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Cristina Fernandez sends bill to reopen third debt swap and calls on God to illuminate US Supreme Court
Argentina will send a bill to Congress this week to reopen a debt restructuring for those creditors who haven’t accepted previous swaps after the nation’s 2001 default, said President Cristina Fernandez Monday evening on national television. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesCristina asks for God's help. Think how many have been asking for his help for years to get rid of her.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Before invoking divine judicial intervention, CDK might want to check with the Pope first whether God is definitely on Argentina's side.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a hypocrite! How can she invoke the intervention of the Almighty when allegedly she has hidden ill gotten gains in offshore havens e.g. the Seychelles?
Aug 27th, 2013 - 02:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Surely even her most devout followers must see through this!
Argentina sinks lower and lower into the mire on a daily basis!
Ask Winnie the Pooh, a pair of socks, a bridge on the river kwai, the success rate will be the same. Seriously, calling on imagined entities to intervene is absolutely mental. He won't get rid of cancer, but he'll help a sovereign nation with it's debt?! Great priorities from God there.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ We beg God to illuminate the US Supreme Court ”
Aug 27th, 2013 - 03:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chrissie, you may have intermittant power or no power in your courts but I wouldn't mind betting that the US Supreme Courts have. LOL :-)
Serial defaulters, more like CFK!
Aug 27th, 2013 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0A desperate plea from a desperate nation.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 04:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do we need to say anymore?
I dont why you lot are so negative about this - Argentine are going to get let off.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 05:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I misread this at first, I thought she was going to pay the bill.!
Aug 27th, 2013 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is exactly the same offer that has been turned down by the funds. They offered this when asked to negotiate and the court said that it wasn't good enough and, as it had already been offered and rejected, wasn't an effort to negotiate in good faith.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0The sensible thing for the U.S. Supreme Court to do is to decline to review the case. It will have all the briefs and evidence and, if it agrees with the findings and judgements of the other courts, it can simply say so. And there goes CFK's plea for divine intervention. It must be so galling for her that she can't simply tell the court what to do. She would in argieland. Anyway, she's sent a bill to Congress. “Look, we're willing to pay.” Response. “Yeah, right. So now you can pay the actual amounts that you are legally obliged to pay.”
Aug 27th, 2013 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0IS ARGENTINA REALLY A RECALCITRANT DEBTOR?.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0As it is expectable, some people will agree on this kind of mischievous concept, however reality is much different, although some hypocrites prefer ignoring it.
None nation which doesn't have any intention of paying it's debts, makes three debts restructurings, in fact, argentina's posture has always been the same, even after griessas' rulling, when our government went to the court of appeal's from new york, it manifested it's disposed to pay the vultures, but in the same conditions of those who accepted the two debts restructurings, so, it's hypocritical and stupid to consider argentina as a recalcitrant debtor, beyond this distorted intepretation, we all know what kind of people the vultures are. If they didn't accept argentina's offer, it's not because of the country.
Anyway, it's expectable that they don't accept it again, and it's also expectable that the court doesn't take the case, so, the government has a new challenge in our fight against the vultures.
CFK is finally begging. It is unseemly for any president to have to beg and she would not be in this position is she had acted with some decorum. She thumbed her nose at the law and stated she did not care what the law said, she would do whatever she liked. This probably played well to her immature followers but she is living in a world of adults. Now she is reduced to begging and from all accounts she was very subdued in her statement.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“”As a country we cannot afford to have a sword of Damocles above our heads,....”. No, because she knows she can't pay. What a pity she does not have one single minister capable of negotiating out of this mess. She has positioned the country under the sword of Damocles. No one else did it.
Axel-it's easy-if your country does not borrow money it won't have these problems.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a stupid cow. She just told the NYCOURTS that they're going to TRY to circumvent the court order by TRYING to go through an RG bank.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Delusional arrogant nutbag.
Plus it won't work.
@15 Yup, pretty stupid. Each time they have told the courts exactly what they are going to do to try and negate any ruiling.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure, let God speak to the court for Argentina.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0As an Expert Witness, he can be cross-examined.
12 axel arg (#)
Aug 27th, 2013 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Aug 27th, 2013 - 07:55 am
Axel: The answer to your titular question is YES!!!!!!!!!!
