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Argentines will have to spend summer holidays at home; tourist dollar up 35%
In an attempt to stop the drain of Argentina Central Bank international reserves, the government of President Cristina Fernandez has decided to take the 20% income tax advance to 35% for all credit and debit card purchases made abroad. The move will also involve the purchase of dollars for Argentines travelling abroad with the US currency climbing now to 8.322 pesos. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe arrogance is flabbergasting! Do the Marxists monkeys running Argentina realize that its not THEIR money the tourists are spending but the individual WHO EARNED IT?
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whew!
They just don't get it!
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1. How is it less arrogant to the billions of $ in bailouts the US government gave out with taxpayers money? Bailouts that were necessary to protect jobs because of the American culture of “borrow money now ask questions later” which lead to the real estate debacle which in turn turned the world's economy upside down?
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We can argue back and forth about sound economics but as an american, you are in no position to lecture anyone. every single year now your congress debates whether to declare default on chinese debt or rise the debt ceiling even further than it is because of your spending habbits.
for the record, i do not support this measure because it indirectly targets the free movement of argentinean citizens. the government is desperate to seal off their central bank reserves leak but patches such as this one are not sustainable in the long run because their are both unpopular and superficial.
Troneas. I have to agree with you,albeit reluctantly
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4. of course you do. i also forgot to add the US invaded another country with loaned money and under false pretextes.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0arrogance... heh.
Two wrongs don't make a right!
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just because the US has economic problems doesn't mean that Argentina's are any less a problem to Argentineans. And it doesn't mean Argentina can't learn from others instead of repeating.
Why don't Argentineans compare their economic decisions and problems with Switzerland..... or Norway.... or Germany.... Singapore.... New Zealand..... Denmark...... Poland...... Canada..... Chile.... Australia etc?
I'm not a fan of many facets of the US economic and political systems but when my government makes mistakes I don't then highlight problems in the US. That's because I prefer my country emulated different facets of those I listed.
Running your economy into the ground and then feeling smug because you ran it into the ground differently to another country is just cutting your nose off to spite your face.
The fact remains that Argentina is in deep trouble and the current government is clearly incompetent and incapable of sorting things out. Their strategy of Falklands disstraction has failed too. We await the crisis with inteereest...
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6. because i was not the one to come in here to insult and lecture about economics?
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and it is not that simple to compare or mirror economic situations across countries. of course we have problems with corruption and bad governance that need a solution, but every country has its economic peculiarity that plays a role.
history plays a role. geography plays a role. infrastructure plays a role. climate plays a role, governing laws both domestic and regional play a role...
argentina's economic circumstance is very particular. it relies mostly on agricultural goods. that is the strength this country has been blessed with. it is competitive in that area. argentinean agricultural products have had tremendous difficulty getting into american and european markets. switzerland locks up people's money for a living - regardless if its called mugabe or nelson mandela. they'll take it and use it for their benefit. chile has the biggest disparity of wealth in the region. many chileans cannot afford nor have access to education or health. but ya, the bankers and multinationals are happy because they practice a liberal economy. aside from that they rely on the price of copper to survive. if that falls through the roof, they'll be in trouble.
i am not suggestion by this post that all our problems are world-created. there is rampant corruption in this government and bad administration as i have said before. but argentina has tried the neo-liberal economics (what you might call sound economics) preached by the US and the IMF and all it created was unemployment, huge wealth disparity and the closure of national industry.
thanks, but no thanks.
Troneas
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why is Argentina always so unique that its problems can not be understood or replicated by others countries?
As for Argentina trying “neo-liberal economics”, did that involve a freely floating exchange rate? You can implement piece meal some parts of a model and then wonder whey they don't work.
You say Argentina can't be compared to Switzerland or Chile. Fine then, what about Australia. Here are two countries that were so similar once and now are not. We were both once rich agricultural countries with large scale immigration from Europe to grow our economies and fill our empty spaces. We both were distant from our markets and for all intents and purposes Argentina was a Spanish speaking Australia and Australia was an English speaking Argentina. Indeed Argentina once had a larger economy than ours.
So what happened? How did Argentina get it so wrong or did Australia get it so right that we are not even in the same league now? How did we become so rich and powerful and still continue to attract 250,000 immigrants per year and Argentina lurches from crisis to crisis and now is a country of emigration?
Why does Argentina suffer bouts of hyperinflation but Australia has never suffered a single bout?
Argentina is following a different economic model from the last massive failure in early 2000. But is it getting it right?
