MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Irreconcilable positions forecast US government shutdown could turn really serious
The partial shutdown of the US government showed no signs of ending quickly, as lawmakers stiffened their positions and sought to shift blame to the other side. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI cannot understand why you would actively harm your own economy in this way, because of a piece of legislation you don't agree with, but as the phrase goes, “only in America”.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's call TEA BAGGERS , I mean Tea Party. The most destructive element ever introduced into American politics. The are determined to change the United States of America to the United States of America, Inc.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is a complete abuse of the system by the few hard-right Republicans more intent on willy-waving than serving their country. They don't like Obamacare, well tough-titty, like it of not Obama was re-elected by a majority that support the health care bill. The American people should be marching to the Hill to embarrass the shit out of them.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why has the government been instituted at all? Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice without constraint. —Alexander Hamilton, 1787
Oh, God!
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just don’t get it why do the republicans need to follow the lines directed by the Tea Party?? Why can’t the Tea Party become another REAL party and end bipartisanship in America, present itself to elections and win seats and impose their policies legitimately if most of the Americans agree with them ….??
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0But of course they dont, and they will not do so because the latter seems precisely to be the problem...
@5 Quite and the Tea Party cost the Republicans the last election. Why can't they see that?
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Time for 'the people' to remind the politicians that they are there
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0TO SERVE THE PEOPLE.
What they are doing is seriously damaging the people of the USA,
and heaping upon this great 'country' the contempt of the world.
@6 My only guess is that they don’t want to see their constituencies abandoning them…But it’s the time that the Republican Party does some soul searching never the less in a fast changing voting tendency in America due to demographic changes. So they are bound to loose them
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0As the Tea Party is already sure of what it wants it is better to leave them in their own destiny, at least that’s what I would do if I were them… Eventually they would come back.
Cap, “teabagger” is akin to Libtard which I must assume you are by that crass and uneducated post.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine, This is the way the system was designed to work. If the Senate and Prez refuse to negotiate with 1/3 of the gov't it is their fault not the fault of the congress.
Why should the Congress do what the Prez and Senate want without a getting something they want in return?
The voting on these CR extensions have been pretty consistent at over 210+ that is not a fringe.
The Tea Party didn't cost the Repubs the election they took over the House, the Repubs will probably take over the Senate next election. Romney was not a good candidate he didn't bring out the base. That is what cost the Repubs the election.
Frankly I think the Dems fear is that most of the USA won't even notice the Fed Gov't is closed. We can do with a lot less gov't, a lot less.
@9 Apparently Romney was the most center candidate the republicans had in 2012, as far as I remember they needed someone capable of bringing the undecided voters and the hard liners together and they failed ….
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.....“Elaine, This is the way the system was designed to work.”
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.....Treasury department employee Peter Gamba told the BBC he was worried by the turn of events.
“For whatever reason I cannot fathom, you're asking me to again give up my pay and give up service to the American public,” he said.
“It's a nightmare for me financially, it causes me a lot of anxiety and stress and I don't sleep well at night.”
.....great system
.....can't wait for the up and coming debt ceiling fiasco
....it would be quite funny if it didn't effect the rest of the world....but it does!
@9 I don't agree with you on this issue. This is not what the system was designed to do at all. The budget was agreed by both sides with considerable gains by the Republicans - they got a lot of what they wanted in return. Then to attach an amendment to try to force the government to undermine the health care policy and hold the elected government to ransom is absolutely not what the system was designed for.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Democrats are not fearing this shutdown as it is doing a lot more harm to the Republicans. It is the Republicans running around trying to pass bills to get parts of the government up and running again (the parts that will annoy their constituents). It is true Speaker John Boehner (he has a great office btw with a number of very amusing artefacts on display) has complained the Democrats will not negotiate on these but the elected President has said he will veto them.
If the Republicans don't want a health care policy they should get elected and dispose of it. Why not make that their primary policy? I bet they won't get elected on the back of it.
I have no dog in this fight but anyone on the outside can see this is not checks and balances it is a pissing contest and indicative of how distorted the process of government has become. It no longer serves the people or, indeed, common sense.
I feel bad for the Federal Employees caught in the crossfire but if they want pay they can put in for vacation time and not furlough. They're just being greedy. It's not like checks aren't going out.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Dems squeal when the Automatic increase in spending is less than they hoped for, they need to get a grip you can't devastate a program by increasing it 2% instead of 8%.
