MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine bio-diesel exports to EU threatened by new duties: EC votes on Tuesday
Argentina's bio-diesel industry warned it faces collapse if Europe makes good on a threat to impose stiff duties on their product next month. The European Commission earlier this month moved to raise duties on Argentine and Indonesian bio-fuels in response to alleged dumping. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesHey... whom of you was it now... you lot!
Oct 19th, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wasn't trade all about a country offering a product to their people at the lowest cost?
The best part about this, is that you lot still think we are going to offer you our natural resources cheap and buy your crap expensive.
That's not going to happen.
Not even with Brazil. An agreement with them would mean the removal of rulings af this type, because Argentina isn't the only one affected by European protectionism, so is Brazil.
1) I disagree, you can’t be cheating all the time and fooling the world and not expect reprisals. CFK & Moreno madness has done it. They are to blame, not the Europeans. This is not good news at all.
Oct 19th, 2013 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CabezaDura, is CFK and Moreno to blame for European protectionism towards SA products?
Oct 19th, 2013 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't tell me Maximo is the primary responsable for the US farm bills... or is that Mujica's fault entirely?
3)And like for example what SA products can’t compete in the EU? GMO are not liked over there everybody knows this, but the fact is Mercosur and US farmers are not obliged to use GMOs. So they can’t really complain can we?. Subsidized French dairy produce has being going for years, but I have ever seeing a French yogurt or butter in the supermarket in my life. If you ask me I’m a bit tired of Brazilian or Chinese rubbish that ends up being just as expensive.
Oct 19th, 2013 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Getting anything into Argentina is an endless chain of bribes, any investment in Argentina is a endless chain of bribes, stopping people from importing by inventing retarded restrictions by the day and preventing common folk of getting dollars which is the very few options argentines have to defend their savings against inflation that they cause is ludicrous and inadmissible.
You have no idea of what you are saying, I live here you know??
Ah, you live there!
Oct 19th, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the reason Argentina is to blame for European protectionism towards SA goods.
Because you live there...
I'm saying CFK and Moreno are to blame for this European reprisal on Argentinas's biofuels
Oct 19th, 2013 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 05 Stevie
Oct 19th, 2013 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You may have read what was posted but you clearly demonstrate that you don't understand what the meaning of the post was (have you got that?).
The EU are fed up of the likes of Argentina dumping their diesel into the countries of the EU who have their own production facilities which DO NOT bend the fiscal rules that apply to ALL producers.
Even if they did it would be no different to TMBOA stopping all imports into The Dark Country unless an equivalent amount of exports is made by the importer. What an idiot she is and WHO started it all with robbing Repsol of their legally held stock and ignoring her own constitution regarding paying the market price BEFORE taking the company?
I think we may see you disappear for another few months soon because you are falling into your old ways so ably demonstrated by your alter ego: GUZZ.
Just what is it with your rabid defence of the indefensible in Argentina, the prime enemy of Uruguay? It really makes me doubt that you are Uruguayo at times FFS.
What Chris, you thought being an Uruguayo was all about having a go at Argentina?
Oct 19th, 2013 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, mate, that's divide and conquer.
Regardless of our differences, there is not a country on the surface of the planet us Uruguayos identify better with than the Argentinos.
Tallados del mismo árbol, we might always differ, but with common ground, we'll always be brothers and sisters, no matter who is at the reigns.
8) I agree with what you say, but dont get confused and believe the likes of CFK or Urribarri have the best of intentions to Uruguay, I'm sorry but they do not
Oct 19th, 2013 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1 You're funny. Do you understand ADD (anti dumping duty)? It's very specific. I can recall a case, many years ago, when it was applied to electronic typewriters manufactured by specific Japanese manufacturers. Attempts were made to avoid the ADD by sending the typewriters via Sweden. Didn't help. When they reached the UK, they were charged. We also found that they were falsifying the prices, so they got an additional bill. In this case, the ADD can be applied to bio-diesel originating in argieland, and Indonesia, irrespective of the route it takes to get to Europe. And it won't apply to “Brazilian” bio-diesel unless investigations show that fuel is being misrepresented as Brazilian when it is actually from argieland. If that happens, the ADD might well be applied to Brazil as well.
