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UN independent expert suggests Argentina audits foreign debt and improves social conditions

Saturday, November 30th 2013 - 07:00 UTC
Full article 37 comments

United Nations independent expert urged authorities in Argentina to undertake an audit of its external debt to improve transparency, and to intensify efforts to improve social conditions for their people. Read full article

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  • Anglotino

    http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2013/02/22/argentina-lies-damned-lies-and-statistics/

    Is there anything that the Argentine government doesn't lie or fudge when it comes to finances?

    Not even the UN believe their debt figures.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    “If this trend continues, the Government might face difficulties in honoring its debts,” Hilarious! Since when have argies bothered about honouring their debts? The way it works is that they first deny that there is any debt. Then they force lenders to take a loss. Then they refuse to pay those who didn't fall for the con. Then they scream about being “victimised”. Then their slag puts on her “little girl lost” face (Not difficult as the “face” can be remoulded in minutes) and alternates between saying how well argieland is doing and how it will be crippled by repaying its (non-existent) debts. One would have thought the governments of the world could detect lying, as they do so much of it themselves.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Conqueror,
    l agree with most of what you said, however on one point you are horribly wrong.
    By no stretch of the imagination could you ever think the TMBOA(thanks ChrisR) could put on a “little girl lost” face.
    C'est impossible!

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    I dont like any of this. United Nations “independent expert”. Why on earth was he here for?? This useless bureucrat forgets Argentina has being out of the Credit market for more than 10 years by now. It was only in 2010 that they went for the reserves after they mis speant all the money in everything else.
    So the Ks sincere INDEC or flirt of doing so and thats enough for the IMF to start coming and going with Argentina and now some UN fool comes along and we are already talking about taking debt!!!!!!! WTF??. Why does the international comunity come to lend money NOW when it is clear that the Ks are leaving power so the next government has to face yet another bill?? It makes me so fuming angry.

    Default wasn't a free gift at all it has cost many hardships but it lets us have a fresh start, let us not go back to the situation of before, please dont give them anymore money!! And the next gov't shouden't go for it either. The Ks will say and I can already hear them “Ohh but we lmanaged with out taking loans from abroad for over 10 years and you come in and the next thing you do is call in for the IMF”


    Just let the Ks live by the day whith what little they have as they have being doing so for the last decade. Everybody knows where the money roughly goes, the problem is paying the political cost of privatizing ENARSA, AEROLINEAS,etc cut the subsidies, tackle corruption and overpriced public buildings, scrap FPT. Bloody harpies the Ks, the international community and this monkey. Man this makes me so Angry !!!

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Argentina has a lot, and I mean a lot of un-recognized foreign debt. This is why they need an audit.
    U$2B+ loss in reserves THIS MONTH is catastrophic.
    Peso CRASHING
    If this country had an intelligent population they'd be rioting in the streets.
    These dummies won't realize it's all gone until their unemployment cash stops coming regularly.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • andy65

    @ CabezaDura Why are you so angry??? your the people who elected these thieves

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @4 CD

    I think it's because that the Argentine government is in complete denial that there is a problem, and are refusing to do anything about it.

    There's no same about being in debt, but burying your head in the sand and pretending it's not happening doesn't solve any problems, they just compound them.

    You do have my sympathy, but until the Argentine government and by extension the majority of the Argentine people wake up and smell the coffee, then Argentina will remain as it is.

    Imploding every 10 years or so, wiping out people's saving, impoverishing them more.

    It's such a shame, because with the amount of natural resources Argentina has, it could be one of the largest economies in the world. With the oil revenue they could easily repair Argentina's crumbling infrastructure, improve schools and hospitals, encourage international countries to set up in Argentina (using tax breaks) which would inturn decrease unemployment.

    More people in work earning money, is good. When people have good stable jobs they buy things such as luxury items, and this in turn helps the economy. They buy their own homes, and then they spend more money on their homes improving and maintaining them.

    And will huge revenue from the oil and gas, Argentina could have very low taxes, which helps everyone.

    So why doesn't it have any of this? Corruption and mismanagement. While Argentines believe that corruption is inevitable, and spend their lives trying to cash in on the gravy train, then Argentina will never improve.

    Like any problem, the 1st step is to acknowledge that you have a problem. Then you can start to come up with steps and plans to tackle these problems. It may seem like unsurmountable odds, but as Confusus said: the journey of a 1,000 miles starts with one step.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    6) Not me

    7) You said it yourself “Corruption and mismanagement. While Argentines believe that corruption is inevitable, and spend their lives trying to cash in on the gravy train, then Argentina will never improve”

    So why does the IMF and the internationalt community start flirting with Argentina while the Ks are still in power??? They know themselves all this, and believe you me, these organizations have to deal whith other currupt governments all over the world every single day, but why should Argentina go into debt again?? The timing here is most suspicious to me, because fine lets sincere INDEC...But for example once we recognize what everybody knows for example inflation, then how do you tackle it ??? You have to pay a hell of a lot of political costs if you are going to put the house in order.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    I was going to say, it wasn't CD who elected them, it was the other idiots, few more like him, we and they might get things sorted out. There's hope yet!

