MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
The figure of Pinochet forty years later still divides Chile
Chile's conservative government and center-left opposition held separate events on Monday in the capital Santiago to mark the 40th anniversary of the bloody coup that ushered in 17 years of harsh military rule under the late Gen. Augusto Pinochet. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesA country that talks about and discusses and takes ownership of events in its history is much less likely to repeat them.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0The silver linings should never eclipse the price that was paid. And as the pain recedes and those involved pass on, I believe that Chile will find itself more at peace.
Had Allende prevailed, Chavez would have seemed like a Scandinavian Social Democrat. What is seen and what is not seen.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 04:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0The brutal coup forestalled a savage Marxist régime, which might well have killed many more, and had Allende remained, perhaps Argentina would have attacked Chile over the Beagle Channel in 1978 or sooner, or in 1982.
Those who went to East Gemany have nothing to teach anyone about decency or freedom.
Mr Ed
Sep 10th, 2013 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are spreading propaganda.
Allende was democratically chosen.
@ 3 Allende's government was condemned as unconstitutional by the Chilean Congress before the coup. It had become an illegal régime and was clearly intent on a 'socialist transformation'. That Allende won an election aftter the Congress ratified the popular vipote did not give Allende licence to do what he did, nor what he intended to do.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Imagine Germany had Hitler been removed by the Reichsheer in 1936.
And what exactly did Allende intend to do? And how come a selected few can impose their will on the majority of the electorate?
Sep 10th, 2013 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think this “President Sebastian Piñera, a billionaire businessman who began amassing his fortune during the Pinochet era.” is a rather snide statement. It implies he became rich because he worked with Pinochet when, in fact, it was because a free market economy was introduced at that time.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 06:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know, the one major reason people feared the vote that eventually led to the removal of Pinochet and the return to democracy was that no one wanted to go back to the chaos under Allende. He was an idealist and his methods did not work. He took the country to the scrap heap.
Not incidentally, you should study how Allende was elected. It was more by accident than intent by the voting public.
“Allende was democratically chosen.”
Sep 10th, 2013 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0So was Hitler!
Idiot!
Allende killed nobody. Pibochet did.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lets call wine wine and bread bread...
@ 8. Allende killed himself. And look at the chaos before and the arms caches found after the coup.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pinochet was far too power-hungry, General Leigh was a better man.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/1999/oct/02/guardianobituaries1
How about Victor Jara, and the thousands of Chilenos fusilated against a wall? How about the assassination camp inside the national stadium?
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really? Allende's men never killed anyone? What about after his death? The fact is he represented a Marxist movement that was curtailed before it completely ruined the country.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@9 Pinochet was certainly corrupted by power.
Who did Allendes men kill. I know for a fact that Allende never supported MIR, as the Tupamaros exiled in Chile weren't allowed to interfere in national politics, especially not with the MIR.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Should Allende had mobilized the guerrillas, the outcome would've been totally different.
Just look at the Tancazo, what was that all about if not a way to measure the resistance?
I've always been, and always will be a Tory, before anyone thinks I'm a leftie! I've been following this forum for a while but had to make a comment on this topic. Allende won a democratic election, like it or loathe it. There were no indications whatsoever that he wouldn't have accepted the result of the next election. If we are believers in democracy and that the voice of the people (as in the Falklands referendum) should be heard, then we have to accept the result of an election. It was only the intervention of the CIA that helped to destabilise Chile that let to the near breakdown of the economy. Not the first, nor the last time, that our American cousins have intervened in Latin America (we all know, or should know on this forum, the remarks made by Kissinger when the generals took over in Argentina). So, if we believe in democracy, we should accept the result and wait for the next election to throw out the party we don't like, not stage a foreign (CIA) sponsored coup before the election. If Allende had refused to hold an election, then fair enough, but to stage a coup before the due election date was totally unacceptable.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tomorrow we will be treated to the ironic spectacle of people who would have had us live under a Castro style dictatorship, freely expressing themselves in the streets. They will be followed by people who were born 20 years after the coup throwing petrol bombs and firing shot guns at the police. I thank these two groups, both the old guard and the new for highlighting their own idiocy and reminding the nation never to go near marxism again.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0The human loss brought about by the coup was a tragedy for which the blame has to be shared. Those who lay the blame squarely at the door of Pinochet ignore the fact that when you start a fight you don't get to choose how it finishes.
