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Pulp mill dispute: Uruguay rejects Argentine ultimatum and doubles the bet

Thursday, October 17th 2013 - 05:47 UTC
Full article 24 comments

The Uruguayan government rejected on Wednesday Argentina’s ultimatum referred to the UPM (former Botnia) pulp mill production expansion, and doubled the bet by proposing a reform of the shared River Uruguay Statute to increase environmental impact standards but also include both margins of the waterway. Read full article

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  • golfcronie

    Oh dear, that is below the belt. Fancy asking Argentina to improve the environmental standards at the mouth of the Gualeguaychu river. I wonder if the Argies care about the river, after all it dissipates all the effluent into the South Atlantic, or should I say The Argentinian Sea. Anyway the effluent will go past Brazil, carried on the currents.

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Gonzo22

    “doubled the bet” haha Mercopress, you're so overrating yourself, trying to create a turmoil between the countries, don't be like that, you're too insignificant. There are so many things we share, Argentina and Uruguay, keep looking from the outsider's point of view, Mercopress.

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Go Uruguay!

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Must have hurt Almagro to have to send such a letter to his pal “Timmy”. And Uruguay is playing hardball. “accuses Argentina of ‘pre-judging’ and ‘putting obstacles”, and strongly defends the decision to authorize the UPM production expansion detailing extensively the different steps taken by Uruguay in compliance with the River Uruguay statute, The Hague Court ruling, and ‘courteously’ keeping Argentina notified all along the process.” Slap, slap, slap. The gauntlet around Timmy's chops. And what a lovely way to increase CFK's blood pressure. And isn't CARU a “joint” monitoring body? What was the lazy argie “delegation” up to? Perhaps they misunderstood the meaning of the word “joint” and spent all their time time smoking 'em! Timmy looks like a fool again.

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JamesS

    4 agreed Timerman looks like a fool with this and his nonsense whining against the Falklanders, It won't be long before CFK has a cabinet re-shuffle ! Just wonder what his next job will be !

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    @5 Ambassador to St Vincent and the Grenadines perhaps?

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    Kirchnerism sees something in Sergio Urribarri that will make him a possible successor for 2015, they now have their “casus belli” to sabre rattle for the time in between. It doesn’t matter for them if they are wrong or right. The ICJ ruling will be meaningless for them after the elections.
    He can also sell out to his future electorate that while he was the governor of Entre Rios he was a true environmentalist

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    CD
    Urribarri and the truth? Well you hit me down with a feather. What has one to do with the other?
    1. UPM does not pollute the river. The diplomatic concession to RA to increase production should be withdrawn and the original target of UPMs production should be aprroved and to hell with the Hague
    2. The feeder rivers in Uruguay are pristine and do not pollute the Uruguay river. The industrial and domestic wastes from Concepcion and Gualeguaychu certainly do so
    3.As for CARP Buenos Aires disgorges its stinking effluents into the Rio de la Plata. What are they doing about that? Bugger all!

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    @8 Yeah I know, most of us know that.... I understand why you will feel the way you do. But you are complaining to the wrong guy, you should protest outside Argentine embassies and consulates in Montevideo and make life as hard as you can for Argentine politicians buying property and laundering money in URU. But Mujica's government shouldn’t have gone in the appeasement trend with the Kirchners, in fact they’ve gone to bed with them. As De La Sota says “No hay manera digna de llevarse bien con esta gente” and they will betray you for a couple of bucks or turn their backs on you for a hand full of votes without even thinking twice. Mujica didn’t see this Vazquez did.
    If I were you I would get a similar treaty for the River Plate.
    Btw I don’t see how can CARP contaminate that much, one of its historical legends is Uruguayan.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txrv-KvQ_yg

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    Cabeza. I quite agree but I am getting a bit long in the tooth to chain myself to the railings of the Argentine embassy! But if push comes to shove with those stinkers of Gualeguaychu I will be there
    As to football, well we won tha last match didnt we?

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @11 Do the sensible thing. Nick the railings!

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    @11 Appreciate the joke.lol.But nicking things is an Argentine habit,not ours

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    I wonder what Almagro had to drink before he signed the several page document designed to kick Gollum in the knackers (if they can find them)?

    Nice to see it though, Pepe and co. might go out looking good instead of No 1 arselickers to TMBOA.

    Vasquez never spoke to TMBOA last time he was President, hope he continues the good work.

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    redpoll
    It’s really sad that this is actually happening. This morning I actually commentated on a FI related article here in MP a perfectly moderate and objective comment as far as I’m concerned and the islanders engaged me as if I had some hidden motive or as if I had any negative feelings as to what is going on. I got the sensation they see me as a bad person only because I’m Argentine, but I understand that there is no reconciliation possible, and I can also understand there animosity towards Argentines, but that should not occur amongst URU and ARG it would be a tragedy if it does, we are still in time to prevent that, and I don’t think that we will ever come to that extreme.