10. In my opinion Romney should have brought up Benghazi and all the other lawless acts and embarrassments of the Obama administration and gone for the jugular in the debates. He didn't so he lost. It looked like he didn't have a backbone or wanted the job bad enough.
The Republicans have dealt a high stakes hand at the eleventh hour that they are not going to win. Whatever their intentions it has backfired and they will come out of it less popular. (Except with the very small number on the hard-right). People don't vote for the extremes in modern democracies. If you want to get elected you have to be close to the centre.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Republicans are likely to split over this and that will weaken them.
Elaine, The budget was never signed into law. The USA has been using CR's since Obama was elected because HE is incapable of coming to an agreement over just about anything.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Senate was forced to pass a budget but they refused to go into reconciliation and that is why the Congress is obligated to use CRs.
We'll have to see where this all comes out. I think the Congress is boxing in the Prez and Senate pretty well. They are going to look petulant and foolish if they keep refusing to meet with Congress to work this out.
I think it would help if Congress announces that there will be no back pay during furlough and that they won't take pay during this time either.
I think they are smarter than you are giving them credit for.
13)Im not awere of how the primaries work in the US, but the fact of the matter is that the Republicans had many from to choose from; Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul, Rick Perry, etc and even formal Tea Party endorsed candidates like Bachmann and yet the GOP went with Romney for a reason and that was because he was the only guy with chances of getting the undecided votes…
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 016. And the national party was proven wrong. There is a misconception that undecideds swung the race. The Republican base didn't turn out. Less Republicans voted for Romney than McCain. The base was un-excited and stayed home. If Romney had the same turn out as McCain he would have won.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its very simple and all explained here:-
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://gawker.com/kimmel-asks-americans-to-choose-obamacare-or-the-affor-1433866673
Their propensity to dumb down everything a large part of the American public have no idea how healthcare should be run. They prefer to pay Insurance companys massive marketing costs, overpay doctors, and deny the poor and even the ordinary working guy good healthcare.
They don't seem to fully realise that the Republican party is run by big business lobbyists. They hate the Affordable Care act because it smacks of equal treatment for all healthwise.
The US might be technically advanced but in many ways it is totally backward. My many American friends all confirm this, looking at Canada and Europe with envy in many areas of daily life.
For more viewing on these subjects go and see the films 'Captain America World Police' and 'Idiocracy'
While we are at it the gun control laws are imbercilic.
18. No American is looking to Canada or EU with envy. WTF are you going on about?
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We use Canada's health system not as something to admire and emulate but something to stay very far away from. Rich Canadians are always coming to the USA for treatment you never see Americans going there.
Sheesh you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about
Go back to watching B moves and getting all your info on the USA.
For those interested in American politics, Nate Silvers Blog, is an accurate predictor of likely election outcomes.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com
He has accurately predicted the outcome of all recent elections. Let's hope a sensible Republican emerges in place of the raving nutjobs and loonies that appeared last time. It matters to the whole world.
17) But you are forgetting a very important detail, which is the root of this argument and that is that in 2009 the Tea Party didn’t exist!! So there was no divide amongst the republicans voting for McCain… How can we know for sure under your assumption that more center voters wouldn’t have turned to Obama last year if an extreme candidate was offered by the Republicans instead of Romney???
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@15 Of course it wasn't signed into law. It was about to be, having haggled for an eternity and given considerable ground to the Republicans, but at the eleventh hour a few hard-right Republicans decided to hold the country hostage to force their minority view on the majority.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This stunt is deeply unpopular with the majority of voters and the Republicans are being damaged by it. People are sick of non-government as a result of continued sabotage (on both sides) of this nature and the Republicans are acting as an example of this. Whatever one's political leaning, this is unpopular and more than embarrassing for the USA.
As you say, we shall see how it develops but at the moment the Republicans are in a PR disaster.
21. Your mistake is thinking there is a division in the Republican Party. The Tea Party is part of the Republican party.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would suggest the sub-group to watch next are the libertarians. It seems like a lot of young voters are edging over to them which is part of the Repub party too.
The elections are far away, the honor of electing the first black president is over. We have no idea what candidates will run so the point is moot.
I don't like debating coulda woulda shouldas.