The military is a blunt instrument here or anywhere else. The military was not united at the time. The Navy took the lead followed by the airforce. The speed and brutality of the coup stamped Pinochet's authority on the armed forces. Divided armed forces and/or any quarter for armed factions would have been a disaster.
As coups go the losses were minimal (just look over the Andes).
As dictators go Pinochet was exceptional (just look over the Andes).
He strengthened national institutions, he fixed the economy, he eradicated the cancer of communism and he returned democracy.
Por la razón o la fuerza.
¡Viva Chile!
And he killed people, cut their hands off for playing guitar, he ordered men to be shot in front of their families.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry Condorito, we'll make sure the TRUE story is told for generations to come.
Nunca mas!
Argentina needs a Pinochet.
Sep 10th, 2013 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fix that horrible place once and for all.
Condorito, I presume from your remarks that you don't believe in democracy. It may have been a marxist government, but in a democratic system all parties are allowed to participate in an election. The communist party was a legal party and entitled to stand. I profoundly disagree with them but that's the nature of democracy. Are you saying that just because you disagree with a democratically elected government the armed forces are entitled to intervene?
Sep 10th, 2013 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie,
Sep 10th, 2013 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0You see what I say is actually true. I recognize the achievements of Pinochet's and the abuses of his regime.
The truth is already known and much justice has been done.
“cut their hands off for playing guitar”
Jara's hands were not cut off. If you don't believe me ask his widow who identified his body, or the judge who had it exhumed with both hands attached. He was murdered, yes, but these childish stories you tell are part of the false legacy that seek to divide.
Victor's murderers were tried, found guilty and sentenced. We've been there, done that and moved on.
Pinochets big pal was Maggie. They were out of a similar mould. She too was like the curates egg, bad and good. RGland could do with a big helping of their sort of politics. Without the violence of course. A failing nation could be turned around..
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have a question:
Sep 10th, 2013 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok we all agree fascism is evil (world war, 10's of millions of deaths, the holocaust). Why don't people think the same of Communism, Stalin & Mao Zedong killed more of their own people then Hitler did in a world war. And why do so many South Americans believe in an ideology that proved morally bankrupted by the 1920's?.
As for Pinochet, its a hard one. Would Chile be one of the leading South American countries without his legacy?.
(13) & (17) ExpatBsAs
Sep 10th, 2013 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly I want to say that I've always been, and always will be a Socialdemocrat , before anyone “Thinks” I'm a rightie....
Secondly I want to welcome you to this pages and tell you that you sound like the kind of Tory that gives the Tory Party a good name....
A pity there ain't many more like you.....
In the hope that BsAs is treating you kindly....
Yours....
El Think, Chubut, Argentina.
I've been following this forum for a while but had to make a comment on this
@ExpatBsAs
Sep 10th, 2013 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There was CIA involvement, there was also Russian and Cuban involvement.
You say:
“There were no indications whatsoever that he wouldn't have accepted the result of the next election.”
There are no indications there would have been more elections. How many communist states have held free elections after coming to power? Cuba was the HQ of the movement, Cuba was the model.
You say the CIA destabilized the economy. Did they destabilize the economy of every other communist county too. Here was me thinking that they failed because communism didn't work.
In a democracy you don't buy votes with food tickets. In a free country you don't expropriate land, houses and businesses. A free country is not infiltrated by foreign fighters and the president does not have a detachment of Cuban body guards.
So, people are free to hold democratic elections as long as they choose whom YOU agree with...
Sep 10th, 2013 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You Sire, are outdated...
@20 “And why do so many South Americans believe in an ideology that proved morally bankrupted by the 1920's?.”
Sep 10th, 2013 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From the Communists I've seen in Argentinian boards, they think that capitalism is fundamentally “evil”. There's also the fact that pretty much everyone believes that the reason Latin America is poor is due to the USA and the UK using capitalism and their competitive advantage in manufactured goods to exploit other countries (this is the dependence theory which is one of the basic tenets of Peronism).
@yankeeboy
Sep 10th, 2013 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina needs a Pinochet.
Fix that horrible place once and for all.
