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Clarin loses constitutional battle, but Argentine government ordered to treat all media equally
The Argentine Supreme Court on Tuesday after four years of litigation finally declared the constitutionality of the Broadcast Media Law, effective immediately, and which forces the powerful Clarin media consortium to comply with the antimonopoly legislation and sell off many of its operating licenses. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGame over
Oct 30th, 2013 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Clarin Miente lost and has to accept the rule of law like everybody else...
It is not the rule of law, it is censorship.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Avoiding media monopoly isn't censorship.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's common sense.
Who was it that sold them the licences in the first place, when did they sell them and why did it they sell them?
Oct 30th, 2013 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Call me cynical, but could it have had just the slightest connection with Clarins previous support for the other Kirchner?
Seems like a wise and balanced judgement to me,however the government must act equally as stated or it will allow the Clarin group to spend another 4 years in court.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Learn to live with criticism,thats what happens in a democracy!
@golfcronie
Oct 30th, 2013 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is even if you don’t like it.
@toxictaxitrader2
“Learn to live with criticism,thats what happens in a democracy!”
Live with criticism is fine but “Clarin Miente”, “LA Nacion” and others... distort, manipulate, etc any piece of information to impose their will and with disastrous consequences for who are not involved in their crusades.
I will shut down all if I would be the govt. and media owners only will be allowed to have just one single license no more.
This is now law and correct judicial procees has been observed. Clarin will have to abide by this. Interestingly, most of the K supporters were up in arms about the fact that this was accepted by the Supreme Court and saying how corrupt and rightist the judiciary were. Not to be trusted and in the pockets of the media. Is this still the case government supporters or have you suddenly changed your mind? I do hope not and that you have stuck to your original convictions about the Supreme Court and that, as a result, you will reject this ruiling for the very same reason that you would have rejected it had it gone against you.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not 'censorship', it's anti-monopolistic.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Other countries have 'Monopolies Commissions' to avoid too much power resting in too few hands. This is redressing a bad balance created by the Kirchners themselves.
Whether the root cause of this power-play by the CFK government is to cut the legs from under the Clarin conglomerate is a moot point;
it won't stop Clarin outlets from criticising the government - and neither should it, as the judges state explicitly.
This is not an attack on the 'freedom of the press'. Within the law, Clarin has every right and duty to criticise the CFK government and, Lord knows, there is much to criticise!
I think we shall see debate and legal argument about the price at which Clarin group assets are sold off - and to whom.
Then we shall see the group diversifying its holdings into companies that fall outside the media legislation but which are contiguous to it. Clarin may rise, phoenix-like, even stronger than before ... especially following a change of government.
Clarin distorts and manipulates?
Oct 30th, 2013 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't it support CFK during one of her elections?
Was it distorting and manipulating then?
It's the same as Chavez did in Venezuela they have no more opposition news there either.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know how these stupid Rgs think they can have a democracy without a strong independent press.
THe Rgs posters on this board must either be CFK employees or very very stupid people or both.
It is another sad day for Argentina.
It's no wonder when tourists come back from that place they say everyone looks so sad and beat down.
Glad I am gone from there.
The State deciding who owns what is tyrannical, it is just that it is not unconstitutional. Argentina here is not unlike the UK or many other countries which may be democratic but where the State may decide who owns property.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0You either have property rights where private ownership is protected, or you have arbitrary measures that require confiscation or forced disposal.
The real Newspeak/double-think is here “...it favors freedom of expression by impeding concentration in the market”. i.e. your freedom of expression through your property is maintained by the State forcing you to dispose of your property which you had used to speak.
@1, 3 Okay. Now let's wait and see whether AFCSA acts on “all other groups” as required by the court. And whether Clarin is compensated. The argie “government” doesn't have much of a record on compensation. Is it not the case that the argie “government” was, according to the argie “constitution”, supposed to compensate Repsol before it expropriated YPF? Has it paid yet? US$10.5 billion, wasn't it? Can't we just see Clarin holding out until the “government” coughs up? Still, US$1 million isn't much, is it? If you've got it!
