MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Assange says Americans have a debt of gratitude with leaker Snowden
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange says Americans owe US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden a debt of gratitude because his leaks prompted President Barack Obama to promise an overhaul of secret surveillance. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAssange who? Isn't he running for a Senate seat in my state?
Aug 12th, 2013 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway. Snowden could have had the same affect without selling secrets to the Chinese and Russians. Any good he may do is massively outweighed by the bad.
I hope both Snowden and Assange make it to Ecuador and the government puts them up in a nice apartment TOGETHER. That would be all shades of hell and purgatory having to share a place with Assange. A US prison would be like a holiday resorts in comparison.
Blah, Blah, Blah, European Arrest Warrant ! Blah, Blah, Blah, Sexual assault investigation !
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yup, I think that the 'thinking citizen' in the USA will reflect that this reining-in of the millions of covert agents acting 'in their name' will have been a good thing.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sometimes it needs someone to disregard the rules placed on society if those rules are being abused by the establishment itself.
A government should have NO secretes from its citizens. The excuse that the government needs to perfrom secrete operations around the world with secrete agents is a bunch of bullshit. If governments weren't bombing other countries, killing other people's citizens, imprisoning people without trial, meddling into the affairs of other countries, etc., then there wouldn't be a need for all of this secrete crap.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Paraguay does not allow for anything to be labeled “confidential”. It greatly limits the power of the government and gives it oversight by the people.
There is nothing “good” about betraying your country. In the case of the United States, that involves betraying more than 315 million people. Not to mention the people of those countries to which the United States is allied. Such a betrayal is probably unprecedented. Let's just figure. You tell all those affected about the surveillance. How do you catch those who mean harm? There is something that all those in the Western world need to remember. There are “people” who mean us harm. The murderers of the islamic cult can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks Over 10,000 people killed by islamics. I don't have a problem with any Western government trying to keep me safe. I don't want to die “naturally”, never mind “unnaturally”. There are ways to question government actions. But you can't question government actions if you're dead. I trust that, when Snowden is eventually captured, he will receive appropriate punishment. Smashing his kneecaps, either with sledgehammers or gunfire, is a good start. Then the same for his elbows. Impalement for about a week. Removal of limbs by axe. And, finally, after about 5 weeks, decapitation. And then drop the remains in a sea or ocean. Several hundred miles from any coastline.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4 Don't be ridiculous. Perhaps your attitude explains why Paraguay got shafted by mercosur. Here's a tip. Want a tip? Want to know whether another country is planning to attack? Then don't tell it you are investigating. If Paraguay doesn't have people dedicated to Intelligence, it is brainless. And those that are brainless will die. Who in their right mind would accept a situation where a country didn't know what an enemy was planning?
5 Conq
Aug 13th, 2013 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“There is nothing “good” about betraying your country”
That depends on what your country does / is doing.
If a UK government were to take you further down the road of EU integration, would you not celebrate any action that sabotaged that?
The government is not “your country”. Obama has been forced to put new limits on domestic surveillance because he knows it is unpopular and possibly illegal. And that is thanks to Snowden.
I am sure that true believers in tribal Yemen won't be any safer now that Obama can't go after political adversaries' tax liabilities.
Does anybody actually believe that Obama has done anything, really?
Aug 13th, 2013 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm still waiting for how a Malvanista would respond to a Argentine defector to Paraguay giving an interview spilling the beans about a “rainbow plan” for the taking of the Falkands by force (against their constitution but who are we kidding...) or something similarly naughty like how the current party illegally spies on political opponents in the name of cramping down on terrorism or state security, and then to ingratiate himself to his new best friends and hosts, blabs also about details how Argentina has been working to destabilize Paraguay. Transparency is always good when the other side's sideboob is exposed.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My views on Snowden are a little complex (and *were* far more sympathetic than towards Manning), and I am more than very suspicious of metadata harvesting, but once he started to blab to the Chinese about the NSA doing NSA-y stuff like hacking the people who were hacking us to suck up the his hosts in Hong Kong/PRC, I lost a heluvalota sympathy for him. I suspect it would be no different from the perspective of any other country -- if people were honest, that is.
