MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Madrid furious with Gibraltar “lack of respect” towards Spanish law enforcement agencies
The storm of protest in Spain over Gibraltar Chief Minister Fabian Picardo’s speech to the UN this week showed no sign of letting up with a fresh round of political complaints and even the threat of legal action, according to the Gibraltar Chronicle. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIt must be something endemic in the Spanish psyche, they are genuinely surprised and upset when the people they are bullying fight back.
Oct 13th, 2013 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Britworker
Oct 13th, 2013 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed
The Spanish have been bullying Gib for years and now they don't like it when Picardo uses their tactics. The idiots obviously did not hear the bit where Picardo points out how many Spaniards are employed on the Rock, and the potential to employ more. Only the Spanish (or Argentines) could consider that as bad news.
The little matter of the volume of evidence the Spanish forces have been happy for Gibaltarians to gather should make any attempted case against Mr Picardo a joke.
Oct 13th, 2013 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Level of delusion within the Spanish rightwing must be even greater than I thought if they are also expecting the chairman of the Fourth Committee to have any power at all over the territories where the committee is meant to be promoting self determination , let alone take whatever they fantasize to be (chuckle chuckle) 'appropriate steps'.
PMSL
The “chairperson” of the Fourth Committee should take great care. Gibraltar is not a member of the U.N. It is under no obligation to pay any attention to any organ of the U.N. Let us not forget that this is the Fourth Committee of the General Assembly. Another body with neither power nor authority. The only organ of the U.N. with “power” and “authority” is the Security Council. And that has to rely on national governments. It may well be time for Britain to stop talking and start doing. Send in the British Army. It has the necessary to do what is required by land, sea and air. Close the border from Gibraltar's side. Connections to the “outside world” via Morocco. Hi-speed catamaran ferries. New ones. Gibraltar-owned and operated. Picardo IS the man to tell the U.N. where to get off.
Oct 13th, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The press is racking up the invective.
Oct 13th, 2013 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have chased back the origins of the Racism publicity attached to the Picardo presentation at the UN C24.
Although it appears in many agency media (as observed on the internet), the origin seems to be - not Picardo - but the sub-editor of Mercopress.
Who benefits from this racking up of invective?
“Spain was exercising “impeccable restraint”
Oct 13th, 2013 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By repeatedly violating Gibraltar's waters?
Disproportionate border checks on Spanish citizens? (Not to mention the Gibraltarians)?
Presumably, Spanish restraint means not mounting a military invasion of Gibraltar.
Good luck with that Rajoy, hope you feel lucky, and have issued your forces with enough white flags.
“This chain of false accusations will not go unpunished,” it said in a statement. The sentiment was echoed by the Sindicato Profesional de Policía, which said it too would take legal steps.”
What are you going to do Spanish rozzer, when Gibraltar's evidence is presented at court?
Sounds an echo of Timerman taking all those oil companies to court, (still waiting Gollum).
“This was a statement by the Chief Minister of HMGoG who represents the people of Gibraltar,” a spokesman for the Foreign & Commonwealth Office said.”
Spain still don't get it that the UK let Gib govern themselves and that the colony mentality has gone forever.
Will they ever learn?
“The British Government has not commented on the reaction to the Chief Minister’s speech, or on its content. “This was a statement by the Chief Minister of HMGoG who represents the people of Gibraltar,” a spokesman for the Foreign & Commonwealth Office said.”
Oct 13th, 2013 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.....FCO......it wasn't us!!
....how much trouble causing is Britain going to tolerate from these BOT's that contribute nothing and no benefit to the UK?
Does the UK need all this aggravation?
Gibraltar.....“because we're worth it”.......are they?
....it wasn't us......;-))))
@7
Oct 13th, 2013 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“....how much trouble causing is Britain going to tolerate from these BOT's that contribute nothing and no benefit to the UK?”
What exactly would you like to propose then? Offload them to the nearest bigger neighbour? Nick Ridley tried that with the Falklands years ago.......Times have changed since then, its all about the people and their rights of self determination. The values of today are somewhat different to those of the 19th century. I'm sure you would agree.
What a good looking and elegant woman Soraya Saez is for a top brass of government
Oct 13th, 2013 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 08
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I don't agree.....
Self determination.....the rights of nations to be a trouble causing burden to other countries....
Self determination....the rights of a minority to be a trouble causing burden to other countries...
Self determination....the rights of a minority without a referendum by the majority of the administering country on whether they wish to have these extra economic burdens....
