MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Ahead of Scotland referendum and 2015 election Cameron reshuffles cabinet
British Prime Minister David Cameron has kicked off a coalition reshuffle, with Scottish Secretary Michael Moore among the casualties. The Liberal Democrat's Cabinet post is being taken by the party's chief whip Alistair Carmichael, just a year before the crucial referendum on independence north of the border. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesNorth of the border? What border?
Oct 08th, 2013 - 01:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0I find it funny the English say 33% is “really bad”. Not at all. That's 33% that want to break away no matter what. Of the 55% or whatever it is that are right now in the “no”, be assured that probably half of those would WANT independence, but are just a bit scared of it. Half of 55% is 27% which means well more than half of Scotland would break away. If things were so great, you would think 80% of people at least would be opposed.
So much for the long awaited disintegration of Argentina by the Brits (been waiting for 150 years now). It seems someone else is at risk of disintegrating!
if if if ...
Oct 08th, 2013 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0quite a string of circumstance.
keep dreaming
...it's all you have
:-)
Actually, I have to admit that I’m pretty disgusted actually by these Scotts … I’m following the Catalans case in Spain, those folk are continually ripped off by Madrid, they form kilometric human chains and they go to the streets in millions to call for a referendum and independence. Madrid ignores them and continually robs them. They really have endured years of unfairness and strived to see their culture survive. They really do want to work hard and be free.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Scotts on the other hand get free university, subsidies, etc and even London has given them the chance of a referendum on independence it has come all legall and through the ballot box… And yet the whole debate is focused on about how will it benefit or make things worse for the Scottish economy and what the Scottish society can actually get out of it, they think they can retain the pound, be in the Eurozone at the same time, expel the nuclear facilities of Scotland but be covered by NATO and a long list of I want this I want that.
I just don’t get it. Peoples around the world have bled themselves to death to be free and continue to do so... What seems to me is that it’s not really about expressing their culture and country at all like all. They could not care less, it’s about money and if it’s better for them or not… As far as I know the south of the border is very happy to see them go, and I don’t blame them… The problem is that Westminster doesn’t.
Rodrigo hates Scotts.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 04:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let the Scots go their own way.
Its the Scottish peoples decision Narcos, not yours STFU!
Oct 08th, 2013 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4
Oct 08th, 2013 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0No one is stopping them you imbecile, its is totally their choice. What most 'foreign' people on here ignore is the fact that Scotland is virtually autonomous right now, they currently have the best of both worlds and that fact is not lost on two thirds of their electorate. Free university places, free prescriptions, the rest of the UK do not have it as good as them.
Also resentment is building in England, most are sick of listening to that smarmy git Alex Salmond and want him off their TV screens. Many many English are very content with Scotland leaving the UK, this has raised the question why the rest of the UK were not allowed to vote, if they were, the one third of Scots that want to leave, would get their wish immediately.
So when you say “let the Scots go their own way”, you may wish to educate yourself on the topic.
Question : If Scotland separates from Britten, how much of the British national debt does Scotland get? Currently everyone is focused on the Scottish part of the North See oil and gas resources, which are considerable and make Scotland energy independent. Maybe if everyone looked at the debt the number of Scottish people wanting to break away would drop.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3:
Oct 08th, 2013 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Aye? Well you disgust me.
And learn to spell the word Scots correctly.
Self determination to Scotland, Wales, NI, Gibraltar, Falklands, Bermuda, St Helena.....
Oct 08th, 2013 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who could argue with that? Fine my me.
The Malvinista's seem to think Scotland going its own way will strengthen their cause. Fools.
#3 Actually, you will find that the majority of Scots find Alex Salmond a nationalistic prick, myself included. Scotland has been a major Labour supporters country, things were going sour with labour, and the SNP were voted in. That was nothing more than a wake up call to Labour. Nothing more.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Scotland will vote, and they will vote No! of this i am certain. I know of zero Scottish people within the circle of family, friends, collegues, school friends that are voting Yes. Salmond has been appealing to the younger generation, and trying to get the voting age reduced. The younger generations are, lets face it, still wet behind the ears. I have stated on here before, that the people that are voting for Yes! are nothing more than nationalists, who have never worked or lived outside of Scotland. Kind of like the Malvinists on here.
People South of the border are fed up with the nationalistic crap that is filtering it's was from North of the border, so yes, they are becoming a little pissed off with the whole scenario, but in no way are they wanting Scotland to leave the Union.
The Salmond propaganda machine is hard at work, but the Scots are not so easily fooled.
Scotland will stay within the Union, that i can promise you.
“Scotland will stay within the Union”
Oct 08th, 2013 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And big bad Vestige says....true.
Although in some ways Id like to see separation happen it won't. But then again whats also indeed reflective of the truth is 'TheTruthpaTroll's ' quote, “Of the 55% or whatever it is that are right now in the “no”, be assured that probably half of those would WANT independence, but are just a bit scared of it.”
Changing the status quo is always a risk in some manner and involves change and uncertainty, aspects not easily sold to voters.
And that same mechanism (of grudging acceptance) is at work also in N.Ireland, the steel has been cast there too, remolding it involves, again, risk and discomfort, at 'this' present time too much.