#5 - You fail to realize that the USA is a target of these “extremists” because the USA military is bombing several countries around the world at this very moment...yet we are not even at war anymore. I don't understand why we didn't just go into Afghanistan, kick some ass, and get out. Leave the place to its own luck, not our problem anymore. But no, we have to hang around, do some nation building and all this other crap, while at the same time bomb the crap out of the place, piss a lot of people off for over a decade. Of course people hate us, so would I.
Aug 13th, 2013 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Power will ALWAYS corrupt, even the best souls. It has proven true with the abuse by the IRS and EPA targeting conservative groups. It shows with the NSA using its surveillance power on Americans via the DEA. Ohh it wasn't meant for all of that but someone saw that they could take advantage of the system. Today you may be on the “good” side but in the future you may be the target. If and when that is the case, there will be no judicial recourse. Take the case of the two women shot in California during the Dorner manhunt. This is a clear sign of police having unlimited power without any consequence.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/07/16888732-women-shot-by-cops-were-just-delivering-papers?lite
I agree we have to combat crimes like terrorism, but we don't have to give up our civil liberties. You mention 10,000 dead by islamic terrorists and thus that gives justification to limit the bill of rights?? What about the 30,000+ deaths each year from car accidents; should we ban cars? That would easily save more lives, but we would also lose our freedom.
Think about it...
“#5 - You fail to realize that the USA is a target of these “extremists” because the USA military is bombing several countries around the world at this very moment.”
Aug 14th, 2013 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0View this sight Bamf, and explain to me the events before we declared war on terrorist? Don't forget your ally Bin Laden declared a jihad on the USA and non muslins in 1998. We have no intention on converting to islam or capitulating to a concept. Real Americans and the majority accept sacrifice, however most of us here do not see a liberty that was given up. Being the American that you are, did you dad ever talk about his mail being censored when he served in the military during WWII?
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html
#10 - First of all claiming Bin Laden is my ally or claims similar makes your arguments childish. Terrorists exist for a reason and I only say that we should work on the source of the problem and not a symptom. Not all terrorist acts are caused by US intervention abroad, but I think you will agree that most are.
Aug 14th, 2013 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Expect more home grown terrorism caused from the consistant attack on civil liberties. Many will claim the solution is more surveylance yet that again will only be a symptom.
As for your question, my father did not serve in ww2 and neither vietnam. His views on government was similar to most americans; do as you are told and dont question the motives of the government. Today he has a diffweent opinion and disagrees with what was done. Things like concentration camps for the japanese americans isnt in line with our beliefs. Guatamano isnt in line with my views. And the recent revelations of nsa spying isnt constitutional nor morally correct. Government is our servant and not the other way around.
BAMF
Aug 14th, 2013 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with most of your sentiments - indeed, I have been quite vociferous on these topics, to the point of being frustratingly repetitive to posters on this site.
Nobody is claiming the answers are simple
and everybody can see that the arguments and 'positions' are very different depending on where you are standing and your degree of involvement.
The peoples of the North West Frontier have seen many armies try to take their lands over the last 2 millennia; they might be forgiven for wanting retribution for the foreign destruction of their towns and villages. They have become a nation that does not take this laying down, and use their religion to validate their struggle.
That they have extended their reach beyond their territories into the whole world is no more and no less than that which has happened to them.
But now view matters from the perspective of a US president seeking retribution for Saudi/international terrorists responsible for 9/11 ....
The great behemoths of power have always used little weak nations to keep their armies 'sharp', and the minnows have always fought back - like the freedom fighters in Jesus's homeland fighting the Romans, etc.
The older I get the more schizophrenic my attitudes have become, because the issues are NOT black and white and are NOT uni-dimensional.
But the first time one of MY family dies - whether it is done by 'security forces' or 'terrorists' - my perspective will become VERY black and white.
I definitely do not subscribe to the belief that a nation the size of the USA is 'just one big family' ... hurt one of us, you hurt us all ... retribution follows like armageddon.