Oct 19th, 2013 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 Poor child. You think Uruguay is going to take a hit for argieland? Okay then. Let argieland export its bio-diesel via Uruguay. You have no idea what information sources are available. And there's a simple expedient. Slap the same ADD on Uruguay and let it prove that bio-diesel it exports is not from argieland. Keep an eye on things. Uruguay is desperate for foreign trade. It will drop argieland like a shot. You should move to argieland and REALLY get involved!
conq
Oct 19th, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should really check your diet, for even if it is indeed coming out as crap again, it seems your body fails to point in in the proper direction...
I hope the brilliant Rg scientists ( ha) can figure out how to use bio-fuel to heat houses and stoves.
Oct 19th, 2013 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The perfect storm is a brewin'
A scientist to use bio-fuel for heating?
Oct 19th, 2013 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What else do you need yanqui, a surgeon to take the temperature?
Really?! Wow please enlighten me, how are they keeping BA warm?
Oct 20th, 2013 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Would that be right through the nat gas lines?
I'd think the rest of the world would like to know.
yanqui
Oct 20th, 2013 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Regardless if you use district heating or more direct boiler heating, you can use bio-fuel.
I'm quite positive that if they have gas turbines, they also have common boilers...
And as for your question how they keep BA warm, well, I guess they do what they have always done...
Or are you having another of your visions?
@CabezaDura
Oct 20th, 2013 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I like when you talk about things that you don’t have any clue about it.
Europe have been always protectionist and the simple problem is that Bio-diesel producer in Spain, etc. are not efficient to produce the final product for many different reasons like size and the lack of direct access to soy.
So the biodiesel producer like in Spain facing bankruptcy started to complain at government for compensation, etc. as Spain is already financially f@cked up the use of the old treat is pretty helpful.
They fill a complain for antidumping even is they are wrong this will take 2, 3 or 4 years to be resolved until then they have created an artificial market to the inefficient Spanish producer and put away external efficient competition.
That’s it and always will be like this.
Because protectionist is a tool like a ladder that countries use to reach to the top. One high enough they desperately try to bring down the ladder to avoid other countries to reach the same level.
If I will be Argentina I will be calling Indonesia to ban the sale of soy to EU producers right now.
That will broke Biodiesel producer. Just a thought to start with.
BTW CabezaDura I have some coloured mirrors from Germany do you want to buy some of exchange for Oil?
Ha ha
Isn't this burning of food for fuel supposed to be helping to save the planet? What is the “carbon footprint” of exporting it halfway round the world?
Oct 20th, 2013 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0In Indonesia, deforestation is the result of bio-fuel crops.
@11 Trouble with your comment is that what I said used to be part of my job. This will be outside your experience. Having a job. A bit like having a brain. Something else you'll never manage. Still, insults are the usual refuge of the ignorant and incompetent.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@15 You mean friction. Shagging each other. And you when you visit.
@16 According to available research material, 85% of biodiesel production comes from the European Union. You'll be pleased to hear that biodiesel can be produced using rapeseed, Pongamia, field pennycress, jatropha, mustard, jojoba, flax, sunflower, palm oil, coconut, hemp, waste vegetable oil, tallow, lard, yellow grease, chicken fat, algae and sewage sludge. Don't need your soy. Perhaps you should eat it.
Can't “break” anyone. Except yourselves. See how little you actually “know”!
Ha ha ha ha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo
Oct 20th, 2013 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0conq
Oct 20th, 2013 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Still, insults are the usual refuge of the ignorant and incompetent”
... and no one insults more than you.
Now
We knew you were ignorant.
But this new found incompetence of yours, is that for the CV?
