MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
US defies China's 'air defense identification zone' over disputed islands
US has flown two B-52 bombers over disputed islands in the East China Sea in defiance of new Chinese air defense rules, officials say. China set up its “air defense identification zone” on Saturday insisting that aircraft obey its rules or face “emergency defensive measures”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules3rd World War anybody?
Nov 27th, 2013 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0While a country has a right to declare an ADIZ for defensive purposes, this is another indent ploy by Beijing.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0For all China's strengths when it comes to economic growth, it really is a minnow in international relations and propaganda. Seems they are too used to the sycophantic nature of their own media to realise this.
This is just another chess move regarding the Senkaku Islands and will flop just as much as its South China Seas misadventures. China is hemmed in by other countries and it will never be able to control all approaches to it coastline.
It would be better to woo its neighbours by finding common ground and both compromising instead of the proverbial bull in the china shop manouvers that it always seems to excel at.
Already the US and Japan are ignoring the ADIZ.
If the Chinese cant asses their power in these Islands I expect more incursions in Ladakh and Nothern India. China is seeking regional hegemony and the informal submission of its neighbours.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cristina Kirchner has offered Hector Timerman to mediate between China and Japan over the disputed islands of Shenkaku /Diaoyu .
Nov 27th, 2013 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Timerman immediately claimed the islands for Argentina , stating that in 1452 the islands must have been sighted by a passing Spanish trading ship , even though there is no record of this , and that therefore Argentina “inherited ” them from Spain .
China's foreign ministry issued a terse statement :
“ Do one Baldy , if that gibbering hag wants any more train sets from us , you had better retract that claim ”
The price of US soy bean on the Chicago market went up 300% .
Japan announced that their national sport would now be polo , and named a bull shitting troll called El Diego as the national coach , even though his only experience of horses are the ones that pull his rag and bone cart round Palermo and Las Canitas .
China needs to ask itself: Do Canada and Mexico fear the US?
Nov 27th, 2013 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 05) Condorito
Nov 27th, 2013 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They very much did during the late XIX Century and early XX Century when the US was emerging and rising as a world superpower. Just like China is nowdays.
My bet is we will let Japan and S Korea go nuclear and heavily rearm as a balance to China's ambitions.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China is militarily weak and they really don't have the money, know how or time to get their act together to be a threat anytime soon.
India is none to happy with them either.
Watch the snake Obama, this may be a perfect political time to start a war with China and declare their US bonds null and nationalise their US subsidiaries. I've always thought that would be the way we get out of paying them off.
China is only doing what the likes of Argentina and Spain would like to do, but isn't powerful enough,
Nov 27th, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yet having said that,
even china will fail in its attempt to take and impose what is not hers,
and just as the USA and japan will ignore this illegal and unwarranted move,
we will do the same, china is wrong and she knows it, she is merely testing how far she can go, to how far the west will put up with it, a classic move attempted by many other fallers like japan Italy and Germany,
just a airy thought..
Perhaps they can bring their new aircraft carrier into play: is it actually managing to get out of port without hitting anything yet? Maybe the input of the Brazilian Navy will save the day.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These Marxist commie bastards are setting themselves up for a real fall. They never learn.
@3 CD... India and Pakistan have nukes though. Japan only has Godzilla and Ultraman and while Hello Kitty scares the crap out of me, I wouldn't classify her as an effective deterrent. If the PRC wants to test its blue ocean metal and further build pacific rim blue water “face” the Senaku is the place to do this (though in a legal environment I think they'd loose). Taiwan's bodacious parliamentary girl fights would make me think twice about getting frisky with them though I suspect that there are some very serious face issues w.r.t. having to share a three-way territorial conflict with the ROC. But overall I think Japan seems to have a legal edge over the other parties here since they've shown more stewardship in the post WW2 period where all matters of relevance count.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6 We actually DO have quite a few *active* territorial disagreements with Canada but they are civil and amicably handled like adults.
@6
Nov 27th, 2013 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good point.
10) The ones the Chinese are really challenging is you guys... Of course China can walk over Japan and Taiwan at any given moment if the US wasnt in the region... The same can be said about the Phillipines who is also weary of Chinese expantion. This is the reason why Obama announced the pivot to Asia Pacific last year.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China doesn't sell any weapons at all to India but she does to Pakistan, her rival.