And such action must not be taken 'in my name' without reference to the tenets and mores of a cultured civilization.
No, nations have gone beyond the pale, and 'crossed the line'.
@12 GeoffWard2
Aug 14th, 2013 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whilst I agree in principal with almost everything you have said, I would like to ask one question: what as an individual can you DO about it?
For my part I see the risks much closer to home, particularly during the holiday season when the scum of Argentina follow the holidaymakers down the coast. I live in a very nice “bungalow” type home with all the obvious wealth markers.
The Policia have advised me that in their experience I need not worry being so exposed because they send a motor patrol to our area at least twice a day (one being in the hours of darkness) so I have not bothered with a firearm of any type.
Out of season is no problem whatsoever. The local teenagers are great and they know that I help some of their friends (male and female) understand commerce and spreadsheet planning.
My only annoyance are the street sellers of fish and small bread baps who insist on coming up the drive towards the house but I think I have got the message over to them now.
However I am mindful that you live in Brazil!
I noticed you selectively answered questions about WWII and then interjected Vietnam.....talk about a dichotomy in words. Retrospectively not many Americans agree with the internment camps, and the USA paid a small payment in kind. Of course you fell to mention the Japanese attacking the USA, was that for effect of the interment camps and the use of Vietnam?
Aug 14th, 2013 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you mean to tell me that as over 16,000,000 served the USA fighting the Nazi's and Japanese, daddy stayed home? We called him Jody, the coward banging the GI's wife's and girls.
If you insist on believing the the majority of terrorism exists in the world today because of the USA, please.....quantify that to validate your argument because I do not agree that is that case.
While I hardle think my country is always right or anywhere near perfect, but not at the level you think it is. We real American really hate immigrants like you the slide under the rules to get into my country and the first thing you do is bitch about our ways. Go the fuck home. We don't need more hispanics here, the 200,000,000 illegals don't even speak English so I at least give you credit for that.
BTW........if you never defended American liberties, don't bitch about perceived liberties being denied.
#14 - Again you make personal attacks that have no relevance to the topic. My father didn't fight in either war because he was not of age. You see you throw these random comments out there without any base whatsover.
Aug 14th, 2013 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for Japan, and the Axis powers, there is no doubt they deserved the good ass beating that we gave them, but that is irrelevant again. I never stated that we shouldn't fight wars, just don't hang around for decades trying to do nation building. Afghanistan's Taliban government supported terrorism. Okay go in, catch or kill the heads of the government, kill a few enemies while we are at it, then get out. Leave the country to its own luck. It will sure make another government think twice about supporting terrorism.
As for your nationalistic attitude, the USA is melting pot of nearly every nation's citizens. Unless you are a Native American, then you or your ancestors were also immigrants. Heck, my ancestors were probably living in the USA before yours. Criticizing the government is about as American as one can get. You on the other hand accept all of the crap that they feed you. You are unable to differentiate between the bullshit that the government tells you and the reality that is occurring; you are losing your freedoms. Snowden's comments were spot on; “...prevent a turnkey tyranny.”.
No.....the comments were for effect. The point of WWII, I obviously need to explain, was that liberties, such as certain privacies are balanced against the public safety. No soldier during wartime could expect privacy in letters he wrote or received.
Aug 14th, 2013 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And thank you for the civics lesson, without an foreigner like you, I would not have know the USA is a melting from the days when we wanted immigrants. I have stated here hundreds of times that the USA is an implanted population as is south american.....I tell the trolls that all the time they call the Falklanders implanted people. Perhaps your ancestors were here longer than mine as mine arrived after a losing a battle to the Bolsheviks.
You seem to know so much about me I wish for you to further elaborate on what I believe MY government feeds me?
BTW, the right to privacy on the internet or airwaves is about as much right to privacy when walking down the street and not thinking your picture cannot be printed in a newspaper. I have no problem critiquing my government....irks me a little when foreigners or free loading illegal immigrants rant about it.