So for those two regions its mostly negative aspects that are maintaining unity. Unionists better hope nothing positive (such as riches) comes to these regions. Whats also going to stop independence for Scotland is a lack of self belief and the one thing humans have been known to fear more than death itself - public embarrassment. In parts of Scotland and large parts of N.Ireland you will find absolute zero loyalty (and these are by no means small numbers ) to the unwanted union, waving the country's flag, singing the anthem or standing for the queen will get you a free brick. Consider the high percentages of both regions that would 'want' (as opposed to vote) nothing to do with Britain and you'll see the United Kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland (born circa 1922) is not so united.
(and no, they don't plan on leaving what they see as their land)
@11
Oct 08th, 2013 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bit insulting to say people voting for the status quo lack self belief. Unless you're working some sort of agenda.
Again, its all about self determination: The Shetlands, Orkneys, Cornwall, Catalunya, Basque, Falklands, Gibraltar...Let them look at the facts, think about the consequences and take the plunge if they so wish.
Scotland wants independence! I think the English work is not so good.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Economy should be more integrated. There should be more marriages between the two peoples. There should be no arrogance or fear.
When the union is made of political interests, it fails.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTiiWPll61k
13
Oct 08th, 2013 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Scotland wants independence! I think the English work is not so good. ”
.....I think your English work....is not so good!
....missing classes?
@14
Oct 08th, 2013 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never been in an English class. Never!
hahaha
Bit insulting to say people voting for the status quo lack self belief. Unless you're working some sort of agenda.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well I do believe they lack self confidence/belief, in great numbers. The change from 300 years of rule (direct or indirect) from London is a great change. The cultural home of Scots' own head of state is, lets be honest, England. England has been mommy for a long time now.
I have an agenda?..ha...Ironic. I guess I've been discredited now.
14 - give the guy (13) a chance ffs.
@10 Oh I know Scotland will stay in the Union… The ultimate question should be if the people feel more Scottish or British…
Oct 08th, 2013 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But the question here that has turned out to be is if they will rather be privileged Britons in comparison to the rest of the UK peoples or selfish Scots (but in reality -apart from what Salmond says- end up being will end up being poor Europeans)
Its not that I hate the Scots but you must see the ugly truth of it... Compare that to the Catalans that give to Spain far more than they get in return and yet Madrid still helds them hostage
17
Oct 08th, 2013 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The ultimate question should be if the people feel more Scottish or British…”
That is a no brainer....English, Scots, Welsh etc are all their respective nationalities first and British second..
Why are you trying to compare Catalans with Scots?
Is Catalonia a Sovereign Country?
Scotland is!
This is a Union in question not Independence to form another country...they are already a country.
They already have a national identity....there is no confusing Scottish with English....unless you are a Yank or something!
In reality it is only an economic union and not to be compared with the situation in Spain!
18) You are confusing the concept of “Nation” with the concept of “Country”. The Kingdom of Spain and the UK of GB are actually countries made of different nations like is the case of the Basques, Catalans, or like the Welsh, Scots, etc
Oct 08th, 2013 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ultimately both Scotland and Catalonia are administrative divisions, and nothing more.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sp.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sp.html
The difference is that the Catalans give far more than they get and the Scots get far more than they give, there you go...
TWIMC
Oct 08th, 2013 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Few places in the world have I met a People with such a fierce Clannish feeling of belonging to a Nation and a Country than in the Scottish Highlands...
Anybody saying otherwise is a bloody............................. Lowlander ;-)
Ahhhhh.......... dreaming of fishing the bonnie Naver waters free from the English yoke in 2015.........
El Think.
Southwestern Chubut, Patagonia Argentina.
19
Oct 08th, 2013 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The United Kingdom (UK) In simple terms, it's the union of the individual countries of England, Scotland and Wales, collectively called Great Britain (Europe's largest island) and the northeastern corner of Ireland - the constitutionally distinct region of Northern Ireland.
Regarding England, Scotland and Wales, though all are widely considered individual countries, they are all still a part of the United Kingdom (UK), a recognized European country by the United Nations, United States, and others, and therefore included within the United Kingdom on our country list below.
http://www.worldatlas.com/nations.htm#.UlQvOuBAQUW
I don't see anywhere that says Catalonia is a country in the World Atlas...
There are nothing more than administrative divisions, thats why the Scots have seats in Westminster for...I think that the CIA factbook speaks better for what the US recognizes as a country and it only talks about the UK of GB&NI... Other than that I dont see where this is going. The Basque administrative division itself is called “PAIS VASCO” literally meaning Basque Country, but it is nothing more than a administrative division of the Kingdom of Spain...
Oct 08th, 2013 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course what the Scots really have is a propaganda machine worldwide that was originated during the 90s with this Braveheart movie. But it’s nothing more than jingoistic rubbish filled with historical inaccuracies and lies. The Catalans of course don’t have the backing of Hollywood. So that makes a big difference ;-)
(22) CabezaDura
Oct 08th, 2013 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Geeeeeeeee.......
An Argie Sassenach!!!
Eramos pocos y parió l'abuela.....
22
Oct 08th, 2013 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Haha what the US recognises.....correct me if I'm wrong but Scotland was a country nearly a thousand years before the US existed.....so I wouldn't bother taking the CIA Factbook as fact...