I've lived in Argentina for nearly 10 years in the last 12, and found it to be a wonderful place t live. Of course it has problems with corruption and the crime rate in Buenos Aires could be better, but which country hasn't got similar problems? Haven't various MPs in the UK been sent to prison recently? I've spent time in the US and the crime rate in parts of that country are fare worse than in Argentina.
I'd be interested why you think its such a horrible place and even more so why any country would need an army general to stage a coup against a democratically elected government and murder thousands of people and torture many more. Can you enlighten us? Or are you just shouting off an easy slogan?
@cornishair
I think you'll find that most people accept that “Stalin & Mao Zedong killed more of their own people then Hitler did in a world war.” I'm not sure how many Argentines you know but in my circles that is taken for granted. How many Argentines do you actually know in person and had a political discussion with? Admittedly I know a few otherwise intelligent people who are blind to what CFK is doing to their country, but the majority of people are coming to their senses, hence the recent election results.
@Condorito
There are no indications there would have been more elections.
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. He had been democratically elected, the next elections would have been in 1976. Just because you think they might not be held doesn't give the US and its allies the right to prevent them being held. And if you're so concerned with free elections being held, could you remind us of the date of the next free elections elections that were held under Pinochet?
There certainly were arms supplied by Cuba, but that was in response to the failed coup of june that year. It was clear that the army was planning a coup with US help, what should the government have d
As survivor of the 1.000 evil days of the marxist - leninist Gvt. leaded by the coward & corrupt Allende I can tell you as follows....The Chilean drama started on 1967 when the Chilean communist party congress stated that the only way to the power will be the violent way.....helped by the agrarian reform law driven by Eduardo Frei Sr. & DC party Gvt. wich started the robbery of the rural land.......Allende was elected with the 30% of the votes, with a difference of 3.000 votes with the first runner up Mr. Alessandri, but it was confirmed at the Parliament with the help of the DC congressmen with an agreement act that never was respected by Allendes....In his first speech the day of his “victory” that “democratic” politician stated that his Gvt. won´t be for the all Chileans but his follower.....His behaviour as president was from the beginning controversial, law bordering, dividing, corrupt, violent which leaded the Congress to declare it as illegal, as well the General Controller Office rejected all the intents to expropriate rural lands, factories and business of all sizes so Allende used the insistence decrees after provoking fake strikes and take over on them with the result of a loss of productivity and shortfall of products even the basic and with an economic wrong concept it was fertile land to print money bills which lead us to the highest inflation rate never known before in the country with 1.000% in a year...Odiousness was the daily food for the Chilean society who saw how the institutions and Constitution were daily broken with armed gangs conformed by Chilean and foreigner extremist from the worst leftist neighbour specimen that KILLED innocent citizens, military and opponents......Allende declared the leftist extremist gangs as “idealist young” even they killed and terrifying people....Allende was who called the armed forces high officers to the politics including them as Cabinet members, he was who boasted showing how he shot an AK 47 machine gun,,,
Sep 10th, 2013 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, my earlier post was cut short, I shall have to watch the limit on words in future. Here's the remainder:
Sep 11th, 2013 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Condorito
There are no indications there would have been more elections.
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. He had been democratically elected, the next elections would have been in 1976. Just because you think they might not be held doesn't give the US and its allies the right to prevent them being held. And if you're so concerned with free elections being held, could you remind us of the date of the next free elections elections that were held under Pinochet?There certainly were arms supplied by Cuba, but that was in response to the failed coup of june that year. It was clear that the army was planning a coup with US help, what should the government have done, roll over and accept it?
If you doubt that the CIA was actively destabilising the country I think you should give yourself a history lesson. A good start would be reading a little on The Church Commission, a US senate committee report on the activities of the CIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Commission). I've travelled a lot in Latin America because of work, and I found that the cause of much of the anti-US sentiment there is due to US interference in other countries' political affairs, which has been on a far grander scale than the communists. I suggest you do a bit more research.
@MagnusMaster
From the Communists I've seen in Argentinian boards, they think that capitalism is fundamentally “evil”.
I think that goes without saying, they would say that wouldn't they!
@Think from Chabut
Thanks for your kind comments. You have some beautiful beaches down there.
And to everyone, sorry for the long post, I'm visiting family in Australia at the moment and the time difference makes it difficult to keep up.
@Sergio: Your rant doesn't make a lot of sense, but to get the facts right: Allende got 36.2% of the votes, not 30%, Alessandri 34.9%, and Tomic 27.8%. Easy to check.