Oct 30th, 2013 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6 That's a good idea. It's called “totalitarianism”. “Live with criticism is fine but “Clarin Miente”, “LA Nacion” and others... distort, manipulate, etc any piece of information to impose their will and with disastrous consequences for who are not involved in their crusades”. But that's what the argie “government” does, so how can it be wrong? Let's take a look. Argieland claims it “inherited” the Falkland Islands from Spain. Except that Spain never had sovereignty and “inheritance” isn't valid under international law. 1820 and Jewett was a pirate. Any “claim” invalid. 1829-31. Invalid appointment of Vernet by an unrecognised state. 1832 sends gang of murderers and rapists. 1833 United Provinces “garrison” required to leave. No civilians were required to leave. The Rivero gang murder members of settlement. Now trot off to your argie history books and “government” statements and count the lies.
@10 The majority of argies, wherever they hide, are lemmings. This is a good thing. They will follow each other over the cliff and argieland will no longer be a threat. I estimate that, after the cliff, the argie population will fall to around 16 million. The rest will have “disappeared” through official repression, rioting, civil war and starvation.
Lorenzetti, you bloody coward
Oct 30th, 2013 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Supreme Court has got rid of one monopoly in Clarin.... now let's see it get rid of another monopoly & propaganda machine 'futbol para todos'
Oct 30th, 2013 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 An interesting thought. One of my Argentine friends complains constantly about the TV being monopolised by the government.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nestor was good buddies with the owners of Clarin and was content to issue them with all the licences they wanted. Many a cosy lunch was had. Then they did not support CFK over the farmers dispute and Cristina has been vengeful ever since.
You know, history will show just how divided the camps of Nestor and Cristina really were. That was no harmonious alliance but a constant battle.
@4
Oct 30th, 2013 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, you are right. Kirchner sold them the licenses. It was confirmed by an interview that CFK gave to reporter Rial.
To me it's obvious that all politicians, present and past, have no idea how to run a barbaric country. Let's face it, Argentinians are lawless and they are hard to control and accept change. Argentina, needs new blood, and Macri and Massa could be it. Time will tell.
It might have had to happen sooner or later, but not with a Kirchner in office.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THE FIGHT FOR POWER COTINUES.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, i want to make a retractation, because i didn't have any hope about our court considers the new broadcast law as constitutional, in fact, i have always had a critic repect in relation to the court, due to some of it's ruling dignified our society in reference to human rights and crimes against humanity, beside it has shown clearly that it's independent from the government, but it could never show it is independent from powerful corporations. I'm glad to know that i was wrong, and i celebrate this ruling, especially in a day like today, which is the 30th aniversary of the first presidential election, won by a great president, and a great man like raul alfonsin. He was one of the few presidents, who despite the weakness of his government, he confronted with clarin. beside he had enough bravery in order to judge the members of the criminal junta.
The report is excellent, but i would like to refer some aspects expressed by the court in it's ruling.
I agree absolutly on discussing deeply about official advertisement, but it would be necesary to say that it just represents the 10% of the whole advertisements, beside, beyond it's application, you just need to turn the tv on, and see the huge plurality of opinions in different chanels pro and against c. f. k's government, it's not clarin the only one media group which is anti kirchnerits. I think it's necesary to say this because there are some cretins, who belong to the false independent journalism who have always said that in argentina most media are controlled by the government, however none of them has never criticised the oligopolic concentration of the clarin grup, and all the injuctions it could get in order to not to comply with the new broadcast law, thanks to the entaills it has with the most corporative and reactionary sectors of judicial power.
On the other hand, it's obvious that clarin will continue doing all it can, in order to avoid the new law.
Nestor Kirchner wanted Clarin to be sold out to his mates of Telecom. As Magnetto refused the war started, it was only evidenced in 2008. I don’t have any clues about media laws; I only know that as the AFSCA is controlled by them so therefore the application of this law is going to be biased as at it already is.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So one must ask himself why does the government want to silence the last remnants of free press in the country. They already have Telefe, America, Canal 9, Canal 7, the got their own oligopolies like grupo Spolski, la Corte (who has the transmitting rights of FPT), Vila Manzano . As nobody is investing in this country Clarin’s empire will be sold out for peanuts to the same societies who are friends of the government and no one is going to stop them
The truth is that ever since 2008 if Clarin wouldn’t have being big enough we would of become Venezuela by now.
