    Spain is also building amongst others the A300
    Two will be delivered to the uk early next year.
    ////////////////////////////////////////////
    war war war war, sounds nice, many trolls would love it,
    but sadly they still play video games,

    you argies have more chance of a conflict with the UK, than spain does,

    and yours is a no no..,..lol

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Read that Australia was also considering purchasing 6 of Spains new Submarines. but that was before it was revealed there were problems with them coming back up again, rather important in a sub I would suggest. Not sure if they are still considering them, however if I was an Australian submariner, I would not be overly pleased at the prospect.

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    I think the UK will be hoping that Australia will have an interest in the next generation of british subs..

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    #35

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JetsreamBR

    Wow, how cute, another ship to be blocked in our ports, terrific!

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    ?

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JetsreamBR

    @41

    It was a double sensed sarcastic joke

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    ok

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JetsreamBR

    ...Guess you're not curious to know it's meaning, right?

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    not unless CFK intends tocapture the entire royal navy,

    right ?

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JetsreamBR

    maybe yes, maybe no...best answer is, who knows?

    Aug 09th, 2013 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #31
    A belated reply due to computer problem. It did not wish to engage in this rather childish discussion but I have overruled it.
    Another lesson for you...ships either berth or anchor. When they move, it is called “sailing”! If you can understand English, read my post again at #29......“ type 45 is sailing 300 km from the Spanish coast”..... NOT PARKED .
    The ship would be transiting to its area of patrol or operation .....a normal practice of all navies.

    A tank crashes through the Gibraltar fence. The wonderful t45 cant stop it.
    I agree with this statement. We would use a Javelin anti-tank missile from high on the rock. Game over.

    The RN could launch a Tomahawk cruise missile into La Linea, what would stop it ?

    Don't you think that this discussion is getting rather stupid ?
    None of these hypothetical points are ever going to happen.

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @47 Clyde15,
    lt seems that Vestige is a bit thick.
    Either that or he/she/its some type of over-educated academic who has no grasp on the real world.

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    48 lsolde

    Vestige has never had a real job, that's clear.

    It also seems that daddy must support him as he is incapable of doing so himself: given his flawed character who would bother, certainly no major company is going to risk him screwing the business up.

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    Vestige is though, qualified to be Argentina's defence chief-credit where it's due.

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Clyde-
    “A tank crashes through the Gibraltar fence. The wonderful t45 cant stop it.
    I agree with this statement. We would use a Javelin anti-tank missile from high on the rock. Game over”

    I'll try once more.
    People of mercopress.
    Gibraltar cannot be defended from Spanish military invasion if Spain so desires.
    Gibraltar can never be retaken if Spain invades it.
    Spain cannot be invaded or militarily coerced by Britain.
    Militarily this is a rare occasion where you have a perfect lose by all and any means.

    Don't talk .... em, nonsense.. when you talk along the lines of like 'we'll park ...or to be technical and pedantic ...“anchor” our military phallus on their coast to show who's boss'.
    GB is not boss on this occasion, Spain is. Just accept it.

    I'd imagine any firing of munitions down from the rock (into a British citizen occupied area) would be met with.... the firing of munitions back up unsurprisingly..along with lots of infantry and paratroops and planes and the whole etc etc.

    Should they not make it up by some wonder, or simply not bother, they'll simply anchor...sorry, park in the town and wait for them to come down.
    Or just ship the civilians out, level the buildings and go home and have some nice lunch.

    “Don't you think that this discussion is getting rather stupid ?
    None of these hypothetical points are ever going to happen”

    - Yes, yes I do.

    “The RN could launch a Tomahawk cruise missile into La Linea, what would stop it ?” (big assumption btw, again, delusions of grandeur)

    Well Clyde, you should think that one out. There would likely be reprisals in Gibraltar to put it lightly.

    So please, anchor your big bad phallus ship right on the coast, not only will it be long and hard and full of sea-men.
    It will also be frustrated, raging and impotent.

    (no c0ck jokes please)

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    51 Vestige

    I think you ought to go home to daddy and ask him for some more of his money to go and see a psychiatrist there are plenty of them in The Dark Country.

