MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Spain says strict controls at Gibraltar border will remain: “a fight against illegal items and contraband”
Spain’s Minister for European Affairs Iñigo Méndez de Vigo has said Madrid will maintain strict controls at the border. Speaking with the media in Brussels the minister said that the European Commission had endorsed the action it has being taking as in line with EU norms. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesOh! this seems to be serious...
Nov 21st, 2013 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think Britons have to take notes and don not upset the Spanish because could be really dangerous for Ukisntan.
Why what will Spain do now if the UK upsets it more Dany?
Nov 21st, 2013 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0What other options does it have left?
To close the border? Wow it did that for 16 years and what did it gain?
C'mon what exactly did Spain gain!!!!!
Why is it so hard to get answers on here?
“This is the fight against illegal items and contraband.”
Nov 21st, 2013 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, and I thought it was about sovereignty ... silly me.
'The minister said that Spain's .... plan is to make life easier for people'
What was the expression - 'Double-Speak'?
Spain should be addressing the contraband trade from
i. Tangiers (non-EU) across the Straits direct to Spain (EU)
ii. Mellila, Morocco (Spanish EU) to Almeria, Spain (EU)
iii. Ceuta, Morocco (Spanish EU) to Algeciras, Spain (EU)
Ok, there is a bigger unit profit for tobacco transiting through Gibraltar, but it is REAL SMALL BEER compared to these other contraband routes.
#1
Nov 21st, 2013 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You keep using the term UKisntan.
I tried to find this in Google but it gave no results. Likewise I tried a world gazeteer again with no success.
Where is this mythical place? Again, you keep talking about the mythical Malvinas ! So your grasp on geography is piss poor.
I'd be inclined to ignore Dany, he's obviously a racist xenophobe... but I'm intrigued, what is Spain going to do to Gibraltar/UK?
Nov 21st, 2013 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain is in its right to do what it seems correct on the border.The EU has sided with Spain so I can´t see why Gibraltar is jumping up and down like a spoilt brat.........If Gibraltar wants to get on with Spain the first thing they should do is remove the concrete blocks..if not..they should shut up and realise that the law is on Spain´s side.....
Nov 21st, 2013 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, the European Commission is NOT the law. It is an unelected body and it took many weeks for them to respond to the British concerns… so much so that Spain outmanoeuvred the European Commissions examination! As it is an unelected body, the Commission does not do things efficiently as there is no need to seek re-election (the European Commission IS NOT the European Parliament!).
Nov 21st, 2013 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar decides its own future and the rocks were positioned in its own territory… hard luck Spain you cannot tell Gibraltar what to do on its own territory no more than you cannot tell France, Germany or Argentina what to do on their territory!
Maybe it is time for the UK to disrupt Spanish traffic and goods entering the UK and temporarily stop then while the European Commission investigates (if 'investigates' can truly be a word for a Commission investigation … those that are overfed, overpaid and under-worked rarely perform well).
The moment will arrive where the UK has had enough and Spain will face its wrath.
Spain should concentrate on providing jobs and food for its hard pressed people rather than merely putting on this two-bit side show of Gibraltar for their entertainment…
@6
Nov 21st, 2013 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be a complete dick. I have been to Spain 7 times this year with work and they are in a big mess. The government and police are very corrupt. Gibraltar is a perfect target for them to deflect the countries problems and try and and consolidate a nationalistic cause that will detract from the Catalan separatist movement.
The people suffering most are the 8000 Spanish workers in La Linea who's livelihoods are being ruined by their own caring government.
I will also tell you something for nothing, the UK is not going tolerate many more of these sovereignty incursions, we have a very good track record at bringing down hispanic juntas and there is more than one way to crack a nut.
*7 see how ignorant you are!!!!!!! The only way that The UK can disrupt Spanish goods entering the UK is by getting out of the The EU than they can do whatever they wish BUT if you are a member of the EU YOU DO WHAT THE EU SAYS.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FRANCE did what you have mentioned in the 80s and was heavily fined for disrupting the free movement of goods...
and The UK should also concentrate in improving their hard pressed people or do you think you live in fantasy land!!
@6 Continuing your one-???? comedy show, are you? Have you actually read what the European Commission actually said to Spain? Let me help.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”In its letter to Spain, the Commission recommends: 1) to optimise the physical space available on the Spanish side of the crossing point in view of ensuring a greater fluidity of traffic (and in particular to review the traffic organisation on entry into Spain and on exit from Spain in order to increase the number of vehicular lanes for travellers or to make better use of the existing lines); 2) to optimise risk-based profiling: carrying out more targeted checks, based on a refined risk analysis, in order to reduce the large amount of random border controls and 3) to develop the exchange of information with the United Kingdom on tobacco smuggling.“
Spain is being told to quit its ”one lane each way“ operation. To provide examination areas, so that the queues don't stretch. To go to risk profiling instead of stopping everyone. And to co-operate with the UK. Somehow I don't see anyone ”siding” with Spain. As for the concrete blocks. Do you know where they are? They are just off one end of the runway of GIBRALTAR airport. And Gibraltar's territorial waters extend halfway across the Bay of Gibraltar. That's 2 1/2 miles. And the artificial reef is on a line between the breakwater of the Marina Alcaidesa and the end of the runway. Well within Gibraltar waters! They WILL be staying!
@9 Wrong! Ever heard of food safety examinations? Then there's vehicle checks. Here's a good one. Go to examine vehicles and start with the one at the end of the queue. Then, ALL importations are subject to examination for prohibited/restricted goods. Go figure completely unloading every truck. And reloading. Only to be pulled over by the police a mile up the road for an improperly loaded vehicle. Then there's checks on driver hours. Oh, and checks on the fuel in the trucks! Wrong fuel and the truck is off the road. Just a few little goodies!
* 6 The complete dick is you! I do agree that there are police officers in Spain who are corrupt like in any other country but at least they do not go round shooting tourists like your police did with Juan Charles De Menezes who was shot in cold blood on a train in London.Why are the 8000 workers suffering?? All they have to do is wait and cross over like anyone does when they enter any country border control. or like you do when you go to Spain.You wait your turn show your passport and you are through...In my view the ones who are suffering are the Gibraltans who are crossing over into Spain to live in their exclusive mansions and good standard of living in Spain.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*10 cheers conqueror...