We owe something in the region of U$S200 to 300 billion, and in the last ten years we have paid about U$S174 billion. Those ten years were the very best in our history as far as comercial balance and fiscal balance were concerned. As of now it will be all downhill, so yes we are definitely a “recalcitrant debtor”!!!!!!!!!
Argentina owes nothing.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0People bet on a bigger return on investment, they lost.
If I invested in GM and lost all my money, do I have the right now to sue?
Argentina will never pay, because it does not have to pay to begin with.
Let's simplify things a lot: ARGENTINA DEFAULTED.
Default means in the simplest terms “you ain't seeing 100% of your return”.
Argentina already made it clear you will see only 5% of your return.
And that's the end of it.
@TTT
Aug 27th, 2013 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Will Argentina ever need to borrow again? If no, then fill your boots. If yes, then wind your neck in.
A default is not a cheap and easy way to get out of a hole - it is a disaster that throws you on the mercy of other nations. Therefore you don't do it unless you are willing to accept the terms imposed upon you. Similarly you don't borrow under New York rules unless you are willing to abide by New York rules and you don't start wars unless you are willing to accept the consequences of losing them.
As for your theoretical question about investing in a stock, then yes if the prospectus is fraudulent then you can sue. Investing and lending may be risky activities but they are bound by certain rules. These rules apply to Argentina as to everyone else.
@19 I know you won't understand this. That's because you're a thick little git. But try. Widen your perceptions. Argieland borrowed billions on its promise to repay investors with a profit for the privilege of using their money. Instead of negotiating with investors, argieland IMPOSED what it called a “settlement”. Unable to match the financial and legal resources of the argie “government”, the majority of investors settled for the best they thought they could get. But some held out. The situation at this point is quite clear. The argie government is attempting deliberate fraud. But there is a hope. The bond sale was subject to New York law. This was argieland's choice. Because if it had chosen to make the sale subject to argie “law”, no-one would have bought. And here is the second part of the fraud. Argieland denies that New York law applies and attempts to demand that its sovereign status overrules everything. Fortunately, no-one accepts the criminal argie response. But then there's more. Despite every piece of evidence about argieland's criminality and intended fraud, argieland insists that its “sovereignty” overrules everything. Except that argieland gave up its “sovereignty” for these bonds to be sold. Argieland, as usual, has now lied extensively. The third part of the fraud.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0The TiT says “only 5%”. I say that argieland must not only be punished but be made to pay. Every argie overseas asset must be seized. Wait for argie protests that such action is illegal, then point out that ignoring a court judgement is also illegal. And don't only pay the “hold-outs”. Pay everyone. And if argieland falls apart? So what? It's falling apart anyway. If people suffer, so what? They've benefited from stolen money. The world must learn that crime cannot be allowed to pay. It is just fortunate that one of the planet's most criminal states will have to be sanctioned. Argieland to appear before ICC!
Well said, Redrow
Aug 27th, 2013 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0“If I invested in GM and lost all my money, do I have the right now to sue? ”
Aug 27th, 2013 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0tobi are you that ignorant to not know that awswer and more so that you did not identify if you investment was an equity position or debentures. Equity......know you could not you are part owner. As a debt holder......yes you could sue unless they went into chapter 7. You ignorant, stupid or intentionally avoiding information.
Everything you say is the total opposite of every action the KFC regime does. You are the perfect barometer.
I don't think that appealing to God in a US court is a smart strategy. “Christian Nation” and “Ceremonial Deism” aside, US Case Law is about as behind God as the world is behind Argentina. I also believe he has some fraud charges in civil court pending on him over his claims to be an Intelligent Designer.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The 2013 summit of the G20 countries takes place in a few days time in Moscow.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How on earth can la Kretina show her face in the light of these recent developments?
TWIMC
Aug 27th, 2013 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A “Streak of Genius” this…: ”Offer to all holders of Restructured Argentinean Bonds to swap them into Securities governed by Argentine law to prevent payment disruptions from any irrelevant US court ruling………..........................
(Of course it is “a Streak of Genius”……....... The original idea was given to us a couple of years ago by a Yankee friend....: The recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences (2001), the John Bates Clark Medal (1979), former senior vice president and chief economist of the World Bank, Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, ForMemRS, FBA and Columbia University professor Mr. Joseph Stiglitz……… )
We should have done this sooner.....