Its really about showing who the new boss is in town not about territory... The other day we discussed on another thread the intentions of Americas planned war on Britain in order to take over and annex Canada, the plans were very much alive to prior WWII.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKSjlM5GsVQ
I also seen somewhere a long time ago in the THC I cant remember what was the documentary name, but it highlighted that America was thinking about another war with Mexico in the early 1900s
War War War.....come on Team USA....better sooner than later...
Nov 27th, 2013 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Provoke a war while you still have a chance of winning it...
What do they call that huge aircraft carrier you have again?...Oh I remember....Japan!
13) The role US here is simply containing China who is the real bully here... The US fails to recognize they are already on a economical war (the war that really matters) with China even if they like it or not . The Chinese have time on their side, they will just keep on increasing the credit the US owes them, buy out their companies and rob their know how by massive cyber attacks on American private corporations and the industrial military complex. China has already begun its shift to a consumer market and is loking for alternative reserves to the US dollar. Its not in China's interest to see the US fall down like a house of cards overnight, but they are doing things properly and are thinking in long term...
Nov 27th, 2013 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 014
Nov 27th, 2013 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see it that way....why would the Chinese be provoking Japan (US puppet)
Everyone knows the US is committed to Japans defence.
China needs to be contained by the rest of the world or where else will they go? Where does China expand to....Everywhere.
It may not be in China's interest to see the US fail ...but war has certainly been profitable for the US in the past...no China no Chinese debt..
Which country is the major future threat to the US...Economically and militarily....
The next military threat to the world will be China ...I reckon
We think china would make a very grave error if she thinks she could expand
Nov 27th, 2013 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Her presents by force,
Being big and powerful is no guarantee to success,
Vietnam proved this with the Americans,
Afghan today, with NATO,
Iraq,
I think the Philippines would give china a bloody nose and huge casualties,
Japan would not be a walk over, neither would South Korea,
I think china will only expand as far as money and influence can buy.
Just my opinion..
.
As I said I believe they are not really intended in provoking Japan, S. Korea etc, but the US. However they want to make their neighbors know who the new boss in the hood is. In fact China strikes so much fear to them that it has achieved that even Myanmar is normalizing relations with the US. And now Iran seems to be going in the same path, but that has to do with yet more complex stuff attached to. So as China over the past decade increased its influence in countries of Africa and Latam, it has now found itself circled in Asia by enemies or at least distrustful rivals.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you over believe the importance of war for the American economy that is just typical antiamerican conspiracy theory. The fact is that China has become into what it is today mostly due because of the US consumer market that buys their crap, the problem is that it first was only toys, then clothes, then electric gadgets, and after on it passed on to tools, light machinery, chemical industry, hardware then software, heavy machinery by then big Chinese private-state controlled companies had emerged and taken on playing world stage and eventually they started buying over America and many other parts of the world before they even knew it themselves.
JMO ......So far nowbody is interested in a nuclear war, however cyberwarfare and missile shields can become game changers overnight and make nuclear deterrents of the super powers obsolete, it will be back to 1945 and be conventional war again
Do you think the Chinese Govt are afraid of a nuclear attack?
Nov 27th, 2013 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you think they care so much about their citizens?
China can afford to lose a lot of their population....saves doing it themselves.
America can't and is afraid of a nuclear attack that's why they keep the ball play in Asia..away from their shores and are investing heavily into shields.
CabezaDura
Nov 27th, 2013 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Chinese have time on their side”
Actually it is the US that has time on its side. China has a shrinking working age cohort and a massively increasing old age cohort. It's demographic breakdown is the same as Japan in 1990 and its median age is about to overtake the US soon.
Add 30 million bare branches into the mix - men who will not only never get married, but considering their surplus, will probably never even know sex with a female unless they pay for it. This group is also expanding still and if someone told you you would never get married and never have kids and perhaps never even have a shag….. you wouldn't feel as invested in the status quo as someone who would.
China will grow old before it grows rich - this is inevitable.
China's one child policy only affects about 35-40% of the population even now and yet childless couples are rapidly increasing and even those that can have more than one are choosing not to. China is (as usual) racing through the develop stages at warp speed as Japan, South Korea and Taiwan have already been there and are now set for a declining population.