@aussie sunshine my dear man you do talk a lot of shit let me just tell you, though unfortunate Juan Charles De Menezes though extremely regrettable was in deed an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT shot and killed just days after The UK was hit with a terrorist attack perhaps if had stopped instead of running from police when requested he might be alive today.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 06 aussie sunshine
Nov 21st, 2013 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respectfully disagree I think they should lay more concrete blocks right across the border 10 meters high, and then farm out all labour and commercial contracts to North Africa. A win-win solution for both parties, and Spain can get on with stewing in its own juice.
12 andy65
My understanding is Juan Charles De Menezes was sitting quietly on the tube when he was summary executed. Regrettably those responsible for his unlawful death have never been made accountable. Although the UK has accepted liability and his family have received compensation,
@11
Nov 21st, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Juan Charles De Menezes had stayed at home he could of got tortured before he was shot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/world/americas/brazilian-officers-will-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder.html?_r=0
@9 ... you really need to brush up on your EU law Sunshine.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Disrupt does not mean ban, nor does it stop free-trade, it merely disrupts it!!!
Did you 'not notice' Spain disrupting trade to/from Gibraltar and getting away with it????????
Just looking on ElPais homepage - theres 1 mention of Gibraltar, in a very small side column half way down the page regarding a drugs bust.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even the localized Andalucian version has sparse mention.
So for those of the opinion that its a great big drama used to cleverly distract the focus of the entire population of Spain from the impending doom of Spains descent into the abyss, think again.
@ 16 No Vestige of an intellect
Nov 21st, 2013 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sop what are Rajoy and Gollum Lite up to then.
You really are a first class idiot.
Who knows what they're up to.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But theres no mention of Gibraltar in the headlines of El Mundo, and precious little on ElPais.
So tell me how a minor issue can be a conspiracy to distract the population.
I await your intelligent answer.
@11 I don't understand your problem. Jean Charles De Menezes didn't stop and surrender when he was told to. He tried to scramble over a barrier. Apparently, he couldn't understand plain English. It's fairly common for ignorant foreigners. His name was “Jean” not “Juan”. And he was a foreigner. And Brazilian. How many more reasons are needed to shoot him? Besides, he was already under surveillance as a likely bomber.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I can see that you're not familiar with the requirements of “employment”. Let's see now. YOU are required to start WORK at 8am. In order to do this, you need to be at the border between midnight and 4am. When you finish work at 4pm, you can cross back and go home between 8pm and midnight. Will you be asking for a job, you dozy git?
See you still have nothing intelligent between your ears.
@16 And somebody reads, what did you call it? El Pais is Spanish. It hasn't been told what to say yet. This is the procedure. European Commission writes to Spain. Spanish “government” says “Manana. After siesta”. Then it goes the rounds of irresponsible “government” departments. However, before it can be read, all the departments have to confirm that they can all find their arses with both hands. It may take several hours. Especially in those Spanish “government” departments that are fond of shoving their fists up their arses. Or anybody's arses. Hours pass in ecstacy. Finally, someone says the fateful words. “Press release”. Consultation. Exchanges of “views”. Referral to Margallo. Wherever he is hiding. Look for a Spanish news “story” next week. Wouldn't it be nice to have a free press?
@18 In order to get an “intelligent answer” you have to be an intelligent person asking an intelligent question. FAILURE. Not “intelligent”. Not a “person”. Not “intelligent”. Will you, one hopes, cease to breathe whilst waiting for an answer?
@ Conqueror (19)
Nov 21st, 2013 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And he was a foreigner. And Brazilian. How many more reasons are needed to shoot him?”
No comment.
HAHAHA
Nov 21st, 2013 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So now according to Vestige, Spain is not even getting propaganda out of this.
In my quest to find a single benefit for Spain, I was at least willing to concede that much.
And now I'm told that it can't even muster that tiny victory.
So now Spain has not gained a single thing.
Not one!!!
So we'll take that as conceding that whats going on is not a mere distraction of some sort.
Nov 21st, 2013 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 019 - ”FAILURE. Not “intelligent”. Not a “person”. Not “intelligent”
lol
@Vestige (16)
Nov 21st, 2013 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am much affraid that you are no up to date as for the latest developments. Picardo has threatened to shoot as terrorist at the Spanish patrol boats in an interview to BBC Radio 4.
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/11/20/gibraltar-and-spain-just-one-shot-from-armed-conflict
The reaction in Spain has been so strong that the Gibraltar authorities have issued a note in which they say that the reports in the British and Spanish media have taken these declarations “out of context”.
Vestige, you now tell me that this is not a distraction to the Spanish population! That is what I thought it was, but supposedly it isn't!
Nov 21st, 2013 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what is it?
Please SOMEONE tell me what Spain has gained?
Because it seems to NOTHING. NOTHING at all. No GAIN. Zip. Nada.
Spain has not gained an iota of anything from the UK or Gibraltar.
14 stick up your junta
Nov 21st, 2013 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which leaflet of the BNP did you get this gem of disinformation from?
God it's incompetence piled upon incompetence in Spain at the moment and it's leaking through onto Mercopress.
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0According to our poor olisipo “Picardo has threatened to shoot as terrorist at the Spanish patrol boats in an interview to BBC Radio 4”.
It is hardly surprising when he is continually bombarded by the propaganda from his inept government.
Europa Press (a Spanish news agency) stated that Picardo said the following regarding the Guardia Civil:
“their incursions into BGTW without advance warning and, when coming in from the sun, remaining unidentifiable for those carrying out provisioning of British or American vessels. They could find themselves being shot at as they cannot be identified as a vessels belonging to a friendly power even though the ship (being intercepted by the Guardia Civil) was contravening international law. They could mistake them (the Guardia Civil) for terrorists”.
What was ACTUALLY said to this question “How close are we, do you think, to shots being fired?”:
“Well I certainly hope that we are not close to that, at all, and never will be. I think the point you are alluding to is a point made by Jim Dobbin, MP, who is the chairman of the All Party British Gibraltar Group, who made that reference as a result of Spanish Guardia Civil vessels coming into BGTW, without warning, coming in from the sun so to speak, where they are not visible to those who are carrying out refuelling or replenishment operations to British or American vessels in BGTW and who might them find themselves shot at because they are not identified as the vessel of a friendly nation even though that vessel may be doing something which is contrary to international law and they may be mistaken for terrorists. That is the issue and it’s a security issue that Spain needs to be aware of also.”
Only an incompetent idiot would twist that to saying “Picardo has threatened to shoot as terrorist at the Spanish patrol boats”.
Spain fails to surprise again.
24 - So tell me Anglo, in this conspiracy launched to distract the Spanish public, who came up with the bit where jellybaby Picardo gives the order to drop blocks in the water.
