MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falkland Islands hosts a delegation of Brazilian congress advisors
A delegation of political advisors from the Brazilian Congress is currently in the Falkland Islands. The group is accompanied by Andrew Ford First Secretary FCO Brasilia. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAnd now we wait for the Argentine copy cat routine, also known as the Timerman Manoeuvre!
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The tail is truly wagging the dog down south.
The Brazilians will find that like Britain, the Falklands is a good place to do business, unlike Argentina which has just fallen 4 places in the Global Transparency Index which is now rated down in 106th place in. Between Moldova and Gabon. Lol.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ohhh my,one can almost feel the hysterics in BA...lol..Cant wait to read Timerturds response...!!
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just a bit concerned about this. The Falklands appears to be welcoming all sorts of political “groups” but what are they getting out of it? Being “British”, the Falklands doesn't immediately announce the support of the visiting “group”. The Panamanian group visited and now Panama continues to support argieland. Who else has visited, done a bit of spying and then maintained their original position? I find it suspicious. Beware “Greeks” bearing gifts.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hearts and minds campaign, best way forward for the Islanders.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They have a sound argument, reasonable people will see that.
I’ll wager it bears more fruit than Argentina’s approach to this issue.
They came,
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They saw,
And they left with more info, than they came with,
But will they use this to be friendly and poss. trade with,
Or will they do a Panama,
Choose your partners carefully,
There are a lot of corporate spies out their…
.
Brazil.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What can one say about a country that seems not to know WTF it's doing from one day to the next and one disaster to the next?
Given Dilma's problems of late I would have thought the Falklands didn't even show on the radar.
Perhaps they were out on a jolly. We will soon see.
Cue the Argies screaming and shouting, demanding an apology from the Brazilians for daring to go to discover the truth for themselves.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0smacks of desperation from the illegal government of the malvinas. no one here in argentina is getting desperate over this trust me. most likely, the argentinean government has been notified by the brazilian authorities of this visit in advance.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hosting a group of foreign politicians is hardly desperation. Merely the Falkland Islands Government letting people outside know the truth about the Falklands. Something that the Argentine government is apparently anxious should not happen. While Cristina desperately rants to all and any forum/committee which will (or won't, for that matter) listen, and gets meaningless statements of support from neighbours which pay her lip service, the Falkland Islands continue to enjoy autonomy and self-government under the British Flag and their economy goes from strength to strength, despite all of Cristina's pathetic attempts to hinder them.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isn't it a crime to illegally enter Argentine territory without permission from Buenos Aires or at least someone to stamp the passport correctly? So many people coming and going to and from those renegade Islands as they please as if those pesky Islanders own the place. No arrests, no deportations, no extraditions...
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 don't worry, I don't think the FIG is going to let the visitors witness the awesome lethality of their Alan Parsons Project.
#9
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“”trust me.“”... From an Argentinian ? You think we are that gullible !
It really perplexes me as to why Argentina thinks the Falklands are:
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 01- A possession
2- Their possession
Proximity does not legitimize a claim to land.
They hold no deed or land grant from Spain.
If we believe that Argentina got their first, they did not exist as a country yet.
Why did Argentina not say something during the Friendship Treaty of 1840?
What did Argentina wait 100 years before making acclaim?
Britain and the current residence possessed and maintained it throughout its habitable history.
If one is to believe in self-determination, the people have made their determination.
Argentina continues to make lies through the Tinman like the recent lie that Spain and Argentina are teaming up against Britain and Spain called it a lie.
The fact of the matter is that if Argentina truly felt that they held a legitimate claim to the islands they’d be in court like they are for every other action as it relates to the debt they reneged on and the debt collectors taking their assets, i.e. the Libertad and the international Maritime Court, the US Appellate Court, The Supreme Court of the United States. They take everything to court and why not this? Let’s face it, they know they will lose and it is better not to legitimately lose then it is to rant and rave. To have the court rule against you is black and white and there is no denying you are wrong, unless there would be more avenues after the ruling and in this case there would be none. Ranting and raving like a depraved lunatic is not so black and white, in fact, doing it this way, no one can factual say they are wrong. They can claim they are wrong, they can state facts that suggest they are wrong, but no legal entity decided that they are wrong so in their mind, they still have a leg to stand on. Argentina needs to just fade away like Kirchner is doing for Argentina as a nation.
@13. do you think spain granted argentina a deed or land grant to the united provinces? lol. our ancestors fought for our independence (malvinas incl.) the fact that you lot are still happy to sing god save the queen and welcome european troops into the malvinas is an insult to history, the liberators, the argentineans, and the rest of the south american nations.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take it to the ICJ. It would give Christina another chance to gob off to the UN and go shopping in New York.
Troneas
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are just repeating tired old slogans without putting any thought into their veracity.
”our ancestors fought for our independence (malvinas incl.) ”
Yes you did. But does modern day Argentina contain Uruguay or Paraguay or Bolivia?
When you ancestors fought for independence did they fight for Patagonia which wasn't part of the the government or lands they liberated?
Just because some nations decide to fight for the independence and others are happy with the status quo does not make their decision any less valid.