Snowden could have been more effective then breaking the law. HE accomplished nothing, absolutely nothing. Mining metadata will not stop. Deal with it. But in the meantime....please......quantify your statement that the USA is responsible for the majority of terrorism in the world....please. Paraguay may have made you a cynic because they,.....what killed and tortured their citizens like most of SA? All you SA's are a little fucked in the head.
ChrisR (#13)
Aug 15th, 2013 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“… what as an individual can you DO about it?”
We protect our family, within the law whenever possible.
The Bahia shore-side house has all the modern protections, and the basic ones as well – road security, caseiro, dogs, walls and razor-wire.
Because we also suffered holiday arrival of HUGE numbers of ‘outsiders’ – especially at New Year, and because Salvador pulled down all the shanty beach bars closer to the city – I also have ‘personal protection’ to deter intruders.
Local intrusions to date have involved poisoning the dogs, armed threatening of caseiro to 'look the other way', and making off with the more expensive house contents. No abh or deaths to date.
Our subsequent extra street protection, following meetings with other permanent and seasonal occupants, involved movement sensor spots/floods in the unlit areas.
An individual CAN protest.
I have protested in the ‘broom protest’ against corruption and in support of the Ficha Limpa, though I was not on the streets in the recent city protests as I was out of the country.
I advise others about how to ‘win against the system’ and, of course,
I use my skills as a writer.
I use a pseudonym for personal protection – though I have no evidence that, in Bahia, it is necessary.
In the ‘cowboy states’ further north I would definitely need to be anonymous as murder of dissenting voices is well known.
17 GeoffWard2
Aug 15th, 2013 - 07:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0That IS a very serious situation and I am surprised that you have not moved elsewhere, my wife would be completely un-nerved living under those sorts of implied and real threats.
I had no doubt that Uruguay was for us and now I can see I have definitely made the correct decision.
#16 - Poppy
Aug 15th, 2013 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Osama bin Laden was trained by the US military. Is that not proof enough that the United States IS helping to create terrorism? It may not be the intention of the USA to create terrorists, but the actions that it commits has such a side effect.
All I ask of you, and everyone, is to be critical of their government. Realize that when the government says they are here to protect you, it is a bunch of bullshit; every person has their own motives, and the use of fear is a great means to achieve such motives. Remember the saying, “I'm with the government and I'm here to help.” should sound off major alarms.
As for privacy, I don't consider that a right. My issue is the violation of the 4th amendment, “...no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” I also have issues with the violation of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd (yes even the 3rd), 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th amendments. I thought those rights were sacred, but they are not, and that is a real shame.
As a foreigner, I would not expect you the actually read ALL the words in my constitutions Bill of Rights because it is written in English. Are you ascribing the collection of metadata as a unwarranted search? 4th
Aug 15th, 2013 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 01st ammendment, you actually think you can yell at the POTUS “I am going to kill you”...?
2nd....sorry, correction, I am not sorry.......I believe in restrictions on guns
3rd......your reference has me puzzled and chuckling. Elablorate that one for me?
5th If you read, we are in a time a war and a period of public danger. See if you read the Bills, there are qualifiers, actual Americans accept it.
6th refer to the 5th. Just as Nazi's were not subject to my constituion, neither are jihadist terrorist.
7th-WTF?? ARE YOU JUST TOSSING OUT THE NUMBERS ???
8TH-That is settled law and not everyone gets bail.....period. Besides.....perhaps cutting there heads of when captured is a bit more fitting.....tit for tat?
10th- Once again....refer to the 7th WTF?
If you were an American you would understand out law is common law.....not codified like sharia law. Really......read over the 7th and 10th. If you don;t like it.....go protest in DC outside of congress....there is at least a dozen on any given day.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/08/12/assange-says-americans-have-a-debt-of-gratitude-with-leaker-snowden#comment268735: If you read the US Constitution you will note that its provisions, including the Bill of Rights, apply to all US citizens equally. There is no other qualification that must be met.
Aug 19th, 2013 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you were to come to the US you would discover that the US has no official language. Some states do have English as an official language but this is usually in conjunction with another language.
You would also learn that the US is the fourth largest (by population) Spanish speaking country in America and the fifth largest in the world.
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