@18 - Add to that the fish morts, the bits leftover after filleting, or those fish left in fishing boat tanks which are beyond their processing date. These are some of the methods being investigated in Shetland.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0On a more macabre note you can use the same processes for dead human bodies too. We considered making it an alternative method of disposal but the politicians felt it would cause outrage. We're running out of grave yard space so we felt some people would go for it. A further complication was that we couldn't work out who would want to operate the machinery.
Talking about CV's...
Oct 20th, 2013 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0@21 Sheltie
Oct 20th, 2013 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can think of a certain recently departed Nazi who might have benefited from your disposal system.
What do reckon Stevie?
I fully agree, but I'm in doubt if shit has descent calorific value...
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 8 Stevie
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0“What Chris, you thought being an Uruguayo was all about having a go at Argentina? No, mate, that's divide and conquer.”
I did not post anything of the sort, however I did think that being Uruguayo was about supporting Uruguay against her enemies which TMBOA and to a large extent the “argie” population of inbred morons are.
As to divide and conquer, isn’t that exactly what TMBOA is attempting to do to this country? Just to remind you, “this country” is Uruguay, the country you supposedly would die for.
Oh! Don’t you have to BE here for that? I am here supporting this country through my taxes and the training of young people without charge.
Chris
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I would die for no country, old man, I'm not that stupid.
I'd live for many of them, as I would die defending my right to live as I please.
But dying for a country? No...
Being Uruguayo is to share some values within a culture that the majority appreciates as common. This changes with time, and people with it.
But one thing is for sure, we have always shared Destiny with our sister nation, and in times of needs, we have always walked the dirty roads together.
The Northern hemisphere is full of fancy Words, but when it actually comes to it, they have never saved anyone but themselves.
And now my enemy point me my supposed enemy out...
15. District Heating in BA!
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you think Rgs are as smart and efficient as Norwegians?
They can't even keep trains from crashing on a monthly basis.
Why is it that stupid SAs think just because something is theoretically possible it is practical?
“Regardless if you use...”
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina doesn't NEED district heating, yanqui.
The Norweigans do...
And we don't think everything theoretically possible is so even put at practice.
I mean, there is a slight possibility of you being something that reminds of inteligent.
In theory...
So you think they should live with gas space heaters? Lots of them do but alas they're too dumb to open windows so a lot of them asphyxiate their whole families.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mayhap that is what happened to you?
yanqui
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Try a common boiler.
A normal, common, low-tech boiler...
@28 - Would it be worth pointing out here that perhaps you do? District heating systems working in reverse become district cooling systems. Beyond the obvious benefits it would dramatically reduce electricity consumption.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 030. A common boiler? Do they have them in BA?
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again mayhap you've never been there.
I can't think of one condo building that had one, and if they had them in public buildings they haven't maintained them so they don't work any longer. All you see everywhere are gas and electric space heaters.
Psst..that is why there are so many black outs in BA when it is hot or cold
District heating systems working in reverse...
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sheltie, DH systems use the hot steam/Water from a turbine. The DH Water is used to cool in the condensator after the turbine.
I just can't see how you would reverse that process and get a fridge out of it...
@ 31 Sheltie
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mmmm, that’s an “interesting” concept, heating systems working “in reverse”!
Which book of thermodynamics did that little gem come out of?
Stevie is talking about low tech boilers for common heating, just how do they cool? Somebody throws ice cubes in the firebox perhaps?
And I love your comment “Beyond the obvious benefits it would dramatically reduce electricity consumption.”.
ANYTHING that uses power to heat OR cool does not SAVE energy, it uses it.
You haven’t been going to the same school Stevie went to for thermodynamics have you?
Comment removed by the editor.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chris
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Come on mate, we already did that fridge thing, and your solution in oder not to loose face was to brake your fridge so you would have some energy loss in the closed Circuit...
Not my fault...
;)
@31 - Try http://c40.org/media/case_studies/eco-efficient-heating-and-cooling-in-helsinki-saves-27-mt-co2-every-year
Oct 20th, 2013 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We use both district heating in Shetland and we're looking into district cooling - both are in widespread use in Scandinavia.