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    9)Thanks for the support but we are very much outnumbered..... :-(((

    I also think that organizations like the IMF and WB are useless, they only end up prolonging the lifes span of populist governments in the world by financing corruption and mismanagement, if not getting involved in the corruption themselves.
    These kind of gov't should be aloud to go bust the faster the better

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • willi1

    Cephas Lumina - one voice more in a 80,000 people stadium claiming the arg-gang to be thiefs. useless.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    DR Cephas Lumina holds an LLB with Merit (Zambia), LLM in International Human Rights Law (Essex, United Kingdom), PhD in International Human Rights Law (Griffith University, Australia), and an Advanced Diploma in International Human Rights (Abo Akademi University, Finland). He has over 25 years’ legal practice, research and teaching experience in several countries including Australia, South Africa, Swaziland, Sweden, Uganda and Zambia.

    Although he is undoubtedly an intelligent chap and has a distinguished career it seems he doesn’t know the basic motto of the country:

    “Argentina, spending other peoples’ money since 1810” © RICO 2013

    That’s about all he needs to know: job done.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    12) Good for him,nothing but a college bureaucrat because I dont see the point of this other than indebt Argentina... If Argentina was so shady as we know why does he come here ??? Why is Legarde so interested in INDEC if she knows the statistics are fraud ???
    C'mon answer me

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 13 CabezaDura

    Legarde has a job which primarily is to “help” countries who are in difficulties out of them.

    I am sure she thinks she is “helping” Argentina, certainly she is engineering as much slack as she can for your country to continue accessing money from the northern ones. Instead perhaps slamming the door on you as she should a greedy child who has raided the pantry time after time and never owning up to the roll of fat that it has when everybody else knows it has no “food”.

    She, and those who would continue to supply “loans” just do not seem to understand that TMBOA and her cohorts will never pay back what these deluded people have supplied.

    Back to the first sentence: countries who are in difficulties are usually themselves responsible for the difficulties and only by understanding WHAT the difficulties are can the lenders really help. Given that bribery, corruption and downright theft is a way of life for nearly everyone in Argentina, these lenders do not have a cat in hells’ chance of “correcting” the problem because almost nobody wants to take responsibility for the “problem”: it’s not their own actions that cause them!

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    14) Do you really believe the IMF board and Lagarde are that naive??? Do you think the only corrupt government in the world they have to deal whith is Argentina??? That is something everybody agrees here and knows, but you don't accept that by this behaviour they are not only financing the regimes and governments of the world that indulge in corruption and mismanagment and by doing so prolonging their life span, but they are also condeming the people to pay the interests and the loans too.

    Nestor Kirchener had a clash with Anne Kruger of the IMF almost 10 years ago now over the default, so has Cristina being against any other re engagement with the IMF. And the IMF also knew that there was no reason to give credit to Argentina during all these years. Fair enough. So how come now that it is clear the government doesnt live up further than 2015 the IMF and the Ks re-establish relations and looking over INDEC?? Everybody knows the inflation is over 25%, do you think the IMF doesnt know this?? Its all a precondition to facilitate a new generation loans to get the new government in 2015 to start over whith more bills to pay. Dont you understand the timing of all this, and what is this bureucrat telling us really in any case ?? We should audit where the money of the loans go....... but I want to audit where the tax payers money goes so we dont have a need for these loans in the first place. And you know the truth is once the money arrives from the IMF at the hands of any other government the IMF or UN is unable to have any say on where the money finaly is spent.

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Fucin hell!

    When was the last time the UN audited a set of European books?

    Nov 30th, 2013 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Truth PaTroll

    The United Nations lecturing others on transparency.

    1, 2, 3... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    What's next, Susan Boyle giving beauty tips and British footballers issuing advice on winning World Cups?

    Nice joke.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @16

    It's a pity no-one took a good hard look at Greece's book-keeping a few years back. Would've saved the E.U., and particularly Germany, a lot of grief.

    @17 Tobias

    That Susan Boyle crack is beneath you.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 05:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @17 Tobias,
    Susan Boyle is a far better woman, than you are a man.
    And you are a joke.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 06:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falkland Islands

    @17 The Truth PaTroll The United Nations lecturing others on transparency.

    and then you go running to them about the Falklands. try not to burn the candle at both ends!

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    Come guys, Give truth patrol some credit. I thought that Susan Boyle comment was quite witty.
    This will be the first time he has had CREDIT in a long time.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @21 Klingon

    It was a cheap shot on Tobias part, my trekkie friend. Vulgarity doesn't come naturally to him I think.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    18) Greece had being cooking its numbers for some years, it should have being the Europeans who detected the problems heading in that direction.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @ 23 CD

    Agree 100%. The E.U. only has it's self to blame. You'd think they they would've figured it out when Greek pensions, despite the difference in per capita income, were greater than they were in Germany.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Truth PaTroll

    @18, 19

    It did get worse, the hypocrisy.