The fact that Falkland Islanders are happy to remain part of the UK shows that the rights and independence that your ancestors fought for has resonated down the centuries into the right of self determination that now exists.
The existence of the Falkland Islands is not an insult to history but the result of history.
The existence of the Falkland Islands is not an insult to the liberators for they fought to liberate their countries from the Spanish and they did. They did not fight to subjugate others as they were once subjugated.
The existence of the Falkland Islands is not an insult to Argentineans anymore than Uruguayans, Paraguayans and Bolivians are an insult.
The existence of the Falkland Islands is not an insult to the rest of South American nations because they were all liberated to become their own nations and not liberated to become part of a single new one.
The fact is that modern day South American borders do not follow the borders of the Spanish Empire. It is an insult to the liberators of those nations to believe that they should have.
#14 sharpen your brain before your tongue as you missed the point. To top it off, it's been some time since royalty was the head of my state.
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers
@16. you can't compare the Malvinas to Paraguay or Bolivia. There are 3000 people on those islands probably only half of them actual natives the rest seasonal workers and immigrants - and what 1500 soldiers?
Dec 03rd, 2013 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0my neighbourhood has more people than that.
for all intents and purposes, the people in malvinas are not independent. they are british subjects.
if to you independence means being able to keep your culture, beliefs, languages and so on and so forth, you will be able to keep all that as part of Argentina.
@18
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“o you independence means being able to keep your culture, beliefs, languages and so on and so forth, you will be able to keep all that as part of Argentina.”
As for Argentinians a promise is always made to be broken, the Islanders would be treated exactly like they were in 1982-have you noticed your country never sticks to treaties or agreements? The Falkland Islanders are well aware of this.
“ you lot ” It is a strangely familiar phrase used by Malvanistas but almost no one else. Why is that?
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine....my thoughts exactly. One person and three names came to mind. Those clever catch words always bite them in the ass.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Troneas
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“you can't compare the Malvinas to Paraguay or Bolivia”
Why?
“There are 3000 people on those islands probably only half of them actual natives the rest seasonal workers and immigrants - and what 1500 soldiers?
my neighbourhood has more people than that.”
Is there a point at which certain people can attain a right or lose a right?
Because you seem to be saying that 'might is right'. So does China with 1.3 billion people have more rights than Uruguay with 3 million?
I mean there are probably whole suburbs in Beijing or Shanghai that have more people than Uruguay.
If rights are proportional to a certain measure, then Argentineans might have more rights than Australians because there are more than them. However Australians are richer per capita so perhaps we should have more rights than Argentineans. Australia is also bigger than all but 5 other countries, so should we have more rights than smaller countries by geographic size?
Indeed Guangdong is bigger than Venezuela, Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay, Uruguay, Ecuador and Chile put together. By your logic, one province obviously outweighs all the rights the people in these countries should have.
“for all intents and purposes, the people in malvinas are not independent. they are british subjects”
No one has EVER claimed that the Falklands are independent. And they happily admit that they are British subjects. However you deny them the right to independence by placing criteria against them that you would not put against your own country.
“if to you independence means being able to keep your culture, beliefs, languages and so on and so forth, you will be able to keep all that as part of Argentina”
That is patently untrue. Independence means being in control of all facets of your national identity and life. The fact is that Argentina could provide no safe guards that they would respect any ”culture, beliefs, languages and so on and so forth” were they to become part of a province within Argentina.
14 Troneas
Dec 04th, 2013 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Liberated from what? tyranny? repression?
South American history is a nightmare. After the Spanish were kicked out, largely as a result of the british destruction of the Spanish navy, the people of South America fought amongst themselves for decades. South American history is a long list of repression and military dictatorships whereby you murdered thousands of your own people. Do the South American indians feel liberated?
The Falklands are by far the oldest and most stable democracy in South America. It;s the only society which has never has a dictatorship or murdered their own people. It also has the highest standard of living in South America.
Yet ironically its the only South American society threatened with occupation and colonisation.
rupertbrooks0
Dec 04th, 2013 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very well put. The oldest and most stable democray in South America threatened by one the youngest and least stable democracies in South America.
@14 Troneas Solo hay una palabra para vos - “B - - - - O”
Dec 04th, 2013 - 07:19 am - Link - Report abuse 018 Troneas
Dec 04th, 2013 - 08:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The people of the Falkland Islands, like the people of the United Kingdom, are an island race. They are few in number but they have the right to live in peace, to choose their own way of life and to determine their own allegiance. Their way of life is British; their allegiance is to the Crown. It is the wish of the British people and the duty of Her Majesty's Government to do everything that we can to uphold that right. That will be our hope and our endeavour, and, I believe, the resolve, of every Member of this House”
Prime Minister Margeret Thatcher
House of Commons 3rd April 1982.
Yawn!
Dec 04th, 2013 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0It will all change when the oil starts pumping and massive investment starts pouring in. The Falklands won't be short of South American friends then i'm quite sure.
All Argentina will be able to do is sit back and watch, like an impotent man at a brothel!
Troneas,
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0We don't want to be part of Argentina.
And since this is our land, its our decision, not yours.
There is no more to be said.
lts the end of the matter.