Sheltie, those two are seperated systems, but you are right, it Works.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Especially in Scandinavia where cooling in Winter is not that energy consuming.
But in Argentina, there is little need for DH, although DC could be used. I'm thinking in the colder regions...
Cheers for the link, interesting read.
Especially in Scandinavia where cooling in Winter is not that energy consuming.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that your educated opinion?
bahahahaha
Thinking an Rg can engineer, build and maintain something like this is fanciful. They are too dumb, lazy and corrupt. If they can't keep lights on for a month steady in their only large city how in the world do you think they could manage this type of project.
Good gracious.
yanqui
Oct 20th, 2013 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You fool, you don't cool houses during Winter, you use the cool Water for Machinery.
Maybe you should just stop interfering in conversations where you have no clue whatsoever what the topic is about, that would save us time and you face...
Er, I'm not the one who said it.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, What do you do on the oil rigs? Not anything technical I presume. Turn a wrench I guess.
Stevie, while it probably seems ludicrous, it may surprise you to learn that there is a demand for cooling in far northern climates (including Shetland) in the winter. The problem we have is driving wind and snow - it makes standard methods of ventilation a non-starter i.e. opening windows, vents, grilles etc. Ventilation tied to heat recovery is also used. Add low-e glass and high insulation and you get very warm houses and buildings with little heat loss, so coupled with a low sun they can quickly overheat.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So systems that can be linked to a combined central controller which can operate on a split basis such ground or air source heat pumps, or district heating and cooling options are becoming popular.
I appreciate your needs and solutions, but DH is a separated system from DC. It's not that you get one reversing the other.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But I agree, that would be great. A heating/cooling device that Works like an air conditioning...
I mentioned this last year.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0AP Findings on Agrochemical Use in Argentina
The agrochemicals that have powered a global commodities boom have been ruled safe if used properly by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and many other regulators. But an Associated Press investigation in Argentina found that pesticides are used haphazardly and in ways unanticipated by regulatory science, and specifically banned by law. Doctors say people are getting sick. The findings include:
OVERUSE OF CHEMICALS:
The Monsanto Co. promised adopting genetically modified crops would enable faster, cheaper production with fewer chemicals. True at first, but the overall chemical burden has grown eightfold since 1990 in Argentina as farmers blend in more toxic chemicals to kill resistant weeds and squeeze in up to three harvests a year. An AP analysis shows Argentine farmers now use twice as much pesticide per acre as their U.S. counterparts.
OUT OF CONTROL:
Pesticides applied in windy conditions drift into buildings and contaminate drinking water; farmworkers mix poisons without supervision, in populated areas and with no protective gear; people store water in used pesticide containers that are resold rather than destroyed. A presidential commission was formed to study the health impacts of these violations, but it hasn't met in three years. Despite soaring complaints, Argentina's federal government has never cited a single agrochemical user since then for failing to follow national spraying regulations.
DECLINING HEALTH:
Cancer rates in provincial towns surrounded by soy farming are 2 to 4 times higher than the national average. Rates of birth defects in another province quadrupled since 1996, when Argentines adopted America's “no-till” farming method using genetically modified seeds and companion pesticides. A study of children in one neighborhood surrounded by industrial agriculture found 80 percent carry pesticides in their blood
42
Oct 20th, 2013 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why would you not just add trickle vents to the windows and sun blinds for when there is a low sun in winter?
If the house is well insulated the windows are going to be the only source of heat absorption...
@42
Oct 20th, 2013 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We do, but horizontal rain and snow will overcome the trickle vents and high winds will create a good howl. Blinds are certainly used but as with all things some people object to cutting out daylight because it makes them “sad” considering that in the middle of winter we see so little daylight.