Anyhow, no sweat....
Lots of time.....
Mañana.... ;-)
Yeah, hoping for illumination on BOTH sides would be enlightened. Making both sides a winner is the first principle of negotiation.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But appealing to a catholic dashboard diety for futbol or nationalism is like..... step up from Middle Eastern rhetoric. Maybe two steps up from Central African.
(20) Redrow
Aug 27th, 2013 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say to TTT…:
”As for your theoretical question about investing in a stock, then yes if the prospectus is fraudulent then you can sue. Investing and lending may be risky activities but they are bound by certain rules. These rules apply to Argentina as to everyone else.”
I say…:
So you mean that, when the South Atlantic Oil Bubble explodes, all the Anglo investors who lost all their monies will be able to sue the FIG(leaf) for every ill godten penny they got out of that fraudulent prospectus?
PS:
Rockflopper Exploitation down (again) today…. -4.45% to 112.75 pennies.
“We beg God to illuminate the US Supreme Court,” Cristina Fernandez said, because
Aug 27th, 2013 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The popes no good,
After all she wants to speak to the engine driver, not the oily rag. [no offence] lol
.
“ Instead of recalcitrant debtors, we are serial STALLERS and DEADBEATS ,”
Aug 27th, 2013 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC….
Aug 27th, 2013 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some Anglos on this thread seem very exasperated by a quite normal Spanish manner of speaking invoking God…..
Very same Anglos from England who’s National Anthem is…: ”God save the Queen”
Very same Anglos from America, who’s official motto is…: ”In God we Trust”
Brainwash anybody?
Basically every business site is calling Argentina deadbeats and scofflaws over this proposed skirting of NY court filings.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This will be as popular as CEDINs are.
All coming to fruition as I have predicted.
Glad oil is up since cfk is paying spot prices to keep BA lights on
Tee hee
@Think
Aug 27th, 2013 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 028 - No, the latter is not equivalent to the former.
31 - No, the latter is not equivalent to the former.
The day Cameron breaks into God Save the Queen while making a political speech about us being in legal peril in a foreign court, is the day I will say, ”Well done Think, this time you really have correctly compared one equivalent thing to another similar thing.
33 Redrow
Aug 27th, 2013 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I bet he worked all day to come up with that little nugget and you have broken his dream!
Oh well, never mind. :o0
“Begging god” clever tactic, pass the blame off as a challenge that only heavenly beings could accomplish and that it was never in her mere mortal grasp, the usual crock of shit, but it will serve its purpose for the religious backwards.
Aug 27th, 2013 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0she'll be calling on god quite a lot in the future don't wear him/her out, meanwhile her desperation is highly illuminating :)
It gives CKF someone else to blame “It's God's fault - he did not do what I told him”
Aug 28th, 2013 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also will the replacement Argentinian bonds be “INDEC linked”.
(33) Redrow
Aug 28th, 2013 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly; don’t play silly……
Most English politicians “Do God” if that gives them votes…:
“David Cameron ”does God” at No 10
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/apr/04/david-cameron-god-easter”
And don’t get me started about American politicians………..
Secondly, when the South Atlantic Oil Bubble finally bursts, English lawyers will have a easy task proving thenear incestuous relationship between the Oil Hoaxers and the FIG(leaf).....
Just take a look at the Mineral Resources Director's CV.......
@37
Aug 28th, 2013 - 05:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, again, the latter is not equivalent to the former.
Saying something respectful at Easter, Eid and Hankkukah is not the same thing as asking God to side with us in an international dispute (implying that the other side do not have God or have a lesser God).
Even if CDK's words are only a turn of phrase, they are nevertheless curious and help feed the notion of divine entitlement that prevents people rightly questioning their leaders. If God be for us who can be against us?
As for “Oil Hoaxers” - that's strong stuff. I have no dogs in this fight and so will reserve judgment on this until a later date. My working assumption however is that oil company executives and investors are much harder to fool than the Argentine proletariat, so we will see. Anyway God is on my side so I'm bound to be right...