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe he's in on it too.
24 - What has the “”artificial reed“” idea gained for Gibraltar.
Picardo dropped blocks in the territorial waters of Gibraltar and then just got on with life!
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0It wasn't that big a deal and honestly it wasn't difficult or any drama.
Spain couldn't stop them doing it.
Spain can't make them undo it.
And according to you, no one in Spain gives two hoots about it either. Gibraltar at least has an artificial reef to show for all this.
Obviously not even you can think of something Spain has gained by being such a drama queen recently.
C'mon just one itty bitty concrete thing.... you know as in a concrete block dumped in the water perhaps.
@ 19 Conqueror
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0you are completely wrong about the murder of Jean Charles de Menezes.
He was NOT told to stop and he did NOT scramble over a barrier (a plain clothes police officer did).
The Metropolitan Police force was fined £175,000 and ordered to pay £385,000 in costs - why?
What happened: Death of Jean Charles de Menezes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7073125.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7073125.stm
The murderers claimed they had shouted “armed police” but none of the witnesses in the train heard it, and at least one witness thought they were terrorists.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7073125.stm
The whole affair was a horrible mistake made by agitated incompetents who failed to verify the victims identity.
Menezes: The 19 key police failures
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7073125.stm
@ anglotino (26)
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for incompentent idiots, nobody surpasses the many Britis newspapers which published the same version of Picardo's interviews. For instance:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/gibraltar/10461643/Spanish-ships-could-be-mistaken-for-terrorists-and-shot-at-Gibraltar-minister-warns.html
#23 'According to our poor olisipo “Picardo has threatened to shoot as terrorist at the Spanish patrol boats in an interview to BBC Radio 4”.'
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not necessary to shoot them. The Russians have established with the Greenpeace drilling platform incursion, that incarceration and trial is the way to go. The process may be as long as the authorities wish.
......
#27 'Re #24 - What has the “artificial reef” gained for Gibraltar?'
A curtailment of illegal trawling into another country's territorial waters.
[It is, of course, not a reef. Question for the lawyers: 'Does a concrete-block, or a brick, when dropped in the sea, constitute a reef?']
#30
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Was there not a recent case of a jet skier being shot at by the Spanish police?
www.google.co.uk/webhp?source=search_app&gws_rd=cr&ei=yFGPUojYCuir0AWyoYCQDQ#q=gibraltar%2Bjet+skier+shot+at
So, its OK for the Spanish to shoot at British civilians having fun on a jetski, in GIB. waters, but the Spanish are inviolable?
You have a peculiar sense of moral judgement.
@ Clyde 15 (32)
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Besides The Daily Telegraph:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510158/Spanish-ships-entering-Gibraltar-risk-mistaken-terrorists.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510158/Spanish-ships-entering-Gibraltar-risk-mistaken-terrorists.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510158/Spanish-ships-entering-Gibraltar-risk-mistaken-terrorists.html
And Agence France Press, Euro Weekly News, Global Post, etc., etc.
It seems that everybody was mistaken... except you and your infinite wisdom.
As for that jet skier, in the video only you'll only hear one Gibraltarian saying thar he has heard a shot. That is all the evidence of your allegations.
33 olisipo
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what about the cowardly Spaniard on the 50 cal BMG?
Twat.
olisipo
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Repeating something that is correct does not make what you actually said correct.
You clearly said:
“Picardo has threatened to shoot as terrorist at the Spanish patrol boats in an interview to BBC Radio 4”.
You clearly stead something that was untrue.
You then provided the following links:
telegraph.co.uk - conformed to my comment and not yours
dailymail.co.uk - link did not work
standard.co.uk - conformed to my comment and not yours
worldbulletin.net - conformed to my comment and not yours
None of them said that he “threatened to shoot as terrorist at the Spanish patrol boats” just that he “warned”.
Horse's mouth:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hwbqz
or the actual clip
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03hwbqz
A little more research next time mate and you won't look like a fool.
@ ChrisR (34)
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What are you writing about?
@ Anglotino (35)
All the British and French media which I have quoted say the same thing. Picardo threatened with the use of weapons against the Spanish patrol boats. The complete recording shows that this threat was presented quoting the words of a British MP, very well known by his rabid speeches against Spain.The threat is not diminished by that.
Then they are as mistaken as you, because I just listened to it and he said no such thing!
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What threat? there was no bloody threat! Your simply twisting his words to serve your own agenda, a tactic most of us are very familiar with on this forum.
Regardless of who is right or wrong here (and in this case it is much more cloudy than in the Falklands, were the Falklanders should have their rights respected by Argentina: in this situation it is CLEAR Gibraltar is the “Tijuana” of Europe, with lawlesness and contraband rife and the government there doing nothing or in cahoots with the criminals... on the other side Spain does provoke incursions and red tape to people that are clearly likely not involved in criminal activity), that Picardo loon should be an embarrasment to the Anglosphere.
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He has enounced in manifold Vesuvian polemics and vituperative dithyrambs, that he no doubt is a racist, a xenophobe, and an anglo cultural supremacist. And an uncouth, adipose-laden loose cannon (i.e. = raging lunatic) to boot.
He is an utter embarrassment to the so-called Commonwealth.
@38
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is wrong here is that you make such “untruthful” statements such as:-
“it is CLEAR Gibraltar is the “Tijuana” of Europe, with lawlesness and contraband rife and the government there doing nothing or in cahoots with the criminals”.
What lawlessness and contraband ?
LOL, what impudent denial.
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 028 - Ah I see you put no answer to the question regarding a conspiracy.
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol - gained a reef.
... well if we're talking at that level of pettiness then I suppose Spain has gained 20 hours of surveys on the bay.
@ Leiard 39
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“In Gibraltar, smuggling is almost a culture”
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/01/16/smoking-them-out-in-gibraltar/
Gibraltar undermines the UK tax system
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/01/16/smoking-them-out-in-gibraltar/
The only people that are shocked that the UK is seen as a lawless, corrupt, in bed with tax evaders and cheats nation, are the British themselves.
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very good article the second one. But anyone with any basics in geography already knew is: Gibraltar, Bermuda, Virgin Islands, Isle of manx, etc, etc, etc... all tax evaders havens. All BRITISH.
Pirates will be pirates, in the 17th or 21st.
An Argentine calling a Brit corrupt!
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lmao.
That's like Jack the Ripper having a pop at Mother Theresa!
@ 36 olisipo
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What are you writing about?”
