MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina, Uruguay and Venezuela fall dramatically in WEF Competitiveness ranking
The World Economic Forum Competitiveness report published last week shows Latinamerica is loosing ground in the world economy and the three countries which most plunged in the ranking in the last twelve months were: Venezuela, Argentina and Uruguay. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIt would be over 20 years since I read somewhere an article comparing Venezuela and South Korea.... even than there was a huge gulf.... Venezuela.... huge resources...SK.... nothing much.....Venezuelan education producing people with degrees in this and that... SK focused on the assorted trades and producing people who could actually do stuff.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0I hate to say that I think Straya started off down the Venezuelan road some years ago.
Wait what, CFK said the Argentine economy was performing better than the Australian and Canadian economies? Was this the winner of best joke at the Edinburgh festival?
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Switzerland - 1.3 Trillions
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Singapore - 1 Trillion
Finland - .5 Trillions
Germany - 5.4 Trillions
US - 16 Trilions
Sweden - 1 Trillion
Hong Kong - .8 Trillions
Holland - 2.6 Trillions
Japan - 2.6 Trillions
UK - 10 Trillions
And the grand sum is:
41.2 Trillions of dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Successful yes.
At borrowing money...
@3
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, as usual, cannot find fault with the facts presented by the article and tries to change the subject.
Argentina? Just like their navy, its sinking, sinking.... glug, glug, glug.....
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who on earth would like to become a colony of a banana republic?
As for debt Stevie, RGland has no ability to pay any of its massive debt back, so no one trusts it, nobody will lend to it, and thus it sinks further and further into the mire.
Change the subject?
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:20 am - Link - Report abuse 041.2 Trillions in debt and WEF highlights competiveness?
You don't think one thing has to do with another?
Countries that are backed by the IMF, the WB and the rating agencies are more competitive.... no shit, Sherlock...
Taking on debt have little to do with the effectiveness of the economy.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 05:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0The mother in law and family are coming over from Argentina tomorrow. She has paid tax all her life as it is taken at source. She works as a university lecturer and works longer hours than I do. She tried to get some dollars for travel the other day and AFIP said no. This is her only holiday of the year and she is coming over to see her daughter in her PhD graduation at Cambridge. Apparently the excuse given was that was some irregularities in tax payment but not from her side, from the side the the province. So the outcome is no money to travel with. AFIP said they might be able to give some money if she could find an accountant to audit her for every year that she has been working in the job as a professor (over 20 years in all). Given that you can only request money 7 days in advance of leaving the country; this was always going to be an impossible task. I'll pay for her and the rest of the family that come over but it's disgraceful that someone who has given over 20 years of service to the state can't even take a single dollar of the county to go on holiday. What was supposed to be an enjoyable holiday is now going to be ruined with her feeling guilty that we are paying for everything.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0@8 I hope that does not cause a problem at immigration. Arriving in the UK with no money is a red flag. Could she carry proof of her employment and her residence as a safeguard? Just a suggestion.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 05:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are a very generous person and I am sure they will repay the gesture the next time you visit them. :)
Poor Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0The article is clearly on competitiveness. Which funnily enough helps to boost economies and he is still focused on debt.
Not all debt is good.
But not all debt is bad.
Doubt the size of your economy and you effectively halve your debt burden.
Anyway interesting that current and acceding Pacific Alliance members are positioned so much higher than all Mercosur's current and acceding members except Brazil.
Telling actually. Can see where the higher growth as investment is.
@6
Sep 09th, 2013 - 07:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0To right Sherlock, I don't believe what you are are inferring.
The fact is that all those countries with “progressive” Gvts. ( regressive, by the contrary) are at the bottom of the list which helps to demonstrate that the excessive chatter and poor action on competiveness, stability and health economic policies lead to a deep failure for the citizens life quality......which means its democracy is a fraud.....
Sep 09th, 2013 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0At the other side, those countries with “capitalist” Gvts. (progressive, in the facts) enjoy the first positions of the list with good life quality for their people...