I owe different people a huge sum of money, I have promised to pay 93 percent of my debt at 1/3 of the value and refuse to pay the remaining 7 percent.
Aug 28th, 2013 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Am I really a recalcitrant debtor?
Is Argentina really a recalcitrant debtor?
Only a clinical idiot would ask that question, as the answer quite obviously is YES!
@12 Unfortunately, you are a mental child. Or should that just be; you are mental. If you take your blinkers off, you could see a couple of truths. First, “the whole world” doesn't support argieland over the Falkland Islands. Saying “We support you” costs nothing. It may be politically or commercially expedient. Take a look around. How many countries are rushing to argieland's aid in its time of financial crisis? Sorry, how many? Let's take another issue. The world is sitting and waiting for the resolution of the court case about those bonds. There are some countries/organisations that you hoped would be on argieland's “side”. But they aren't, are they? Not the important ones. Meanwhile the whole world is watching fraudulent argieland twisting and turning, trying to avoid justice.
Aug 28th, 2013 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@19 It doesn't help you to post something ridiculous.
@31 Not really, Thick. See, those quotes you picked on are historic. Whilst your slag is begging for current divine intervention. She won't get it. As I understand, there are some “commandments” that say you mustn't do what she does every day.
@37 Ever thought of this? IF “the South Atlantic Oil Bubble finally bursts”, it will splatter all over “your” country that you don't live in. Then we can set light to it and watch it burn. Always look for the silver lining, eh?
(38) Redrow
Aug 28th, 2013 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0By Jove...!
Dear Lord...!
For heaven's sake...!
Holy Mary, Mother of God...!
You are soooooooooooooooooo right…!
Always “Curious” when Foreigners ”Do God“...
Not so when Anglos do…. That’s just ”Natural”, ain’t it...?
Meanwhile, God is sorrowfully composing his/her 13th commandment: thou shall not lend money to Argentina.
Aug 28th, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(42) Casper
Aug 28th, 2013 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Last time I chequed the Decalogue, there were just 10 commandments.....
Have I missed something?
@43 Think
Aug 28th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ouch.
;-)
Aug 28th, 2013 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My self-esteem is declining by the post.
Aug 28th, 2013 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are much ore than 10 commandments, even a southie can find that on wikipedia or utube.
Aug 28th, 2013 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47
Aug 28th, 2013 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hah! A Boston reference. Even I knew that!
[ commandments, ]
Aug 28th, 2013 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Probably loads to start with,
But due to space, cutbacks and austerity measures’ [lol]
They were cut back to ten,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[ why does every country call for god, when they get into trouble]
Because the AA is always busy.. lol.
.
you even YOU did. However.....southie.....you cannot get much more south than a South American, hence southie. You must have markie mark on your mind to think southie.......what made you go to Boston with the word southie?
Aug 28th, 2013 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@50
Aug 29th, 2013 - 12:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some of my favourite writers are from Boston. George V. Higgins, Robert B. Parker, Denis Lehane. The 'southie ' reference pops up regularly in their books. And Chuck Hogan too. It also pops up in plenty of movies as well. Wasn't thinking of Marky Mark. Although come to think of it didn't Wahlberg play a southie in The Fighter?
Yes Mickey Eklund, great movie,,,,,any kid that boxed knew Lowell and Holyoke were the places to go to fight for the prize as a youth fighter....the Golden Gloves.
Aug 29th, 2013 - 05:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0But I also refer to South Americans as Southies.
Acknowledged.
Aug 29th, 2013 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Griesa is having a hearing today at 1pm to determine if Arg has violated the ruling and will be held in contempt
Aug 29th, 2013 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0They're like a bunch of monkeys running Argentina.
It should be an interesting afternoon.
SIMON68.
Aug 30th, 2013 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry, you are not alone in your fight. I don't want to be a hypocrite, that's why, after reading your comment 18, i conffirmed what i have always thought about you, in fact i can only tell you that there are many other sepoys like you, who will always prefer defending the interests of foreign countries, instead of deffending the interests of our own country. You don't need to be a fanatic kirchnerist in order to realise that the if arg. were a recalcitrant debtor, it would never make any debt re estructuring, accepted by the 92% of holders, it goes beyond ideological postures.