@21 The Tea Party was energized by Obamacare, yes, but they spun up DURING the start of Obamacare's forging in congress and were incensed as to how it went through. I am somewhat but not orgasmically supportive of the act but very non-plussed as to how it was passed through congress. But what little “understanding” I had for the TPers evaporated very quickly in a matter of ... days maybe when they tried to expand outward into the rest of the hard-right agenda. But this entire situation is ridiculous. Obamacare was found to be constitutional by conservative supreme court jurists (as a tax “chuckle chuckle” needs to suck it up and... live by what they wrought). It make me pine for the contract for america days. Not that anyone was serious about that either.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well? #19 I must have misheard all those pals in Maine, Boston, NYC, Missouri, Kansas City, Louisiana and California? Or that family that just moved back to Lakesville Ms, and says how much they miss the NHS. Sheesh, Rgland isn't the only place full of brainwashed people!
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 010% of Americans approve of Congress - thats a lot of support isn't it?
Enjoy paying your copayments every time you get seriously ill. Carry on paying for stupid TV adverts, lobbyists, drug adverts, and all the claptrap that adds nothing to healthcare. Carry on denying the poor and sick healthcare. Let's hope you never get sick enough that the insurance company refuses to cover you, and you can't work and end up in the gutter.
Looks like the nutters are still in charge.... Even Cuba has a better healthcare system. And don't mention infant mortality...
The last poll on this issue I saw a few hours ago had 70% of the public opposing this shutdown. This number exceeds the numbers who are/were in favour of Obama's health care initiative. I think that is a significant statistic and the implications for the so-called Tea Party members are pretty clear.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These particular Republicans are amateurs. They either don't know how to negotiate or are uninterested in doing so. Their constituency does not come close to representing a majority of their country's citizens no matter how much noise they can make, and they are either blind or indifferent to the consequences. This makes them unworthy of the power they seem to revel in wielding.
These Republican Space Rangers should be locked in a room with Newt Gingrich and not allowed to leave until they understand the implications of what happened in '95 & '96.
@9 & 13 Yankeeboy
The general consensus after the last election was that the Latino vote was ultimately the deciding factor. You might recall how unpopular Gingrich's softer policy on immigration was amongst the base. The demographics of your nation have shifted, and as David Brooks has repeatedly noted, the GOP has failed to keep up.
Mitt Romney was indeed aggressive during his second debate and it brought dividends for him and made the final vote much closer, but it was too late by then and in any case he was never going to win over enough of the Latino vote to get him over the line. Ironic when you consider where his Grandparents came from.
@23 The honour of voting the first black President was over in the first term and Obama was voted in for a second term.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Republicans are, of course, made up of a spectrum of ideas from extreme to the centre. But this might be the real division of the party, right now and over this action. Shutting down the government is deeply unpopular with the voting public across the political parties and the longer it goes on the more unpopular the Republicans will be.
As I have said, I have no dog in this fight but the Democrats are winning the PR battle. They were prepared and the Republicans walked right into it.
23)I'm not debating coulda woulda shouldas, I'm asking you a straightforward question...
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And on the first paragraph: Well it’s pretty much as you wish really, but I think you are fighting a losing war ( Casper has just noted the reasons why) if you go out your lengths to sustain the Tea Party…This doesn’t mean that the Reps have to start talking in Spanish in their TV ads or on YT…. If the Republicans don’t do some serious soul searching and agree on a center orientated proposal which all so called Republicans can identify with you are headed for disaster…
25. If memory serves, the only healthcare discussion I have had in the last year was with my Scottish friend who had to bring his dad over to the US to get a hip replacement since his wait time was 18 mos.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW thanks for explaining how MY healthcare works and for your good wishes.
Dick
27. Voters have very short memories and it will take a protracted shutdown for anyone's lives to be touched by this. I very much doubt it will last that long. My FB friends aren't even posing about it
26/28. I'm not worried about the Latino vote, in my experience Latinos didn't come here to get free stuff. If they wanted poor quality free stuff they would have stayed in whatever sh*thole country they came from. My guess is the blacks will stay home next cycle and everything will be back to where it was for the last 50 yrs, a small but right leaning voting population.
@29 I am pretty sure your FB friends all think like you, right? I have friends across the parties. ( I have no vested interest in backing one team) The Republicans are working from a losing two elections so they don't need to look even more destructive. A much better strategy would have been to let the health care go ahead - as the majority of the public wish - watch the initial years when all new systems mess up and cashed in on that advantage.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of voters, Republicans included, live pay cheque to pay cheque. They have endured a major recession and this will further undermine people's confidence. I doubt people will forget in a hurry.