Those countries that have changed from “capitalist” to “progressive” (or leftist) have fell to their worst (Spain & Greece are a good samples) and the return to the right policies have meant very hard and painful measures......because the highly debt amount to support to much ineffective nationalized economies.....and they have a lot of time to pay for.....
50 % of the Latam economy is managed between the 4 PA country members with just one of the major economies of the region......Something to think of, thought.
I would have thought it was something like the WTA.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 07:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 07:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Productive countries all borrow - to further increase production and receipts. Some countries even borrow cheaply to lend elsewhere and make a return on it. There is a huge difference between short-term, cash-flow borrowing which delivers stability, and borrowing to finance the interest on existing debt. Ultimately, while people remain happy to trade in dollars, pounds, yen or euros then the debts of those countries are not an immediate problem. Therefore instead of deflecting you should look at these competitiveness figures very carefully. For once you should forget about saving face and actually look to the Chileans and ask yourself why they are highest in SA and Argentina is second from bottom. Continuing as you are simply is not a sensible option.
what, does the truth hurt? GDP to debt rate is no effective way to measure anything else but speed towards the abyss.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Those countries are not paying anything back, they are not even paying interests, as the debt is ever increasing.
Well, as the interest increase is percentual, the rise in GDP has to be as well in order to KEEP BALANCE. Not to improve economically, thy then a higher growth is needed.
Growth traduces in production and consumption.
In order to increase one, you need to increase the other.
For that you need resources, of the natural sort.
Technological advancement will help little, for the more technological advanced we get, the more resources do we (ab)use.
And the natural resources are limited.
Now, when they hit the roof, that's when we find out for real which ones are the most “competitive”...
Stevie,
Sep 09th, 2013 - 08:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your list shows total external debt. It is not the same as net debt.
Who do you think your $42 trillion are owed to?
Much of it is owed to the same countries on the list.
Do you really think Switzerland is a debtor nation??
Chile runs a global trade surplus and has low debt, so with your thinking we are one of the most competitive national in the world. That would be nice, but it ain't so. However we are the most competitive nation in Latam, which is good progress indeed.
Condorito
Sep 09th, 2013 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0The largest amounts are owed to private holders, but the largest mass of debt is to the pensionists, regardless of country.
Try again.
17. And so?
Sep 09th, 2013 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you think the USA is going to default on itself even if it was technically possible?
Is there one subject you can actually discuss intelligently?
Not at all, yanqui.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think they will raise the pension age to finally remove it as we know it.
Of course private pension will prevail.
More to the rich, less to the poor.
I also think wages are bound to drop, in order to further boost competitiveness.
I don't think though, that prices will drop accordingly, thus effectively reduce the middle class, once again...
17
Sep 09th, 2013 - 08:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0So in today's Stevinomics:
- Switzerland is in debt.
- Germany owes $5.4 trillion, mostly to its “pensionists” and is moving at “speed towards the abyss”.
Right.
Comment removed by the editor.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 019. Is that English? WTF are you trying to say in that jumble of words?
Sep 09th, 2013 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Possibly those are Anarchist talking points that you don't fully understand and certainly can't put together in thoughtful manner.
@9 ElaineB
Sep 09th, 2013 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hi Elaine. Thanks for the post. I've already given her a signed letter of introduction from me stating exactly when she is arriving and that we will be looking after her/them and she has all of her documentation with her too. To be honest, they are a wonderful family and I'm very lucky to have such a great bunch in in-laws, just such a shame that systems such as these really hit the hard working famlies...
What a non-story.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina nearing the bottom of the pile eh?
Sep 09th, 2013 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Venezuela classified with Zimbabwe, Chad etc?
Seems about right.
Cuba, North Korea and Iran are your pals?
Time to go outside and shoot yourself!
I know it bemuses you to no end Faz, why Argentina is no longer friends with the Euroopean nations.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0The reason is simple, Iran, North Korea and Zimbabwe tell us everything good or bad in our face, honesty. Europeans nations like yours will tell us poetry in our face but as soon as the doors are locked they plot against you, to take away your recsources and even territory if possible, since “we” are inferior and less human, in your “cultural/racial” view. That's how Europeans have always been.