There's a budget deficit, currency controls are increasing, reserves are falling and inflation is increasing. Supposedly “neo liberal economics” are proven to not work when this starts to happen.
But it is happening again and yet for some reason no one is saying that this economic model is unworkable.
At which point during a crisis do you admit that your system isn't working?
@9. Australia has never had Peronists.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Troneas,So Argentina's problems have nothing to do with the policy's of that daughter of a rat Cristina Kirchner???? get rid of her and get rid of your problems.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9 One has to consider culture too. A large number of Argentines, particularly in Buenos Aires, just don't want to work. Those that do will do anything to avoid paying tax (50% are on the 'black'). Everyone is trying to scam everyone else and avoid paying for anything.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I am exaggerating a little but I have lived there and witnessed it. I am not the lone voice saying this, just about every foreigner that has lived there notices it.
The whole concept of a social contract where you have to give to society as well as take just seems anathema to Argentines.
“”“@9. Australia has never had Peronists.”“”
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0QFT
Nail on the head...
andy65 - oh so wrong, Kirchner is just one recent example of an endemic problem that is Peronism.
If the Peronists dont win an election they can make damn sure that whoever does win wont be able to run the country properly - THAT is the issue, not today's current incumbent face for Peronism.... TMBOA is just the face, never forget that.
Peronism itself, and the political and social culture that is has manifested is the real enemy of the Argentine people.
Capitalism doesn't work in “casual” cultures. That would be a disaster for Argentina. And it can't work in the U.S. much longer either. Too many leftist freeloaders.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you don't want to work for your money, you have to lie for it. But a car can only run on the fumes of BS for so long.
People have the right to work as hard as they want to, and not be robbed for it by a bunch of leftist lying thieves.
Argentina takes the route of Venezuela down the toilet. And the U.S. takes the leftist route of Argentina also, in the same direction.
Good luck in coming up with an economic alternative to hard work.
So far, the only alternative is “redistribution” (i.e. forked-tongued leftist rhetoric thievery).
I know, I know, how “dare” I call someone lazy. “I'm really a very hard worker, how dare you!!!” “We are ALL very hard workers!!!” That is a freeloader's first lie.
Argentine taxes.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H01XSGe1A7g
@Troneas
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Australia may never have hard Peronistas and if you think that this is the root cause of Argentina failing to keep pace with Australia that is telling.
So perhaps it is not the “neo-liberal economic model preached by the US and the IMF” that created “unemployment, huge wealth disparity and the closure of national industry”.
Perhaps it was something else. Your political system? Many people in Australia disparage the other side of politics but we alternate our government through them so that for every zig to the left there is a zag to the right. And we more or less follow a path between the two extremes. Perhaps Argentina's path is an extreme and there is no political force to temper it. if that is so, then you would think that Peronism would have become an insult after 60 years and not a badge of pride as it seems to be by CFK.
How many more economic models will Argentina try before it realises that the common denominator in their failure is its body politic?
@ ElaineB
Australia also had huge problems with the cash economy so it implemented changes step by step to stamp it out. It started with everyone getting a Tax File Number (TFN). Then any employer or financial institution was able to withhold 50% tax on any earnings if you didn't provide a TFN. This was then followed by the overhaul of our sales tax and replacement with a GST so businesses had an incentive to claim as many expenses as possible to reduce their GST bill for their sales.
That is not to say that there still isn't a cash economy, but you have to reduce the reasons that some prefer that economy instead. And bit by bit it becomes easier to become part of the system.
As I was saying to Troneas, I think there is a major problem within Argentina's civil society that causes the economic problems that both you and he talk about.
Great to see some intelligent and well thought out posts devoid,almost, of the usua l mud slinging.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Mexican PRI governed for over 75 years and has just returned to power last year after a short gap, they had the advantage that next door there was a country where they could dump their millions of poor and recive remittances in return for generations. Now they are governed by drug lords. They are much more free market oriented than the Peronist are...
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just saying...
They are slaving the citizens of Argentina how can you take this what kind of fucking people are in charge of this country ,how can you take this abuse day after day why can you do what Paraguay did and take the communist out of power.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 019) Because one half of the country is happy to live off the back of the other half... When one side can no longer pay for the other the country collapses like it has historically occurred
Dec 04th, 2013 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0CabezaDura
Dec 04th, 2013 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The Mexican PRI governed for over 75 years and has just returned to power last year after a short gap”
You just proved my point!