I am really surprised someone had to fly all the way to the USA for a routine operation like a hip replacement. An elderly friend of mine had it done on the NHS just two months after needing one and could have had it done the following week if she paid. We have private hospitals here too. The legal right of a patient it to have the operation within 18 weeks of referral. Flying either side of an operation is never a good idea. This surely could not have been a recent occurrence?
“If memory serves, the only healthcare discussion I have had in the last year was with my Scottish friend who had to bring his dad over to the US to get a hip replacement since his wait time was 18 mos.”
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.......Now why don't I believe you.......
your Scottish friends dad would have had to pay......
lets see what people in the US say......
My insurance company has been billed almost $90,000 so far. That includes pre-op tests, surgery and some PT in the first 3 weeks. Since I'm now in water therapy, not sure what the total cost will be.
In L.A. with the best surgeon -$11,000, anesthesiologist -$3,500, P.A.-$2,000 @ Ceders Sinai, 3 day stay -$30,000, 9 weeks P.T.@ 2 days a week -$2,250 comes to roughly $50,000.
.....and in the UK.....
How long will I have to wait for a hip replacement operation?
The Government says no one should wait more than six months for any operation. Although orthopaedic surgeons are still the ones with the longest lists, the situation has vastly improved in the past three years.
The latest figures show that of the 197,492 people waiting for an orthopaedic operation (not all of these will be hips), just under half will have waited up to two months and only 10,797 will have waited five months or more.
...and in the UK
What about private treatment?
Going privately will eliminate the wait, but costs are high. You can expect to pay between £7,500 and £11,000 for one new hip, depending on the type of joint; resurfacing costs slightly more, usually up to £12,000.
It was within the last year and I think he recuperated here. The funny thing is my Scottish friend lives Canada but works mainly in USA and ended up bringing him here. Go figure.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No most of my friends are, choke, liberal! It is somewhat to do with my current city, where I grew up and where I went to University are more conservative and not 1 post from the outlanders has hit my FB about the shutdown. It doesn't play a part in most people's lives. Unless you had an appt scheduled at SSN or something like that I am not sure anyone would notice.
I am pretty sure Fed Gov't employees can put in for vacation if they want to get a paycheck. Its not like they've stopped sending out checks. They just want to moan about it while drinking the day away in some nice restaurant in DC.
@32 I shall be back in DC in two weeks, let's hope it is resolved by then.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Voice, Those bills are like paying rack rate at a hotel. Even though the ins company was billed that amount that is not what the hospital received.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no idea why my friend brought his Dad to The USA but I know for sure it had nothing to do with the cost of the operation. I don't think these people would ever consider what something like that cost.
Elaine, right now more than 2/3 of the Federal Workforce is still working so you probably won't even notice a difference.
Actually Yankee.....I use to be a Republican until the bible bitchers took hold of the party. But now it is held captive to the teabaggers. Nooooo......I am what conservatives call leftist liberals and what liberals call tax evading conservatives. SO you assume wrong yankee.....I consider myself a moderate independent.....so you are entitled to believe and think what you will. I served my years in the military for you to have that right.......did you? Doubtful.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Crass....the post was crass.......yet you hurdle nothing but insults rather that analysis at Argentines, but praise anyone that thinks in your vein. You should look in the mirror before you hurl meaningless words and make assinine assumptions in almost every post you write.
It's not just Brits and Argentines tire of of your “educated” rants but your attitude. Your facade of all these connections are at farcical levels. If you are an America, you are representative of the ones Ross Perot should keep in the basements like his crazy aunt.
AND no.....the federal employees CANNOT draw any pay.....vacation or otherwise.
So now that the Republicans are holding the USA hostage to overturn Obamacare, rather than winning a majority and doing it the democratic way, what stops them from doing the same to overturn Title 18 and 19....other exisiting laws?
Like the Missouri people are asking......“who the fuck do these tea baggers represent?”
Tea baggers will split from the republicans and ultimately go the way of the Whigs and the Rainbow party......fortunately for the USA and the world.
@29
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...fee stuff...”
I guess the difference in our respective perspectives is roughly the difference between Brooks and O'Reilly. I agree - if that is what you are suggesting - that U.S. Latino's are hard working, aspirational people who are inclined to be conservative, however, apart from the Cuban Americans living in Florida who will always vote GOP, the current immigration policies of the current Republicans will deter Latino's from voting from them.