True British people dying for people that think of themselves as Falkland first and British second.....is ludicrous!
If these BOT's wish to be British the choice should only be full integration with Britain or lose British nationality and declare independence and have a free association like commonwealth countries.
With no obligation by the UK public to bear the costs of defence!
They shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it.....
Not one of them wants full integration.....but still wants all the freebies provided by the UK nations.....
The right of self determination of the peoples of the UK.....A referendum....a democracy.....a choice.....
7a-void
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“....how much trouble causing is Britain going to tolerate from these BOT's that contribute nothing and no benefit to the UK?
Does the UK need all this aggravation?
Gibraltar.....“because we're worth it”.......are they?”
Omg, A-void is now righteously indignant, on behalf of the British people no less!!!
What a joke!
@7
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you willfind its Spain, the EU are pissed off with, not the UK
Dear A_Voice what is wrong with being Falklander first British Second? I am English first,British second,I am sure lots of my fellow countrymen and women feel the same,they are either English,Welsh ,Scots or Irish first British second.
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 011
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah I'm in a “Pro-British” mood today....;-)))
Standing up for the silent majority...
There'll always be an England
And England shall be free
If England means as much to you
As England means to me.
Scots wha ha'e wi' Wallace bled
Scots wham Bruce has often led
Welcome to your gory bed
Or to victory
Men of Harlech! In the hollow,
Do ye hear like rushing billow
Wave on wave that surging follow
Battle's distant sound?
'Tis the tramp of Saxon foemen,
Saxon spearmen, Saxon bowmen,
Be they knights or hinds or yeomen,
They shall bite the ground!
.....don't know any Northern Irish ones..
13
Yes ...but are you a British citizen from the UK ...born in the UK or a pretend Brit from a BOT?
@10
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seriously think the UK - its people and politicians - would sanction the offloading and abandonment of the Falklands and Gibraltar, against the will of its citizens, to the likes of Argentina and Spain, simply because they crave them under false pretences?
I mean, you're not even British, why do you care. I get the impression you are trying to make some sort of subversive point by hiding your true nationality and agenda. Its quite common on here and very easy to spot.
I am as British as a Falklander,Gibraltarian,St.Helenian etc there is no difference British is as British does
Oct 13th, 2013 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 015
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ooo you are a sharp one.....easy to spot is it.....perhaps that is because I have always admitted that I have no intention of admitting a nationality..;-)))
In fact you are so sharp that if you read the post again.....I do not see anywhere where I mentioned offloading onto Spain or Argentina...
16
What makes you British is where you were born, educated and influenced...it becomes a part of you.....not something dished out by a government....
These people of the BOT's were not even British Citizens 20 years ago......
What does it matter to you anyway? if you are British complain to your MP if you are not British quit your moaning about something that does not concern you
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 018
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for addressing all my relevant points.....
BTW.....I know quite a few British Citizens that live in Hong Kong....(Chinese actually)
.....they have never been to Britain....can barely speak English...
That is how ludicrous it is....
@ 17 A_Voice
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But you are not British, are you?
It is nothing at all to do with you and as for your ludicrous “Yeah I'm in a “Pro-British” mood today”, who cares?
You may well soon be in a “bashing Britain” mood, who knows, who cares?
Gibraltarians and the Falklanders appear far more British to me than you do.
@ 19 if you had read my first post you would not have needed to ask the question in post 14 though would you?I know a lot of people in the UK that can barely speak English but they are still British
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 020
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you don't care....don't bother responding...
Your actions belie your words.....;-)
A little tip for Spain:
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you don't want to be accused of inciting racist violence, shooting at innocent unarmed Gibraltarians in Gibraltar waters and so forth then the best way to avoid such actions are twofold:
1) Don't incite racist violence, shoot at innocent unarmed Gibraltarians in Gibraltar waters and so forth
and
2) DON'T DO IT WHILE YOU ARE ON CAMERA
Oh and also
3) If you do, then don't react to being accused of what you've done by sayings they're false allegations and demanding evidence, because with the ludicrous ease of sharing videos and photos means that finding the evidence is so painfully simple that even a politician can manage it.
14 A_Voice
Oct 13th, 2013 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The poem “O Danny Boy” is often regarded by many as Northern Irelands national anthem, sung to the tune of “Londonderry Air”.
I lived in Tyrone for a couple of years and grew rather tired of it. Check out the lyrics, do you not find them a little morbid?
If your from East Belfast, than “The Sash My father Wore” is the thing to sing, any occasion will do.