    Alternatively try a 9mm round into your mouth, pointing upwards into the roof of your mouth. It will end all of this frustration you have with the UK, USA< and all the other civilised countries of the world.

    It will make your dads day as well I would imagine: less of the whining and crying.

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #51
    YOU are changing the subject. You talked of “widdling down missiles from a great height” I replied to this in a reasonable manner,
    You then change it to crashing a tank through the fence.
    I realistically told you what would happen.
    Have you been to Gibraltar ? Have you seen the field of fire from the Rock facing La Linea. There are NO CIVILIAN houses until you cross the runway. A tank could be knocked out without a problem.
    Did you actually read what I said ? I said sailing, YOU said parked.
    You hop around the subject like a jumping bean without giving a careful thought on what you say.
    Unlike you, I have never used sexual innuendo - says something about you.
    My allusion, if you understood English, was just to show you how stupid your remarks were. We could rack this up to the point of absurdity,to where you have brought it, by nuking the whole of Spain - excluding Catalonia. What could Spain do to prevent this?
    You don't believe that a RN sub. could launch a Tomahawk missile ?
    royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2011/November/14/111114-Astute-Tomahawk
    You are the deluded one here !
    Why would we anchor a T45 DESTROYER next to the coast ?
    We have already destroyed your naval air wing in my scenario..

    I agree, Gibraltar could not be defended against a mass attack.
    However, Argentina thought that the UK would not do anything when they invaded. So, your Spain invades, destroys civilian property and kills civilians. That would look good on the world scene.
    Maybe we would invade Ceuta and Mellila and return them to Morocco. I am sure that this would go down well with Arab states.

    Again, read what I actually said. It is possible to launch a cruise missile into La Linea, Algeciras , San Roque, Castelljar de la Frontera, etc. I never said it WOULD happen or even be likely in a thousand years. Is it likely that a Spanish attack will be made on Gibraltar ?
    I don't think so but you seem to be the expert on this subject.
    Viva Franco !

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @53 Clyde15

    Actually the Spanish have tried before to invade the Rock, and failed miserably.

    Should they ever be stupid enough to try it again, they would be in for a world of pain.

    The UN and the EU would place sanctions on them: in their current financial situation they'd be unable to pay the armed forces within a day.

    I doubt the Spanish armed forces would be that willing to fight if they weren't getting paid, at the very least their morale would be in their boots.

    Also, what Vestige fails to understand, that the UK would no doubt notice any unusual amount of troops being moved into the area, and would immediately warn Spain off, and send reinforcements to the Rock.

    Those reinforcements would initially either be 16 Air Assault Bde or 3 Cdo Bde.

    These troops would only need to hold off any attempted attack for 24 hours, because by them the RN would be malleting Spanish military positions, preventing any reinforcements to Spain, whilst at the same time more British troops would be arriving with their equipment (probably from Cyprus as well as the UK). Who would then push the Spanish troops back into Spain.

    This hypothetical situation would see Spain come off worse on every level: militarily, financially and politically. And for what? Nothing, nothing at all. Even if they push the British troops out of Gibraltar the UN would never allow them to keep it against the wishes of the population.

    That is why it will never happen.

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Sorry to not keep to specifics in this very vague hypothetical situation.

    “by nuking the whole of Spain - excluding Catalonia”

    - this would cause a massacre of the 30,000 civilians in Gibraltar, thus losing Gibraltar.

    (also very strong chance of internal “terrorist” style conventional, bio, chem attacks on home cities)

    Im sure subs and destroyers can achieve all kinds of things, however, one thing they couldn't do is prevent Spain walking right into Gibraltar.

    Or ever reverse the situation.

    Basically - don't try to intimidate Spain with ships, it smacks of helplessness and will only lead to a parking of a bigger phallic display on the border.

    An un-winnable international display of power where GB will get laughed at by the world. Basically it would be the equivalent of a witty and snappy comeback by Spain.

    Britain emm....presents ... a ship to show whos boss.
    Spain rolls up a large tranche of ground forces to say 'oh really'.
    People the world over giggle and point.

    Better to remain quiet and dignified.

    Like me.