Again, it's a matter of perspective, but I wouldn't describe 53 million people - 17% of your entire population - as being small. Of course if Marco Rubio makes a run in '16 you can probably count on the Latino vote - while the Tea Party sympathisers grow ever more radical.
Yankee, thats the whole point isn't it? Anywhere in the world you can jump the queue if you have enough money. As for your Sottish friend, he is pretty dumb, the wait isn't that long. Anyway, even with insurance you still have to wait as you well know! And, for most people there is a hefty copayment every time you use it. The US system can't be called healthcare because there is no actal care. The dumb republicans are all either wealthy or just complete dickheads who cannot look objectively at their own sorry predicament. It was the same dumbos who exacted 'rednecks revenge' on Iraq assisted by our stupid poodle BLiar . The GOP is a repository for evil corporations, the selfish wealthy and dumb rednecks these days. Wake up and smell the coffee.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“who... do these people represent?” Er, they represent their district. The Congress is MORE Democratic than Senate or Prez whether that is a good thing or not I am not sure.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FYI I never lie, my phone has rung w/ the caller ID of POTUS before, has yours?
Although I have not served I was up for West Point but chickened out but my family has been in gov't and military service since BEFORE the Revolutionary war. But thanks for your service.
Whether you are tired of my posts or not I don't care it is really easy to skip over them.
BTW you can always go to Argentina to live with your wife's family if this country isn't liberal enough for you just don't vote while you live there.
34
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I have no idea why my friend brought his Dad to The USA but I know for sure it had nothing to do with the cost of the operation. I don't think these people would ever consider what something like that cost.”
Well I have no idea either, as people in the UK that don't have to worry about cost....tend to have private health care like BUPA etc ...therefore they wouldn't even be bothered with the NHS or ever be told they would have to wait 18 months for a hip replacement.
Your scenario doesn't make any sense.....
Maybe hip holidays are all the rage or a hip break.....;o)
I have no idea I know nothing about NHS and never will. Maybe there was some new type of procedure or doohickey he wanted that wasn't available in UK yet.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no idea and care even less.
37. Co-payments are usually $10 for your doc $20 for a specialist and $50 for hospital. Not too hefty in my book.
36. Latinos like whites, asians, blacks, gays or any other group you want to single out don't vote homogeneously. We only need to pick off the right thinking ones.
Yankee you are a typical extremist that cannot handle critism. yankee your stories amount to works of fictions. NYC......my birth place......but Boston I live. It's a hop skip and a jump to met over a coffee and discuss my crass and uneducated POV's. While I no longer live there......my blood family does and I frequent there.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for West Point.....care to hear my never accomplished storied? I think not.
I almost won Mass Millions
I almost climbed Mt Everest
I almost dated a movie star
I almost.......
SCOTUS....noooo, wanna see the White House on my cellphone? I can type meaningless shit as well as you can?
Yes yes.....you multi great aunt bedded Miles Standist......you've been here since the Norse arrived. Take a pill it will help with your lack of confidence and deal you your need to inflate you Id.
If you really are an American, rather than doing the Republican thing and thanking Vets for there service, replace there missing body parts lost from falsified wars, better yet, don't send them off to fight for oil, convince them not to support dictators in the name of business and the best........bring back the draft and maybe conservatives will have to send their kids to fight.
Yes......I can talk shit too. But remember, when you don't like what you hear from a fellow American, telling them they can leave America is so UNAMERICAN. I bleed for my constitution......and you almost went to West Point.
“It's insane here... government partially shut down by power plays. Of course, Congress and staff still get paid while veterans and others won't. Honestly, they'll hijack government rather than carry out what people voted for. And of course, Congress gets lifelong healthcare coverage even if they only serve one term -- but they'll bend over backwards to prevent the rest of the populace from having the same care. I can't even imagine the thought process.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hope life is better in your neck of the woods”
Yankee, thats the email I got from my friend in Maine the other night. Nice people up there, tough too, its a poor state. The Tea Party nutters have even decent Republicans by the nuts. From our perspective they look like swivel eyed loons.
If you think the viciousness and invective on the Mercopress is bad you should try reading the 'Comment' sections in the USA media (etc) websites.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The vitriol and bile poured over the name and reputation of Obama just has to be seen to be believed.
This is - as Elaine puts it so graphically - a pissing contest without checks and balances - or indeed a referee.