If your in a pub in Derry than a quick rendition of “No, Nay, Never” will always go down a treat.
“Lack of respect” towards Spanish law
Oct 13th, 2013 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Totally agree with Spain,
After all what has poor Spain ever done to Gibraltar ???
Ya right…
.
24
Oct 13th, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was my problem....it's not that I don't know any Irish songs...
It's separating them from the ROI....
I thought Danny Boy was the South because I remember Barry McGuigan's dad crucifying .....this bit...'Tis I'll be here sunshine or in shadow”
.....before each boxing match
Same with the Wild Rover....Irish...
Haha.....the Sash.....I wouldn't go anywhere near that one......1690 and all that!
....wrong pub and yer dead....
Thinko, A_Voice would have to actually be alive in order to die...
Oct 13th, 2013 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0chuckle chuckle
Now we know from whom we learned to create conflicts in order to deviate attention from our own crisis...
Oct 13th, 2013 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10 A_Voice,
Oct 13th, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another sr Think tactic,
Attempt to drive a wedge between the Falklanders & mainland Britain.
Won't work, Think, err l mean A_Voice.
Try again, & try to be more original this time.
We don't need a conquistador, anti British barbarian to complain about Gibraltar...that failed third world state (in debt up to its eyeballs to the EU) complaining to anyone.
Oct 13th, 2013 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell the bint to do what she does best, get on a table in a frilly frock and dance for tourists ( if they are still stupid enough to visit a backward country)
I've been saying for months that the UK, Gibraltar and Falkland Island governments play the long game.
Oct 13th, 2013 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Finally Spain (and Argentina too) are starting to see some of the effects. Spain which has been gleefully on the offensive for so many months is now furiously back-pedalling and scrambling defensively against multiple issues.
So now it's Madrid that is “furious”. Oh how easy life was before Madrid starting trying to divert attention away from its corruption problems.
Welcome to the result. I'm sure aussie_sunshine will still be highlighting the long queues at the border as proof Spain has the upper hand.
A_Hole
Oct 13th, 2013 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still posting the same ****. I know a few French that have never been to France, a few Germans that have never been to Germany, a few Tibetans that have never been to Tibet. a few Indians that have never been to India, a few Pakistanis that have never been to Pakistan etc.
“Standing up for the silent majority” - I have told you before you speak for yourself - thinking you speak for the silent majority!!! - I don't and neither do you.
32
Oct 13th, 2013 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear I suppose you have met a few English that have never been to England.....
.....and a few Scots that have never been to Scotland.......
Apart from when of course.....they were born in England...making them English
...and born in Scotland making them Scottish....
I wonder where those Germans were born......
.....Doh!
29
I don't believe it......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNrLI3OBwg
I'm Think again....make your mind up..or is it a woman's prerogative...
The only thing I know is that Mr Picardo has accused the Civil Guards...AND MAN!! ARE THEY PI..... OF.......!! wouldn´t want to be the one crossing that border at the moment..........
Oct 13th, 2013 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what will they do?
Oct 13th, 2013 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34
Oct 13th, 2013 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh I have news for you. the Guardia Civil are hated in Spain equally as much as in Gibraltar, they are massively corrupt and nothing better than thugs in a uniform.
Mr Picardo's properties in Spain, the country that “hates” the britishs of Gibraltar.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0taximarbella.com.ar/2013/10/el-minitro-principal-de-gibraltar-tiene.html
Who cares about Spain's or the Rock's feelings, whats important here is that Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría is one good looking babe. - Millet USA
Oct 14th, 2013 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 038) I agree, save for “de Santamaría” part of the comment
Oct 14th, 2013 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 7 A_Voice
Oct 14th, 2013 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0”....it wasn't us......;-))))”
Precisely - Argentina is to blame.
It is obvious that Argentina really has inherited something from Spain - the gall to tell obvious lies against all evidence, against all documentation.
“Arsenio Fernández de Mesa, the director general of the Guardia Civil, described the comments as “indecent””
Oct 14th, 2013 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Council of Europe blasts Spain on law enforcement authorities’ violations”
The report was drawn up by Nils Mulznieks, Commissioner for Human Rights of the Council of Europe, following his visit to Spain in June 2013.
“The Spanish authorities should ensure that law enforcement officials fully abide by international human rights standards” the report continues.”
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/10/13/council-of-europe-blasts-spain-on-law-enforcement-authorities-violations
33 A_Hole
Oct 14th, 2013 - 06:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sudetanland. etc. - there are several parts of Europe that contain Germans, but are not Germany.