    I personally don’t want to submit or bully nor Uruguayans nor the islanders, but you have URU commentators even here in MP that are perfectly fine to be trampled over by the CFK cronies all because of this supra-lationoamerican rhetoric that eventually creates a mentality that enables the submission of small countries… All this idea of “Patria Grande” was actually invented by this Uruguayan communist Eduardo Galleano, not by San Martin and Bolivar who were real libertarians. Countries should be good neighbors and get along, but “Continentalism” is not what we need. That is what’s happened in the EU, big countries by de facto end up dictating terms on smaller ones.
    I’m sorry but Uruguay is behaving like the girlfriend that always gets cheated but eventually comes back to the boyfriend after the crisis has passed instead of taking the further step and being independent.

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    @13 Chris I think we have a new ghostly helmsman at the tiller - Vasquez. He can see that Uruguayans are solidly behind Pepes decision. If Pepe backs down the Frente will lose the next election
    @14 Cabeza I dont see you as antagonistic to my country but as a pragmatic Argentine mendocina patriot who has even been called a traitor by the extremists on these threads. If the kelpers wish to take your posts the other way thats thier affair
    The problem as always is that in any nationalistic differendum the moderates in the middle are not popular with either side
    I cnant say I agree with all your posts, but I think yours is a voice ofintelligent moderation, unlike that of your current government
    Keep it up and dont getyour knickers in a twist by replying to people like our foghorn from Chubut

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    1.“Argentina would be forced to again appeal to the International Court of Justice in The Hague”.

    2.“Uruguay all along has acted in conformity with its international obligations, both referred to the River Uruguay statute” as with “the ruling from the International Court of Justice” from April 2010, points out the letter.”

    So if Uruguay are going to continue to abide by the decision of the ICJ,(ie is not going against the ruling) it is incongruous that Timerman is going to achieve anything by returning there.

    Is this just a quest for air miles?

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    Peatbog Great to hear that 40% of energy in the Falklands is wind generated. Argentina has a lot of wind also and most of it,contaminatedwith methane, and other pollutants is emitted from the fundaments of the current Argentine government

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    @15
    First of all I’m CordobES not MendociNA
    You can disagree as much as you may like with my views and opinions. What gets me furious sometimes is people that are clearly dishonest when you are debating with them, resorting to spin your argument, accusing you of being racist or discrediting you only on an ideology basis, stuff like that just for the sake of having the last word when they know perfectly well they have run out of arguments. However I admit some of my responses to this kind of behavior has being disproportionate to British, Argentine, Uruguayan or other commentators alike

    Oct 17th, 2013 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    @ 17 redp0ll
    “Argentina has a lot of wind also” yeah, but unfortunately most of it comes from Gollum Timerman's rear end :)

    Oct 18th, 2013 - 02:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @18 You have to ignore the personal insults and continue to proffer your point on the subject of debate. It seems to be the raison d'être of some posters to try to discredit anyone who does not agree with them. Ignore it and keep posting. You will look sane, they will look bonkers.

    Oct 18th, 2013 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    @20 I don’t mind the personal insults as much as the DISHONESTY of some of them. I’ve insulted too so I’m not going to be a hypocrite. You are right but of course but I can’t be too serious and politically correct all the time ……… ;-)

    Oct 18th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @21 Good grief, no. Nothing wrong with that.

    You will never get honestly from the great brainwashed. Some genuinely believe the nonsense, some will defend it whilst realising it is bullshit and the rest are just here to troll.

    That said, there are a lot of good comments if you apply your own filter and ignore the extremes on both sides. I still wade in at times. :)

    Oct 18th, 2013 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    22) Amongst that group you mention, the ones that really believe what they say but cant back it up, and are of course still sure of what the world is to be.
    In those cases it is better to keep on debating with them, and of course the first reaction is negation and denial followed by insults and the dishonest stuff I was referring to. They will never of course admit to you that they may be wrong in the same moment, but perhaps it forces them to think, research and eventually broaden their perspectives of things and at least admitting to themselves that they were wrong. That’s OK.
    I’ve already seen this happening in here too. If you were to choose to ignore them perhaps they would still be in the original narrow mindset they had previously

    Oct 18th, 2013 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @23 LOL. That reminds me of the long conversations I had with an Argentine friend - a believer in the Malvinas myth and a CFK supporter (until recently). Point by point I dismantled all her arguments that the Malvinas belong to Argentina using facts rather than her vague fairy stories about lights seen off the coast of Patagonia etc. When she finally realised she had been mislead she wore the expression of a child who had just discovered there is no Santa. After some reflection she said, “I love you as a friend but sometimes you make me feel angry”. :) We are still friends but she no longer swallows propaganda without question. I don't expect her to agree with me but at least she questions things before accepting them. That could be why she no longer supports the K's.

    Oct 18th, 2013 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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