@Expat
Sep 11th, 2013 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rather than suggesting history lessons for me, why don't you read my post. Re the CIA: @22 I said:
“There was CIA involvement, there was also Russian and Cuban involvement.”
I also asked you:
”Did they (CIA) destabilize the economy of every other communist county too?“
I am sure you will know from your extensive research that Pinochet was not the CIA's man, they did not want him in power. The CIA was one of many players, national and international. There were many national forces pushing for the removal of Allende.
You seem convinced that Pinochet was part of a US project, but fail to see that Allende was part of the Russian/Cuban communist project. If you think it is ”ridiculous“ to believe there wouldn't have been more elections then you ignore the fate of every other country that fell in to the communist sphere.
You ask me how long it took Pinochet to allow an election. A lot less that it is taking Castro.
Moving on to democracy, you say:
”So, if we believe in democracy, we should accept the result and wait for the next election to throw out the party we don't like”
That is all well and good but there are many instances in which this is just naive. When a leader starts overriding the law and the constitution action need to be taken. If only the German army had stopped Hitler. If the due processes have been compromised, a coup is often inevitable. Of course once the military are in they override the law too. You are out of the frying pan and into the fire, hence my point above: when you start a fight you don't get to choose how it finishes. As Sergio @26 correctly points out the fight started mid 60s with Allende's party openly calling for an armed struggle and a totalitarian solution. Cuban trained and armed fighters started grouping in Chile in the late 60s not as the result of a failed coup. They had no democratic intentions for Chile and I, like most compatriots, am glad their project failed and we grew up in a free, democratic, stable Chile.
Condorito,
Sep 11th, 2013 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't realise that you were Chilean, that explains a lot.
I've met many Chileans through my work travelling around Latin America, and many of them agreed that the coup was a good thing. But they tended to be business owners and the upper classes. The others that I met would think that your comment that you “grew up in a free, democratic, stable Chile.” to be a sick joke.
Its certainly hypocritical to criticise Allende for probably not holding an election 3 years hence, and then lauding the people who deposed him and then failed to hold an election for another 16 years. Meanwhile murdering and torturing thousands of people, closing down the National Congress and the Constitutional Tribunal, banning political parties and trade unions, burning the electoral rolls, and halting all the reforms that the government had been elected to do. What a scandal, an elected government actually carrying out its platform! Normally we'd condemn a government for not doing that.
I think its going to be a waste of my time arguing this with you. To describe the Pinochet years as free and democratic is absurd beyond words, so I'll leave you to your delusions.
But that's just me, an old fashioned Tory businessman, a believer in democracy.
Pinochetist, that explains it all.
Sep 11th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29
Sep 11th, 2013 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You believe in democracy. How many marxist democracies can you point me to? Sorry, didn't catch that.
You clearly haven't spent much time in Chile. Much of Pinochet's support came from the working classes. I am not upper class and have no family, friends or associates that are. The majority of us will tell you that Chile is better as a result of the coup. The majority will also tell you that the abuses were criminal and it is right that many have been jailed for their crimes. Small minorities will say everything about the coup was good or that everything was bad.
To defend the coup and criticize Allende is not hypocritical. The were not events that could be held, one in each hand and analysed in parallel. One was consequent of the other. I criticize Allende because his actions pushed the country to collapse. I criticized the dictatorship for staying too long. However 17 years of Pinochet was better for the country than a totalitarian communist dictatorship.
I can appreciate that the complexities of a political minefield might be too much for one used to the rolling green fields of a mature and institutionally solid nation. At least your Tory matriarch understood democracy has shades of grey.
What you are talking about, condorito, is democracy by convenience... In effect, you support dictatorships as long as you are not the target.
Sep 11th, 2013 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People like you are the reason we still are under development as self-sufficient nations...
(31) Condorito......
Sep 11th, 2013 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say to (29) ExpatBsAs, a Tory Englishman....:
“I can appreciate that the complexities of a political minefield might be too much for one used to the rolling green fields of a mature and institutionally solid nation.”
I say....:
Curiously enough...., Uruguayan Stevie and this humble Argentinean seem to be more in agreement with the above Englishman ExPat than with you, my Shilean little brother......