I hope you never answer any of my comments again, because i feel really ashamed of having somebody like you as a compatriot, anybody can agree or not on my ideas, but unless i don't betray our country, i think i have been perfectly clear, haven't i?.
Axle Arrgh
Aug 30th, 2013 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I hope you never answer any of my comments again, because i feel really ashamed of having somebody like you as a compatriot, anybody can agree or not on my ideas, but unless i don't betray our country, i think i have been perfectly clear, haven't i?.”
You DO BETRAY YOUR COUNTRY by supporting the actions of the current government, despite obvious corruption.
You are a self-described “Kirchnerist”.
Simon68 is an Argentinian patriot.
Simon questions and criticises the Kirchner government, in order to look after the best interests of Argentina.
You don't like that.
Axel,
Are you a patriot or a Kirchnerist?
They are NOT the same thing.
If you say that you are both, you have shown that you put the Kirchnerists first.
If one defends the illegal actions of their country, then surely they to are guilty,
Aug 30th, 2013 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland’s are not argentine , never have been , never was , and never will be,
So to get them, she has to effectively steal them,
So does axel then agree that stealing is ok,
Yet to oppose this is perhaps treason.
Perhaps one should look at ones ideals in life,
And re-think their loyalties .??
just a tintalising thought..
57Briton
Aug 30th, 2013 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axle Aargh and the other La Campora need to realise that the Kirchner 'administation' is NOT Argentina. It is not treason to question or oppose them. That is part of Democracrstic process, dissenting views are represented and must be considered.
To do so is not “betrayal” or “treason”.
The 'government' is also obligated to follow laws, the Constitution, and abide by contracts and agreements.
Interesting contradiction that Kirchneristas insist that the military junta government of 1982 was not representative of Argentina, and it was ok to oppose Menem, an elected leader, but it is betrayal to question or oppose the Peronists.
Simon68 is the conscientious voter and citizen, Axle is Kirchnerist who condones autocratic rule and ultimately, theft.
axel.....you never responded to my point about your ideals of intellectual honesty and the contradictions of you statement of not believing in objectivity and neutrality. Do you always run when your contradictions are put on display?
Aug 30th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for your attack of Simon, if your truly believed in your countries national interests, you would be concerned about Argentina's growing isolation. But it does not matter any more, Kirchner and Kirchnerite's regime and reign is coming to an end. With any hope and luck, she will hang from her toes at the gates of la casa rosada, or at least impeach...then sentence her to prison.
Cap, I'm not so sure CFK is going to go quietly. The list of illegal acts is a mile long and once they investigate the drug trade, money laundering and outright theft of public funds she and her kids will be in jail or worse and she knows this.
Aug 30th, 2013 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, Your moral compass is pointing the wrong direction. How dare you attack Simon you are pathetic and I hope you go down the tubes with the Ks. Maybe the next gov't will leave you a black hand f like they did in El Salvador for the teachers when the commies were trying to take over.
You're probably right Yankee. Last week there was an article in the Herald where a opposition politician was quoted as saying she did not think that CFK will complete her term and she may be impeached. Wishful thinking maybe, but it sounds great knowing the subject was broached.
Aug 31st, 2013 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure they have enough to impeach her but they won't until there is someone powerful enough to stand behind it. Remember this is a place where you, your family and fortune are at stake for even speaking out against the gov't much less taking action.
Aug 31st, 2013 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Accidents happen
My guess is if she loses the Oct by a wide margin there will be movement to get her out with a warning shot of Maxi or Flori having a really bad accident or her plane malfunctioning.
It will be interesting to watch.
Agreed, I think after those primaries, October will be the real showdown. The troops are all clusterfucking in Corrientes and touting how Kirchner's have saved the nation with their debt reduction of national debt. They actually brag about defaulting as if it were a method of debt reduction! WTF uses default as a debt reduction plan, then tells the nation....“we reduced the national debt”?
Aug 31st, 2013 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0What's with Kicilloff? He looks like a “Shark” from the West Side Story? As 2nd in charge, I still get the impression he walks around with Lorenzino's balls in his pocket.
All of CFK cadre look like half-wits and criminals. They have a definite greasy/sleazy look about them.