Lets go Wiki and put in....The Basque Country (/ˈbæsk ˈkʌntri/, /ˈbɑːsk ˈkʌntri/; Basque: Euskadi [eus̺kadi]; Spanish: País Vasco [paˈiz ˈβasko]; French: Pays Basque) is an autonomous community of northern Spain.
......now Scotland
Scotland (Scottish Gaelic: Alba (Scottish Gaelic: [ˈal̪ˠapə] ( listen))) is a country that is part of the United Kingdom
....now Catalonia
Catalonia (English /kætəˈloʊniə/, /kætəˈloʊnjə/; Catalan: Catalunya [kətəˈɫuɲə] or [kataˈluɲa]; Spanish: Cataluña [kataˈluɲa]) is an autonomous community of Spain,
I “Think” there appears to be a difference between a political union and an autonomous community.....
24) Yes, indeed the CIA fact book has far more legitimacy than Wikipedia where anyone can fix in whatever he wants people to believe referring to with any junk link.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But even Catalonia and the Basque Country were already countries even before Scotland existed... It doesn’t really matter; the US is a country nowadays and it recognizes only the Kingdom of Spain and the UK of GBNI, the rest is classified as administrative divisions.
The Catalans want to work hard and really be free; they don’t want money in return for being part of the Kingdom of Spain. In fact they give more than they get already. They are not sitting in the fence saying I want this I want that. So yes you are right the Catalans and the Scots are not the same.
To minimize the UK to an economical union would mean to say they wouldn’t be such thing as a British citizen, and I’m not aware of the existence of Scottish, Welsh, English, or Northern Irish passports, but only British ones, so I’m sorry but it’s the way things really are.
25
Oct 08th, 2013 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“To minimize the UK to an economical union would mean to say they wouldn’t be such thing as a British citizen”
Possibly there isn't as it now says....
European Union United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland....Passport
.....a European passport......Oh no what happened to their identity...
Forget wiki go onto Google maps and type in Basque Country.....now Catalonia...
Now the UK...
What's that I don't see.....Basque Country
What's that I don't see.....Catalonia
What's that I do see.....Scotland
It's on every map in the world.......and do you know why that is?
Because it's an administrative division......or it's a Country.....
19 - “and the Scots get far more than they give”.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May I ask what gave you this idea. I have heard the opposite from the SNP.
26)Exactly… European British Passports… Just like Spanish European Passports, German European Passports,etc
Oct 08th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LIAR …………GOOGLE MAPS
Basque country
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=es-419&authuser=0&q=pais+vasco&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0xd4fd1dee354ac6f:0x308230a14ae3bd3c,Pa%C3%ADs+Vasco,+Espa%C3%B1a&ei=z09UUpioBIzU9ASw04GICQ&ved=0CH4QtgM
Catalonia
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=es-419&authuser=0&q=pais+vasco&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0xd4fd1dee354ac6f:0x308230a14ae3bd3c,Pa%C3%ADs+Vasco,+Espa%C3%B1a&ei=z09UUpioBIzU9ASw04GICQ&ved=0CH4QtgM
27)What do you expect the SNP to say??
28
Oct 08th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear .....now follow your link again and show me on the map where it says Catalonia or Basque country.....ON THE MAP....
NOT as a search area!
Now do the same for Scotland....Oooo I see it!!!.....Typed on the Map
Why not answer Vestige's question.....making stuff up are we?
Here lies the useless and informative comments of our islands, told by the Argies, who it seems, know them better than we do,
Oct 08th, 2013 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If they go, when they go , how they go , is not argentines problem,
But then diversion and cohesion has always been better then dealing with ones own problems,
Rather than others.
Just a point..
.
30
Oct 08th, 2013 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey Briton....you being British and all......
Are you getting a vote on it?
....it appears it's non of your business...
Just a point
31 A_Voice
Oct 08th, 2013 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct old chap,
Salmon is desperate,
Apparently even Scottish born scotts living in the rest of the UK , and even Scots serving in the military,, are not allowed to vote,
Only apparently those alive and kicking and living in Scotland,
But an interesting note here,
[cant prove it]
But it seems some foreigners , those living in Scotland and resident there, Can vote,
Very odd indeed…lol
.
29)Oh jeez do you even realize to what level of retardedness you are reducing this whole argument… I zoom in and Scotland appears in the UK, I zoom out and it disappears (?)
Oct 08th, 2013 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even Palestine is closer to be recognized as a free state than Scotland is!
This is the whole reason why after a hypothetical scenario of independence Scotland will have to re apply to enter the EU. Get over it
31)Briton then by your standards you shouldn’t even be talking about affairs of Argentina and LATAM or Mercosur, yet you are. Nobody is saying you shouldn’t. Now I have no dogs in this fight, but I’m stating a point of view specially when im stating the difference between Scotland and Catalonia...And I will keep on doing so regardless of what you say… Do you understand, idiot?
33
Oct 08th, 2013 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You could have just said.... you are right...;-))
Basque or Catalonia are not on the Friggin map
Because they are not Friggin countries
BUT SCOTLAND...... IS
Give it up......It is almost as bad as Think calling you a New World Monkey
.....and you taking it as a compliment....Jeez!