Australia 'more or less follow[s] a path between the two extremes. Perhaps Argentina's path is an extreme and there is no political force to temper it.”
Mexico is nowhere as rich as Canada or the US.
An entrenched ideology or bloc of power is never good in the long run.
Argentina needs to shake of Peronism and be offered an alternative. Peronism can still vie for power but there needs to be a real alternative.
Think makes fun and rubs his hands in glee that Chile will probably elect a socialist president. He sees this as some sort of triumph of the left over right, but it is a triumph of the Chilean system over the Argentine.
The oscillation of power between differing ideologies from the left and right lets a country find its centre. Now, that centre isn't the same in all countries but it also isn't an extreme. Centre politics in Australia is to the left of the centre in the US but to the right of the centre in most of Europe. Funnily enough, Chile's centre is very close to Australia's (IMHO). And Argentina's centre might be left of Chile's but that won't matter as much as the fact that it has a centre and that differing ideologies find some common ground on some things and pursue different policies on other things.
At the moment Argentina doesn't have a centre with competing ideologies. It just has a Peronism that smothers all others.
As I said, this is a societal issue. If Argentine society can't shake its belief or faith in Peronism then it will continue to suffer the same fate that it has endured many times before.
The economic system will enter crisis mode and you will try again. But if Peronism becomes the dominant creed after that, then you will only just head down the same path again.
If some countries are getting it so right, then Argentina isn't prevented from doing the same except by Argentineans.
The question is why would anyone leave the country for January vacation.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 03:47 am - Link - Report abuse 021) LOL, I wasn't actually intended in contradicting you love....
Dec 04th, 2013 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Peronism has an incredible capacity of evolving and rebranding itself, there is a common peronist character and logic by which politicians exercise the control of the Argentine State, which I personally define and can call “Peronism” but it doesnt mean that there is such thing as a Peronist ideology. Peronism is not nationalist, not socialists, not republican, nor social democrat, nor liberal, nor anything. The only thing you can say that binds them together is the love for the old General and not even that is the case as some declared Peronist hate J.D Peron like Carlos Kunkel, Anibal Fernandez and Cristina Fernandez behind doors..
And dont get me wrong they are fully aware of there sins, there is always remarkable honesty that surprises you from time to time... What I'm hopping from now on after the Ks have gone, is that the Peronist party will start democratizing from within their own Partido Justicialista. I think they might be at least more tolerant and respectful to non peronist governments and allow them to rise as credible opposition for their own good in the future. (When there is no real opposition they end up eating each other)
The rest of the Argentine opposition is bad but whith not few seemingly exeptions, its very easy to blame the opposition for what the government has turned to be, but its not fair and such statements have the intention of disregard ones own civic duty... In other words what is really bad and inmature is the general electorate.
JMO.
Argentina, the superpower that never was.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/778193e4-44d8-11de-82d6-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2mUSv1Mpl
From another thread. Cogent analysis of Argentina's historical and present difficulties.
ls anyone actually driving Argentina?
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Or is the front seat empty & everyone is partying in the back.?
Sure looks that way.
I suspect that part of the reason the Govt don't want people travelling abroad is so they have nothing to judge Argentina against .
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Every consejal ( councillor ) , intendente ( mayor ) , governor and deputy at local and provincial level SHOULD be taken abroad , in order to see how orderly , developed countries are run , and what Argentina should be .
Sadly , Peronismo is built on rabid xenophobia ( copied from the Nazis ) , which combined with Argentines staggering arrogance , means they are unable to concede an alternative point of view , let alone that things can be done any better by following the models of other countries .
That said comparisons with Australia are totally unfair , because the countries developed in completely different ways .
For example , Buenos Aires was already totally corrupt while ruled by Spain .
Secondly , by the time mass immigration started Argentina was already totally by about 100 powerful land owning families , so there was very little left for the aspirational colonist to buy and develop , unless he came with a lot of capital , which most of them didn't have .
A total dependence on manufactured imports till WWII meant there was no real middle class , so the interior especially was a feudal society till the 1940's .
A Peron type figure was always going to appear . He simply saw his chance and took it .
What I cannot fathom is this hero worship of a man that fucked it all up so badly .
Maybe they should start a class-action suit against the credit card companies that charge you 35% more than you signed for...???
Dec 04th, 2013 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 022. This comment from someone who's never left his slum. Maybe if you found a rich daddy you'd see why people leave as often and forever.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 03. The USA is still richer and more powerful than any other country in the world. We've got 200+ yrs of excellent management of our resources and economy. A decade here or there is irrelevant. So yeah I have the arrogance of history on my side. It looks like you could use a lesson or two.