But it is much, much more than that ... it is the hateful attempted destruction of the USA's first non-white president.
There are powerful forces at work in the USA, and most of them are distinctly distasteful to ordinary folks, both at home and abroad.
And for those of you that think this is a grass-roots movement against something called 'Socialism' - well, baby, you just don't know what socialism is.
@43 Does socialism even exist in the USA?
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@44 ElaineB
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Depends on who you ask - several academic institutions have been known to be prefaced by the phrase 'Peoples Republic of ...”, Berkeley being the most likely to fall into this category. All in jest of course...
41. Believe what you want, I don't lie and I have nothing to prove to anyone here.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 042. Polls show the majority of the country doesn't want Obamacare.
43. Ah so we are back to being racist because we don't support bad policy. Okay. Gotcha. Makes sense.
44. It is trying to creep in but we are holding it at bay.
Geoff you are correct and I seldom if I have ever agreed with you. There is a large section in the USA that cannot deal with the fact that we have a Black president and will do anything to destroy him.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine, you've been to the USA then you know that “socialism” is a profanity here and means different things to different people. Most Americans have been spoon feed to believe that socialism is when the government provides healthcare, education and retirement, as opposed to the reality that in socialism, government owns all enterprise and distributes all economic goods.
Republicans hate the concept of Obamacare because it will make the poor folk(to real republicans), those earning under 100,000 less in need of republicans. Republicans already are losing the electorate at increasing rates and they only have so many tricks up their sleeves for a rich man's party to attract the needed poorman's vote. Think of how tough it must be for republicans needing to keep the wealthy people happy to get campaign donations, at the same time making the poorer population that put them in office happy?
Again, they are holding the country hostage by not changing what they do not like democratically. This concept will come back to haunt them when and if ever again they hold majorities or get another Republican in the White House ever again.
February 12, 2013
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Resilient Conservative Majority
By Bruce Walker
Gallup had a poll recentlypublished a poll which shows that at the end of 2012, self-identified conservatives still outnumbered liberals in every state of the nation except for two -- Rhode Island has fewer conservatives (27.8%) than liberals (28.3% liberal), as does Massachusetts (28.3% to 30.5%). Gallup curiously does not play up the ideological gap. Instead, the February 1, 2013 article title given by Gallup was “Alabama, North Dakota, Wyoming Most Conservative States. Americans slightly less conservative, slightly more liberal[.]”
This apparent interest in hiding the conservative advantage in America is pervasive; the Gallup Polls invariably have titles to news stories which would cause no one to get curious. The Gallup Poll data twelve months earlier showed the same dramatic conservative advantage. So did the February 2011 Gallup Poll, entitled “Mississppi rates as Most Conservative US State.” The August 2010 Gallup Poll tells us that “Wyoming, Mississippi, Utah rank as Most Conservative States.” The February 2010 Gallup Poll reads, “Ideology: Three Deep South States Most Conservative.” Gallup in August 2009 featured the headline “Political Ideology: 'Conservative' Label Prevails in South[.]”
A closer look at Gallup's polling results shows something startling. In February 2012, Gallup reported that conservatives outnumbered liberals in every state but Massachusetts. In February 2011, Gallup polling results showed that conservatives outnumbered liberals in every single state. The August 2010 results showed that conservatives outnumber liberals in every state but Rhode Island. In August 2009, Gallup polls showed that conservatives outnumbered liberals in every single state. The February 2009 poll showed conservatives outnumbering liberals in every state of the union.
Yankee, but... the President thought it up and both houses passed it. Isn't that the way your 'democracy' works? Is it perhaps true that big business, the insurance companies and drug companies are manipulating Congress to try and kill the Affordable Care Act? Democracy isn't run by opinion polls, its run by the legislature.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt some of those dumbasses in the above video are redneck republicans who have no idea of the difference between Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act?
Isn't it true that many Republicans hate the notion of a Black President? Let's face it WASPs are a dying breed in America.
@47 Surely the one thing worse than a black president would be a woman president?
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, I know. I was kidding, there is no socialism in the true sense of the word and it is highly unlikely to ever become a popular notion there. Partly because of the lingering 'reds under the bed' paranoia but mostly because it does not fit with the American Dream. The country is founded on immigrants arriving for a better life if they work hard and provide for themselves, then anything is possible. Right?