@20 An important consideration is to recognise a fuckwit when one is encountered. You, Stevie, are a fuckwit. Anything that doesn't suit you is denied. And you indulge your 2-month old constipation at the same time. Go on, girlie, strain. And I don't need a CV. Only wankers and faggots need CVs. I've never had one in my entire life. I achieved an income more than three times that of a Uruguayo tosser, such as yourself, without a CV. Here's a clue. By your standards, I'm rich, I don't work and I have more money to come. In the near future, I will have more than 2 million Uruguayan pesos in CASH. Plus more than 7 million Uruguayan pesos in property. Then there's the value of my possessions. Another 2 million pesos? 11 million pesos without a CV. I guess I should have tried. How much are you worth, Stevie? 100 pesos? On a good day? But you've lost it, haven't you? Desperately trying to stay in the “conversation”! Can you tell the difference between “descent” and “decent”? Of course not. Being an argie supporter, “decent” isn't in your vocabulary.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26 Shame for you. Anyone who isn't prepared to die for their country, in the last extremity, is a piece of shit. Never mind, we can find something for you to die for. Possibly unwillingly. But, being Uruguayo is being poor. I reckon I could buy your “country”. But there is one thing about which you are right. The Northern Hemisphere should never have saved the Southern Hemisphere. Is there anything in the Southern Hemisphere worth having?
@30 Plenty of common boilers around. CFK. Alicia K. Maximo K.
@33 A good use for district heating systems is broiling pieces of Uruguayan shit. Smelly little Stevie.
@43 Half-educated Stevie. Which parts of your “education” are missing? Biology? Chemistry? Geology? History?
Of course, all South Americans are sub-normal twats.
@36 Stevie
Oct 20th, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get over it, because you didn’t get it.
@37 Sheltie
Reading down the blather on that link I was intrigued to find out WHAT energy source they DID use for DH. Did you read it, do you KNOW?
“While the main sources of CHP production in Helsinki are gas and coal.” HA, HA, HA.
Followed by the killer statement:
“Future plans will shift generation further away from fossil fuels to renewable sources.” THEY ARE NOT DOING IT YET THEMSELVES!
Don’t you love it when all your dreams are just that: DREAMS?
However Stevie is correct when he says @38 “Sheltie, those two are SEPARATED SYSTEMS, but you are right, it Works.”
Sheltie, you seem keen but you do not understand fundamental physics (in the form of thermodynamics).
When you manage to get a system based on a basic hot water boiler that HEATS and COOLS of the one controller without a compressor, evaporator, etc. AND IT IS USER FRIENDLY let me know and I will fund the manufacture of it and we will be rich! Now that is something to go at!
48
Oct 20th, 2013 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well done....great effing welcome to Sheltie??
Not everybody is an engineer..
The system does indeed work...but would be more suitable to a higher industrialised area...
A bit more advice may have been better....
Ground heat pump...solar panels...wind turbine combination...(Windy Shetland)
Solar panels running the heat pump raising the temperature from 11 to 15 degrees...15 degrees sufficient for underfloor heating..
Solar panels and wind turbine putting electricity back into the grid in summer or supplementing hot/cold air conditioning unit...
....now don't try and tell me it doesn't work....because I know it does!
....Stop taking the P
A_voice
Oct 20th, 2013 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem with having solar panels running heat pumps is that they give the least output when you most need then, which is during the winter months...
And yes, your system could work, but you forgot the district heating/cooling part, which was the condition...
Meanwhile Jaguar Land Rover are negotiating to build a new Factory in Brazil in addition to the new one in China. No doubt the vehicles will run on bio ethanol and those with $ in RGland will be queuing up to buy them.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 050
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes you are right.....but when you don't need them they are generating electricity for the grid....I don't know how it works where you are but Penelec my supplier fits bi-directional meters that measure the flow of electricity in both directions.
In addition to reimbursement for excess electricity generation, system owners earn and retain rights to alternative energy credits.
What is really funny is there is a tax rebate for 35% of the total installation cost in the States....but I don't pay US tax.....damn!
What's worse is trying to explain this system to most American plumbers...they are still struggling with the concept of Combi and System boilers...I kid you not!