Yes they are on the map.... I never said they were countries. The problem is Scotland is neither, and you don't want to admit it,
Oct 08th, 2013 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No le busque pelos al huevo...
35
Oct 08th, 2013 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For goodness sake you have already provided the link that shows clearly that they are not on the Google Map.....and that Scotland is.....what is wrong with you?
Do you think just because you say it...then it must be so?
36) Not because I say so.... anybody can look into the link and see they are there... tough shit uh??
Oct 08th, 2013 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 037
Oct 08th, 2013 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you are stating on the Google map it is typed Catalonia as it is for Scotland?
As you look at that area of Spain.....
LIAR
hahahaha, LOL you are an imbecile
Oct 08th, 2013 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 039
Oct 08th, 2013 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thought not.....
......monkey....:-)))
That's why I left on the other thread....I was embarrassed for you....taking it as a compliment..
Oh dear.....
What's the problem, if they vote for independence, they will leave the union.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If they vote against it, they will stay in the union.
Not difficult is it?
Their decision, let's wait for the result.
41) Read up muppet. I hate trolls coming around and try to appease the tread and simplify things when people are debating
Oct 08th, 2013 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#3
Oct 08th, 2013 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Scotts on the other hand get free university, subsidies, etc
You obviously believe the Daily Mail and the bulk of the English press on this matter.
Scotland gets a block grant from the UK exchequer. The Scottish parliament then decide on how they will spend this money.
If they decide to spend it on university education and free NHS prescriptions then that is THEIR decision. It means that they will have to cut back on other areas of expenditure...eg policing infrastructure projects, grants to local authorities etc.
No extra funds will be granted by the UK parliament to cover any shortfall. This is what devolution of powers means.
The Westminster parliament could make university education free in England if they so wished. I am sure that the £60 billion proposed for a high speed rail link between London/Birmingham/Manchester could be used for a subsidy to university education.
It is an education reading all the expert comments on this thread from various“experts” who know virtually “hee-haw” about Scotland and its people. For those that don't know the vernacular I have used a Glaswegian expression for f*** all -used in more polite society.
“Reports of my death were an exaggeration...”
Oct 08th, 2013 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0~ Mark Twain
CabezaDura - “and the Scots get far more than they give”.
Oct 08th, 2013 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What do you base this on ?
@45 TIT
Oct 09th, 2013 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hey, Toby Vestige, “Scotland Expert”, check this out:
@43Clyde15
“It is an education reading all the expert comments on this thread from various“experts” who know virtually “hee-haw” about Scotland and its people. ”
He's talking about YOU, pisskopf!
43)You are actually asking me to take sides where I have no dogs in the fight. I don’t know anything about Scotland and I don’t claim to do so, therefore I don’t understand where your rant comes from. All that I have said is of public domain and well known. But then again I have seen British and Scottish commentating here utter idiotic stuff of Argentina and LATAM and I don’t feel like I have the authority to dismiss their opinions only based on the fact that I live here and they don’t.
Oct 09th, 2013 - 04:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes the British media says to the world they are having to pay per household a lot of the good services Scotland gets, though figures differ and it’s not very clear as to what standards are used most agree that Scotland’s gets a good deal or at least over the balance because some measure with the oil revenues and some dont. Whatever Holyrood does with the money it gets is not of Westminster saying but the problem seems to be the unfair share of the national revenues due to the fact that, yes Scotland overall benefited from the Barnett Formula. But not the most benefited. The unfair burden is only bound to get worse as the oil fields get more expensive to drill in the North Sea, that’s what everybody agrees on
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2711051/Taxpayers-8000-Barnett-Formula-bill-for-services-in-Scotland.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2711051/Taxpayers-8000-Barnett-Formula-bill-for-services-in-Scotland.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2711051/Taxpayers-8000-Barnett-Formula-bill-for-services-in-Scotland.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2711051/Taxpayers-8000-Barnett-Formula-bill-for-services-in-Scotland.html
@7 sj_ken
Oct 09th, 2013 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It depends on who you ask.
For instance, if you ask the Scottish nationalists, they will say that the will not take on any of the national debt, and that all the oil and gas in the North Sea belongs to them (conveniently forgetting that many of the oil fields are off the coast of the North of England).
However, in reality, Scotland should have to shoulder 1/6 of the national debt (since they have 1/6 of the total UK population) and negotiate their share of the North Sea gas and oil, since the treaty of North Sea was with the UK and not Scotland - so if Scotland ceded from the UK it also cedes from the treaty.
So at best they could do is negotiate a percentage of the revenue, or the WHOLE treaty could be renogtiated which would mean that every signatory would attempt to grab more for themselves (Norway, Denmark, Germany, UK etc...), which could leave the Scottish with a lot less than think they are entitled to.
The Scottish nationalists are dreamers. I have asked them numerous times to explain how they would fund an independent Scotland, given the fact that they can't rely totally on the North Sea (due to the reasons I have stated above), and they never answered the question.
Just like they won't answer when asked what they would do if they became independent, but the Orkney Isles, Shetland Isles, the Isle of Skye and a large portion of the West of Scotland that have stated they would REMAIN with the UK and not with an indpendent Scotland. Again they ignore the question.