    Don't you two CONSTANTLY crack about CFK's botulinum-bound, wizened countenance? How a rebarbative, emetic creature she is?

    Have I ever said something about it?

    Every one has their opinions of physical beauty. You think CFK is a bag. I think Susan Boyle and CFK are bags. The world isn't fair is it.

    But for your Pecksniffian pleasure I will amend that comment.

    What's next? British Footballers taping self-improvement videos on penalty kick tips?

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @25 Tobias

    I think you've confused me with someone else - I simply don't make such statements ( that was a very funny description of your President b.t.w. ) about women.

    You me made me think though - the difference is Ms Kirchner is a woman who was once extremely attractive and is still extremely vain, as well as being very powerful. It's hard to feel much sympathy for her. Susan Boyle, on the other hand is clearly someone who has been judged on her appearance for much of her life - you may remember the derisive expressions that greeted her appearance on that reality show before everybody's jaws collectively dropped when she commenced singing.

    You're right of course - the world is indeed unfair, so why make it any more unfair? As to those overpaid soccer wusses - I have zero protective instincts.

    I just don't think you are a naturally mean person which is what I meant by my earlier post.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    IMO, I don't think this visit, or the accompanying report to the UN in March 2014 will deflect the natural course of things at all. The visit and its report will have ZERO influence on anything, in Argentina or at the UN.

    CD - Is the IMF already thinking about new loans to Argentina even before they've seen how Argentina will alter its INDEC reporting to avoid IMF penalties?

    Does the IMF actually make a net return from loaning money to nations in difficulty? Or do they operate at a net loss?

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura

    27) The Argentine gov't certainly is thinking in accesing the credit markets and the IMF is clearly willing to reestablish relations with Argentina and improve its battered image in Latam. Surely INDEC's numbers must be adjusted for some technical reasons in order to let the new loans come along. Maybe Moreno's departure wasn't such a good thing after all.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @25 Tobias,
    Yes you are correct.
    l have, in the past, made comments about your unspeakable President.
    Taking into account all that she is trying to do to the Falklands, do you think that l should praise/love her?
    Get real.
    She is public enemy #1.
    She has an attitude problem. As do all you malvinistas.

    Dec 01st, 2013 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @3 Isolde. I do understand your point. However, have you considered the effect of stamping on it? All sorts of possibilities. The receding forehead. One eye closed as in a wink. A new profile as the nose becomes a stub. The receding chin. The ability to grub for food in the forest (like a pig) as the remaining teeth in the upper jaw overlap. The pouch under the chin (like a pelican) in which to keep grubs.
    @18 NOTHING is beneath it!
    @25 What you don't recognise is the difference between Susan Boyle and CFK. Ms Boyle has a genuine talent that brings pleasure to millions. CFK has two talents. The willingness to lie and very sticky fingers. I wonder if you have the intelligence to determine which is best? Here's another one. Around 40 million people SUFFER because of CFK. NO-ONE suffers because of Susan Boyle!

    Dec 02nd, 2013 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @30 Conqueror,
    My kids won't go to sleep because of your posts.
    The boys especially, find them hillarious, the bloodthirsty microbes.!
    The girls are not much better.

    Dec 02nd, 2013 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Truth PaTroll

    @32

    Raising them to be good ol' racist Brits, well I give you credit for having the guts to admit it :)

    Dec 03rd, 2013 - 04:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Nostrils your parents seem to have done an even worse job then.

    Dec 03rd, 2013 - 07:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @32 Nostrolito,
    lf you say so, if it makes you happy to think so.
    l would have thought its just childrens' morbid fascinations, example how they love Halloween & other holidays.
    You do jump to the most outlandish suppositions, don't you old chap.

    Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Truth PaTroll

    You think I am playing games with that comment. I am not.

    You know the kind of comments conqueror makes of argies. You let your children read them, in fact encourage it, and ENDORSE the message.

    @33

    Hating Anglos is not racism. You are our enemy, when you stop being our enemy then maybe things will change right? And I thought you insisted anglos are not a race.

    Dec 03rd, 2013 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    So hating Anglos isn't racism because they aren't a race. Because they are the same race as other Europeans (who you do profess hatred for) and they are the same race as many in the Americas. Interesting.

    Anglos aren't a race.
    Anglos aren't a culture.
    Anglos are pretty much English speakers no matter their nationality, race or culture.

    Don't you speak English?

    It doesn't matter what you want to call your intolerances, whether racism or xenophobia or just plain hate, it is still a reflection on your upbringing…… or mental health.

    You choose. One of them is to blame.

    Dec 03rd, 2013 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    OK, My family & l are racists because nostrilito said we are.
    l can live with that.
    Next.
    btw, nostrils, old bean, l think that you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
    You are just tooooooooo perfect for our world.
    But try to lighten up, ay?

    Dec 03rd, 2013 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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