A voice no brain.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was born in Hong Kong and I am as British as you can get. I love the UK but unlike you I would defend the British way off life till my death. That is what it means to be British to feel you belong..
I have posted elsewhere about the EU criticism of Spain for 'racist' behaviour, so people are not unaware. But, as the vast majority of Spain has been fought-over and bloodied by the Muslims and the Christians for centuries, they have more 'history'. No excuse, but more context.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0............................
... repeating my #5 - which has been studiously ignored by all factions:
'I have chased back the origins of the Racism publicity attached to the Picardo presentation at the UN C24.
Although it appears subsequently in many agency media (as observed on the internet), the origin of this accusation of racism seems to be - not Picardo - but the sub-editor of Mercopress.'
42/43
Oct 14th, 2013 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0How stupid are you two?.......
The “Germans” depending on when they were born...pre 1993.....would not be Germans they would be Czechoslovakians or post 93 Czechs or Slovakians...
So not German at all.....
If you were born in Hong Kong I guess you are not English...Scottish...Welsh or Northern Irish to be one of those you would need to be born in one of those countries......What are you Hong Kongish......
I know what you two are.....Fuckwittish......
who is this fatuous bint anyway? The title is impressive, but the words are meaningless and of course not true, the conquistador barbarians started all this fuss with Gibraltar.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Having respect for the Spanish law agencies is pointless, even Spain are arresting them wholesale for corruption and smuggling...what's to respect??
A-Hole has no intention of admitting a nationality
Oct 14th, 2013 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0possibly because “gormless cock” isn't a nationality....
45
Oct 14th, 2013 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0How little you know I was born there many years ago. I now live in the UK better here than anywhere else. I have a Chinese birth certificate and as my parents applied when I was born I also have a British birth certificate and that was nearly 40 years ago so you could say I am what you hate most a product of the empire. But I am pleased with my history thank you better to be under the British empire who built schools roads railways and did not try to change local coustoms and religions but imbraced them and used them to help we where so hated as an empire by all the people off the countrys we where in that in the second world war instead of what would have been a easy task the independent they thought with us the Japanese even offered India it's freedom if it help them fight the British but they decided the British are better and we where so bad most ex empire countries have kept the queen as there head of state and the Chinese have not even tried to change that in Hong Kong.
*36 You seem to know the Guardia Civil fairly well!!
Oct 14th, 2013 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0You wouldn´t by any chance be in The Most Wanted British Criminal
posters in the Costa Del Sol and wanted by Scotland Yard??
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2412238-Revealed-Britains-wanted-men-run-costa-del-crime.html
AVoice please don't get me wrong I would never slag an argentinian or a Spaniard of never been to Argentina looks a lovely country been to Spain the only problem with that is I may as well just gone to Blackpool on a very hot day would have been no different.. we all have are own versions of history but I know the UK history on the Gibraltar and the Falklands is probably right other wise both Spain and Argentina would have gone to the ICJ as they have about everything what they know they would win...
Oct 14th, 2013 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0But also unlike the Spanish empire where most ex colonies hate there old colonial master and would live to change history to suit themselves.. most of the ex British colonies love there history and imbrace it but that aside no empire is good.
To be fair that spanish patrol boat has a fair turn of speed when you fire an 84mm at it.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*50 Blackpool is not comparable to Spain....
Oct 14th, 2013 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First when you go to Spain one must take in the culture not just
the sun. Go to a flamenco show or a bullfight (not for the weak) take in the monuments and taste the food...And get away from the beach..
I have been a few times to Spain..loved Granada.Seville..Madrid..Barcelona...merida..Toledo...
50
Oct 14th, 2013 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's right you are a product of the British Empire.....
Never in the field of human conquest
was there so much... exploitation of the many ...by so few
The People's Republic of China does not recognise dual nationality with any other country....
The explanations concerning the implementation of the nationality of Hong Kong residents is that Hong Kong residents of Chinese descent are Chinese nationals, whether or not they have acquired the right of abode in foreign countries.
British Citizen passports held by Chinese Hong Kong residents under the British Nationality Selection Scheme (British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act 1990) are also not recognised by the Chinese government as such. Furthermore, Hong Kong Chinese nationals who hold such passport or have a right of abode in countries outside the People's Republic of China are not entitled to British (or any other nation's) consular protection inside the People's Republic of China (including Hong Kong, Macau and mainland China).
China regards foreign control of Hong Kong to have been illegitimate, and thus refuses to recognize the foreign nationality conferred upon many Chinese people in Hong Kong.