People like troneas also fail to grasp the flexibility of being the reserve world currency that the dollar allows the economy of the US.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nixons Treasury Secretary John Connolly, speaking to a group of European finance ministers worried about the export of American inflation that the dollar “is our currency, but your problem”. It will always be so until a new reserve currency is chosen.
Inflating away the value of the dollar reduces the US debt accordingly but at a terrible loss in good will towards Americans.
So far there is no alternative to the USD. The Han have blown their chance and will start to recede over the next few years. Brazil is a financial joke as is India. Russia is run by a bunch of thugs akin to The Dark Country. The Euro won't be around within the next ten years.
What about it for Australia, Anglotino?
China turns to Bitcoins
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.urgente24.com/221525-china-quiere-usar-la-moneda-virtual-bitcoin-para-comprar-bienes
@28
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You live in a slum, AIDS infested and with mass shootings the life of the party. You are a joke of a society and will always laugh about it.
@29
The dollar will collapse more quickly and switfly than anything before it, PRECISELY because it is based on goodwill. There is not even remotely enough gold reserves or anything else in the US savings account to redeem a massive loss of faith in the currency, which will happen either from market forces or just political spite against the US.
Many around the world will be hurt holding worthless paper, but Americans themselves will starve, since they don't have equivalency, that is, a parallel currency market where goods are priced in the “non-dollar” currency. That will cause a systematic and complete breaking of the supply/production chain... and millions will starve since the USA has no other “reserve” currency to buy stuff from others (unlike other countries which face crisis, that can devalue their currencies relative to the reserve currency they are holding, to allow more of it to enter).
The entire “advantage” of the US having the reserve currency will turn into a mortal trap, since they won't have “currency B” to fall back on, internally AND externally.
Millions will die.
31)Whilst I agree that the principle of “Yes we spend print and go into debt as much as we like because the world economic activity depends of our currancy and our providers are expecting that they get their money's worth and because also there is no other currency to supplent it” is outright inadmissible and also stupid for the rest of us, I believe a series of other alternatives are going to gradually apear and even the US economy will go for these alternatives and abandom their Dollar over time. So yes I believe the dollar will collapse, but it doesnt mean to say its the American apocalypsis. But they will bite the dust and find themselves with tremendous debt problems
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will be an apocalypse, for them.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its been show time and time, and time and time, and TIME and TIME again: the higher they rise, the harder they fall. ALWAYS.
Those that didn't learn their lessons from 2008 are fools and willl pay accordingly.
There is no “gradual” retrentchent when you are a “reserve currency”. When people notice that big shot are really getting out, it will be a global stampede. And in today's communication's world, it will be THOUSANDS of times faster, a click of a button, compared to other past collapses.
It is inevitable, the hard, lighting-speed, “hecatombic” collapse of the dollar.
31. Bahahahaa what a ridiculous post.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me repeat, nobody cares what a slum dweller from a backward province in a 3rd world sh*thole thinks about the USA economy
The USA will continue to be the richest most powerful nation in the world until long after your grandchildren are rotting.
Your hopin and dreamin won't ever change that
Seen any riots in Mendoza yet?
Peso at 6.20 and the blue climbing back up too.
Where she goes nobody knows
I do
hyperinflation again
buy sugar and laundry detergent to trade its more valuable than your bodies.
33) You might be right
Dec 04th, 2013 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What have you personally done to ensure your savings worth?? I'm interested in your financial advice on the matter, where hace you invested??
35. Ive been telling him to buy sugar for a couple years.
Dec 05th, 2013 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's the best investment in Argentina
Although Toilet paper is a close 2nd.
#33
Dec 05th, 2013 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Never mind. Buy or borrow a bicycle and go and enjoy your countryside. Who knows, it may be a cure for your envious bile !
36) Wether TTP lives in Canada or in Argentina he will be hit by the collapse of the US dollar, so I'm interested in knowing what precautions he made to avoid these problematic circumstances ahead of time...You know gold, houses, bitcoins, silver, furniture, jewels, swiss franks, etc.
Dec 05th, 2013 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People have told me TSHTF groups are at rife in the US
The main difference between Australia and Argentina is wealth generated by mining,companies thinking about investing in Argentina are afraid of confiscation ,they invest billions in Australia because they are not,the recent mining tax hike is disliked but will be paid,showing that playing the long game pays.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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