Aug 31st, 2013 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I sure i mentioned it before, there are a lot of good looking, well dressed, well mannered Rgs how they find the utter trash that represents them is beyond me. No education, can't dress and bad manners and dirty looking. The current Ambassador to the USA doesn't even wash her hair and looks like a heroin addict.
These next few months will put Argentina on it's path for the next generation.
It doesn't look like a road I want to go down.
58 Troy Tempest
Aug 31st, 2013 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Totally agree, axel plays the neutral, yet always seems to land face down on top of CFK…lol
.
65Briton
Aug 31st, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, we won't see Axle Aargh in this thread again.
He has scuttled off, for now, only to reappear later with exactly the same rhetoric.
I think we should copy these posts to counter his future cut& paste attacks.
:-)
ha ha,,true.
Aug 31st, 2013 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TROY TOMPEST. BRITON. CAPTAIN POPPY.
Aug 31st, 2013 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is evident that some of you haven't understood my posture yet, so, i'll explain it AGAIN, and i hope you understand it this time.
If c. f. k., or any of her minister, or any officialist or opponent deputy or senator commmitted corruption cases, they must be judged and sentenced, what i deffend of c. f. k's administration are many of her ideas, because according to my ideologies most them were excellent for workers, and for gay people like me.
Although justice determines that those people committed corruption cases, it won't never invalid all what kirchnerism made for workers. Most what they have done on behalf of the middle class must cotinue in the future, beyond who wins elections, the problem is that in argentina there is not a serious continuation of good policies among the different government, i was born and grown up here, so, i know perfectly what i am talking about, i don't have the too partial knowledge that you have about our problems.
On the other hand, the fact that i am a kirchnerist activist, is not an obstacle to criticise the falencies and flagrant contraditions of c. f. k's government, this is what i call intellectual honesty. In fact, i have always criticised the fact that c. f. k's government hasn't shown yet any politic will in order to discuss the right to legal abortion at the congress, the denounces of corruption cases, and the lack of policies for rail ways.
Being detractor of kirchnerism, doesn't implicate to deffend the interests of foreign countries, like some sepoys here do, just becase they hate c. f. k. I have great friends who are detractors of kirchnerism, but they are serious people, because they would never deffend the interests of foreign nations, especially vultures, in detriment of our country.
On the other hand, i am not affraid of debating, that's why i would never dissapear from this website.
68 Axle Aarrgh
Aug 31st, 2013 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ In fact, i have always criticised the fact that c. f. k's government hasn't shown yet any politic will in order to discuss the right to legal abortion at the congress, the denounces of corruption cases, and the lack of policies for rail ways.”
Well la-dee-dah, ain't that great.
You miss the key point:
At the very core of her corruption is her 'helping the poor' by giving them handouts. To do that, she must tax and steal from the Middle class - their pensions, their retirement savings, their assets, even their companies.
The Middle Class employers and business owners fail, creating unemployment and POVERTY.
CFK, who created the situation and hence the unemployment, blames the Midfle Class and Foreign Investors who are forced to pull out, but with her handouts to the poor & unemployed, endures their loyalty.
This is called Populism.
At the same time CFK targets the Middle Class who speak out against her with oppressive tax laws or rules about their obligations to employ.
But you already know this - you have a nice sinecure or you are an under-employed and dis-illusioned, idle La Campora cultist.
Gosh Axel you continue to amaze me with your stupidity. The Ks were poor BEFORE they got into gov't now they are the richest family in the country.
Aug 31st, 2013 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you don't see this as a problem you are beyond help and need to check into a mental institution.
In all fairness to elected politicians worldwide, this is a classic illustration of the arguments against multiple terms in higher office, and benefits of a single-term limit.
Aug 31st, 2013 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A single-term limit allows the vacating of that office in fairness to the next person (President, Prime Minister, Minister, etc.), so that person can assume office, and then steal as much as possible within the legal 4 or 6 year term.
The current President of Argentina has jus been in office too long and forgotten that fact. Things aren't going so well for her of late. In desperation, she now calls on God to illuminate the US Supreme Court around to her viewpoint.
In fact, in 3 days, she will be illuminated US District Court of New York, Hon. Judge Thomas Griesa.