....What a pickle....which are you British or Chinese...?
....In the event of a war with China....would you kill your brethren...or more appropriately....who are your brethren...?
*50 where did you get the idea that Spanish ex colonies hate their old colonial master..spain??
Oct 14th, 2013 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Ibero American summit will bring together on the 18-19 October (next week) the following Spanish and Portuguese Nations..
Mexico..Brazil..Argentina..Colombia..Venezuela...Peru...Chile..Ecuador..
Cuba..Dominican Republic..Uruguay..Guatemala...Costa Rica..Panama..
Bolivia..El Salvador..Paraguay..Honduras...Nicaragua..Andorra..The Phillipines..Puert Rico..Haiti..Ecuatorial Guinea..
Nations wishing to join:
Turk and Caicos Islands.
Bahamas
Belice
Monaco
Angola
Aruba
Bonaire
Curazao
Federation Of Micronesian States
Gibraltar
Guam
Indian States Of: Dadra and Bisau/Haveli/Daman and Diu/Goa
MArianas
St Tome and Princpe
Trininidad and Tobaco
Guadalupe
Monzabique
Moroco
The islands of Malaysia...Malacca and Sabah
and SPAIN AND PORTUGAL..
No their is no hatred between Spain/Portugal and colonies...
I would be very surprised if someone from the F.O. hasn't let Chief Minister Picardo know, as diplomatically as possible, that they would welcome the opportunity to provide him their best advice the next time he decides to throw his weight around ( and no, that's neither a pun nor an insult ) with Spain being the target.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain is already softening it's posture on Gibralter, they apologised for that stupid youtubed play and the E.U. is investigating the excessive queues at the border. I'm sure their report will basically say to the Spanish, 'cool it, you've had your fun, playtime is over'. Or some version thereof.
The Spanish leadership is under a tremendous amount of pressure, mostly because so are the Spanish people. The independence threats are significant. Lots of angry, impatient people, many of whom are no doubt aware of the significantly higher standard of living those living on the Rock enjoy. Spain has a lot steam to let off and Gibralter makes an easy target.
I can't believe that the Spanish really believe that their recent behaviour re Gibralter is going to make getting their hands on it any easier. I mean - now? After 300 years? With no legal case to make for sovereignty? No, Rajoy is leading a very pissed off, divided country and Rajoy is just glad they're not blowing it all in his direction.
The Spanish just need time so they don't lose face as they slowly back down. Cameron, whom I'm sure can empathise more closely with Rajoy than Picardo, knows this and will give them the time they need.
52 lol sorry. I do go for the culture not for the beach I hate sitting on the beach all day.. yes Spain does have a great history and most of the people there are very nice but you get the few in every country that mess it up for everyone.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 053. To be honest with I hope there will never be a war with China because if there was to be I don't think any country would not come out unscaved it would effect everyone but I would put on a British uniform. To whom would you aline yourself with...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/14/gibraltar-falklands-deny-logic-history
Oct 14th, 2013 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Coming from a British news paper - So there are actually a Few Brits with brains - There is hope yet! In about 60 years the rest might catch-up. But then again - in 60 years Britain will be Britainistan - so the Moors will own the rock again :-)
56
Oct 14th, 2013 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was not the answer I was expecting....it took the wind out of my sails...
You are indeed British with UK brethren......
Must be more than a word after all.....
I would tend to align with democracies...
58 thank you.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have chased back the origins of the Racism publicity attached to the Picardo presentation at the UN C24.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although it appears subsequently in many agency media
(as observed on the internet posting of the C24 verbatim speeches and papers),
the origin of this accusation of racism seems to be - not Picardo - but the sub-editor of Mercopress.
Freedom of the press does not include inflammatory lies.
@57
Oct 14th, 2013 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...Not Simon Jenkins again.....
You do of course understand this was a 'personal opinion piece' for Guardian by Simon?
Hey look, 1072 comments on the article by Guardian readers. Why not go read them. See what they think; after all they are Guardian readers no less. LOL.
@60 Geoff
Oct 14th, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You appear to be taking Merco's lapse in ethics personally.
As can be seen from the article, Pedro is linking to, Simon Jenkins' is a clown (in Argentina he would be called a traitor).
Oct 14th, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At the end of his article it says “This article was amended on 14 August 2013. It originally stated that the US department of state had called Gibraltar ”a major European centre of money laundering“. In fact, it was referring to Spain. This has now been corrected.”