Do you not know? I thought you knew everything about the firing incident?
The firing came from a .50 cal Browning Machine Gun being operated by a thug dressed as a Spanish Officer from a semi-rigid boat.
Now you are just a partly informed twat.
So olisip has backed off and is now ignoring his earlier comments about Picardo threatening to shoot Spanish boats as terrorist. Seems he was incapable of independently thinking or verifying something and just went along with all the other sheeple!
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Someone said it so it must be true!
Vestige has now admitted that all Spain has gotten out of all this drama is 20 hours of surveys of the bay. Gibraltar gained a new reef.
And NOW there is supposedly a conspiracy going on….. unsaid as to what it is.
I wonder if Gibraltar is trying to deflect its population away from high growth, being wealthy and having low unemployment and crime?
And Nostrils is making no sense whatsoever. The worse insult he could think of was to compare Gibraltar to a lawlessness part of….. of all places…. a Latin American country! And I have no idea what he listened to but supposedly Picardo is an uncouth, fat, racist, xenophobic anglo cultural supremacist. Hmmm that is what is he is for standing up for his country's rights.
For someone that rants and rave ad nauseum about how much Argentina stands up for its rights and snubs its nose at the world; it is funny that it can only be done by an uncouth, fat, racist, xenophobic cultural supremacist leader.
Which makes CFK what exactly?
Indeed what does it make Nostrils who does the exact same thing himself?
@Chris R (45)
Nov 22nd, 2013 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You don't know about the alleged incident and you are confusing everything. The video shows the jet-skier, Dave Vila, who escapes when a Civil Guard patrol boat of the class “Rodman 101”, with a length of 16 meters, comes near him at 7 pm, June 23. The 0.50 Browning is the machine gun carried by British patrol boats in Gibraltar, like HMS Scimitar or Sabre. Nowhere in the video can be seen a semi-rigid boat.
Now you are a poor ill-informed person.
@38 Tobias
Nov 23rd, 2013 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> Gibraltar is the “Tijuana” of Europe, with lawlesness and contraband rife and the government there doing nothing or in cahoots with the criminal
I must have missed the bit where they've been picking up severed heads at the side of the road in La Linea.
Yo might like to read the article about smuggling posted by olisipo at @42. It shows that smuggling in Gibraltar - these days - is mostly low-level ducking and weaving carried out by the unemployed and not viewed terribly unsympathetically by police on either side of the border. Not only that, but larger scale smuggling was in fact cracked down on by none other than the Gibraltarian government, which confiscated the launches being used. Various other measures have been enacted since, and what is going on now is pretty much what you'd find at any international border where a difference in duty leaves a profit margin.
But don't let that get in the way of your comic hyperbolae,
@ Hans Niesud (48)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, but it was the previous Government of Mr Caruana which confiscated the smugglers' launches. With Mr Picardo, we are again in the situation of 1998. He has just asked the resignation of the leader of the opposition, Daniel Feetham because he has denounced that and has accused him of “playing into the hands of Spain”.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31650
Gibraltar imported last year 170 millions packets of cigarettes, with a population of about 30,000 people.
40
Nov 24th, 2013 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar had 12 millions visits in 2011....I'm sure the Spanish workers buy their mates cheaper cigarettes in Gibraltar....daily...who wouldn't?
What's the allowance 200?.....
....and don't tourists smoke and buy duty free.....to take home....200!
Why doesn't Spain do more to stop the smuggling?
Nov 24th, 2013 - 05:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@49
Nov 24th, 2013 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you follow this thread back, the original contention of Tobias was “> Gibraltar is the “Tijuana” of Europe, with lawlesness and contraband rife and the government there doing nothing or in cahoots with the criminal”
Your link provides yet more info that this isn't the case :
”this current government has identified the problem that exists in certain estates close to the frontier and pledged to act by banning the existing retail of tobacco from Glacis and Laguna Estates.
“A reasonable period of time is being allowed to enable the affected businesses to relocate. This Government, in only two years, has provided unprecedented resources to the Royal Gibraltar Police at sea. This includes two high speed vessels as well as a larger launch. There are more vessels on the way both for police and for Customs,” it said.
It should also be blindingly obvious that it it is not Gibraltarians on the Spanish side of the border who are handling sales and distribution.
But whatever, it's obvious that the smuggling and/or tax issue is just a cover for a more atavistic hatred which you express very fluently.
If one or two cruise ships call in each day - that's a daily 2,000 or more shopping tourists,
Nov 24th, 2013 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0and if Gibraltar is the only 'non-duty, non-EU' stop on their itinerary,
who wouldn't buy a 200 pack to sell-on on return?
Certainly my single malts are mostly bought duty free when out of duty zones
and, when I smoked, my other addictive substances were also.
(53) GeoffWard2
Nov 24th, 2013 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“ If Gibraltar is the only 'non-duty, non-EU' stop on their itinerary, who wouldn't buy a 200 pack to sell-on on return?”
I say...:
Hmmm....
Who wouldn’t ???
Maybe those passengers blissfully unaware that the cruise ship they are on sells Duty Free booze and Duty Free tobacco on their own Duty Free Shops….
Hi Think
Nov 24th, 2013 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's Duty Free and there's the Buying Price.
My visits to Gib. etc have shown me the advantage of buying ashore, but only in the places where the contents are what it says on the bottle.
@ HansNiesund (52)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that all that to have to comment regarding Picardo's attack against Feetham and the exigence of his resignation as leader of the opposition party because of his denunciation of the upsurge in smuggling?
Please don't quote so selectively: “Fast launch activity... into Spain, both in broad daylight and under cover of darkness, with the vessels travelling without lights and at fast speed”.
@ Anglotino (51)
Don't worry. I am sure that the Spanish government will do its utmost to put an end to the unlawful activities coming from the last colony in Europe.
@56
Nov 24th, 2013 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just imagine. Politicians of opposite sides disagree with each other!
And for the rest, I never maintained there is no smuggling, I maintained it is false that the Gibraltar government condones it. Can I take it you accept this now?
No, sir. Since Picardo arrived to his present charge, the captures of smuggled goods from Gibraltar into Spain have increased by sixfold. ONLY the captures. Since January to August 2013, these captures were worth 7.9 million euros
Nov 24th, 2013 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Turnip at (57)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ANY government allowing the importation of 8.000 packages of cigarettes per inhabitant per year is definitely condoning smuggling.....