    (oh leprecon you so hilarious)

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jwolf

    Every thread on this site ends up the same way. Vestige gets on, riles people up, and evryone gets worked up. But in the end, no matter how much crap gets slung around, Vestige (and a few others of his ilk) can rest their heads on their pillows, close their eyes, and fall asleep knowing that another day has passed and the Union Jack still flies proudly over Gibralter, the Falklands, South Georgia, etc. So let the boy twist and turn and squeal with all his hypotheticals. His words and stories and dreams mean nothing. The real world goes on in all the British Overseas Territories. And he is powerless to stop that. Wow, he must be a miserable little man knowing this.......

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    “It will also be frustrated, raging and impotent.”

    Hm, now who does that remind me of?

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Hey now, I just point these things out when people make ridiculous statements.
    Thinking that Britain can intimidate Spain militarily is a delusion of grandeur.
    I rest my head knowing the probable destiny of those places. My lifetime or not.

    Aug 10th, 2013 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    this would cause a massacre of the 30,000 civilians in Gibraltar, thus losing Gibraltar.

    How if there are no Spaniards left ?

    Basically - don't try to intimidate Spain with ships.

    Who is intimidating Spain with ships ?

    will only lead to a parking of a bigger phallic display on the border.
    Your phallic preoccupation again
    Interesting concept, the Spanish army with their “dicks” hanging out.
    That would certainly put the fear of God into all and sundry.

    GB will get laughed at by the world.
    Typical Argie phrase :- the whole world agrees with us --actually no

    Better to remain quiet.
    Until you can say something sensible, that is a very good idea.

    I don't think that the UK would intimidate Spain. They would only point out possible consequences of their action and let them decide if it is worth it.

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    How if there are no Spaniards left ?

    lol, you're going to kill every individual of 50,000,000?
    This weapon is going to kill off san roque, los cortijillos and LaLinea and Algeciras but leave Gibraltar untouched ?
    And all military bases known and unknown, and all individual units throughout Spain by covering the entirety of the Spanish land ?

    “Who is intimidating Spain with ships ?” - No-one, because its not possible.
    Some however are proposing that. However it wont work, it would only backfire.

    Well yes - I'd personally have the fear of god if I saw the Spanish army doing the wiggle man, theres got to be a percentage...

    Re; the pointing and laughing thing - thats what would happen and I'd say the same for any military in this situation, its not personal preference (although I have to admit Id enjoy it).

    I really don't think Spain would change in its choices based on possible consequences from GB. Especially not militarily in this situation.

    the wiggle man - www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyx6JDQCslE
    (Spanish army version unavailable at this time)

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #60
    So, they will all rush down to Gibraltar will they ?
    A good strategic idea. So that would leave the UK free to land a force unopposed anywhere else on the mainland. By the way, we would have left the Basques and Galicia out of the equation.
    I am sure the Basques would welcome their own independent country, as promised by Franco, but never delivered.
    Even You must see how absurd your argument has become.
    Spain is not going to invade Gibraltar and the the UK is going to do nothing militarily to Spain.
    Most of Spain's youth seem to be leaving the country in search of better times. The UK seem to be getting more than their fair share.
    End of discussion. I will even give you the last word on the subject without a reply. Fair enough ?

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Id imagine some would.
    Theres literally millions of fit for service, and Spain has its own arms industry.

    “we would have left the Basques and Galicia out of the equation”
    (and the non-basque Spanish living there)
    ..but killed their friends and families in other cities.

    “Even You must see how absurd your argument has become”
    ......Even You must see how absurd your argument has become.
    I saw the absurdity long ago.
    The whole basis of this was absurd.

    “Spain is not going to invade Gibraltar and the the UK is going to do nothing militarily to Spain”
    - exactly so people can stop thinking GB can intimidate Spain by parking or sailing or even anchoring a ship on or near the coast/wherever.

    Spain wouldn't care, and if Spain did care it could just put on its own show of force. A bigger one, right on the border.
    One which would invoke discussions and speculation that could only end in the conclusion that Britain would only lose in a battle for Gibraltar.

    Most generous.

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • alan

    Vestige
    You think Angela would let Spain put on a massive show of force?