............. Maybe because we, Uruguayans and Argentineans, are soooo used to the rolling green fields of our mature and institutionally solid nations.....;-)
@Think
Sep 11th, 2013 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
”............. Maybe because we, Uruguayans and Argentineans, are soooo used to the rolling green fields of our mature and institutionally solid nations.....;-)”
Or maybe marxism never pushed your countries to the brink of civil war...
Or maybe your junta were that much bloodier and indiscriminant....
Maybe your junta didn't pave the road to a strong and stable democracy.
@34 Military rule has gone forever in Chile and Argentina, accept it and turn the page.
Sep 11th, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(34) Condorito
Sep 11th, 2013 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should indeed follow the advice from Mr. ExpatBsAs about some unbiased history lessons........
You sound as dogmatic as the most convinced Bolsheviks, Maoists, Khmer Rouges, Republicans, Tories and Fascists I ever had the pleasure to discuss with ......
@36 Think
Sep 11th, 2013 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And whilst I look for some “unbiased” history that shows me how:
Pinochet was actually the CIA's man (contrary to declassified documents); and
that Allende never supported a totalitarian solution; and
that the UP never called for armed struggle ....
....whilst I look for that ... I will wait for Mr ExpatBsAs to point me to all those Marxist regime success stories with happy endings.
Might be some wait.....
..... sock puppet hand cramp perhaps.....
El Condor
Elqui Province
Post-Marxist
Post-Pinochet
Democratic
Free
Chile
@Condorito
Sep 11th, 2013 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said I'd had my say, but indulge me with one final post. Its pretty clear from your rants that you are a 'Pinochetist'. We could have a battle of ideology and sources, but I think that would be useless with someone as ignorant of his own country's history as you evidently are. I want to remain anonymous so won't go into details about my experiences in Latin America (the power of the internet) but I'll give you a few points to ponder.
Firstly, to continually invoke the fates of other communist countries is a red herring, the Latin American experience is different from the european one, and I'd say Cuba is a unique case.
Direct US involvement in Chile went back to the civil war in 1891. Its favoured candidate lost then, but the US was determined to displace the Britsh as the dominant foreign power in the economy. You should read about the Monroe doctrine and subsequent US policies, it will enlighten you.
Regarding Allende, the US had been spending a lot of money and resources to prevent Allende's election since the 1950's, funding election campaigns and propaganda on behalf of rival candidates. I quoted you the Church Commission report of 1975, I hope you have time to read it. It is absolutely vital reading for anyone hoping to understand what occurred in Chile around this time.
As for events immediately prior to the coup, you surely know about the CIA's organisation of compliant army generals, the assassination of General Schneider, a constitutionalist who was opposed to the coup, the funding by ITT of El Mercurio the right wing newspaper opposed to Allende, the organisation of a transport strike to undermine the economy, etc. I could go on, but I'll run out of words.
Yes, history can be biased, but you seem to have limited your sources too strictly. Read some of the transcripts between Nixon and Kissenger!
This is my last post here, time to go to the beach with the grandkids, soon to return to BsAS.
Condorito, learn your history.
(37) Condorito
Sep 12th, 2013 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't wait for long, hermanito....
And teach your four children right....
They are, after all, the bearers of our common future...
(38) ExpatBsAs
?!? Taking the grandkids to the beach in Argentina in October ?!?
You Sir.................. are most certainly an Englishman ;-)
I'm a bit late to this discussion but allow me to put in my two cents worth.
Sep 12th, 2013 - 06:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure the Yanks were behind the coup, that's a fact, but what you guys may not know is that this illegal act was opposed by the commander of the army General Rene Schneider. The Yanks paid $50,000 to two treacherous generals to have him murdered. The Yanks thought that after his assassination the coup would be a certainty. WRONG again, the replacement was General Carlos Prats another patriotic constitutionalist who believed that his job was to preserve the constitution not to decide who was the president.
Sadly the third time was unlucky for Allende. After Prats resigned he added to his long list of bad decisions and promoted Pinochet who in a little over two weeks deposed Allende in a somewhat bloody coup.