A stupid lie, as we can all see that nowhere in the article does it say that Gibraltar should be handed over to Spain, which is a major European centre of money laundering.
@61 - I do indeed understand - As I put it so crystal clear - some Brits, a few in fact, do have brains. You therefore do understand - do you? The majority can't think - Bravo for emphasizing that. Simon Jenkins is the exception.LOL
Oct 14th, 2013 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 045 A_Hole
Oct 14th, 2013 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously don't know your history - particularly European - too busy reading your poetry (and speaking for the silent majority) - “Nationality is the miracle of political independence; race is the principal of physical analogy”
@64 Pedro
Oct 14th, 2013 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simon Jenkins is not a traitor, he's not a Sepoy. He's merely a journalist expressing a personal opinion. His schtick is going against the grain and been a bit controversial; bit of a Julie Burchill if you like. As a consequence I bet Simon was on the guest list for Alicia's free steak and wine bash last week ;)
We are quite free and easy that way because we are a very mature sophisticated society. You know that. I wish you the same in your land.
52 I would love to have gone or go to bullfight but my wife is a vegetarian unlike me she would probably divorce me if I went lol.. I can ride a bike as fast as I like around a track kill myself that would be ok but bullfighting is a no no.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks Casper #62, I was beginning to get paranoid, thinking I was the only one who could see my 'revelation'. I guess people only see what they want to see and v.v.
Oct 14th, 2013 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I vote for the Soraya Sáenz de Santamaría, the Spanish deputy prime minister, anyone as good looking as she is can't be wrong. Unless the Rock can put up a woman from their side that is even better looking. Who gives a damn about the stupid conflict. It is not worth even one word of all the 68 comments written above.
Oct 15th, 2013 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@69
Oct 15th, 2013 - 04:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It is not even worth even one word of all the 68 comments written above”.
Using your formula that would make it 69.
Now THAT'S an interesting formula!
Oct 15th, 2013 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@71
Oct 15th, 2013 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Especially given the subtext...
@ 66 - I wish you the best in your land as well - Mine will be a mess for decades to come. Thanks to British colonialism as in countless other parts of the world. Not in my lifetime will my land be what it potentially could be.British companies still harvest the wealth to benefit you, whilst millions here have no hope. A terribly unjust and brutal British legacy that will take far too long to overcome. On the maturity issue I must however disagree. The mindset of most Britain's are still a Colonial one without the maturity to acknowledge the enormous damage you have done. The Kenya apology recently was a mature gesture. Unfortunately this apology is the only exception so far.Fortunately people like Simon Jenkins displays the maturity and sophistication to acknowledge British atrocities and critiques the general stubborn clinging to a “glorious” colonial past, best forgotten. So - A mature and sophisticated society would have apologized and corrected their mistakes by now and would not have been so arrogant in their dealings with treaties forged under gunpoint. Riding the US tail I suspect is the reason for the arrogance. But, that will change, still in our lifetime.
Oct 15th, 2013 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Spain was exercising “impeccable restraint”
Oct 15th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And how is that when vehicles are suddenly backed up for 3-5 hours at the Frontier ?
By using rubber bullets, instead of lead bullets when the Guardia Civil patrol boat was chasing the lone jet skier in Gibraltar waters. Or, in absence of the actual bullets fired, so they say.
@73 Pedro
Oct 15th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How is Britain's colonial legacy and/or guilt any different from, Spain's, Argentina's, France's, Italy's, Portugal's,the USA's....do tell?
Has Spain apologised for its past grave misdemeanors? Has Argentina apologised for the Conquest of the Desert and Roca's genocidal campaign. I think not.
You appear to have a very blinkered, biased view of history; your out of context approach of judging the past - and blaming others - using 21st century values is nonsensical.
As a matter of interest, why do you blame Britain for your current problems?
@73
Oct 15th, 2013 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know nothing of history Pedro my friend, everything you have just said is typical uninformed pathetic lefty nonsense.
Pedro, blame everyone else but your country for its sad condition. Its must be very one else fault not us. Oh please!! - Millet USA
Oct 16th, 2013 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pedro #73
Oct 16th, 2013 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a fact that China invaded and brought into servitude most of Asia and Europe. This was big-time colonisation and, as such, should be referred to the UNC24 for reparations, don't you think?
The claim can be lodged by Russia, the countries of Eastern Europe, Iran, the Middle East states, the Muslim states of central and southern Asia, the Indian sub-continent of states. And it doesn't stop there - many countries now part of China itself can realistically claim.