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Alan.
    I think Angela has as much say in Britain as Spain for something like that.

    www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10234162/British-people-will-be-branded-EU-citizens-from-cradle-to-grave-ministers-warn.html

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • alan

    64 Vestige
    So the Germans who have loaned billions to the Spanish, trying to save the Euro now want them to get in an Arms race with the Germans biggest export market - the UK is Germany's biggest export market. I don't think the Germans are really bothered about Gibraltar or the Falklands. Spain doesn't even control its own money supply, so next time Spain may find the pocket money decreasing.

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    And all that stops Spanish tanks driving to the border in its own country how ?

    Aug 11th, 2013 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • alan

    Spanish tanks can drive wherever they want as long as its not in Gibraltar. Spain might win a battle but UK would win the war. As I said before there is no chance of that happening. Anyway Morrocco is going to start taking an interest before long pointing out that they want Ceuta/Mellila back.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 03:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jasevx

    How did Australia get dragged into this? They support Britain over the falklands and will obviously try to stay neutral over Gib.
    France is supplying Russia with Landing Ships, doesn't mean they are leaving NATO!
    Spains Military is in dire straits though, half its new build Typhoons and Atlas's will have to be sold as soon as delivered to balance the books.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 06:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • screenname

    Anyone else get the feeling that some of these malvinistas are touching themselves while thinking about the Spanish Navy?

    It's almost as if Argentinians were not a separate, distinct 'people'...

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 06:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    “Spain might win a battle but UK would win the war”.

    Not possible. The numbers needed aren't available+can't be landed in Spain.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    Vestige

    That same type of thinking was used by Argentina in 1982, and then the British turned up and humiliated your troops, your government and your country.

    The British Armed Forces out class Spains. We are used to fighting with small numbers against a larger force.

    Added to this is the fact that the UK has some of the most advanced weaponry and equipment in the world, and an Army that is battle experienced.

    Compare this to Spain...which has old equipment and weaponry, and a military that is very inexperienced.

    In this hypothetical situation, Spain would most certainly come off worse, and because they were the aggressor, they could lose their NATO status AND be thrown out of the EU...which means no more money.

    So the reality IS that Spain can achieve NOTHING by invading Gibraltar, even if it were initially successful, as they would soon lose everything including their standing in the international community.

    Added to the fact that fighting wars is a very expensive business, and Spain hasn't got any money.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Spain is not Argentina.
    Malvinas conflict was in 1982.
    You don't know my nationality.
    “British Armed Forces out class Spains” - Untrue. Prove this.
    “UK has some of the most advanced weaponry” - As does Spain.
    Correct hypothetical situation is response to incorrect hypothetical claims and delusions of grandeur.
    “Spain hasn't got any money” - Incorrect. Spain has a 1.5 trillion economy.
    G.Britain cannot land enough forces to win a war against Spain.
    G.Britain cannot win an air-war over Spain.
    Spain has literally millions fit for service and arms manufacturing.
    Nuclear is not an option, 30,000 British citizens are involved.

    In a highly unlikely scenario if Spain chooses to take Gibraltar there is nothing Britain can do to stop it. So send a t45 and park it off the coast.

    It will only look silly.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 72 Last Vestige of a brain

    You have left the letter “t” in the first word of your final sentence, it makes better sense without it.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    To get this thread back to sanity, the BBC interviewed a Spanish Minister about the visit of RN ships to Gibraltar and Spain.
    This was on radio 4 at about 1715 BST today.
    He said, “ Spain has excellent relations with the RN and their vessels will be made most welcome. We are allies in NATO and work together successfully”

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • alan

    Vestige
    Tanks going into Gibraltar. Doesn't look like ideal tank territory to me. Does look rather easy to defend though.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    #74- ”To get this thread back to sanity.

    Me - Yes, finally.
    (guessing that must be the ship that was scheduled months ago)

    #75- “Tanks going into Gibraltar. Doesn't look like ideal tank territory to me. Does look rather easy to defend though.”

    Me - D'OH! Its indefensible in the context.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    Vestigio:

    I have a question, if Spain had wanted to take Gibraltar so much, they've had 300 years to take it, why didn't they????????

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • alan

    Vestige
    A bit like Spanish democracy.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Simon:

    I really don't know. Possibly politics and military considerations were very different up to now. Maybe it wasn't worth lives.