So if your property is energy efficient the system can cost you nothing more than the installation costs...quite expensive at the moment but should become cheaper.
The key is the lower temperatures with underfloor heating and the marginal increase from ground heat...
I know it has nothing to do with the district heating but I thought it may interest Sheltie....instead of just trying to make a fool of him.
...which I know you didn't...but someone did...
I see you have to be very precise to post here...my comments were off the cuff and I hadn't taken much time to proof them. Some people here are far too keen to score points or are just condescending. Sort of girlie types who like handbags at dawn.
Oct 20th, 2013 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ChrisR - You seem like a bit of a prick but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps you're just young and stupid. Where do I mention it's the same system? Others put words in my mouth there I think. My only point was that district systems don't have to only heat and in hot climes district cooling is used, as in Dubai.
Most systems up here use waste heat from power stations, incinerators or biomass. The controllers I was referring to are those like Trend 963 building management systems (used in commercial buildings) which shut off and/or auto start plant, valves etc. dependent upon programmed environmental criteria.
He's a good old man, Sheltie.
Oct 21st, 2013 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0A bit grumpy and he spits a lot.
But I'm sure there's a lot of good in him...
As to your DH systems, using waste heat is common practice, as it would be far to expensive to fire up only for the sake of the DH. Interesting is though, all the restrictions there are in certain nations about profitting on DH, making it less... adquirible (acquirable?) for the consumer, instead of offering it cheaper...
You can obtain heating and cooling in the same process by using gas/vapor compression method.
Oct 21st, 2013 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is the principle used in refrigerators, air conditioning systems, etc.
Some turbines to produce energy working in a CCP (Circle Combined Process) can archives the goal by producing heat for heating from steam, cooling from steam while producing electricity all at the same time.
@ yankeeboy
“Do you think Rgs are as smart and efficient as Norwegians?”
I don’t know like the Norwegians but in Argentina exist “District Heating” since the ’80 in Neuquen.
By using Geothermal energy.
Dany
Oct 21st, 2013 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0A fridge driven by a turbine...
Yes, that would do it, but personally I never seen it before.
Heating/cooling in the same system is normal, what isn't normal is using it across wide areas, as with DH/DC...
@ 50 Stevie
Oct 21st, 2013 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for that Stevie, this is the trouble when you get people with no understanding of the science putting systems together on the basis of it’s a “good” idea.
The thing is these people are taking the piss as far as I am concerned: they have no comprehension of whole life costs. I am pleased to inform you that the first windmill farm is being REMOVED from a site in the UK because it didn’t even get up to 7% of its rated capacity and that was from one of the largest manufacturers. Obviously the con has been exposed and I expect many other sites to follow in the next few years.
@ 53 Sheltie
Oh dear! You haven’t bothered checking ANYTHING on MP have you! I am 67 YO and a retired professional electrical mechanical engineer who has worked around the world in his own consultancy as well as being the technical director of one of the companies of GEC Co. Ltd. I make no apologies for gently swatting “stupid” people like you who have not bothered to even check the facts of links they put up as some magical solution. I live in Uruguay.
It is people like you and A_Voice who fall for the IPPC codswallop and fawn over the windmill makers. As a scientist I need thought out statements before I treat them with the respect they deserve. If you don’t know or are unsure SAY SO and ask questions. If I can I will help you or suggest a course of action you can take for you to discover for yourself what the answer may be.
Stevie and I get on together because he is an engineer and THINKS before he posts. He does have the usual blind spot with windmills but the penny will drop soon when the new farms come online in Uruguay.
Don’t get blinded by the Trend 963, you can make a bespoke one using a PC and proprietary programmable controllers located on the devices you wish to control. It’s not difficult to do if you have a reasonable knowledge of PC’s. Using a LAN you can even site the PC wherever you like and control the building around the village.
The Shetlands eh, beautiful place. Spent 4 years there on the island of Unst and I don't recall there being much need to cool the place down! I certainly won't forget the driving wind and snow though especially after having pieces of equipment picked up and blown over the cliff!