So China will be big and economically powerful, but it is will not be the preeminent power in the world. A world power, yes, but only along with the US, EU and perhaps India (though that is doubtful too).
There is a reason that China owns so many US dollars and US debt, because it suited its economic development model by keeping its currency low to bolster the mercantilist model. If it attempt to damage the US by releasing this too quickly it will devastate its own economy. It would price itself out of its markets almost instantly as there is nothing produced there that can't be produced elsewhere and even those markets left would be devastated and unable to purchase even if they wanted to.
China is part of 'the system' now and has to abide by certain rules. It's days of being a maverick are slowly receding.
I dont think the average age factor is that important when they work like hell during their entire lives.. Plus you are thinking this in western terms, 80% of your post is...That means nothing into the grand picture of things I once met a Malasian Muslim guy who was a virgin in his 30s and said that wanking is like “killing your babies”. It didnt stop him working like hell all day long.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yes perhaps China has too many people to feed still
You must accept that Chinese have values and a religion of their own and its their own country.
I wonder if you can tell me who is willing to have China abide by the rules in your world if not even the Americans and the Europeans cant....
Just watch from 20:40 this documentary and you will realize how scared the americans are of the Chinese creditors and you will understand you have a mute point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqXAkE-54NU
china could have a great economy but it´s not a great country. That´s the difference between the occidental superpowers and them. At the event of any clash, the chinese won´t prevail.
Nov 27th, 2013 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All the Chinese have to to is sell those Bank bonds they have and watch how quickly we begin to grab our nuts........
Nov 28th, 2013 - 01:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually CabezaDura, median age and not average age is extremely important. It indicates exactly half of the population is older than a certain age and half is younger. It show how a country is ageing and is indicative of a falling birthrate and/or a burgeoning aged cohort.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Demographics is destiny. Demographic trends cannot just be reversed when they cause problems. They take a full generation to rectify.
Demographics is not a “western” idea or issue and 80% of my post was not “western” orientated. You have an extremely simplistic understanding of China and it shows through every time you talk about it
Go away and do some research and then you might be able to discuss China.
The last Chinese census showed that many projections regarding population had been overly optimistic. China has a habit of doing things bigger and faster than others so it will be interesting if it does the same with population.
When estimating future demographic trends, it pays to look at all age cohorts. And that is the most worrying one for China. According to he last census, the 0-14 cohort has suffered a huge collapse in China. This now accounts for a massive 6.29% less over the past 10 years. In Japan during the same period the drop was only 1.4%. Indeed, China and Japan's 0‐14 cohort is racing towards parity. Over the past 20 years this cohort has dropped by 5% of the Japanese population but this pales in comparison to the 11% drop as part of the Chinese population.
Also there's the effect of a much higher elderly population and the massive increase in longevity that is occurring. Without a welfare state, the burden of looking after parents and grandparents will fall on those in their prime child-rearing years. But will the increased cost this entails, one couple financially supporting 4 parents and up to 8 grandparents, mean that the cost of a child is even more unaffordable?
Less children and more retirees plus 30 million bare branches in the mix. The world has nothing to fear.
Sure Anglotino you are right...You seem like a very intelligent girl, I would like to have 6 babies with you that indeed will come out to be very smart too... so you can leave me 3 and you can take home 3..... We can both populate Patagonia and the Australian outback ;-)
Nov 28th, 2013 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Problem is chances are the chinese have already bought the deserts of Argentina and Australia over by then.
So what would happen then,
Nov 28th, 2013 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if china called in its debts,.
25) Alaska is handed over to China as a swap for the debt.... I suppose that the US will do so if America wants to keep the US dollar as a respected world currency and Wall Street and corporate America on buisness for some more years ;-)
Nov 28th, 2013 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0mmmm
Nov 28th, 2013 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wonder how many others are in their debt,
just as well then , then don't call em in...
27) I think its of importance to have a balanced trade account with the Chinese, i'm not sure but I think we are slightly negative at the moment. Certain crucial assets and companies of a X country should be guarded from Chinese purchases. China buys raw materials from countries like Argentina and Brazil but pays them with US dollars that the Chinese have in excess due to their trade superpluss with the US. China can screw their providers too if it moved in such a way... So I guess they will continue to buy as much as they can for the time being.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China can't call in USA debt. Bonds are a contract they are not callable.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China will have 300MM people over 65 in a decade. They don't have enough population to support the old people.