They also have fairy tale economic figures, that don't match reality. Their portion of the NHS alone would swallow most of the oil revenue.
43) Cyde, Vestige et.al
Oct 09th, 2013 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think this video of The Economist seems the most balanced, informative and objective source so far…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1xTpbs0sKA
Again if you take your time to read all of this thread, and most of the comments of videos like the one I just posted you will see that the whole debate is basically about the economics of the independence vs. the convenience of remaining in a Union with England, Wales and N. Ireland. And that was the whole point I was trying to make earlier. As a political animal I’m telling you how I see this so far in Argentine eyes from afar I’m not interested in giving you a lesson on economics.
The Scottish nationalist ended up playing to the unionist from the very start when they went in for this kind of debate. If I was a nationalist Scot leader like Salmond I would of avoided the economical debate and not sell out to my constituency the fancy idea of a rosy futere and turning Scotland into a futuristic hybrid between Scandinavian country and an Arab Gulf- State. If you truly wished freedom you have to be prepared to be poorer and overcome reality. The following political mistake the SNP makes is that it now talks about retaining the Pound, the Monarchy, the NATO shield and membership, etc. He is effectively standing on the fence demanding stuff. Westminster and Downing Street were intelligent enough to let Salmond make a fool of himself and kept very silent over the whole issue for some time, but only addressing the negative economical and political aspects of a independent Scotland as the debate progressed. But the underlining fact is that if the Scots are not nationalistic enough as they are greedy and this is why you are going to lose the referendum next year.
(49) CabezaDura
Oct 09th, 2013 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Calling the mouthpiece of the London banksters (The Economist) “The most balanced, informative and objective source on the Scottish referendum” ........ are we???
Do yourself a favour.....
Try to consult some less biased sources as...:
http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/forced-choice-national-identity#line
Or...
http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/forced-choice-national-identity#line
Or...
http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/forced-choice-national-identity#line
Don't thank me....... I'm here to help (and dream about fishing the Naver's bonnie waters again in 2015..... this time free of the English yoke)
Think: Calling the mouthpiece of the London banksters (The Economist) “The most balanced, informative and objective source on the SCOTTISH REFERENDUM ........ are we???
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD: No I was talking about the economical aspect of the whole thing. And Yes “The Economist” is the best, more balanced and informative source so far, they even reference the Scottish Gov in one of the graphs.
You are looking ever sadder and its embarrassing for me to keep on talking to you. I’m interested in talking to real Scots or Brits for a change, if any of them can address what I said in #49 would be great. I'm interested in their opinions on the matter, not yours.
Why not just wait and see,
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0more interesting things are going on..
52) Because for a political animal like myself there is a thrill of saying “I told you so”....
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0this will cheer us all up, i hope..
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GUARDIA CIVIL BOARDS FISHING BOAT OFF CATALAN BAY
Another day – another incident – another protest – another ignoring laughing Spanish government.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31130
Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers (in Action)
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31130
Royal Navy 2013
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31130
Britain is currently building one of the worlds best Aircraft carriers actually, The Queen Elizabeth class. Not to mention we have the most technologically advanced destroyers in the world and some of the best subs and nuclear subs
[if only we had a government with a real backbone, ]
Nuclear submarine documentary narrated by Andy Sweet
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31130
One day = those who take the piss out of us,
Will be severely pissed on and deservedly Drowned..
Reporting from the fleet.
Fiery Dragon as destroyer’s Lynx tests its decoy flares in stunning fashion
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31130
54) Boring ..............
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is Scotland subsidised
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-5R5lYv9yY
56)...............yes
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 055
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0dont be so boring..lol
58) It would only be more interesting if you were actually going to use any of that stuff in the near future. I will give you that.
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 057
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So her figures or rather Aberdeen University figures are wrong?
Aberdeen being a Scottish University and Stephanie Flanders being English using Scottish data....
60) Did you actually see the video, did you remember what I said this morning to #43??
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact she is basically going into what The Economist says...
Why do I always end up discussing things with idiots and trolls??
59 CabezaDura
Oct 09th, 2013 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Use any of that stuff in the near future.
Of course you have a point,
But one never knows when one may well need them,
For its better to have it, and not use it,
Than not have it, and need it,
Or course if we could see the future, perhaps we would not need any of it,
As for Scotland,
This debate will linger on till next year,
UKIP Nigel Farage - Scottish independence impossible if they remain in the EU….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn3HS59Zzzw
I did read your link, an interesting piece..
Something tells me, it will get hotter than an Indian summer, as we get closer and closer..
Just a thought.
.
61
Oct 09th, 2013 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously don't understand English....the North East of England, Wales and Northern Ireland is subsidised more....
So Scotland receives less subsidies than other parts of the UK.....
Who's the idiot the guy that takes being called a monkey as a compliment...;-)))
What was the other one.....
Oh yes ...Think called you a Bostero....
I had to look it up to see what it meant....
1. bostero
(Adj) a supporter of the argentinean football team called Boca Juniors.
They usually live in slums, are thieves and make up the lowest parts of Argentinean society.
They start running like hell as soon as they sense a River Plate supporter near them.