Go away and try to colonise someone else.
China, perhaps. lol!
Troneas
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, the Independence movement in the Americas was not a fight against colonialism, it was colonialism. There is nothing noble about what your ancestors did, they stole a continent as Spaniards, and then, when Spain was weak decided to keep it for themselves.
They were not Gandhi or Ho Chi Minh or even Mandela fighting for independence for an indigenous people.
Secondly, your argument that the islanders can keep their culture and beliefs as part of Argentina...even if it were true (unlikely)...why the hell should they..the islands are not, never have been and should not be part of Argentina. You could equally suggest that the islanders could keep their culture and belief as part of Mongolia..its more likely and at least the Mongolians have never invaded, planted minefields, used them as a human shield and defiled their homes.
In that you agree that your ancestors stole land from a weakened Spain, and no deeds or inheritance were granted, how can you claim that the uninhabitted Falklands were automatically part of this theft?
Massive swathes of Spanish Empire in South America are not part of Argentina, massive swathes of area that were not part of the Spanish Empire are now part of Argentina.
it is clear that the Falklands had long been evacuated by Spain upon Argentine independence and that even Argentina didnt consider it an automatic succession as they later tried to claim sovereignty in 1820 and 1832.
It is clear no inheritance of a disputed Spainsh claim to ONLY East Falkland exists. Therefore the debate always comes back to 1833.
You say that 1500 people with 180 years of heritage have no sovereignty rights...but the Argentine claim is based on 50 people who were evicted in 1833 whod been there for 60 days.
1500 for 180 years
50 for 60 days
Which is stronger?
@29:
Dec 04th, 2013 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“1500 for 180 years
50 for 60 days
Which is stronger?”
Very well put.......
The Brazilians come with open minds to listen and to learn. That can only be good.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I love reading the level of indoctrination surrounding independence wars in the Americas. troneas is the latest in a long line of folk who believe the various Wars of independence were noble campaigns against colonialist rule.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is hilarious.
Had Louis Mountbatten said to Gandhi in 1945, “Listen Mahatma, this independence thing is all very well, but what we aBritish are going to do is stay, call ourselves ”Indian“ and massacre a sufficient number of you until we are a majority...but you wont be run by London anymore”...doesn't sound particularly heroic to me.
The colonialists in South America weren't the Spanish in Spain, they were the Spanish in Argentina...the very people who “declared indepndence” and started calling themselves “Argentine” and blaming the Spanish in Spain for the colonialism...its hilarious.
So, given that the Spanish in South America declared independence, on the basis that they could determine their own futures, they should respect that EXACT SAME right for other colonialists in other places.
As Troneas agrees, there is no inheritance document, no passing of sovereignty, no other reason as to why Argentinas borders were what they were in 1814,1832, 1880, 2013 than SELF DETERMINATION.
Uruguayans fought to be Uruguayans, Argentinians fought to be Argentine, Chileans fought to be Chileans.
Falkland Islanders fought to be a British Overseas Territory.
Rather than an insult to South America, the Falklands are a product of colonialism, just like the rest of South America...the difference being that no indigenous population was slaughtered to make way for them.
If their is an insult, it is by Argentina, in calling the Falkland Islanders squatters and pirates, the Argentines are further insulting the Amerindians in Argentina (the remaining ones that werent slaughtered by their genocide)...who are the only ones who would have a just claim in feeling that their are European squatters and pirates on their land.
@GALlamosa
Dec 04th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nicely put.
@rupertbrooksso
Nice contributions.
Such visits can only benefit the Falklands. Ok, so Brazil sides with the Argentine claim but it has not had to do anything to show true commitment. Only recently Dilma hosted Cameron and his crew...hardly the actions of a country oozing with a mindless malvinista mindset.
Troneas (#)...LMAO...just another uneducated loud mouthed Argie..Same ol shit...Just opens his gob and lets the wind blow his tongue around....Just gotta laugh at him...!
Dec 04th, 2013 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like Troneas as run a mile truth really does hurt I guess.
Dec 04th, 2013 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@31
Dec 04th, 2013 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the Brazilians are coming with closed minds and with no good will towards the Falkland Islanders. My guess is that it is purely a fact finding visit, nothing more. The Falkland Islanders will be polite and gracious hosts as they always are, but they need to keep their guard up and I would personally be inclined to bug their rooms.
@14 Troneas
Dec 04th, 2013 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“do you think spain granted argentina a deed or land grant to the united provinces? lol. our ancestors fought for our independence”
So you admit you did not inherit anything from Spain.
Least of all the Malvinas, the Spanish occupation of which was in fact run from Montevideo.
By “independence” I assume you mean free to conquer the rest of S. America for yourselves, despatching the natives as you encountered them.
The insult here, is to the intelligence of anyone who you expect to believe the rubbish you post.
31 GALlamosa
Dec 04th, 2013 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fair comment. lets hope they do come with an open mind. Half the Brazilian navy was built by Britain. Indeed I work in a building opposite the Brazilian Naval Commission In Europe; located in Putney, of all places. Just down the road from the Star and Garter Hotel on Putney Embankment, the traditional starting line of the Oxford and Cambridge boat race.
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