We've learned our lesson, and we are siding with the honest side of the world.
@19 Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0When the state pension was introduced in the UK only about one fifth of workers lived long enough to receive it. Nowadays most people in Britain can expect to live for at least 15-20 years after retirement and that number continues to climb. So if working for 2-3 more years keeps the whole thing funded then is that really so bad? What really hurts the pensioners is inflation, which in the UK is currently down to 3%. Countries where inflation is ~25% are the ones where pensioners see their pensions and savings massively devalued. So if you are worried about the worker or the pensioner then you need to get inflation down and make yourself competitive - there are no short cuts.
Tobi
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinians are Europeans. You klled off nearly all he Indians
You live in Europe anyway
We all tell YOU the truth
Why do we offer young Argentinians scholarships at our Universities free of charge?
The only racists we encounter on Mercopress seem to be Argentinians?
Argentines are Europeans. Wrong
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0I live in Europe. Wrong
We all tell YOU the truth. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Why offer scholarships? Because you are disgraceful poachers.
I won't dignify responding to the last one, a European calling others racists. Like an anus calling a bidet crappy.
@29 “why offer scholarships”
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Charity
“Argentina, Uruguay and Venezuela fall dramatically in WEF Competitiveness ranking”
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0The miracle of Mercosur !!
@29 Tobias
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are European. Everytime you look in the mirror you see your European features. You speak a European language. You have European traditions.
Europe and the USA tells you the truth, but you don't like the truth, because the truth means that you have to pay all that money that you owe.
What truth has Iran ever told? They murdered Argentine citizens, and yet you applaud them for it.
What truth has North Korea ever told? They oppress and murder their own citizens, yet deny it, despite the proof.
Yes really good friends you have their.
@3, 6, 15, 17, 19 Notice you didn't bother mentioning anywhere from “your” continent. How about argieland, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador, Venezuela? Don't miss out argieland's US$100 billion plus interest that it's still trying to steal. Don't forget that you like “isolation”. How you going to “compete” when you're “isolated”? And so, in the near future, argieland will have no “pension age”. It'll be “work 'til you drop.” Hang on, isn't argieland already there? “Work 'til you drop or starve.”
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0@21 If the US is a “non-country” it's seems strange that it's a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Any latam states permanent members of the Council? US is a member of G7. Any latam states? How about G8? Nope. You need to get some clue about what you are talking about. Then you might have some credibility.
@24, 26, 29. Go for it. The fate of Iran, North Korea and Zimbabwe will be extended to you.
@30
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Probably not. But this article may shed a clue as to why the UK is seeking foreign talent everywhere suddendly:
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/how-london-skyscraper-can-melt-cars-set-buildings-fire-8C11069092
British engineering at its finest... hahahahahaha.
Well conq, a trillion is 1000 billions, and you are crying about Arg debt.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0How about paying your own debt?
Right, you already do that... That would explain the constant increase.
Truth is, you lot don't even cover the interests.
@34 did you read the article? The architect was from Uruguay, seems like it would have been better off if they had had a British Architect work on it.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0School is out in Mendoza.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Increase in internet trolling expected:
http://www.losandes.com.ar/notas/2013/9/9/clases-manana-pero-esperan-zonda-baje-llano-tarde-737205.asp
@Stevie.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Less than 5% of our budget goes to pay the interest on our debt.
So yes we're good for a few years yet! You really should look these things up first.
@Tobi
Yes and the skyscraper rotates so we can reflect the sun into the Ecuadorian and the Argentinian embassies. Clever eh?
Redrow
Sep 09th, 2013 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0And that's just not enough, now is it?