They can't grow enough food, they're stealing water from India,they don't have enough fuel. The brand new ghost cities are collapsing.
They will be in revolution soon enough
Don't worry about the USA as long as any of the posters on this board is alive we will be the richest most powerful country in the world.
thanks guys..
Nov 28th, 2013 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 029) We have already discussed this on another article..The problem with you yankeeboy is that you are just looking the other way and hoping that random lightning falls down on the wolf that is about to eat you...
Nov 28th, 2013 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China cant call in the bonds, but it can flood the world with them and the dollars it has in its Central Bank. That will surely cause the Dollar to collapse.
I dont see the age factor as important if they have worked all their lives and contributed to the system, most Chinese who are retired will have modest needs. Not like the Americans or the Scandinavians who will live much longer.
The Chinese only reach 75 years old, men who Anglotino says the problem is that they are a majority but forgets they will live even less than old women. You guys on the other hand are a 33% obese country and with healthcare thats a hell of a lot of money that has to be spent in the sick people of the US (both privately and publicly)
I think if the general good Americans are not self complacent about this, like you are, then you may still have a chance only if you do something about it and drastic like going back to prior Nixon's abandoning the gold anchor of US dollar.
You will never be able to adjust your trade deficit if you have the Brics and others devaluating artificially. If I were Obama I would get the Europeans to back the Euros with Gold too and have it agreed in the WTO with the rest of the countries. Have your country devaluate naturally and that way you will see more exports and less imports over night. But for that you will have to abandom a lot of perks... Forget cheap loans as the engine of your economy and turn it into something real now. OR ELSE SELL THE COUNTRY TO THE CHINESE
@ 31 CabezaDura
Nov 28th, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You mean like TMBOA is doing with your country, Arselicker Mujica is trying with Uruguay, The Bus Driver with Venezuela and seemingly many of the other countries in SA?
Is that what you mean?
“If I were Obama I would get the Europeans to back the Euros with Gold too and have it agreed in the WTO with the rest of the countries.”
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT and getting the yanks to back the dollar with the yellow stuff. Ha, ha, ha.
BUT, just a cotton picking minute! Let us look at the history of YOUR Pesos (Wikipedia)
• From January 1914 to December 1969: pesos moneda nacional
• From January 1970 to May 1983: pesos ley
• From June 1983 to May 1985: peso argentino
• From June 1985 to December 1991: australes
• From January 1992: pesos
The value of one current peso is 10,000,000,000,000 pesos of 1969 (or 1914), and more than 16,700,000,000,000 pesos of 1914 with the U.S. dollar as reference.
WAF hypocrite! I should get your own house in order before lecturing others. And you wonder why I call them arse-wipes? In fact, each sheet of a Kleenex toilet roll in the UK is MORE VALUABLE than argie arsewipes!
Dear me.
31. Wow you have no knowledge about economics or politics.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0None at all.
Is your real name Axel?
32) (?) So what has that got to do with anything that is talked about here ?? In the 1930s you could buy millions of German marks with a Argie arsewipe, which was also stronger than the French frank or the Italian Lira somewhere at the time.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The AR$ is not a world currency... The US$ is. All the Dollars running around the world is actually american debt being swapped around in exchange for goods. The problem for the world is that it will no longer be safe.
A gold standard or any other precious metal or other utility that is limited and accepted world wide and can be used to back up world currencies. It must not lose value over time.
If all the central banks and countries of the world and agreed on returning to it, it would be a good way to make the world economy balanced again.
If your are under deficit, you pay with gold so you lose reserves and as a result of this you devaluate... But as you devaluate it makes it cheaper to export and more expensive to import so your central bank balances back. Or that or a basket of currencies backing one single global currency for international exchanges. Very traumatic indeed but its the cost of living in a lie for over 40 years since the Americans were bum raped and wasting money in Nam...
If not its going to be a perpetual currency war for ever. Nobody will be able to tell the Chinese to adjust their Yuans to the world
Oh God I can't believe CabezaDura keeps crapping on about stuff he has no knowledge off.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Calling me a girl made him seem so knowledgable all of a sudden. Lol.
Pathetic.