Oct 21st, 2013 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0ChrisR - You can be 67 and still be a prick. I don't doubt your credentials, but I do object to being lambasted for something I didn't say or intend to mean. Who's labeling who in advance here?
Oct 21st, 2013 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People like me who fawn over windmills? I made no such claim, and on the contrary I agree with you on that one. I bet the whole life cycle costing models used for them didn't predict that their blades would get ripped off because supposedly ideal places like Shetland actually have too much wind. In the early days that did happen to a few remote school sites here.
I also have issues with the whole biomass issue, but the fact is RHI makes them attractive for the moment.
Moving beyond our initial broadsides, I mentioned the Trend 963 purely because that's what we use in Shetland's public buildings, care homes and schools (around 110 in total), mainly because some are so remote it's the best way to check them. They all link back to a central controller via WAN (part fibre, part wireless) to Lerwick. This allows us to be more focused in who and what we send when faults occur or repairs are needed, bearing in mind some remote isles are a pain to get to. We did explore other ways of doing it but at the end of the day the Trend system did the job and fitted into our existing infrastructure well.
Ripped off blades on wind turbines was a infant disease and not an issue on wind turbines of today.
Oct 21st, 2013 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And Chris, would it not make sense to stop future projects before deconstructing old ones, should the issue lay in the efficiency of the devices?
@ 59 Sheltie
Oct 21st, 2013 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So we call it a draw then?
I did get the impression you were a private individual but it seems you are an employee of the local authority? The telemetry solution is really what I was aiming at when I thought your problem was localised but obviously this is the way to go if you are an “authority”, at least you can sue the manufacturers if any of the devices fail.
@ 60 Stevie
Fair point but in the UK all wind farms are private and the windmill manufacturer in this case had entered into a five year minimum period to “prove” that their mill and original survey comes up with the goods. After this period the manufacturer can be forced to remove and reinstate the land if the savings are not made. The farmer was totally dismayed with the windmill farm and wanted his land back.
If it were left to me there would be a total ban on any more “farms” because these things have more problems than enough once they are built. Uruguay cannot keep the ones running just north of Ruta 12; every time I go past them on my motorbike they are either stopped because of high winds or not operating due to the lack of wind.
There are also serious problems with the disc brakes being unable to hold the blades still in high winds resulting in runaways, VT fires and blade failures (still) due to the over speed. At that point the brakes also set on fire as well: good eh?
In Uruguay we are paying through the nose for the power (such as it is) coming out of these things because the government went for the most expensive option: all-in pricing. The makers know damn well what the REAL costs are and amortise them over the actual output. Sounds good having no capital costs but the unit prices are sky high. Still Pepe won’t be in “power” much longer.
Well Chris, the price of fossil fuels is damn higher, if you ask me.
Oct 21st, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The drilling is becoming desperate and dirty oil is today a great idea...
@ 62 Stevie
Oct 21st, 2013 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure you are aware (because I am) that the one good thing that UTE does have is their almost new Wärtsilä diesel generator sets using heavy oil ala ship oil.
These MUST be cheaper to run, even with the 50% tax Pepe puts on fuel oils, than the windmills given they produce to the rated load (not 8% of it) for 24 hours 365 days of the year if need be.
Never lose sight of the fact something has to replace the feeble output from the windmills and I would imagine it's these sets. Very impressive they are too.
Heavy fuel is the dirtiest, most contaminating oil that one can get hold of.
Oct 21st, 2013 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But yes, I think it was some 10 engines installed by Wärtsilä.
But is the output really of your liking? I remember reading about numbers below 100 MW...
Don't worry mates if USAMEX default will be plenty of dollars to be burned to heat the whole world and the best part is that would be green energy.
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 065. The U$ is getting more and more expensive in Argentina.
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Businessmen are planning on a gov't rate of 10/1 in 2014.
Can I make you dance for a U$20?
I bet so.