As China is now the de facto owner of Mongolia, it must bear full responsibility for these genocides, the trading losses and the destruction of nations.
Yes, Pedro, Mongolia and China have much for which to answer!
Genghis Khan and his blood-descendants must be brought to book, imprisoned and made to suffer for their misdeeds. An 'eye for an eye', the Bible tells us (I assume you are a good Catholic).
The fact that his blood-descendants encompass most modern Eurasia is no excuse. This colonial past must be finally expunged in the fire of a colonial final reckoning. Time and distance are no mitigants.
And we must not be blinded by claimants realising that they, themselves are blood-descendants. Yes, Pedro, your time has come.
All blood-descendants of ALL colonial usurpers must be similarly extirpated.
I think you will agree, Pedro, this will powerfully address the earth's population problem and, incidentally, will give all true-bred South Americans the lebesraum that they so seek.
#73 Pedro.
Oct 16th, 2013 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have missed something here. What is your country ?
79 Clyde15
Oct 16th, 2013 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I have missed something here. What is your country ?”
Take your pick: Spain, Portugal, Argentina, brazil, and any of the other bleeding heart SA ones by the sound of this bleeter.
Pedro: grow up and stand on your own feet and stop the blathering.
Just to give you context - My country is not in South America. Pointing out the colonial mistakes made by others does not absolve the British from theirs. The subject here is Britain, Spain, Gibraltar and the Falklands. Not China or any other Colonial Tyranny. I dont approve of that either. My response - an article http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/14/gibraltar-falklands-deny-logic-history
Oct 16th, 2013 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So now everyone is on the same page.
British Colonial Decisions have had and still has an impact for decades after they were taken. Think Palestine/Israel - India/Pakistan/Kashmir to name just a few.The consequences of British actions still causing conflict and war decades after the Brits fled when their mastership failed. You seem too stupid or hard arsed to acknowledge that fact.@ 77 - US decision and actions have the same impact Millet. How long do you think it will take for stability to return to Afghanistan and Iraq now effectively both fighting civil wars due to US uncalled for intervention. How many people will suffer for decades to come because of this? How many have been mutilated, maimed and will die in future? How many new radicals have this spawned to bomb and kill indiscriminately? And yes both Britain and the US will be targets, unfortunately. But you and others here obviously don't care. As long as your privileged little lives can continue unhindered( it wont for ever) and you can preach your immature and unintelligent drivel in the name of Britain and the US. As I said before - Gods representatives on earth. Perhaps time to change tack on your relations with the rest of the world and how you do things. You are radicalizing the world and destabilizing it. The Brits have been doing it for centuries, Time to stop
Pedro, to answer your question about how many.... not enough. There are still some Taliban standing.- Millet USA
Oct 16th, 2013 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@81
Oct 16th, 2013 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again you know nothing of history my friend, as I said you are cloning on to the un-informed and narrow minded view that Imperialism and Colonialism are bad things, which they are not.
I'll use the two greatest Empires in history as examples of why you are so wrong; Rome and Britain.
The Roman Empire slaughtered 10s of millions in their pursuit of ultimate power and yet they are seen by most as being one of the greatest civilising forces on Earth. They killed millions and in-slaved millions more, they Chopped down so many trees in North Africa and limed and poisoned the Earth so much there in an attempt to punish the peoples of that region that to this day a once beautiful natural area is mostly desert.
And yet despite this Rome has done so much to advance are ways that we would otherwise be behind technologically and economically. Ill give you a single example; When the Roman empire fell in the 400's in the west there wouldn't be another functioning sewage system like it in any city for another 1000 years.
The British Empire innovated and changed in the world in ways that have never been seem before or since. To this day more then half the worlds inventions go to Britain alone, the rest of the world combined doesn't even make up the other 50%.
The British Empire did some of the following:
1.Became the first true Superpower in history as well as being the only country to truly fill the standards needed to be a hyper power.
2.Industrial Revolution
3.Worlds first universal Language
4.Created well over half of the countries on Earth
5.Biggest innovator and spreader of Democracy probably in history.
The British and Roman empires did bad things yes, but these are tiny in comparison to what they have done for the world. British famine policy in India and Ireland was a blemish, but we turned India for example from a sub-continet of well over 500 savage religious fanatic states into the biggest democracy in the world. I could go on with even more examples as well.
#73
Oct 16th, 2013 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Mine will be a mess for decades to come. Thanks to British colonialism as in countless other parts ....”
I think I asked a fair question....what terrible crimes did the UK commit against your unspecified land ?