I dont know somewhere I think you said you were a girl, anyhow WGAF....
Nov 28th, 2013 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD is a moron and a fool. The U$ will be the worlds currency until long after we are all dead. There is nothing to replace it with.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You do realize that all the Rich Chinese are putting their money in the USA and getting their families out before the collapse. Right?
37) LOL what a retard this yankee is !!!!!!Chinese wealthy use the dollars they have earned and are swiming in to go overthere and buy US property because the Chinese high society is inexistent and dull. Not sophisticated like the western ones are...
Nov 28th, 2013 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In any case they are transforming those US dollars in real assets before the colapse.
Common sence
So wait they are buying homes in the USA YET they think we are going to collapse? huh?
Nov 28th, 2013 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They're getting resident visas/citizenship and not going back to China taking their BILLIONS to the USA with them.
Have you ever been out of that sh*thole country? You have no idea what you are talking about! Take an econ class before you post more drivel.
Nope dickhead, the collapse of the value of the US dollar, american assets will be worth far more than the dollars in future.
Nov 28th, 2013 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1505234-los-millonarios-de-china-un-producto-de-exportacion
So our economy is going to collapse but our assets will go up in value?
Nov 28th, 2013 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you retarded?
Lol retard and you even have the guts to say to me that I dont understand economics... Of course when currency falls (devaluation) the prices of commodities and assets go up. Anyway look at it the way you like. Its not that they are investing and lifting factories or anything productive in the US. If you base your economy in some 100 rich Chinese family buying and investing in real estate in the outskirts and flats in downtown LA and expect this to balance YOUR TRILLIONS DEBT with China you are seriuosly more stupid than I believed....
Nov 28th, 2013 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yankeeboy
Nov 29th, 2013 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0We finally discover Argentina's economy plan!
Collapse the economy so completely that everything in Argentina will be worth more!
Argentina economics 101 it would seem.
43. The problem with Rgs is they think we are all as dumb as they are.
Nov 29th, 2013 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also its a wet dream of theirs to see a USA or UK economic collapse but it just never seems to happen for them and they can't figure out why.
CD, the USA owes U$2T to China, we owe them about 1 1/4 years worth of exports. Do you see why this is not catastrophic? I agree I don't like it but it certainly is manageable.
The US gov't debt is mostly owed to USA gov't entities and citizens, again not great but manageable.
The USA gov't is incalculably wealthy, the largest landholder/property holder in the USA with great mineral wealth and the largest taxing authority on the planet, largest gold reserves, largest stakeholder in countless valuable entities ( IMF IDB WB) etc etc etc. Have you ever seen the Smithsonian? The USA owns the best art in the world, the best and most well know artifacts in the world are in our public museums. Since you've never been here you have no idea how wealthy we are. We are not Argentina and never will be.
43) Anglotino
Nov 29th, 2013 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you always refer to me as if I was President, Economy Minister and Central Bank Chairman of Argentina and I was responsible of the nutters in power desicions ??
If I was all those things I would fix up and make Argentina into a world power in 10 years.
44) yankeeboy I dont want to see anyone collapse, in fact im not too naive, I see the Chinese leadership are brutal dictators who will make a world a far worse place than it already is, the US is a philantropist at par of China, typical latam left sees with good eyes the Chinese rise and over coming the US but they dont realize they are even far more capitalist than the US in many aspects, when the Chinese finally deal politically with the third world the ChCP will teach them in no time how many pairs are three boots in no time (Arg expression) and they will be missing the Americans in a couple of years. The yellows wont put up whith their crapp. Make no mistake im on the side of the Western world on this one, but this is not even economics its common sense, your best economists and businessmen say that there is a chance that China surpasses you in the next 2 decades. Your real problem is not the debt with China, its the trend of the trade balance with them, and the trend is originated in the uneven currency. Just like Trump says you are sending diplomats and easy going officials to deal with them and they are getting run over by the chinese negotiators whilst China shortens the technological gap at fast rates, robs your know-how, buys all your assets,etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wj_mVC9RYg
A lot can happen in two decades and even if by some magic China overtakes the USA with a larger GDP they'll still have Hundreds of Millions of people making less per month than what we spend on lunch every day.
Nov 29th, 2013 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry about the USA we will be rich and powerful long after you and your grandchildren are dead.