”...arguing that the principles of the Argentine constitution and the American Convention on Human Rights “have been contradicted”.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0American and human rights IS a contradiction in itself...
What is the outcome of contradicting a contradiction? Anyone?
@CabezaDura
Oct 30th, 2013 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You forgot to include in your list BBC1, BBC2, Channel four, FOXNews, The Economist,CNN and FT.
PPB (Pelotudismo para Bobos) ha ha
@ 20 Stevie
Oct 30th, 2013 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“American and human rights IS a contradiction in itself.”
Stevie is as usual talking through his hat, not knowing the least about the subject - or did he mean “Latin American and human rights IS a contradiction in itself.”
The American Convention on Human Rights, also known as the Pact of San José, is an international human rights instrument. It was adopted by many countries in the Western Hemisphere in San José, Costa Rica, on 22 November 1969. It came into force after Grenada's ratification (the eleventh) 18 July 1978.
The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the Inter-American Court of Human Rights (both part of OAS (the Organization of American States)) are responsible for overseeing compliance with the Convention.
American Convention on Human Rights - text
http://www.oas.org/dil/treaties_B-32_American_Convention_on_Human_Rights.htm
Ah Don Alberto!
Oct 30th, 2013 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That would explain Abu Ghraib, no? Guantanamo? The transportation of non convicted prisoners of... sacking?
Or maybe it simply gives a full detailed explaination on the needs of Water boarding...
Enough with your lists, treaties, conventions and selective agreements.
Because we might not believe in them, but you lot bloody know they are plain wrong. Is there any UN resolution USA has indeed NOT breached?
“You forgot to include in your list BBC1, BBC2, Channel four, FOXNews, The Economist,CNN and FT”
Oct 30th, 2013 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As if the avarage Argentine TVs had access to them and spoke and understood English. LOL
What more muppet?? The only TV which is actually independent is El Trece, TN and Canal 26
Another downward lunge courtesy the hissy fit of TMBOA.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is an answer of course, it is known by the magic number:
“the ninth root of 387420489” and don't forget the final characteristic!
As Veneuela has learnt, government manipulation of media choice does not increase economic performance nor does it change the news. It only changes what the masses know. And if you believe that the government should always control what the masses know then you will naturally see no issue with the government's actions.
Oct 30th, 2013 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is a reason certain media outlets are more popular and widely read/watched and that is because people seek them out.
If the people on here such as Axel Arg, Think, Stevie and Dany Berger were truly representative of the average Argentinean then Clarin would not have such a large market share. No one can force someone to watch or read certain media. There must be a reason people do not seek out pro-government media and seek out Clarin instead. It seems that Axel Arg, Think, Stevie and Dany Berger do not seek out Clarin for any information or news and yet they have a large market share.
So either Axel Arg, Think, Stevie an Dany Berger are not representative of the average Argentinean or there is a massive disconnect regarding what they believe the average Argentinean wants and what they need.
Argentina is still a democracy, though a deeply flawed version, but what happens to democracy when a government attempts to silence as many opposing voices as possible? It becomes less of a democracy. Funny that they are celebrating 30 years since the fall of the last government that was so effective at silencing opposing voices.
Careful what you wish for.
Could the Argentine government be challenged in court for having a monopoly position in media ownership?
Oct 31st, 2013 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dont often agree with Stevie but I think the concentration camp at Guantanamo is a basic contravention of international justice. The tenet is habeas corpus. These prisoners, as terrorists would not understand that concept but under a civilized society of law they are entitled to a trial.
Oct 31st, 2013 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0The present situation just denigrates justice to thier level.
Give them a trial and if the judges so decree send them to the chair or shoot them or whatever but they have to be tried and sentenced first and some of them may even be declared innocent
Agreed, Redpoll.