@58
Nov 24th, 2013 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't you find it just a little odd that the Guardia Civil is capable of taking pot shots at errant jet-skiers, but is seemingly impotent in the face of armadas of cigarette shifting fast launches? Either in the water, or unloading on the beach?
Imagine the propaganda victory if one was actually intercepted in Spanish waters or on Spanish soil. (and it was manned by Gibraltarians).
@59
Cigarettes aren't illegal. Unfortunately.
Turnip at (60)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What has the legality of cigarettes has to do with the fact that Gibraltar is importing 1.000 times more cigarettes that it consumes AND with the fact that those cigarettes are NOT being re-exported legally….?
@61
Nov 24th, 2013 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would this reasoning also imply that a country which is importing 30 times more ephedrine than its legitimate pharmaceutical industry requires, condones the production and export of crystal meth?
http://wikileaks.org/cable/2009/01/09BUENOSAIRES35.html
Turnip at (61)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say....:
“Would this reasoning also imply that a Country which is importing 30 times more ephedrine than its legitimate pharmaceutical industry requires, condones the production and export of crystal meth? ”
I say....:
1) Of course “this reasoning” implies that ANY Country allowing unrestricted & unrequired imports of ANYTHING is condoning smuggling.... That's EXACTLY what I said in my post (59)... Can't you read?
2) The year 2008 illegal ephedrine import in Argentina was about 5 times highher than the legitimate pharmaceutical industry requirements....; not 30 times, as you wrongly state.....
3) That illegal ephedrine import was (as the Wikileaks cable points out) swiftly stopped in 2008 through a pertinent legislation adjustment........... A lot of corrupt heads have rolled since.
@69
Nov 24th, 2013 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That illegal ephedrine importation has now gone up to 30 tons.
But that's not in fact the point I was trying to make. The point is that no government can control 100% the disposition of commodities imported onto ites territory. And given that a commodity may have both illegal and legal uses, no government has the perfect knowledge necessary to ensure that legal supply only goes to legal uses. So simply restricting import is not a viable strategy in any democratic society. This, in my view, applies equally to the Argentine government in the case of ephedrine as it does to the Gibraltarian government in the case of cigarettes. In both cases the governments have attempted interdiction which has not been 100% successful. This is hardly the same thing as condoning the illegitimate use of the commodity in question.
Returning to the Spanish case, the remarkable thing is the Spanish effort at interdiction. As olisipo's links have shown, this seems to be aimed primarily at the unemployed and day workers of La Linea, and the small-time herberts of Gibraltar with a few extra packets stuck up their jumpers. In the meantime we're supposed to believe that armadas of fast boats are landing unimpeded all over the Bay of Algeciras and beyond.
And yet none have been caught.
This would imply either that a) there is no such Armada at all or b) there is such an Armada and the Spanish don't care (for whatever reason) or c) there is such an Armada and neither the Spanish Navy nor the Guardia Civil have ever heard of fast boats of their own, radar, night vision, or beach patrols.
Personally, I think it's probably some combination of the three, but whichever it is, it remains obvious that claims of catastrophic smuggling over the land border, condoned by the Gibraltarian government, are bullshit.
#54
Nov 24th, 2013 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you seen the price of “duty frees” on cruise ships. I don't think they could match those of Gibraltar unless you can quote me comparisons to show otherwise.
My experience of duty frees in UK airports is that they are very little cheaper than a supermarket for alcohol and cigs. For other goods such as sunglasses, cameras and such like things they were dearer.
It is happening all over the EU, where there is a difference in price for a product - people will always try to buy where it is cheapest.
Nov 24th, 2013 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cigarettes and tobacco in Spain are still cheaper than in the UK, for example 10 packs of Amber Leaf:- UK £140, Spain £74 and UK visitors buy and bring them home. The Spanish government is not adverse to this extra tax revenue ! (*1)
Cigarettes and tobacco in Belgium are cheaper than the UK - this is the reason there are a large number of day trips from the UK to Adinkerke(tobacco city).
“Smokers' paradise: French turn to Belgium for cheap cigarettes.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/smokers-paradise-french-turn-to-belgium-for-cheap-cigarettes-1831120.html
”French governments have adopted a more health-conscious approach and have imposed a series of steep tax increases on tobacco. The 6 per cent tax increase earlier this month has increased the price of a packet of 20 Marlboros – the most popular brand in France – to €5.60 (£5.10). This is about £1 a packet cheaper than in Britain. It is about €1 (90p) a packet more than in Belgium and at least €2 a packet more than in other EU nations, such as Spain, Italy and Luxembourg.”
(*1)Tobacco prices Spain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/smokers-paradise-french-turn-to-belgium-for-cheap-cigarettes-1831120.html
Turnip at (64)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say…:
1) ”That illegal ephedrine importation has now gone up to 30 tons.”
2) ”it remains obvious that claims of catastrophic smuggling over the land border, condoned by the Gibraltarian government, are bullshit.”
I say…:
1) ANY link to that information…….. or do we have to take your English word for it...?
2) The only ”OBVIOUS” thing here is those170.000.000 packages of cigarettes disappearing untaxed from Gibraltar into Spain...
Each and every year...
#67
Nov 24th, 2013 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From where do you get this figure of 170 million packages into Spain ?
67 Think
Nov 24th, 2013 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong again with your facts “The only ”OBVIOUS” thing here is those170.000.000 packages of cigarettes disappearing untaxed from Gibraltar into Spain...
Each and every year...”
@67
Nov 24th, 2013 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Try this. http://www.strategycenter.net/docLib/20130227_BacktotheFuture.pdf
2) How many of these packages do you think are being carried through the turnstile at the land border?
Turnip at (70)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a link!
A “Report” produced by yet another Fear Mongering, Right Wing, Counterterrorist, Anticomunist Yankeedoodle Thinkthank.....
A “Report” full of references to local newspaper articles about murders between criminal drug cartels, drug caches seizures and comments from uidentified sources.....
Excuse me asking but................................ Where's the Beef ?
@71
Nov 24th, 2013 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Douglas Farah is an American journalist, author and national security consultant. Farah served as United Press International bureau chief in El Salvador from 1985 to 1987, and a freelance journalist for the Washington Post, Newsweek and other publications until being hired as a staff correspondent for the Washington Post in 1992. While working for the Post, Farah served as bureau chief of Central American and the Caribbean until 1997, international investigative reporter between 1998 and 2000, and of West Africa between 2000 and 2003. He left the Post in 2004, and has since authored two books and served as a contributor to peer reviewed publications such as the Journal for International Affairs and analysis pieces for Foreign Policy and CSIS.”