Would that be a brand new 3D dollar bill?
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One can not deny that the dollar has taken a new dimension...
Yes but you have to dance longer.
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, Where are you Sweden? How are the race riots going? Since you are dark(ish) skinned/hair do you participate also?
Race riots in Sweden?
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are those going to save you, you mean???
@ 64 Stevie
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Heavy fuel is the dirtiest, most contaminating oil that one can get hold of.”
Absolutely correct but it is readily available at the lowest of prices, these engines do not wear significantly by using it, but they are BIG (but not as big as BIG windmills - see later)
“But yes, I think it was some 10 engines installed by Wärtsilä. But is the output really of your liking? I remember reading about numbers below 100 MW...”
The W34SG engines which were installed in a line of 10 engine / alternator sets can produce 117 MW EACH, at 43 - 45% fuel efficiency under normal operating conditions 24/365 per year (NOT downrated or load balanced to improve the numbers).
Given that most windmills average 8% of their rated output per year, try matching 117MW x 10 with any number of windmills. The greatest utilisation wind farm in Europe managed 13%. The North American Windpower magazine which puffs Utility grade ‘mills claimed on May 2nd 2013 that “the average power rating of a Utility-scale wind generator is expected to reach 2.4 MW by 2017.”
So, at 13% utilisation (I am being REALLY generous here) you would need 375 (that’s THREE HUNDERED AND SEVENTY FIVE) of these mythical machines (if they manage to make them by 2017) for EACH W34SG alternator set or 3,750 (yes, it’s three THOUSAND and seven hundred and fifty of the mythical machines) to match this ONE installation of 10 gensets.
Can you see why these windmills are a complete waste of time? Think of the real life cost of 3,750 towers, 11,250 blades and the transportation to somewhere the wind MIGHT blow, the installation problems, etc. etc. AND, don't forget that UTE have to maintain an equal load base to take over when the wind stops: this uses fuel all the time.
And you were questioning the 100 MW figure? Oh, come on Stevie!
Chris
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a couple of wind farms.
3 big ones or 6 normal ones.
Of free energy.
For 20 years.
And by the way, the engine you chose to compare with is an SG, as in gas driven.
Those do indeed have a higher output than the ones on HF, hence your 117 MW.
I still think the output is around 80-90 MW.
But still, using your gas turbines, I still go for the free energy, even if the initial cost is indeed higher.
Mother Earth is after all priceless...
Are you living in Sweden? Were you part of the riots?
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you were so worried about spoiling earth shouldn't you renounce your position of turning wrenches in the bitter cold of the North Sea?
Or is it just others that should stop?
idiot
71 Stevie
Oct 22nd, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry about the incorrect reference, that came from the CEO's presentation about their customers!
And why are you still quoting “rated” outputs when on average it's 8% of rating plate in the UK or a one only 13% in Europe?
My deatails still knock the windmills into a cocked hat.
As for saving the earth that is plainly nonsense: try telling that to all the birds that die on the blades:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10146135/Birdwatchers-see-rare-swift-killed-by-wind-turbine.html
BTW how is it “free energy”: if it were free why are we paying the highest cost of electricity in Uruguay?
And the lifespan is not 20 years at the “rated output” the efficiency, as lamentable as it is, drops of by an order of magnitude at ten years and beyond.
Muy, muy mal.
What's the problem?
Oct 24th, 2013 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has the 10,000,000,000 U$S they haven't paid for YPF to compensate the member of the Argentine Biofuel Chamber.
Have those 10 bio. dollars gone astray? where to?
Stevie, as usual, gets it completely wrong: “The best part about this, is that you lot still think we are going to offer you our natural resources cheap”. I also love his briliant idiot remark in ##5, 11 to complement DanySillyburger's in #16.
Argentina could have earned some 25% more, but lacked the brains to do so.
Picking a fight with the entire world might result in a rude awakening for the crazy Kirchner regime. They surely deserve it. Not so much, the Argentine people.
Oct 24th, 2013 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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