You should be spending all of your free time figuring how to get out of that horrible country you live in.
46) That two decades is the best of estimates for the US, if you dont do the difficult choices reality will do it for you, you can say the same for Argentina, the difference is that I dont live with my head burried in the sand.... What I do with my time, where I go or stay is my own problem... Can we leave for a second Argentina topic all related to the others and personal matters aside for once in MercoPress??
Nov 29th, 2013 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 02 decades is the best estimate to the USA demise?
Nov 29th, 2013 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are deluded.
Only nutcases think we're going to collapse in a generation. We happen to have a VERY STUPID and WEAK President. It is bad for us and the world but he will be gone in max 2 years. So again don't worry about the USA. I am not and neither is 99.999% of the rest of the world. I'll leave a little room for the kooks out there.
God, people talking about China sound like those talking about Japan in the late 1980s. People have no perspective. I blame it on the Argentine school system that prefers useless propoganda slogans like 'Malvinas son Argentinas' than actual critical thinking.
Nov 29th, 2013 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Superficial understanding of US debt.
Shallow understanding of China's economy.
No understanding of demographics.
If China can collapse the US economy, why doesn't it just do it?
Every year they delay such a collapse is another year the US will work to avoid it.
China has less workers this year than it did last year-next year there will be even less. Now's the time.
Mustn't be as simplistic as the simple people think.
48) LOL.... Look at that Argentina has gone down the drain so fast over the last century, it was half the South American GDP in the early 1900's. We should have whooped Brazil and Chile's arses so long ago and we should be telling them what to do but instead we breed Peronism in the 1940s and that was are true downfall. Yet despite all the crisis, defaults, gov't collapses, Argentina is still on foot. Why ?? Because its big but not even big as it is supposed to be, the US is big of course but the others are growing bigger. 4th largest country in the planet and maybe 400MM ppl in the next two decades, you cant get that to wrong, but you are not as good as you were vs the rest of the world say 20 years ago.
Nov 29th, 2013 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not only a Obama problem you have, the Bush and Clinton years enabled China what it has come to be now. Obama simply arrieved to the White House with a economy collapsed, two wars in the Middle East and a already growing superpower in the far East who which America already owed them a lot of money.
@CD
Nov 29th, 2013 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't share your view on the rise of China. I broadly agree with much of Anglotino and yankee on this subject. China has so many domestic problems. Not just the demographics, but civil unrest and would-be break away regions. These are weaknesses that can poked by enemies.
They are completely surrounded by enemies that are suspicious of them and while many are small fish, two are nuclear armed and one has a population of over 1000 million.
China risks committing 20th century Germany's error of pushing too soon. If a conflict does start, no one will come to China's aide. There are also parallels in China's own history. In the early 19th century the British balance of trade with China was going the wrong way. China was a huge, but mostly inaccessible market. The Brits jumped on the first opportunity to start a war which became a resounding victory. China's huge market was opened. Once the Brits had kicked the door in, the Americans, French and Russians all hurried in to help keep it open. China has by far the most to lose in a conflict.
China's in a pressure cooker: time is against them (demographics, resources), the world is against them and who knows what the Chinese people really think, maybe they are against them too.
51) I dont agree many countries of the world have terrible social problems, the US is not exactly Scandinavia, they are HUGE SOCIAL PROBLEMS IN THE US, just read their papers every day you will find it, absolutely everything from crime, murders, racial related problems, drug consumption, materialist shallow people, uneducated folk, nutt gun crazed loons commiting massacres. I have worked with Chinese folk simple they may be at first glance but they are far more disciplined and ordered than the general Americans are. I think revolts are more likely to occur in the US than in China. Besides even the Chinese Comunist party understands that eventually democracy has to be allowed to develop in China and that other political parties should be founded. And I belive that in short they will make significant progress in that direction. I think the domestic Chinese problems you speak of are nothing close compared to the ones of the US
Nov 29th, 2013 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Facts are China with 300 million less is about 1000 million people. With less people to feed, more resources for the rest. After all there is a reason they implemented the one child policy. They still have a vast rural population 50% that will be leaving for the prosperous cities of the Eastern coast so I dont see much the demografic aspect so challenging, in fact I think China is moving in the right direction in that regard...