You make unsubstantiated statements about how YOUR country has been so affected by the UK that it will take decades to correct.
So, please name your country so we can give a reasoned reply.
As to Israel/Palestine, we were given a poisoned chalice with this one.
No matter what we did, there was bound to be a war.
As for India, the Muslims wanted their own state and got it. If the Hindus and Muslims wanted to kill each other, what did you expect Britain to do. Come back and impose colonial rule ?
The same could be said for many of our ex colonies. They were left with a system of government and law....many would have been better off if we had stayed as they are breaking down into inter tribal warfare and being ruled by dictators. The people are technically “free” but worse off.
@73 Pedro
Oct 16th, 2013 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does India still protest about the Mughals and their empire ( think Taj Mahal)? No.
I'm British: should I decry and whine about the Romans, Swedes, Danes, Normans, Germans for past crimes and atrocities committing against my 'kin'? Of course not, that would be silly, because that's History.
You've been been asked where you reside and who you represent; who exactly are you the spokesman for? You have not answered. You're telling me, your ancestors have a clean pair of hands? Or are you just bitter because they were less successful then their historical peers.
“Pedro” you say: sounds like a conquistador name to me.
Pedro is clearly an anti British twerp and probably a Spanish one, therefore can be safely ignored.
Oct 17th, 2013 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Spain have no moral ground to stand on, Christ it's barely a democracy in any meaningful sense.
It was their conquistadors that wiped out two whole civilisations (Aztec & Inca) it is their semi literate fishermen who are trying to empty the worlds oceans of fish (without any regard for laws or the environment) it was Spain who colonised large parts of the Americas with their barbaric Catholic religion backed up with inhuman force)
Spain are a nation of animal tormenting barbarians, any claim to culture they have was mostly inherited from the Moors who occupied Spain centuries ago, before Spain brutally expelled them.......then there is the small matter of the centuries long inquisition....what a civilised and cultured bunch they are!
I think Pedro is a young family-migrated Brasilian, probably living in the USA. He chose his name because it combines Brasilian history and his favourite US card-game.
Oct 17th, 2013 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the other hand, maybe he just likes this LatAm moniker. :-)
So desperate to put me in a box, Your words saturated with your racist immature view of the world. So I must be Spanish or from Brazil or from South America or an hispanic immigrant to the US. If I am any of those how does this make me less of a human being than you are? What in fact does it matter? Just to get you frothing around the mouth with indignity - I am an African and pitch black (horror of horrors) So now you can really vent your racist superiority complexes. I am not anti-British or anti-American . I am Anti-colonialist in the day and age we live in. It is over, do you get it?But the mess it left is far from over. I am anti countries that consider themselves superior and exploit others for their oil, minerals and natural wealth by instigating wars or clinging to unjust war spoils. Creating the Taliban and Al Qaeda, training them and then later on you have to fight them when relationships sour. Calling Hamas your enemy but giving them weapons to fight Bashir Al Assad so that tomorrow they can use the weapons against you and Israel. I am anti- dictators that are tolerated for convenience sake by the West or because of a lack of benefits to them. I am anti “democratically” elected populist facists.
Oct 18th, 2013 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But alas you lot are so stuck in your narrow way of thinking you cant even dream of a world where things are not done by the gun but by reasonable discourse and a little give and take. You can only feed your lack of intellect by attacking the culture and race of those you don't agree with or that you have been indoctrinated to see as the enemy. That - because of your archaic and narrow worldview. Worst however is your complete lack of acknowledging that perhaps somewhere you have screwed up and are still screwing up the lives of others sharing this planet with you. Once you develop the ability to do that and live it out, the world will be so much better. But I am not optimistic that you will in fact ever develop too that level.
#88
Oct 18th, 2013 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You still have not answered the question !
Settle down Pedro.
Oct 18th, 2013 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There has always been colonialism & there always will be.
“Every dog has his day”
Throughout history there has always been one group of humans lording it over another group.
This goes for ALL races & nationalities.
ln the future, the west may be the colonised & someone else, China perhaps, will be the colonisers.
No one can tell.
We will have no peace on this planet until we are all the same colour, speak the same language & are all the same religion.
90 lsolde (#) - peace can only exist when there is just a single human being upon the earth. Pedro's high hopes are but a impossible dream. Cain killed his bother Abel, and fighting has never stopped to this very day - this very hour. Indeed it will continue and continue and yet continue. Some of the worst human right violations exist in African Congo, and in that country much of it is black on black. - Millet USA
Oct 19th, 2013 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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