@24 Well it is charity. They can't afford it so, being the kind gracious people that we are, we give them a little bit of cash so that they can come to a university with facilities
Sep 09th, 2013 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not sure if you are being ironic or literal. Yes it is enough. Governments issue Gilts and Bonds to cover their debt and they pay interest on them. The interest rate we pay is pretty low precisely because the investor knows we will pay it back (i.e. low risk). Similarly the rates paid to insure these investments are also very low because the insurers believe we are extremely unlikely to default. So yes, we pay our debt. What made you think we wouldn't?
Sep 09th, 2013 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@34 Tobias
Sep 09th, 2013 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm surprised your insane dictator of a President hasn't sent her puppet Timerman to the UN to complain about the new secret British Weapon, that can harness the rays of the sun to destroy all.
Maybe we should build one of the Falkland Islands and direct the rays towards Argentina.
Lol it would make Argentina's ugly flag quite ironic if we sizzled them with a solar beam.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 034 The Truth PaTroll (#)
Sep 09th, 2013 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sep 09th, 2013 - 10:25 am
Tobias: Please stop trying to find ways to get at the Brits on this forum, you're not very good at it!!!!!!!
In this case, Rafael Viñoly, the architect who designed this building not only is Uruguayan, but studied architecture at the BUENOS AIRES University!!!!!!!
So your attempt at getting at the Brits has just made Argentia look worse!!!!!
#41
Sep 09th, 2013 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What made you think we wouldn't?”
The flaw in your question is the word “think”.
Truth_Telling_Troll rose to immortality ago 10 score. There was only one and will ever be only one, who dazzled opponents and sympathisers alike with his iconic and unmatched knowledge, acumen, and noetic prowess. No one has matched him since, not even me admittedly.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He was one of a kind and no glib Ersatz such as above will replicate him.
@44
Shock shock... but ARCHITECTS are NOT ENGINEERS. Architects are payedto DESIGN structures based on need and aesthetic, NOT to design the actual construction, feasibility, or the like.
It was up to the clearly UNQUALIFIED BRITISH engineers to figure out prior to construction that
a) a giant concave magnifying glass made of reflective glass facing south may not be exactly the best idea on the planet
b) the effects of the construction on the sorrounding areas, especially in Europe where there are so many other ancient buildings around a site
As usual you are a typical turncoat who tergiversates at the slighest parting of the door.
The Architecture is perfect, it is just not suited for the case above. That is up to engineers and the LOCALS to figure out, not an architect who has no idea of the layout of the land and is hired only to design a building!
FAIL Simon.
We all know that Stevie cannot get his head around government finance, just like the old commie Pepe, his idol (see below).
Sep 09th, 2013 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The ONLY thing I have to criticise this article on is that Uruguay SHOULD be included in the “The government is not ruled by economic efficiency but rather by political cronyism and punishing those “who don’t belong to us” statement because Pepe has stuffed the ministries with his bestist commie scum mates who have NF idea what they are doing.
Stevie: what about Pepe writing back the debt in Uruguay so that if you ever make it back here to stay YOUR children and YOUR grandchildren will have to pay it back? Not too much of a sacrifice for a really good old commie though, is it?
Two generations of debt legacy for FOUR years of this commie crap.
#46 TTPT
Sep 09th, 2013 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Worship not false idols.
You were dazzled by my star, but I am not immortal.
On the night of the long knives you only saw me dragged from my desk but what you didn't see is that I eluded them. Now, free from their threats I can at last tell the truth. I hope that one day you may also become free.
In the meantime my little disciple:
(a) a magnifying glass is CONVEX not CONCAVE.
(b) the past of “pay” is “paid” not “payed”
(c) you know as little about construction as you do about magnifying glasses.
Standards have slipped since I've been gone.
You are both impostors!! I am the true descendant of TTT, for 14 generations up to my birth.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will prove it with one of my quatrains, that you are antichrists in blasphemy of the word of TTT.
@49
Sep 09th, 2013 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Running from the truth @48.
TTT ©
@34
Sep 09th, 2013 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FYI that building (20 Fenchurch Street) was designed by the Italian architect Rafael Viñoly.
Redrow
Sep 09th, 2013 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Explain then how come your [external] debt is ever increasing.