Today I came across a bloody bostero... thanks to God I wasn't touched by him.
So....Mr Think call you a Bostero and you answer.....
77) At last we may just agree on something Think....
.......am I missing something or are you a Friggin Idiot?
So you steal 15000 times more from the Scots than what you hand them in freebees - Thankless bunch the Scots hey. Go Scotland! - take back your oilfields.And Europe is waiting in anticipation to welcome you. You will be far better off than being ruled by the English. Read this and you will know why. The World is in English made mess.
Oct 09th, 2013 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.monbiot.com/2005/12/27/how-britain-denies-its-holocausts/
62) I respect Nigel Farage...Intelligent and well spoken man indeed. It’s always interesting and good to see an up and front politician that speaks his mind always ultimately all democracies need people like him, and yet they are very rear, so its not surprising many folk in Europe and the world like him. He challenged political correctness and the mainstream media bullying and got away with it. That is very difficult to do especially in a country like Britain. You are lucky to have him.
Oct 10th, 2013 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 064
Oct 10th, 2013 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Once again some brainwashed at reading, what they call gospel, blames the English
The English are to blame for everything this planet has had to endure,
And yet the rest of the world lives in total innocent,
Nice to know then, that without the nasty English, the rest of the world would live in peace and total paradise,
Personally
Living in the real world, I know a very different story ??
.
“The British government is PUSHING for a “no” vote in Scotland's referendum on whether to split from the rest of the United Kingdom...”
Oct 10th, 2013 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0....any intellectually honest person can see the consistency and hypocrisy with this definition?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/self-determination
1. the right of a nation or people to determine its own form of government without influence from outside
2. Determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion; free will.
3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the right of a nation or people to determine its own form of government without influence from outside
Glad you think the falklands should get all 3..lol
Oct 10th, 2013 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. the right of a nation or people to determine its own form of government without influence from outside
Oct 11th, 2013 - 01:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who is the outside influence? Last time I checked, the people of Scotland were still represented by government of the United Kingdom.
FAIL!
2. Determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion; free will.
Free will is best exercised when all the facts are present. The Scottish government has taken it upon themselves to push for a YES vote without an equal push for a NO vote. The UK government is just doing the same thing though in opposite. Both governments are representatives and rule the Scottish people.
FAIL!
3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the right of a nation or people to determine its own form of government without influence from outside
Seems to me that the UK Government has, as yet, not dictated the response nor the result of the vote.
FAIL!
So far that is three FAILS.... don't wait so far into the future before posting your next failure please.
So far the people in places such as Falkland Islands, Gibraltar and Catalonia are waiting for the same 3 commitments by the Spanish and Argentine governments.
# 69
Oct 11th, 2013 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0i asked for an intellectually honest person....based in your response you clearly dont belong to that group . Dont waste my/your time.
FAIL!
Oct 11th, 2013 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Consistent at least.
There are two arguments for Scottish Independence.
Oct 11th, 2013 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0The first is the nationalistic, “pure-blood”, anti-English non-sense bullshit that the likes of A-hole spew. It is bullshine, a large majority of the British population will have Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish and English blood and recognise themselves as British. Trying to work out whether you are “Scottish, English or Welsh” is more an opinion than an actual “genetic” make-up.
The second is a much stronger and much more sensible debate, but its the one not generally being had.
Scotland (and Wales) continually and for a generation have elected left wing predominantly Labour MPs to Westminster.
England predominantly (with the exception of the Blair governments) have elected right wing Conservative MPs to Westminster.
Scotland doesnt want an “English” Tory Government (Cameron/osborne)and England doesn't want and Scottish Labour Government (Brown/Darling).
Seperation would resolve this issue.
A better solution would be full devolution within the Union where the vast majority of Scottish issues are resolved in Holyrood, and Scottish Westminster MP are prohibited from voting on English or rest of Union issues in Westminster. Ignoring the West Lothian question as currently is ridiculous.
However, it is for the Scots to decide next year. independence is better than the status quo, full devolution (not being offered would be better still).
The status quo where 5 million are over-represented in Westminster voting on non-Scottish issues is not democratic at all.
Stupid monkey talking crap.....let me remind you, Westminster is not an English Parliament it is a UK Parliament!
Oct 11th, 2013 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Scottish MP's are not voting on English issues they are voting on UK issues!! Your comment is typical of the stupid nationalistic crap you accuse Scotland of.....
........IDIOT!!.....
Just like there is no Scottish oil.....for the last 300 years there has been a Union therefore it's UK oil!
Poor A-Hole he really is as thick as shit.
Oct 11th, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some powers are divolved from the UK Parliament to Scotland. These are decided on for the people of Scotland in Holyrood.
When these same topics are voted on in Westminster, they no longer impact Scotland. Therefore they ARE NOT UK issues they are UK minus Scotland issues.
The same would be true of Wales and Northern Ireland for a different set devolved powers.
As the West Lothian question was put forward by Tam Dalyell it is hardly Nationalist nor irrelevant you stupid thick turd!
How thick you are A-hole and yet how happy you are to advertise it.
WTF is ....divolved??......You idiot....
Oct 11th, 2013 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0....your last comment stupid as it is.....is just as irrelevant...when Scottish MP's vote in the UK Parliament they are voting on UK issues.....a clue is in the title UK.