But that's by the by.
The 'beef' was in my previous post, where I used Argentina as an example that governments don't have total control over the commodities coming into their countries, and cannot therefore necessarily be considered to condone illegal uses that may be made of such commodities.
Are you going to try to refute that one or not?
And returning to the question of cigarette smuggling from Gibraltar, here's some more jerky for you to chew on :
“Gibraltar blamed for plummeting cigarette sales in Spain.
Yet if the statistics presented by the Spanish government are used in the argument, then only 7% of the missing cigarettes could possibly have come through Gibraltar”
http://spanishnewstoday.com/gibraltar-blamed-for-plummeting-cigarette-sales-in-spain_18950-a.html#.UpJWSmR4Y9E
How much of that 7% would you think came over the land border?
Notice that in the reporting the use of the term “cigarettes” or “packs of cigarettes”
Nov 24th, 2013 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain is claiming that 1,200 million less packs of cigarettes will be sold in 2013 and blame this on smuggling.
So the volume of cigarettes imported to Gibraltar is about 140 million packs (2,800 million cigarettes) and the Spanish government claim the have found 139 million cigarettes which is actually less than 7 million packs or 5% of the volume imported to Gibraltar.
@ HansNiesund (64)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Smugglers' fast launchs “in Algeciras and beyond”
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkaBfexpwIE
“And yet none has been caught”
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty3LBfyzoCk
“A small-time herbert of Gibraltar with a few extra packets stuck up their jumpers”. (She tried to hit a Civil Guard with her BMW stashed with cigarettes)
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=30712
@74
Nov 24th, 2013 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Video 1: And this would be a Gibraltarian launch landing cigarettes in Cadiz?
Video 2: whatever it is, it's from 2008.
BMW lady : How many BMW trips 250 cartons at at time do you need to smuggle 170.000.000 packs of cigarettes?
If this is the Spanish response to a major crime wave, it's about time somebody called Sancho Panza.
@ HansNiesund (75)
Nov 24th, 2013 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) You wrote that those fast-launches didn't exist.
2) You wrote that none launch had been caught.
3) You wrote that only “small-time” Gibraltarians take part in the smuggling.
As for the amount of goods, including tobacco, undeclared money for the ghost societies, and other nice things:
http://gbc.gi/news/2831/guardia-civil-says-tobacco-seizure-has-gone-up-6-times-at-gib-border
BTW, if you wish to see what the RN and the Gibraltar Police fast launches do instead of trying to stop this kind of “business”:
http://gbc.gi/news/2831/guardia-civil-says-tobacco-seizure-has-gone-up-6-times-at-gib-border
1) I wrote no such thing
Nov 25th, 2013 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 02) You've got one (claimed) from before the Gibraltarian government confiscation. The amount of cigarettes which you claim is going into Spain from Gibraltar far exceeds what individuals can sneak over the land border. So how exactly are these cigarettes getting in? Where are all the boats? Why has no boat been caught since 2008, apparently?
3) I'n not surprised tobacco seizures at the the border has gone up. On the other hand, I would be surprised if most of it hadn't been confiscated from residents of La Linea. A whole 43 of them in two months, apparently.
I am still waiting to see evidence of a vast criminal conspiracy condoned by the Gibraltarian government. And I am wondering why the Spanish government is so loudly persecuting (mainly) its own citizens engaged in small time ducking and weaving when from its own figures 93% of the tobacco smuggling in Spain has got nothing to do with Gibraltar at all? Where are the big fish in this crime wave?
Your last link doesn't work.
@ 63 Think aka Lunatic
Nov 25th, 2013 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0You wrote at 63 “Turnip at 61”.
You were the turnip at 61! Ha, ha, ha.
You know what talking to yourself is a sign of, don't you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkM6GnxQ3f8
I normally make allowances for 82 YO people but your embittered character has blown that. You could say you are a Turnip to the power 2. That's if you understand powers.
#76
Nov 25th, 2013 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0RN practices gunnery at flag no. 1. Your objection being ?
Back to the jet ski incident. It sure as hell sounds like gunfire to me.
Is the Spanish gunboat not inside Gib.territorial waters ?
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10142278/Spanish-Guardia-Civil-fires-at-a-jet-skier-off-Gibraltar.html
Whom do we believe... the video and the people involved OR YOU who wasn't there and would take any view as long as it was anti UK or Gib. Just to placate you, I agree that the Rodman vessels do not appear to carry .5 ” machine guns but the initial story mentioned plastic baton rounds..
THINK
I am still awaiting verification of the source of your quote of 170 million packages of cigs.imported into Gibraltar as at post #67
@) On November 15, Daniel Feetham, the leader of the opposition in Gibraltar said among other things: “Eye witnesses have reported fast launches activities from East Beach into Spain, both in broadlight and under darkness... without lights and at a fast speed”. Picardo's reaction was to demand is resignation as leader of GSD for “giving ammunition to Spain”. Your comptentuous comment: “Imagine it. Politicians of opposition sides disagree”.
Nov 25th, 2013 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 02) No matter how you manipulate figures and percentages, The smuggling from the last colony in Europe (adding insult to injury) has risen spectacularly since the arrival of Picardo to his post. The use of fast launches has returned, about 15 years after they were confiscated which unchained serious riots and looting by the smugglers and their families in Gibraltar.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSiPU6umye4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEMMO6s2ia4
3) The Gibraltarian “lady” (my brackets) in the BMW was involved in a) trying to hit and run a Spanish policeman when asked to stop her luxury car stashed with tobacco; b) a chase through the streets of La linea before her arrest. A “small-time” smuggler, indeed.
Most of the 'small time crooks' drive BMWs in my neck if the woods in the UK.
Nov 25th, 2013 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its a symbol in their society that the really are ... 'small time crooks'.
#80
Nov 25th, 2013 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you anything to say about Spain's colonies in North Africa or are they OK because they are Spanish?
#82
Nov 25th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I gave Olisipo the lead with my posting at #3
'Spain should be addressing the contraband trade from:
i. Tangiers (non-EU) across the Straits direct to Spain (EU)
ii. Mellila, Morocco (Spanish EU) to Almeria, Spain (EU)
iii. Ceuta, Morocco (Spanish EU) to Algeciras, Spain (EU)
Ok, there is a bigger unit profit for tobacco transiting through Gibraltar, but it is REAL SMALL BEER compared to these other contraband routes.'
... 7%, apparently; the other 93% probably goes direct, through the routes I indicated above.