Is it because you pay it off?
Lets see, basic maths would enlighten you on the fact that should you truly pay the interests, the debt would stay put and not increase. Should you in fact pay off the debt, it would shrink over time.
Now tell me, when was the last time the external debt of any of those above mentioned countries decreased?
And who [outside MP] believes that taking another loan in order to cover the last one qualifies as repaying?
Trying to explain economics to Stevie is like trying to light up the Gran Canyon with a flashlight.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An example of Stevie economics:
Country Z owes country Y 800 fuffies.
Country Y owes country Z 801 fuffies.
Stevienomics: Net debt is 1 601 fuffies.
Human economics: Net debt is 1 fuffy.
St John
Sep 09th, 2013 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That would be true should the countries owe to eachother.
They don't.
The grand majority of the debt is to private holders and pensionists.
So, the net debt is roughly all your fuffies...
“Trying to explain economics to Stevie is like trying to light up the Gran Canyon with a flashlight.”
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol
@52
I tried explaining to Stevie @16 that external debt was not net...and here we are @53 and he still doesn't get it.
@53
“the net debt is roughly all your fuffies” would only be the case if all your “private holders and pensionists” resided outside all the countries on your list.
To use St.John's example:
Country Z owes (private holders in) country Y 800 fuffies.
Country Y owes (private holders in) country Z 801 fuffies.
Stevienomics: Net debt is 1 601 fuffies.
Human economics: Net debt is 1 fuffy.
@ 51 Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And who [outside MP] believes that taking another loan in order to cover the last one qualifies as repaying?”
I think you may have missed a step in the order of sovereign debt.
Pepe has just done EXACTLY what you have said (by implication) should not be done!
I said this in post 47) above. What has happened is that the government has effectively “rolled over” the existing debts into one big “offering” at a certain interest rate and time to maturity, with the rate determined by the amount bought. The more bought the more interest the buyer gets. Buyers can start at USD 50 M. That is even out of my range. :o)
Now, in the years ahead they will roll over this debt again AS LONG AS INTEREST RATES ARE AS LOW AS NOW!
Why repay the debt using up valuable cash reserves for funding the government fabled “social inclusion schemes” when you can pay just the interest? This is what is so attractive to socialist / commie governments because they know that they won’t be around when the time to pay them back arrives.
The real problem is of course when the cost of credit goes higher and higher and Uruguay is seen to be weak WHICH PUSHES THE INTEREST RATES EVEN HIGHER.
Can you see a pattern here which TMBOA is presently facing? Eventually the country runs out of creditors and cannot service the debt it has AND THEN IT BECOMES ANOTHER ARGENTINA. Nobody but nobody will lend it any money: result – default.
Pepe and Toplansky are so up the arse of TMBOA that they cannot see what the argies are up to. Pepe has even less understanding of these matters than you do I am afraid.
@8, Wlsh Wizard, THANKS for the heads up.. I think we will be having my Arg's U.S. relatives vouch for him when he travels here.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9 Elaine, great advice as usual
Condorito
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0External debt has nothing to do with the borders of a country.
Before you try to explain anything to anybody, make sure you know at least a bit about the topic...
In economics, “residence” refers to the Financial centre the debtor/creditor belongs to, not the country...
Once more for Stevie, using my flashlight to enlighten the Gran Canyon.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The bilateral foreign gross debt are the sums of everything institutions, companies and persons owe to institutions, companies and persons in the other country.
When country Z's debt to country Y is counted, one counts the sum of government and private debts.
Z(government) + Z(private).
Both one and the other.
The sum.
Although it may sound incredible to some, the same holds for country Y's debts.
To get the net debt you subtract one bilateral gross debt from the the other bilateral gross debt. A difference is a net debt.
Examples from the real world:
31 December 2009 Italy owed Ireland 46 billion US$ while Ireland owed Italy 18 bio. US$. Net debt was not - repeat NOT - 64 bio. US$, it was only 28 bio. US$
31 December 2009 Italy owed Spain 47 bio. US$ while Spain owed Italy 31 bio. US. Net debt was not - repeat NOT - 78 bio. US$, it was only 16 bio. US$
Sorry, my flashlight ran out of batteries.