The reason for this is........doh!....because they are a part of the UK and the devolved Scottish Parliament has limited powers relevant only to Scotland....
YOU STUPID MONKEY......
You can't let go can you.....one stupid comment after another....
I see you here......Stupid Monkey.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHdJVzYBBOU
If you are still not getting it.....a simple question, do you think the Scottish MP's in the UK parliament are voting on UK issues or not!
Some of those issues may be applicable to Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Europe....International....do you know why that is......that's right.. because they need to be represented in the UK Parliament on issues pertaining to the UK...
BTW.....;-))))))
out of interest,
Oct 11th, 2013 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0did you know, that it was the SNP that asked for the subs to be sent to scotland in the first place,
now they dont want them......
funny old world aint it..
76
Oct 11th, 2013 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I didn't, but it has missed most peoples attention that it was the SNP that has called for this referendum and not the Scottish people.
Who asked them to put everyone in an awkward position of having to choose between the devil you know and the devil you don't....
This is a nationalist party that only gained power because Labour were so crap...Salmond does not care what the consequences are for the people.
If he did he would be opting for Devo Plus.....
Under devo plus, Holyrood would gain new responsibility for welfare benefits except pensions, funding all its own spending through full control of income and corporation tax.
It would also receive a “geographical” share of oil revenues - tax receipts from oil and gas in Scottish territorial waters....
A-hole
Oct 11th, 2013 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Scottish MPs in Westminster are voting on UK issues when those issues are NOT decided in Scotland by the Scottish Parliament in Holyrood.
When those issues are decided by the Scottish Government in Holyrood then Scottish MPs in Westminster are voting on issues which have nothing to do with Scotland.
I know you are as thick as shit A-hole but surely even someone as cretinous and pea-brained as you can see the difference. Thought not dumbass.
I have absolutely no issue with Scottish MPs in Westminster voting on issues which affect the whole UK, which as more and more is devolved, becomes fewer and fewer issues.
I feel sorry that you have a turd for a brain A-Hole...and worse you are so keen to show everyone.
Google “west Lothian question” if you are still confused, and get your mummy to read it to you....
Fuckwhataretard
78
Oct 11th, 2013 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“When those issues are decided by the Scottish Government in Holyrood then Scottish MPs in Westminster are voting on issues which have nothing to do with Scotland. ”
You just don't get it do you.....Stupid Monkey
Holyrood only has power to make laws on a range of issues. These are known as devolved matters and they include:
• health • education • justice • police and fire services • housing • local government • the environment • sport and the arts • social work • agriculture • many aspects of transport, including roads and buses.
The UK Parliament retained the power to make laws for Scotland on certain issues. These issues, which generally have a UK-wide or international impact, are known as reserved matters. They include:
• benefits and social security • immigration • defence • foreign policy
• employment • broadcasting • trade and industry • nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas and electricity • consumer rights • data protection • the Constitution.
So do you now understand that the MSP's in Scotland need the representation of 59 MP's out 650 in the UK Parliament to be able to vote on the above matters that obviously concern Scotland......because these matters cannot be voted on by Holyrood.....
BTW There is no over representation 59 out of the UK 650..... a bit less than 10%
compared to the population of Scotland.....a bit less than 10% of the population of the UK.....so you were also wrong @72
I know you are never going to be able to understand this as your stupid monkey brain is not capable.....
I should have just said.....have a banana....have two.....:-))))))
Haha did you like the video....that's you isn't it?
Next time I'm short of water I'm going to have to catch you and make you lead me to it.....
Dickhead A-hole
Oct 12th, 2013 - 05:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0nowhere did I say that there shouldn't be MPs from Scottish constituencies in Westminster...fuck me you are thick as shit.
What I said was that these MPs shouldn't be voting on the issues that you list (fuckwit) that have been devolved to Holyrood..
You are a massive dumbcunt who clearly can't read.
HAHAHAHA...........what a numpty......
Oct 12th, 2013 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0”What I said was that these MPs shouldn't be voting on the issues that you list (fuckwit) that have been devolved to Holyrood..“
........Shouldn't???........They DON”T.....You IDIOT...they vote on the UK issues.
You obviously thought they did......Anyone can see that.......;-))))))
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.........wait a minute...oh yes..hahahahahahha..ha!
...no there's more...hahahahahaha!
......there is no way that you can save face on this...
...you have dug yourself a hole....
... and proved without a shadow of a doubt..
..that you are....
.....the missing link
BTW......what is divolved again......you never answered.....
.....that good ole......Monkey...Magic.....you never fail to amuse
Oh dear oh dear A-hole you are as usual completely and totally wrong.
Oct 12th, 2013 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Scottish MPs in Westminster still vote on all issues in Westminster INCLUDING on all the subjects where the power has devolved to Holyrood. So taking your list health, education, police, justice etc when these topics are voted on in Westminster and now affect only England and Wales...the Scottish MPs still vote.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23252903
It's funny that you are so abusive, yet so ignorant and so wrong. These are not UK issues anymore they are England and Wales issues.
I have saved face because I am 100% right and you are a turd.