We have still to see real proof that Gibraltar accounts for as much as 7% of the smuggled tobacco entering Spain.
Nov 25th, 2013 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tobacco sales in Spain in 2013 are down 46% compared to 5 years ago, only 2,671 million packs were sold. So we are looking at a shortfall of 2,500 million packs, so every pack of cigarettes (140 million packs) that enter Gibraltar would have to be smuggled into Spain to give this magic 7%.
The Spanish police claim to have seized under 7 million packs (139 million cigarettes)
@80
Nov 25th, 2013 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So we're supposed to believe that there are 170,000,000 packs of cigarettes going into Spain from Gibraltar every year. This amounts to some 465,000 per day, which would be about about 46575 cartons of 200 every day, just to make the figures simpler.
We've also just learned that a cop-slapping BMW-driving cigarette-smuggling 'lady' can do about 250 cartons per trip, so I make that an average of about 186 BMWs per day, every day of the year including Xmas.
We have also learned that in the last two months, the Border authorities have nicked 48 people, although it is not clear how many of these were cigarette smugglers and how many were motoring and other offences.
So what are the hypotheses here ?
Maybe there are some extremely clever smugglers operating in Gibraltar who can manage to sneak an average of 186 BMW loads through every day right under the noses of the border authorities, with only an average of about 1 per day getting nicked, and indeed only one cop getting slapped. Remarkable.
Or maybe the smugglers aren't so smart at all, it's just that the border authorities are spectacularly incompetent.
Or maybe the figure of 170 million is complete bullshit.
Or maybe the cigarettes are getting through another way. In which case one wonders why there is so much emphasis on interdiction at the border if that's not where the traffic is?
But let's take the last hypothesis, and these supposed eye witness reports of fast launches leaving East Beach. Are we supposed to believe now that the Spanish authorities are so inept they can't catch these boats, when it is even printed in the Gibraltar papers what beach they are leaving from?
It's a conundrum, isn't it? Those of a cynical disposition might be forced to conclude that the whole Gibraltar cigarette smuggling thing is small potatoes which has been seized upon for political purposes, inter alia that of winding up the gullible.
And every link you have posted so far tends to confirm exactly that.
As it seems ti be a monokingual firum I will translate the more relevant data, but first ket me say that, as usual, you have misquoted me. I have never told you that all the cigarettes imports of Gibraltar go into Spain. Oart of it goes, legally or more probably illegally to other countries, except a negligibke amount smoken in the Rock.
Nov 25th, 2013 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The imports in 2009 were 55,200,000 in 2009 and they increased dramaticallu up to 170,000 in 2012. During that period of time, the Spanish Custom Service impounded 194, 560 packs coming from Gibraltar in 2009, 300,401 in 2010, 778.941 in 2012, and 981.082 in 2012. This year about 1,200,00.
The European Commission report asks the UK to “optimize legislation and safeguards in view of contributing to an efficient fight against tobacco smuggling”.
As easy as that.
.........>
Nov 25th, 2013 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So if the figure is 1.2 million, I'm wondering why it is that the Spanish authorities are everywhere reported to have told the European Commission they had seized 139 million from Gibraltar?
Nov 25th, 2013 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Both figures can't be correct. But if it's only 1.2 million, that would surely support the British Government's contention that the border checks are disproportionate and politically motivated. And not only that, but ineffective considering the small proportion of the total involved.
Thanks for your help in thrashing this out.
86
Nov 25th, 2013 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...monokingual firum
... a negligibke amount smoken in the Rock
Haha I was tying to say.....are you a fan of Lewis Carroll?
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Smoken?
http://s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/Alice_Painting_Caterpillarf4pDetail.jpg
@HansNiesund (88)
Nov 25th, 2013 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would you kindly tell me the name of the minister who did that assertion? Your inclination towards the misquotes is very worrying.
@ A_Voice (89)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Smoken
90
Nov 25th, 2013 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0......:-))))
Let me guess how this went.......you typed Smoken into Google to see what I was taking about and the only thing you could find was an Urban....“Slang” entry for it.....
Am I right?
Comments must be in English. Thank you.
Comments must be in Urban Dictionary slang. Thank you.
.....a negligible amount Smoked in the Rock....:-)
......“It's English Jim....but not as we know it”.....
@91 A_Voice
Nov 26th, 2013 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Try to write it in Spanish, poor old chap. Oh, no, you are monolingual. What a pity.
@90
Nov 26th, 2013 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I believe the figures originally not from a Minister but from the customs chief in La Linea. e.g :
En 2009 Gibraltar importó 55.200.000 cajetillas de tabaco. La mayoría procedente de Suiza, Bélgica, Luxemburgo o Grecia. Solo tres años después la cifra casi se había triplicado hasta alcanzarse los 139 millones y medio de cajetillas. En los tres primeros meses de 2013 ya han entrado 52 millones, es decir, casi lo mismo que en todo 2009. A la Guardia Civil no le salen las cuentas. Lo explicó esta semana durante unas jornadas en Cádiz el jefe de la sección de Aduanas en La Línea, Javier Holgado. “En Gibraltar viven 32.000 personas. Ponle que empiezan a fumar a los 15 años. Te salen 25.000 potenciales fumadores. Súmale los 7.000 trabajadores españoles, los 300.000 cruceristas que tienen al año y los viajeros de los cuatro aviones diarios que llegan a su aeropuerto. Todos se reparten 139 millones de cajetillas. Me falta tabaco por encontrar”, detalla. Su cálculo es que solo el 7% de ese tabaco se queda en la colonia. El resto es carne de contrabando.”
http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2013/04/26/andalucia/1367003981_935053.html
If you look, you'll see the same figure has been widely reported in both the Spanish and English press, including such credible outlets as the BBC and Reuters.
Are you suggesting that Spain should perhaps be issuing a correction?
92
Nov 26th, 2013 - 02:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0You think I'm monolingual based on what?
Would that be based on writing English in an “Only” English forum?
Which language do you think I should use in an English forum?
Which should I choose.... to be more defined and more explicit ...Spanish or English....bearing in mind that English has almost six times as many words as Spanish.
I would say I'm more cunnilingual......;-)
BTW it really is embarrassing to be calling people monolingual when your English is on par with a six year old.....do yourself a favour...get a better grasp or shut the fcuk up......you are beginning to sound like Toby......
You pulled a cunning stunt there with that little bit of Spooneristic advertising, Voice. ;-)
Nov 26th, 2013 - 06:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lol.