Yankee you are forgetting that old mentally of some Argentine's, that corruption is an acceptable part of politics as long as they (the people) are benefiting themselves. Not all but a good portion. Seems to be a pervasive mentality throughout the region They laugh at us in the West with politicians in jail but they fail to understand just that, they are in jail. Aside from regime leaders of the junta's, how many politicians are in jail or even tried?
Sep 01st, 2013 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its not the citizens that will care its the opposition that will take over when she is weak. They will want to put a stake through the K regime so it can never come back again.
Sep 01st, 2013 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0They may even want the USA to take her over the narco state charges.
It would be easier for them to have her and her minions rot in a USA jail than in Argentina.
Look what they have done to Menem he has been in litigation for 20+ yrs! I think most of their former Prez have been indicted but justice is deliberately slow and corrupt, they want to prolong it for as long as possible so there is a hope that the regime will change and they can get the case dropped.
Just wait and watch
TROY TOMPEST.
Sep 01st, 2013 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's understandable that you consider c. f. k's actions like populism, in fact, we won't never agree on this issue because this is evident that we have deep ideological differences. Anyway, beyond these differences, there is something that we all must take into account. I don't know how it works in the u. k., but in a country like argentina, if there is not a strong statal intervention, social asimetries would be much higher, i know it sounds obvious, but there are still a number of people who don't understand it, or don't want to recognize it.
If we want to have a developed country, it's absolutly necesary a strong and serious statal intervention, which develops ambitious industrial programmes, and give economic and financial support to bussines men.
Argentine economic story is deplorable, i think you would never imagen the terrible economic disasters that we suffered last century. It's very easy to make analysis, and tell us what to do, if you have in mind the tipicall too partial view, characteristic of imperialist nations, in relation to latin american countries.
On the other hand, being detractor of kirchnerism or of any other politic project, doesn't implicate to take the side of those who want to ruin the country. C. f. k. is just a temporal leader like any other, however, the sepoys who we have here don't make this lecture, and prefer taking the side of misserabe people, just because they hate c.f. k., or because maybe the worst that happened to them, was to be born in argentina.
@74axle aargh
Sep 01st, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“, characteristic of imperialist nations, in relation to latin american countries.”
“, the sepoys who we have here don't make this lecture, and prefer taking the side of misserabe people, just because they hate c.f. k., or because maybe the worst that happened to them, was to be born in argentina.”
Oh, come on, Axle, really?
“Imperialist” nations and “Sepoys”, “miserable people” who hate CFK.
Do you honestly believe there are imperialist foreigners and indigenous 'sepoys'who are wanting to undermine Argentine?
With what motive, what would that achieve? Do you think the foreigners would want to sabotage their own investments?
Why would Argentinians systematically sabotage their own country, when the CFK government “is temporal” and they could vote them out?
Why would patriotic Argentinians betray their own country when they know the government can be removed democratically, for now?
You have nationalised some foreign investments and the others are going to leave.
That is the goal of La Campora - isolation, economic and political control. Soon there will be no Democracy. All will be poor and CFK La Campora will control them as planned.
“If we want to have a developed country, it's absolutly necesary a strong and serious statal intervention, which develops ambitious industrial programmes, and give economic and financial support to bussines men.”
But you are NOT doing that. You are stealing from those “Business Men”, not “supporting” them.
Like Argie Aerolineas, you give the company to incompetent La Campora cronies and suck Argentina taxpayers dry to pay yourselves.
Where is your “intellectual honesty” now?
Troy give up. Axel is indocrinated and is self righteous in his self believe that he is above all others. He displays the “prooves” usually by making unsubstantiated statements of “his” facts. He calls himself a supporter of CFK policies (just to digress....what are they? To steal private business, embezzle from the country, payoff her cronies), but he is critical of her. Then tell us Axel why are you not concerned of you head of states mass corruption? Why are you not demanding she show her law credentials? Why are you not demanding that she justify evicting the people from there land and selling at ridiculous markups before their political careers?
Sep 02nd, 2013 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Troy Axel is a lost cause. October will be the true showdown of Argentina's future. As Hamlet said.....“to be....or not to be” That is the question Argentine's will find themselves asking.
Thx Poppy
Sep 02nd, 2013 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's pointless when the person is both stupid AND indoctrinated
A waste of time.
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