And Argentine ows no one, since we defaulted and no one bailed us out.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Downside? Massive recession 2002.
Upside? Unlike all other countries on EARTH (Which were helped in trying times, we were not), we can get away with not paying a cent.
St John
Sep 09th, 2013 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is pure drivel...
In real life, Italy owes to Mr X in in Ireland and Ireland owes to Mrs Y in Italy.
It's true that private [external] debt is mixed in the numbers, but the vast majority is not private [as in private debtor].
In the end you get a poorer Italy, a poorer Ireland, and a very happy couple in Mr x and Mrs Y...
Who pays for the party in Ireland and Italy?
We all know who, don't we? The usual suspect...
I just found out that Americans think that all British are named “Derreck Newcastle” or “Nigel Allister” ... hahahahahahaha! That's too funny because it is true actually.
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@58 St John
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're wasting your batteries, not even Hiroshima would light him up.
So Stevinomic stunners for today:
- Switzerland is in debt.
- Germany owes $5.4 trillion, mostly to its “pensionists” and is moving at “speed towards the abyss”.
- External debt has nothing to do with the borders of a country.
Condorito
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Switzerland owes 1.3 Trillion dollars. You think Swiss top 20 will pay that debt?
That's not counting the governmental debt, or public. Don't get confused now.
If you don't call that a debt, I'm not sure what you would call it. Investment?
Germany, as all the other countries that are trying to counter the debt by keeping that Growth up, with ever increasing production and the inevitable consumption that follows, are heading towards a direction that has only one outcome. Like it or not. Regardless ideology.
A foreign company can lend money to a country in form of bonds for example, even within that country's borders. So no, external debt has nothing to do with geographical borders and everything to do with financial ones,
@51 Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You appear very confused over this. In post 35 you said we didn't even pay the interest on our debt. However as we have never defaulted on our bonds then that is patently untrue. Why would you think that a country couldn't increase its total debt while still servicing the debt? Most countries do that during and after recessions. As long as the markets believe you will pay it back then you can borrow quite cheaply. However, uniquely recalcitrant debtors are not viewed the same way by the markets and struggle to borrow. Sounds fair enough really doesn't it?
Wow Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You need a bigger shovel!
You forget the simply basic premise of debt, ONE PERSON'S DEBT IS ANOTHER PERSON'S ASSET.
So as all debt is owed to someone who exists somewhere on planet EARTH.
But thanks for highlighting your own stupidity for everyone to see. Guess I'll head off camping now. LOL
Redrow
Sep 09th, 2013 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, having in mind that the IMF and the WB are instances that are controlled by the developed nations, not to mention the rating agencies, no. Not fair at all.
The idea that the poor countries should pay more interest for the sake of being poor is quite disgusting indeed...
Anglolatino
The problem arises when the creditors are few and the masses are the debtors, for example when bank(er)s are saved by the tax payers...
Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the interest rate for lending to all countries was by law the same, then people would only buy the bonds of rich countries since these would be safer. The result would be that poor countries would be unable to sell their bonds and would quickly run out of cash and their poorest citizens would freeze or starve. Thus to prevent this and to incentivise the markets to take a higher risk and lend to poor countries then there needs to be a higher interest rate. I'm not sure why you think it is disgusting. If a poor country wants to pay a lower interest rate on its debt then it should either borrow less, grow itself more, or pool its sovereignty with others. Would you lend money at 1% interest if you were told that there was little chance of you ever getting your money back? No, and nor would I. Why is that disgusting?
@67 Stevie
Sep 09th, 2013 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe Mercosur could fund their own International Loan Program.
The Mercosur Monetary Fund would treat nations better and be more successful, right?
Redrow
Sep 10th, 2013 - 03:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because it's a system designed to keep the rich rich at the expense of the poor.