Nov 26th, 2013 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ HansNiesund (93)
Nov 26th, 2013 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Trying to hide under the skirts of the “old lady”? As a matter of fact the original report was published by El País on April 27. Four months after, Reuters published (August 18, a.m.) another report which said: “Spain says it seized 139 million illegal CIGARETTES smuggled in from Gibraltar last year”. Four days after this report (August 22, 4.13, am.) issued the same mistake which didn't reflect what the Customs chief at La Línea had said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23784627
You wont find this mistake in thr Spanish media. I wonder if Reuters and the BBC should follow your suggestion about issuing a correction.
#92
Nov 26th, 2013 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0With your supposed command of the English language you obviously have not read the conditions of posting comments here. Look at the heading at the start of this thread under COMMENTS and read the penultimate sentence. I quote “ Comments must be in English. Thank you.” It cannot be plainer than that.
If you wish to comment in Spanish then MercoPress have a version for Spanish speakers that you can use. I checked this a few minutes ago and there seems to be almost unused. Why is this ?
@97
Nov 26th, 2013 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever. It wouldn't be the first time the press got a number.
However, what your La linea guy is reported to have said by El Pais is that Gibraltar imports 139 million packs (cajetillas) of cigarettes, only 7% of which is consumed in Gibraltar and the rest of which is smuggled.
It still remains rather unlikely, in my view and for the reasons that I mentioned earlier, that 93% of 139 million packs are being sneaked through the border, or thrown over the fence, or even being catapulted from the top of the rock by Barbary apes.
So the basic questions remain.
How many cigarettes (or packs) does Spain claim are being smuggled into Spain from Gibraltar?
How much of that amount is being smuggled over the land border?
What proportion of the total cigarette smuggling into Spain does this represent?
@ HansNiesund (99)
Nov 26th, 2013 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please, don't be so disingenous. You are putting questions whose answers you know very well.
1) It is impossible, because of the secrecy which surrounds this illegal activity, to ascertain ”how many cigarettes (or packs) are being smuggled into Spain from Gibraltar”. We only have the figures of the packs which have been impounded by the custom services.
2) Ditto as for the “proportion of the total cigarette smuggling into Spain [that it] represent”.
3) Due to the increased control in the fence, I suppose that “the amount... being smuggled over the land” is very small... by now.
@100
Nov 26th, 2013 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who's being disingenuous? Your customs chief isn't afraid to come up with an estimate that finds its way into the papers, and even if the precise semantics of it may have got garbled by the press, the figure itself goes round the world and it's the one everyone thinks is the truth.
I'm just trying to figure out how accurate this figure is, by applying some basic logic and arithmetic. And the answer I get is, it's bullshit. And by extension, what is going on at the border is bullshit, it is only ostensibly about tobacco smuggling, and it will have only a negligible effect on the amount of illegal tobacco entering Spain and the supposed colossal tax losses to the Spanish Treasury.
But of course, everybody knew that anyway, it's just a matter of tying up a few loose ends.
And then what I'm wondering now is when you're planning to start your campaign against China, where the real quantities come from, as opposed to the unemployed and small time jumper stuffers of La Linea and Gibraltar?
@ HansNiesund (101)
Nov 26th, 2013 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, I see. If the European Commission demands to Britain to engage in the fight against the tobacco smuggling in Gibraltar - bullshit.
If the imports of tobacco in Gibraltar are the triple in 2012 than in 2009 - bullshit.
If the packs of cigarettes smuggled into Spain and impounded by the Spanish Customs pass since 2009 from 194,560 to about 1,200,000 this year - bullshit again.
Yours is an enviable reasoning.
@102
Nov 26th, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're missing the point.
I'm not maintaining there hasn't been smuggling going on.
I'm not even maintaining the smuggling isn't going up (although there is in fact evidence to suggest that isn't http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31794).
What I am maintaining is that :
- the smuggling that is going on isn't nearly as novel or big or unique or damaging as the Spanish claim it to be.
- the Gibraltarian government has taken plenty actions against it.
- the charge of smuggling is merely a pretext for implementing an economic blockade whose main victims aren't even Gibraltarians.
- if the objective is to acquire sovereignity over Gibraltar, it is totally counter-productive, although I can see how it might help satisfy more atavistic urges
Olipso would you agree that all UK holiday makers should be banned from buying cheap cigarettes and tobacco in Spain and taking them back to the UK. (the price they pay includes Spanish government taxes).
Nov 26th, 2013 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(Just a thought from a multi-lingual Brit.)
Sorry, but you are missing the point that the tobacco smuggling has risen exponentially in the last few years, above all since Picardo's arrival to his present post. When Caruana was at the helm (well it is a way of speech, due to the wide powers of the Governor), the smuggling was more or less tolerable. But with Picardo, we are almost at the same level as the situation which was the cause of the confiscation of the fast launches in 1995.
Nov 26th, 2013 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He has received a clear order from Brussels and London, as you can see here. It seems that you have missed it.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=31787
So you blame everything on “Picardo”, forgetting the fact that the Spanish government has hugely increased the taxes on tobacco and also in that same period changed the amount of tobacco that could be taken out out Gibraltar by the local Spanish people (from 10 packs per month to 4).
Nov 26th, 2013 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have not missed the point - the smuggling, wrong as it may be, is being taken out proportion and it just being used as a way of getting at Gibraltar.
A bit like your comment “well it is a way of speech, due to the wide powers of the Governor”
@ Leiard (106)
Nov 26th, 2013 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My post was not for you, but for HansNiesund. I have neglected to put it. I must avow that am not very interested in your opinions. As you say that you are multilingual, I can put it in French: Merci pour votres messages, mais ils ne m'intéressent pas du tout.
107 olisipo
Nov 26th, 2013 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a clever little person you are, you can write in French.
@ 107 olisipo
Nov 26th, 2013 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Embroidering the truth to make your point does exactly the opposite, it shows you for what you are, someone who cannot stand up when your “truth” is challenged.
You are sure you are from Portugal as you behave as if you are an argie from La-Camping-It-Up?
@106
Nov 26th, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0En francais parce que cela m'amuse de temps en autre de parler francais meme si cela m'emmerde de retrouver les accents sur un clavier QWERTY, mais notre fameux multilingue olisipo negilge aussi l'impact de la crise economique en Espagne, et la motivation qu'elle impose aux habitants de l'Andalusie de passer das les limites de la possibilite quelques clopes supplementaires a travers la frontiere gibraltarienne.
What's French for bullshit, again?
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