Oct 31st, 2013 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unless the tenets of justice and humanity are returned to Guantanamo, the US Commander in Chief - *entirely responsible for what happens at that place* - may find himself as 'Guilty as Charged' by a world Nuremberg war trial.
[And don't tell me there is no war; there is a permanent state of war - effected by the USA; only the locations change year by year. How else can today's hegemonic superpower test new generations of weaponry.]
“I will shut down all if I would be the govt. and media owners only will be allowed to have just one single license no more”
Oct 31st, 2013 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like a few Nazis are alive and kicking in RGland! You have to have a licence to publish - roll on the ongoing construction of the police state by a scheming government that will not be interviewed, rules by Tweets and brooks no criticism.
I've said many times the USA needs war to fund new the development of weapons.
Oct 31st, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's crazy cool new stuff coming out.
So proud of my people!
So proud!
Treated Equally: All press must give the government equal praise. Or what is happening to Clarin will happen to you.
Oct 31st, 2013 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ANGLOTINO. CABEZA DURA.
Oct 31st, 2013 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not interesting in being representative of the opinions of the average argentines, i just represent my own opinion, which can coincid or not on anybody else's.
A s i said in my other comment, i agree absolutly on discussing the application of the official advertising, because the government is very criticised for that issue, but it's also important and honest to say that it just represents the 10% of the whole advertisings, so, freedom of press in the country doens't depend mostly on official advertising. Beside, there is a total lie, used by many detractors of kirchnerims, which says that the government controlls most media with the official advertising, however, you just need to turn the tv on, and see the plurality of opinions in different chanels, if some of the argentines who post their opinions here have bad memory, i'll remind them some detaills. Grondona, leuco, and montenegro, who work in canal 26, garcia who works in america 24, laje, etchecopar, gonzales oro, and feiman who work in c5n although it was bought by pro kirchnerist bussines man cristobal lopez, majul and mirtha legrand who work in america 2, beside, we have canal 13 and tn, so, as you can see, in 5 of the most watched chanels in buenos aires you can find journalists who are furious detractors of kirchnerims, ¿can you tell me where is the so soposed controll by the government over the false independent press?.
In relation to the broadcast law, the restrictions of it, aren't much diferent from those which exist in other countries, anyway, since it was sanctioned in 2009, it has just been very partially complied.
On the other hand, the rupture with the clain group was unavoidable, because if cristina didn't brake with it in 2008, she wouldn't be able to take the most important decisions of her government, because they all affected clarin's interests, due to it's not just a powerful newspaper, but a megacorporation, with interests in many sectors.
axel arg
Oct 31st, 2013 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Better make up your mind K troll.... you said in the other thread you dont want me to adress you, however but you do want to adress my anti K comments...?
Of course it’s not that I’m unaware that the words “honesty” and “fairness” is not in your dictionary
Comment removed by the editor.
Oct 31st, 2013 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conqueror
Oct 31st, 2013 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sometimes I wonder if you really have the convictions you express in your posts.
Kill em, shoot em ,reduce thier cities to rubble
Sounds a bit like the totalitarian actions adopted by Stalin and Hitler
There is a concept of justice in your country which has worked with a few hiccups since 1214 and even before that
Any person is entitled to a fair trial
If terrorists are cuaght in flagrante yes there is a justification for a 9mm
But if the security forces are out of control and not subject to judicial processes, what happens? Those forces start enforcing Jeddart Justice = hang them first and try them later
A prime example is the Stalker enquiry into the conduct of the A Special police in Ulster
Yes trials cost a lot but under any system of civilized justice but thats no reason just to liquidate people
CABEZA DURA.
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wrote comment 33 before reading your comment in the other article, which made me ask you not to adress to me again, as long as you insist on keeping the so level of debate that you usually have.
Yes, a level way over yours :) No doubt about that, I agree. No point in talking to you
Nov 02nd, 2013 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good news; after the elections another great victory for Cristina =) If this is what she achieves when she's convalescing, wait till she gets back to work for real!
Nov 08th, 2013 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0#34 Axel a troll?! What a joke, he writes the most conscientious comments on here. You, on the other hand...
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