The thing is, the American Dream was just an advertising campaign to develop the country. And now that a lot of people have made a good life for themselves they want to pull up the ladder to stop anyone else enjoying the chances they were given.
I don't make light of the problems that unrestricted immigration causes (I am from the UK) or that of a society developing a fair system that takes care of the weaker and less fortunate members of society (again, I am from the UK). But any civilised society should at least try. That is not socialism.
What Elaine says about the UK is true. But presently the government is trimming things back because we got to soft here. It takes time to get universal benefits right. We don't lay about worrying about whether a health problem will result in us falling into poverty, or how to pay the premiums. Its all collected through our taxes.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All socialism isn't evil, corrupted communism was, it doesn't work. Americans need to drop the dogma and look at universal healthcare, it works great.
The USA has evolved, pretty much from the beginnings of 'modern times', believing that they deserved a 'servant class', and they identified this as being non-white.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I used in #43 the words 'non-white' because I now know the difference between 'black and white'. My partner is not white and, in the USA, is black: in fact she is mixed of at least two white cultures and two non-white cultures: honey, and the more beautiful in my eyes because of it.
Believe me, she is nobody's servant! ... and neither is Obama - except in the sense that he has elected to be the servant of his peoples. Unfortunately, there are a few classes of US society that see the words 'colour' and 'servant' as still synonymous. History often takes many, many generations to eradicate deeply-rooted paradigms.
The colour issue aside, US society at large is now so rooted in the behaviours of conflict - perhaps due to a total immersion in a confrontational legal system - that the two-party political system has forgotten that democracy is the key word, not confrontation. Making democracy happen should be the watch-word; not making it not happen.
I ask you, is it so bad that the poorer members of society should have a measure of support, even one where health-care for them makes new fortunes for the legal practices of the USA?
#29
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know where the figure of 18 months for a hip replacement came from. The max. waiting time under the NHS is 18 weeks.
Why did he have to go to the USA ? Presumably he had to pay for this operation. He could have had this done at home in many private clinics almost immediately if he had private insurance or could pay for it himself.
If you do not wish to use the NHS in Britain, then you can insure privately with a firm such as BUPA, if you can afford the premiums.
The medical treatment will be no better, but waiting times for routine surgery and peripherals are quicker. However, if you are seriously ill, then you want to go NHS. The size of your wallet is not discussed nor any insurance exclusions which may preclude your treatment. It is purely based on clinical need.
49, Both houses did pass it but only as a reconciliation not as a bill and only with Democrat votes. Throwing big luscious, dare I say, immoral goodies to the last few holdouts. Right now about 70% of the population wants the bill scrapped.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Geoff, What you are describing sounds foriegn to me and its not the USA I have lived in my whole life I don't even know where to begin to start pulling this apart. The place you are describing sounds more like a SA nation not the USA.
You UK people read too much left leaning newspapers. Repubs are not against immigration, illegal immigration yes, but immigration as a concept, no. They also believe in a safety net but not one that will bind you for your whole life and the life of your children. Try reading Cato.org as a start. Maybe you'll learn a thing or two.
The Cato institute is the Neocons. Its a pseudo fascist organisation. I don't want to learn about ideologies we quashed in 1945. Like the tea party its a regression to a primitive backwardness. Dinosaurs! Ideocracy lives!
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 055. Maybe you need to read it again it is exactly opposite as what you are describing.
Oct 02nd, 2013 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Founded in 1977, Cato owes its name to Cato’s Letters, a series of essays published in 18th- century England that presented a vision of society free from excessive government power. Those essays inspired the architects of the American Revolution. And the simple, timeless principles of that revolution — individual liberty, limited government, and free markets – turn out to be even more powerful in today’s world of global markets and unprecedented access to information than Jefferson or Madison could have imagined. Social and economic freedom is not just the best policy for a free people, it is the indispensable framework for the future.
I think you may need to do a bit more research before you post idiotic nonsense.
In the HoR the lunitics are now in charge of the asylum.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0However noble Catos founding principles were it was these people that started the stupid wars against ragheads and plunged the middle east onto the present bloodbath. Idiocracy!
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ha Ha, the Cato fools! Individual liberty! You should be reading Bob Monks http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/business/mutfund/robert-ag-monks-crusading-against-corporate-excess.html?_r=0
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 06:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0....not the claptrap from that bunch of nutters at Cato
How foolish is it to conflate big government with universal healthcare? For Europeans the cost is collected painlessly through everybody's and every corporations taxes. Even those who live on the street are covered.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 07:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0As Gump observed “stupid is as stupid does”
The US is presently being run by the Tea Party - lol!