    What I do know is that certain folks coming out with ...stuff... along the lines of 'we'll send a big ship and that'll shut em up' are suffering the grandest of delusions of grandeur and haven't thought things out.

    Im merely kindly trying to rouse them from their dream state in a gentle and benevolent manner. Like a little birdy in the morning cheeping reality through their window and into their gi-joe duvet set.
    cheep cheep ....get to the chopper ...cheep cheep.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    79 Not a Vestige of intelligence

    That's where I have gone wrong!

    I don't have a GI-Joe duvet set!

    Ha, ha, ha.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @72 Vestige

    Yes Spain is not Argentina, it's armed forces are better than Argentina's. Jealous?

    You admitted to being Argentine on a previous thread months ago, you know the one where you were slating the Indigenous people of Argentina for daring to demand that the War of the Desert should not be celebrated on the 50 peso note, and by statue's to Roca.

    Yes the Falklands War was in 1982, and Argentina had better weapons, and a closer logistic line, PLUS actually holding the Islands, AND they still LOST!

    Spanish weaponry is not as advanced as UK weaponry, and IF you actually knew anything about weaponry you would know I speak the truth in this.

    Spain REALLY hasn't got any money. If it did it wouldn't need to be bailed out by the EU would it? It certainly doesn't have the money for a prolonged engagement, or a short one for that matter. All those 'advanced' weapon systems Spain has got are very expensive.

    Actually the UK CAN land enough troops to push the Spanish out of Gibraltar, you seem to think the goal would be to capture the whole of Spain, and quite frankly, who'd want Spain?

    The British troops are BATTLED experience. Spain ran away the last time the 'nasty' terrorists blew up something. Doesn't inspire confidence in the Spanish governments willingness to take casualties.

    You are very naive when it comes to battle tactics. It really isn't a case of pointing the army in a direction and saying 'shoot there'.

    The British could destroy Spain's navy, it's airforce and it's land bases. It could take out any radar installation on the mainland, and gain complete air superiority.

    Next the British Army and Royal Marines would take the Rock back.

    However, by then, Spain's morale would've collapsed because:

    1. The UK would've bombed them to hell.
    2. They would've been sanctioned by the UN and EU.
    3. They would be expelled from NATO.

    Spain hasn't got the military might or political will for any prolonged conflict.

    You're deluded if you believe otherwise.

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    LOL - “admitted to being Argentine” .... Provide link.

    I'll try again - Malivinas 82 is not comparable to the hypothetical Spain 2013. error 404. Does not translate.

    Re; Spanish weaponry, with few exceptions at the high expense (subs, fighters, frigates) end its just as good. Also Spain has an aircraft carrier, GB does not.

    Re; Spain has no money, bailout as proof.
    - GB 1976 Bailout. No sign of mud-huts. Military not stood down. Mumsy didn't have to sell her hat.

    Re;Prolonged engagement - it wouldn't be prolonged, allow me to restate why.....Britain would have approx 1 troop on the ground for 100 Spanish troops. And about the same ratio for armor.
    Also; Fit for service in the millions. Full civil support.

    “The British troops are BATTLED experience”
    - some are. This can be an advantage. As can fighting on your home territory.

    “ naive when it comes to battle tactics”
    - you don't take an individual peninsula and consider it game over. Spain wouldn't sit there at the border and sulk.

    “The British could destroy Spain's navy...etc etc”. A full army on the ground, pointless even if achievable.

    “ It really isn't a case of pointing the army in a direction and saying 'shoot there'
    - Or pointing the navy and saying land troops there.

    ”Spain's morale would've collapsed“ - I see, really? They've given up, that was quick. They can't hack a blitz like ol' Blighty.

    1. ”The UK would've bombed them to hell“ . Delusion of grandeur again.
    2. Oh no a retter - flom Hans Brix.
    3. Oh no I've been expelled too.

    ”Spain hasn't got the military might or political will for any prolonged conflict.”

    - Spain does indeed have the military might. A simple Google of Spain's forces will prove this.
    I think if you attack a country on its home soil political will tends to become quite strong. Taking Gibraltar would not be a prolonged conflict.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion_of_grandeur

    Aug 12th, 2013 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Simon68

    The whole talk of an armed conflict between Britain and Spain is totally ridiculous, both nations belong to NATO for a start and so are allies!!!!!!!