Today I would say that many people perhaps the majority agree that Pinochet did more good than bad. I personally think that the coup was unnecessary as there was NO F***ing way that Allende an inept, bumbling, economic retard, was going to win in 1976, particularly as he had destroyed the country both in economic and social terms. Most of you don't know that his regime systematically set out to perpetrate economic terrorism on his fellow Chileans. He was NO GOOD that's for sure, but I'm positive that even though his red cohorts would have tried to rig the '76 poll he still would have lost badly and I think that because he was a rainbows and unicorns type of commie (a true idealist) He would've accepted the result and handed over power to the winner.
@Think
Sep 12th, 2013 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0My last post was to be my last, as I've got no time to waste with Condorito and his ilk. In fact I'm in Sydney Australia at the moment visiting family, and the last couple of weeks have been beautiful, late 20's and sunny!
@The Chilean perspective
I mentioned the assassination of Schneider in my previous post. I didn't know these details but they look very plausible. Perhaps with the benefit of hindsight and from a distance, forgetting the terror that was very real at the time, and with the relative prosperity enjoyed by Chileans these days, a majority may agree that Pinochet did more good than bad. That doesn't excuse the methods that he used though.
You make two excellent points. I agree with you that Allende was pretty certain to lose in the next election; the sabotaging of the economy by the CIA coupled with Allende's inept handling of the economy would have seen to that. Also Allende was an idealist, and would not have overturned the result. Hence, no need for the coup.
@38 Expat
Sep 12th, 2013 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Too bad that you have gone, I was hoping you might hang around long enough to at least learn that you should read post before replying to them.
For all your rambling @38 all you have said is that the US was meddling in Chile. This is common knowledge and it is what I said @22. What you are neglecting is that there were other foreign forces meddling too, but you seem to have limited your sources too strictly.
@39 Think
I don't teach them on such politically and morally polemic issues, but don't worry, they'll get both sides of the story from maternal great grandmother (the frying pan) and paternal grandmother (the fire).
I hope your new friend doesn't get cramp in that cold Patagonian Atlantic water. An anti-US-Thatcherite-Marxist-businessman is a colorful addition to the MP forum.
@The Chilean perspective
Never too late.
Its late here but I just had to respond to Condortio's comment. This is the first time I've been described as a Marxist in my life, that is so funny my kids have just laughed their heads off! You got the bit about being a Thatcherite businessman right, but not the rest. To criticise US foreign policy of that era and be considered anti-US really shows you to be ignorant and stupid. I have many American friends all strongly patriotic as only they can be and they all appreciate the mistakes made in that era. But they are intelligent people who can rationalise events, something beyond your capacity from your posts.
Sep 12th, 2013 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0And to accuse someone for not reading posts and then hoping that I don't get cramp in the cold Patagonia water, when I've already explained that I'm in Sydney (the northern beaches to be precise) is hilarious. My god, just read back what you've written.
I said I wouldn't be responding to any more of your ridiculous posts but this was just too tempting. Ignorant of your own country's history or even any elements of modern politics or history. I won't respond any more unless you write something as funny again. But thanks for the giving us all a good laugh. You are a buffoon sir!
@Expat
Sep 12th, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
“...that is so funny my kids have just laughed their heads off! ... hilarious.”
Of course Condorito is here to entertain...have you never been to Chile?
A bit of an entertainer yourself though...
“ so I'll leave you to your delusions.” @29
“I said I'd had my say, but indulge me with one final post” @38
“My last post was to be my last” @41
“Its late here but I just had to respond to Condortio's comment.” @44
... a true entertainer just can't resist one more curtain call can you.
At least we can agree that mutual amusement has been achieved. As for the sanctity of democracy we may never agree. I agree that democracy is the best system we have, but I also know that it can be corrupted from within (and/or from without) and when that happens crises ensue and bad things can happen. My own family was split (physically) by events in the 70s and it is precisely because I can “rationalise events” that I coincide with many here who believe, on balance, that the coup was positive for Chile.
(44) Condorito
Sep 12th, 2013 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“It is precisely because I can “rationalise events” that I coincide with many here who believe, on balance, that the coup was positive for Chile.”
I say...:
it is precisely that type of ethically devoided “Economic Rationalism” that, on balance, could make many in here coincide about Maoism having being positive for China.....
If your “rescue plan” for democracy involves 3000 dead 16 years of tyranny and torture. You really ought to have another think.
Sep 14th, 2013 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Communism still seems attractive in latin america due to military tryanny still seen through rose tinted glassess mass poverty and and a very unequal society.
But thats just a guess.
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