The reason why they still vote on the devolved issues in Westminster is simple. Take 41 Labour MPs out of the equation and the Tories have an overall majority on DEVOLVED ISSUES. We couldn't have that now could we.
You are a retarded dumbass who is thickasshit.
Hahahahahah aha you are wrong and I'm right dickwad....and the sad thing is you agree with the principle that devolved issues shouldn't be voted on by Scottish MPs in Westminster now it affects England and Wales only but you are too much of a thickcunt to realise they still did...
Mwhahahahahahah
Oh dear you still don't get it......
Oct 12th, 2013 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no English Parliament.....only a UK Parliament...
So EVERYTHING voted in Westminster is a UK Issue.....
A devolved matter for Scotland is not voted on in Westminster...
Westminster MP's both Scottish and English don't vote on devolved matters..
That's why they are called devolved.......
.....Still think you are right?.......Idiot...
You are a Nationalist.....what you're trying to say is
.....English Law for English MP's
.....English Issues for English MP's
.....England for the English.....
You only want a Union on your terms.....
There is no British only the English trying to rule everyone else.
If you don't want Scottish MP's voting on matters that effect England.....break the Union and have your own Parliament
You are no better than Scottish Nationalists.....
Just a .........STUPID GIBBERING MONKEY
Poor a-hole
Oct 12th, 2013 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what you are saying is that for example:
Student tuition fees are decided by the MSPs in Holyrood for Scottish University but for English Universities it is decided by all MPs in Westmister...including the Scottish ones.
PMSL and you think that is democracy...you complete tool.
I want a Union on equal terms...whatever is devolved to the regional assemblies by the will and the vote of the people in referenda, should be equally devolved from the MPs in Westminster from those areas...
That's is equal.
You are a complete tool A-hole in that you think that English only issues (by way that for the regions those issues have been devolved) are still UK issues. Quite clearly to anyone with a brain they are not!
Everything in Westminster is a UK issue. Even those devolved to Scotland Wales and NI..you stupidstupidturd
Come on guys,
Oct 12th, 2013 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Im sure it’s very complicated at best,
And silly at worst,
I am given to understand that they operate similar to this,
And I may well be wrong
Local Scottish issues are decided in Scotland,
Local welsh issues are decided in Wales,
Local northern Irish issues are decided in Northern Ireland
English issues are decided by ALL MPs in Westminster,
And national issues are decided by ALL MPs in Westminster.
[England has no local government as such]
[ less you include the local councils ]
just what i thought...
Briton
Oct 12th, 2013 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed, it is as simple as you state, and therefore as ridiculous.
What A-hole cant understand (because he is dumber than a mule) is that the current situation, as you describe, is ludicrous and undemocratic.
How on earth can the power to represent the people of Scotland on certain issues have been devolved from Westminster to Holyrood, yet the very people who used to have that power (the Scottish MPs in Westminster) still exercise over England.
It is ludicrous, and exists purely because the Labour and Liberal partys lose power if they don't. If CFK behaved like this we'd say it was appalling.
It's quite simple and ironically the SNP get it. When power on what ever issue has been devolved to a region, MPs in Westminster shouldn't vote when that issue is discussed for the remaining regions. Otherwise the power hasn't devolved at all, it's just doubled.
Interesting, a-hole sees this as Nationalism, that is because he is an ignorant turd. It's not nationalism at all it's democracy.
I couldn't care less whether no powers, some powers, most powers or all powers are devolved to Cardiff, Edinburgh or Belfast...it should be self-determined by those populations. Neither nationalist no unionist.
However, once the powers to represent people have been devolved, the MPs in Westminster from those regions shouldn't be voting on the devolved issues when they are discussed for the rest of the UK.
Sadly for A-hole and his turd-like anti-democratic Marxist ideals, this means that people have their representatives voting on issues that effect them, not others.
Imagine A-holes ridiculous plan elsewhere. Perhaps there should only be an English Parliament where Scots are banned, but in the Scottish Parliament the English hold the balance of power...ludicrous.
Or perhaps a new EU deal where the English decide all the laws for the rest of Europe but none of the apply to England.
We already knew A-hole didn't like democracy, I didn't realise he was too thick to get it.
Sadly some of these politicians go too far,
Oct 12th, 2013 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It totally goes to their head, power mad
I think, and it only an idea,
We should have,
National parties = representing all of the uk
And whoever gets in power, must represent all of the UK regardless,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Then we should have country governments//councils
There job would be to look after all local issues,
Local taxes, cops , public services , roads , rail , buses ,,
Estate management, safety, ect ect,
No local party, council can declare UDI, [stops power mad fools]
And the national parties, thus UK government,
Divides money to local government, and allow them to create their own money for extra resources,
Deals with Defence, diplomacy, national bodies like NHS , foreign issues , immigration ect ect.
Or something along those lines,
We have had a parliament for nearly a thousand years, and still get it wrong sometimes,
And the rich get richer, and the poor gets poorer,
And all they do is blame each other,
Last but not least,
That 12 billion aid, could and should be used for the British people.
Just a thought..
..
A lot of people here who don't know what they're talking about, with respect to Scottish independence. Why is independence even mentioned on a site about South American affairs?
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0quite agree old boy
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0alas mercopress seems to have different opinions..
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!