That last sentence is not true. However, they are holding the US hostage to their demands.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Serves the Yanks right... How do you expect a government to function properly when it has a minority in the lower house, it's crazy. They are on a road to nowhere and are quickly becoming a basket case. Enjoy the time off government employees.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0#62 for corrective purposes, the Republicans are not a minority in the House, the are the ruling party there.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0In general this was a good discussion. Let's see what happens next.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0#62.......so tell me, when Pinochet took over Chile, did it “serve the Chileans right” for allowing that to happen? Why did they not stop it?
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We do it by elections here. If Mississippi wants right wing extremists to represent them in the HoR, they have that right, just as liberals in California have that right. They use to work to compromise and negotiate, but far extremists on both sides now determine that compromise and negotiation is a weakness. However, I feel and suspect that the people have reached the point that they will not have short term memories at the mid terms that the teaballers hope they have. Even Republicans are doubting them.
Besides, I am really surprised that there are not revelers and dancers posting at the dysfunction and closing of most of the US government, like when 9/11 happened......most of the world cheered.
Pelosi and Reid and the teabaggers need to “Move on” for the good of the USA. Yankee is a bit of an extremist but he is correct in one thing. The USA was not created to be like the rest of the world and was created for less intrusive government, personal liberties and free and open trade. I don;t see that ever changing so saying we should be doing this and that is not going to make it happen. We will always be different from Europe.....good or bad.
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Oct 03rd, 2013 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have some very strange ideas Pops.....I think you need to get out and about a bit more....travel a bit......
FYI the Western World was appalled by 9/11 ...I personally don't know anyone that cheered....or have ever heard of anyone that cheered....
I also can't see that Yanks are much different from Europeans....a little more paranoid and a bit parochial but that's about it...I mix with them a lot...
Strange because they are not like your's? I would not expect you to see a difference.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and this is the end of it all...
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 067
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, strange because they are not like most Americans I know....whilst you were in the Military were you not stationed in Germany.....or UK etc?
Have you spent anytime in Europe at all?
I know lots that were and they are less paranoid than you.... they don't think the whole world is against them...
You appear to have a very limited view of the rest of the world....almost like you have experienced very little of it.
....for instance
“I am really surprised that there are not revelers and dancers posting at the dysfunction and closing of most of the US government”
You ought to think a little more why that is...
I am paranoid? Now you are a psychologist? Or Psychiatrist?
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually my military time endured jungles, probably almost due south of my current location.
You never seem to amaze me with your assumptions guzz.
“.....like when 9/11 happened......most of the world cheered.”
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If that is not paranoid I don't know what is.....
So my assumptions were correct.....no Europe.....no understanding....
I thought so.....
Have you ever been out of the American Continent for any length of time?
Many times ....meet me in Pennsylvania and I will let you eyeball my current passport. Your approval of me is of concern to me?
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you insist on thinking you are superior and believe you are clever in your assumptions. You made an accusation, please, now prove it.
I just found out this was happening. I would like to say:
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
As I've said, USA a has-been country.
Why don't you prove it.....simple.....open a Flicker account.....it's free....
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0take a pic of these European locations in your passport....upload to flicker and provide the link......
.....basically it's because the majority of Yanks have never left the States.....
and know feck all about how the rest of the world perceives Yankeeland.....
.....and you are proving it with your comments...
now let me guess what you will say.....
......I don't feel the need to prove anything.....or words to that effect!
....You are posting a lot again.....the wife away again is she?
....when she's back you won't be allowed.......Pops...;-)
Why don't you met me in Pennsylvania? I need to prove something to an absolute stranger......for what reason? Yet you can't met me in Pennsylvania and prove to me you own property in ...(lol) Trout Run?
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Show me your passport and I will show you mine?
Where did my wife go?
Not curious about the jungles I trampled?
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Oct 03rd, 2013 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually curious Pops.... yes, but it sounds like sneaky South American US covert operation stuff....that's the only jungle.....South!
I don't have a problem meeting you in PA when I'm there....but I'm not yet....I should have been about now.. but other commitments, more important.
When I can go, I will let you know.....
Great, I can hardly wait, I will bring my old passports too.....btw......SA is a bit too South.
Oct 03rd, 2013 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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