49) If China can collapse the US economy, why doesn't it just do it??
If you ask this question at this point you clearly didn't understand ANYTHING.
50. You are mistaken on your view of world dynamics/politics. How many people need to tell you this before it sinks in?
Nov 29th, 2013 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The USA is not in a GDP race with China. Who really cares where we are in the list in 20 yrs? We will still be rich and powerful. Richer and more powerful in many more ways than economic or militarily than any other country in the world.
Read 51, slowly and a couple times. Your myopic Rg indoctrinated views are making you look pretty stupid.
As I said many time The USA is not Argentina. We still use the U$ never changed its name, it's good all over the world, we're not swayed by populism, we don't devalue, we never had hyperinflation, we have a HUGE export economy, A HUGE RICH, SMART AND HARDWORKING population. We are not Argentina and never will be.
53)
Nov 29th, 2013 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The USA is not in a GDP race with China. Who really cares where we are in the list in 20 yrs? We will still be rich and powerful. Richer and more powerful in many more ways than economic or militarily than any other country in the world.”
I wouldnt be so sure
“we have a HUGE export economy, A HUGE RICH, SMART AND HARDWORKING population. We are not Argentina and never will be.”
But not enough... You are living off of credit and your assets and have being doing so for some tima .
“we don't devalue”
Lies
@53 yankeeboy
Nov 29th, 2013 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your arguments would have a lot more power if so much of what you write didn't consist of pointless, gratuitous insults.
You are too stupid for me to waste any more time with this thread.
Nov 29th, 2013 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You remind me of a crazy person yapping to himself on the corner thinking he is the most brilliant person around and everyone who walks by tries to avoid eye contact.
Maybe if you could leave the sh*thole country sometime you'd finally understand why we all think you are a might slow on the uptake.
56) Sure... Do you really think im the only person in the world who is actually saying this??
Nov 29th, 2013 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I already said the problem with you yankeeboy is that you are just looking the other way and hoping that random lightning falls down on the wolf that is about to eat you...
@52 CD
Nov 29th, 2013 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Much of what you say in your first paragraph has some truth to it but those kinds of social problems don't usually lead to revolution.
“I think revolts are more likely to occur in the US than in China”
The last time anything resembling a revolt took place in the US was the Rodney King rioting 20 years ago. There are 10s of thousands of “mass incidents” in China each year.
Chinese people do not have political freedom or freedom of speech or expression. History tells us that when people are denied basic freedoms, revolution is a matter of when, not if.
The ruling elite surely understand this but will they manage a smooth transition to democracy? Such a transition will be a monumental task. Have a look at an old map. China was half the size it is now at the start of the 20th century: no Tibet, no Singkiang, no Inner Mongolia, no consolidated Manchuria. It is like a very big Yugoslavia.
Even if they can make it through without break up, democracy can be a curse in a country with a large, poor, ignorant underclass and rife corruption.
58)I have a New Zealander acquaintance that has campaigned a lot in Internet for the Tibetans and has being doing so since 2008 when these things came to late during the run up to the Beijing Olimpics and the crackdown followed. If I have to be realistic and leave aside the atrocities committed by the CCP I will have to recognize that the Han Chinese are around 90% of the total population and they flood in these provinces easily. Lhasa unfortunately has become a shit hole as they make life hard for the Tibetans and fill the historic city with their crappy stores and brothels. I know that the Serbs and the Russians to much more extend did similar stuff in the former Yugoslavia and the USSR. I think they are shit scared of any uprising, of those Mass incidents only 9% are motivated by ethnic reasons... More or less 4,4% of the people involved in them are of minorities.
Nov 29th, 2013 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.danwei.com/a-report-on-mass-incidents-in-china-in-2012/
http://www.danwei.com/a-report-on-mass-incidents-in-china-in-2012/
If you ask me the Indians should have done more to prevent the Chinese taking over Tibet in the early 1950s. To be even more fair if India would have being still under British administration at that time, that invasion may well not have ocurred. Now the Indians should face the results of their own cowardice and have the Chinese enhance their grip on the region, build up its forces, dump their nuclear waste and take all the water.
I think the Uighurs and other muslims can get involved in a armed struggle or terrorism if China involves itself more in the Middle East. It will be interesting to see how things play out as the US pulls out of the region.
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