    The Gibraltar situation hasn't changed in 300 years and will not change now, see Spain's Defence Minister's speech about the RN ships arrival in Gibraltar being agreed months ago!!!!!!!

    The whole “Gibraltar Thing” was started by that idiot Rajoy to take the Spanish people's mind off the corruption in the PP (shades of CFK and our economy!!!)

    Aug 13th, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • inthegutter

    Groan... in the extremely unlikely event of a Spanish invasion of Gibraltar I, surprisingly, agree with Vestige. It is unlikely that our forces could retake Gibraltar in the face of a determined (i.e. suicidal) Spanish resistance.

    However, I suspect that we probably could (without resorting to nuclear weaponry) take a decent chunk out of any air defences leaving their ground forces and infrastructure vulnerable.

    Of course, this would pale in comparison to the economic disaster that would occur as Spain would, unless the EU/NATO/UN were in on the invasion, be completely cut off from international assistance and materiel (fuel being perhaps the most important).

    Aug 13th, 2013 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #82
    Also Spain has an aircraft carrier, GB does not.

    And HMS Illustrious is what ? A floating football pitch ? The UK could get enough Harriers back from the US to complement the ship.
    You may remember the Harrier is a British design and engined by R.R. We still have many pilots who are qualified to fly and fight in it.
    We could get enough Harriers back from the US to complement the ship with as least as many as the Spanish Navy, now currently 15.

    I will only comment on the relative strengths of each navy
    SPANISH
    1 Aircraft carrier with 15 aircraft.
    6 Air defence frigates
    5 General purpose frigates
    3 Small diesel electric submarines

    Royal Navy
    1 Aircraft carrier which would be required to be re-equipped with Harriers.
    I Assault ship - Which could carry Harriers with a reduced potential for operations
    6 Air defence destroyers
    13 General purpose frigates
    6 Nuclear hunter killer submarines

    Other vessels ignored as they are not first line fighting ships.

    You could say that there was “parity” between the carriers.
    The air defence frigates would have to be in the RN's favour - a leap ahead of the Spanish ships.
    As for the GP Frigates, the RN has well over twice the number.
    In subs., it should be no contest provided they meet in the Atlantic.
    The Spanish subs. could not match the RN in quality and tactics.

    So, anyone looking at the figures and equipment would have to come down on the side of the RN being the better equipped for battle than the Spanish navy.
    I am not saying for a minute that the Spanish would not engage in this hypothetical “naval battle” and that they would not fight ferociously but I don't see how they could win.

    Aug 13th, 2013 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    And that saves Gibraltar how?
    Listen to #84, its not that bad.

    And provide that link where I 'admit' that Im an R.G.

    Aug 13th, 2013 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #83
    All I did was comment on the relative strengths of both navies in reply to your comment at #83 below:-
    ”Re; Spanish weaponry, with few exceptions at the high expense (subs, fighters, frigates) end its just as good. Also Spain has an aircraft carrier, GB does not.”
    I have listed the strengths of both navies and countered your statement about the aircraft carrier. Do you agree with the figures or not ?
    I was not engaging in any discussion about Gibraltar, hypothetical or otherwise just the relative merits and capabilities of both fleets.

    As to your request for a link admitting you are an R.G. you should direct this to LEPRecon as I did not say it.

    Aug 14th, 2013 - 05:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Fair enough. Redirected to leprecon.

    Aug 14th, 2013 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @88 Not a Vestige of a brain.

    I think you are an argie, the son of a wealthy family because you clearly have never worked in your life.

    If you are not an argie or a SA but a westerner then you are a turncoat, a renegade and a disgrace to your family.

    No link needed: this is the polite version.

    Aug 14th, 2013 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Could you re-phrase that, I didn't quite get the gist.

    Aug 14th, 2013 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @90 Not a Vestige of a brain.

    Of course: ha, ha, ha. Got it now?

    Aug 14th, 2013 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    “ ha, ha, ha” it is. Very well.

    Aug 14th, 2013 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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