Bushpilot
Banco del Sur still awaits the ratification of Brazil. They themselves are discussing if to either fund that project, or a BRIC development bank. Either way, I see an improvement in the horizon.
@Stevie
Sep 10th, 2013 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0The system has not been “designed” at all. It has simply evolved this way. Financial prudence and hard work tends to be rewarded whereas financial recklessness tends to be punished. If you believe that the world owes you a living then I'm afraid you are in for a disappointment. You might also want to look at this morning's University QS data. The only 4 LA countries with Universities in the top 10 for Latin America are Chile, Brazil, Mexico and Columbia each with at least two. It is no coincidence that these countries are doing generally better than others in LA. Like I said above, there are no shortcuts in life.
Not at all Redrow, the very fact that almost entire LA is making you lot scream and cry is a perfect indication on how the system is designed..
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Terrorists, socialists, communists, narco barons... You lot have many names for those who disagree with your sacking, torturing and murder...
Iraq and Afghanistan helped push that GDP rate up. Later Libya. Next up is Syria.
Of course you can't just invade at will, so you lot spend a couple of months telling the world just how bad the coming victim is, until you reach a point where the majority supports the invasion.
Bush was too blatant, wasn't he...?
The UK (Manchester to be specific) is where the Trades Union movement began. It is also where the Co-operative movement started (Rochdale). It is where Marx and Engels began their discussions that lead to the Communist Manifesto. We need no lectures on socialism from LA, we pretty much invented it. That you think you make us scream and cry shows how little you truly know of us. I have not used any names above to insult LA, I have simply pointed out economic realities that Chile and Brazil clearly both understand but that Argentina appears unwilling to face.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0I repeat, the system was not designed, it simply evolved. And in any case, the original banking system began in present-day Italy and not in Britain, so the Latin descendents of those early Italian bankers should bear more of the blame/credit than us Brits.
You wish to divide people using national borders, I prefer to use ideologies...
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0That doesn't even mean anything. I don't want to divide anyone. I have restricted most/all of my comments here to economics and to refuting your claims about the UK. As for ideologies, they are for simple-minded people who prefer political mantras to genuine debate and political evolution.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0@75
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0well said
@71 The system has been designed this way, you mean.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@77
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0This isn't the Matrix.
There isn't a “system” with an Architect.
The systems we have evolve.
They are not controlled by one group or one person.
@78 and the moon is made of cheese.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0and Gonzo is a sock puppet
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh gosh I was starting to cut and paste the idiotic Stevie statements but it got to be too large of a task!
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0He has absolutely no idea of how anything works
Stevie, you are just about to take away the dumbest poster on the board title from Axel.
You should be proud.
Based on the above, I have come to the conclusion that “Stevie” is a cover for the Argentine minister of finance - that explains a lot :-)
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know I'm in the right when your lots only arguments are insults.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets do this anytime
;)
82 St.John
Sep 10th, 2013 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! :o)
The argie pillock , yes I see where you are coming from BUT, I raise you by ONE TWAT: the Finance Minister of Uruguay.
See how I trumped you there!
LOLs (apart from I live under this bunch of commie clowns, but they are going soon)
Stevie, We've just given up, it is easier to explain the color blue to a dog than economics to you.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For gosh sakes go take some classes you are hopeless at this point.
Stevie, this is the heart of your challenge- you think for one person to go up, the other person has to go down. One person's succcess doesn't mean you're on your way down, clown!
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact, success spreads! The internet, the shorter workweek, smartphones, Windows OS. 99% of computers on Planet Earth are run on an OS created on the West Coast.
And srsly, don't cry poor and then run around in designer clothes in clubs, crying victim while roasting factory-farmed beings.
Because the enteratining thing is there is NO ONE, not one poor person scavenging for wire, outside of Arg who has sympathy for the plight of the BsAs porteño's.
To the rich it's probably just funny.
Capitalism did not work in Argentina. Period.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You forgot to add “Simple as that”
Sep 11th, 2013 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0retard
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!